As another old school guy who went through Apple's transition from Motorola to PowerPC, to Intel to now Apple Silicon...you are totally on point. I HATE re-buying the same stuff (software) over and over again to just maintain the functionality I already have. (I hate subscription models too..) Treat your room, buy good mics, buy good outboard, buy good monitors, buy good instruments. A lot of really solid gear is totally un-sexy, and the functionality hasn't changed in years. Buy good solid stuff once (and cry once at the cost), and stop chasing unicorns. Two great vids in a row! Keep it up! 👍
I'm so glad I found this video! I also have a C24 on PT11HD Native on a customised HP Z400, and I have no plans to change/upgrade it - it's reliable! I too hark from earlier times as a freelance engineer during the 1980s, loving the huge Neve desks for orchestral stuff, and SSLs, and Studer A80s and A800s, and the glorious analog outboard gear. I still marvel that my current setup has so few limitations compared to the old days, and after discovering the somewhat sterile capabilities of Pro Tools, the C24 brought back the tactile joy of 'riding the faders'! Nowadays my studio mostly makes soundtracks for AI movies, which are edited on Davinci Resolve on a Mac Studio M2 Max - I really enjoy having a foot in both time zones, so-to-speak - a DAW and control surface expression of the 'good old days' of recording and mixing, as well as cutting-edge AI graphics and NLE video-making. I just wish my stack of old 2-track and 24-track tapes took up less space, and I had more time to digitise them!
I read a great article about some people who run studios based around classic Macs, i.e. the stuff from the 90's. Sure, they probably won't record a Grammy winning album there, but it is more than enough for recording some things, and that is what truly matters. It's not the tools, but the creativity they inspire.
Love your video. Just wanted to add that Avid has not integrated protools with Avid video software at all. I butt heads with it on a daily basis. They have done virtually nothing to integrate the two. You can't even take an AAF from Avid, make a few volume automation tweaks in Protools and send it back. You have to send a file with the audio automation burned into the audio. It's terrible. If I didn't have to constantly upgrade my mac and protools to stay compatible with film mixing studios. I would be fine with protools 2019 and OS Mojave. Upgrading is a total nightmare and a massive time suck. Losing useful plugins that become obsolete is really maddening.
Great video and again, very useful for everyone who's getting started in pro-audio.. and not just them. Btw, i didn't know A Murder Of Crows was the most succesful DST album, i like them all 😊. Thank you for sharing these experiences with us!
I needed this video waybach when 8 came out 8.5 I actually came in at 7 and had to upgrade for free I'm now currently running pro tools 2023 and you are a lucky engineer if it's not broke no need to fix upgrade your pro tools rig is awesome 😎
Same here. And with the subscription stuff, specially now that Waves announced their plugins are going to be subscription based, I invest money mostly on hardware.
I am in the same boat as you, but my concern is when my old MacPro tower gives out. I had the TDM system and drank the Kool aide and went to HDX AAX. The upgrade gave me nothing but great expense and the need to upgrade all of my plugins. I was falsely under the impression that I needed to "keep up." When I hit PT 11 I finally started waking up. When Avid went to the subscription I felt totally betrayed by AVID/PT. I took my computer offline and stopped upgrading. My system is rock solid. OFFLINE, OFFLINE, OFFLINE is critical. I found that my Mac was trying to do automatic upgrades in the background.
Hell yeah, you think just like me, man I'm stuck on ProTools eight but you know what I've been able to invest all my money into great microphones and great fucking preamps and let me tell you something great preamps and obviously microphones to make a difference. Every year we have a couple of features that I want, but you know what I'll live without them. If I have to as long as I can, my computer and combination with my interface and software is a combination that cannot get voca-lign which happens to be my favorite plug-in ever but you know what I'm doing mostly metal and I'm gonna have to live with it for a bit. In the end, though I can record a solid 40 tracks which is way more than what I need and I don't need to plug and unplug things just because of the fact that I reinvested in another 192 system the other day, lol I do want to eventually get to at least ProTools 10 in order to do so, I will need to upgrade my computer my software, but at least I don't have to upgrade the interface. In the end, my Old School system is better than most peoples modern systems..
Amen brother 100% my friend has a pro tools rig and he invested heavily to get everything he needed to be cutting edge and he was very proud of his studio and then…. He updated his operating system and just like that most of the things he bought with hard earned money wouldn’t communicate with his computer 🖥️ and he lost clients and future business as he struggled to get up and running again and I feel they could’ve allowed the the new OS to communicate with the current products but they know people will do what they must to be associated with the industry standard and basically hijacked his studio and held it for ransom
I purchased a Pro Tools rig many years ago and it was a disaster. I sold it after a year at a loss but it was a good lesson. That said - as somebody doing everything in the box - software has released me from the dictates of the analog world, no hums, no break downs, everything on recall should I need it, no set up times etc. if I want great sounding congas - and all sorts of different sounding congas - they’re there at my fingertips in minutes, no worrying about setting up microphones etc. The only thing I care about in the analog world is a decent interface, good speakers and headphones, preamp and great sounding microphones. My RME interface has served me incredibly well for years now. Nobody need Pro Tools but that doesn’t mean you need to turn your back on the digital world. I can buy a really powerful computer that costs a fraction of what computers used to cost and it lasts for years.
There are convolutions (sampling) of hardware these days that are very good and the 24bit recording rigs that are make a good argument of going in the box for recording for me. But I often wonder which path is better (if either). Despite the sound quality, I definitely lack the very integrated feel of faders and turning knobs when mixing, but I've been meaning to get a controller surface for long.
i just got my first exposure to some of your videos. very insightfull. i own s1, reaper, recently got cubase, and have a current pro tools sub. i know right stick with one and learn it lol. reaper is awesome but im ot 53 and not super computer literate so sometimes reaper can be a bit daunting. thiers absolutely nothing it cant do tho. s1 is cool, similar to pro tools in a lot of ways. cubase has had a bit of a learning curve but im gonna stick with it. i do mostly real audio. some ez drummer amp sims maybe some pads in the backround. but the feature set that cubase comes with is really pretty awesome. for some stupid reason i have this fetish to have to use pro tools or not be taken seriously. i dont have any issues with pro tools its been fine working and mixing in it. the recent news of a possible avid sale has pushed me more towards leaving it. my sub is up for renewal in july, and yes the nashville crowd is all about compatability and so forth. is transfering stems instead of a pt session really that big of a deal ?? this avid sale thing womt really hurt me at all but it will be very interesting to see how it plays out in the future. and im just not sure how impotant the audio side is anymore with avid. even they have admitted that most of the work they do to pro tools is based on post production users. like i said it could be interesting to see how this plays out.
Hi John, Firstly, Cubase is easily as "serious" as Pro Tools if not better in some ways right out of the box. I am personally really resistant to the whole subscription idea. Pro mTools recently taking that hard turn really gives me thoughts on a new video. As for sending out stems... I have been taking consolidated tracks forever and putting them into Pro Tools and if you do it right, it's no problem at all. Here are a few pointers. Mind you stems are different from consolidated tracks in that stems are usually sum-mixed stereo files and consolidated tracks are still track-for-track bounces (which simply conjoin separated regions or clips into continuous files. They need to all start at bar 0 (or 1), and it's good that they all end together as well. Name your tracks for each instrument beginning with a two-digit number ascending 01 Kick, 02 Snare 03 hihat and soforth. That way they will import in that same order. Otherwise they will import alphabetically. Keep mono files mono, and stereo files stereo. Consider printing stems of your effects returns, but keep the audio tracks unprocessed (unless you did something very important you'd like to preserve) The only thing you will loose is all your plug-ins that are running. So be sure to bounce any virtual instruments down to Audio as well. Good Luck!
Man...I would love to chat with you in person. I have an opportunity to buy a D command at an AMAZING price. After years in the industry, I have been on a hyadous since 2011. Not a musician, but an engineer. Love your explanation.
@@devon-graves-studio-D I believe I will. I too am not really worried about having the "newest" best thing.... But to get the D Command with 24 faders, the Mac tower and all I/O modules for less than 2k running PT8 is kind of a no brainier. I love the D Command due to the EQ and Dynamics section. Sad that Avid is no longer supporting these "Ultra Controllers" anymore. Lots of people spent a lot of money on these back in the not so distant future just to be kicked to the curb.
What I don't get is why they don't create a EUCON localized server software where they create a profile for the digidesign stuff. That way, they don't have to deal with maintaining controller support within protools itself. The C|24 is still a very lovely console. At least the controller part of it. I wished that they made a EUCON variant of it. I love the layout and the S4 is way too expensive to be the successor.
Yeah, the analog part of the C/24 is a waste of space. I would way rather have a second row of encoders than the mic and line preamps that just gather dust. I don't even use the monitoring section though the 5.1 is cool. I never used that. I think the C3 (at half the price of the C/24) is more like the successor for the C/24. Lovely little console, but I like 24 channels. I love how the mix window is literally brought into physical form with the C/24. In conforming to DAWs outside of Pro Tools, that form factor is more homogenous. But if I had that one, I'm sure I wouldn't complain. What I don't get is, we are talking about buttons and faders. If my little Mackie Control can be supported, why would it be so hard to keep those big controllers on line. Your suggestion shows you know more about that kinda stuff than I do.
I always want to have TDM HD Pro Tools, but never know what parts to buy and how HD Pro Tools is protected. With LE all you needed was serial number and DD interface. Any help appreciated.
For an HD system with PT 8, you need DD io like I mentioned. The software licence should be delivered on a iLok. If you use PT 9 or 10, you can use any interface, but since they go into the USB instead of the HD card, I can't guarantee the zero latency thing. Watch this video and you will learn all you need to know. ruclips.net/video/KqmAZhXCiUQ/видео.html Just be sure to find an iLok licence first otherwise everything else will be for not.
Owning is king , operating off line is going to end up being the long lasting winner!! THEY CAN NOT SHUT US DOWN !! AI IS GOING TO DESTROY ALL THESE NEW SYSTEMS !!! THOSE WHO HOLD OUT AND DO NOT SHED THEIR EQUIPMENT WILL BE THE ONES LEFT ABLE TO TRULY RECORD!!!!
software and plugins aren't worthwile investment, it's better to use legally free options, and those which don't cutoff paying customers or mess subscriptions
Видеоклипы
As another old school guy who went through Apple's transition from Motorola to PowerPC, to Intel to now Apple Silicon...you are totally on point. I HATE re-buying the same stuff (software) over and over again to just maintain the functionality I already have. (I hate subscription models too..) Treat your room, buy good mics, buy good outboard, buy good monitors, buy good instruments. A lot of really solid gear is totally un-sexy, and the functionality hasn't changed in years. Buy good solid stuff once (and cry once at the cost), and stop chasing unicorns. Two great vids in a row! Keep it up! 👍
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Man I really like this channel thanks so much for sharing Devon
Thanks man! I caught your last message which prompted me to check your channel out. Liked, subscribed!
I'm so glad I found this video! I also have a C24 on PT11HD Native on a customised HP Z400, and I have no plans to change/upgrade it - it's reliable! I too hark from earlier times as a freelance engineer during the 1980s, loving the huge Neve desks for orchestral stuff, and SSLs, and Studer A80s and A800s, and the glorious analog outboard gear. I still marvel that my current setup has so few limitations compared to the old days, and after discovering the somewhat sterile capabilities of Pro Tools, the C24 brought back the tactile joy of 'riding the faders'! Nowadays my studio mostly makes soundtracks for AI movies, which are edited on Davinci Resolve on a Mac Studio M2 Max - I really enjoy having a foot in both time zones, so-to-speak - a DAW and control surface expression of the 'good old days' of recording and mixing, as well as cutting-edge AI graphics and NLE video-making. I just wish my stack of old 2-track and 24-track tapes took up less space, and I had more time to digitise them!
Awesome reply! Thanks so much for your comment. I am happy to know I am not alone in my thinking. I feel your joy my friend!
Wow! I never thought I could be so interested in all these studio recording details. You're a great storyteller!
I read a great article about some people who run studios based around classic Macs, i.e. the stuff from the 90's. Sure, they probably won't record a Grammy winning album there, but it is more than enough for recording some things, and that is what truly matters. It's not the tools, but the creativity they inspire.
Love your video. Just wanted to add that Avid has not integrated protools with Avid video software at all. I butt heads with it on a daily basis. They have done virtually nothing to integrate the two. You can't even take an AAF from Avid, make a few volume automation tweaks in Protools and send it back. You have to send a file with the audio automation burned into the audio. It's terrible. If I didn't have to constantly upgrade my mac and protools to stay compatible with film mixing studios. I would be fine with protools 2019 and OS Mojave. Upgrading is a total nightmare and a massive time suck. Losing useful plugins that become obsolete is really maddening.
Your approach is the best approach
Great video and again, very useful for everyone who's getting started in pro-audio.. and not just them. Btw, i didn't know A Murder Of Crows was the most succesful DST album, i like them all 😊. Thank you for sharing these experiences with us!
Thank you for writing! Yeah, A Murder of Crows was my best selling album with DST.
I needed this video waybach when 8 came out 8.5 I actually came in at 7 and had to upgrade for free I'm now currently running pro tools 2023 and you are a lucky engineer if it's not broke no need to fix upgrade your pro tools rig is awesome 😎
i can say , having been on the ride , the new symphony io w ultimate works .. all in @30k , good 2 go
Same here. And with the subscription stuff, specially now that Waves announced their plugins are going to be subscription based, I invest money mostly on hardware.
I am in the same boat as you, but my concern is when my old MacPro tower gives out. I had the TDM system and drank the Kool aide and went to HDX AAX. The upgrade gave me nothing but great expense and the need to upgrade all of my plugins. I was falsely under the impression that I needed to "keep up." When I hit PT 11 I finally started waking up. When Avid went to the subscription I felt totally betrayed by AVID/PT. I took my computer offline and stopped upgrading. My system is rock solid. OFFLINE, OFFLINE, OFFLINE is critical. I found that my Mac was trying to do automatic upgrades in the background.
Great video!!! Thanks for sharing your experience.
Hell yeah, you think just like me, man I'm stuck on ProTools eight but you know what I've been able to invest all my money into great microphones and great fucking preamps and let me tell you something great preamps and obviously microphones to make a difference. Every year we have a couple of features that I want, but you know what I'll live without them. If I have to as long as I can, my computer and combination with my interface and software is a combination that cannot get voca-lign which happens to be my favorite plug-in ever but you know what I'm doing mostly metal and I'm gonna have to live with it for a bit. In the end, though I can record a solid 40 tracks which is way more than what I need and I don't need to plug and unplug things just because of the fact that I reinvested in another 192 system the other day, lol I do want to eventually get to at least ProTools 10 in order to do so, I will need to upgrade my computer my software, but at least I don't have to upgrade the interface. In the end, my Old School system is better than most peoples modern systems..
Amen brother 100% my friend has a pro tools rig and he invested heavily to get everything he needed to be cutting edge and he was very proud of his studio and then….
He updated his operating system and just like that most of the things he bought with hard earned money wouldn’t communicate with his computer 🖥️ and he lost clients and future business as he struggled to get up and running again and I feel they could’ve allowed the the new OS to communicate with the current products but they know people will do what they must to be associated with the industry standard and basically hijacked his studio and held it for ransom
That's a serious bummer!
control 24 can work with v control neyrinck
I purchased a Pro Tools rig many years ago and it was a disaster. I sold it after a year at a loss but it was a good lesson.
That said - as somebody doing everything in the box - software has released me from the dictates of the analog world, no hums, no break downs, everything on recall should I need it, no set up times etc. if I want great sounding congas - and all sorts of different sounding congas - they’re there at my fingertips in minutes, no worrying about setting up microphones etc. The only thing I care about in the analog world is a decent interface, good speakers and headphones, preamp and great sounding microphones. My RME interface has served me incredibly well for years now. Nobody need Pro Tools but that doesn’t mean you need to turn your back on the digital world. I can buy a really powerful computer that costs a fraction of what computers used to cost and it lasts for years.
100%!
There are convolutions (sampling) of hardware these days that are very good and the 24bit recording rigs that are make a good argument of going in the box for recording for me. But I often wonder which path is better (if either). Despite the sound quality, I definitely lack the very integrated feel of faders and turning knobs when mixing, but I've been meaning to get a controller surface for long.
i just got my first exposure to some of your videos. very insightfull. i own s1, reaper, recently got cubase, and have a current pro tools sub. i know right stick with one and learn it lol. reaper is awesome but im ot 53 and not super computer literate so sometimes reaper can be a bit daunting. thiers absolutely nothing it cant do tho. s1 is cool, similar to pro tools in a lot of ways. cubase has had a bit of a learning curve but im gonna stick with it. i do mostly real audio. some ez drummer amp sims maybe some pads in the backround. but the feature set that cubase comes with is really pretty awesome. for some stupid reason i have this fetish to have to use pro tools or not be taken seriously. i dont have any issues with pro tools its been fine working and mixing in it. the recent news of a possible avid sale has pushed me more towards leaving it. my sub is up for renewal in july, and yes the nashville crowd is all about compatability and so forth. is transfering stems instead of a pt session really that big of a deal ?? this avid sale thing womt really hurt me at all but it will be very interesting to see how it plays out in the future. and im just not sure how impotant the audio side is anymore with avid. even they have admitted that most of the work they do to pro tools is based on post production users. like i said it could be interesting to see how this plays out.
Hi John, Firstly, Cubase is easily as "serious" as Pro Tools if not better in some ways right out of the box. I am personally really resistant to the whole subscription idea. Pro mTools recently taking that hard turn really gives me thoughts on a new video. As for sending out stems... I have been taking consolidated tracks forever and putting them into Pro Tools and if you do it right, it's no problem at all. Here are a few pointers. Mind you stems are different from consolidated tracks in that stems are usually sum-mixed stereo files and consolidated tracks are still track-for-track bounces (which simply conjoin separated regions or clips into continuous files. They need to all start at bar 0 (or 1), and it's good that they all end together as well. Name your tracks for each instrument beginning with a two-digit number ascending 01 Kick, 02 Snare 03 hihat and soforth. That way they will import in that same order. Otherwise they will import alphabetically. Keep mono files mono, and stereo files stereo. Consider printing stems of your effects returns, but keep the audio tracks unprocessed (unless you did something very important you'd like to preserve)
The only thing you will loose is all your plug-ins that are running. So be sure to bounce any virtual instruments down to Audio as well. Good Luck!
Im of the opinion that any device you have will never be better than with the stock OS/software version it came with.
Man...I would love to chat with you in person. I have an opportunity to buy a D command at an AMAZING price. After years in the industry, I have been on a hyadous since 2011. Not a musician, but an engineer. Love your explanation.
I really wanted the D Command. I love the eq and compression controls. If your system will support it, I'd go for it.
@@devon-graves-studio-D I believe I will. I too am not really worried about having the "newest" best thing.... But to get the D Command with 24 faders, the Mac tower and all I/O modules for less than 2k running PT8 is kind of a no brainier. I love the D Command due to the EQ and Dynamics section. Sad that Avid is no longer supporting these "Ultra Controllers" anymore. Lots of people spent a lot of money on these back in the not so distant future just to be kicked to the curb.
Are they going out of business ? I'd get my files off tools into a format that has solid legs underneath it ! Good luck withe old Tools !
You were better off with the tape machine, rather than the ADAT's.
What I don't get is why they don't create a EUCON localized server software where they create a profile for the digidesign stuff.
That way, they don't have to deal with maintaining controller support within protools itself.
The C|24 is still a very lovely console. At least the controller part of it. I wished that they made a EUCON variant of it. I love the layout and the S4 is way too expensive to be the successor.
Yeah, the analog part of the C/24 is a waste of space. I would way rather have a second row of encoders than the mic and line preamps that just gather dust. I don't even use the monitoring section though the 5.1 is cool. I never used that. I think the C3 (at half the price of the C/24) is more like the successor for the C/24. Lovely little console, but I like 24 channels. I love how the mix window is literally brought into physical form with the C/24. In conforming to DAWs outside of Pro Tools, that form factor is more homogenous. But if I had that one, I'm sure I wouldn't complain. What I don't get is, we are talking about buttons and faders. If my little Mackie Control can be supported, why would it be so hard to keep those big controllers on line. Your suggestion shows you know more about that kinda stuff than I do.
I always want to have TDM HD Pro Tools, but never know what parts to buy and how HD Pro Tools is protected. With LE all you needed was serial number and DD interface. Any help appreciated.
For an HD system with PT 8, you need DD io like I mentioned. The software licence should be delivered on a iLok. If you use PT 9 or 10, you can use any interface, but since they go into the USB instead of the HD card, I can't guarantee the zero latency thing. Watch this video and you will learn all you need to know. ruclips.net/video/KqmAZhXCiUQ/видео.html Just be sure to find an iLok licence first otherwise everything else will be for not.
Owning is king , operating off line is going to end up being the long lasting winner!! THEY CAN NOT SHUT US DOWN !! AI IS GOING TO DESTROY ALL THESE NEW SYSTEMS !!! THOSE WHO HOLD OUT AND DO NOT SHED THEIR EQUIPMENT WILL BE THE ONES LEFT ABLE TO TRULY RECORD!!!!
software and plugins aren't worthwile investment, it's better to use legally free options, and those which don't cutoff paying customers or mess subscriptions
hhh
I’m still running logic 9 on a 2008 macpro with all the free vsts…
£3000 we’ll spent..
I might upgrade in 2035 to a 2025 Mac 😂