I'm considered an attractive woman but because of all the horrible sexual things I've been through, I literally have 0 interest in sex, especially with another person. Men constantly try to be with me and I tell them you wouldn't want me I have 0 interest in sex. They never believe me and swear up and down they will be the ones to change me It makes me sick to my stomach to even think of it.
@@paulad.4578 we will never know. She's certainly traumatized but would she have always been ace we can't know because we can't go backwards 😢 however if she gets treatment and finds that her feelings start to change I guess she'll have an idea.
I went to a non Jewish school and at the age of 7 was bullied into playing a greek gdess in a play, because i wouldn't my headmaster made me swim 100 lengths to get a badge with the whole class watching and made everyone stay behind late watching me struggle and just before i could finish the last length he told me to get out of the pool and i wouldn't get the badge! As a child who grew up without a mother I would have traded places in a second! This is such propaganda and women of certain persuasion always cause problems for everyone else who doesn't lay down a red carpet for them! Just because she didn't like it now everyone must dislike it? You will find people in every school who were unhappy with the environment! To start a witch hunt and become a victim thereby assuming everyone else is is very self absorbed.
One of the things I didn't talk about in this interview is the way still-frum people would descend on social media anytime a formerly-frum person or group of people started talking to insult, sneer, yell, and generally bully them in the hopes of shutting them up. This comment section, and the ramp up I've seen as Shelise has been releasing more Orthodox stories, is right on point for how the frum community responds. We will not shut up, no matter what you try to do to us.
And...does it help if you don't shut up? Are you any better off screaming from the rooftops? All it shows is "your" own inability to conform to the standards set by Torah law and hundreds of generations of our mesorah It speaks to YOUR WEAKNESS, NOT THE COMMUNITY' S..because the rest of us easily adapt and respect and HAVE PRIDE in what you obviously Cannot HANDLE!! Your rebelliousness is YOUR FLAW and WEAKNESS and not the other way around!
Your life path is totally biblical and accurate, bc anyone who questioned group-think in biblical times suffered. I think you’re amazing and I’m proud to have been able to listen to you ❤️🔥
@SukiSays23 oooh I have thoughts on this! I recently reviewed a book called Heretic: The Many Lives and Deaths of Jesus Christ, by Catherine Nixey. It's a great, very readable book showing really clearly that the past was way more tolerant than we tend to think today. It's being released January 3, well worth a read. Good belated Christmas/Hanukkah gift too!!
@@dainybernstein4751i think alot of Orthodox people here are just trying to say that you're experience doesn't reflect everyone. I know many Orthodox people who are kind and accepting. I don't you can take an entire group of people and chalk them, or try to predict their personalities. Especially now the Jewish people need to treat everyone well.
Trauma masquerade as many things, the more we talk about it the more people are able to connect dots and achieve the goal of healing. Thank you for being brave to talk about it all.
Wow, what an amazing interview! Danny, you are articulate, brave and a person of great integrity and intellectual honesty. I wish you joy and peace in your life.
My grandparents left Borough Park when my grandmother became pregnant with my aunt. I was eventually born and while I love being Jewish, I was not raised religious. Dainy, you are very well spoken, and I appreciate you.
While I don’t want to invalidate this guest's experience, I have to say that mine is similar yet so different. I graduated from the same school as Dainy, at around the same time. I am also an intellectual who got a Bachelors and Masters Degree from two secular private colleges, and I constantly enroll in continuing education classes which stimulate me intellectually. I have a demanding job in which I use my training and experience to make good money doing what I love. I am also an Ultra Orthodox Jewish wife and mother, and I am fulfilled in that aspect of my life as well. Like Dainy, I "rebelled" by listening to secular music like Kelly Clarkson and Selena Gomez (although I renamed them on my mp3 player so no one would know.) I think the thing that separated our experiences, however, was getting answers to my questions, being encouraged to think critically, and being lauded for my intellectual curiousity. I was never told to "just believe," but was given deep and intellectually coherent reaponses to my questions. I wish Dainy the best and I hope that her life is happy and fullfilling... ❤
The laws against being secluded with a man are very sensible. It protects women and girls from rape or molestation. And it protects men from false accusations. VP Pence was mocked as a religious fanatic for never being alone with a woman. But he was never the victim of false accusations like many other politicians.
What a wonderful storyteller & truth teller you are. Thank you for your willingness to be so vulnerable & share your experience, strength, & hope. You’re simply amazing!!!
Dainy your openness is amazing. As a teacher your experiences in the educational system are both enlightening and disheartening. As vouchers and charters are growing I worry more kids will end up at very strict schools. I hope to always be a teacher that welcomes questions.
I agree. It’s a very real problem in this country, and is only going to get worse with the next presidency. Add to that the poorly regulated religious based homeschooling across many religions/sects, and we are going to have even more indoctrinated and insufficiently educated adults.
Thank you for such an insightful interview! as an orthodox myself (but not from the us and not the same culture) i agree that so many things need to be thrown out the window and exposed so it doesnt continue to the next generation ! especially this trend of tightening the laws year after year for no reason and with no halachic basis. thank you for speaking out I do have two small points to add if i may. one especially because it is a recurring theme in these videos : the laws of tsnius, how women should cover themselves. The main issue in this area is that we are not taught the why how what of it, we are just taught cover ourselves. But it has nothing to do with sexuality, or that women will be guilty if something happen. There are two sides to the tsnius rules: one specifically for women that they should not act like prostitutes (the talmud words not mine), and that includes everything even above clothing, behavior etc. The second part affects both men and women, and that is something people don't know or tend to forget. both men and women are obligated to cover their knees and elbows and clavicule etc. (Side note covering elbows is actually controversial, it has more to do with covering the armpits and of course people went overboard) Chassidish boys are not allowed to wear shorts after three as well. You will almost never see a rabbi or any orthodox man with shorts or short sleeves. obviously we put em emphasis on women because a) theyre an easier target b) there are more type of clothing and trends with women Second subject is yichud, being alone with the opposite gender. Dainy explained it beautifully but made it seem as though it was a sick idea because who thinks of sexuality with a 3 yo girl or 9 yo boy. these laws are in place to protect the people, not to say " 3 yo girls are sexual beings". Im sure there are plenty of women in the world who would have loved to have these rules in places when they were abused by their stepdad or uncle or anyone. In judaism it is crucial to remember that whilst the way orthodox judaism is being taught nowadays is crooked and misinterpreted and frankly mysogynist, the original laws of the torah were there to protect people. unfortunately we are not being taught in a manner that would enable us to see that.
Thank you for your comment. You make some excellent points. Based on the academic reading I've done in the field of religious studies, though, I would disagree that the laws of the Talmud were put in place to protect us. The idea of protection in the way we think of it now was not the same at the beginning of the first millennium when these laws were written down. We may choose to interpret and apply them that way, and kol hakavod if that's how you and your community see them (I mean that sincerely, I know it can sound sarcastic in text but I'm being genuine).
I spent more than six months in a religious (dati leumi) kibbutz in Israel. It got hot in the summer. All the men had short sleeves; many men had short pants. In fact, wearing a tiny kipa sruga, short sleeves, short pants, and sandals was the iconic summer dress for these Orthodox male kibbutzniks. Realize that Orthodox Judaism is quite diverse; not everyone is Haredi.
@@dainybernstein4751 Hi. Please share the academic sources that demonstrate what you just said, as well as that three-year-olds have agency, as you indicated in your interview. Isn't the three-year-olds yichud prohibition about an adult's responsibility towards the three-year-old (to not put the three-year-old in a vulnerable situation) rather than an obligation that the three-year-old has independently (agency)? Please see Maimonides, Mishneh Torah Issurei Biah, Chapter Twenty-Two.
@DS316316 if anything I said hinted at a 3yr old having the ability to consent, I apologize. Of course a 3yr old doesn't have the ability to consent. A 3yr old does have agency, but not informed agency in this context, and a 3yr old is never at fault for their own abuse. As to the sources, I'm afraid finding an exact source for the exact detail I mentioned would require me to sort through bibliographies which I don't have access to at the moment. Any good survey of the history of religion will say something to that effect, though. Ask your local librarian for books with titles like "Introduction to Religious Studies" and focus on the chapters talking about origins and historical developments of religion. For specifically Jewish/Haredi contexts, check out a book I've recommended several times in this comment section, Marc B. Shapiro's *Changing the Immutable: How Orthodox Judaism Rewrites Its History.* For a recent study on the Talmud, try *Tradition and the Formation of the Talmud* by Moulie Vidas (2014) or pretty much anything by Daniel Boyarin.
I love the way that this is becoming a platform for off-the-derech frum girls! The divergence between Modern Orthodox and Black Hat Frum has been hugely significant in my lifetime, and one reason is because education and educational voices have been restricted to Yeshivish/Chassidic people; and it's important to have different approaches to education. Which we don't have outside massive population centres in the Anglosphere, and in Israel.
Sweetheart. My heart breaks hearing this. So much pain. I am a modern Orthodox Jew and I just want you to know what you went through was HORRIFIC. I am the youngest of 10 and I understand some of what you speak of. Sending so much love and strength.
I love seeing comments like this. Understanding it was their experience and that both yours and theirs can co-exist. You validate, listen and empathize. Thank you ❤️
I so very much agree that the whole orthodox section of Judaism has become ultra ultra ultra orthodox The difference even between now and ten years ago is astounding! Nothing is tzanua enough, everything is assur! Why do you think that is?
A whole variety of reasons. A couple of reading recommendations if you're interested: - Sliding to the Right: The Contest for the Future of American Jewish Orthodoxy, by Samuel Heilman - Strictly Kosher Reading: Popular Literature and the Condition of Contemporary Orthodoxy, by Yoel Finkelman - Changing the Immutable: How Orthodox Judaism Rewrites Its History, by Marc B. Shapiro - and a little self-plug, my dissertation titled "Reading the World: American Haredi Children's Literature, 1980-2000"
It's very frustrating when one person's experience is so widely accepted as general. Not only is every community so different in their customs, every family has such different dynamics, and then each individual reacts to their circumstances with their own nature. I applaud her bravery for being vulnerable and appreciate that she did try to remind everyone that it was her own story. EVERYONE has their own story.
Many beliefs and laws fall upon the foundation of "objective truths," like God is real, and women should be subservient to a man... When you are forced to base your reasoning upon these beliefs, much of it is justification rather than critical thinking. The ultra orthodox communities are typically taught not to question what they have been taught in terms of values and follow blindly based on the teachings of their rebbe. But at the heart of it, "critical thinking" is vague in description. There isn't a set of guidelines to determine whether someone is a critical thinker. It's subjective at its core.
One might not want others to say this, but there was a literal article in a frum magazine a few years explicitly stating that critical thinking is not a goal of frum education and should not be. Shivim panim le-Torah, after all!
@dainybernstein4751 I would say that critical thinking is encouraged and prized, except when it becomes self-critical of the haredi society and thereby menacing.
Definition of critical thinkin by Oxford Dictionary: objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgement. Hard to practice when the source you start from, i.e The Torah, is by definition true and unchangeable. You very rapidly risk to be labeled an heretic or you can only practice sophisms. .
I'm a black woman, christian, Brought up very strict. If I had ever been labeled 'at risk' I would have fallen into a depression. I was close to it anyway, as I never felt trusted, no matter how I conformed. BTW I grew up in the 50's and am now 76 yrs old.
Thanks for the podcast and kudos to you for having the courage to share. Sorry to hear what happened to you. It's very sad. One of the problems is that instead of teaching that one should respect each other and respect the privacy of the other party, they teach that anyone who ejaculates in vain will go to hell and they teach to fear women. When I was religious, I had a rabbi who was so afraid of women that he wouldn't let a woman talk to him because he was afraid to look at her. In the end it will be okay, I hope for a better, freer world if we respect each other. Thanks again
All the best to you Dainy! My parents were raised orthodox but joined a conservative temple when they married. My father who davened before going to work said he wanted to attend services as a family and sit together.
Funny story about the kosher thing...I'm not even Jewish but in my family we preferred kosher hot dogs because who the heck knows what's in the other ones?? In the Northeast people knew what that meant. Then I moved to Arkansas and asked in a movie theater if the hot dogs were kosher and they looked at me like I had grown another head, like, what the heck is that??
There was an interesting case where townpeople were coming down with this weird sickness. Turns out, the local meat processing plant had switched to a non-kosher method of butchering. The hormone glands left in the processed cows were what was making people ill. I certainly prefer Kosher meats after hearing that.
I grew up in the northeast too. I Prefer kosher stuff too. Sometimes I even just naturally eat in a kosher way. (but i still love bacon on a sandwich etc)
Another amazing interview! I found this channel a few months ago and I'm watching both the new and the older interviews and I'm learning so much. I would love to see interviews with survivors of the "Troubled Teens" schools as well, if that's somethnig that interests you. I know they are not religions, but they are definitely culty environments.
30:18. Girl, I know EXACTLY what you are saying. It's sad. You grow up afraid to talk and get to know people for fear of rejection because at home you are constantly put down for being yourself.
Never give up, there's no good deed that goes to waste. Hashem loves you no matter how bad you feel, and he gives you a good life. Choose to get closer cuz that's the only good there is. I wish you only happiness and all the good.
Good morning Dainy. Your frank explanation of the contradicting thought and expectations helped me understand my own frustrations with my Jewish friends. Now I see why they are sad and full of shame. And I have more compassion for what they experience. I hope you go take a bold step and go to Mexico and experience its history and beauty. Jump and your wings will appear. ❤
Thank you ❤ pretty much every high-control group, whether religious or otherwise, requires mental gymnastics and double-think, to use an Orwellian term. Looking back at some of the things I said before I left that in the dust, I'm both aghast at how I could think that and full of pity for the person I was, struggling to make sense of the world with only the convoluted framework I had been given. For example: in college, while working as a tutor in the writing center, I argued that men's and women's brains are just inherently different - as many in these comments are doing. A friend and fellow tutor pointed out to me that my very presence in college contradicted what I was saying, and I was shocked into silence. It wasn't a gotcha moment - that friend truly cared about me, and I was able to tell her a few years later what a big role she played in my transformation just from that one comment.
@ I think you are free from all of that. It’s not you anymore Transformation is speaking your reality and destiny. Your words define yourself and your life now. No one else. Your friend clearly tried to show you this in college. Now please. Grow your mind to fit how wonderfully others see you.
Totally appreciate what she is saying. I myself, as a Jewish person didn't grow up w this. But I do know not everyone experiences these things. This is her story. Remember that. Of course any abuse is wrong.
Dainy, I applaud your courage for breaking free. I do believe every religion has a radical sect. I admire your strength and bravery!! I'm sure it was a difficult decision. I'm proud of you! It's funny you mentioned movies. I see Hasidic people at our local movie theater. Hasidic men frequent cigar shops. I didn't think smoking was allowed. I live in a town boarding Lakewood, NJ, and boy, do i have "stories". I've lived her 50 years, and I've seen changes you're talking about here, too. I don't understand how extremists maintain a large following.
Answer is , they are not extremist, she is portraying her narrative. Obviously 99% of the communitie have a different narrative and don't find it extreme and actually love it
There is a Dutch woman called Dina Perla Portnaar who grew up in the orthodox community in the Netherlands and has left. She did several interviews in English. Maybe she would be an interesting guest?
It hit me hard when she mentioned that she was looking for an answer to keep her in. That was me shortly after I'd left home at 18. My mom took me on pilgrimage a few years after that.. Clearly she thought this was going to keep me in the religion. It did the exact opposite. It put me in a group of my peers who were also questioning things. All it did was show me that I wasn't alone in not believing.
It is so sad that followers of the God who invites "Come let us reason together" reject critical thinking. It makes no sense. Blessings to you in your life!
Thank you, Willow. (I use ey/em pronouns, by the way - I see the enby flag in your profile picture, figured you might want to know!) A lot has changed in the 20 years since I was in high school, but unfortunately, as you say, the things I described haven't changed much.
From Dainy's statement itself, you can tell her family was on the less observant or strict side, where the legal custom was against watching movies, likely including tv, why it was taught by the teachers and even her friends disapproval of her watching movies.
@@oorderconnect2188the 60s are an ocean apart from the 90s, and even more from now in the 2020s. According to Samuel Heilman in his book **Sliding to the Right: The Contest for the Future of American Jewish Orthodoxy**, the 1960s is just about when all these changes and the intensification of Haredi insulation began. Worth a read if you want a better understanding of how we got to here from there.
Strangely enough, I first watched 12 Angry Men at my (modern orthodox in the UK) Cheder. It led to a discussion about a persuasive argument in the mishna about a wall IIRC.
There’s no law forbidding a teacher from being friends with a child’s family. I taught my friend’s son in Kindergarten and first grade. It was understood that I was Miss R. at school and he was expected to obey the rules like anyone else. One weekend we got together for a hike and picnic in Connecticut. On that trip, the child addressed me by my first name.
That's a very different situation than a teacher de facto adopting a student and treating her as a child without the involvement of the parents. Many Bais Yaakov schools don't have guidance counselors or social workers, or they have guidance counselors with minimal licensing and experience. Teachers are not and should not be stand-ins for social workers.
I'm curious and genuinely don't know but what is the difference between Hasidic and haredi, is Hasidic still very traditional but a bit more lenitant and open minded re work education and what's allowed
You could say it's the opposite - Hasidic communities tend to be a lot stricter than non-Hasidic Haredi. But that's one difference among many, and the history of both streams of Haredism is fascinating and complex.
Wonderful interview! Thank you both! I just wanted to say that I was sad go hear that no one liked her... I hope she does not internalize that... truth is she was not a good candidate but not because she ead not worth it but rather because she was a liability as she was not all in for that kind of life. As she said, she ws lucky ahe did not get married at that point, that way. I am a non practicing Jew, lived alone in the US away from my home country, got my Ph.D and taught literature (althought it was not exactly my calling) and met my husband online and married at 44! I was sad I didn't have children (so my advise to younger women is freeze your eggs just in case). I have been happily married for 11 years, i have never found someone that was such good match for me. I am glad I didn't get married just because. It was worth the wait. I also changed countries and professions, so a lot can still happen for you and your future will be more of your liking as you walk through life making choices that make you happy and are faithful to yourself... best of lucks!
Thanks for saying this! I did get past the pain of not getting dates, because I realized that enough of my individuality was showing through that mothers could see I wasn't the kind of match they wanted for their sons - and that's good! A matchmaker once told me she'd have to "think outside the box" for me, which hurt at the time but now seems laughable because - yeah, I'm not fitting their box!
I went to Neve Yerushalaim after high school. It was a good experience but found many of the girls that attended didnt want to question and were very engrossed in the orthodox lifestyle. I always had questions and sometimes was judged for asking not so much by the teachers but the other students. It felt like there was a competition of who was a better Jew. Many years later Ieft the orthodox community because I never felt true to myself like I was an imposter.
I'm so sorry you experienced that. Being judged by your peers for not being religious enough can cut deeper than being judged by authority figures. It is a classic tactic of high-control religions to create an environment where people compete to be more righteous, thus perpetuating the cycle of increasing strictness. I hope you have found happiness and fulfillment now ❤
Honestly, any fundamentalist version of any religion is very very similar. In my academic work, I was astounded just how similar Haredi Judaism and the Christian Right are. Down to so many turns of phrase, though one is usually in English while the other is usually Hebrew or Yiddish. But when it comes down to it, religious control is the same no matter what the religion is.
@dainybernstein4751 Of course Judaism, Christianity, and Islam will have similarities. An observer from outer space may well consider all three denominations of the same religion. More interesting would be comparison of extreme versions of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Zorasterism with the Abraham faiths.
@@dainybernstein4751 I have also found this in my studies of highly restrictive, insular, fundamentalist religious groups, and they are found in Islam, Judaism, Christianity, etc. And control of females is a commonality across the board.
It bothers me that they were pushing PT/OT/speech therapy yet people who go to school for these professions can easily graduate with as much student debt as an MD or DO and will make much much less money than a doctor. Not that people shouldn't go to school for those professions, but they need to be sure to go for the right reasons, rather than pleasing their family.
I thaught you had a more understanding and supportive audience. People seem very judgy in the comments here. Thanx for telling your story. There seems to be some parts missing. would like to know what you tried to do to help the schools because it was mentioned as something tou got in trouble for, now that you are on the outside it is not your responsibility, but I was just wondering why you, as a teacher still in the school system couldn't teach the students?
Dainy, firstly I want to express appreciation for your articulation and shining intelligence. As someone still in the community, It's unfortunate that some people in the community make people as intelligent and articulate as you feel sqeezed out! You'd actually make a great teacher! I'd be happy for my children to have you teach them. With regards to yichud, it's interesting because it's actually a innovative idea that can protect people from sexual exploitation. How many cases are there in the world of sexual abuse that we know about that started by luring women to isolated places...think Harvey Weinstein and the like. Unfortunately it's taught as law, and applied to an extreme instead of smart intelligent wisdom, but there is certainly wisdom there. Thank you for expressing your valuable insights
The problem with Harvey Weinstein was power imbalance, not seclusion. And the frum community has power imbalance in spades. I appreciate your words. I did end up teaching college, and many of my students often told me how much they loved my teaching (not all students, because you can't win them all!) - I was offered jobs in Bais Yaakovs school after I left, most notably by my mother's cousin who runs a school in Queens. Unless something majorly changes in the way school are run there, I would never even consider going back. Teaching in Bais Yaakov is not actually teaching, and I know that now because I've taught for real. I wish you and your daughter the best.
@dainybernstein4751 Thank you for the response. Certainly power imbalance played a role while isolation created the stage for that to play out in a technical sense. Power imbalance in our community is definitely a issue and abusive. I do find myself correcting and counterbalancing some of the ridiculous things my daughters learn in Bais Yaakov and my sons in Yeshiva, and it's alot of work and part of the responsibility of parenthood. Luckily I have a wide knowledge of Torah that I supplemented on my own with world literature, philosophy psychology and religious ideas from a wide variety of thinkers like Tillich Jung Moore and the like. I also encourage my children to read and question in addition to watching videos like yours. Purely secular culture has its set of issues and like all things it's the balance that's hardest to achieve, which is why things always gravitate towards extremes. Just look at the disputes between the thinkers like Sarte Camus and many others regarding communism vs capitalism. The balancing is an ongoing lifetime process. That said I validate and agree with everything you're saying because this attitude is not the norm in the society. In my home we're constantly trying to separate the wheat from the chaff and the baby from the bathwater. My children do feel nourished by their deep knowledge and connection to their Jewish roots as do I. Unfortunately Heideggers "they" within our society is a lower common denominator. Thank you for your voice and the more people that speak up the more we can counter extremes. Btw, ever read "The Rebel" from Camus?
Yes, very good interview. It's interesting, the more I watch these types of videos, the more obvious the commonality of human experience is. I've heard similar stories from people of multiple (and no) religious backgrounds. And the trends to "tightening up the reigns" Dainy talks about aren't unique to Judaism (Orthodox and all it's derivatives). Those trends were / are happening in the larger society too. I've seen (and lived) it in Christianity. I've heard it from Muslims. I've come to the conclusion that "purity culture" has sprung out of the backlash of the sexual revolution of the 60's. Which brought with it the proliferation of not only promiscuity, but also ped-feel-ee-aa. It is a very real danger and most kids today are growing up differently than their parents did. I kept a lot closer eye on my son and who he was around than my parents kept on me. And I read books written by psychologists and s*x crimes law enforcement investigators so I knew what to look for in order to protect my own son. So I understand the reasons for the religious communities gravitations toward "purity culture" trends. Granted, that doesn't make it easy for people who trying to live by the weight of their own moral convictions as opposed to religious rules and regulations. And yes, there's a certain aspect of human development that this is just a part of. The quest for where is truth. I've listened to several interviews on this channel (and other channels of similar content - and across a spectrum of subjects. All the way from "religious right" to "de-transition(ers)". "Right" or "left" it's the same "mind control practices".
1:19:52 The gasp I just let out. Openly condemning critical thinking feels so anti-Jewish to me. Having always been a part of a non-orthodox or pluralist Jewish community, it’s hard to comprehend. It’s so shameful.
It's too much for a RUclips comment! But I'd recommend books and articles written by Zev Eleff and Chaim Waxman - they're academic books, but if you're up for it, they delve into Modern Orthodoxy and are really good.
I can relate to no knowing anything about your own anatomy I didn't even know that the urethra and vagina were different I thought it was one in the same my parents didn't believe I sex Ed I was a perfect victim for any predator because of my lack of understanding and being taught like you that it's our responsibility as females to dress modesty so not to cause a brother to stumble and your actions were policed as well my dad always hated my laugh because it was to loud, and I was corrected on how I walk and how I speak literally everything cause it isn't "lady like" it's still a trigger today because of the unhealed trauma of constant criticism, we couldn't be alone with boys either and i know as kids we experimented on each other even as siblings because we didn't know any better and wanted to see how things worked especially my brothers. I grew up Fundie. Thank you for sharing your story and being brave it's so validating different religion yet similar experiences can be shared ❤
In my Agikuyu tribe culture in kenya our cant get married before your older siblings are married but it can happen that younger siblings get husband that husband pay part of dowry for older siblings then she can get married , By the way,Agikuyu tribe culture worship one God,we have many rules and laws, but for me no thanks anywhere animals are slaughtered and sacrificed not in humane ways, count me out, and other complications ,no I love God and am responsible for keeping my soul clean period.
The sad part is that Gd still wants to hear from you. Just because "religion" isnt always good doesn't mean you should prevent yourself from having a relationship with the Creator
@@anonymousYC if you pay attention to what I'm saying in this video, you'll see that I did in fact leave because I don't believe there's a god. But life choices are never that simple. I could have stayed in the community even though I didn't believe, if everything else hadn't been so miserable. I may have stayed if I did believe despite the other miseries. Put it all together, and you have a complex explanation for a complex decision in a complex situation.
Strange. I went to an all girls Catholic school in the 1950’s. But I certainly knew about sex before 11th grade. No, the nuns didn’t teach sex ed, but my mother told us girls about it when we were around nine years old. She was pregnant with my brother, Kevin, so we had questions. Catholicism teaches that sex ed is the duty of parents, mother to the girls, father to the boys. The parents know when is the appropriate age. Each child is different.
Lol that is really something. I don't know how the rabbis came up with that rule, and to be fair, it was considered only borderline okay - the really good kids didn't dare cross that boundary to the slippery slope I clearly slid down! /sarcasm/
@stephenfisher3721 good lord! Sure you want to hear it lol? To begin with, just think of the grime in it. A million pots a day run through that thing. When it gets cleaned (which we're all hoping gets done daily or weekly) it is the inside, but not the lines. Water runs thru but no scrubbing. That gets caked up very fast being used so much. The company will send reps to clean the lines, but you have to pay, or have an agreement. On top of the perfect pot being made, you have human error. When you make 20 pots a day, things get spilled.. nature of the beast. Busboy are frequently idiots, and put stuff in there 🙄. You also must know where the machine has been, or there's no telling what might have been run through it! As a not kosher opinion, I'm sticking to tea
"am I asexual or am I traumatised?" wow wow wow that's so on point! Story of my life!
I'm considered an attractive woman but because of all the horrible sexual things I've been through, I literally have 0 interest in sex, especially with another person.
Men constantly try to be with me and I tell them you wouldn't want me I have 0 interest in sex. They never believe me and swear up and down they will be the ones to change me
It makes me sick to my stomach to even think of it.
I believe traumatized. 😢 She is such an amazing soul.
Yep, I struggle with that as well
@@paulad.4578 we will never know. She's certainly traumatized but would she have always been ace we can't know because we can't go backwards 😢 however if she gets treatment and finds that her feelings start to change I guess she'll have an idea.
I went to a non Jewish school and at the age of 7 was bullied into playing a greek gdess in a play, because i wouldn't my headmaster made me swim 100 lengths to get a badge with the whole class watching and made everyone stay behind late watching me struggle and just before i could finish the last length he told me to get out of the pool and i wouldn't get the badge! As a child who grew up without a mother I would have traded places in a second! This is such propaganda and women of certain persuasion always cause problems for everyone else who doesn't lay down a red carpet for them! Just because she didn't like it now everyone must dislike it? You will find people in every school who were unhappy with the environment! To start a witch hunt and become a victim thereby assuming everyone else is is very self absorbed.
What a lovely and well-spoken person. Her parents should be very proud
My 6 yo son was prohibited from being friends with a 8 yo girl after her family became orthodox. It was very traumatic for my son.
Oh, no. I'm so sorry.
That’s so sad. Thanks for sharing.
It’s sick
One of the things I didn't talk about in this interview is the way still-frum people would descend on social media anytime a formerly-frum person or group of people started talking to insult, sneer, yell, and generally bully them in the hopes of shutting them up.
This comment section, and the ramp up I've seen as Shelise has been releasing more Orthodox stories, is right on point for how the frum community responds.
We will not shut up, no matter what you try to do to us.
And...does it help if you don't shut up? Are you any better off screaming from the rooftops? All it shows is "your" own inability to conform to the standards set by Torah law and hundreds of generations of our mesorah It speaks to YOUR WEAKNESS, NOT THE COMMUNITY' S..because the rest of us easily adapt and respect and HAVE PRIDE in what you obviously Cannot HANDLE!! Your rebelliousness is YOUR FLAW and WEAKNESS and not the other way around!
Your life path is totally biblical and accurate, bc anyone who questioned group-think in biblical times suffered. I think you’re amazing and I’m proud to have been able to listen to you ❤️🔥
Nope! No we will not.
@SukiSays23 oooh I have thoughts on this! I recently reviewed a book called Heretic: The Many Lives and Deaths of Jesus Christ, by Catherine Nixey. It's a great, very readable book showing really clearly that the past was way more tolerant than we tend to think today. It's being released January 3, well worth a read. Good belated Christmas/Hanukkah gift too!!
@@dainybernstein4751i think alot of Orthodox people here are just trying to say that you're experience doesn't reflect everyone. I know many Orthodox people who are kind and accepting. I don't you can take an entire group of people and chalk them, or try to predict their personalities. Especially now the Jewish people need to treat everyone well.
Trauma masquerade as many things, the more we talk about it the more people are able to connect dots and achieve the goal of healing.
Thank you for being brave to talk about it all.
Wow, what an amazing interview! Danny, you are articulate, brave and a person of great integrity and intellectual honesty. I wish you joy and peace in your life.
Being a good person and treating people with kindness is enough of a religion for me.
Absolutely !!!
My grandparents left Borough Park when my grandmother became pregnant with my aunt. I was eventually born and while I love being Jewish, I was not raised religious. Dainy, you are very well spoken, and I appreciate you.
Dainy, you have been the most innocent - rebellious person. I am glad you have never given up to discover that our life is more than that
Dainy, you are so brave and amazing. May you continue your healing journey 🙏🏾💕
Seeing Dainy's interview and seeing 'em respond to comments here is so great! What a smart person. You have my respect and appreciation
Dainy, thank you for being strong and vulnerable. CtC Team, as always, thank you for the high quiality videos, education goes a long way.
Very nice interview. Wishing you the warmest, most lovely, fulfilling life, Dainy! 🥰
While I don’t want to invalidate this guest's experience, I have to say that mine is similar yet so different. I graduated from the same school as Dainy, at around the same time. I am also an intellectual who got a Bachelors and Masters Degree from two secular private colleges, and I constantly enroll in continuing education classes which stimulate me intellectually. I have a demanding job in which I use my training and experience to make good money doing what I love. I am also an Ultra Orthodox Jewish wife and mother, and I am fulfilled in that aspect of my life as well. Like Dainy, I "rebelled" by listening to secular music like Kelly Clarkson and Selena Gomez (although I renamed them on my mp3 player so no one would know.) I think the thing that separated our experiences, however, was getting answers to my questions, being encouraged to think critically, and being lauded for my intellectual curiousity. I was never told to "just believe," but was given deep and intellectually coherent reaponses to my questions. I wish Dainy the best and I hope that her life is happy and fullfilling... ❤
None of this sounds invalidating to me! I'm glad you got answers that satisfied you, and that you're living a life you chose 💜
Loved this episode!! We would love for a part 2😁😁
@@marcelyreyes564 exactly! I’d be so proud if she was my daughter… and I’d love to hear more
Shelise you're such an incredible presenter, I love how you are so calm and composed and such a good listener. Your shows are awesome.
The laws against being secluded with a man are very sensible.
It protects women and girls from rape or molestation.
And it protects men from false accusations.
VP Pence was mocked as a religious fanatic for never being alone with a woman.
But he was never the victim of false accusations like many other politicians.
That is what attract me to the show. You are very good, Shelise.
@@andreeabelciu6081 she really is incredible.
I actually prefer more dialog between Shelise and her guests.
What a wonderful storyteller & truth teller you are. Thank you for your willingness to be so vulnerable & share your experience, strength, & hope. You’re simply amazing!!!
Fantastic interview. Dainy is a wonderful speaker and storyteller.
Dainy your openness is amazing. As a teacher your experiences in the educational system are both enlightening and disheartening. As vouchers and charters are growing I worry more kids will end up at very strict schools. I hope to always be a teacher that welcomes questions.
I agree. It’s a very real problem in this country, and is only going to get worse with the next presidency. Add to that the poorly regulated religious based homeschooling across many religions/sects, and we are going to have even more indoctrinated and insufficiently educated adults.
Thank you for such an insightful interview! as an orthodox myself (but not from the us and not the same culture) i agree that so many things need to be thrown out the window and exposed so it doesnt continue to the next generation ! especially this trend of tightening the laws year after year for no reason and with no halachic basis. thank you for speaking out
I do have two small points to add if i may. one especially because it is a recurring theme in these videos :
the laws of tsnius, how women should cover themselves.
The main issue in this area is that we are not taught the why how what of it, we are just taught cover ourselves.
But it has nothing to do with sexuality, or that women will be guilty if something happen.
There are two sides to the tsnius rules: one specifically for women that they should not act like prostitutes (the talmud words not mine), and that includes everything even above clothing, behavior etc.
The second part affects both men and women, and that is something people don't know or tend to forget. both men and women are obligated to cover their knees and elbows and clavicule etc.
(Side note covering elbows is actually controversial, it has more to do with covering the armpits and of course people went overboard)
Chassidish boys are not allowed to wear shorts after three as well.
You will almost never see a rabbi or any orthodox man with shorts or short sleeves. obviously we put em emphasis on women because
a) theyre an easier target
b) there are more type of clothing and trends with women
Second subject is yichud, being alone with the opposite gender. Dainy explained it beautifully but made it seem as though it was a sick idea because who thinks of sexuality with a 3 yo girl or 9 yo boy.
these laws are in place to protect the people, not to say " 3 yo girls are sexual beings".
Im sure there are plenty of women in the world who would have loved to have these rules in places when they were abused by their stepdad or uncle or anyone.
In judaism it is crucial to remember that whilst the way orthodox judaism is being taught nowadays is crooked and misinterpreted and frankly mysogynist, the original laws of the torah were there to protect people. unfortunately we are not being taught in a manner that would enable us to see that.
Thank you for your comment. You make some excellent points. Based on the academic reading I've done in the field of religious studies, though, I would disagree that the laws of the Talmud were put in place to protect us. The idea of protection in the way we think of it now was not the same at the beginning of the first millennium when these laws were written down. We may choose to interpret and apply them that way, and kol hakavod if that's how you and your community see them (I mean that sincerely, I know it can sound sarcastic in text but I'm being genuine).
@stephenfisher3721 you can say that without being so rude and cruel in your response.
I spent more than six months in a religious (dati leumi) kibbutz in Israel. It got hot in the summer. All the men had short sleeves; many men had short pants. In fact, wearing a tiny kipa sruga, short sleeves, short pants, and sandals was the iconic summer dress for these Orthodox male kibbutzniks.
Realize that Orthodox Judaism is quite diverse; not everyone is Haredi.
@@dainybernstein4751 Hi. Please share the academic sources that demonstrate what you just said, as well as that three-year-olds have agency, as you indicated in your interview. Isn't the three-year-olds yichud prohibition about an adult's responsibility towards the three-year-old (to not put the three-year-old in a vulnerable situation) rather than an obligation that the three-year-old has independently (agency)?
Please see Maimonides, Mishneh Torah Issurei Biah, Chapter Twenty-Two.
@DS316316 if anything I said hinted at a 3yr old having the ability to consent, I apologize. Of course a 3yr old doesn't have the ability to consent. A 3yr old does have agency, but not informed agency in this context, and a 3yr old is never at fault for their own abuse.
As to the sources, I'm afraid finding an exact source for the exact detail I mentioned would require me to sort through bibliographies which I don't have access to at the moment. Any good survey of the history of religion will say something to that effect, though. Ask your local librarian for books with titles like "Introduction to Religious Studies" and focus on the chapters talking about origins and historical developments of religion.
For specifically Jewish/Haredi contexts, check out a book I've recommended several times in this comment section, Marc B. Shapiro's *Changing the Immutable: How Orthodox Judaism Rewrites Its History.*
For a recent study on the Talmud, try *Tradition and the Formation of the Talmud* by Moulie Vidas (2014) or pretty much anything by Daniel Boyarin.
I love the way that this is becoming a platform for off-the-derech frum girls!
The divergence between Modern Orthodox and Black Hat Frum has been hugely significant in my lifetime, and one reason is because education and educational voices have been restricted to Yeshivish/Chassidic people; and it's important to have different approaches to education. Which we don't have outside massive population centres in the Anglosphere, and in Israel.
Sweetheart. My heart breaks hearing this. So much pain.
I am a modern Orthodox Jew and I just want you to know what you went through was HORRIFIC. I am the youngest of 10 and I understand some of what you speak of. Sending so much love and strength.
I love seeing comments like this. Understanding it was their experience and that both yours and theirs can co-exist. You validate, listen and empathize. Thank you ❤️
@ thank you I love your channel. Thank you for giving people a voice especially those who were left voiceless for so long.
So much love for you Dainy. I want to hear more from you!
Dainy your journey toward authenticity is inspiring. You are special, wonderful, and liberated not to have gone through marriage.
She is one of the best guests your channel has had. Wonderful explanations and so interesting!
I think you are a well rounded person... So glad you got WHAT YOU wanted in life.
❤❤❤
Thank you !! It was such an amazing journey. I loved this episode, hugs to both of you
I so very much agree that the whole orthodox section of Judaism has become ultra ultra ultra orthodox
The difference even between now and ten years ago is astounding!
Nothing is tzanua enough, everything is assur!
Why do you think that is?
A whole variety of reasons. A couple of reading recommendations if you're interested:
- Sliding to the Right: The Contest for the Future of American Jewish Orthodoxy, by Samuel Heilman
- Strictly Kosher Reading: Popular Literature and the Condition of Contemporary Orthodoxy, by Yoel Finkelman
- Changing the Immutable: How Orthodox Judaism Rewrites Its History, by Marc B. Shapiro
- and a little self-plug, my dissertation titled "Reading the World: American Haredi Children's Literature, 1980-2000"
Otherwise they would be found out, called out, and lose their control of you.
It's very frustrating when one person's experience is so widely accepted as general. Not only is every community so different in their customs, every family has such different dynamics, and then each individual reacts to their circumstances with their own nature. I applaud her bravery for being vulnerable and appreciate that she did try to remind everyone that it was her own story. EVERYONE has their own story.
But critical thinking is the basis of Jewish studies, so one can not say that a religious Jew is devoid of critical thinking per se.
Many beliefs and laws fall upon the foundation of "objective truths," like God is real, and women should be subservient to a man... When you are forced to base your reasoning upon these beliefs, much of it is justification rather than critical thinking. The ultra orthodox communities are typically taught not to question what they have been taught in terms of values and follow blindly based on the teachings of their rebbe. But at the heart of it, "critical thinking" is vague in description. There isn't a set of guidelines to determine whether someone is a critical thinker. It's subjective at its core.
One might not want others to say this, but there was a literal article in a frum magazine a few years explicitly stating that critical thinking is not a goal of frum education and should not be. Shivim panim le-Torah, after all!
@dainybernstein4751 I would say that critical thinking is encouraged and prized, except when it becomes self-critical of the haredi society and thereby menacing.
Definition of critical thinkin by Oxford Dictionary: objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgement.
Hard to practice when the source you start from, i.e
The Torah, is by definition true and unchangeable.
You very rapidly risk to be labeled an heretic or you can only practice sophisms. .
@@paolaristori6179 but because the Torah is open to interpretation, it has become the basis of critical thinking in Judaism.
I'm a black woman, christian, Brought up very strict. If I had ever been labeled 'at risk' I would have fallen into a depression. I was close to it anyway, as I never felt trusted, no matter how I conformed. BTW I grew up in the 50's and am now 76 yrs old.
Thanks for the podcast and kudos to you for having the courage to share. Sorry to hear what happened to you. It's very sad.
One of the problems is that instead of teaching that one should respect each other and respect the privacy of the other party, they teach that anyone who ejaculates in vain will go to hell and they teach to fear women. When I was religious, I had a rabbi who was so afraid of women that he wouldn't let a woman talk to him because he was afraid to look at her.
In the end it will be okay, I hope for a better, freer world if we respect each other.
Thanks again
Wonderful comment!
I could listen to her all day
All the best to you Dainy! My parents were raised orthodox but joined a conservative temple when they married. My father who davened before going to work said he wanted to attend services as a family and sit together.
I too am I professional at throwing out class derailing questions. Tis an art.
Break the silence. Break the cycle.
She is so intelligent. That makes it difficult to follow ridiculous stories, rituals, practices. So proud of you!
Funny story about the kosher thing...I'm not even Jewish but in my family we preferred kosher hot dogs because who the heck knows what's in the other ones?? In the Northeast people knew what that meant. Then I moved to Arkansas and asked in a movie theater if the hot dogs were kosher and they looked at me like I had grown another head, like, what the heck is that??
There was an interesting case where townpeople were coming down with this weird sickness. Turns out, the local meat processing plant had switched to a non-kosher method of butchering. The hormone glands left in the processed cows were what was making people ill. I certainly prefer Kosher meats after hearing that.
I grew up in the northeast too. I Prefer kosher stuff too. Sometimes I even just naturally eat in a kosher way. (but i still love bacon on a sandwich etc)
Another amazing interview! I found this channel a few months ago and I'm watching both the new and the older interviews and I'm learning so much. I would love to see interviews with survivors of the "Troubled Teens" schools as well, if that's somethnig that interests you. I know they are not religions, but they are definitely culty environments.
Please have Dainy on again. She is so intellectual and well-spoken. I would love to know more about her experience. 😊
30:18. Girl, I know EXACTLY what you are saying. It's sad. You grow up afraid to talk and get to know people for fear of rejection because at home you are constantly put down for being yourself.
❤️
I’m in the process of leaving… it’s so complicated
I wish you all the best, may your future be brighter than the stars 🌟
SO worth it, though. Endless beauty out here, as well as crapola...
My heart goes out to you. You can do it ❤️
Never give up, there's no good deed that goes to waste. Hashem loves you no matter how bad you feel, and he gives you a good life. Choose to get closer cuz that's the only good there is. I wish you only happiness and all the good.
Good morning Dainy. Your frank explanation of the contradicting thought and expectations helped me understand my own frustrations with my Jewish friends. Now I see why they are sad and full of shame. And I have more compassion for what they experience.
I hope you go take a bold step and go to Mexico and experience its history and beauty. Jump and your wings will appear. ❤
Thank you ❤ pretty much every high-control group, whether religious or otherwise, requires mental gymnastics and double-think, to use an Orwellian term. Looking back at some of the things I said before I left that in the dust, I'm both aghast at how I could think that and full of pity for the person I was, struggling to make sense of the world with only the convoluted framework I had been given.
For example: in college, while working as a tutor in the writing center, I argued that men's and women's brains are just inherently different - as many in these comments are doing. A friend and fellow tutor pointed out to me that my very presence in college contradicted what I was saying, and I was shocked into silence. It wasn't a gotcha moment - that friend truly cared about me, and I was able to tell her a few years later what a big role she played in my transformation just from that one comment.
@ I think you are free from all of that. It’s not you anymore Transformation is speaking your reality and destiny. Your words define yourself and your life now. No one else. Your friend clearly tried to show you this in college. Now please. Grow your mind to fit how wonderfully others see you.
Totally appreciate what she is saying. I myself, as a Jewish person didn't grow up w this. But I do know not everyone experiences these things. This is her story. Remember that. Of course any abuse is wrong.
Dainy, I applaud your courage for breaking free. I do believe every religion has a radical sect. I admire your strength and bravery!! I'm sure it was a difficult decision. I'm proud of you!
It's funny you mentioned movies. I see Hasidic people at our local movie theater. Hasidic men frequent cigar shops. I didn't think smoking was allowed. I live in a town boarding Lakewood, NJ, and boy, do i have "stories". I've lived her 50 years, and I've seen changes you're talking about here, too. I don't understand how extremists maintain a large following.
Answer is , they are not extremist, she is portraying her narrative. Obviously 99% of the communitie have a different narrative and don't find it extreme and actually love it
I've left the community myself, but to be fair, I'd not categorise being chasidic as extremist.
This woman is great!! loved this interview. More of her please and her life story
thank you so much for sharing the TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just loved this interview! What a wonderful, interesting person Dainy is!
Another strong, courageous real person, telling their own story. Speaking against your personal experiences.
Hi Dainy! I loved listening to you...I would love to hear more about you!
There is a Dutch woman called Dina Perla Portnaar who grew up in the orthodox community in the Netherlands and has left. She did several interviews in English. Maybe she would be an interesting guest?
It hit me hard when she mentioned that she was looking for an answer to keep her in. That was me shortly after I'd left home at 18. My mom took me on pilgrimage a few years after that.. Clearly she thought this was going to keep me in the religion. It did the exact opposite. It put me in a group of my peers who were also questioning things. All it did was show me that I wasn't alone in not believing.
It is so sad that followers of the God who invites "Come let us reason together" reject critical thinking. It makes no sense. Blessings to you in your life!
We need soooop much more from this young person🙌🏼♥️!
"Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool"
- Mark Twain
con men pulled it off because everyone was a fool back then, now people need childhood indoctrination to believe in that crap.
He was an overrated writer.
@okigi-wo5zm Says a random 9-5 RUclips commenter
@@okigi-wo5zmand that quote is overused
"Religion is the opiate of the masses." --Karl Marx
Liked. Shared. Commented. Sent the algorithm out to break the silence.
I grew up in the community ey is speaking about, unfortunately not much has changed. Thank you for sharing your story it makes me feel less alone.
Thank you, Willow. (I use ey/em pronouns, by the way - I see the enby flag in your profile picture, figured you might want to know!) A lot has changed in the 20 years since I was in high school, but unfortunately, as you say, the things I described haven't changed much.
@ I edited the comment, did I use them correctly? I’m not too familiar with neopronouns.
@@willow5235 yep! You got it! ❤
From Dainy's statement itself, you can tell her family was on the less observant or strict side, where the legal custom was against watching movies, likely including tv, why it was taught by the teachers and even her friends disapproval of her watching movies.
I went to camp Torah vadass in the 60s they showed us movies.
@@oorderconnect2188 are camps organized by Poskim?
@oorderconnect2188 would you know if a Posek established the camp? organizations do things but doesn't always mean they had proper heter.
@@oorderconnect2188the 60s are an ocean apart from the 90s, and even more from now in the 2020s. According to Samuel Heilman in his book **Sliding to the Right: The Contest for the Future of American Jewish Orthodoxy**, the 1960s is just about when all these changes and the intensification of Haredi insulation began. Worth a read if you want a better understanding of how we got to here from there.
She was raised right wing/hareidi orthodox, no question. Lots of these kids watch harmless movies, this is not unique.
Where did this distrust of women start? So tiresome.
Great interview
Strangely enough, I first watched 12 Angry Men at my (modern orthodox in the UK) Cheder. It led to a discussion about a persuasive argument in the mishna about a wall IIRC.
There’s no law forbidding a teacher from being friends with a child’s family. I taught my friend’s son in Kindergarten and first grade. It was understood that I was Miss R. at school and he was expected to obey the rules like anyone else. One weekend we got together for a hike and picnic in Connecticut. On that trip, the child addressed me by my first name.
That's a very different situation than a teacher de facto adopting a student and treating her as a child without the involvement of the parents. Many Bais Yaakov schools don't have guidance counselors or social workers, or they have guidance counselors with minimal licensing and experience. Teachers are not and should not be stand-ins for social workers.
Such a delightful person! Thanks for sharing.
I love this woman! All the best to her!
I'm curious and genuinely don't know but what is the difference between Hasidic and haredi, is Hasidic still very traditional but a bit more lenitant and open minded re work education and what's allowed
You could say it's the opposite - Hasidic communities tend to be a lot stricter than non-Hasidic Haredi. But that's one difference among many, and the history of both streams of Haredism is fascinating and complex.
Wonderful interview! Thank you both!
I just wanted to say that I was sad go hear that no one liked her... I hope she does not internalize that... truth is she was not a good candidate but not because she ead not worth it but rather because she was a liability as she was not all in for that kind of life. As she said, she ws lucky ahe did not get married at that point, that way. I am a non practicing Jew, lived alone in the US away from my home country, got my Ph.D and taught literature (althought it was not exactly my calling) and met my husband online and married at 44! I was sad I didn't have children (so my advise to younger women is freeze your eggs just in case). I have been happily married for 11 years, i have never found someone that was such good match for me. I am glad I didn't get married just because. It was worth the wait. I also changed countries and professions, so a lot can still happen for you and your future will be more of your liking as you walk through life making choices that make you happy and are faithful to yourself... best of lucks!
*sorry about my mistakes.. i am in a moving bus and this system does not allow me to edit and correct...
Thanks for saying this! I did get past the pain of not getting dates, because I realized that enough of my individuality was showing through that mothers could see I wasn't the kind of match they wanted for their sons - and that's good! A matchmaker once told me she'd have to "think outside the box" for me, which hurt at the time but now seems laughable because - yeah, I'm not fitting their box!
Her voice is so soothing!
This was great. Powerful stuff. What an incredible channel.
Even modern orthodoxy has a tight box, just each box is different . I raised critical thinkers and I get criticised for it.
Hate this for you 😢
Hate this! You are on the right side of history, lass!
What do you mean by tight box?
a straight forward, clear speaker.
I went to Neve Yerushalaim after high school. It was a good experience but found many of the girls that attended didnt want to question and were very engrossed in the orthodox lifestyle. I always had questions and sometimes was judged for asking not so much by the teachers but the other students. It felt like there was a competition of who was a better Jew. Many years later Ieft the orthodox community because I never felt true to myself like I was an imposter.
I'm so sorry you experienced that. Being judged by your peers for not being religious enough can cut deeper than being judged by authority figures. It is a classic tactic of high-control religions to create an environment where people compete to be more righteous, thus perpetuating the cycle of increasing strictness. I hope you have found happiness and fulfillment now ❤
Excellent as always .
such an intelligent young woman with a wonderful personality.
Cataracts are the 3rd leading cause of blindness… the other 2 are religion and politics 😒
The 3 year old thing is very concerning. 3!!! Maybe education is the better alternative
What a terrific interview ❤
Live your life to the fullest 💜
This was very interesting Dainy thank you for giving us an insight into the ultra orthodox community.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Does anyone realize how similar strict jews and strict Muslims are??
Honestly, any fundamentalist version of any religion is very very similar. In my academic work, I was astounded just how similar Haredi Judaism and the Christian Right are. Down to so many turns of phrase, though one is usually in English while the other is usually Hebrew or Yiddish. But when it comes down to it, religious control is the same no matter what the religion is.
@dainybernstein4751
Of course Judaism, Christianity, and Islam will have similarities. An observer from outer space may well consider all three denominations of the same religion. More interesting would be comparison of extreme versions of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Zorasterism with the Abraham faiths.
@@dainybernstein4751 I have also found this in my studies of highly restrictive, insular, fundamentalist religious groups, and they are found in Islam, Judaism, Christianity, etc. And control of females is a commonality across the board.
Those misogynistic religions developed in the same area. Women are not valued, only sons. It has its history in a tribal, violent culture
It bothers me that they were pushing PT/OT/speech therapy yet people who go to school for these professions can easily graduate with as much student debt as an MD or DO and will make much much less money than a doctor. Not that people shouldn't go to school for those professions, but they need to be sure to go for the right reasons, rather than pleasing their family.
Thank you so much for sharing your story ❤
I thaught you had a more understanding and supportive audience. People seem very judgy in the comments here. Thanx for telling your story. There seems to be some parts missing. would like to know what you tried to do to help the schools because it was mentioned as something tou got in trouble for, now that you are on the outside it is not your responsibility, but I was just wondering why you, as a teacher still in the school system couldn't teach the students?
Omg! I went to school with them!!!
Lol hi!!!!!!
I almost went to neve but I went to a different seminary!! I was in a Baal tuva school.
Dainy, firstly I want to express appreciation for your articulation and shining intelligence. As someone still in the community, It's unfortunate that some people in the community make people as intelligent and articulate as you feel sqeezed out! You'd actually make a great teacher! I'd be happy for my children to have you teach them.
With regards to yichud, it's interesting because it's actually a innovative idea that can protect people from sexual exploitation. How many cases are there in the world of sexual abuse that we know about that started by luring women to isolated places...think Harvey Weinstein and the like. Unfortunately it's taught as law, and applied to an extreme instead of smart intelligent wisdom, but there is certainly wisdom there.
Thank you for expressing your valuable insights
The problem with Harvey Weinstein was power imbalance, not seclusion. And the frum community has power imbalance in spades.
I appreciate your words. I did end up teaching college, and many of my students often told me how much they loved my teaching (not all students, because you can't win them all!) - I was offered jobs in Bais Yaakovs school after I left, most notably by my mother's cousin who runs a school in Queens. Unless something majorly changes in the way school are run there, I would never even consider going back. Teaching in Bais Yaakov is not actually teaching, and I know that now because I've taught for real. I wish you and your daughter the best.
@dainybernstein4751
Thank you for the response. Certainly power imbalance played a role while isolation created the stage for that to play out in a technical sense. Power imbalance in our community is definitely a issue and abusive.
I do find myself correcting and counterbalancing some of the ridiculous things my daughters learn in Bais Yaakov and my sons in Yeshiva, and it's alot of work and part of the responsibility of parenthood. Luckily I have a wide knowledge of Torah that I supplemented on my own with world literature, philosophy psychology and religious ideas from a wide variety of thinkers like Tillich Jung Moore and the like. I also encourage my children to read and question in addition to watching videos like yours. Purely secular culture has its set of issues and like all things it's the balance that's hardest to achieve, which is why things always gravitate towards extremes. Just look at the disputes between the thinkers like Sarte Camus and many others regarding communism vs capitalism. The balancing is an ongoing lifetime process. That said I validate and agree with everything you're saying because this attitude is not the norm in the society. In my home we're constantly trying to separate the wheat from the chaff and the baby from the bathwater. My children do feel nourished by their deep knowledge and connection to their Jewish roots as do I. Unfortunately Heideggers "they" within our society is a lower common denominator. Thank you for your voice and the more people that speak up the more we can counter extremes. Btw, ever read "The Rebel" from Camus?
@Listentoyoursoul9535 the only Camus I've read is The Stranger in a college French class lol.
Yes, very good interview. It's interesting, the more I watch these types of videos, the more obvious the commonality of human experience is. I've heard similar stories from people of multiple (and no) religious backgrounds.
And the trends to "tightening up the reigns" Dainy talks about aren't unique to Judaism (Orthodox and all it's derivatives). Those trends were / are happening in the larger society too. I've seen (and lived) it in Christianity. I've heard it from Muslims. I've come to the conclusion that "purity culture" has sprung out of the backlash of the sexual revolution of the 60's. Which brought with it the proliferation of not only promiscuity, but also ped-feel-ee-aa. It is a very real danger and most kids today are growing up differently than their parents did. I kept a lot closer eye on my son and who he was around than my parents kept on me. And I read books written by psychologists and s*x crimes law enforcement investigators so I knew what to look for in order to protect my own son. So I understand the reasons for the religious communities gravitations toward "purity culture" trends.
Granted, that doesn't make it easy for people who trying to live by the weight of their own moral convictions as opposed to religious rules and regulations. And yes, there's a certain aspect of human development that this is just a part of. The quest for where is truth.
I've listened to several interviews on this channel (and other channels of similar content - and across a spectrum of subjects. All the way from "religious right" to "de-transition(ers)". "Right" or "left" it's the same "mind control practices".
I Love her story… it is so nice to be educated!! 😊
Thank you for sharing your story
1:19:52 The gasp I just let out. Openly condemning critical thinking feels so anti-Jewish to me. Having always been a part of a non-orthodox or pluralist Jewish community, it’s hard to comprehend. It’s so shameful.
Thank you, Dainy. Would you maybe explain right wing modern orthodoxy?
It's too much for a RUclips comment! But I'd recommend books and articles written by Zev Eleff and Chaim Waxman - they're academic books, but if you're up for it, they delve into Modern Orthodoxy and are really good.
I can relate to no knowing anything about your own anatomy I didn't even know that the urethra and vagina were different I thought it was one in the same my parents didn't believe I sex Ed I was a perfect victim for any predator because of my lack of understanding and being taught like you that it's our responsibility as females to dress modesty so not to cause a brother to stumble and your actions were policed as well my dad always hated my laugh because it was to loud, and I was corrected on how I walk and how I speak literally everything cause it isn't "lady like" it's still a trigger today because of the unhealed trauma of constant criticism, we couldn't be alone with boys either and i know as kids we experimented on each other even as siblings because we didn't know any better and wanted to see how things worked especially my brothers. I grew up Fundie. Thank you for sharing your story and being brave it's so validating different religion yet similar experiences can be shared ❤
In my Agikuyu tribe culture in kenya our cant get married before your older siblings are married but it can happen that younger siblings get husband that husband pay part of dowry for older siblings then she can get married ,
By the way,Agikuyu tribe culture worship one God,we have many rules and laws, but for me no thanks anywhere animals are slaughtered and sacrificed not in humane ways, count me out, and other complications ,no
I love God and am responsible for keeping my soul clean period.
Thanks. That's an interesting comment!
Interesting that she says critical thinking is discouraged from my experience in the Jewish religious world this couldn’t be further from the truth.
So sad because I am “ultra orthodox” and live a beautiful and freee life! I feel bad for her experience but this is not the norm.
All the videos about the ultra Orthodox are every reason I'm not religious at all.
The sad part is that Gd still wants to hear from you. Just because "religion" isnt always good doesn't mean you should prevent yourself from having a relationship with the Creator
@@anonymousYCwhat if they don’t believe in a god?
@ericabetz8059 then that should be the reason they aren't religious. Not these videos. Just saying.
@@anonymousYC if you pay attention to what I'm saying in this video, you'll see that I did in fact leave because I don't believe there's a god. But life choices are never that simple. I could have stayed in the community even though I didn't believe, if everything else hadn't been so miserable. I may have stayed if I did believe despite the other miseries. Put it all together, and you have a complex explanation for a complex decision in a complex situation.
Strange. I went to an all girls Catholic school in the 1950’s. But I certainly knew about sex before 11th grade. No, the nuns didn’t teach sex ed, but my mother told us girls about it when we were around nine years old. She was pregnant with my brother, Kevin, so we had questions. Catholicism teaches that sex ed is the duty of parents, mother to the girls, father to the boys. The parents know when is the appropriate age. Each child is different.
Thank you for sharing your story. I also grew up with the Mary Martin version of Peter Pan. Amazing!
I really appreciate her story
How strange that you can have coffee, but not syrup... as former waitstaff, do you KNOW what that coffee pot has or has had in it? Eek. Dumb logic
Lol that is really something. I don't know how the rabbis came up with that rule, and to be fair, it was considered only borderline okay - the really good kids didn't dare cross that boundary to the slippery slope I clearly slid down! /sarcasm/
So tell us.
What kind of things are going into the coffee maker besides coffee?
@stephenfisher3721 good lord! Sure you want to hear it lol? To begin with, just think of the grime in it. A million pots a day run through that thing. When it gets cleaned (which we're all hoping gets done daily or weekly) it is the inside, but not the lines. Water runs thru but no scrubbing. That gets caked up very fast being used so much. The company will send reps to clean the lines, but you have to pay, or have an agreement. On top of the perfect pot being made, you have human error. When you make 20 pots a day, things get spilled.. nature of the beast. Busboy are frequently idiots, and put stuff in there 🙄. You also must know where the machine has been, or there's no telling what might have been run through it! As a not kosher opinion, I'm sticking to tea
There are charedi men as we as chasidic men who are in business