The 14" versions of the MacBook Pros are known for being a bit more prone to heak soak than the 16" model so it's impressive its holding its own against a gigantic chassis like the MSI.
they just replaced the m1 with m4 max 14'' at work. This machine is a beast!! Light, beautiful, and super powerful. I'm not even the biggest fan of mac as I usually prefer windows for work and personal, but man, I'm loving it. I just wish i could run more games on it natively. Maybe with Surface going ARM, developers will start targeting ARM devices more.
MacBook will still perform on full power without being plugged in unlike windows laptops which will be losing more than half of their performance unplugged!
My M4 Mac Mini draws all of 3 whole watts at idle, and about 45 watts when running at full tilt on all cores running a local AI model. By comparison, my Core i9 12900k with an RTX 3080 under the same workload is drawing 450-500 watts. I have a 1kWh UPS for each system. This means that my i9/RTX 3080 on battery backup will last no more than 2 hours under load, while my Mac Mini will run for about 9-10 hours under load under identical working conditions.
@@MattTalkTech half the size and getting more better read and write speed that just crazy how Macbook smaller than an Laptop that has 4 less cores to it still beaten it at speed
I have a comparison myself. I had an Asus Rog Zephyrus M16 with a RTX 3070 and an Intel i9 inside. I turned off Turbo Boost, set TDP to the lowest possible amount and even undervolted it a bit. When playing Satisfactory casually, the integrated Turbines ran at full tilt, forcing me to use Headphones. Also the device in general got very hot to the touch as well. Even when not playing games, the device tended to become quite hot on its surface the longer it was used. Its turbines also got engaged every now and then, when watching RUclips for example. When I got my Macbook the first time, I legitimately thought its fans are broken. There‘s no way a device can yield such performance while not heating up at all. The device itself stayed cool to the touch, so it wasn‘t just Apple aggressively restricting fan spin. Now I got an M4 Max and the game I play casually (Satisfactory) not only runs with higher fps, but the fans are just audible. Not annoying in any way, you just know they exist. Worlds difference between this and what the Windows Gaming Laptop offered me. Also, the game runs via Crossover through CPU and GPU translation layers, and it‘s still running so good. Imagine if the game was actually natively released for the Mac. Now as was mentioned in the comments, I definitely wouldn't recommend this machine if all you want to do is playing games. But if you happen to have it, gaming is comfortably possible on it!
The biggest problem with Mac gaming is probably compatibility (price to performance being second). It's not necessarily a bad gaming device performance wise, but games rarely are ported to mac or even if they are their ports have underwhelming performance a lot of the time since they don't optimize well.
@@aerohydra3849Apple tried to do gaming in the 90's and failed but I think after Apple Arcade being launched they will release Apple Arcade Pro for heavier gaming, likely similar to Xbox Cloud gaming, and will receive compatibility on a large scale, they will likely have exclusives for Apple Arcade Pro and even some remastered Pippin games, Apple VR headset will be exclusively for certain games they release under Apple new gaming studio they will also announce (Apple Gaming Studio) alongside two newer VR headset that are cheaper. The app will work similar to Apple TV+ app where you can purchase an Apple Arcade Pro subscription or purchase the games and they sit in a separate library, Apple exclusive title games won't be for purchase as they are subscription based only. They will also up their pricing for their cloud plans to accommodate for gaming, we could see Apple Arcade Pro costing per month 30$-50$. Apple will also release their new Apple TV box to accommodate for the changes by including a MSeries chip. Purchased games run natively while Arcade Pro runs on the cloud. Apple Arcade Pro could release in 2026-28.
The fact that we are even talking about a Mac vs. PC in terms of gaming, and a PC with the absolute highest end graphics card available, is something I never thought I would see. As a user of both Macs (for creative things,) and PCs (for gaming,) for many years, this is a very exciting development. I got my M4 mini last week and I've been loving it. I have compared it to my PC with RTX4070 in Premiere, Davinci Resolve, and Lightroom and the Mac is faster in every aspect. For $599. Incredible.
Yes, the 14" version suffers from CPU throttling at much lower workloads due to being unable to dissipate the heat efficiently. For heavier workloads, it is necessary to buy the 16" model.
It’s not a ton different if your not pressing it too hard, for benches and short tests , for long term yeah you have to use a fan tool to crank the 14 inch fan to full right from the get go… that being said I only get the 16 to keep anymore ….however the fan behaviour in the Mac’s is a bit of the pain by default…. Raises heat to max before the fan spins up… a fan tool is required for heavy loads imo:)
For battery life comparison, here's a realistic suggestion: Get a youtube video playing in 4k in a loop until battery dies. This is a real world case, as nobody uses cinebench on a daily basis, but everyone watching your video uses youtube.
None of the 3 AAA games you tested are optimized natively for Apple Silicon, making this an unfair comparison. Also, the Macbooks have the exact same performance on battery or plugged in, which no Windows laptop has, and the Apple Silicon chips also use WAY less power than x86 CPU's and discrete GPU's, and it's a single combined chip, so the proper comparison between these will always be "performance per watt", cause increasing noise, fan speed and power isn't innovation, it's lack of innovation.
That's exactly my thought, I picked one up a few days ago and it's great. The m4 mac mini is a great deal, I had been waiting to pull the trigger and glad I did. Definitely recommend it.
@@giovannifm In my case, after upgrading to M4 Pro and more unified memory I’m not so sure if it’s the right choice. Compatibility would limit my workflow, and at the 2k mark mini itx custom pcs are kind of a more viable option, but I want to make the move to MacOS.
I hope not! We do not need discrete GPU now that SOC is the way to go. What we need is a Threadripper-size CPU with eveything on it. Just imagine what could be done on the x86 side if AMD did that: 32-core cpu (all P-cores), 128-core GPU and 128GB RAM... this would revolutionize PCs for the next 10 years at least (and save the x86 too).
Macbook Just plugs in by magsafe or usb-c Who wants an cable that barly able to be used if it not that model type to use To me is an good idea Macbook did but changed it from lighting cable to usb-c they likey seen their USB-C just the same as their lighting cable just before Samsung try to make it ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2012 Lighting cable - Acts like an Beta verison of USB-C l USB-C 2014 just comes in than Apple likey change it to USB-C due to Lighitng does the same as USB-C likey due to EU can't much tell each other copying each other how the cable looks ------------------------------------------------------------------------ why make our own cable means less profits loss and more workloads when we can used USB-C which someone did and cheaper than ours people making new cable and work on new Macbook and Phones
Hi matt, hope that you continue to bring info. To us, about gadgets and tech, more power to your channel, GOD BLESS😊 I want to have a cellphone this 2024 dec. i hope …
It might be informative to run these tests both on battery and on shore power. For those of us who use laptops on the road, they may only be plugged in to charge overnight. But folks using laptops at home may have them plugged in most of the time.
@@white.lodge.dale.cooper But that's not how most people use laptops. Our company issues laptops both Mac and Windows, everyone docks them to the monitor.
I'm watching this video because after 9 years I'm switching from a macbook pro to a PC gaming laptop. Watching this video because considering the MSI stealth specced out as you are reviewing. So a very relevent video for me. Many thanks!
because they run on completely different archtectures, the most power efficient x86 processor doesn't even come close to the least power efficient arm processor in any laptop lol
Thanks for doing that. I was actually wondering how they stacked up. That's about what I expected from the MSI, but the M4 Max is astonishingly fast and efficient even using Crossover. I'm excited to see what it can do with Cyberpunk.
The one thing you forgot to mention is the forty ninety actually becomes more efficient at higher resolutions. If you did it at 4k, it, may get better numbers, then that.
@@tapasghosh4600 benchmarking at 1080p is ideal for CPU comparisons, but won't give you an idea how a high-end GPU performs because it will not be anywhere near fully-utilized.
All that with 100watts. All you need now is native support for AAA games, and a much faster display. The slow response time is extremely noticeable while gaming.
You do realize OpenCL hasn't been actively updated / supported on the Mac for many years now. Using Vulkan might be better for direct comparison of performance.
Exactly. OpenCL is only really useful as a legacy comparison. He should be using Metal on the Mac and Vulkan on Windows. Percentage gains measured from an M1 Max and a desktop RTX4080 (not exact, but it’s what I have available) are about 68% for Metal, and a gain of 4% for Vulkan. That estimated gain for Metal does appear to be a bit optimistic though, putting it around 195k, but let’s use Geekbench’s official numbers and say about 180000 (a conservative gain of 55%). At that point if you add 4% for Vulkan the M4 Max is ahead but it’s so close you could just call it statistical noise. They’re almost identical at that point.
@@ctm5969 Metal is the best comparison since everything that isn’t abandonware runs on Metal. Even when running games through Crossover you’re using Metal (translating Vulkan or DirectX to Metal)
@@rainmannoodles Geekbench measures raw rasterization horsepower so it’s correct in that aspect but for more optimized 3D workloads Blender’s benchmark is a good measurement tool as well.
Good comparison, Thank you! One question though. Why did you compare the games in 1920x1200 res? lower resolution (1080p etc. ) usually are CPU bound. So I think it would be better to compare these two at higher res (QHD or more). I am aware that these two laptop have different screen res, and some games are just not optimized for Mac. But if you want to see the GPU comparison, higher res comparison would give you a better result.
People need to understand that M4 Max uses about 25W and the 4090 is around 120W. Comparing integrated GPU vs dedicated GPU is hard when they are built differently.
@@lasarith2 Actually if you push it, m4 Max GPU peaks around 85W in my 14" macbook. It's normal usage such as transcribe, live caption, or even using magnetic timeline, it uses less than 30W in most cases while my 4090 usually eats around 120 to 150W doing similar things and peaks at 500W.
M4 Max is my choice because I trust apple for security they provide 🎉 well just need to fill up my Piggy Bank 🍻 hopefully by mid of next year 🤞 Maybe wait for M5 Max 😅 Thanks for a great review 🍻 and good luck for the upcoming lucky winner 🥳
That’s amazing. For the first time ever, we can truly say that Apple has caught up to windows in terms of raw GPU performance, not just relying on optimization and help from encoders and the neural engine to beat them.
@@l_aggythe m4 ultra is rumored to have a Brand new architecture and not just being 2 m max chip glued together. We’ll see how that Mac Studio performs on cyberpunk and AC shadow once it’s unveiled
Just bought and returned the stock m4 pro ($2k) after some testing between it and my 4090 Asus laptop, and 4090 custom build desktop. The Davinci resolve magic mask test I did on the same 13 minute video clip yielded the real world results I needed to see. Magic mask results : 49 minutes to track the whole clip on M4 pro. 8 minutes on my 4090 desktop. 12 minutes on my Asus Rog Zephyrus g16 4090 laptop. Wish I had the M4 Max to test out, but calculated the 32 core gpu m4 max would take 20-25 minutes for the same clip, and the 40 core would be closer to 16-20 minutes. For someone who wanted to believe the hype, real world use with the macbook means I'm not going to even bother with fx if they take that long. Render times don't matter since you can just go grab a coffee and leave it be, but in the moment - FX rendering needs to be quicker than this for professionals spending $3k-$4k on a non-upgradeable machine.
max chip has 2 video encoders and decoders, whereas the pro chip has only 1 each, its not just about the gpu cores, and it might still be around the 10 min mark, which is still good considering the form factor and the overall package.. I'd wait for more benchmarks or try to get hold of the Max to do the tests
Yeah you're not gonna be close to Nvidia with processing of that nature in Davinci Resolve through Apple Silicon yet. Other areas of Davinci Resolve could be more competitive for the M4, but overall, I'd only consider Apple for video editing if I needed to be predominantly on battery only.
Apple could easily add value by doubling even tripling GPU cores for the same price. If the M4 Max had 80 GPU cores, there would be no contest as it would esaily be the king. When Apple releases an Ultra version of the M4 with 80 core GPU it would be insanely overpriced.
@@VividTheaterIf you put 80 cores in a M4 Mac you loose everything that makes It interesting which is being powerful as well as power efficient. Not to mention the heat problems that even the 16" would have to cool such a besst.
That makes sense the 4090 cost more than the M4 pro MBP all by itself. That kind of GPU bound task is something that would be more comparable to M4 Ultra which is likely to cost more in line with a 4090 system. Also, the 24g memory on the 4090 will be a major handicap for LLMs.
M4 is a power house. Apple should consider getting their laptops into gamming since these things are a power house and make a hub port for newer models
How exactly is Apple supped to "consider getting their laptops into gamming"? Apple doesn't make games. AAA game devs need to start making games for Mac.
@@white.lodge.dale.cooper Because a company makes more money when they have a larger crowd tailored too. Apple just need to code to optimize on the device not the game devs don't need to worry...
Many people are now using Apple’s M-series notebooks for running local AI workloads. So, next time, it would be great to see some AI benchmarks, specifically testing the text generation speed of large language models (LLMs), such as tokens per second. This can be easily done with LM Studio (there are other options too, but this one is simple to use). Just install the software, choose LLM models like Llama 3.1 8B or Qwen 2.5 Coder 14B, and run some tasks to see how they perform.
I bought my grandson a gaming laptop. This thing puts out so much heat that it raises the temperature of his room by more than 10 degrees. The fans run so fast that I'm wondering when the solder will melt on the motherboard.
Gaming Laptops have more aggressive fan curves since they prioritize performance over noise. The actual temperatures in that laptop will likely actually be lower than the Mac since the Mac has a very lazy fan curve due to wanting to keep it quiet.
@@aerohydra3849 The actual temperatures inside a gaming laptop are far greater than in a MacBook. You don't need a thermal imaging device to tell the difference; all you need do is place your fingers along various parts of the keyboards. Windows-based gaming laptops have a relatively short lifespan due to the heat generated by the video card.
Look at all the obnoxious sticker crap stuck onto the MSI laptop. "Intel inside" "4K 120Hz" "MINI LED GAMING DISPLAY" "Stealth IQ AI Studio". It's gross.
They do not "overheat", overheating implies the temperature goes outside of its designed specifications, which isn't the case with mid range to top end gaming laptop. My strix g16 with an i9 13989hx is designed to operate in temperatures of about 100 degrees Celsius. For any laptop if the temps get to hot, the laptop will force shut down. I personally have never had this happen, ever.
yes ofc all new gaming laptops reach high temperatures due to implanting high end chip in such a small device even with under-clocking the laptop will still be hot
@oscarcampbellhobson not really the case with ptm 7950 thermal pad. Most likely they throttle is due thermal paste pump out but thermal pads doesnt and still deliver great temps after several years.
How well built is that PC laptop? The one thing I can definitely attest to is that Macs seemingly last forever! My 2020 MacBook Pro runs as smoothly now as it did out of the box, as does my 2015 iMac, my 2008 iMac and my 2002 PowerBook G4! The last two I obviously no longer use on the daily, but all of those have been hammered from day one, especially my 2008 iMac that was left on 24/7 for 7 years!! I've had my M2 Pro mini for a year now and I see that lasting me at least another three decades! 😁
Good video as usual and as I mentioned before, I’m hoping to get a MacBook Pro 16 inch and a new iPhone next year unless of course I win this one 1️⃣ 😊
Another major difference is speakers. Windows speakers basically suck so when doing video editing, it’s a struggle to hear clearly what the video will sound like when presented to a client. This is a struggle for me. I have a 4090 Razer blade 16 and an M1 Max 16”. The blade destroys the Mac in many ways but when you consider the energy efficiency of the Mac and its great speakers, it is kind of worth having a little slower performance with the Mac. Running a project side by side it’s stunning to see what the Mac can accomplish on battery and how quiet it is. Almost embarrassing for the Razer. I don’t know if you use resolve, but I would love to see how the m4 max does with heavy gpu tasks like magic masking and tracking compare to the 4090. My 4090 wipes the floor with the Mac because of the gpu power. Thanks for the great video!
Hi, thank you for this video, my purchase will be the MacBook Pro 16 M4pro chip, as far outperforms my needs by my old 2019 Mac Pro just doesn’t cut it anymore, love the reviews as makes things much easier for us all, tar
Great video so far. Neat seeing how a mobile 4090 vs Desktop version compares. Subbed shamelessly for giveaway. Definitely do a lot of high res gaming and also rendering so looking forward to a 5090 in 2025! Also as a note, should put in some 1440p or 4K results. Anyone spending $3K on a laptop isn't going to be gaming at 1920x1080 / 1200 most likely. The GPUS are hard-bottlenecked and so it shifts the performance and results to CPU and other components rather than purely stressing the GPU.
It’s amazing how fast you can put put info on these new models. I am getting a new macbook, was thinking about the M4 Pro 14core with 48gb ram. Debating if I should get the M4 Max 16core
I'm really excited about the prospect of getting my hands on Meta's new AR glasses! I've been following the development of AR technology for a while now, and I think it has the potential to revolutionize the way we interact with the world around us
I’m on the hunt for some new tech upgrades - a new GPU for my PC and a MacBook. But I’m holding off on making any purchases until the Christmas sales come around.
Another interesting test you could do is to see the performance results of the processors with both laptops not connected to the mains (i.e. disconnecting the chargers), since the PCs are powered by their own internal battery, their performance is greatly reduced. And that would be the case if you were working in a place without electrical outlets, for example. However, with Apple's M-series ARM chips, that doesn't happen.
I have both and the Windows laptop with 4090 and regret I didn’t get a desktop. Fan noises are approach the Powermac G5. Hope it keeps working for years for the price.
Impressive comparison Matt. I’m waiting for MacBook Air m4 I’ll upgrade it to 1TB ssd maybe ram as well, also I’ll build SFF gaming pc with ryzen x3d and higher mid range Gpu
Great comparison! Price may be higher at point of entry for the Macs but they really hold on to their value for much longer! I say this is a win for the Mac!
Hi, thanks for that test. In 2024 it's probaly too late for me, but in 2025 I am seriously considering a switch from my custom-built PC to Mac Studio Ultra, once released.
I'm determined to get this new M4 Max Macbook pro next year. I think it's going to change my life. It's like having a production studio in your backpack!
For a tech gift I would love an iPad for taking notes at school or a Macbook for programming. I am studying Software Engineering and having those things would help a lot indeed.
Really looking forward to build a PC the coming year. Currently working as a game developer but trying to get into graphics programming. Waiting for AMD, Intel or even Qualcomm to make something as good as the M-series chips. I know it's a long shot but I think they are taking steps in the right directions. Here's to hoping!
I'm looking forward to buy a Mac Mini M4 before 2024 ends. Been using a Macbook retina from 2012 for Davinci Resolve and would love to finaly make the transition to the new M chips. Great giveaway!
How well do you think the M4 Max is compared to a MSI Laptop with an RTX 4090 inside?
* Both CPU's have 16 Cores
apple
5:19 if both are 16-cores, then you should work on your attention to detail on your graphics. You have the M4 Max listed at 20 cores.
M4 Mac mini
@@ClShBe the Mac mini does not have 20 CPU cores.
That MSI is a beast - but seriously who would want to lug round such a huge laptop? Aren't laptops supposed to be portable?
The 14" versions of the MacBook Pros are known for being a bit more prone to heak soak than the 16" model so it's impressive its holding its own against a gigantic chassis like the MSI.
Exacttly my thoughts
Yea, 14" against a 18" does seem like a fair test of thermals.
😮
Good video❤
they just replaced the m1 with m4 max 14'' at work. This machine is a beast!! Light, beautiful, and super powerful. I'm not even the biggest fan of mac as I usually prefer windows for work and personal, but man, I'm loving it. I just wish i could run more games on it natively. Maybe with Surface going ARM, developers will start targeting ARM devices more.
MacBook will still perform on full power without being plugged in unlike windows laptops which will be losing more than half of their performance unplugged!
Exactly. And games don't really matter since they are not made for macs/metal.
Doesn't matter when either machine won't last 2 hours unplugged.
@@DukenukemX I work on my Mac for eight hours by the end of the day I have more than 50% left on the battery.
@@DukenukemXthat was an extreme stress test for normal use the Mac will last you the full day easily
My M4 Mac Mini draws all of 3 whole watts at idle, and about 45 watts when running at full tilt on all cores running a local AI model. By comparison, my Core i9 12900k with an RTX 3080 under the same workload is drawing 450-500 watts. I have a 1kWh UPS for each system. This means that my i9/RTX 3080 on battery backup will last no more than 2 hours under load, while my Mac Mini will run for about 9-10 hours under load under identical working conditions.
That size difference is crazy.
I know!!
That's why she said
@@HarshKumar-e6j 💀💀
@@MattTalkTech half the size and getting more better read and write speed that just crazy how
Macbook smaller than an Laptop that has 4 less cores to it still beaten it at speed
M4 Max is lowkey impressive considering it runs on much less watts.
The CPU performance is next level.
a 1/10 of energy and full blast on battery
That 18" Windows Laptop also comes with a free one year gym membership......you are going to need it.
Haha, yup!! Also extra health insurance option for back injury
Given the state of obesity in the first world nations that is prolly a plus not a minus
Helps you save on Gas bills too, but not on electricity.,
Its not a Laptop though, its a gaming PC that looks like a laptop
😢😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
.
The comparison was spot on
You saved me so much time!
I have a comparison myself.
I had an Asus Rog Zephyrus M16 with a RTX 3070 and an Intel i9 inside.
I turned off Turbo Boost, set TDP to the lowest possible amount and even undervolted it a bit.
When playing Satisfactory casually, the integrated Turbines ran at full tilt, forcing me to use Headphones.
Also the device in general got very hot to the touch as well. Even when not playing games, the device tended to become quite hot on its surface the longer it was used. Its turbines also got engaged every now and then, when watching RUclips for example.
When I got my Macbook the first time, I legitimately thought its fans are broken. There‘s no way a device can yield such performance while not heating up at all. The device itself stayed cool to the touch, so it wasn‘t just Apple aggressively restricting fan spin.
Now I got an M4 Max and the game I play casually (Satisfactory) not only runs with higher fps, but the fans are just audible. Not annoying in any way, you just know they exist. Worlds difference between this and what the Windows Gaming Laptop offered me.
Also, the game runs via Crossover through CPU and GPU translation layers, and it‘s still running so good. Imagine if the game was actually natively released for the Mac.
Now as was mentioned in the comments, I definitely wouldn't recommend this machine if all you want to do is playing games. But if you happen to have it, gaming is comfortably possible on it!
I set windows maximum processor state at 70%, the fan never came on when not gaming.
The biggest problem with Mac gaming is probably compatibility (price to performance being second). It's not necessarily a bad gaming device performance wise, but games rarely are ported to mac or even if they are their ports have underwhelming performance a lot of the time since they don't optimize well.
@@aerohydra3849Apple tried to do gaming in the 90's and failed but I think after Apple Arcade being launched they will release Apple Arcade Pro for heavier gaming, likely similar to Xbox Cloud gaming, and will receive compatibility on a large scale, they will likely have exclusives for Apple Arcade Pro and even some remastered Pippin games, Apple VR headset will be exclusively for certain games they release under Apple new gaming studio they will also announce (Apple Gaming Studio) alongside two newer VR headset that are cheaper. The app will work similar to Apple TV+ app where you can purchase an Apple Arcade Pro subscription or purchase the games and they sit in a separate library, Apple exclusive title games won't be for purchase as they are subscription based only. They will also up their pricing for their cloud plans to accommodate for gaming, we could see Apple Arcade Pro costing per month 30$-50$. Apple will also release their new Apple TV box to accommodate for the changes by including a MSeries chip. Purchased games run natively while Arcade Pro runs on the cloud. Apple Arcade Pro could release in 2026-28.
I love this story! It is amazing what Apple have done with their silicone!
Hello buddy how do you run satisfactory on mac pls do tell me
Its my fav game would love to run it on a mac too
The fact that we are even talking about a Mac vs. PC in terms of gaming, and a PC with the absolute highest end graphics card available, is something I never thought I would see. As a user of both Macs (for creative things,) and PCs (for gaming,) for many years, this is a very exciting development. I got my M4 mini last week and I've been loving it. I have compared it to my PC with RTX4070 in Premiere, Davinci Resolve, and Lightroom and the Mac is faster in every aspect. For $599. Incredible.
Very well explained comparison 👍
Isn't the 14" m4 max a tad worse than the 16" m4 max performancewise due to worse heat dissipation?
Yes, the 14" version suffers from CPU throttling at much lower workloads due to being unable to dissipate the heat efficiently. For heavier workloads, it is necessary to buy the 16" model.
True... but it is amazing in what it is delivering still
It’s not a ton different if your not pressing it too hard, for benches and short tests , for long term yeah you have to use a fan tool to crank the 14 inch fan to full right from the get go… that being said I only get the 16 to keep anymore ….however the fan behaviour in the Mac’s is a bit of the pain by default…. Raises heat to max before the fan spins up… a fan tool is required for heavy loads imo:)
For battery life comparison, here's a realistic suggestion: Get a youtube video playing in 4k in a loop until battery dies. This is a real world case, as nobody uses cinebench on a daily basis, but everyone watching your video uses youtube.
None of the 3 AAA games you tested are optimized natively for Apple Silicon, making this an unfair comparison. Also, the Macbooks have the exact same performance on battery or plugged in, which no Windows laptop has, and the Apple Silicon chips also use WAY less power than x86 CPU's and discrete GPU's, and it's a single combined chip, so the proper comparison between these will always be "performance per watt", cause increasing noise, fan speed and power isn't innovation, it's lack of innovation.
I want an M4 Pro Mac mini, kind of tired of laptops. Apple finally reach the point where the Pro chip is more than enough for what I do.
They are great!
That's exactly my thought, I picked one up a few days ago and it's great. The m4 mac mini is a great deal, I had been waiting to pull the trigger and glad I did. Definitely recommend it.
@@giovannifm In my case, after upgrading to M4 Pro and more unified memory I’m not so sure if it’s the right choice. Compatibility would limit my workflow, and at the 2k mark mini itx custom pcs are kind of a more viable option, but I want to make the move to MacOS.
@@GNMD_CTZNopencore hackintosh time
"finally" lol it's been like 4-5 years and their M-series chips have made leaps and bounds in that short amount of time
I’m hoping to update my PC! Love the channel ❤
dude that pc is a monster of a laptop. it's basically a movable desktop not a laptop anymore. not even worth comparing
I was looking at the chunky PC too like, “that thing is not far from being as bulky as a desktop PC”.
Its a laptop ok.
He's also comparing the smallest form of the m4, which is even more impressive
Haha, I know an 18 inch Laptop! Not many rucksacks for that....
@@MattTalkTech not to mention how big the power brick is for it!
Very nice comparison, keep it up with this high quality of videos😁
That crazy Apple has caught up with Nvidia on their native os games. Imagine in the future if Apple start making their own desktop GPUs
I hope not!
We do not need discrete GPU now that SOC is the way to go.
What we need is a Threadripper-size CPU with eveything on it. Just imagine what could be done on the x86 side if AMD did that: 32-core cpu (all P-cores), 128-core GPU and 128GB RAM... this would revolutionize PCs for the next 10 years at least (and save the x86 too).
But the new RTX 5000 series will be take next level, going to lot better than Apple GPU
Just imagine...
@@MattTalkTech what we need first is more games on mac
@@ansaarustado77 pretty sure we are only looking at maybe a 10-20% uplift
Well since tech products are very expensive in this part of the world we only watch unboxing videos to at least not feel left out 😅😅😅
Dream is free😅
No doubt about that
You forgot to put the large brick of the PC laptop charger in the desk... Need another rucksack 🎒 just for that😂
Haha, that is true! Take a full size kettle lead into it
Its not a large brick
@@Teluric2But it’s still a brick
Macbook
Just plugs in by magsafe or usb-c
Who wants an cable that barly able to be used if it not that model type to use
To me is an good idea Macbook did but changed it from lighting cable to usb-c they likey seen their USB-C just the same as their lighting cable just before Samsung try to make it
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2012 Lighting cable - Acts like an Beta verison of USB-C l
USB-C 2014 just comes in than
Apple likey change it to USB-C due to Lighitng does the same as USB-C likey due to EU can't much tell each other copying each other how the cable looks
------------------------------------------------------------------------
why make our own cable means less profits loss and more workloads when we can used USB-C which someone did and cheaper than ours people making new cable and work on new Macbook and Phones
Hi matt, hope that you continue to bring info. To us, about gadgets and tech, more power to your channel, GOD BLESS😊
I want to have a cellphone this 2024 dec. i hope …
The M4 Max has 16 cores in the CPU, not 20.
Yes and I have said this in the Pinned comment already
Very good comparison and very informative.... thanks man....from INDIA
It might be informative to run these tests both on battery and on shore power. For those of us who use laptops on the road, they may only be plugged in to charge overnight. But folks using laptops at home may have them plugged in most of the time.
Majority of people keep plugged in, especially if you're a dock user it's kinda unavoidable.
These tests were done with Both plugged in on benchmarks and game tests
@@SamHocking Not true. They're laptops. They're meant to be unplugged. On your lap. In the wild.
@@white.lodge.dale.cooper Agree. Most of the time when I'm traveling, my laptop is unplugged.
@@white.lodge.dale.cooper But that's not how most people use laptops. Our company issues laptops both Mac and Windows, everyone docks them to the monitor.
I'm watching this video because after 9 years I'm switching from a macbook pro to a PC gaming laptop. Watching this video because considering the MSI stealth specced out as you are reviewing. So a very relevent video for me. Many thanks!
Now unplug both machines and watch the 4090 laptop struggle a slow and painful death lol
because they run on completely different archtectures, the most power efficient x86 processor doesn't even come close to the least power efficient arm processor in any laptop lol
@@slurples149 So it's useless as a laptop unless you're next to an outlet. OK. How much does its power brick weigh?
@@white.lodge.dale.cooper like 500 gm? mabye a kg
id say plug the mackbook pro and see no increase in performance
@@lockhart1895 imagine plugging to get the full performance. Get a PC at that point
bro i subscribed your videos are great dessert titanium i love it
Comparing a 14 inch laptop to an 18 inch laptop is crazy work but good stuff.
Thanks
Thanks for doing that. I was actually wondering how they stacked up. That's about what I expected from the MSI, but the M4 Max is astonishingly fast and efficient even using Crossover. I'm excited to see what it can do with Cyberpunk.
The one thing you forgot to mention is the forty ninety actually becomes more efficient at higher resolutions. If you did it at 4k, it, may get better numbers, then that.
benchmarks are always done at 1080p
@tapasghosh4600 Maybe if you're using a mac. My laptop has a 4080TI and I always benchmark everything at 4k.
@@tapasghosh4600 benchmarking at 1080p is ideal for CPU comparisons, but won't give you an idea how a high-end GPU performs because it will not be anywhere near fully-utilized.
@@tapasghosh4600gpu benchmark for high-end gpu should always be done at 1440 or 4k😂get some education
@@tapasghosh4600 lol 1080p for benchmarking gpus is it still 2010?
Nice specs👍🏼
All that with 100watts. All you need now is native support for AAA games, and a much faster display. The slow response time is extremely noticeable while gaming.
not even, m4 max draws at max 50 watts
@@randomrocketofficial7020 Naah
85@@akshat8586
Yeah the slow response time sucks. And the m4 pro has even slower response than the m1 pro
@randomrocketofficial7020 On my M1 Max I used to have I was pulling 120 watts in some programs, so this is not true lol
i would like to see more editing and exports test. good video
You do realize OpenCL hasn't been actively updated / supported on the Mac for many years now. Using Vulkan might be better for direct comparison of performance.
Exactly. OpenCL is only really useful as a legacy comparison. He should be using Metal on the Mac and Vulkan on Windows.
Percentage gains measured from an M1 Max and a desktop RTX4080 (not exact, but it’s what I have available) are about 68% for Metal, and a gain of 4% for Vulkan.
That estimated gain for Metal does appear to be a bit optimistic though, putting it around 195k, but let’s use Geekbench’s official numbers and say about 180000 (a conservative gain of 55%). At that point if you add 4% for Vulkan the M4 Max is ahead but it’s so close you could just call it statistical noise. They’re almost identical at that point.
@@ctm5969 Metal is the best comparison since everything that isn’t abandonware runs on Metal. Even when running games through Crossover you’re using Metal (translating Vulkan or DirectX to Metal)
@@rainmannoodles Geekbench measures raw rasterization horsepower so it’s correct in that aspect but for more optimized 3D workloads Blender’s benchmark is a good measurement tool as well.
Good comparison, Thank you! One question though. Why did you compare the games in 1920x1200 res? lower resolution (1080p etc. ) usually are CPU bound. So I think it would be better to compare these two at higher res (QHD or more). I am aware that these two laptop have different screen res, and some games are just not optimized for Mac. But if you want to see the GPU comparison, higher res comparison would give you a better result.
People need to understand that M4 Max uses about 25W and the 4090 is around 120W. Comparing integrated GPU vs dedicated GPU is hard when they are built differently.
Exactly!! It is why I said something like this in the battery life part... It is hard to compare
It’s closer to 60 watts ( Maxtech testing)
@@lasarith2 Actually if you push it, m4 Max GPU peaks around 85W in my 14" macbook. It's normal usage such as transcribe, live caption, or even using magnetic timeline, it uses less than 30W in most cases while my 4090 usually eats around 120 to 150W doing similar things and peaks at 500W.
@@khoifoto
500 W 😮 that’s insane. I believe you, but I’m still surprised.
Laptop 4090 dgpu only goes upto 175W.
M4 Max is my choice because I trust apple for security they provide 🎉 well just need to fill up my Piggy Bank 🍻 hopefully by mid of next year 🤞
Maybe wait for M5 Max 😅
Thanks for a great review 🍻 and good luck for the upcoming lucky winner 🥳
ist the M4 Max just16 core? 12 performance and 4 low power cores?
16/40 is the current top spec.
RUclipsrs/Reviewers refuse to do their research nowadays
Yes. The M4 Ultra is supposed to be double the M4 Max. With 32 CPU and 80 GPU cores the chip will be a beast.
Great video, Matt. I have an M1 MAC mini. Might consider upgrading to the new M4 mini. I pull love to win the iPhone 16 Pro.
That’s amazing. For the first time ever, we can truly say that Apple has caught up to windows in terms of raw GPU performance, not just relying on optimization and help from encoders and the neural engine to beat them.
Isn't the 4090 laptop still nothing compared to its true counterpart.
@@l_aggy just as the M4 Max will pale next to the M4 Ultra in a desktop machine. Gotta compare like for like.
@@l_aggythe m4 ultra is rumored to have a Brand new architecture and not just being 2 m max chip glued together.
We’ll see how that Mac Studio performs on cyberpunk and AC shadow once it’s unveiled
Really amazaing video. I have never
used a mac but planning to buy a M4 Mac mini next year from my savings i made since i joined my job in 2024.
Just bought and returned the stock m4 pro ($2k) after some testing between it and my 4090 Asus laptop, and 4090 custom build desktop. The Davinci resolve magic mask test I did on the same 13 minute video clip yielded the real world results I needed to see.
Magic mask results :
49 minutes to track the whole clip on M4 pro.
8 minutes on my 4090 desktop.
12 minutes on my Asus Rog Zephyrus g16 4090 laptop.
Wish I had the M4 Max to test out, but calculated the 32 core gpu m4 max would take 20-25 minutes for the same clip, and the 40 core would be closer to 16-20 minutes.
For someone who wanted to believe the hype, real world use with the macbook means I'm not going to even bother with fx if they take that long. Render times don't matter since you can just go grab a coffee and leave it be, but in the moment - FX rendering needs to be quicker than this for professionals spending $3k-$4k on a non-upgradeable machine.
max chip has 2 video encoders and decoders, whereas the pro chip has only 1 each, its not just about the gpu cores, and it might still be around the 10 min mark, which is still good considering the form factor and the overall package.. I'd wait for more benchmarks or try to get hold of the Max to do the tests
Yeah you're not gonna be close to Nvidia with processing of that nature in Davinci Resolve through Apple Silicon yet. Other areas of Davinci Resolve could be more competitive for the M4, but overall, I'd only consider Apple for video editing if I needed to be predominantly on battery only.
Apple could easily add value by doubling even tripling GPU cores for the same price. If the M4 Max had 80 GPU cores, there would be no contest as it would esaily be the king. When Apple releases an Ultra version of the M4 with 80 core GPU it would be insanely overpriced.
@@VividTheaterIf you put 80 cores in a M4 Mac you loose everything that makes It interesting which is being powerful as well as power efficient. Not to mention the heat problems that even the 16" would have to cool such a besst.
That makes sense the 4090 cost more than the M4 pro MBP all by itself. That kind of GPU bound task is something that would be more comparable to M4 Ultra which is likely to cost more in line with a 4090 system. Also, the 24g memory on the 4090 will be a major handicap for LLMs.
Hopefully getting a M4 mac mini so I can start a desk setup. Great stuff as always
Let’s find out…
Thanks Matt.
No problem
I’m subscribed and hoping!!
M4 is a power house. Apple should consider getting their laptops into gamming since these things are a power house and make a hub port for newer models
How exactly is Apple supped to "consider getting their laptops into gamming"? Apple doesn't make games. AAA game devs need to start making games for Mac.
@@white.lodge.dale.cooper The games they make for Mac don't sell, so what's the point?
@@white.lodge.dale.cooper Because a company makes more money when they have a larger crowd tailored too. Apple just need to code to optimize on the device not the game devs don't need to worry...
Many people are now using Apple’s M-series notebooks for running local AI workloads.
So, next time, it would be great to see some AI benchmarks, specifically testing the text generation speed of large language models (LLMs), such as tokens per second.
This can be easily done with LM Studio (there are other options too, but this one is simple to use). Just install the software, choose LLM models like Llama 3.1 8B or Qwen 2.5 Coder 14B, and run some tasks to see how they perform.
I bought my grandson a gaming laptop. This thing puts out so much heat that it raises the temperature of his room by more than 10 degrees. The fans run so fast that I'm wondering when the solder will melt on the motherboard.
Slightly lower max gpu and cpu tdp and you will get less fan noise and not much less performance
Gaming Laptops have more aggressive fan curves since they prioritize performance over noise. The actual temperatures in that laptop will likely actually be lower than the Mac since the Mac has a very lazy fan curve due to wanting to keep it quiet.
@@aerohydra3849 The actual temperatures inside a gaming laptop are far greater than in a MacBook. You don't need a thermal imaging device to tell the difference; all you need do is place your fingers along various parts of the keyboards.
Windows-based gaming laptops have a relatively short lifespan due to the heat generated by the video card.
I would totally get one of the new Lunar Lake laptops, full x86 with long battery life, that’s the future we always wanted
Look at all the obnoxious sticker crap stuck onto the MSI laptop. "Intel inside" "4K 120Hz" "MINI LED GAMING DISPLAY" "Stealth IQ AI Studio". It's gross.
If only there was a way to remove stickers....
I think there’s an app you install to remove the stickers, it comes with the same app you remove all the bloatware with 😉
Haha a bit of advertising
Time to bust out the scraper and alcohol
I love your channel dude
The M4 Mac Mini with the M4 Pro looks phenomenal and has me considering it as a desktop solution.
Nice one, you won't regret it I am sure!
I love your videos ❤
Like this comment if you wanna vote me as the lucky winner of the i-phone.
Are the windows unplugged? Because for Macs, being blugged or not doesn't affect the performance
Gaming laptops are all around dumb because they overheat, and for the price just buy a pc with a gen older parts and it’ll out perform the laptop…
They do not "overheat", overheating implies the temperature goes outside of its designed specifications, which isn't the case with mid range to top end gaming laptop.
My strix g16 with an i9 13989hx is designed to operate in temperatures of about 100 degrees Celsius. For any laptop if the temps get to hot, the laptop will force shut down. I personally have never had this happen, ever.
@ ok yea fair point, bad terminology they throttle is what I meant
yes ofc all new gaming laptops reach high temperatures due to implanting high end chip in such a small device even with under-clocking the laptop will still be hot
@oscarcampbellhobson not really the case with ptm 7950 thermal pad.
Most likely they throttle is due thermal paste pump out but thermal pads doesnt and still deliver great temps after several years.
@ and how long does a very high end laptop last
I’m looking to get a 50mm 1.2 lens for my canon by the end of the year. Great video, I still using my MacBook m1 pro and works really well.
Buying the m4 pro thanks to your comparison video!
Great review. And I understand that I will switch to Max MacBook Pro M4pro
Thank you for letting me know the battery life while running Cinebench from 100% to 0%. This is exactly what my normal usage looks like. Very helpful.
Some real world tests would be nice. Like lightroom exporting, davinci rendering, etc. Both plugged and unplugged
Hoping to get a Mac mini M4 Pro and compare it with my RTX 3080 Ti-based PC... Great review by the way!
Hoping to buy the Mac Studio M4 Max, next year! Fingers crossed!
Which difference in price?
Mac is about 1500$ more
How well built is that PC laptop? The one thing I can definitely attest to is that Macs seemingly last forever! My 2020 MacBook Pro runs as smoothly now as it did out of the box, as does my 2015 iMac, my 2008 iMac and my 2002 PowerBook G4! The last two I obviously no longer use on the daily, but all of those have been hammered from day one, especially my 2008 iMac that was left on 24/7 for 7 years!! I've had my M2 Pro mini for a year now and I see that lasting me at least another three decades! 😁
Good video as usual and as I mentioned before, I’m hoping to get a MacBook Pro 16 inch and a new iPhone next year unless of course I win this one 1️⃣ 😊
Another major difference is speakers. Windows speakers basically suck so when doing video editing, it’s a struggle to hear clearly what the video will sound like when presented to a client. This is a struggle for me. I have a 4090 Razer blade 16 and an M1 Max 16”. The blade destroys the Mac in many ways but when you consider the energy efficiency of the Mac and its great speakers, it is kind of worth having a little slower performance with the Mac. Running a project side by side it’s stunning to see what the Mac can accomplish on battery and how quiet it is. Almost embarrassing for the Razer. I don’t know if you use resolve, but I would love to see how the m4 max does with heavy gpu tasks like magic masking and tracking compare to the 4090. My 4090 wipes the floor with the Mac because of the gpu power. Thanks for the great video!
Would be nice to know the Performance to watt ratio
And to the give away, i have everything i need, maybe a 2tb ssd for my old laptop. But i dont need a phone. I already have a new 12.
thinking about the new mac mini. my daughter broke her phone so a new phone would defo be amazing m8 . great job on this vid!
Hi, thank you for this video, my purchase will be the MacBook Pro 16 M4pro chip, as far outperforms my needs by my old 2019 Mac Pro just doesn’t cut it anymore, love the reviews as makes things much easier for us all, tar
Great video so far. Neat seeing how a mobile 4090 vs Desktop version compares. Subbed shamelessly for giveaway. Definitely do a lot of high res gaming and also rendering so looking forward to a 5090 in 2025!
Also as a note, should put in some 1440p or 4K results. Anyone spending $3K on a laptop isn't going to be gaming at 1920x1080 / 1200 most likely. The GPUS are hard-bottlenecked and so it shifts the performance and results to CPU and other components rather than purely stressing the GPU.
I have a new MSI Titan arriving Friday. Glad it’s performing should be awesome.
I love your channel. Hope to get the MacBook Pro 16” M4 Max
Mac Studio should be on my shopping list next year, Ultra should lead on all specifications
A new Macbook M4 to start my new business :) Hope to win
It would be very interresting to see at higher resolutions like 1440p and 4k. It's quite insane how far ARM have gone !
It’s amazing how fast you can put put info on these new models. I am getting a new macbook, was thinking about the M4 Pro 14core with 48gb ram. Debating if I should get the M4 Max 16core
I'm really excited about the prospect of getting my hands on Meta's new AR glasses! I've been following the development of AR technology for a while now, and I think it has the potential to revolutionize the way we interact with the world around us
You should compare 2k and 4k Gaming as well.
thanks for sharing ! another test with both top specs mac/win laptop but 16" would be better for similiar thermals conditions
Am hoping to get a MacBook M4 max for 3d animation
I subscribe it right now ❤🎉
Cant wait to see M4 ultra chip coming out❤
I’m on the hunt for some new tech upgrades - a new GPU for my PC and a MacBook. But I’m holding off on making any purchases until the Christmas sales come around.
Is the giveaway gonna be worldwide?
Great video! Apple switching to their own CPU was the best thing that could happen to MacBook
The M4 Macs are incredible. Planning to upgrade soon 😍
I’m tryna get a m3 max for editing n recording!
Nice comparison
Would like to get a 5G router next year😁
Waiting for my M4 Max to be delivered 🎉
Another interesting test you could do is to see the performance results of the processors with both laptops not connected to the mains (i.e. disconnecting the chargers), since the PCs are powered by their own internal battery, their performance is greatly reduced. And that would be the case if you were working in a place without electrical outlets, for example. However, with Apple's M-series ARM chips, that doesn't happen.
Waiting for 50 series then decide & hope I win 🙂
I have both and the Windows laptop with 4090 and regret I didn’t get a desktop. Fan noises are approach the Powermac G5. Hope it keeps working for years for the price.
Impressive comparison Matt.
I’m waiting for MacBook Air m4 I’ll upgrade it to 1TB ssd maybe ram as well, also I’ll build SFF gaming pc with ryzen x3d and higher mid range Gpu
Great comparison! Price may be higher at point of entry for the Macs but they really hold on to their value for much longer! I say this is a win for the Mac!
Hi, thanks for that test. In 2024 it's probaly too late for me, but in 2025 I am seriously considering a switch from my custom-built PC to Mac Studio Ultra, once released.
I'm determined to get this new M4 Max Macbook pro next year. I think it's going to change my life. It's like having a production studio in your backpack!
Hoping to get M4 mini this holiday … 😅
For a tech gift I would love an iPad for taking notes at school or a Macbook for programming. I am studying Software Engineering and having those things would help a lot indeed.
Really looking forward to build a PC the coming year. Currently working as a game developer but trying to get into graphics programming. Waiting for AMD, Intel or even Qualcomm to make something as good as the M-series chips. I know it's a long shot but I think they are taking steps in the right directions. Here's to hoping!
I'm looking forward to buy a Mac Mini M4 before 2024 ends. Been using a Macbook retina from 2012 for Davinci Resolve and would love to finaly make the transition to the new M chips. Great giveaway!