@@AskingTheRealQuestions I think it's more a "Which do you prefer" Kinda thing Like this: Do you like it as an accidental reference Or Do you like it as an intentional nod
If that's all they were after, it frankly would have worked better had they just given the identity to a new character. Someone unrelated to the Stantons. Like they were inspired to take on the role as a means to express their own frustration against society or petty problems. The persona becoming an outlet for more troubled individuals, showing how one's rage can so easily spread to others. Forming an unending, torturous cycle of vengeance that just ends up hurting everyone. I mean, this comic plainly has bigger problems. But still, it's something.
@@mediabaron2416 That's just what I was thinking! Some excellent Batman stories revolve around people donning a suit and going out for revenge. And Payback was a good example of that.
Literally Anyone: "You're afraid to actually end a real threat because you can't control your emotions, you're literally a spineless coward with an infinite budget and should have been put down years ago and replaced by someone who'll put your conveniently-returning enemies in caskets before Gotham gets worse."
A much better twist for the Payback in the comic would have been have it be one, or even a group of, the teenagers Payback "Helped", like the one who worked for the cranky jerk, or had an abusive dad or something. After Payback's visit, the adult started treating them better, but once Payback was revealed and arrested, the adult started getting *worse* because they no longer feared the reprisal Payback could have brought. Have it be a full mirror of how Batman Beyond operates, one on the cameras and feeding information like Bruce, one wearing the outfit to dish out the punishment like Terry, one who stalls and misdirects anyone getting close like Max did. In the end, they try to spring the OG Payback as thanks for the "Good" he did, but Kenny isn't into it anymore thanks to actual conversations with his father, and he helps Batman, maybe even by taking the whip back and fighting whoever is in the Payback suit directly.
@@ShyBiiteVT Gives me more Ghostface vibes, especially in the way that the people behind the mask aren't really good at what they do if you get them in a one-on-one fight.
If they wanted to keep it Dr. Santon, he could have blamed him for the trauma that his son went through in juvie and took up the mantle on his son's behalf. With his son being alive but undergoing therapy with his father. Seeing his son traumatized so badly because of him, Dr. Santon spends the day with the boy, then waits until his son is asleep and goes out as Payback to enact his revenge on Batman.
I like the subtle moment where Howard fights Batman and with the whip on the table he reaches, passes the weapon and grabs the phone to call the police. It was a huge tell that he wasn’t payback as he wasn’t trying to kill Batman for figuring out he was payback. He was subduing and trying to stop what he thought was an intruder.
7:42 Yeah Kenny's dad understood that he'd done what he did as Payback to help troubled kids in his own way so he'd spend more time with him so him disowning him and leaving him to rot in jail in the comic as well as Kenny killing himself just seems like trying to be edgy.
Seems like this would have been the perfect time to have a twist and let someone else be Payback instead. Maybe let it be one of the troubled kids from the dad's class that was furious at Batman for not letting Kenny get their revenge for them. Edit: Hell, if you really want to get emotional, make it Chelsea, Terry's troubled friend who is usually seen lashing out from her abusive and neglectful home life. She is very similar to Kenny, but we see what happens if you don't get the help you need.
As I previously mentioned in another comment, if they wanted to keep it Dr. Santon he could have blamed him for the trauma that his son went through in juvie and took up the mantle on his son's behalf. With his son being alive but undergoing therapy with his father. Seeing his son traumatized so badly because of him, Dr. Santon spends the day with the boy, then waits until his son is asleep and goes out as Payback to enact his revenge on Batman.
Honestly, he feels like he could be potential future ally to Beyond’s Batman. Not necessarily a member of the bat family, but an ally nonetheless once he’s older.
True, and i think he'd make a good one too He already has a strong desire to help, sure, it was so his dad wouldn't neglect him, but i feel it was also to remove some work related stress. Now, of course, his morale needs some work, and some maturing is needed, but i'm sure that's not a problem for long. Given his dad's trying to be there a bit more, and if he starts helping Batman in costume, he could also get some guidance from Terry, or even Bruce
@@raptordragonx7341I agree. Besides, he should hold some empathy towards the people his dad helps. Their problems are no different from his. He's doing them and his dad a favor. On the other hand, he probably does feel envious because they're drawing his dad's attention away from him.
@@kidprime6863 That does make sense, and are problems. But he's a kid, and as i said, some guidance from his father or Terry, or maybe even Bruce would most likely help.
Kenny’s circumstances reminded me of my own dad’s relationship with his father; he spend more time taking care of other kids and neglected to spend time with his own son, which led him to bad habits that may have affected his relationship with his own family, and myself.
Payback is one of those villains that reminds you of something about life: in trying to solve everyone's problems....you solve none. In fact, you may make them worse and affect others on a personal level. Also, while it's okay to imagine "getting even" over personal matters, they should just stay that: Imaginations. Because eventually you won't be helping. You'll just be suffocating to deal with and may make the problems worse. What the kid did may have shown a light on neglect, but it also may have painted his father in a negative light in the process. Sure, he could've done more and did learn it in the end....but the mess this leaves behind will be felt for years to come.
This is how I felt about the summary of that comic. The character assassination of Dr. Stanton was so wrong. But anyway, the character Payback was pretty good and having a character that touches on these smallr, messed up, interpersonal relationships is kinda neat
Close to how Anarky is usually portrayed. One of numerous vigilantes inspired by Batman but learning the wrong lessons. Someone that Terry could have become if he hadn't found Bruce.
It's interesting how Dr Santon compared to other parents in the show. When it shows his kid is the bad guy he blames himself and goes to his son. An constant theme in Batman beyond is the constant relattof family and how it effect them. Compare that to Willie wats dad. He stops half way to turn back to Batman to say " at least my kid isn't a wimp any more" ( or something along those lines). He cared more that his son was seen as a tough guy then the fact he went on a rampage with a 2 story robot. Then he never wrote it him or saw his son in jail. Then there's Chelsea Cunningham father. We don't really see much of him and her together but while it comes off she the spoiled kid who acts out it seem more like the father just doesn't want to deal with her at all in any form. At the " last resort " episode with the prison for kids Chelsea just walks past her dad when he goes to hug her. But he doesn't act shock or mad. He just give a look then straighten himself up like people are looking. I get the feeling she acts out to be seen cause her father doesn't see her.
Oof, that comic sounds rough, man. At least the Payback episode still holds up. I liked how it allowed Bill Fagerbakke to play against type and show his range. Also enjoyed the surprising, yet plausible twist, Bruce-Terry interactions, nod to Veronica Vreeland, therapy scenes, action sequences and other guests. Top-notch content. Happy new year, incidentally.
I honestly want to see you do a video on how youth is portrayed in the show. Talk about issues that were shown throughout the DCAU from BTAS, Static Shock and to Beyond. Showing how some of the youth still get used and taken advantage of. I always liked this episode about showing other teens struggles. The professor is all too real because I have met people who treat others better than their own family without reason.
Given that Kenny is clearly a young child with an underdeveloped frontal lobe, he doesn’t fully understand the consequences of his actions and I think that well he should be in trouble for what he did. I think the focus should be on rehabilitation and for his dad to be a better parent.
This is one of my favorite Batman Beyond episode. It made realise that just because someone doesn't break the law, it doesn't mean that they are a good person. I can relate to Terry when he's venting to Dr. Stanton about Bruce, as I've met people who've treated me like I wasn't good enough or constantly pointed out my mistakes. I also think Payback's design is very cool, as well as Payback's reveal at the end.
Such a great episode and villain. The twist of the big bad villain actually just being the little boy Kenny really got me when I first watched. It's quite tragic to see how his father's neglect drove Kenny to do something so dangerous and reckless, I always feel bad watching him cry and being led away in handcuffs. Glad it got Dr Stanton to finally realise what he was doing and to try and fix his relationship with his son. Gonna ignore that one comic because it's way too out of character to make any sense... 1:13 Also I never realised they shared a voice actor. That's some very clever deception, well done creators of Mask of the Phantasm!
This isn’t the first time in Batman Beyond that a parent turned their back on their child remember throughout Batman Beyond I’ve seen half the children in Gotham become killers, criminals, henchmen and attempted murderers
Payback sounds better as a one-shot villain. If it was a recurring villain, have it be different people each time. In the Champions RPG setting, there's a mystic suit of armor which finds its way to people wanting revenge. The suit ultimately kills the wearer and they have to accept that in order for the suit to work.
I’m always a fan of “the cobblers children have no shoes” stories. Like a marriage counselor who doesn’t know or blatantly ignores the fact that their significant other is cheating on them.
Honestly i’ve always had a soft spot for Payback, his cool design left an impact on me when i first saw his episode and a neat plot twist too, Plus Bill Faggerbakke voices him, Patrick Star Himself, Fun Fact:Anarky did appear in the DCAU in an issue Of the Batman Adventures comics.
At some pint you should just make a video on how many times dc comics disrespected the dcau because I feel the resentment in your voice every time you bring up non dcau comics. Payback is a good example of a one shot villain and a tragic one at this. All he wanted was his father's attention and he was willing to hurt others to get achieve his goals (even those most of them jerks). I like to think that Kenny got the support he needed and became a care worker and worked with his father in the youth centre. It would be a well deserved happy ending.
I feel like a story where Payback comes back a bit older and more mature and takes up being a hero rather than a villain would be pretty cool. He obviously has the brains and the skill so making him a anti-hero or a redeemed hero could be really interesting. Maybe as apart of a new hero team even.
I could argue that Dr. Stanton becoming Payback due to his own errors driving his son to greet death prematurely is in character, specially since is Bruce he who drives the doctor to be by his son's side: The thing that could drive him to not visit Kenny could be that his name and reputation was tarnished by Kenny's actions and the good doctor tried to distance himself from his son simply to maintain his clinic, to help his patients, he already has choose them over Kenny, he could do it again. Dr. Stanton could, easily, make the same mistake twice.
Matt as Robin is not far fetched. After all, Matt shares the same special DNA that Terry has, and Matt may behave like a normal kid, but he too lost his father just as Terry did. Now keeping Matt out of the Batman world is a great motivator for Terry, but I agree that it would need to be something big for Matt to become Robin, like say the death of their mother leaving no place to keep Matt except for keeping him in the Wayne Manor which would lead to Matt one way or another become Robin by discovering the Batman secret by accident or by necessity.
I always felt a sense of bitter sweet because I actually figured out who Payback was about half way through the episode and knew he was just a child wanting to spend time with his dad.
I like that Payback doesn't come back(ignoring the bad comic), as it shows Kenny probably did get help and if he was going to do something in the future he'd be an adult, where he probably can be a great help somewhere in some field. But I do wish he came back elsewhere. I think there's a lot to the character that could be used to contrast Batman(also I saw Beyond before Phantasm and I think Payback and his whip looks cooler). Like lets say in Caped Crusader we get Payback again, magic instead of tech though to fit the time period, how does that Batman deal with a neglected child like this? With a fairly low stakes version of himself?
Would've made more sense to take out the Dad letting the kid down in the comic, and for the new Payback to be the friend he'd looked up to. A personal hero's downfall coming in the form of turning into the sort of person the kid saw him as would've been a great twisted irony
I think it would make more sense if the new Payback was another one of the troubled kids from the center, who learned about Payback and was mad that they didn't get their revenge.
Definitely one of my favorite villains in the show The awesome design (just like you said, it reminded me of The Phantasm), motivations and the tragic conclusion I guess lots of people can identify themselves in Kenny, that's why this episode works very well And the comics really threw everything out of the window...
As good as the baddies of Beyond were, I feel they suffer from being compared with the rogue's gallery of Bruce, which is always a difficult thing to live up to given how they're arguably the best cast of baddies of any superhero ever ^^;
Beyond's baddies unironically tracked like how Bruce's rogues worked. They worked for THEM Bruce's rogues were reflections of him. Terry's were aspects or directed tied to him. Terry WAS Payback that's how he became Batman
A character like Payback would work better as a Red Hood type. As in, a manttle that is taken by various other people in search of "justice", but really for vendetta. The Payback persona would represent the impact that Kenny's actions had left behind. Hell, Kenny could be the discouraging repenant trying to stop these people. Yet another character waisted outside of their introduction.
Chelsea Cunningham would make a great Payback. Every time we see her in the show she's lashing out in one way or another because of a rough home life. A costume could be what puts her on the right path, or down one she can't turn back from...
@jordanloux3883 Good point! I imagine that the events with Dr. Wheeler's brainwashing facility, plus all that's happened at school could have pushed her too far.
"You fear what you can not control. You fear me because you aren't invincible! So if I'm immune to what's bringing you low? I'll fight till I burn. To fight now, my circuits are burning, as I stand here I'm learning: the light cowls and friends fear the power I hold! We stood together, defenders of man! Now here you stand before me with gun in your hand! If this is where we part under different commands? Know it's not the ending that I would have planned! Here I stand!!!" - - Zero (Inspired by paybacks laser whip reminding me of the Z saber.)
I really like how in the Payback episode you can see Bruce still has those Batman instincts in the elevator scene, stepping to avoid falling as well as using elevator controls to disrupt Payback's balance. Sure there's other episodes where we see his "Batman-itude" at play, such as the various scenes where he dispatches gangsters with his cane or notably the Inque episodes that regularly end up with him on the front line, but I always liked this one the most in this way (though Bruce and Max dealing with some Ts while they're looking for Terry comes at a close second).
You said in one of your previous Batman Beyond videos that tragic villains are less common in Batman Beyond, but I think Payback is definetly one of them.
Hey Serum Lake, shot in the dark: do you think your audience would appreciate a video about that failed new wave of DC heroes from just a short while back? I remember reading *_"Sideways,"_* and thinking it would be really fun, only for them to discontinue the line...
That’s a topic that’d interest me, but I don’t think my audience would be into it. Videos that are entirely comic-centric generally aren’t as popular as my animation videos, which is a shame!
@SerumLake I only ever got a hold of content on "Sideways." A friend of mine got his hands on some "Damage" content and seemed to like it. Although, a different angle to this subject has piqued my curiosity: No doubt anybody will pine for the pipe dream of their favorite character getting a movie or a cartoon series, and it's all clean fun to imagine, but if DC went whole hog on the "New Age of Heroes" and gave some of them cartoons, or maybe some sort of cameo in one of their big budget films, do you think that could have saved them from getting the axe? Imagine for me, would you kindly, the first time you really discovered Batman as a kid, and what made him so cool. I'd like to imagine a new generation of kids as well as their nostalgic parents sharing that feeling with new and exciting heroes.
The ending of the episode showed optimism how Kenny’s father was on a path of being a more present dad which you can interpret But the comics took a sharp turn into something darker
I think matt could work as robin, because depsite Terry's desire for him to be normal it might not be possible. Granted I think Robin could have been Max his black friend doign that.
Like Anarky and Payback, what if there is a troublesome kid who becomes a violent vigilante who wants to eradicate all parents in a brutal way because it thinks they are abusive, neglectful, selfish, manipulative monsters, and that children should be free from their tyranny ?
There’s something so poetic about the fact that this little vengeful kid picked PATRICK STAR as the voice(for his suit) that struck terror in Gotham 😂😂😂😭
payback's interesting cause he seems to be a unique take on the 'extremist super villain' who follows batman's example but goes too far (for example, Lock Up). In this case its not so much his methods but who he targets. Rather than attack criminals he just attacks...mildly shitty people. People who are dickheads but probably don't deserve to be struck by a laser whip capable of slicing through stone. not to mention the added twist in that he isn't even motivated by a genuine desire to help people, just a selfish need to have his dad to himself. I feel having payback come back in a few different ways could be fun. Either have kenny redeem himself and make payback more of a heroic figure, or have payback be a legacy character that different people become (like the shitty Long Payback except without having a kid commit suicide and have the neglectful dad take on the mantle for revenge when he was largely at fault)
Payback reminds me of Anarky in a couple ways -- specifically how Anarky was used in the Red Robin comic, which I was personally a fan of. It you ask me, it sounds like they could have given Payback the same treatment they did Red Robin's Anarky; rather then making him return as a villain and killing off one version of him in the same breath, they could have brought him on as an anti-villain, reformed and allied with Terry to do real good with his skills.
The Batman Beyond Comics (not the official tie-in ones) usual don't make much sense as continuations, but the writers drop the ball hard with the Payback character.
I am a pretty staunch capitalist but I always appreciated the multi-faceted critiques that the writers of Batman Beyond (and BTAS, though I’ve seen much less of it) are able to convey in an extremely sympathetic and relatively simple way; from work-life balance to the hamster-wheel of consumerism, the best episodes always leave me considering what sort of system could harness the human drive for innovation and competition with minimal government interference, while trading capitalism’s voracious consumption for a circular, ‘repair’ sort of economic system which simultaneously prevents corporate entitles from amassing too much power (whew!). Minds much greater than my own have grappled with that quandary, but it’s a testament to the show that I am repeatedly agitated into churning my little brain in the name of some sort of solution
Honestly if I was writing this I’d make Kenny the next Robin Beyond instead of Matt. It could be easily done with his father still abandoning him but Terry feeling bad for him after hearing about Kenny situation he’d come to visit him and help him through his time. He gets him a job at Wayne manor etc etc and he uses his own brilliant mind with the already available tech to make himself Robin to help.
On the topic of Mathew Mcginis being Roin I don't like it for being too obvious and silly for Terry to do that. But that being said Batman The White Knight did a better Robin Beyond idea by making Robin be a seperate hero who was inspired by the past boy wonders and having her be trained by Jason Todd too help more of a community hero. As for Main DC Payback I think they should've gone the Ghostface route by having him become an identity used by many men and women who wanted payback on others.
Payback in the comics could have been a kinda like Punisher ant-hero. And instead of the Father, could have been someone who became friends with Kenny during his sentence. Who probably had it worse them him, but instead of using his anger to hurt anyone, he focused more on people who deserved it. Using Kenny's old persona and making it his own.
Chelsea Cunningham, Terry's friend from school, would be a perfect Payback. She's always seen acting out because of her own neglectful and abusive home life, including getting sent to that abusive rehabilitation center in "The Last Resort." You could easily make a story where she just continues to spiral and gets locked up in the same facility as Kenny. There she learns about Payback and decides to take up the mantle when she gets out.
Honestly in the Matt thing? I kinda like the Robin idea with him wiry this idea in mind: it’s brotherly bonding. An older Matt teaming up with his big brother, making Gotham a better place in their father’s memory
Yes I was going to say about Anarky as I don’t know if it is a kid under the mask in Beware the Batman series and I thought the name Payback is a wasted name.
I don't think Anarky was a adolescent or child (he was supposed to be a standing for the Joker). But the name Payback was not "wasted." It was straight to the point. Because that was what he was doing
Do you think Payback will ever get proper treatment and return to the villain roster correctly; they wouldn't have to keep him a Batman villain and make him a villain that a different hero has to deal with? I also like idea making Payback a legacy character, a moniker that different people have taken on, some more heroic than other while others a bit more villainous, but always pretty antagonistic and with a propensity for taking things a bit too far. That way, when we get back to the Batman Beyond era (again) we could have a bit more context, Kenny (or whoever they decide for the next go around) inspired to take on the moniker after finding reports of someone doing what they are thinking of doing to make their family life a bit better by diminishing the work load of their parental figure.
Chelsea Cunningham, Terry's troubled classmate, would make a great Payback. Every appearance she had in the show involved her acting out for attention, normally because of her neglectful home life. She's basically a version of Kenny grown up that didn't get the help he needed.
honestly the batman beyond robin should've been either terry's girlfriend or his purple haired friend whose name i don't know, those are like the better ideas than jsut going with terry's brother because "he's a young boy like other robins", if we had to have someone from among terry's circle to become his robin
The comics could have just gone back to the original suspect - someone who had a childish demeanor and cared about Kenny, and would therefore be more likely to blame Batman. Or a brand new character. Maybe the kid who bullied Kenny and caused his su***de. Feeling guilty and lashing out at everyone but himself.
Always with those fancy lightwhips. One must wonder if the Phantasm was well known enough as a boogeyman in the DCAU era of Batman Beyond, which should explain the similar looks. 1:13: Not really, am one of those peeps who knew in advance Andrea Beaumont is the Phantasm in the first place. What better way for the true identity of a "burly, shady grim reaper" than Bruce Wayne's former beau. 2:08: Sorry, I sympathize with the guy. Has anyone seen how many superhero battles all over time and space end up damaging museums, ruins, and highrises? 2:31: Too obvious. Anyone can be a "manly and shady grim reaper", even a ten-year old girl who watches enough superhero fiction (magical girls included, if need be) and having a knack for prodigious smarts and enough tech-savvy. 2:40: Then again, there could be more than one Payback. 2:49: Personal experience with the Scarecrow? 3:04: But we never even get to see an older Veronica and her grown up daughter Bunny. No mention of Payback trying to scare old Bruce? That was priceless. 4:13: Gotta love that trope. Can imagine operatives wearing shielded Katarn clone commando armor, only to be revealed as mahou shoujo clones who haven't reached adulthood yet and aren't even tall enough to fit the entire suit... thankfully, certain custom improvements of the suits do help them in their duty. By the way, Anarky does appear once in the DCAU tie-in The Batman Adventures 19993 comics. I actually prefer Matt becoming the new Robin. Kid was just... so trivial in the bigger picture of the DCAU, and same with his mother and later sister-in-law Dana. At least make him do something very important so that the fans end up somewhat fond of the kid despite their shortcomings, not unlike Pop Harukaze in Ojamajo Doremi, Jim+Tim Possible in Kim Possible, and those kids in JLU's "Patriot Act". 6:12: Not entirely untrue though. It's 2025, and I don't see a real life Wakanda or New Mombasa yet. Ah, gotta like Kenny's dark fate and how his father donned the mantle. Such is "One Bad Day". 8:09: You'll be surprised on how many fathers can easily fail on good expectations and become worse over time. Trust me, judging from experience. 9:28: ...Does make for excellent stress relief. Luminus isn't much, but come on, a guy who weaponized a red sun, can do hardlight copies of himself, and quite possibly inspired Bruce Wayne to implement a safe stealth system for the Batman Beyond suit is a worthy topic indeed. Addendum: Interesting how Gargoyles' Broadway played Payback.
Queen red, can you please not provoke enemies? The guards are skill all recovering from last time, and it will take months for the least injured ones to heal evil a small amount.
Cool Character but I would have named changed Paybacks name to Dark Titan, I never expected the twist of Payback being Kenny's Father in the comic, I think The Comics Payback should have been Lewis (who was the red herring of Payback) instead of it being Dr. Stanton I think Lewis should have been Payback upon hearing of Kenny's Suicide, he blames Batman and Dr. Stanton for causing Kenny to end up in a youth prison
He has a good motive, just a terrible approach… Hurting/traumatizing kids is gonna double down on the help they need as is. Not to mention disturbing police officers basically just for attention, and the repair costs for everyone involved. Parents neglecting their own son/daughter always leads to extravagant actions and bad behavior changes. This episode shows that scenario extravagantly(dun dun dun), but it sinks in. Good learning outcomes, typical Batman stuff really.
It's so cruelly ironic. Dr. Stanton was so caught up in his job of helping these poor souls that he shirked his responsibilities as a father. He became no better than the people who wronged the very souls he's trying to help. If he had kept going, then he would've ended on his son's hit-list eventually. Payback may have done all of this to get his father's attention. But on the other hand, it seemed like he genuinely wanted to help the troubled youths out. Their problems were no different from his. He thought that by becoming Payback he was doing them all a favor. Thus, if he's successful, not only would he get his father's attention, but these people will be able to rebuild their lives. It's a win-win.
I agree, I didn't like that Terry's brother Matt is the new Robin. He's really a brat and doesn't deserve to be call Robin. What the comics did to Payback and how Dr. Stanton was betrayed was very stupid.
I wonder if him using a whip is an intentional nod to "lashing out" or if it was an accident and a laser whip is just cool
Both
@@xenoclast9347It was intentional and accidental?
Cool observation. Hard to say one way or the other.
It's like a Light Saber, but in a chain whip sense.
@@AskingTheRealQuestions I think it's more a "Which do you prefer" Kinda thing
Like this:
Do you like it as an accidental reference
Or
Do you like it as an intentional nod
That comic seems more interested in doing another ‘the person in the suit isn’t who you the audience expected’ twist over it being in character
Agreed.
If that's all they were after, it frankly would have worked better had they just given the identity to a new character. Someone unrelated to the Stantons. Like they were inspired to take on the role as a means to express their own frustration against society or petty problems. The persona becoming an outlet for more troubled individuals, showing how one's rage can so easily spread to others. Forming an unending, torturous cycle of vengeance that just ends up hurting everyone.
I mean, this comic plainly has bigger problems. But still, it's something.
It feels like the maker of the comics didn't even watched the show and only had an vaguely description of the plot from a third person.
@@mediabaron2416 That's just what I was thinking! Some excellent Batman stories revolve around people donning a suit and going out for revenge. And Payback was a good example of that.
Bruce: "Who are you?"
Payback: "Your worst nightmare"
Bruce: "You have no ideas what my nightmares are like"
That was a hard line. So many good one liners in this show.
@@leithaziz2716 Payback's lines, if paid attention to, give away his age. He called Bruce a mean old man.
@@kimeraclan3135Or the way he mocked that girl's cheating boyfriend. His tone sounded childish.
Literally Anyone: "You're afraid to actually end a real threat because you can't control your emotions, you're literally a spineless coward with an infinite budget and should have been put down years ago and replaced by someone who'll put your conveniently-returning enemies in caskets before Gotham gets worse."
@@elijahherstal776 what a yapfest
A much better twist for the Payback in the comic would have been have it be one, or even a group of, the teenagers Payback "Helped", like the one who worked for the cranky jerk, or had an abusive dad or something. After Payback's visit, the adult started treating them better, but once Payback was revealed and arrested, the adult started getting *worse* because they no longer feared the reprisal Payback could have brought.
Have it be a full mirror of how Batman Beyond operates, one on the cameras and feeding information like Bruce, one wearing the outfit to dish out the punishment like Terry, one who stalls and misdirects anyone getting close like Max did.
In the end, they try to spring the OG Payback as thanks for the "Good" he did, but Kenny isn't into it anymore thanks to actual conversations with his father, and he helps Batman, maybe even by taking the whip back and fighting whoever is in the Payback suit directly.
Now that's a good twist. Would have been a thematic way to do it.
Payback becomes DC's "Ghostface" each Payback is overall different except the look and the weapon
Sounds a lot like the cult of Jigsaw from the Saw movies.
@@ShyBiiteVT Gives me more Ghostface vibes, especially in the way that the people behind the mask aren't really good at what they do if you get them in a one-on-one fight.
If they wanted to keep it Dr. Santon, he could have blamed him for the trauma that his son went through in juvie and took up the mantle on his son's behalf. With his son being alive but undergoing therapy with his father. Seeing his son traumatized so badly because of him, Dr. Santon spends the day with the boy, then waits until his son is asleep and goes out as Payback to enact his revenge on Batman.
I like the subtle moment where Howard fights Batman and with the whip on the table he reaches, passes the weapon and grabs the phone to call the police. It was a huge tell that he wasn’t payback as he wasn’t trying to kill Batman for figuring out he was payback. He was subduing and trying to stop what he thought was an intruder.
7:42 Yeah Kenny's dad understood that he'd done what he did as Payback to help troubled kids in his own way so he'd spend more time with him so him disowning him and leaving him to rot in jail in the comic as well as Kenny killing himself just seems like trying to be edgy.
Seems like this would have been the perfect time to have a twist and let someone else be Payback instead. Maybe let it be one of the troubled kids from the dad's class that was furious at Batman for not letting Kenny get their revenge for them.
Edit: Hell, if you really want to get emotional, make it Chelsea, Terry's troubled friend who is usually seen lashing out from her abusive and neglectful home life. She is very similar to Kenny, but we see what happens if you don't get the help you need.
As I previously mentioned in another comment, if they wanted to keep it Dr. Santon he could have blamed him for the trauma that his son went through in juvie and took up the mantle on his son's behalf. With his son being alive but undergoing therapy with his father. Seeing his son traumatized so badly because of him, Dr. Santon spends the day with the boy, then waits until his son is asleep and goes out as Payback to enact his revenge on Batman.
Honestly, he feels like he could be potential future ally to Beyond’s Batman. Not necessarily a member of the bat family, but an ally nonetheless once he’s older.
yeah i feel that'd be a fun way to bring the chracter back, have him be redeemed once he's a little older and help batman
Seems like one of Batman's more redeemable villains.
True, and i think he'd make a good one too
He already has a strong desire to help, sure, it was so his dad wouldn't neglect him, but i feel it was also to remove some work related stress.
Now, of course, his morale needs some work, and some maturing is needed, but i'm sure that's not a problem for long.
Given his dad's trying to be there a bit more, and if he starts helping Batman in costume, he could also get some guidance from Terry, or even Bruce
@@raptordragonx7341I agree. Besides, he should hold some empathy towards the people his dad helps. Their problems are no different from his. He's doing them and his dad a favor.
On the other hand, he probably does feel envious because they're drawing his dad's attention away from him.
@@kidprime6863 That does make sense, and are problems.
But he's a kid, and as i said, some guidance from his father or Terry, or maybe even Bruce would most likely help.
Kenny’s circumstances reminded me of my own dad’s relationship with his father; he spend more time taking care of other kids and neglected to spend time with his own son, which led him to bad habits that may have affected his relationship with his own family, and myself.
@@jasonpark1987 Hope your old man is doing better! And I'm impressed how Payback reflects real world issues.
he passed away years ago. I forgot to mention that.
@@jasonpark1987 Oh! Well then, rest in peace to the man, buddy!
Payback is one of those villains that reminds you of something about life: in trying to solve everyone's problems....you solve none. In fact, you may make them worse and affect others on a personal level.
Also, while it's okay to imagine "getting even" over personal matters, they should just stay that: Imaginations. Because eventually you won't be helping. You'll just be suffocating to deal with and may make the problems worse.
What the kid did may have shown a light on neglect, but it also may have painted his father in a negative light in the process. Sure, he could've done more and did learn it in the end....but the mess this leaves behind will be felt for years to come.
Psa much?
@@tayojones9460 The show had an entire episode about the dangers of steroids. They LOVE PSAs
This is how I felt about the summary of that comic. The character assassination of Dr. Stanton was so wrong.
But anyway, the character Payback was pretty good and having a character that touches on these smallr, messed up, interpersonal relationships is kinda neat
Close to how Anarky is usually portrayed. One of numerous vigilantes inspired by Batman but learning the wrong lessons. Someone that Terry could have become if he hadn't found Bruce.
It's interesting how Dr Santon compared to other parents in the show. When it shows his kid is the bad guy he blames himself and goes to his son. An constant theme in Batman beyond is the constant relattof family and how it effect them.
Compare that to Willie wats dad. He stops half way to turn back to Batman to say " at least my kid isn't a wimp any more" ( or something along those lines). He cared more that his son was seen as a tough guy then the fact he went on a rampage with a 2 story robot. Then he never wrote it him or saw his son in jail.
Then there's Chelsea Cunningham father. We don't really see much of him and her together but while it comes off she the spoiled kid who acts out it seem more like the father just doesn't want to deal with her at all in any form. At the " last resort " episode with the prison for kids Chelsea just walks past her dad when he goes to hug her. But he doesn't act shock or mad. He just give a look then straighten himself up like people are looking. I get the feeling she acts out to be seen cause her father doesn't see her.
I can't believe this vengeful vigilante was voiced by Bill Fagerbakke, the VA of Patrick the Star
He’s had more roles than just Patrick. He voiced Broadway in Gargoyles and Bulkhead in Transformers: Animated.
@@TF2Fan101 Savage Opress in Star Wars The Clone Wars
@@kendi5391 That's Clancy Brown.
Oof, that comic sounds rough, man. At least the Payback episode still holds up. I liked how it allowed Bill Fagerbakke to play against type and show his range. Also enjoyed the surprising, yet plausible twist, Bruce-Terry interactions, nod to Veronica Vreeland, therapy scenes, action sequences and other guests. Top-notch content. Happy new year, incidentally.
Happy new year to you too
Watch Gargoyles and Transformers: Animated. Bill voices characters in both.
Poor Veronica. Whenever she tries to
throw a party, some supervillain shows up to make trouble. It’s like tradition at this point.
I honestly want to see you do a video on how youth is portrayed in the show. Talk about issues that were shown throughout the DCAU from BTAS, Static Shock and to Beyond. Showing how some of the youth still get used and taken advantage of.
I always liked this episode about showing other teens struggles. The professor is all too real because I have met people who treat others better than their own family without reason.
Exactly. That was one of the many themes in the show. I'm surprised that didn't get brought up that much
That lightsaber whip is a sick weapon
A lightsaber anything is a sick weapon
Agreed.
It was pretty cool
@@HappyAxolotl24 true
Indeed
Given that Kenny is clearly a young child with an underdeveloped frontal lobe, he doesn’t fully understand the consequences of his actions and I think that well he should be in trouble for what he did. I think the focus should be on rehabilitation and for his dad to be a better parent.
Note that Anarky didn't appear in the Batman shows, but he did in-fact make a appearance in the Arkham Video-games.
This is one of my favorite Batman Beyond episode. It made realise that just because someone doesn't break the law, it doesn't mean that they are a good person. I can relate to Terry when he's venting to Dr. Stanton about Bruce, as I've met people who've treated me like I wasn't good enough or constantly pointed out my mistakes. I also think Payback's design is very cool, as well as Payback's reveal at the end.
Such a great episode and villain. The twist of the big bad villain actually just being the little boy Kenny really got me when I first watched. It's quite tragic to see how his father's neglect drove Kenny to do something so dangerous and reckless, I always feel bad watching him cry and being led away in handcuffs. Glad it got Dr Stanton to finally realise what he was doing and to try and fix his relationship with his son. Gonna ignore that one comic because it's way too out of character to make any sense...
1:13 Also I never realised they shared a voice actor. That's some very clever deception, well done creators of Mask of the Phantasm!
This isn’t the first time in Batman Beyond that a parent turned their back on their child remember throughout Batman Beyond I’ve seen half the children in Gotham become killers, criminals, henchmen and attempted murderers
Man...hard to believe I counted for a whole 6% in the Luminous vote.
Payback sounds better as a one-shot villain. If it was a recurring villain, have it be different people each time. In the Champions RPG setting, there's a mystic suit of armor which finds its way to people wanting revenge. The suit ultimately kills the wearer and they have to accept that in order for the suit to work.
A laser whip is such a Badass Weapon.
I WANT PAYBACK!
Bruce: How Much?
ALL OF IT!!!!
I feel some sympathy for villain 0:53 perfect character comparison
I’m always a fan of “the cobblers children have no shoes” stories. Like a marriage counselor who doesn’t know or blatantly ignores the fact that their significant other is cheating on them.
Honestly i’ve always had a soft spot for Payback, his cool design left an impact on me when i first saw his episode and a neat plot twist too, Plus Bill Faggerbakke voices him, Patrick Star Himself, Fun Fact:Anarky did appear in the DCAU in an issue Of the Batman Adventures comics.
At some pint you should just make a video on how many times dc comics disrespected the dcau because I feel the resentment in your voice every time you bring up non dcau comics.
Payback is a good example of a one shot villain and a tragic one at this. All he wanted was his father's attention and he was willing to hurt others to get achieve his goals (even those most of them jerks). I like to think that Kenny got the support he needed and became a care worker and worked with his father in the youth centre. It would be a well deserved happy ending.
My favorite Batman Beyond villain. I felt he connected with me, because he was a kid just like myself at the time.
I was in my adolescence, but I definitely related to pay back. Because God knows I wanted to get payback on so many people
I feel like a story where Payback comes back a bit older and more mature and takes up being a hero rather than a villain would be pretty cool. He obviously has the brains and the skill so making him a anti-hero or a redeemed hero could be really interesting. Maybe as apart of a new hero team even.
This is one of my favorite episodes, probably because I also wanted to help people at the groups I used to go to.
I could argue that Dr. Stanton becoming Payback due to his own errors driving his son to greet death prematurely is in character, specially since is Bruce he who drives the doctor to be by his son's side:
The thing that could drive him to not visit Kenny could be that his name and reputation was tarnished by Kenny's actions and the good doctor tried to distance himself from his son simply to maintain his clinic, to help his patients, he already has choose them over Kenny, he could do it again.
Dr. Stanton could, easily, make the same mistake twice.
Matt as Robin is not far fetched. After all, Matt shares the same special DNA that Terry has, and Matt may behave like a normal kid, but he too lost his father just as Terry did. Now keeping Matt out of the Batman world is a great motivator for Terry, but I agree that it would need to be something big for Matt to become Robin, like say the death of their mother leaving no place to keep Matt except for keeping him in the Wayne Manor which would lead to Matt one way or another become Robin by discovering the Batman secret by accident or by necessity.
Nice to see Terry and Melanie somewhat mending fences though; despite the comic botching Payback.
I thought of Anarky when heard of teenagers
That Laser whip looks s awesome
I always felt a sense of bitter sweet because I actually figured out who Payback was about half way through the episode and knew he was just a child wanting to spend time with his dad.
Fun fact : payback voice actor also voices patrick star
lightsaber whip is the weapon of Whiplash from Marvel
No, it's from Star Wars.
@@kendi5391You're thinking of the Light-Whip
I like that Payback doesn't come back(ignoring the bad comic), as it shows Kenny probably did get help and if he was going to do something in the future he'd be an adult, where he probably can be a great help somewhere in some field.
But I do wish he came back elsewhere. I think there's a lot to the character that could be used to contrast Batman(also I saw Beyond before Phantasm and I think Payback and his whip looks cooler). Like lets say in Caped Crusader we get Payback again, magic instead of tech though to fit the time period, how does that Batman deal with a neglected child like this? With a fairly low stakes version of himself?
Would've made more sense to take out the Dad letting the kid down in the comic, and for the new Payback to be the friend he'd looked up to. A personal hero's downfall coming in the form of turning into the sort of person the kid saw him as would've been a great twisted irony
I think it would make more sense if the new Payback was another one of the troubled kids from the center, who learned about Payback and was mad that they didn't get their revenge.
Definitely one of my favorite villains in the show
The awesome design (just like you said, it reminded me of The Phantasm), motivations and the tragic conclusion
I guess lots of people can identify themselves in Kenny, that's why this episode works very well
And the comics really threw everything out of the window...
Great review as always
As good as the baddies of Beyond were, I feel they suffer from being compared with the rogue's gallery of Bruce, which is always a difficult thing to live up to given how they're arguably the best cast of baddies of any superhero ever ^^;
Beyond's baddies unironically tracked like how Bruce's rogues worked. They worked for THEM Bruce's rogues were reflections of him. Terry's were aspects or directed tied to him. Terry WAS Payback that's how he became Batman
A character like Payback would work better as a Red Hood type. As in, a manttle that is taken by various other people in search of "justice", but really for vendetta. The Payback persona would represent the impact that Kenny's actions had left behind. Hell, Kenny could be the discouraging repenant trying to stop these people. Yet another character waisted outside of their introduction.
Chelsea Cunningham would make a great Payback. Every time we see her in the show she's lashing out in one way or another because of a rough home life. A costume could be what puts her on the right path, or down one she can't turn back from...
@jordanloux3883 Good point! I imagine that the events with Dr. Wheeler's brainwashing facility, plus all that's happened at school could have pushed her too far.
"You fear what you can not control. You fear me because you aren't invincible! So if I'm immune to what's bringing you low? I'll fight till I burn. To fight now, my circuits are burning, as I stand here I'm learning: the light cowls and friends fear the power I hold! We stood together, defenders of man! Now here you stand before me with gun in your hand! If this is where we part under different commands? Know it's not the ending that I would have planned! Here I stand!!!" - - Zero (Inspired by paybacks laser whip reminding me of the Z saber.)
One thing I’ll give Batman Beyond is the striking designs for the villains
Ahh Payback! That time Terry whooped up a Toddler and it got by the Censors! Beyond was just that kinda perfect edge BTAS wasn't allowed!
Payback conceptually only really works well as a one off villain. Not a bad character by any means, but has no real reason to show up ever again.
I really like how in the Payback episode you can see Bruce still has those Batman instincts in the elevator scene, stepping to avoid falling as well as using elevator controls to disrupt Payback's balance. Sure there's other episodes where we see his "Batman-itude" at play, such as the various scenes where he dispatches gangsters with his cane or notably the Inque episodes that regularly end up with him on the front line, but I always liked this one the most in this way (though Bruce and Max dealing with some Ts while they're looking for Terry comes at a close second).
You said in one of your previous Batman Beyond videos that tragic villains are less common in Batman Beyond, but I think Payback is definetly one of them.
Yeah I’d say so too
4:34 "I've done a little reading about Anarchy myself." He says with a copy of V for Vendetta next to him on the shelf.
5:34 Ironically, Kenny seems like a better fit for Robin Beyond
Hm.....you're not wrong
Hey Serum Lake, shot in the dark: do you think your audience would appreciate a video about that failed new wave of DC heroes from just a short while back?
I remember reading *_"Sideways,"_* and thinking it would be really fun, only for them to discontinue the line...
That’s a topic that’d interest me, but I don’t think my audience would be into it. Videos that are entirely comic-centric generally aren’t as popular as my animation videos, which is a shame!
@SerumLake
I only ever got a hold of content on "Sideways." A friend of mine got his hands on some "Damage" content and seemed to like it.
Although, a different angle to this subject has piqued my curiosity:
No doubt anybody will pine for the pipe dream of their favorite character getting a movie or a cartoon series, and it's all clean fun to imagine, but if DC went whole hog on the "New Age of Heroes" and gave some of them cartoons, or maybe some sort of cameo in one of their big budget films, do you think that could have saved them from getting the axe?
Imagine for me, would you kindly, the first time you really discovered Batman as a kid, and what made him so cool. I'd like to imagine a new generation of kids as well as their nostalgic parents sharing that feeling with new and exciting heroes.
I still want to see another version of Payback casue all in all, he's a really good character to me
It took me a while to getting used hearing Patrick's voice from someone other than a dumb starfish.
The ending of the episode showed optimism how Kenny’s father was on a path of being a more present dad which you can interpret
But the comics took a sharp turn into something darker
anyone else notice the V for Vendetta book on the shelf in the Anarchy panel?
I think matt could work as robin, because depsite Terry's desire for him to be normal it might not be possible.
Granted I think Robin could have been Max his black friend doign that.
Batman Beyond is awesome
Thanks for the video.
Like Anarky and Payback, what if there is a troublesome kid who becomes a violent vigilante who wants to eradicate all parents in a brutal way because it thinks they are abusive, neglectful, selfish, manipulative monsters, and that children should be free from their tyranny ?
There’s something so poetic about the fact that this little vengeful kid picked PATRICK STAR as the voice(for his suit) that struck terror in Gotham 😂😂😂😭
"Who are you?"
"FINLAND!"
I wonder if Anarky could fit in the DCAU. The way he looks could fit in the New Batman adventures or Beyond.
Great video.
Thanks for watching it!
payback's interesting cause he seems to be a unique take on the 'extremist super villain' who follows batman's example but goes too far (for example, Lock Up). In this case its not so much his methods but who he targets. Rather than attack criminals he just attacks...mildly shitty people. People who are dickheads but probably don't deserve to be struck by a laser whip capable of slicing through stone.
not to mention the added twist in that he isn't even motivated by a genuine desire to help people, just a selfish need to have his dad to himself.
I feel having payback come back in a few different ways could be fun. Either have kenny redeem himself and make payback more of a heroic figure, or have payback be a legacy character that different people become (like the shitty Long Payback except without having a kid commit suicide and have the neglectful dad take on the mantle for revenge when he was largely at fault)
Happy New Year
Payback reminds me of Anarky in a couple ways -- specifically how Anarky was used in the Red Robin comic, which I was personally a fan of. It you ask me, it sounds like they could have given Payback the same treatment they did Red Robin's Anarky; rather then making him return as a villain and killing off one version of him in the same breath, they could have brought him on as an anti-villain, reformed and allied with Terry to do real good with his skills.
Is funny voice by Patrick star voice actor
The Batman Beyond Comics (not the official tie-in ones) usual don't make much sense as continuations, but the writers drop the ball hard with the Payback character.
I am a pretty staunch capitalist but I always appreciated the multi-faceted critiques that the writers of Batman Beyond (and BTAS, though I’ve seen much less of it) are able to convey in an extremely sympathetic and relatively simple way; from work-life balance to the hamster-wheel of consumerism, the best episodes always leave me considering what sort of system could harness the human drive for innovation and competition with minimal government interference, while trading capitalism’s voracious consumption for a circular, ‘repair’ sort of economic system which simultaneously prevents corporate entitles from amassing too much power (whew!). Minds much greater than my own have grappled with that quandary, but it’s a testament to the show that I am repeatedly agitated into churning my little brain in the name of some sort of solution
"Elder Batman" please. Batman Sr.
Honestly if I was writing this I’d make Kenny the next Robin Beyond instead of Matt. It could be easily done with his father still abandoning him but Terry feeling bad for him after hearing about Kenny situation he’d come to visit him and help him through his time. He gets him a job at Wayne manor etc etc and he uses his own brilliant mind with the already available tech to make himself Robin to help.
On the topic of Mathew Mcginis being Roin I don't like it for being too obvious and silly for Terry to do that.
But that being said Batman The White Knight did a better Robin Beyond idea by making Robin be a seperate hero who was inspired by the past boy wonders and having her be trained by Jason Todd too help more of a community hero.
As for Main DC Payback I think they should've gone the Ghostface route by having him become an identity used by many men and women who wanted payback on others.
Payback in the comics could have been a kinda like Punisher ant-hero.
And instead of the Father, could have been someone who became friends with Kenny during his sentence. Who probably had it worse them him, but instead of using his anger to hurt anyone, he focused more on people who deserved it. Using Kenny's old persona and making it his own.
Chelsea Cunningham, Terry's friend from school, would be a perfect Payback. She's always seen acting out because of her own neglectful and abusive home life, including getting sent to that abusive rehabilitation center in "The Last Resort." You could easily make a story where she just continues to spiral and gets locked up in the same facility as Kenny. There she learns about Payback and decides to take up the mantle when she gets out.
Fun fact: payback’s voice actor also voice Patrick the star from SpongeBob SquarePants.
I remembered this episode and is my me the iron Man villain riplash just the fighting style and those weapons
I'm still waiting for my favorite "Batman Beyond" single appearance villain: Armory.
I was not expecting that second payback story lol
Honestly in the Matt thing? I kinda like the Robin idea with him wiry this idea in mind: it’s brotherly bonding. An older Matt teaming up with his big brother, making Gotham a better place in their father’s memory
I always thought max was going to end up as Robin. Especially since she said something like “you better not call me Robin”
Yes I was going to say about Anarky as I don’t know if it is a kid under the mask in Beware the Batman series and I thought the name Payback is a wasted name.
I don't think Anarky was a adolescent or child (he was supposed to be a standing for the Joker). But the name Payback was not "wasted."
It was straight to the point. Because that was what he was doing
Dope
“Oh My God They Killed Kenny!”
I'd love to see you make a video about matt mcginnis!!
Do you think Payback will ever get proper treatment and return to the villain roster correctly; they wouldn't have to keep him a Batman villain and make him a villain that a different hero has to deal with? I also like idea making Payback a legacy character, a moniker that different people have taken on, some more heroic than other while others a bit more villainous, but always pretty antagonistic and with a propensity for taking things a bit too far. That way, when we get back to the Batman Beyond era (again) we could have a bit more context, Kenny (or whoever they decide for the next go around) inspired to take on the moniker after finding reports of someone doing what they are thinking of doing to make their family life a bit better by diminishing the work load of their parental figure.
Chelsea Cunningham, Terry's troubled classmate, would make a great Payback. Every appearance she had in the show involved her acting out for attention, normally because of her neglectful home life. She's basically a version of Kenny grown up that didn't get the help he needed.
Do you think Kenny would be a more appropriate candidate to be Robin beyond?
honestly the batman beyond robin should've been either terry's girlfriend or his purple haired friend whose name i don't know, those are like the better ideas than jsut going with terry's brother because "he's a young boy like other robins", if we had to have someone from among terry's circle to become his robin
The comics could have just gone back to the original suspect - someone who had a childish demeanor and cared about Kenny, and would therefore be more likely to blame Batman.
Or a brand new character. Maybe the kid who bullied Kenny and caused his su***de. Feeling guilty and lashing out at everyone but himself.
Always with those fancy lightwhips.
One must wonder if the Phantasm was well known enough as a boogeyman in the DCAU era of Batman Beyond, which should explain the similar looks.
1:13: Not really, am one of those peeps who knew in advance Andrea Beaumont is the Phantasm in the first place. What better way for the true identity of a "burly, shady grim reaper" than Bruce Wayne's former beau.
2:08: Sorry, I sympathize with the guy. Has anyone seen how many superhero battles all over time and space end up damaging museums, ruins, and highrises?
2:31: Too obvious. Anyone can be a "manly and shady grim reaper", even a ten-year old girl who watches enough superhero fiction (magical girls included, if need be) and having a knack for prodigious smarts and enough tech-savvy.
2:40: Then again, there could be more than one Payback.
2:49: Personal experience with the Scarecrow?
3:04: But we never even get to see an older Veronica and her grown up daughter Bunny.
No mention of Payback trying to scare old Bruce? That was priceless.
4:13: Gotta love that trope. Can imagine operatives wearing shielded Katarn clone commando armor, only to be revealed as mahou shoujo clones who haven't reached adulthood yet and aren't even tall enough to fit the entire suit... thankfully, certain custom improvements of the suits do help them in their duty.
By the way, Anarky does appear once in the DCAU tie-in The Batman Adventures 19993 comics.
I actually prefer Matt becoming the new Robin. Kid was just... so trivial in the bigger picture of the DCAU, and same with his mother and later sister-in-law Dana. At least make him do something very important so that the fans end up somewhat fond of the kid despite their shortcomings, not unlike Pop Harukaze in Ojamajo Doremi, Jim+Tim Possible in Kim Possible, and those kids in JLU's "Patriot Act".
6:12: Not entirely untrue though. It's 2025, and I don't see a real life Wakanda or New Mombasa yet.
Ah, gotta like Kenny's dark fate and how his father donned the mantle. Such is "One Bad Day".
8:09: You'll be surprised on how many fathers can easily fail on good expectations and become worse over time. Trust me, judging from experience.
9:28: ...Does make for excellent stress relief.
Luminus isn't much, but come on, a guy who weaponized a red sun, can do hardlight copies of himself, and quite possibly inspired Bruce Wayne to implement a safe stealth system for the Batman Beyond suit is a worthy topic indeed.
Addendum: Interesting how Gargoyles' Broadway played Payback.
Maxine should have been Robin or at the very least, an Oracle type character.
Queen red, can you please not provoke enemies? The guards are skill all recovering from last time, and it will take months for the least injured ones to heal evil a small amount.
Cool Character but I would have named changed Paybacks name to Dark Titan, I never expected the twist of Payback being Kenny's Father in the comic, I think The Comics Payback should have been Lewis (who was the red herring of Payback) instead of it being Dr. Stanton I think Lewis should have been Payback upon hearing of Kenny's Suicide, he blames Batman and Dr. Stanton for causing Kenny to end up in a youth prison
I'm the only one who has strong negative feelings about the Batman Beyond comics after the New 52 reboot?
No, I didn’t enjoy them either. Volume 1 and 2 that were written by Hilary J Bader are fine, but the others, eh, not for me.
He has a good motive, just a terrible approach… Hurting/traumatizing kids is gonna double down on the help they need as is. Not to mention disturbing police officers basically just for attention, and the repair costs for everyone involved.
Parents neglecting their own son/daughter always leads to extravagant actions and bad behavior changes.
This episode shows that scenario extravagantly(dun dun dun), but it sinks in. Good learning outcomes, typical Batman stuff really.
It's so cruelly ironic. Dr. Stanton was so caught up in his job of helping these poor souls that he shirked his responsibilities as a father. He became no better than the people who wronged the very souls he's trying to help. If he had kept going, then he would've ended on his son's hit-list eventually.
Payback may have done all of this to get his father's attention. But on the other hand, it seemed like he genuinely wanted to help the troubled youths out. Their problems were no different from his. He thought that by becoming Payback he was doing them all a favor.
Thus, if he's successful, not only would he get his father's attention, but these people will be able to rebuild their lives. It's a win-win.
I can't believe they did that to comic Payback. Did the comic writer actually even watched the episode?
Got a cool costume.
I agree, I didn't like that Terry's brother Matt is the new Robin. He's really a brat and doesn't deserve to be call Robin.
What the comics did to Payback and how Dr. Stanton was betrayed was very stupid.