He’s simply the most visually appealing of the smt protagonists. The full body tattoos(or demon markings), the fact he goes the majority of the game punching everything, he’s essentially a wrestler on mega steroids. He solves most of his in game problems by just throwing himself at the problem until he eventually perseveres. His sheer determination to “hit it till it dies” is what makes him an appealing and interesting protagonist, but it doesn’t necessarily make him the strongest. People will overhype his power because they love him as a character, and if there’s anything appealing about smt games it’s how it makes you feel a sense of freedom, that you’re playthrough is your own story, and it’s apparent in the fact that no one will have the exact same experience. Everyone is gonna have different demons, different skills, different tactics they used to overcome the games challenges. So people will believe demi fiend is the strongest simply because he’s the coolest protagonist of the bunch.
I'm like at least sure that 50% of people who played Nocturne run a Focus, Pierce, Freikugel build on Demi-fiend lmao Just like Concentrate Antitachlon/Megidalaon Flynn and Charge Riot Gun/Akasha Arts Nanashi are common builds from a similar experience but yea SMT really do feel free for team builds
Demifiend's popularity really overshadows the other Megaten MCs! And like, even in a series where Silent MCs are the norm. He feels far more like a meassuring stick to be used as fodder in VS debates and nothing else. A lot of the time. Raidou is also a Silent MC, yet him. And his story are a hell of a lot more lively! (Well, he is a Silent MC unless you count his manga version. Which absolutely rules by the way!)
Anyone who thinks his Demifiend is the strongest is kind dumb. Everything he has done, other protagonists have also pulled off, and some have even better shbowings. Particularly notable is Nahobino, who perceived Lucifers true form. This is noted in game to only be possible for people who have reached a specific level of power, and he was the only protagonist to do so.
The point about demi fiend not being one to hold back is a good point, and during the fight between demi fiend and Nahobino if demi fiend wins he kills Nahobino but if Nahobino wins he spares demi fiend. Would this suggest that Nahobino is holding back? Because Nahobino was able to make demi fiend kneel but chose not to finish him.
You can spare someone's life and not hold back I do think nahobino is stronger than demi fiend but that is not a good reason to prove he is stronger than demi fiend
That's not at all what I was arguing. I was saying Aogami can literally sxan the threat level of demons and didn’t view Demi-fiend as anything beyond the typical boss. No clue how you misinterpreted it that bad.
As the adversary chadtan fought the fraud the king of chaos he began to charge up his megido ark Demi fiend shrunk back in fear than Satan said "stand proud Demi fiend you are strong"
Idk y people overhype Demi fiend strength, yes he’s strong but he’s far from the peak and pinnacle of Megaten protagonist power like -Nahobino is stronger than him -Flynn and Nanashi( especially in the massacre ending) are stronger than him -Hideto from Megaten 2 is is stronger than him -Raidou is stronger than him( he literally almost killed him) - Tadano (especially with the cosmic egg) from Strange journey is stronger than him - Both Devil Survivor protags Kazuya(or Abel) and Hibiki are stronger than him The list goes on bruh
I think it's cause Nocturne was a lot of people's first SMT and then how hard both of his superboss fights are made this weird misconception that he's the strongest.
Yo bro do you remember an account named markpratt8048 this is my alt account and im just gonna say this the fact that you can scale any version of sonic exe and demi fiend to boundless and so many people are still denial on how powerful they are is crazy 💀
Here is something else to note about demi fiend in smt v(specifically smt v vengeance)demi fiend is recruitable and not only does he have all the same immunities from masakados but gaea rage is not as powerful as it is in his boss fight
Also the game makes it clear he wasn’t holding back during his boss fight since Pixie says Demi-fiend was impressed by your strength and wants to join you
I never got to finish Nocturne, Random encounters just killed my interest. But I'm currently playing V and loving it. So far the strongest ones in the verse I would say are Nanashi and Nahobino are easily the strongest. Feel free to argue though
It's all really hard to discuss due to gameplay restrictions and e.t.c. so the only thing we can truly believe is what lore tells us. So, Demi-Fiend is so far the only man to become not only a true demon but Lucifer's warlord and conqueror of worlds. If Lucifer saw potential in any other protagonist, surely he would make them warlords as well but he didn't. Demi-Fiend in DDS is implied to be a hallucination and in V he just fights for fun, since after the battle he simply turns around and can even do rematch. He can also use Masakados which gives him almost full invincibility and he has a natural Pierce attribute. Every other MC before IV relies on his COMP but without it they wouldn't be so powerful, though Aleph still is pretty supernatural. Flynn and Nanashi ARE strong, I agree, but even then it's mostly about the power of friendship and humanity as a whole in contrast to Demi-Fiend's rejection of humanity and the whole forever solo thing. Well, yeah, he has an army and Pixie but they're not the source of his power, they're just support and "cannon fodder". Raidou is also powerful but he clearly gets outmatched and Goutou fears Demi-Fiend in the Case File after the credits. As for SMT IV Demi-Fiend he's the one Lucifer feared of to the point he had to get rid of Demi-FIend to save his own ass.
"It's all really hard to discuss due to gameplay restrictions and e.t.c. so the only thing we can truly believe is what lore tells us." >It really isn't, I gave direct lore reasons why Demi-fiend does not stack up with most of the cast, and most of these reasons seem to be misremembering important points from each game you brought up, allow me to go over each. "So, Demi-Fiend is so far the only man to become not only a true demon but Lucifer's warlord and conqueror of worlds. If Lucifer saw potential in any other protagonist, surely he would make them warlords as well but he didn't." >Don't really get this argument. Demi-fiend is not the only one so far to become a true demon btw, Chaos Hero from SMT 1 did, mind you if we want to use this logic. Hideto, Nanashi, & Nahobino are the only characters thusfar to become gods, so becoming a true demon is irrelevant. Also would like to note Lucifer was AFRAID of Kazuya in SMT 1. Lucifer made Demi-fiend his warlord because he's a messiah and those are the ones that could overthrow YHVH. But he DID see potential in the other characters, he just knew he couldn't recruit any of them. Raidou works for the yatagarsu, he can never convince him to join him, so the most he does is just praise Raidou as the one that will overthrow the chains of fate and such as an example. Btw Lucifer liked Tadano so much in Strange Journey he had his child, so even with your logic, there was a character like that. "Demi-Fiend in DDS is implied to be a hallucination" >Demi-fiend in DDS is implied to be that but in actuality, he's his solar data, which data can be treated as an illusion and the game makes some note how literally EVERYTHING is made of data, so that still is Demi-fiend they're fighting, and a stronger one at that as solar data demons are stronger then their regular selves (I.E. Jack Frost the Magnificent). Yet he lost, and this was only the part 1 DDS cast he fought. "and in V he just fights for fun, since after the battle he simply turns around and can even do rematch" >He's not fighting for fun in SMT V, you're supposed to get a menorah from him. We directly see him in his low health state where he's glowing read. Pixie, his literal simp, doesn't even try to make that excuse. The fact that you can rematch him is NOT that he's doing it for fun, cause with your logic, then Nahobino is also doing it for fun since you CHOOSE to do the rematch, not him. Also it's very easy to just tell that Pixie healed him which is why he can rematch you, since she's still up and about. "He can also use Masakados which gives him almost full invincibility and he has a natural Pierce attribute." >He uses masakados in his boss fights, and he still loses. So that's not really relevant here. Natural pierce attribute is something Raidou also has, literally an attribute about him as a party member in Nocturne. "Every other MC before IV relies on his COMP but without it they wouldn't be so powerful, though Aleph still is pretty supernatural." >Idk WHERE you got this from, cause there's MCs before IV that don't even USE COMPs. Raidou, Serph & Seraph. This isn't even relevant either because sure, they "rely" to an extent on it, but who cares? That's like me saying Link relies on his sword in a fight or that Sora relies on his keyblade, COMPs still canonically amplify a character to be able to take hits from demons and helps them grow stronger, and they use it during fights, so it's really irrelevant what they are without it. We don't discredit mages in fiction to be weak just because they're weak without their magic, why this weird distinction here? "Flynn and Nanashi ARE strong, I agree, but even then it's mostly about the power of friendship and humanity as a whole in contrast to Demi-Fiend's rejection of humanity and the whole forever solo thing." >I have no clue what you're talking about here, firstly, these are though processes and concepts, they have nothing to do with strength, secondly, Nanashi beats YHVH in anarchy route without what you mentioned, and he mind controls Flynn in that route who also beats YHVH without what you mentioned. So it's clear they weren't only relying on that. Messiahs in the Diamond Realm DLC literally has Nanashi save Demi-fiend from demons attacking him too and Stephen says only Nanashi can guide all the previous Messiahs, making him stronger then all of them. "Well, yeah, he has an army and Pixie but they're not the source of his power, they're just support and "cannon fodder"." >I don't know what headcanon this is, these are canonically a big source of his power, hence why he never fights alone in ANY of his boss fights asides from I think IMAGINE. "Raidou is also powerful but he clearly gets outmatched and Goutou fears Demi-Fiend in the Case File after the credits." >...You mean in the same game where Raidou was holding back against Demi-fiend and they only tied and then when Raidou was about to get serious is when Gotou yells at him to stop? In the same cutscene that is just a mirror swap of Dante who outright beat Demi-fiend and was also holding back? Also no, the case file does not say that, I've already seen this argument before, it's just a misunderstanding as usual. "As for SMT IV Demi-Fiend he's the one Lucifer feared of to the point he had to get rid of Demi-FIend to save his own ass." >...No, that is not what happened at all. I don't know who told you ANY of these headcanon things but none of this is said in the game. SMT IV Demi-fiend is YHVH messing with the timelines to kill all the messiahs so they can never confront him, so when Lucifer tests Demi-fiend in Nocturne, he can kill you in that fight, cause he doesn't care if he does, that just means you weren't what he was looking for, in that timeline he does just that, which is why Demi-fiend ends up there. But let's pretend your headcanon point is right, that would mean he's weaker then Lucifer, who has lost to most other protags on this list and is straight up afraid of Kazuya, so this would actually put Demi-fiend below every MC if we used that logic.
@@DackAttack 1. Isn't Chaos Hero basically just a demonoid? As for Kazuya, he later died in a pretty strange way so I'm not sure why Lucifer feared him if even Messians could just "cave-in" him. 2. I don't see how's fighting for Menorah is the proof that Demi-Fiend is serious. Either way, why's Nahobino letting him? Isn't it dumb that Nahobino supposedly can kill Lucifer's warlord but just doesn't want to and let's Pixie heal him after which Demi-Fiend just turns stands there like nothing happened? One minute they "fight to the death", the other they just chill. 3. COMP is an accessory, Demi-Fiend's strength is his inner strength. Not equipment, not demons but inner strength. I get it that his Magatamas are an equipment in some way but he gets skills permanently and it matters what skills he has. SMT V did him dirty since you can now withstand his Gaea Rage and he has only resist instead of void. On the other hand it may be considered as another example of him just not taking this seriously. 4. Those fights with either Raidou or Dante happen during early-midgame. Demi-Fiend isn't at his full strength yet. After he defeats other reasons in the tower he's already much stronger and after he defeats Kagutsuchi and Lucifer he proves to be the strongest in this Vortex World and worthy of Lucifer's praise. Though Raidou could defeat Lucifer in his game too, I still don't see why Gotou's concerns about Demi-Fiend potentially being an enemy can't be viewed as a fear. 5. Ok, about Apocalypse. I got confused, it's actually YHVH who fears all the protagonists, not Lucifer. Well, that's no point then. 6. Tadano's child isn't something great. Alex is even weaker than protagonist himself. 7. Oh, and about Demi-Fiend's army. Like I said, they're just support. He uses them for buffs, ailments, healing and e.t.c. while he himself basically requires only Gaea Rage and Freikugel. He's very strong by himself but his demons make him even stronger just like COMP's but what would become of Kazuya or Aleph if they lost their COMP? Would they be strong enough to fight without a COMP? Flynn and Nanashi would be fine I guess but I'm not sure if Flynn could defeat Demi-Fiend by himself. And if we take IMAGINE into consideration, that Demi-Fiend is practically the strongest version of himself even though his alone but it's an MMORPG, there're most of the bosses strongest versions of themselves.
"Isn't Chaos Hero basically just a demonoid?" >No, he's straight up called a demon once he becomes on. "As for Kazuya, he later died in a pretty strange way so I'm not sure why Lucifer feared him if even Messians could just "cave-in" him." >Kazuya did not die in a cave-in, that's a lie made by the angels in SMT 2, he actually got turned to stone by them, hence why his statue of him you can hear crying, I'd send the link but youtube I think blocks those, just looks up SMT Kazuya stone statue and you can learn more about it there. "I don't see how's fighting for Menorah is the proof that Demi-Fiend is serious." >Cause the entire point of the Nahobino collecting Menorahs is to grow stronger, and after beating Demi-fiend Sophie directly comments on this noting you've achieved an entirely new power that she hasn't sensed before. "Either way, why's Nahobino letting him? Isn't it dumb that Nahobino supposedly can kill Lucifer's warlord but just doesn't want to and let's Pixie heal him after which Demi-Fiend just turns stands there like nothing happened? One minute they "fight to the death", the other they just chill." >Nahobino lets him because he's just there for the menorah, not to kill Demi-fiend, literally nowhere in any form of dialogue does it EVER say Nahobino is trying to kill Demi-fiend, he just wants to menorah to grow in strength, this is the entire reason he's even on this side quest. I don't mean to be that guy but have you played SMT V or it's DLC? Because this is literally the entire point of that DLC sub-story. "COMP is an accessory, Demi-Fiend's strength is his inner strength. Not equipment, not demons but inner strength." >Demi-fiend's strength is actually not his inner strength, it's his magatamas. The entire reason he even BECAME the Demi-fiend is because he fused with a parasitic magatama. This is something even shown to us in the beginning of Nocturne and is the reason that's the main collectible. So if you want to discredit the other protags from using COMPs, I can discredit Demi-fiend from having Magatamas. See how weird this sounds? Funnily enough the only protag without any amplifications or such that has their own inner strength is Raidou. Also if you want to be technical Serph, since they can de-transform from their demon state and still beat demons and bosses. "I get it that his Magatamas are an equipment in some way but he gets skills permanently and it matters what skills he has." >You cannot acknowledge magatamas and then say his strength is his inner strength, those two don't correlate. Also other characters get perm skills too so I don't really get this point. "SMT V did him dirty since you can now withstand his Gaea Rage and he has only resist instead of void. On the other hand it may be considered as another example of him just not taking this seriously." >Gaea's Rage one-shotting is a game mechanic, Matter Lucifer has Gaea's Rage and it doesn't one-shot you or deal nearly the damage Demi-fiend does. Demi-fiend is clearly not stronger then Matter Lucifer since he's not even stronger then regular Lucifer. So not this is not an example of "him not taking this seriously" that's literal headcanon, also bro canonically jobbed to Satan in DDS 2, he's not that strong. "Those fights with either Raidou or Dante happen during early-midgame. Demi-Fiend isn't at his full strength yet. After he defeats other reasons in the tower he's already much stronger and after he defeats Kagutsuchi and Lucifer he proves to be the strongest in this Vortex World and worthy of Lucifer's praise." >This is objectively wrong. Raidou and Dante's final boss level is 60, Kagutsuchi by extension, is level 85 in his first form. Now through game design this already deduces level 60 is at very least mid game, realistically just late game. Also when you go to recruit them, they're both 20 levels higher, so I can easily counter any "he gets stronger" point with so do they. Mind you also you can FIGHT Kagutsuchi with Raidou or Dante in party, along with Lucifer, so this argument doesn't mean anything. We know too both are holding back since Dante is a character that's funnily enough, actually canonically known for holding back and this is literally just his DMC 2 self where he was depressed and not trying ever, while Raidou is using demons such as Mokoi and Moh Shuvuu, which Moh Shuvuu is canonically stated to be his weakest combat demon. Also Lucifer praised Raidou in King Abbadon, literally noting he would be the one to overthrow the will of YHVH, mind you too during this boss fight Lucifer uses his angel form against Raidou, something he never does against Demi-fiend, and his angel form is the same form he used to help Aleph fight YHVH. On top of that I think you're SEVERLY overplaying the Demi-fiend vs Lucifer fight, Lucifer literally noted this was merely a test, he wanted to see if Demi-fiend could fight him, so this is funnily enough one of the worst showings of beating Lucifer, the only other character that'd be lower is Akemi Nakajima since he needed an item to negate Lucifer's ability to heal himself. "Though Raidou could defeat Lucifer in his game too, I still don't see why Gotou's concerns about Demi-Fiend potentially being an enemy can't be viewed as a fear." >Being stronger then someone does not mean you can't be concerned at them being your enemy? Even then, concern =/= fear, it's just concern. Gotou is aware of Demi-fiend's skills so Demi-fiend would be problematic if he became a villain to them. I'm just going to use an example here to showcase how weird this point is. In one of the really early Amazing Spider-Man Issues, probs Issue #3, the Fantastic Four directly say how dangerous and concerning it would be if Spider-Man became a villain, now I don't think I need to explain how stupid it would be to say Spider-Man is physically stronger then the entire Fantastic Four when characters like The Thing go blow for blow with The Hulk while Spider-Man can only really stagger him using all of his strength. Still don't know why this is relevant anyways since you directly acknowledge and admit Raidou fights and defeats Lucifer. "Ok, about Apocalypse. I got confused, it's actually YHVH who fears all the protagonists, not Lucifer. Well, that's no point then." >Which in that exact same DLC Nanashi is pretty much shown to actually be the strongest of all the protags there. "Tadano's child isn't something great. Alex is even weaker than protagonist himself." >Don't really get what relevance this holds, my point was that you tried to make it seem like Lucifer only cared so greatly about Demi-fiend, I would say directly turning yourself into a women and taking backshots from a dude purely because of his potential and that offsprings he can produce easily defeats them enlisting you. Also don't really see why Alex being weaker then Tadano matters, Tadano is the same dude that has a sword directly noted to be equal to God, and has taken out beings using the cosmic egg, the same thing used in IVA to create a new universe. The fact that she can even go blow for blow with the protagonist already enough ironically puts her about Demi-fiend. "Oh, and about Demi-Fiend's army. Like I said, they're just support." >You realize you can apply this logic to literally every protagonist right? I can do an entire no demons run of most SMT games. Nyarly literally uploaded a video 8 days ago with him beating the original SMT 1 without using demons. Yes, demons are support, that's the entire POINT of them. "He uses them for buffs, ailments, healing and e.t.c. while he himself basically requires only Gaea Rage and Freikugel." >His boss fights show this is objectively wrong. He uses them to attack his enemies. You never in Nocturne even do buffs only with demons either, buffs are an important part but you also use them to attack. "He's very strong by himself but his demons make him even stronger just like COMP's but what would become of Kazuya or Aleph if they lost their COMP?" >What would Demi-fiend be if he lost his magatama? Like this is such a weird what if question because this undermines a characters achievement and goes to a really muscle head philosphy of strength, literally any discussion regarding strength with any protag in MT we're assuming they have their COMP on them, this "what if they lost their COMP" is irrelevant and it doesn't ever even happen in their own games so I don't see why we're delving into this. What are we going to say next, what if Sailor Moon lost her brooch? What if mech users didn't have their mech? What if pokemon trainers didn't have their pokemon? This is a very weak excuse to make someone stronger, especially when person in question still himself is using a specific item to be so strong. "Would they be strong enough to fight without a COMP?" >Kazuya directly takes a hit from a demon in SMT 1 before ever getting a COMP. "Flynn and Nanashi would be fine I guess but I'm not sure if Flynn could defeat Demi-Fiend by himself." >Flynn is literally known as a godslayer and is the guy Nanashi mind controls in the anarchy route of IVA to defeat YHVH, yes he does beat Demi-fiend. "And if we take IMAGINE into consideration, that Demi-Fiend is practically the strongest version of himself even though his alone but it's an MMORPG, there're most of the bosses strongest versions of themselves." >Why is IMAGINE relevant to this discussion at all? Also IMAGINE is not the strongest version of Demi-fiend, SMT V would be, because in that game due to YHVH's death, magatsuhi is going out of control, which is why all the demons are a shitton stronger and can pull things like special moves with the magatasuhi. Even then, we have nothing to base IMAGINE Demi-fiend off of, he just fights the protag and loses twice, we can consider the second fight he was holding back since he just falls on one knee and gets back up, but he still loses we have no way to gauge him to be stronger then anyone there.
I recently played Nocturne, one of the few SMT games I've played, alongside Digital Devil Saga. After the game I wondered how strong the DF was and with my greatest surprise he almost always showed up on top on any video game characters tier list, even above Dante, Kratos or Asura, the latter I thought was the strongest videogame character ever (although I was always ready to see otherwise, I'm not omniscient afterall). DF didn't strike me as being that strong, especially because he never fights alone. Sure, he commands strong demons, but the difference of beating a strong foe alone and with a team is extremely is infinite. I mean, Dante defeated a demon who can create a universe (Mundus, DMC1) or a demon who shook the entirety of Hell (Urizen, DMC5) which is infinite, Asura punched the hell out of the actual creator of his universe. Demi Fiend is definitely strong, but got helped. And this thing of defeating God is always weird. By this definition, a Fear Rattata is stronger than anything because he can two-shots Arceus, the Pokémon God (I know it's an exageration and just gameplay, it's a joke). I don't know, maybe I lack lore knowledge. I don't know about this Aleph guy or Nahobino. Will play SMT5, looks a lot of fun.
Well I'd say defeating with a team isn't exactly an infinite difference from defeating someone by yourself, you'd still need to be relative to the enemy to be able to harm them at all. Demi-fiend himself hasn't even defeated the "true god" in SMT, he just defeated an echo of it.
Also despite people downplaying sonic exe the strongest versions of sonic exe like Lord X, fatal error can one shot kirby and people really think every version of sonic exe is weak 💀
The strongest Megaten protags imo are as follows(in no particular order): Nahobino, DemiFiend, Serph/Seraph, Aleph, and Last Bible protag(actually comes to blows with an avatar controlled by The Axiom itself)
I have issue with Demi--Fiend being above Serph, mainly because he loses to him in DDS1 and Serph gets massively more powerful in DDS2. Also LB protag and that avatar isn't exactly Axiom's avatar, it's kinda weird cause LB universe is created by Nakajima.
@@hansword Universal Will I'd assume is Nakajima's interpretation of it? Technically also the LB protag couldn't really "beat" the universal will, El had to use an ultimate attack that killed him in order for the cast to harm the universal will, prior to that your attacks do no damage to it.
@@DackAttack So neither the LB crew nor the universal will is anywhere near the true Axiom's level? So what tier would you put LB protag at then? Top tier would be the likes of Nahobino
@@hansword Yeah neither are the closest thing thusfar we have to Axiom is Stephen in IVA overriding the very rules of the Axiom and Nahobino making a universe free of the cycle of mandala. I'd need to fully play through LB to give my full opinion where I'd place them in comparison to other protags.
Its nice to listen to someone that acually have common sense. But I think that god status is not equal to yhwh. YHWH was always portrayed as the god above all so I assume the god status can be given to extremly stronhg but (in most games) VHWH is the supreme and absolute one (unless someone beats his ass). My headcanon is that VHWH was killed by lucifer with help of demi fiend and then lucifer ditched him. There are few reffrences to nocturne but they might be just fan service and smt should rather be seen as episodic with each game not being directly ralated to each other unless its visibly stated otherwise (example digital devil saga 1 and 2) Also the most funny thing to me about all of that power scaling bulshit is the fact that protagonist from fucking last bible defeated the great will
The God status I'm talking about are the ones directly noted to be given by YHVH or make them superior to YHVH. Also YHVH's portrayal isn't really consistent, there's several god level beings in SMT games equal to or beyond him. Hell, Shinadou embodies humanity's despair against God so much to the point that Raidou going to fight him caused YHVH to summon Camael to stop him on his progress and directly amplifies Camael. The most likely answer for how Lucifer killed YHVH is he fused with his human and became a nahobino since the entire point of SMT V is that the nahobino can surpass God. We also know it's not him casting Demi-fiend aside because the fiends DLC has the fiends note that they come from another universe. Also The Great Will is just YHVH, we know this because that's the name used in Nocturne and is very clearly talking about YHVH as Demi-fiend with Lucifer were going to go on a war against God. So it's just the Last Bible cast beating another interpretation of YHVH.
I personally don't care about the protagonists strength or their power scaling, as long as the games are good i'm happy (still, Tadano stronger than Demi-Fiend #CommonStrangeJourneyW)
Honestly should just be with any fiction, but the misconception with demi-fiend gets annoying when every comment section of a boss fight or his people go "lol he's holding back"
@@jonathangoodwin5609 They are but sadly majority of the community are weirdos that will do things like send fake scans, lie, and argue to win rather then to have a discussion.
I know im like really late to this, but all of this is pointless and dumb. The strongest being is clearly the protagonist of whatever game you happen to be playing, because if they add another guy as a DLC super boss, you playing the game always canonically win or the game wouldnt occur amen praise be to yhvh
Actually there are boss and superboss fights that show you're in actuality not stronger. Using the Yakuza series as an example, in Yakuza 7 you control Ichiban and can beat Kiryu in a long boss fight but the post cutscene shows you didn't even beat him at all. Or using Kingdom Hearts 2 as an example, you fight Sephiroth and post fight he just dusts himself and goes "I guess you were entertaining but only Cloud can truly defeat me" SMT has something similar too since the secret Raidou boss in Soul Hackers Raidou's only fighting you as a training exercise and does shit like pull out his low tier demons and uses a previous game boss to see how strong you are.
@DackAttack You know what? Fair enough. I wasn't being entirely serious in my comment. I will however say that powerscaling characters usually gets frustrating because people take away very different things from certain scenes or battle, and not everyone can agree what's canonically an ability or gameplay like you mentioned with 1 shot gaea rage. I am reminded of that one guy who talked about how a certain cool factor plays into it. Nahobino is certainly stronger than alot of other people but his design doesn't resonate as much as demi-fiend and that's why arguments like this come into play. Because they like them less they inherent think less of them. Also side note, very cool that you respond to comments on old videos like this.
@justinallen6602 The powerscaling community as a whole I normally do not take seriously, there's still a large subsection of them that actually unironically believe being in a higher dimension makes you infinitely greater in power then someone in a lower dimension... even though energy is a dimensionless quantity, but I digress. Gaea's Rage is very simple to list as just gameplay from the fact that Demi-fiend can't one shot Lucifer with it in Nocturne and Matter Lucifer can use gaea's rage and he doesn't one shot with it and Demi-fiend is nowhere near Matter Lucifer in power. The one shot is just a clear as day asshole boss mechanic.
Anyone who thinks Demi Fiend isn't the strongest SMT protagonist I have question, can you fight other protagonists? no? isn't demi fiend one of the hardest Single Player JRPG Secret boss in gaming? yes? Then there you go. Nahobino stronger? Pfff hahahaha, good one, Same With SMT IV. The only MC that can match him or outmatch him is probably SMT II MC, but that's it. Lol the goku wankers are hilarious. Basically every single one of your arguments against demi fiend backfired at you so........yeah You are fucked. Demi Fiend is the strongest by default. But there is one thing that we could use to measure demi fiend and every other protagonist the DLC fight against Steve in SMT IV apocalypse and even there Demi fiend has some of the heavy hitter's attacks, not the strongest but he hits like a truck. If Anyone is stronger than Demi Fiend is clearly all the High ones and Steve of course.
"Anyone who thinks Demi Fiend isn't the strongest SMT protagonist I have question, can you fight other protagonists? no? isn't demi fiend one of the hardest Single Player JRPG Secret boss in gaming? yes? Then there you go." >Your very first question shows you actually do not know what you're saying since you fight the Devil Summoner protag and Raidou Kuzunoha as boss characters. They're also considered stupidly hard, and Devil Summoner protag is seen as weaker then both Keiji and Raidou. Sans is a harder boss fight in Undertale then Asriel Dreemurr, is Asriel Dreemurr now weaker then Sans? That's the logic you're going by. Also he's not the hardest single player JRPG boss in gaming, that's an unprovable claim cause you have not played every single JRPG. Your opening answer is objectively false and shows either you're a troll or you've genuinely only played Nocturne. "Nahobino stronger? Pfff hahahaha, good one, Same With SMT IV. The only MC that can match him or outmatch him is probably SMT II MC, but that's it." >Nahobino beat Demi-fiend, what are you talking about? The SMT II MC beat YHVH, who Nahobino and SMT IV are SUPERIOR to, did you just ignore that part entirely? "Basically every single one of your arguments against demi fiend backfired at you so........yeah You are fucked. Demi Fiend is the strongest by default." >My entire video showed why Demi Fiend is not the strongest, with evidence that shows how he objectively cannot be stronger. "But there is one thing that we could use to measure demi fiend and every other protagonist the DLC fight against Steve in SMT IV apocalypse and even there Demi fiend has some of the heavy hitter's attacks, not the strongest but he hits like a truck. If Anyone is stronger than Demi Fiend is clearly all the High ones and Steve of course." >Demi-fiend and co. in that DLC are all amplified by Nanshi and Stephen so if you want to use that, you just admitted Demi fiend is weaker then Nanashi. This is just genuine cope the reply. You can pull up on my discord though and fully debate this if you still disagree. Sparrow#9009
He’s simply the most visually appealing of the smt protagonists. The full body tattoos(or demon markings), the fact he goes the majority of the game punching everything, he’s essentially a wrestler on mega steroids. He solves most of his in game problems by just throwing himself at the problem until he eventually perseveres. His sheer determination to “hit it till it dies” is what makes him an appealing and interesting protagonist, but it doesn’t necessarily make him the strongest. People will overhype his power because they love him as a character, and if there’s anything appealing about smt games it’s how it makes you feel a sense of freedom, that you’re playthrough is your own story, and it’s apparent in the fact that no one will have the exact same experience. Everyone is gonna have different demons, different skills, different tactics they used to overcome the games challenges. So people will believe demi fiend is the strongest simply because he’s the coolest protagonist of the bunch.
Ngl, what you just described is like 99% of video game protags lol
I'm like at least sure that 50% of people who played Nocturne run a Focus, Pierce, Freikugel build on Demi-fiend lmao
Just like Concentrate Antitachlon/Megidalaon Flynn and Charge Riot Gun/Akasha Arts Nanashi are common builds from a similar experience but yea SMT really do feel free for team builds
Demifiend's popularity really overshadows the other Megaten MCs! And like, even in a series where Silent MCs are the norm. He feels far more like a meassuring stick to be used as fodder in VS debates and nothing else. A lot of the time.
Raidou is also a Silent MC, yet him. And his story are a hell of a lot more lively! (Well, he is a Silent MC unless you count his manga version. Which absolutely rules by the way!)
100% agreed.
yeah haraki is infinately better than ow the edge boredmi fiend
@@duyanhbui5386 ...Huh? "Haraki"? I do not recognize who that nickname is supposed to be for.
This video was really nice to watch!
Thanks! Check out some of my other videos too, and do the share to 10 friends and onwards challenge if you please. 🙏
Anyone who thinks his Demifiend is the strongest is kind dumb. Everything he has done, other protagonists have also pulled off, and some have even better shbowings. Particularly notable is Nahobino, who perceived Lucifers true form. This is noted in game to only be possible for people who have reached a specific level of power, and he was the only protagonist to do so.
From what I've seen it's either just people that only for the most part looked at memes or are going ermahgah his superboss is too strong!!
The point about demi fiend not being one to hold back is a good point, and during the fight between demi fiend and Nahobino if demi fiend wins he kills Nahobino but if Nahobino wins he spares demi fiend. Would this suggest that Nahobino is holding back? Because Nahobino was able to make demi fiend kneel but chose not to finish him.
It would make sense especially since Nahobino goes on to fight threats that are perceived as greater by Aogami
You can spare someone's life and not hold back I do think nahobino is stronger than demi fiend but that is not a good reason to prove he is stronger than demi fiend
That's not at all what I was arguing. I was saying Aogami can literally sxan the threat level of demons and didn’t view Demi-fiend as anything beyond the typical boss. No clue how you misinterpreted it that bad.
@@DackAttack fair enough
I wish more people would focus on demi fiend. sonic omt and spawn all three are really underrated strong fictional characters
As the adversary chadtan fought the fraud the king of chaos he began to charge up his megido ark Demi fiend shrunk back in fear than Satan said "stand proud Demi fiend you are strong"
Idk y people overhype Demi fiend strength, yes he’s strong but he’s far from the peak and pinnacle of Megaten protagonist power like
-Nahobino is stronger than him
-Flynn and Nanashi( especially in the massacre ending) are stronger than him
-Hideto from Megaten 2 is is stronger than him
-Raidou is stronger than him( he literally almost killed him)
- Tadano (especially with the cosmic egg) from Strange journey is stronger than him
- Both Devil Survivor protags Kazuya(or Abel) and Hibiki are stronger than him
The list goes on bruh
I think it's cause Nocturne was a lot of people's first SMT and then how hard both of his superboss fights are made this weird misconception that he's the strongest.
Yo bro do you remember an account named markpratt8048 this is my alt account and im just gonna say this the fact that you can scale any version of sonic exe and demi fiend to boundless and so many people are still denial on how powerful they are is crazy 💀
Here is something else to note about demi fiend in smt v(specifically smt v vengeance)demi fiend is recruitable and not only does he have all the same immunities from masakados but gaea rage is not as powerful as it is in his boss fight
Also the game makes it clear he wasn’t holding back during his boss fight since Pixie says Demi-fiend was impressed by your strength and wants to join you
I never got to finish Nocturne, Random encounters just killed my interest. But I'm currently playing V and loving it. So far the strongest ones in the verse I would say are Nanashi and Nahobino are easily the strongest. Feel free to argue though
That's pretty much it. Tadano also serves as a possible contender too.
It's all really hard to discuss due to gameplay restrictions and e.t.c. so the only thing we can truly believe is what lore tells us. So, Demi-Fiend is so far the only man to become not only a true demon but Lucifer's warlord and conqueror of worlds. If Lucifer saw potential in any other protagonist, surely he would make them warlords as well but he didn't. Demi-Fiend in DDS is implied to be a hallucination and in V he just fights for fun, since after the battle he simply turns around and can even do rematch. He can also use Masakados which gives him almost full invincibility and he has a natural Pierce attribute. Every other MC before IV relies on his COMP but without it they wouldn't be so powerful, though Aleph still is pretty supernatural. Flynn and Nanashi ARE strong, I agree, but even then it's mostly about the power of friendship and humanity as a whole in contrast to Demi-Fiend's rejection of humanity and the whole forever solo thing. Well, yeah, he has an army and Pixie but they're not the source of his power, they're just support and "cannon fodder". Raidou is also powerful but he clearly gets outmatched and Goutou fears Demi-Fiend in the Case File after the credits. As for SMT IV Demi-Fiend he's the one Lucifer feared of to the point he had to get rid of Demi-FIend to save his own ass.
"It's all really hard to discuss due to gameplay restrictions and e.t.c. so the only thing we can truly believe is what lore tells us."
>It really isn't, I gave direct lore reasons why Demi-fiend does not stack up with most of the cast, and most of these reasons seem to be misremembering important points from each game you brought up, allow me to go over each.
"So, Demi-Fiend is so far the only man to become not only a true demon but Lucifer's warlord and conqueror of worlds. If Lucifer saw potential in any other protagonist, surely he would make them warlords as well but he didn't."
>Don't really get this argument. Demi-fiend is not the only one so far to become a true demon btw, Chaos Hero from SMT 1 did, mind you if we want to use this logic. Hideto, Nanashi, & Nahobino are the only characters thusfar to become gods, so becoming a true demon is irrelevant. Also would like to note Lucifer was AFRAID of Kazuya in SMT 1. Lucifer made Demi-fiend his warlord because he's a messiah and those are the ones that could overthrow YHVH. But he DID see potential in the other characters, he just knew he couldn't recruit any of them. Raidou works for the yatagarsu, he can never convince him to join him, so the most he does is just praise Raidou as the one that will overthrow the chains of fate and such as an example. Btw Lucifer liked Tadano so much in Strange Journey he had his child, so even with your logic, there was a character like that.
"Demi-Fiend in DDS is implied to be a hallucination"
>Demi-fiend in DDS is implied to be that but in actuality, he's his solar data, which data can be treated as an illusion and the game makes some note how literally EVERYTHING is made of data, so that still is Demi-fiend they're fighting, and a stronger one at that as solar data demons are stronger then their regular selves (I.E. Jack Frost the Magnificent). Yet he lost, and this was only the part 1 DDS cast he fought.
"and in V he just fights for fun, since after the battle he simply turns around and can even do rematch"
>He's not fighting for fun in SMT V, you're supposed to get a menorah from him. We directly see him in his low health state where he's glowing read. Pixie, his literal simp, doesn't even try to make that excuse. The fact that you can rematch him is NOT that he's doing it for fun, cause with your logic, then Nahobino is also doing it for fun since you CHOOSE to do the rematch, not him. Also it's very easy to just tell that Pixie healed him which is why he can rematch you, since she's still up and about.
"He can also use Masakados which gives him almost full invincibility and he has a natural Pierce attribute."
>He uses masakados in his boss fights, and he still loses. So that's not really relevant here. Natural pierce attribute is something Raidou also has, literally an attribute about him as a party member in Nocturne.
"Every other MC before IV relies on his COMP but without it they wouldn't be so powerful, though Aleph still is pretty supernatural."
>Idk WHERE you got this from, cause there's MCs before IV that don't even USE COMPs. Raidou, Serph & Seraph. This isn't even relevant either because sure, they "rely" to an extent on it, but who cares? That's like me saying Link relies on his sword in a fight or that Sora relies on his keyblade, COMPs still canonically amplify a character to be able to take hits from demons and helps them grow stronger, and they use it during fights, so it's really irrelevant what they are without it. We don't discredit mages in fiction to be weak just because they're weak without their magic, why this weird distinction here?
"Flynn and Nanashi ARE strong, I agree, but even then it's mostly about the power of friendship and humanity as a whole in contrast to Demi-Fiend's rejection of humanity and the whole forever solo thing."
>I have no clue what you're talking about here, firstly, these are though processes and concepts, they have nothing to do with strength, secondly, Nanashi beats YHVH in anarchy route without what you mentioned, and he mind controls Flynn in that route who also beats YHVH without what you mentioned. So it's clear they weren't only relying on that. Messiahs in the Diamond Realm DLC literally has Nanashi save Demi-fiend from demons attacking him too and Stephen says only Nanashi can guide all the previous Messiahs, making him stronger then all of them.
"Well, yeah, he has an army and Pixie but they're not the source of his power, they're just support and "cannon fodder"."
>I don't know what headcanon this is, these are canonically a big source of his power, hence why he never fights alone in ANY of his boss fights asides from I think IMAGINE.
"Raidou is also powerful but he clearly gets outmatched and Goutou fears Demi-Fiend in the Case File after the credits."
>...You mean in the same game where Raidou was holding back against Demi-fiend and they only tied and then when Raidou was about to get serious is when Gotou yells at him to stop? In the same cutscene that is just a mirror swap of Dante who outright beat Demi-fiend and was also holding back? Also no, the case file does not say that, I've already seen this argument before, it's just a misunderstanding as usual.
"As for SMT IV Demi-Fiend he's the one Lucifer feared of to the point he had to get rid of Demi-FIend to save his own ass."
>...No, that is not what happened at all. I don't know who told you ANY of these headcanon things but none of this is said in the game. SMT IV Demi-fiend is YHVH messing with the timelines to kill all the messiahs so they can never confront him, so when Lucifer tests Demi-fiend in Nocturne, he can kill you in that fight, cause he doesn't care if he does, that just means you weren't what he was looking for, in that timeline he does just that, which is why Demi-fiend ends up there. But let's pretend your headcanon point is right, that would mean he's weaker then Lucifer, who has lost to most other protags on this list and is straight up afraid of Kazuya, so this would actually put Demi-fiend below every MC if we used that logic.
@@DackAttack 1. Isn't Chaos Hero basically just a demonoid? As for Kazuya, he later died in a pretty strange way so I'm not sure why Lucifer feared him if even Messians could just "cave-in" him.
2. I don't see how's fighting for Menorah is the proof that Demi-Fiend is serious. Either way, why's Nahobino letting him? Isn't it dumb that Nahobino supposedly can kill Lucifer's warlord but just doesn't want to and let's Pixie heal him after which Demi-Fiend just turns stands there like nothing happened? One minute they "fight to the death", the other they just chill.
3. COMP is an accessory, Demi-Fiend's strength is his inner strength. Not equipment, not demons but inner strength. I get it that his Magatamas are an equipment in some way but he gets skills permanently and it matters what skills he has. SMT V did him dirty since you can now withstand his Gaea Rage and he has only resist instead of void. On the other hand it may be considered as another example of him just not taking this seriously.
4. Those fights with either Raidou or Dante happen during early-midgame. Demi-Fiend isn't at his full strength yet. After he defeats other reasons in the tower he's already much stronger and after he defeats Kagutsuchi and Lucifer he proves to be the strongest in this Vortex World and worthy of Lucifer's praise. Though Raidou could defeat Lucifer in his game too, I still don't see why Gotou's concerns about Demi-Fiend potentially being an enemy can't be viewed as a fear.
5. Ok, about Apocalypse. I got confused, it's actually YHVH who fears all the protagonists, not Lucifer. Well, that's no point then.
6. Tadano's child isn't something great. Alex is even weaker than protagonist himself.
7. Oh, and about Demi-Fiend's army. Like I said, they're just support. He uses them for buffs, ailments, healing and e.t.c. while he himself basically requires only Gaea Rage and Freikugel. He's very strong by himself but his demons make him even stronger just like COMP's but what would become of Kazuya or Aleph if they lost their COMP? Would they be strong enough to fight without a COMP? Flynn and Nanashi would be fine I guess but I'm not sure if Flynn could defeat Demi-Fiend by himself. And if we take IMAGINE into consideration, that Demi-Fiend is practically the strongest version of himself even though his alone but it's an MMORPG, there're most of the bosses strongest versions of themselves.
"Isn't Chaos Hero basically just a demonoid?"
>No, he's straight up called a demon once he becomes on.
"As for Kazuya, he later died in a pretty strange way so I'm not sure why Lucifer feared him if even Messians could just "cave-in" him."
>Kazuya did not die in a cave-in, that's a lie made by the angels in SMT 2, he actually got turned to stone by them, hence why his statue of him you can hear crying, I'd send the link but youtube I think blocks those, just looks up SMT Kazuya stone statue and you can learn more about it there.
"I don't see how's fighting for Menorah is the proof that Demi-Fiend is serious."
>Cause the entire point of the Nahobino collecting Menorahs is to grow stronger, and after beating Demi-fiend Sophie directly comments on this noting you've achieved an entirely new power that she hasn't sensed before.
"Either way, why's Nahobino letting him? Isn't it dumb that Nahobino supposedly can kill Lucifer's warlord but just doesn't want to and let's Pixie heal him after which Demi-Fiend just turns stands there like nothing happened? One minute they "fight to the death", the other they just chill."
>Nahobino lets him because he's just there for the menorah, not to kill Demi-fiend, literally nowhere in any form of dialogue does it EVER say Nahobino is trying to kill Demi-fiend, he just wants to menorah to grow in strength, this is the entire reason he's even on this side quest. I don't mean to be that guy but have you played SMT V or it's DLC? Because this is literally the entire point of that DLC sub-story.
"COMP is an accessory, Demi-Fiend's strength is his inner strength. Not equipment, not demons but inner strength."
>Demi-fiend's strength is actually not his inner strength, it's his magatamas. The entire reason he even BECAME the Demi-fiend is because he fused with a parasitic magatama. This is something even shown to us in the beginning of Nocturne and is the reason that's the main collectible. So if you want to discredit the other protags from using COMPs, I can discredit Demi-fiend from having Magatamas. See how weird this sounds? Funnily enough the only protag without any amplifications or such that has their own inner strength is Raidou. Also if you want to be technical Serph, since they can de-transform from their demon state and still beat demons and bosses.
"I get it that his Magatamas are an equipment in some way but he gets skills permanently and it matters what skills he has."
>You cannot acknowledge magatamas and then say his strength is his inner strength, those two don't correlate. Also other characters get perm skills too so I don't really get this point.
"SMT V did him dirty since you can now withstand his Gaea Rage and he has only resist instead of void. On the other hand it may be considered as another example of him just not taking this seriously."
>Gaea's Rage one-shotting is a game mechanic, Matter Lucifer has Gaea's Rage and it doesn't one-shot you or deal nearly the damage Demi-fiend does. Demi-fiend is clearly not stronger then Matter Lucifer since he's not even stronger then regular Lucifer. So not this is not an example of "him not taking this seriously" that's literal headcanon, also bro canonically jobbed to Satan in DDS 2, he's not that strong.
"Those fights with either Raidou or Dante happen during early-midgame. Demi-Fiend isn't at his full strength yet. After he defeats other reasons in the tower he's already much stronger and after he defeats Kagutsuchi and Lucifer he proves to be the strongest in this Vortex World and worthy of Lucifer's praise."
>This is objectively wrong. Raidou and Dante's final boss level is 60, Kagutsuchi by extension, is level 85 in his first form. Now through game design this already deduces level 60 is at very least mid game, realistically just late game. Also when you go to recruit them, they're both 20 levels higher, so I can easily counter any "he gets stronger" point with so do they. Mind you also you can FIGHT Kagutsuchi with Raidou or Dante in party, along with Lucifer, so this argument doesn't mean anything. We know too both are holding back since Dante is a character that's funnily enough, actually canonically known for holding back and this is literally just his DMC 2 self where he was depressed and not trying ever, while Raidou is using demons such as Mokoi and Moh Shuvuu, which Moh Shuvuu is canonically stated to be his weakest combat demon. Also Lucifer praised Raidou in King Abbadon, literally noting he would be the one to overthrow the will of YHVH, mind you too during this boss fight Lucifer uses his angel form against Raidou, something he never does against Demi-fiend, and his angel form is the same form he used to help Aleph fight YHVH. On top of that I think you're SEVERLY overplaying the Demi-fiend vs Lucifer fight, Lucifer literally noted this was merely a test, he wanted to see if Demi-fiend could fight him, so this is funnily enough one of the worst showings of beating Lucifer, the only other character that'd be lower is Akemi Nakajima since he needed an item to negate Lucifer's ability to heal himself.
"Though Raidou could defeat Lucifer in his game too, I still don't see why Gotou's concerns about Demi-Fiend potentially being an enemy can't be viewed as a fear."
>Being stronger then someone does not mean you can't be concerned at them being your enemy? Even then, concern =/= fear, it's just concern. Gotou is aware of Demi-fiend's skills so Demi-fiend would be problematic if he became a villain to them. I'm just going to use an example here to showcase how weird this point is. In one of the really early Amazing Spider-Man Issues, probs Issue #3, the Fantastic Four directly say how dangerous and concerning it would be if Spider-Man became a villain, now I don't think I need to explain how stupid it would be to say Spider-Man is physically stronger then the entire Fantastic Four when characters like The Thing go blow for blow with The Hulk while Spider-Man can only really stagger him using all of his strength. Still don't know why this is relevant anyways since you directly acknowledge and admit Raidou fights and defeats Lucifer.
"Ok, about Apocalypse. I got confused, it's actually YHVH who fears all the protagonists, not Lucifer. Well, that's no point then."
>Which in that exact same DLC Nanashi is pretty much shown to actually be the strongest of all the protags there.
"Tadano's child isn't something great. Alex is even weaker than protagonist himself."
>Don't really get what relevance this holds, my point was that you tried to make it seem like Lucifer only cared so greatly about Demi-fiend, I would say directly turning yourself into a women and taking backshots from a dude purely because of his potential and that offsprings he can produce easily defeats them enlisting you. Also don't really see why Alex being weaker then Tadano matters, Tadano is the same dude that has a sword directly noted to be equal to God, and has taken out beings using the cosmic egg, the same thing used in IVA to create a new universe. The fact that she can even go blow for blow with the protagonist already enough ironically puts her about Demi-fiend.
"Oh, and about Demi-Fiend's army. Like I said, they're just support."
>You realize you can apply this logic to literally every protagonist right? I can do an entire no demons run of most SMT games. Nyarly literally uploaded a video 8 days ago with him beating the original SMT 1 without using demons. Yes, demons are support, that's the entire POINT of them.
"He uses them for buffs, ailments, healing and e.t.c. while he himself basically requires only Gaea Rage and Freikugel."
>His boss fights show this is objectively wrong. He uses them to attack his enemies. You never in Nocturne even do buffs only with demons either, buffs are an important part but you also use them to attack.
"He's very strong by himself but his demons make him even stronger just like COMP's but what would become of Kazuya or Aleph if they lost their COMP?"
>What would Demi-fiend be if he lost his magatama? Like this is such a weird what if question because this undermines a characters achievement and goes to a really muscle head philosphy of strength, literally any discussion regarding strength with any protag in MT we're assuming they have their COMP on them, this "what if they lost their COMP" is irrelevant and it doesn't ever even happen in their own games so I don't see why we're delving into this. What are we going to say next, what if Sailor Moon lost her brooch? What if mech users didn't have their mech? What if pokemon trainers didn't have their pokemon? This is a very weak excuse to make someone stronger, especially when person in question still himself is using a specific item to be so strong.
"Would they be strong enough to fight without a COMP?"
>Kazuya directly takes a hit from a demon in SMT 1 before ever getting a COMP.
"Flynn and Nanashi would be fine I guess but I'm not sure if Flynn could defeat Demi-Fiend by himself."
>Flynn is literally known as a godslayer and is the guy Nanashi mind controls in the anarchy route of IVA to defeat YHVH, yes he does beat Demi-fiend.
"And if we take IMAGINE into consideration, that Demi-Fiend is practically the strongest version of himself even though his alone but it's an MMORPG, there're most of the bosses strongest versions of themselves."
>Why is IMAGINE relevant to this discussion at all? Also IMAGINE is not the strongest version of Demi-fiend, SMT V would be, because in that game due to YHVH's death, magatsuhi is going out of control, which is why all the demons are a shitton stronger and can pull things like special moves with the magatasuhi. Even then, we have nothing to base IMAGINE Demi-fiend off of, he just fights the protag and loses twice, we can consider the second fight he was holding back since he just falls on one knee and gets back up, but he still loses we have no way to gauge him to be stronger then anyone there.
I recently played Nocturne, one of the few SMT games I've played, alongside Digital Devil Saga. After the game I wondered how strong the DF was and with my greatest surprise he almost always showed up on top on any video game characters tier list, even above Dante, Kratos or Asura, the latter I thought was the strongest videogame character ever (although I was always ready to see otherwise, I'm not omniscient afterall).
DF didn't strike me as being that strong, especially because he never fights alone. Sure, he commands strong demons, but the difference of beating a strong foe alone and with a team is extremely is infinite. I mean, Dante defeated a demon who can create a universe (Mundus, DMC1) or a demon who shook the entirety of Hell (Urizen, DMC5) which is infinite, Asura punched the hell out of the actual creator of his universe. Demi Fiend is definitely strong, but got helped.
And this thing of defeating God is always weird. By this definition, a Fear Rattata is stronger than anything because he can two-shots Arceus, the Pokémon God (I know it's an exageration and just gameplay, it's a joke).
I don't know, maybe I lack lore knowledge. I don't know about this Aleph guy or Nahobino. Will play SMT5, looks a lot of fun.
Well I'd say defeating with a team isn't exactly an infinite difference from defeating someone by yourself, you'd still need to be relative to the enemy to be able to harm them at all.
Demi-fiend himself hasn't even defeated the "true god" in SMT, he just defeated an echo of it.
Demi-Fiend is the strongest protagonist. He is super cool and wages war on literal GOD!!!!
Very well, I will go along with this.
so true! it plays the NORMAL battle theme too!
nahobino is stronger
He be
@@mikey_urashi Na there fight wasn't canon besides they homies
Also despite people downplaying sonic exe the strongest versions of sonic exe like Lord X, fatal error can one shot kirby and people really think every version of sonic exe is weak 💀
He's got that dog in him
Who
Slide punch gg
Demi-friend
The strongest Megaten protags imo are as follows(in no particular order): Nahobino, DemiFiend, Serph/Seraph, Aleph, and Last Bible protag(actually comes to blows with an avatar controlled by The Axiom itself)
I have issue with Demi--Fiend being above Serph, mainly because he loses to him in DDS1 and Serph gets massively more powerful in DDS2. Also LB protag and that avatar isn't exactly Axiom's avatar, it's kinda weird cause LB universe is created by Nakajima.
@@DackAttack it's in no order, but the last bible thing is interesting actually, so what is "universal will" actually supposed to be then?
@@hansword Universal Will I'd assume is Nakajima's interpretation of it? Technically also the LB protag couldn't really "beat" the universal will, El had to use an ultimate attack that killed him in order for the cast to harm the universal will, prior to that your attacks do no damage to it.
@@DackAttack So neither the LB crew nor the universal will is anywhere near the true Axiom's level? So what tier would you put LB protag at then? Top tier would be the likes of Nahobino
@@hansword Yeah neither are the closest thing thusfar we have to Axiom is Stephen in IVA overriding the very rules of the Axiom and Nahobino making a universe free of the cycle of mandala. I'd need to fully play through LB to give my full opinion where I'd place them in comparison to other protags.
Its nice to listen to someone that acually have common sense. But I think that god status is not equal to yhwh. YHWH was always portrayed as the god above all so I assume the god status can be given to extremly stronhg but (in most games) VHWH is the supreme and absolute one (unless someone beats his ass). My headcanon is that VHWH was killed by lucifer with help of demi fiend and then lucifer ditched him. There are few reffrences to nocturne but they might be just fan service and smt should rather be seen as episodic with each game not being directly ralated to each other unless its visibly stated otherwise (example digital devil saga 1 and 2)
Also the most funny thing to me about all of that power scaling bulshit is the fact that protagonist from fucking last bible defeated the great will
The God status I'm talking about are the ones directly noted to be given by YHVH or make them superior to YHVH. Also YHVH's portrayal isn't really consistent, there's several god level beings in SMT games equal to or beyond him. Hell, Shinadou embodies humanity's despair against God so much to the point that Raidou going to fight him caused YHVH to summon Camael to stop him on his progress and directly amplifies Camael.
The most likely answer for how Lucifer killed YHVH is he fused with his human and became a nahobino since the entire point of SMT V is that the nahobino can surpass God. We also know it's not him casting Demi-fiend aside because the fiends DLC has the fiends note that they come from another universe.
Also The Great Will is just YHVH, we know this because that's the name used in Nocturne and is very clearly talking about YHVH as Demi-fiend with Lucifer were going to go on a war against God. So it's just the Last Bible cast beating another interpretation of YHVH.
I personally don't care about the protagonists strength or their power scaling, as long as the games are good i'm happy (still, Tadano stronger than Demi-Fiend #CommonStrangeJourneyW)
Honestly should just be with any fiction, but the misconception with demi-fiend gets annoying when every comment section of a boss fight or his people go "lol he's holding back"
Personally I find power scaling discussions to be pretty interesting as long as people come at it from a non biased point of view.
@@jonathangoodwin5609 They are but sadly majority of the community are weirdos that will do things like send fake scans, lie, and argue to win rather then to have a discussion.
Ami sent me
Welcome
I know im like really late to this, but all of this is pointless and dumb. The strongest being is clearly the protagonist of whatever game you happen to be playing, because if they add another guy as a DLC super boss, you playing the game always canonically win or the game wouldnt occur amen praise be to yhvh
Actually there are boss and superboss fights that show you're in actuality not stronger.
Using the Yakuza series as an example, in Yakuza 7 you control Ichiban and can beat Kiryu in a long boss fight but the post cutscene shows you didn't even beat him at all.
Or using Kingdom Hearts 2 as an example, you fight Sephiroth and post fight he just dusts himself and goes "I guess you were entertaining but only Cloud can truly defeat me"
SMT has something similar too since the secret Raidou boss in Soul Hackers Raidou's only fighting you as a training exercise and does shit like pull out his low tier demons and uses a previous game boss to see how strong you are.
@DackAttack You know what? Fair enough. I wasn't being entirely serious in my comment. I will however say that powerscaling characters usually gets frustrating because people take away very different things from certain scenes or battle, and not everyone can agree what's canonically an ability or gameplay like you mentioned with 1 shot gaea rage. I am reminded of that one guy who talked about how a certain cool factor plays into it. Nahobino is certainly stronger than alot of other people but his design doesn't resonate as much as demi-fiend and that's why arguments like this come into play. Because they like them less they inherent think less of them.
Also side note, very cool that you respond to comments on old videos like this.
@justinallen6602
The powerscaling community as a whole I normally do not take seriously, there's still a large subsection of them that actually unironically believe being in a higher dimension makes you infinitely greater in power then someone in a lower dimension... even though energy is a dimensionless quantity, but I digress.
Gaea's Rage is very simple to list as just gameplay from the fact that Demi-fiend can't one shot Lucifer with it in Nocturne and Matter Lucifer can use gaea's rage and he doesn't one shot with it and Demi-fiend is nowhere near Matter Lucifer in power. The one shot is just a clear as day asshole boss mechanic.
@justinallen6602 also I reply to any comments I see in my notifs!
raidou solos both of them
He do
Anyone who thinks Demi Fiend isn't the strongest SMT protagonist I have question, can you fight other protagonists? no? isn't demi fiend one of the hardest Single Player JRPG Secret boss in gaming? yes? Then there you go.
Nahobino stronger? Pfff hahahaha, good one, Same With SMT IV. The only MC that can match him or outmatch him is probably SMT II MC, but that's it.
Lol the goku wankers are hilarious.
Basically every single one of your arguments against demi fiend backfired at you so........yeah You are fucked. Demi Fiend is the strongest by default.
But there is one thing that we could use to measure demi fiend and every other protagonist the DLC fight against Steve in SMT IV apocalypse and even there Demi fiend has some of the heavy hitter's attacks, not the strongest but he hits like a truck. If Anyone is stronger than Demi Fiend is clearly all the High ones and Steve of course.
"Anyone who thinks Demi Fiend isn't the strongest SMT protagonist I have question, can you fight other protagonists? no? isn't demi fiend one of the hardest Single Player JRPG Secret boss in gaming? yes? Then there you go."
>Your very first question shows you actually do not know what you're saying since you fight the Devil Summoner protag and Raidou Kuzunoha as boss characters. They're also considered stupidly hard, and Devil Summoner protag is seen as weaker then both Keiji and Raidou. Sans is a harder boss fight in Undertale then Asriel Dreemurr, is Asriel Dreemurr now weaker then Sans? That's the logic you're going by. Also he's not the hardest single player JRPG boss in gaming, that's an unprovable claim cause you have not played every single JRPG. Your opening answer is objectively false and shows either you're a troll or you've genuinely only played Nocturne.
"Nahobino stronger? Pfff hahahaha, good one, Same With SMT IV. The only MC that can match him or outmatch him is probably SMT II MC, but that's it."
>Nahobino beat Demi-fiend, what are you talking about? The SMT II MC beat YHVH, who Nahobino and SMT IV are SUPERIOR to, did you just ignore that part entirely?
"Basically every single one of your arguments against demi fiend backfired at you so........yeah You are fucked. Demi Fiend is the strongest by default."
>My entire video showed why Demi Fiend is not the strongest, with evidence that shows how he objectively cannot be stronger.
"But there is one thing that we could use to measure demi fiend and every other protagonist the DLC fight against Steve in SMT IV apocalypse and even there Demi fiend has some of the heavy hitter's attacks, not the strongest but he hits like a truck. If Anyone is stronger than Demi Fiend is clearly all the High ones and Steve of course."
>Demi-fiend and co. in that DLC are all amplified by Nanshi and Stephen so if you want to use that, you just admitted Demi fiend is weaker then Nanashi.
This is just genuine cope the reply. You can pull up on my discord though and fully debate this if you still disagree.
Sparrow#9009
Well Nahobino beats Lucifer holding YHVH’s knowledge so that’s a step above what Demi Fiend did in the TDE
Where tf did goku come from, goku would fucking murder the demi fiend lol
I’m sorry, but the SPACE MARINE just flat out does with his absurd gun what Demi needed to gather a demon army to try and do
@raulrojas9253 Good job not making a single point.
Seems like someone is butthurt because people don't agree with you. Get over it.
So you want to note anything in this video that was wrong?
Says the goofy mf who commented.