How To Extend Wall Framing To Raise Ceiling Height - Structural Engineering Ideas
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- www.homebuildin... Click on this link for more information about wall remodeling, repairs and design videos. This video will provide you with a few examples that might work if you're planning on extending your wall framing so that you can raise the ceiling height of a room or your entire house. Keep in mind that these are only suggestions and that a structural engineer might be required by your local government building officials.
I've been trying to figure out how to gain headroom for a cabin loft.. this helped a lot thanks.
I'm looking at buying a vertical log cabin and I want to raise the low ceilings. They are like 7'-4"ish. What did you end up doing and how much did it cost?
Given the labour cost of fiddling around with "extensions" to current wall height, and the risk of hinge/getting it wrong, wouldnt a much simpler, probably cheaper and certainly stronger solution be to just replace the studs with longer ones. ie 1)use acroprops/jacks to support the underside of supporting wall top plate at regular intervals (may need temporary beam to distribute load). Brace the acroprops to prevent toppling 2)use a demo saw to cut and release the top plate away from each stud (leaving the trusses still attached to the top plate to prevent damage to bottom chord of truss), 3) slowly jack the whole roof with acroprops until you reach the desired new height 4)remove noggins and install new (longer) wall studs in place, nailing to bottom plate, existing short studs (or remove them) and top plate. reinstate noggins. 5)add straps to tie top plate to new longer studs. All done. No hinge issues. Standard wall spec so no engineering calcs required.
At that point from what your saying why not just rip the entire garage down and build a new one.
Hi Greg, Nice info. On a second floor addition, I actually used the 4x12 beam on top of the double top plates to raised the ceiling by 12 inches. I positively connect the beam with 6 inch long Simpson lag crews at 16" o.c. through the double top plate to the 4x12 beam. It avoided the hinge problem. In addition, shear panel of 9' tall is added to the exterior for lateral seismic loads.
As to the second floor addition, the floor load is supported on a beam and post system. All post has pad footings underpinning the existing wall footings. Post hardware's and hold-down's are added for overturning and uplifts.
Nice job and thanks for sharing.
So you sat the floor joist for the second floor on the new 4x12?
@@nayanparekh6086 , yes! The 4x12 is like the double top plate. All the rest of the framing rule still apply.
Great video. I have a 60's built garage with a 2ft wall on top of the standard 8'1" wall framing. Add in 2x6 rafters, 24 O.C. and I have a sagging roof and bowed walls. The hinge point is real! The top plate of the extra wall is a solid 3in more outward than the bottom plate. I'm starting to see structural members fail where the nailbangers decided "more must be better". Your video showed me what needs to happen to correct the issue. If I'm going through that effort, I think it's best to just rip the wall down and do it right the first time. It's not worth trying to save someone else's mistake.
Good point. Sometimes it's better to start over.
Doesn't take a hurricane to deflect a soft story. In similar remodels we provide full height posts at ends and openings minimum--like your "stabilizing board". In a very small room like this, the forces are small.
Here in Sweden we don't use straps hardly ever, but some nailing plates, but a lot of Angle Brackets. If you mount angle brackets on every side of the new vertical beams, it get very strong. Use special screws that are made for strong bonds. And "105 Degree Angle Screw adapter".
I've also noticed that in some parts of the United States where there aren't a lot of earthquakes they don't get carried away with straps or other types of building hardware, but in California where I'm from it's ridiculous. Thanks for sharing and it's always great to hear about what they're doing in other countries. I would love to see a picture of what you're referring to and you could get our email address at the website.
Love your videos. I have learned so much. They are very detail.
I always enjoy hearing comments like yours and thanks for watching and learning.
Love your channel...iv got a hip roof cottage and would love to see a series on converting the inside to a open cathedral ceiling. Keep up the great videos.
See if this helps www.homebuildingandrepairs.com/remodeling/framing/index.html
Great info
Oi mate thanks for the info it's helped allot and the detailed information you are a gud bloke
Glad it helped
Why not the entire taller wall is balloon with 2x4's . How the corners work out? still a 4x4?
2015 IRC section R602.3, "Studs shall be continuous from support at the sole plate to a support at the top plate to resist loads perpendicular to the wall. The support shall be a foundation or floor. ceiling or roof diaphragm or shall be designed in accordance with accepted engineer practice." In the US that usually means an engineer's stamp.
Keep in mind not everything built follows building code book instructions and I like the accepted engineer practice.
is there a certain height limit you would recomend for this technique i want to build up about 4 to 5 feet on the my front cabin wall to make a loft thanks!!
Good question and no, I would refer to an engineer for that. It will also depend on the design of the framing.
I have a kitchen that was added on to my cabin my enclosing the previous porch. The roof is flat EPDM (weird!). The interior ceiling is WAY too low! I wanted to raise the walls and make an open beamed ceiling and top it with a metal roof to match the rest of the cabin (I'm not sure how to tie in the new metal roof to the old, as they would go in different directions. That's next on my research list!)... BUT, after watching this, I think the original porch walls won't be strong enough. So I thank you for that!! I think I avoided a catastrophe! :)
Glad it helped and thanks for letting me know it was helpful.
Great video! Thank you! You showed the 4x4s at 4' O.C. but only on the eave walls where the roof rafters will ultimately bear, but nothing on the gable end wall - will you need 4x4s @ 4' o.c. on the gable end walls as well? Thx!
Hi Gregvancom, i have a question related to raising the walls for my garage attic for a bonus room. I can’t figure out what is the best way to gain room as my roof has a 4/12 pitch and the attic above the garage at roof collars is about 7 ft high and 42 inches at its lowest. I thought about adding a dormer but the pitch won’t allow it. The dimensions of the attic are 21x25 with a post towards the garage door end that support the ridge board that is split instead of a full piece. Any way for me to increase head room ...seems like the only option is to raise the walls and the roof as well. Thank you for your time
Thank you. I've been looking for this. Darn, I already put t1-11 siding on the outside 8' talk. That makes it difficult to add the straps on the outside. If I can remove the nails I guess I could slip the strap between the siding and the stud and nail through the siding and the strap into the stud
You're welcome, but the strap nailing might be difficult without removing siding. Maybe they have decorative straps or hardware you can attach over the siding.
@@gregvancom I will be to that point soon. I'll check it out. I want to add 2' height.
Hi Greg - I was recently gifted two lumber packages that a builder friend was going to use but decided not to. The problem is that the walls are 8 ft tall. My plans call for 10' first floor ceilings and 9' second floor ceilings. Would it be safe to extend the wall framing as you did in this video and then build a second floor on top of it? Thanks!
Would adding a second story be a good time to consider raising the ceiling height? If so, does that change how one would approach raising the ceiling height or could any of these methods be used in conjunction?
Thank you so much for this content, it's incredibly helpful.
If you're building a second-story home addition, then it might be best to remove the old materials and replace them with the correct ones, for example longer wall framing studs. I don't think I have a video on this, but will definitely add it to my list of videos to be made in the future.
@@gregvancomhave you made a video on this yet ?
Great video!
Thanks!
Hi im just wondering if there are ways to add another stack beam to increase ceiling height for a concrete slab roof. Is there a way. Someone professional that can tell me is it possible? Thank you. If it can you elaborate how
In your example, how do you add a door that is taller than the old top plate? So for example assuming the old top plates are at 72" height (on the two walls that stay short) and you want to add a typical 82" tall door on one of the walls you just raised. How do you still keep the top plate continuous?
Thanks.
That's not that difficult, simply cut the lower wall framing plates and install the framing studs needed for the door framing assembly into that slotted area. Let me know if this doesn't make sense.
Thanks Greg! This helps out tremendously. What size strap are you proposing for the vertical studs?
Also, I wondered if I only needed to raise one wall 4.5" by stacking three 2x4s on top of each other by gluing and nailing each layer. I suppose it would still be wise to use the straps in that case as well.
If we were going to use the examples in the video, then maybe a 12 inch strap. If you're going to be adding three more plates, then maybe you could drill a hole through all of them and install a bolt with washers at each end, 4 foot on center. Glad you like the video and glad it helped and thanks for the fantastic video suggestion.
- 3 years later, using simpson strongtie screws, the whole top plate stack could be screwed directly into the studs - ?? new techniques appear over time..
Hi...was wondering how you would lift the attached roof to add the extension? Could you do it in multiple pieces and how do you make the lift?
I don't have any videos on that yet, but think it's already on my list of videos to be made in the future.
Please share this video on how to lift
Im building a 28x32 garage already have a bunch of 94 in. studs for the walls, but would like 12ft height. The walls will be placed on 2 rows of 8” block, so ill start at around 9 1/2 ft. Should i build the 8ft walls first then add the sister walls after like in vid, or is there another method i should do while building them adding the short wall on top during framing? No building codes apply, just dont want sag/blowout later. Thx
I don't have another way to use shorter wall studs to build taller walls that will have hinge points.
We are looking into raising our whole house ceiling. It's only like a 6'10" ish ceiling throughout the the house.
I think we will need to restructure/rebuild the entire the roof in able to raise the ceilings inside the house.
Sometimes it will be easier to rebuild sections of the wall, ceiling and roof framing or rebuild the entire project.
Always awesome videos.
Question, how do you elevate with existing joists across? And you want to go for example 12” Higher? To add joists above for a second floor?
If I was going to raise the roof, I would probably do it with the ceiling joist attached to the raising roof, but it would depend on the design.
Hello, thank you for the video. I have a home that has this exact design with the roof sitting directly on those short walls. There is a ceiling/floor where the ceiling extension begins that we would like to remove to create a vaulted ceiling. What would be the best method to keep those walls from bowing out since they support the roof? I was told I would have to keep every 3rd ceiling joist but the ceiling is only 7 feet in the kitchen or completely demo the walls and start over. We'd like to raise the floor 3 inches,as well in the kitchen, to make it even with the room next to it, as it dips down. Thanks in advance!
I have more videos at the website in the remodeling section. I think you can use a ridge beam to solve your problem.
www.homebuildingandrepairs.com/remodeling/framing/index.html
What is your opinion? Which is stronger mending plates that are pressed in or the ones with nail holes and nails in every hole?
Probably the ones with nails, unless you had something to firmly press the ones with teeth together.
Greg I would like to have a 10' exterior wall but the interior to have an 8 foot ceiling. Can I attach the roof rafters on top of the sill to raise the roof 2 feet. The 8' floor joists will rest on top of the 8' wall and the roof rafters will rest on top of the 10' wall. Any suggestions.
I cannot provide you with engineering advice, but think that the methods in this video should be helpful for what you're suggesting. Let me know if this didn't help or answer your questions.
@@gregvancom Now what i want to do is place the ceiling joists on the lower tier and place the roof rafters on top of the addition raising the roof but keeping the ceiling height at 8'. This will give me a heighten roof, to create additional roof space.
Any strap recommendations?
Would it be possible to raise the height of a shed when the roof is already attached. I’m looking to convert our garden shed into a tiny house. Any suggestions would be really appreciated
I don't have any videos on that currently, but don't see why it couldn't be done.
I have a 10x 14 shed. Can a contractor raise the existing roof, add the foot hight and then lower the roof
It all depends upon the contractor's abilities and the design of your shed.
Would it be nice to raise ceiling height using one of these methods on a high post house.?
You might need to check with a structural engineer for more details or visit our website and check out some of our remodeling videos.
Great things to think about with extending a wall! I have a question about upgrading an outdoor shed. Currently, it is used to store lawnmower and gardening tools. It's a wood framed, metal sided/roofed structure with a low sloped pitched roof. I want to seal it up, insulate it, put in a window and window AC unit, finish the interior, and possibly extend the front wall like you show at 3:59 to accommodate an insulated door. What are your thoughts about inserting a 36"x80" door between two of the vertical 4x4s? The shed is 8'x8', so relatively small. I'm hoping to turn it into a temp controlled space to play drums in.
a 2 car conventinal garage. can the cealing be drop right on top of the garage door
please advice
Probably not, but it could be if you didn't use a roll up door and instead used a door that opened from the sides.
This is a useful video for sure. My cabin has a long, sloped roof that goes from 9' to 8' over 17 feet width and I'd like to level it at 10 or 11 ft., with a slight pitch for drainage. Roughly how much $ per 10 feet of extended 2x4 framing would you estimate including labor in your region?
Could I raise a detached garage roof and wall height 6 feet?
Absolutely
Hi Greg, this video is excellent, very informative. I am curious if you have seen or worked on extending the height of a rake/gable end wall? My project involves a 1931 craftsman style home with a second story that has 7' ceilings. I want to raise the height of the ridge beam to 9' by extending the gable wall framing, first removing the top plate entirely then sistering 2 x 6" studs to the existing framing. Then installing a top plate to finish off the wall. To facilitate this wall extension the entire roof structure will have been removed prior to extending the gable end wall as well as any drywall. My plan is add dormers front and rear to increase living space. Any suggestions would be welcome. Thank you.
How long and wide should the straps be?
I cannot provide you with structural engineering information, because the length of the strap might depend upon the overall height your extending the ceiling and the type of lumber you're going to use.
Did you need structural engineer to use the 2x4 method on plans ?
You would need to check with you're local building department.
Hey Greg, love the channel. I’ve got a low ceiling, about 7’4”, and want to get the ceiling up to eight feet. I’ve got 2x4 roof rafters-any way I can hang the ceiling joists of those to get that last eight inches?
I cannot provide you with structural engineering advice, but if you email me a few pictures I might be able to provide you with an opinion. You can get our email address at our website.
Couldn't you just nail 2x4's to the existing 2x4's, run them up through the top plate to get the reinforcing needed to not have any hinge problems?
In some cases, yes and yours is another method to consider.
I guess you guys don't have board stretchers in California. LOL
I lost mine, but maybe I'll need to get another one. Now for the those of you reading this, and who don't know what a board stretcher is, don't bother looking for them, because the last one I saw Bigfoot was carrying while he was talking to Santa Claus or in other words they are totally fictitious, but have provided plenty of laughter on the jobsite.
lol
They way i prob do it is to build a new wall on the ground. If you need to raise the level from the top plate X inches. Just cut plywood in that height. And then build a wall constitution with bottom stud, studs and top stud. That you cover with the plywood. Now lift the new wall into place and use wood glue between your existing wall and the new wall over the old one. Wood glue will make the whole thing so strong. That it is as stronger as the wood. If it is a long wall, just make it in sections.
Yes, you can definitely build a new wall.
I think your proposed solution is complete overkill and unnecessary. Obviously, there are real concerns with under-engineered solutions but there is a real problem in the construction industry where contractors and engineers alike continue to accept and propose over-engineered solutions. This over-engineering comes at substantial costs - both literally and figuratively and many of the "best practice" solutions are just unnecessarily expensive and unnecessarily complicated. I can't find anything where someone has gone back to actually do the engineering math to determine if these are even necessary. I'm just curious about a few things... Anytime anyone says anything about extending a wall about 5k "experts" freak out and start yapping about "hinge walls" but can you point me to a single study that shows any information about hinge walls actually failing and how or why they fail? Can it be demonstrated that it was actually the hinge buckling that caused the failure? Why is it that common nails and/or screws that we use to hold together a house under "normal" circumstances all of a sudden are so inadequate and again, it would just be great to see some real actual data instead of fearmongering repeaters? Can the engineers that recommend that 4' need for the continuous posts show me a single situation or even an FEA simulation that would demonstrate when, why, or how, the strapped solution would fail and why all of this extra destruction and over-engineering is even necessary? Over-engineering is not "better" engineering, in fact, it's patently not engineering at all.
You bring up a good point about over engineering and I've seen it done plenty of times, especially with some of the building hardware that's going in new homes today. However, when it comes to hinge points, this is something that makes sense to me as someone with 40 years of experience. I've actually pushed on these walls and seen them move, when they shouldn't be and that was enough satisfactory evidence for me. If you need more evidence, you might have to look for yourself and feel free to share it with us if you find it.