something that no one ever talks about is that grass is almost always wet where I come from or you can be flying and it can start to rain. props out throws the water into the usb port to the point where iv had an FC die using props out. id rather a smudge on the lens than a dead FC. conformal coat a usb connector wont work... just sayin. Props in for the win.
i wish companies would supply USB cover plugs in FC packaging. if you ever bought a computer graphics card they usually ship with similar plastic plugs for HDMI ports.
Joshua, this donation does not even come CLOSE to what it should be for all I have learned from your videos. The BetaFlight series alone was worth a bundle! Thanks for all you do.
Yeah that is the big thing. When i need to turtle i oft even want to chek if everything is fine, so i fly back to me and can clean the lens when i want. I run revers direction a while now ony my 5'' and yeah i felt that i can catch the quad easier on dives...maybe... but what sold me was the scragle avoidence. Its like magic! You fly close to a tree and didnt see a little twick: With standard rotation... you were often grounded, but with reversed rotation the quad just shakes a little bit and you keep flying. Tommy (ummagawd) did a great video about the aerodynamics, that ade me switch.
I could never pin point what the performance difference was but, since doing it some time ago I always felt my quads flew better with them reversed on 5". I guess you basically just explained why. There's definitely a difference to the feel on how it flies to me and I always wondered why now I know. The benefit of bouncing off scraggle was my number one reason for doing it and it has saved me from a ton of potential walks of shame when turtle mode isn't an option and i have noticed minimal to no issues with stuff being throw into my stack. Thanks for the explanation.
Running props out on a 5" since months. I didn't notice any difference in flight and I didn't think about the dirt in turtle mode and by then the lens is usually dirty already. I noticed though I get less often stuck in trees and can mow the lawn :) both of which happen more often than using turtle mode... Also when it's really necessary to fly on a rainy day ;) rain drops on the props when lifting off are not thrown on the lens.
I've been running props out since winter. I got sick of my cam fill up with snow every time I went to take off. So the advantage of props in is you can be lazy... lol. Another great video, much love JB.
4:36 with props in it's gonna be the rear outer motor maxing out, with props out it's gonna be the front outer motor in the exact same way. Your quad doesn't suddenly weigh less because your props spin the opposite direction, the only difference is which one of the motors on the quad is doing how much of the total work. In the case of props out it's the front outer motor pushing the most air, with props in it's the rear outer motor. Haven't experimented with the difference, but if props out gives you better cornering authority in small quads, consider that it's more about which motor is generating the most force instead of a limitation of one of them maxing out.
yeah, i found this strange, there is no authority increase, because the force still has to add up, it just shifts which motor is maxing out. Props out might give you better pitch forward authority, but that's basically it, in a full tilt scenario (which is ridiculous, no one could handle that acceleration) for props out turn, the front inner motor is idling, while the front outer is maxed trying to yaw and roll, but it's balanced by the fact the rear 2 motors have another half range of authority, theoretically equal to the full range the front inner motor does (but can't use). it's literally the same as props in, just shuffled around. you don't gain any authority, but your pitch authority does change. you can pitch back more with props in, and you can pitch forward more props out. it's ridiculous to use that argument though, because no one is going full tilt in all 3 axes. you could argue that the PID would use it (stop holding the quad in autolevel), or underpowered motors, either way it doesn't increase authority, just changes which direction you can still pitch in a full tilt turn.
@@xymaryai8283 I feel the same about this idea about back motor maxing out... But still - lots of people say whoops (which are already much lower-powered) often have that wash-out issue, and that props out fixes it so I'm still confused over why that is.
I run reversed props on my micros because they feel better flying to me. I just finished my 5 inch build, it's standard rotation right now. Once I get used to it I may try reversed see how it feels. I like the idea of it bouncing off of scraggle vs grabbing it. Thanks for the information. 👍🤓
Props out all the way. Flying in the rain without the lens filling up. When you fly in the rain the part that throws the most water on the lens is when you arm the quad. I always had to clean my props before arming. After reversing them i can just fly. So what if you get water on the lens after using turtle mode? If you just crashed you have to inspect thre quad anyway and maybe even replace a prop.
YO Props out for life! lmfao. I've been running props out on 5 inch for a while now. I remember when I 1st switched I felt a difference. I haven't change back since then.
4:55 With props out, the front right motor will max out instead of the back right motor, especially since you're pitching back in a corner. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
you're 100% correct, the front outside motor. JB has said in replies of other comments that the advantages come because the front props get cleaner air than the rear props, but in such a case his conclusion should be reversed, that more powerful racers would get more advantages, not small slow drones. I think he needs to put a disclaimer in, because the conclusions are very different.
I’m real new to the drone hobby and I’ve learnt a lot from your videos. Thanks man. I’ll be referring to these when I look at builds and reversing my whoop
All true, I have props-out and it is more fool prove. If i go to low grass doesn't mess camera. Also obstacle is pushed away and it works. I hit recently a fence and props-out saved my copter from damage.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I understand your wording at 8:36 as you set ESC#1, I understand I would simply set all motors to reversed. That would mean all motors spin in one direction. You might want to add a card about that in the video.
Cheers Jelmer you are correct, but my point was that the video would lead to misunderstandings. Especially since setting all to reverse would make sense to a newbie. The quad would flip and he then might set all to normal to get it working again .... and it still wouldn't work. I run out BTW ;)
@@FPVSE I understand your concerns. Let's hope the newbie arms his quad somewhere outside where he can't do any harm. When he flips his copter, he's learnin.... :p
Props out for 2 years already in all my quads since I realized that it keep my camera lenses clean. Help to bump away from tree branches too - less chance to stuck between branches with props out. Converted even all my micros to have same settings everywhere. Only later realized that it help to handle micros better as well :)
Props Out - You can fly straight through trees! (if ur lucky and don't squarely nail a branch). Also I used to get a lot of grass and water on my lenses, last season we were racing mostly at a farm with longer than average grass so any time I went a little too low on a split-S it would be green vision from there on. But also you don't have to hit the ground to cause stuff to hit your lens, clipping leaves or anything else like that would also smear the lens in green.
I've been running reversed props for a while now on all my setups. I think it makes the quad fly just a little better. But, if definitely makes the quad more stable if you hit something. There are just more advantages then disadvantages even though they are small. So why not it’s so simple to switch.
Joshua, in regards to props in/out when possibly flinging debris into your camera. I would argue that you are only on the ground for two reasons, during a crash(uncontrolled decent) and during a landing(controlled decent). So, doing quick numbers, lets say you crash a lot...50% of the time you touch the ground it's because of a crash and the other 50% of the time you are landing controlled. When you land controlled, you land upside up. When you crash you can be upside down AND upside up. The times that you are on the ground and upside up you may also be flinging debris into your camera. If we assume you have a 50-50 chance of crashing upside-up and up-side down then you are upside up roughly 75% of the time that you are on the ground. So it may be better to use props out...if we use my simple numbers, you crash a lot and you don't use a landing pad. Love your videos! Keep being awesome!
If your quad is underpowered - eg a little 1s brushed job in a wide open space - there may be some advantage to props out. This is to do with the way the betaflight mixer works internally (or used to last time I looked), and it is small, but when there is a trade off between wanting lots of throttle for speed, and needing an imbalance between motors to provide pitch/roll/yaw etc, then props out gives slightly more headroom than props in due to the way the mixing apportions thrust. Conversely the opposite applies at zero throttle, but that doesn't usually matter so much.
I feel like a big reason to run props in and why it's the norm is because the quad handles better and feels smoother with the rear outside motor getting the most power in a turn vs the rear inside motor needing to speed up for yaw and in turn counter acting the the roll. It just seem right from a physics perspective to have the rear outside and front inside motor handling yaw in a turn as that is the axis it will be pivoting on.
Props out on everything. OG & brushless Whoop classes for noticeably reduced washout. 5" & 6" props out for scraggle/obstacle contact- don't notice a handling difference. 7" props out for consistency with rest of the fleet as I move into this class for the first time.
I changed prop rotation on my 5" ers because I kept breaking the same props. I had like 20 props that were all CW (or CCW, can't remember exactly). I changed prop direction on all my quads and slowly but surely I got through the backlog of those props. I now have a small surplus of the other props, so I will switch back to normal rotation in a month or 2 😉 I haven't noticed and performance benefits, but I did notice that my lens stays a lot cleaner while flying
Huh. I have a tiny toy quad (it's about 1/4 the size of a 65 mm whoop) which broke all the props of the one direction... Have no idea why this happens. Do you know?
@@Vousie Toy grade plastic props will do that too, had the original Hubsan x4, the props that came with it was part of a bad batch, popped apart at the hub, sometimes mid flight. If that tiny quad is the same as the Estes nano quad, that might be the case.
@@Mediamarked I just thought it really strange that only the one direction was breaking. If all of them were breaking a lot I'd think it's a bad batch, but it's just the one direction that was... Or do you think the two directions were separate batches?
been running props out since mid 2017 - we were mainly flying from a fairly sandy patch, and the sand blasted lenses had a short life span - changed to props out and no further problems.
Racing props out! Most people I race with have fins on the rear of the kwad to keep the rear props out of the grass... Thus most flipping done with rear props... Then when you re-arm lawn clippings will stay out of your lens. Love your videos JB... Hope you get a chance to fly up here in Canada soon!
I've been running them reversed since I built my first quad a few months ago. I did it to theoretically keep stuff from being thrown into the camera and components.
@@woutchauvaux6672 I mean in reality it honestly depends on WHERE the debris makes contact with the prop. If it's up front inward props will fill the cam with shit, reverse that and it will fling away from the camera AND the stack. However if you land or fall, whatever happens and the shit comes up into the middle it will fill the FC full of said shit. If you make contact from the front it will fling it away from the camera AAAAND likely keep most of it from the stack still because things will tend to hit and fling off the soonest chance it gets and that'll usually be from peak rotation of when it initially hit.
Props out on my Hyperlow CG6. I noticed a big difference in tight proximity flying and split S maneuvers over tall obstacles. It feels like I can hug the apex of vertical obstacles a lot closer and still have control to either shoot the gap or bail out.
Thanks for the videos!!! I'm a noob and it's been so fun learning to fly FPV. I started out with a DJI P4P and quickly discovered FPV while watching videos for camera drones. Im learning with the Emax Tinyhwak freestyle 2 RTF kit. Unfortunately I crashed and had to buy a replacement Tinyhwak bnf and just watched your video on prop installation Thanks you!!!
Turning should feel more precise because in reverse rotation, your front motors are doing more work & the front air is cleaner. Props in, the rears are doing more work, but you have dirtier/more turbulent air that your catching from the front. Make sense?
Since I started racing, 2 years ago, I switched to reversed prop rotation to not only avoid drops of water or grass getting on your lens when getting too close to the ground, but also to bounce off track obstacles. I did see an improvement when I did the switch but this video makes me re-think this. I should probably switch back to normal rotation now and see if I notice any big difference.
I used to fly at a spot with a bit longer grass, so my lense often got dirty as soon as I armed the quad, thats why I changed all my quads to reversed props and I just sticked to it
I run reverse prop rotation because, in an even of a crash, the lens of the camera becomes dirty almost all the time because of the grass, and if you cannon turtle mode then when you pick up the quad the lens is dirty and also there is the benefit of better handling and cleaner air from the prop wash sometimes I notice
I've run props out for some time now. I do it for a couple of reasons, I almost never take off and land from a hard surface, and I've drastically reduced time spent fishing a quad out of a tree. I can only think of one time I've been treed since going props out.
VERY interesting info here!! I always keep 3" quads around too and I might switch everything 3" and below after seeing this. ...and then decide later about 5"
This man has a talent for describing stuff. Shaking his head around like Steevie wonder gives me vertigo, but he speaks clearly, so I can look away and still understand. Also, you need to just take 2 weeks vacation and set up a production line. ALL the quads must run props out (reverse? no, THAT is standard now.)
I have been running props out on all my quads since beginning 2017 when I first started hearing people talk about it around the time when the first 2 inch quads started showing up. I mostly fly 3", 2.5", 2", and 1,5" so I have felt that props out really benefits what I fly, but I also did it to help with bouncing off of things like you mentioned. Great video - now I can refer people to it too! Thanks!
I did props out a a week ago on my Ldarc 115 v2, I can sure tell the diff in corners, flies much better, Great videos, i have learned alot from your videos Thanks
I should have glanced off a twig on a tree one time but I was running stock props in. Not only did it pull me into the tree. The branches also got ahold of several wires and ripped them lose. I've been props out ever since.
Props out on everything here. Where I fly there is typically lots of tall grass and i like to skim the ground. Takeoffs and landings were also awful for my cam. I was constantly cleaning the lens and getting things stuck on it.
I always run props in on all my quads. Even though grass & dirt will get onto the camera, it wont get into the USB port when you hook it up to Betaflight. Excellent video Joshua!!
Question about the "motor authority" advantage. So as I understand it, if you're running props in, your back left spins ccw and your back right spins cw... When you turn left you spin the craft ccw (requiring more cw prop motion) and lift the right side, so the right motor handles the right lifting and the cw prop motion. With props out, the left motor then handles cw prop motion. But if you think about the front motors, wouldn't they face the same issue when you're running props out? Cw front-right, ccw front-left, left turn demands lifting the right side and cw motor movement, which is both handled by the front-right. What makes the rear motors more important?
I guess it would make sense if you also pitch down when you turn (demanding more rear thrust) but I don't. I pitch up when I turn and I think most people do too. That would make the front motors more critical. So why does everyone agree that whoops fly better props out?
@@JLmike7 it seems mostly to be an uninformed bogus point, because the explanations ive seen from JB say its because the rear motors get rougher ajr, so they need more help. but thats really only the case if you're going really fast and cornering fast, which you'd expect racers to care about more, not slow flying micros.
I have been running props out since it was an option using the CLI command. I first did it to help keep my camera clean but then soon realized it helped me bounce of gates,
it makes such a big difference if hitting obstacles from the front. if you hit stuff use the good rotation direction. On the other hand i start to move sideways more and more, so i dont see where i fly, probably i will switch back to the wrong orientation sort of thing
I've been running props out on my 5" quads for the last year or so. No noticeable difference in handling but the main reason for me is the crap on the lens. I tend to do a lot of 'lawnmowing' and have to come in for lens cleaning often if props in. The downside is all the crap then gets flung into the stack as Joshua said, but nothing a high pressure hose won't fix. Just make sure your quads dry before you plug in after washing. No probs so far
Joshua --> another thing to think about, and the reason I switched to props out long ago is that the rear props (in forward flight) suffer from disturbed air from the front props as well as the airframe. This is made worse due to the advancing side of the rotor disk on the aft motors (in 'props in' configuration) is on the inboard side (frame side) of rotation. This is where the air will be most disturbed during forward flight. Switching to props out, the front props have their advancing side on the inboard side (less effecient) and the rear props have their advancing side on the outboard side (more effecient), which aids in balancing out the performance of the front and rear motors (in forward flight). This is because the lift generated on the advancing side of the rotor disk is the rotation speed + forward speed (relative wind speed) while on the retreating side it is rotation speed - forward speed. Remember that the biggest factors in the lift coefficient that we change regularly are speed and air density. I also prefer to bounce off of things.
I really liked this video, the reasons and advantages to either direction was good but what I found most interesting was the impact on micros. Thank you!
thank you for all your work to help i love to gain knowledge and through you is how I'v learnt on a tyro 99 from eachine the diy kit and I'm currently buying pieces one at at time for my own custom build I'm currently saving to replace the stack i wrecked and destroyed damn its killing me not being able to take to the sky being unemployed on the hunt for a job is holding me back here and there my fingers are crossed that things change for the better asap lol but I'm slightly self employed for now til things do get better so I'v been spending a lot more time gaining knowledge from your content on things I'm still learning so thank you bro!! It has gave me a big leap from my newbie position to surpass the path of the amateur in a more timely fashion but I am one of the dudes that run props out and i am mostly just a freestyle pilot some of it is laziness like you said the reason why is because the first quad i bought was the 85 mm mantis rtf kit and that is why i originally started running props out, so much love and support to you and the rotor riot crew. -Dusty Hexx
My Iflight Cidora SL5 5" came stock props out. I fly around a lot of trees and scraggly. Have had numerous times I believe I would've been stuck in tree or knocked down, if I had been running props in. Wish I had JBs problem of too many quads to change, but I only have to do 4:-)
I've been running reverse prop orientation damn near as long as I've been flying. So I can't really say one way or the other about the handling. The reason I started doing it was because of grass on the lens. This was also prior to DShot & Turtle Mode. but, I have not noticed any time I've used turtle mode that I've had things thrown on my lens. But prior to switching to props out, I did notice getting grass some stuff on my lens.
With Cw and Ccw thread pattern on the prop stem, you would have to flip the motors as well to prevent them from loosening the prop nuts. When switching from 1 rotation to the other.
I run props out mostly because of the camera, and the fact I like to fly low, and cut a lot of grass, also I fly around trees, and it does eject it more often than not. As far as handling I can't tell too much, but I can distinguish minute changes much better in the last couple months, so I'm going to swap one back to props in to see if I feel any difference. Thanks JB!
I also use props out and never had any dirt on my lens, but FC if full of grass (Armattan Rooster). In more then one occasion I went thru small branches and did not stack to it.
Thanks Josh! I can say props-out is waaaaay better in reduced broken props and fewer fried ESCs/motors. I'm just pissed I was in this hobby for almost 2 years before I learned about it. 3 words of advice: Reverse Your Props!
yes i do run reversed flight in my 5 inch qwad , but that happend because of the same laziness you experienced, when i soldered the motors for the 1st time it was reversed so i left that like, and just checked the reversed option in betaflight, am a beginner in fpv am still learning so i couldn't tell whether i have a superior control over my qwad !, thanks for all your videos am from india and you are my qwad mentor 😅🙌
I’m running props out on my Acrobrat. It definitely helps with ghost branches and keeping the lens clean but what it helped with the most and the reason I tried it is prop wash. I was getting a lot of prop wash and someone said that props out helps with that and it did. It is a 3” so I don’t know about 5”.
Went props out because I wanted the iflight F4 2.1 battery wires to face backwards. Of course had to do reverse MOTOR in CLI as well... your vid on throttle_limit helped to tame the little 98mm beast
I run props out because I butt bomb sometimes and usually means cutting grass. Also I can't turtle mode if the grass is too long as it winds around the props.
I've been running reverse props since pretty much as soon as you could do it. So I am not sure if there is a handling difference. As far as keeping your lens clean on turrle mode, I use a fin which normally keeps the rear motors up in the air, so the flight controller spins those rear motors to flip it over. So normally it is not going to get your camera dirty anyway.
I’m a freestyle pilot so reversing props helps push away branches and scraggle.I reverse the props on everything now for the same reason you don’t, I don’t want to think about which one is which
All reverse rotation on all sized kwads. More for the not forgetting thing. But I do like the way RP feals. Guess I should finally set up turtle mode lol
I´m on props out since my first try, and have never tried props in, on all my quads from whoops to 5". The bounce back and tree shredding effect is almost godlike.
Props out for me just to clear a small branch or scraggle as you call it out of my way. I cover the USB port to keep it clean and an air compressor takes care of the rest.
Props out is best for me. I live in the forest. And had to climb to many trees. Not been stuck in a tree since. Clean glass dirts FC. And I can fly in snow. With much better results
At 3:27 when you talk about turtle mode, isn't it possible to put everything in props out? I'm waiting for my first mini quad so I might be wrong, but for what I understand you could use props out for normal flight and "props in" for turtle mode.
I'm going to swap mine now that you said it works best for micro up to 3in , since that's the size range I mostly fly ... I've learned today, thanks JB 👍
I actually been running my HGLRC Menafesto 6s quad on props out configuration. You cant tell much difference in flight but i can tell a difference in motor heat on the back motors especially if i make a lot of same turns in same direction back motors seam to be under a little more stran with props in
I have run reverse props on 5" for years. Racer, not freestyler. No noticeable handling difference. Difference in obstacle collision handling and cleaner camera lens. Idea for quick video. How to know which is the best way to push the sticks to turtle when looking through the camera. (You want to engage the motors that are in the air, not the ones in contact with the ground). When turtling, I push the stick in the direction of sky (left side lighter (more skywards), push left / camera downward (tail off ground), push backwards). In the heat of racing when struggling to flip after hitting an obstacle, I find this a helpful thing to remember.
I like props out on my race quad, it keeps me from getting stuck on the gate cloth. My freestyle is on reverse too, simply noticed a smooth HD video result when its very windy. Actually tested this in many flight recordings, my footage is cleaner. But Joshua, it would be fantastic for you to show all us a wind tunnel test. WOW!
I like props out I have been running props out for years, be for anyone really knew it was an option. I noticed a difference back then. With all the advancements in fc technology I doubt it matters much anymore
Sounded like a good argument for switching to props out, so I decided to give it a try on my Diatone R349. Didn't sound quite right from the first flight. Checked the blackbox logs and found there was a lot of Roll D-term oscillation. Turned out the two front motors' bearings had died and they got rapidly worse over a couple of flights. Maybe running 4000kV motors in one direction and then swapping doesn't do the bearings any good? T20s on order and I'll try them props out from new to see how it works then.
I never knew about the authority issue. I figured it was all about your first 2 points. And I find it funny that when I switched my 70mm I made a while ago, I had replaced the motors and accidentally reversed them and noticed that it flew a little bit smoother. It was almost the effect of like props in made it feel like it was in a bowl and with props out if felt more like a flat plane. If that even makes sense. For example. With props in when pitching forward, it would accelerate rapidly and then slow to a cruise and with props out pitching forward felt much more linear. I might just be imagining it though
On my Beta FPV 75 X with props in the washout after dives is reduced. With props out the washout after fast corners is reduced. On My 5 inch i use props in, but not have tested props out
I have 1 kiss Reverb with all CW threaded Lumenier motors that I’m running reversed (props out)my other 3 quads are Aliens w/ Matek fc’s running betaflight setups with cw/ccw threaded motors, with props in rotation.
Definitely used to end up with grass or leaf bits on my lens all the time when I was normal rotation. Since changing over a year ago I haven't had anything on my lens.
Every build in my fleet have reversed props. I just do it to keep mt lenses clean. It has helped me on a couple of occasions to hit some scraggle, and stay in the air.
After my quad was hanging on a 28-meter tree in the middle of a dense forest and there was no access to it (forklift, firefighters, ladder), I decided to use it on every quad props-out and I have no problem ever since.
Not sure I agree about the lens cleaning bit Joshua. I’ve been flying props out for a couple of years and even with turtle mode the lens is way cleaner than it would be otherwise. Apart from that, nice work as always! Also... To answer your call to action... on 5 inch quads I don’t notice any difference in handling, but it definitely helps pushing through scraggle (unless the branch gets hooked on a rear prop, then you’re down in an instant).
I turned mine to out again. We're starting to get actual grass here now, and the trees are even more grabby with leaves. I don't worry about turtle mode and the camera lens much. Crash in the leaves and grass, camera lens is well fogged before you even flip the turtle switch..
Props out all the way, I used to run normal then I tried it on one build and ended up changing all my quads to props out, think about how you swim arms out :) but for real my main reason was keeping grass off the camera and if I bump a tree it sorta kinda helps push away rather than suck me into that evil tree. 👍
yes I run reverse props i havent notice Any difference In flight I like it because you bounce off branches And stuff like that It has saved me number of times And I also fly mostly around trees
I once ran props out on all my quads, however after damaging three FC's and one 4-1 ESC, I'll never go back. It's much easier and dam lot cheaper to clean lenses than replace damage parts.
All my quads are running reverse, the fc and ESCs look like an army tank but my lenses are always clean. For me its simple, if you cannot see, you cannot fly. The performance looks the same if not better.
something that no one ever talks about is that grass is almost always wet where I come from or you can be flying and it can start to rain. props out throws the water into the usb port to the point where iv had an FC die using props out. id rather a smudge on the lens than a dead FC. conformal coat a usb connector wont work... just sayin. Props in for the win.
There are some USB covers you can use.
Look for them on ebay and aliexpress.
I use the piece of a magnetic micro USB cable.
Gorillatape to the rescue!!!
Waterproofing son! ;)
i wish companies would supply USB cover plugs in FC packaging. if you ever bought a computer graphics card they usually ship with similar plastic plugs for HDMI ports.
@@afrog2666 waterproof a USB port?
Joshua, this donation does not even come CLOSE to what it should be for all I have learned from your videos. The BetaFlight series alone was worth a bundle!
Thanks for all you do.
It's not just about "bouncing off", but I find I can fly "through" stuff (bushes and small tree branches) that used to take me down.
Agreed!
I prefer dirty lens on turtle mode than dirty lens mid flight.
Yeah that is the big thing. When i need to turtle i oft even want to chek if everything is fine, so i fly back to me and can clean the lens when i want.
I run revers direction a while now ony my 5'' and yeah i felt that i can catch the quad easier on dives...maybe... but what sold me was the scragle avoidence. Its like magic! You fly close to a tree and didnt see a little twick: With standard rotation... you were often grounded, but with reversed rotation the quad just shakes a little bit and you keep flying.
Tommy (ummagawd) did a great video about the aerodynamics, that ade me switch.
So true
I could never pin point what the performance difference was but, since doing it some time ago I always felt my quads flew better with them reversed on 5". I guess you basically just explained why. There's definitely a difference to the feel on how it flies to me and I always wondered why now I know. The benefit of bouncing off scraggle was my number one reason for doing it and it has saved me from a ton of potential walks of shame when turtle mode isn't an option and i have noticed minimal to no issues with stuff being throw into my stack. Thanks for the explanation.
Running props out on a 5" since months. I didn't notice any difference in flight and I didn't think about the dirt in turtle mode and by then the lens is usually dirty already.
I noticed though I get less often stuck in trees and can mow the lawn :) both of which happen more often than using turtle mode... Also when it's really necessary to fly on a rainy day ;) rain drops on the props when lifting off are not thrown on the lens.
I've been running props out since winter. I got sick of my cam fill up with snow every time I went to take off. So the advantage of props in is you can be lazy... lol. Another great video, much love JB.
4:36 with props in it's gonna be the rear outer motor maxing out, with props out it's gonna be the front outer motor in the exact same way. Your quad doesn't suddenly weigh less because your props spin the opposite direction, the only difference is which one of the motors on the quad is doing how much of the total work.
In the case of props out it's the front outer motor pushing the most air, with props in it's the rear outer motor. Haven't experimented with the difference, but if props out gives you better cornering authority in small quads, consider that it's more about which motor is generating the most force instead of a limitation of one of them maxing out.
yeah, i found this strange, there is no authority increase, because the force still has to add up, it just shifts which motor is maxing out. Props out might give you better pitch forward authority, but that's basically it, in a full tilt scenario (which is ridiculous, no one could handle that acceleration) for props out turn, the front inner motor is idling, while the front outer is maxed trying to yaw and roll, but it's balanced by the fact the rear 2 motors have another half range of authority, theoretically equal to the full range the front inner motor does (but can't use). it's literally the same as props in, just shuffled around. you don't gain any authority, but your pitch authority does change. you can pitch back more with props in, and you can pitch forward more props out. it's ridiculous to use that argument though, because no one is going full tilt in all 3 axes. you could argue that the PID would use it (stop holding the quad in autolevel), or underpowered motors, either way it doesn't increase authority, just changes which direction you can still pitch in a full tilt turn.
@@xymaryai8283 I feel the same about this idea about back motor maxing out... But still - lots of people say whoops (which are already much lower-powered) often have that wash-out issue, and that props out fixes it so I'm still confused over why that is.
I run reversed props on my micros because they feel better flying to me. I just finished my 5 inch build, it's standard rotation right now. Once I get used to it I may try reversed see how it feels. I like the idea of it bouncing off of scraggle vs grabbing it. Thanks for the information. 👍🤓
Props out all the way. Flying in the rain without the lens filling up. When you fly in the rain the part that throws the most water on the lens is when you arm the quad. I always had to clean my props before arming. After reversing them i can just fly. So what if you get water on the lens after using turtle mode? If you just crashed you have to inspect thre quad anyway and maybe even replace a prop.
YO Props out for life! lmfao. I've been running props out on 5 inch for a while now. I remember when I 1st switched I felt a difference. I haven't change back since then.
HardTimeZFpv yes same
@@davidtilvikas8883 Does it change anything in tuning?
Adriano Casemiro nope
Adriano Casemiro well you can change the P for yaw for your liking
Same
4:55
With props out, the front right motor will max out instead of the back right motor, especially since you're pitching back in a corner.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
you're 100% correct, the front outside motor. JB has said in replies of other comments that the advantages come because the front props get cleaner air than the rear props, but in such a case his conclusion should be reversed, that more powerful racers would get more advantages, not small slow drones. I think he needs to put a disclaimer in, because the conclusions are very different.
I’m real new to the drone hobby and I’ve learnt a lot from your videos. Thanks man. I’ll be referring to these when I look at builds and reversing my whoop
Welcome to the hobby!
All true, I have props-out and it is more fool prove. If i go to low grass doesn't mess camera. Also obstacle is pushed away and it works. I hit recently a fence and props-out saved my copter from damage.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I understand your wording at 8:36 as you set ESC#1, I understand I would simply set all motors to reversed. That would mean all motors spin in one direction. You might want to add a card about that in the video.
Reverse the non reversed and straighten the 2 reversed you had.
Cheers Jelmer you are correct, but my point was that the video would lead to misunderstandings. Especially since setting all to reverse would make sense to a newbie. The quad would flip and he then might set all to normal to get it working again .... and it still wouldn't work.
I run out BTW ;)
@@FPVSE I understand your concerns. Let's hope the newbie arms his quad somewhere outside where he can't do any harm. When he flips his copter, he's learnin.... :p
Props out for 2 years already in all my quads since I realized that it keep my camera lenses clean. Help to bump away from tree branches too - less chance to stuck between branches with props out. Converted even all my micros to have same settings everywhere. Only later realized that it help to handle micros better as well :)
Props Out - You can fly straight through trees! (if ur lucky and don't squarely nail a branch). Also I used to get a lot of grass and water on my lenses, last season we were racing mostly at a farm with longer than average grass so any time I went a little too low on a split-S it would be green vision from there on. But also you don't have to hit the ground to cause stuff to hit your lens, clipping leaves or anything else like that would also smear the lens in green.
I've been running reversed props for a while now on all my setups. I think it makes the quad fly just a little better. But, if definitely makes the quad more stable if you hit something. There are just more advantages then disadvantages even though they are small. So why not it’s so simple to switch.
that's what i noticed, the quad just bounces off like nothing happened plus tight turns are easier
Joshua, in regards to props in/out when possibly flinging debris into your camera. I would argue that you are only on the ground for two reasons, during a crash(uncontrolled decent) and during a landing(controlled decent). So, doing quick numbers, lets say you crash a lot...50% of the time you touch the ground it's because of a crash and the other 50% of the time you are landing controlled. When you land controlled, you land upside up. When you crash you can be upside down AND upside up. The times that you are on the ground and upside up you may also be flinging debris into your camera. If we assume you have a 50-50 chance of crashing upside-up and up-side down then you are upside up roughly 75% of the time that you are on the ground. So it may be better to use props out...if we use my simple numbers, you crash a lot and you don't use a landing pad.
Love your videos! Keep being awesome!
I put on my props on backwards and just take off with the quad upside down🤯
then turn controller upside down and it all evens out
@@WilkieaSt No way, I actually do that. Lol
@@fullthrottlefpv5616 hahaa
@@WilkieaSt infact that is how I fly my quad
Have you solved this problem?
If your quad is underpowered - eg a little 1s brushed job in a wide open space - there may be some advantage to props out.
This is to do with the way the betaflight mixer works internally (or used to last time I looked), and it is small, but when there is a trade off between wanting lots of throttle for speed, and needing an imbalance between motors to provide pitch/roll/yaw etc, then props out gives slightly more headroom than props in due to the way the mixing apportions thrust.
Conversely the opposite applies at zero throttle, but that doesn't usually matter so much.
I feel like a big reason to run props in and why it's the norm is because the quad handles better and feels smoother with the rear outside motor getting the most power in a turn vs the rear inside motor needing to speed up for yaw and in turn counter acting the the roll. It just seem right from a physics perspective to have the rear outside and front inside motor handling yaw in a turn as that is the axis it will be pivoting on.
Props out on everything. OG & brushless Whoop classes for noticeably reduced washout. 5" & 6" props out for scraggle/obstacle contact- don't notice a handling difference. 7" props out for consistency with rest of the fleet as I move into this class for the first time.
I changed prop rotation on my 5" ers because I kept breaking the same props. I had like 20 props that were all CW (or CCW, can't remember exactly). I changed prop direction on all my quads and slowly but surely I got through the backlog of those props. I now have a small surplus of the other props, so I will switch back to normal rotation in a month or 2 😉
I haven't noticed and performance benefits, but I did notice that my lens stays a lot cleaner while flying
Huh. I have a tiny toy quad (it's about 1/4 the size of a 65 mm whoop) which broke all the props of the one direction... Have no idea why this happens. Do you know?
@@Vousie Toy grade plastic props will do that too, had the original Hubsan x4, the props that came with it was part of a bad batch, popped apart at the hub, sometimes mid flight. If that tiny quad is the same as the Estes nano quad, that might be the case.
@@Mediamarked I just thought it really strange that only the one direction was breaking. If all of them were breaking a lot I'd think it's a bad batch, but it's just the one direction that was... Or do you think the two directions were separate batches?
been running props out since mid 2017 - we were mainly flying from a fairly sandy patch, and the sand blasted lenses had a short life span - changed to props out and no further problems.
Props out because I am always bumping into stuff. 🤪
Racing props out! Most people I race with have fins on the rear of the kwad to keep the rear props out of the grass... Thus most flipping done with rear props... Then when you re-arm lawn clippings will stay out of your lens. Love your videos JB... Hope you get a chance to fly up here in Canada soon!
I've been running them reversed since I built my first quad a few months ago. I did it to theoretically keep stuff from being thrown into the camera and components.
Reversed props will throw more stuff into components (fc stack) but yes, keep the lens cleaner
@@woutchauvaux6672 I mean in reality it honestly depends on WHERE the debris makes contact with the prop. If it's up front inward props will fill the cam with shit, reverse that and it will fling away from the camera AND the stack. However if you land or fall, whatever happens and the shit comes up into the middle it will fill the FC full of said shit. If you make contact from the front it will fling it away from the camera AAAAND likely keep most of it from the stack still because things will tend to hit and fling off the soonest chance it gets and that'll usually be from peak rotation of when it initially hit.
Props out on my Hyperlow CG6. I noticed a big difference in tight proximity flying and split S maneuvers over tall obstacles. It feels like I can hug the apex of vertical obstacles a lot closer and still have control to either shoot the gap or bail out.
Thanks for the videos!!! I'm a noob and it's been so fun learning to fly FPV. I started out with a DJI P4P and quickly discovered FPV while watching videos for camera drones. Im learning with the Emax Tinyhwak freestyle 2 RTF kit. Unfortunately I crashed and had to buy a replacement Tinyhwak bnf and just watched your video on prop installation Thanks you!!!
It definitely keeps me out of trees! IDK but turning feels tighter. I also have a pvc and pool noodle gate, I bounce off all the time
Turning should feel more precise because in reverse rotation, your front motors are doing more work & the front air is cleaner. Props in, the rears are doing more work, but you have dirtier/more turbulent air that your catching from the front. Make sense?
Since I started racing, 2 years ago, I switched to reversed prop rotation to not only avoid drops of water or grass getting on your lens when getting too close to the ground, but also to bounce off track obstacles. I did see an improvement when I did the switch but this video makes me re-think this. I should probably switch back to normal rotation now and see if I notice any big difference.
Bouncing off obstacles is a definite advantage of props-out.
@@JoshuaBardwell Great video man, like always!
I used to fly at a spot with a bit longer grass, so my lense often got dirty as soon as I armed the quad, thats why I changed all my quads to reversed props and I just sticked to it
I run reverse prop rotation because, in an even of a crash, the lens of the camera becomes dirty almost all the time because of the grass, and if you cannon turtle mode then when you pick up the quad the lens is dirty and also there is the benefit of better handling and cleaner air from the prop wash sometimes I notice
I've run props out for some time now. I do it for a couple of reasons, I almost never take off and land from a hard surface, and I've drastically reduced time spent fishing a quad out of a tree. I can only think of one time I've been treed since going props out.
Thanks!
Such a good video. After nearly 4 years in the hobby this finally makes sense 👍
Props out! people who run props in are basically just evil puppy killers. #facts
😂😂😂 so true!
Haha
Good thing I only kill kittens...
VERY interesting info here!! I always keep 3" quads around too and I might switch everything 3" and below after seeing this. ...and then decide later about 5"
This man has a talent for describing stuff. Shaking his head around like Steevie wonder gives me vertigo, but he speaks clearly, so I can look away and still understand.
Also, you need to just take 2 weeks vacation and set up a production line. ALL the quads must run props out (reverse? no, THAT is standard now.)
I have been running props out on all my quads since beginning 2017 when I first started hearing people talk about it around the time when the first 2 inch quads started showing up. I mostly fly 3", 2.5", 2", and 1,5" so I have felt that props out really benefits what I fly, but I also did it to help with bouncing off of things like you mentioned. Great video - now I can refer people to it too! Thanks!
I did props out a a week ago on my Ldarc 115 v2, I can sure tell the diff in corners, flies much better, Great videos, i have learned alot from your videos Thanks
Hilarious that at 6:53 mark Joshua is saying "these guys should always run Reverse (Props-Out)" as he waves his Whoop with Props-In at the camera 🙂
I should have glanced off a twig on a tree one time but I was running stock props in. Not only did it pull me into the tree. The branches also got ahold of several wires and ripped them lose. I've been props out ever since.
Props out on everything here. Where I fly there is typically lots of tall grass and i like to skim the ground. Takeoffs and landings were also awful for my cam. I was constantly cleaning the lens and getting things stuck on it.
I always run props in on all my quads. Even though grass & dirt will get onto the camera, it wont get into the USB port when you hook it up to Betaflight. Excellent video Joshua!!
I got some dirt cheap silicone USB stoppers
Question about the "motor authority" advantage.
So as I understand it, if you're running props in, your back left spins ccw and your back right spins cw... When you turn left you spin the craft ccw (requiring more cw prop motion) and lift the right side, so the right motor handles the right lifting and the cw prop motion. With props out, the left motor then handles cw prop motion.
But if you think about the front motors, wouldn't they face the same issue when you're running props out? Cw front-right, ccw front-left, left turn demands lifting the right side and cw motor movement, which is both handled by the front-right.
What makes the rear motors more important?
I guess it would make sense if you also pitch down when you turn (demanding more rear thrust) but I don't. I pitch up when I turn and I think most people do too. That would make the front motors more critical.
So why does everyone agree that whoops fly better props out?
@@JLmike7 it seems mostly to be an uninformed bogus point, because the explanations ive seen from JB say its because the rear motors get rougher ajr, so they need more help. but thats really only the case if you're going really fast and cornering fast, which you'd expect racers to care about more, not slow flying micros.
I have been running props out since it was an option using the CLI command. I first did it to help keep my camera clean but then soon realized it helped me bounce of gates,
Which cli command?
it makes such a big difference if hitting obstacles from the front. if you hit stuff use the good rotation direction. On the other hand i start to move sideways more and more, so i dont see where i fly, probably i will switch back to the wrong orientation sort of thing
I've been running props out on my 5" quads for the last year or so. No noticeable difference in handling but the main reason for me is the crap on the lens. I tend to do a lot of 'lawnmowing' and have to come in for lens cleaning often if props in. The downside is all the crap then gets flung into the stack as Joshua said, but nothing a high pressure hose won't fix. Just make sure your quads dry before you plug in after washing. No probs so far
Joshua --> another thing to think about, and the reason I switched to props out long ago is that the rear props (in forward flight) suffer from disturbed air from the front props as well as the airframe. This is made worse due to the advancing side of the rotor disk on the aft motors (in 'props in' configuration) is on the inboard side (frame side) of rotation. This is where the air will be most disturbed during forward flight. Switching to props out, the front props have their advancing side on the inboard side (less effecient) and the rear props have their advancing side on the outboard side (more effecient), which aids in balancing out the performance of the front and rear motors (in forward flight). This is because the lift generated on the advancing side of the rotor disk is the rotation speed + forward speed (relative wind speed) while on the retreating side it is rotation speed - forward speed. Remember that the biggest factors in the lift coefficient that we change regularly are speed and air density. I also prefer to bounce off of things.
I really liked this video, the reasons and advantages to either direction was good but what I found most interesting was the impact on micros. Thank you!
thank you for all your work to help i love to gain knowledge and through you is how I'v learnt on a tyro 99 from eachine the diy kit and I'm currently buying pieces one at at time for my own custom build I'm currently saving to replace the stack i wrecked and destroyed damn its killing me not being able to take to the sky being unemployed on the hunt for a job is holding me back here and there my fingers are crossed that things change for the better asap lol but I'm slightly self employed for now til things do get better so I'v been spending a lot more time gaining knowledge from your content on things I'm still learning so thank you bro!! It has gave me a big leap from my newbie position to surpass the path of the amateur in a more timely fashion but I am one of the dudes that run props out and i am mostly just a freestyle pilot some of it is laziness like you said the reason why is because the first quad i bought was the 85 mm mantis rtf kit and that is why i originally started running props out, so much love and support to you and the rotor riot crew. -Dusty Hexx
My Iflight Cidora SL5 5" came stock props out. I fly around a lot of trees and scraggly. Have had numerous times I believe I would've been stuck in tree or knocked down, if I had been running props in. Wish I had JBs problem of too many quads to change, but I only have to do 4:-)
I've been running reverse prop orientation damn near as long as I've been flying. So I can't really say one way or the other about the handling. The reason I started doing it was because of grass on the lens. This was also prior to DShot & Turtle Mode. but, I have not noticed any time I've used turtle mode that I've had things thrown on my lens. But prior to switching to props out, I did notice getting grass some stuff on my lens.
I would like to know if xclass shows any difference
I think they might. Because of the distribution of Yaw and Roll. I also think it's better even for 7" kwads
I'be been waiting for you to address this topic for a long time. Thank you Joshua! The detailed info was insightful!
With Cw and Ccw thread pattern on the prop stem, you would have to flip the motors as well to prevent them from loosening the prop nuts. When switching from 1 rotation to the other.
@Joshua Bardwell, would you still say props in is „better“ or did you change yours in the meanwhile?
I run props out mostly because of the camera, and the fact I like to fly low, and cut a lot of grass, also I fly around trees, and it does eject it more often than not. As far as handling I can't tell too much, but I can distinguish minute changes much better in the last couple months, so I'm going to swap one back to props in to see if I feel any difference. Thanks JB!
I also use props out and never had any dirt on my lens, but FC if full of grass (Armattan Rooster). In more then one occasion I went thru small branches and did not stack to it.
Thanks Josh! I can say props-out is waaaaay better in reduced broken props and fewer fried ESCs/motors. I'm just pissed I was in this hobby for almost 2 years before I learned about it. 3 words of advice: Reverse Your Props!
yes i do run reversed flight in my 5 inch qwad , but that happend because of the same laziness you experienced, when i soldered the motors for the 1st time it was reversed so i left that like, and just checked the reversed option in betaflight, am a beginner in fpv am still learning so i couldn't tell whether i have a superior control over my qwad !, thanks for all your videos am from india and you are my qwad mentor 😅🙌
Props out all day. I love that I bounce off trees more often than get stuck in them since switching over. That's reason enough for me.
I’m running props out on my Acrobrat. It definitely helps with ghost branches and keeping the lens clean but what it helped with the most and the reason I tried it is prop wash. I was getting a lot of prop wash and someone said that props out helps with that and it did. It is a 3” so I don’t know about 5”.
Went props out because I wanted the iflight F4 2.1 battery wires to face backwards. Of course had to do reverse MOTOR in CLI as well... your vid on throttle_limit helped to tame the little 98mm beast
I run props out because I butt bomb sometimes and usually means cutting grass. Also I can't turtle mode if the grass is too long as it winds around the props.
I've been running reverse props since pretty much as soon as you could do it. So I am not sure if there is a handling difference. As far as keeping your lens clean on turrle mode, I use a fin which normally keeps the rear motors up in the air, so the flight controller spins those rear motors to flip it over. So normally it is not going to get your camera dirty anyway.
I’m a freestyle pilot so reversing props helps push away branches and scraggle.I reverse the props on everything now for the same reason you don’t, I don’t want to think about which one is which
All reverse rotation on all sized kwads. More for the not forgetting thing. But I do like the way RP feals. Guess I should finally set up turtle mode lol
Only takes 1 crash on tall roof for turtle to pay big ;)
I´m on props out since my first try, and have never tried props in, on all my quads from whoops to 5".
The bounce back and tree shredding effect is almost godlike.
but how could you compare if you never tried props in?
Props out for me just to clear a small branch or scraggle as you call it out of my way. I cover the USB port to keep it clean and an air compressor takes care of the rest.
Props out is best for me. I live in the forest. And had to climb to many trees. Not been stuck in a tree since. Clean glass dirts FC. And I can fly in snow. With much better results
At 3:27 when you talk about turtle mode, isn't it possible to put everything in props out? I'm waiting for my first mini quad so I might be wrong, but for what I understand you could use props out for normal flight and "props in" for turtle mode.
I'm going to swap mine now that you said it works best for micro up to 3in , since that's the size range I mostly fly ... I've learned today, thanks JB 👍
Perfect timing. My new 6" I am setting up as a camera rig and found that it is just a little smoother with props out.
I actually been running my HGLRC Menafesto 6s quad on props out configuration. You cant tell much difference in flight but i can tell a difference in motor heat on the back motors especially if i make a lot of same turns in same direction back motors seam to be under a little more stran with props in
I have run reverse props on 5" for years. Racer, not freestyler. No noticeable handling difference. Difference in obstacle collision handling and cleaner camera lens.
Idea for quick video. How to know which is the best way to push the sticks to turtle when looking through the camera. (You want to engage the motors that are in the air, not the ones in contact with the ground).
When turtling, I push the stick in the direction of sky (left side lighter (more skywards), push left / camera downward (tail off ground), push backwards). In the heat of racing when struggling to flip after hitting an obstacle, I find this a helpful thing to remember.
I like props out on my race quad, it keeps me from getting stuck on the gate cloth. My freestyle is on reverse too, simply noticed a smooth HD video result when its very windy. Actually tested this in many flight recordings, my footage is cleaner. But Joshua, it would be fantastic for you to show all us a wind tunnel test. WOW!
hey from portugal ty for all the help ,you the best ty,keep up the good work
man I just love to hear this voice of yours. might try to go to sleep with it tonight
I like props out I have been running props out for years, be for anyone really knew it was an option. I noticed a difference back then. With all the advancements in fc technology I doubt it matters much anymore
Sounded like a good argument for switching to props out, so I decided to give it a try on my Diatone R349. Didn't sound quite right from the first flight. Checked the blackbox logs and found there was a lot of Roll D-term oscillation. Turned out the two front motors' bearings had died and they got rapidly worse over a couple of flights. Maybe running 4000kV motors in one direction and then swapping doesn't do the bearings any good? T20s on order and I'll try them props out from new to see how it works then.
I never knew about the authority issue. I figured it was all about your first 2 points. And I find it funny that when I switched my 70mm I made a while ago, I had replaced the motors and accidentally reversed them and noticed that it flew a little bit smoother. It was almost the effect of like props in made it feel like it was in a bowl and with props out if felt more like a flat plane. If that even makes sense. For example. With props in when pitching forward, it would accelerate rapidly and then slow to a cruise and with props out pitching forward felt much more linear. I might just be imagining it though
On my Beta FPV 75 X with props in the washout after dives is reduced. With props out the washout after fast corners is reduced. On My 5 inch i use props in, but not have tested props out
I have 1 kiss Reverb with all CW threaded Lumenier motors that I’m running reversed (props out)my other 3 quads are Aliens w/ Matek fc’s running betaflight setups with cw/ccw threaded motors, with props in rotation.
Definitely used to end up with grass or leaf bits on my lens all the time when I was normal rotation. Since changing over a year ago I haven't had anything on my lens.
I don't use turtle mode. After a crash i wanna check my quad about any damage before i fly again. So i go with reversed motors.
Thanks. Great video. I have wondered if it did have any real advantages.
Bro it's the shit, keeps outa trees, helps get outa trees and w proximity and no sandblasting the lense, disappointed in bardwell for this one
Another vote for props out, Bouncing off obstacles getting sucked into branches is a life savor at the top the tree line!
Every build in my fleet have reversed props. I just do it to keep mt lenses clean. It has helped me on a couple of occasions to hit some scraggle, and stay in the air.
After my quad was hanging on a 28-meter tree in the middle of a dense forest and there was no access to it (forklift, firefighters, ladder), I decided to use it on every quad props-out and I have no problem ever since.
Are people still running props in? Not in our club.
I find it helpful for both racing and close-proximity:-)
Not sure I agree about the lens cleaning bit Joshua. I’ve been flying props out for a couple of years and even with turtle mode the lens is way cleaner than it would be otherwise. Apart from that, nice work as always!
Also...
To answer your call to action... on 5 inch quads I don’t notice any difference in handling, but it definitely helps pushing through scraggle (unless the branch gets hooked on a rear prop, then you’re down in an instant).
Since I’ve gone props-out I’ve had flights where I’m bouncing off scraggle like a pinball without ever crashing.
I turned mine to out again. We're starting to get actual grass here now, and the trees are even more grabby with leaves. I don't worry about turtle mode and the camera lens much. Crash in the leaves and grass, camera lens is well fogged before you even flip the turtle switch..
Props out all the way, I used to run normal then I tried it on one build and ended up changing all my quads to props out, think about how you swim arms out :) but for real my main reason was keeping grass off the camera and if I bump a tree it sorta kinda helps push away rather than suck me into that evil tree. 👍
yes I run reverse props i havent notice Any difference In flight I like it because you bounce off branches And stuff like that It has saved me number of times And I also fly mostly around trees
I once ran props out on all my quads, however after damaging three FC's and one 4-1 ESC, I'll never go back. It's much easier and dam lot cheaper to clean lenses than replace damage parts.
Silicone conformal coat that shit bro
All my quads are running reverse, the fc and ESCs look like an army tank but my lenses are always clean. For me its simple, if you cannot see, you cannot fly. The performance looks the same if not better.