pp in osu motivated me to play more often at first, but it eventually gaslit me into thinking I wasn't improving anymore because my rank started to plateau. Taking it too seriously is always a bad idea even if it gives you motivation at first. Now I always put my judgement over how impressive my plays are to me over the judgement of any algorithm
Yea which is why I play based on how many stars a level got I played 3* till I was able to pass 90% of them then moved to 4* then I played them till I was good enough to do 5* then I played more 4* so that I can pass 5* more easily then I moved to 5* and so on it helped me feel like I was getting better at the game which I was.
@@risi7517 Quest version is confirmed to be done and waiting on BMBF to be released, and ppv3 will not be part of the mod, so Quest users won't be any more delayed than PC users will be
The thing is personally I am a low-ranked player which doesn't mind me much but when it comes to playing online with others especially osu!, people tend to not look at skill but the persons rank which can come off as extremely demotivating to a lot of new players. Also, I believe osu! probably has the worst pp system reason is that it doesn't look on precision and speed, it really only calculates jumps/unpredictability and speed (Which speed and jumps are probably the easiest to get into when it comes to skillsets)
sliders in osu are generally underweighted af. you can have a high SV tech map with 4 tick rate and the best pp you can have is atleast 300 or 400. Notch Hell for example is extremely underweighted even though the sliders are already on Jesus mode. technical aim and good finger control (especially on a odd-even-odd circle combo bursts with odd rhythm rather than being consistent with high bpm streams/bursts) aren't rewarded as high, which is highly discouraging for players who want to practice the skill.
I enjoy having a pp system but I don't put too much stock in it. In osu standard it seems to greatly favour fc's over everything else so I could get 90% on a 5* map and get like 20PP but get an FC on a 3.8* map and get like 50PP. So I just farm it for fun more than anything.
dude you're literally a 6 digits you don't even have experience on the game also if you get 90% you shouldn't even deserve pp because you don't even know how to play the map
@@siberianhusky6342 umm ok? I was just stating my current opinion on the pp system from my experience. I wasn't claiming to be an expert. Also if getting 90% is not knowing how to play the map then I must have dreadful accuracy because I can get very few misses and still not get 90%.
@n what? Not sure what you mean by that and in terms of my experience playing rhythm games, i've been playing guitar hero on and off for like 10 years and have only recently branched out to other games like osu standard and etterna. I'm not super well versed in either yet but still, I was just stating my current opinion on the pp system as a relatively new player. Maybe i'll feel differently down the line.
osu!lazer is the reason why most of the osu! community only cares about the pp and trying to be the best instead of just playing for fun i get some don't get good performances in lazer (I'm one of these people) but a lot have the hardware to run lazer and just decide not to because you can't get pp in lazer. and that's kinda sad.
Osu is real bad with sotarks maps and others giving flat out 10x more pp than other maps of similar difficulty. Osu mania as you probably know as well suffers from that, where being able to play 7K gives you a ton more pp per song than 4K.
@@hi_im_los I think the multiplying of score based off combo is where it is messed up, like in osu you can have like a 98 accuracy with 2 misses or something and your score would be a lot less then somebody with like a 95 and no misses
people get so exposed to pp farming nowadays that it's pretty much useless to even tell them that the system has flaws, they just take the scores with the highest pp score and think that they're the best and it's pretty much useless to fight them because there are so many people like this
@@siberianhusky6342 fair enough, but there are different categories in plays. for example, what is the best aim score? maybe something like union dtfl? pihrana hddt? justadice hddthrfl? maybe even c-type dthrfl? all those could be true. but there is also a large discussion about the best best spaced stream play of all time. sidetracked day hdhr SS? mou li kai hddt? and you get the point now. people do have these discussions and for the most part, the pp values attached are left out of the question when talking about skill
as the late thelewa said, "pp is achievement, not skill". he said this before osu! pp was really abused at all, besides stuff like Koigokoro, and before that, Hard difficulties.
I don't care that much about Performance Points/PP. Acc. is more important, because it shows if you're a good player or a disgusting PP farmer. This is coming from an osu!mania player.
Finally someone addresses this problem properly. In my experience osu! community is really toxic towards anything that isn't boosting their fake skill meter aka pp, so much that it also affects the beatmap nominators, they rank any map if it's farm, no hesitations. These players will even kick people out of multiplayer if u choose more technical maps instead of their 1min farming map by sotarks, cool maps never float to the surface and are forgotten. Truly a circlejerk.
bns rank what they're interested in, farm maps are an instant turn off for a large portion of them especially if they provide nothing special. also blatant farm maps like horrible kids and padoru are not getting ranked anymore and will never be ranked again because bns will literally lose their status over it, there are very few who are willing to risk their status over a mediocre farm map
Yeah, the pp system is fine on paper but the community completely ruins it. The toxic rank elitism, mixed with people not giving a shit about map quality and only giving a shit about "farmability" makes osu one of the most toxic rhythm games I've ever played.
@@bag1035 well the 'blatant farm maps are not getting ranked anymore' isn't really as true as u think it is. At least depending on ur definition of 'blatant farm map' lmao. Armin's imagination got ranked like directly after the bn and dqing incident and the new fatfan kolek map just got qualified like yesterday. Once again, depends on ur definition of blatant farm but idk
@@jirushan6856 my definition of blatant farm is very limited to stuff like padoru and the Kids, imagination could pass as a generic map that's just boosted as fuck and determination also tries to represent the music way more than blatant farm stuff
a player with 999 shit plays and 1 perfect play gets rewarded more than someone that consistently gets 99.99% accuracy for 1000 plays straight. good system
Rhythm games, at it's core, is about being in a constant battle with *yourself* in order to improve. Playing to get better while having your skill measured through a PP system is fine, but it starts to become obnoxious when comparing your skill to others - It diminishes your achievement since the skill ceiling is so high in various games, you'll eventually stop caring about being 'better' and more about 'climbing the ranks'. In my opinion, the less exact your skill measurement is, the better. Dan rankings in IIDX are the best example because there's a legacy behind them, you can imagine how well someone plays if they're 9th Dan, 10th Dan or Chuuden. The feeling of achievement you get when beating Kaiden for the first time doesn't compare to grinding songs for hours to see the number next to your name go up. It's you against yourself, and I hope more people realize it's not just about competition.
Why don't we make a ranking system that gives player ranking in a decreasing manner like in one's top players in Osu. The first place rank gets the flat amount and decreases as you're further down the rankings on that particular map. Farm maps wouldn't really be farmable anymore and we'd see players going for much harder maps since they have fewer plays on them. Of course there would likely be a point where the map could be worth no rank at all so you'd likely have to minimize it at like 50% for a score equivalent to an FC. This way would be comparing players, not by the size of their pp but the wrinkles in their brains.
I don't fully agree on a PP System being for a benefit always especially since how arbitrary it is in Osu and has nearly no functionality. Literally just caring about accuracy in Osu has more benefits overall. In Etterna the MSD actually helps a lot to understanding which Charts Difficulty you are able to play to around 93% accuracy in a certain Domain, therefore making you understand were to improve upon and also works well for Leaderboards. I think the reason why MSD has caused an influx in players because it acts also as Difficulty based on Algorithm rather than a Charter just define it on his own accords. I really wish more Rhythm games would go in this direction of actually having a System that makes sense and outright help you to improve.
the pp system is directly related to the difficulty calculation system and with a game with as many custom maps as osu you absolutely cannot deny the usefulness of one, pp is simply a number derived from it and some other factors (unless ur specifically speaking about mania then Lol)
@@bag1035 I can only speak for Mania lol but the PP System should be somewhat the same for any mode AFAIK. Anyway, I know it's not completely random but there is no indication on what a PP is how it correlated with your skill in terms of accuracy and difficulty, outside of the leader boards it has nearly no function. Take a look into how Etterna's MSD works, it makes sense and is very helpful.
@@Sarrg mania pp iirc is literally just (star rating * score) with od and objcount mattering a little bit while mania star rating itself is just a kps counter, mania is the only mode where i'd consider pp significantly arbitrary and is by far the worst pp system in osu currently xd
It's funny how I literally don't give a shit about my pp in mania. I play a ton of loved maps in mania because they're fun (and because there's not very much ranked 7+ key songs.) It's funny too because in 10 key the star rating of a song is all over the place and generally inaccurate.
pp system made me hate playing Beat Saber because even if I didn’t want to Id force myself to play more ranked maps just so there was a chance my internet number would go higher
it can be frustrating when you have to acc the maps (because you've played them all) but sometimes just take a break on ranked maps/break of the game and it should be good (ye some maps are complete trash tho)
(I think I'll throw this in here because I don't see it mentioned) Chunithm has a very elegant and simple way of giving each player a rank, called "rating". Each song has a (very well determined) difficulty rating, 10.4, 13.8, 14.1, 12.3, etc. When you score on a song your score is multiplied together with the chart's difficulty rating. Your player rating is then based off of the average of your best 30 plays as well as your 10 most recent plays. Despite its simplicity, in almost all cases it works extremely well.
I feel like beat saber specifically has a pretty balanced and skill based pp system. Though if you’re an ACC player you’re staying at the bottom for all eternity.
I have an idea that may or may not help, but hear me out. Wouldn't it be cool if you could select your own avourite plays and put them in a list on your profile? Just like you can put maps on your favourite map list, you could do the same but with your own plays. I think this would make your profile more unique with plays that you're actually proud of (if your top pp play is farm map), and it would ultimately influence other players (and new players) to also aim for "pog" plays and different skills instead of the typical top pp maps. In my experience, mostly every player who has the same skill as me (judging by the leaderboards) have the same maps as their top plays, including me, but it would be nice to show off with that crazy FL play you made but it's nowhere near your pp record. What do you think?
sadly, in osu! the PP system also affects the mapping scene. Maps that do not lean into "PP farming" seem to be way less positively received, making It less desireable for new mappers to map differently to the current "standard".
catch the beat was my main mode for 6 years and it's kinda sad to see how broken it still is. I don't think the recent fix changed things much it just made the maps give less pp than before but people probably still farm the same exact maps. pixel jumps are still underrated from what I saw and the system overall doesn't give players a reason to become more diverse just like in standard. I mean if the main mode is still flawed it kinda makes sense other modes will be at least as flawed for the most part I think etterna has a decent ranking system out of existing ones and I wish they could implement that in osu. it would motivate players become well rounded more rather than just play same maps with the same skill needed over and over again
a perfect pp system in a perfect world would be more ideal for a leaderboard metric than something combo-based like score imo, but unfortunately that won't be possible any time soon so we're stuck with what we got. great video as always
@@almostmidnight232 I mean to get really high in rank you do literally need to get quite a lot better so i don't know your point. and also for rhythm games like beatsaber your point is completely nullified
@@almostmidnight232 someone who can only play 30s 9* maps and get 800 pp is better than you, even if the max bpm they can stream is 150 and they cant get a 300 on sliderspam tech, face it.
Beat saber pp is calculated by the amount of stars the map is and how accurate the player is, because beat saber accuracy is pretty weird, 94 and 95 accuracy plays give completely different amount of pp, but everything after 95 is just bonus pp. The highest star ranked map in beat saber is 14 so I’m pretty sure a 94.59 will give you a 600pp play.
Global leaderboards are a must for me to enjoy most games. I want to know how good I am compared to everyone else, even if that ranking system is not necessarily the best measure of skill.
nah, if you can do od10/11 with ss, (od11 is literally the same hit window as an o!m 300g, or 13 ms) the pp you get from something like that is insane. some ONE STARS, yeah, fucking one stars can give 190 pp with a 4 mod SS, just because its od11. and there are many other examples of this as well. ar11 got a nerf for shorter levels, but oh boy od11 didn’t. and it makes some two stars worth over 400pp. insane shit.
As someone who did a lot of ranking in beat saber, can confirm PP score really doesnt work atleast for beatsaber, there are many different communities in beatsaber that play different types of maps, for example there is the challenge map community that plays maps just for the challenge and generally play maps that are considered unrankable and play only to get on pass on those almost unplayable maps, because what their playstyle is based on it unrankable their skill cannot be shown when playing ranked since they don't play for accuracy.
all skills at high level are not valuable in BS's scoring system (challenge like you said or even speed maps just beyond 350 BPM, true acc, tech (the really weird one) , good acc, stamina because pausing doesn't affect anything...)
@@eZconfirmed yeah but in osu there isnt a real "challenge community" and an "accuracy community" since the ways the health system/accuracy system are extremely different
Yes as long as you realize they will never be perfect at measuring all types of skill. Mrekk and whitecat might be rank 1 and 2 respectively but they got their ass handed to them by Vaxei and badue in an osu show match.
On the topic of osu pp system - currently system has an amazingly ridiculous flaw with categorising flow aim (streams and their spacing) as speed in pp calculation, and this flaw isn’t easy to work on due to osu being a bunch of spaghetti code. There is a group of people working on it though, and quite some progress has been made, some builds/prototypes aren’t as... meaningless and baseless as current ppv2 might seem
Like I think it’s fucking dumb that 5 goods on a 10 minute map has the same effect as the same amount of goods on a map that’s 30 seconds. Like bruh on basically every other game that’s a 99.9% score vs a 95 or something dumb like that
@@Ellie_2810 True, the long maps are dumb with the system. But I think the difficulties are adjusted based off of the length, something like Disregard is far harder then Etude For Sinners but they're the same difficulty. With the extremes like Starbound I completely agree with you but not with the normal length songs.
pp in osu motivated me to play more often at first, but it eventually gaslit me into thinking I wasn't improving anymore because my rank started to plateau. Taking it too seriously is always a bad idea even if it gives you motivation at first. Now I always put my judgement over how impressive my plays are to me over the judgement of any algorithm
Exactly it’s a huge motivator but obviously it goes both ways and plateaus feel worse than fast and steady improvement feels good
Yea which is why I play based on how many stars a level got
I played 3* till I was able to pass 90% of them then moved to 4* then I played them till I was good enough to do 5* then I played more 4* so that I can pass 5* more easily then I moved to 5* and so on it helped me feel like I was getting better at the game which I was.
"Are you gonna get your rank back?"
"Nah, I don't like farming"
*farms for non performance*
acc farming gang
On BS, ppv3 will fix it!
...in 2034.
i mean, ppv3 on that development website thingy is almost done. so maybe we'll get it soon
and in 3925 for quest players
@@risi7517 Quest version is confirmed to be done and waiting on BMBF to be released, and ppv3 will not be part of the mod, so Quest users won't be any more delayed than PC users will be
The thing is personally I am a low-ranked player which doesn't mind me much but when it comes to playing online with others especially osu!, people tend to not look at skill but the persons rank which can come off as extremely demotivating to a lot of new players. Also, I believe osu! probably has the worst pp system reason is that it doesn't look on precision and speed, it really only calculates jumps/unpredictability and speed (Which speed and jumps are probably the easiest to get into when it comes to skillsets)
Another excellent video. I really love your content !
Interesting topic
sliders in osu are generally underweighted af. you can have a high SV tech map with 4 tick rate and the best pp you can have is atleast 300 or 400. Notch Hell for example is extremely underweighted even though the sliders are already on Jesus mode.
technical aim and good finger control (especially on a odd-even-odd circle combo bursts with odd rhythm rather than being consistent with high bpm streams/bursts) aren't rewarded as high, which is highly discouraging for players who want to practice the skill.
I enjoy having a pp system but I don't put too much stock in it. In osu standard it seems to greatly favour fc's over everything else so I could get 90% on a 5* map and get like 20PP but get an FC on a 3.8* map and get like 50PP. So I just farm it for fun more than anything.
dude you're literally a 6 digits you don't even have experience on the game
also if you get 90% you shouldn't even deserve pp because you don't even know how to play the map
@@siberianhusky6342. Also he’s just telling his experience so there’s nothing to really argue against
@@siberianhusky6342 umm ok? I was just stating my current opinion on the pp system from my experience. I wasn't claiming to be an expert. Also if getting 90% is not knowing how to play the map then I must have dreadful accuracy because I can get very few misses and still not get 90%.
@n what? Not sure what you mean by that and in terms of my experience playing rhythm games, i've been playing guitar hero on and off for like 10 years and have only recently branched out to other games like osu standard and etterna. I'm not super well versed in either yet but still, I was just stating my current opinion on the pp system as a relatively new player. Maybe i'll feel differently down the line.
@n Oh ok sorry for misunderstanding.
Honestly i play games like osu and beat saber for fun and just dont care about ranking systems
osu!lazer is the reason why most of the osu! community only cares about the pp and trying to be the best instead of just playing for fun
i get some don't get good performances in lazer (I'm one of these people) but a lot have the hardware to run lazer and just decide not to because you can't get pp in lazer. and that's kinda sad.
I actually have a question, what is the best method of showing on screen real time key inputs for rhythm games?
I use nohboard, but there are probably plenty of alternatives just as good out there.
ok thank you
pp
Osu is real bad with sotarks maps and others giving flat out 10x more pp than other maps of similar difficulty.
Osu mania as you probably know as well suffers from that, where being able to play 7K gives you a ton more pp per song than 4K.
my entire beef with mania pp in two words: capsaicin dt
lol
Sounds about right
:(
*cough* Galaxy collapse, regret, etc *cough*
I feel like regret is worse
Among us
etienne, what dan are you in osu mania?
am 5th view 😎😎😎😎😎😎😎 and 11th like 😮😮😮😮😑😑😑😑
haha yes emojis = cringe
humu humu please shut up UWU
humu humu please shut up UWU
humu humu please shut up UWU
humu humu please shut up UWU
combo scoring in any rhythm game pretty sus ngl
I mean, it works well enough for pump it up with how the chart design has been for the last decade
@@hi_im_los I think the multiplying of score based off combo is where it is messed up, like in osu you can have like a 98 accuracy with 2 misses or something and your score would be a lot less then somebody with like a 95 and no misses
imagine ranking musicians with combo lmao
fr
@@DankLonk1980 not just that... like even a C rank fc vs a 98% with 1 miss in the middle
beat saber finally getting attention you love to see it
Fr
as soon as I saw beat saber in the thumbnail I clicked x)
I’m really glad he’s including beat saber now because even though it isn’t exactly a traditional rhythm game it still has a big audience
This is what we've all been waiting for :)
Its took so long and I am so happy its finally starting to happen
As long as people realise the flaws of massive PPs, then it's great and one of the main motivators to play any rhythm game. Good vid
I don't know man, massive PPs are pretty nice.
@@GeneralNickles nice
@@GeneralNickles don't think about it don't think about it don't think about it don't think about it
people get so exposed to pp farming nowadays that it's pretty much useless to even tell them that the system has flaws, they just take the scores with the highest pp score and think that they're the best and it's pretty much useless to fight them because there are so many people like this
@@siberianhusky6342 fair enough, but there are different categories in plays. for example, what is the best aim score? maybe something like union dtfl? pihrana hddt? justadice hddthrfl? maybe even c-type dthrfl? all those could be true. but there is also a large discussion about the best best spaced stream play of all time. sidetracked day hdhr SS? mou li kai hddt? and you get the point now. people do have these discussions and for the most part, the pp values attached are left out of the question when talking about skill
as the late thelewa said, "pp is achievement, not skill". he said this before osu! pp was really abused at all, besides stuff like Koigokoro, and before that, Hard difficulties.
RIP thelewa :(
I really like that way to see it
Like him or hate him bit rohulk's statement "Increase skill and pp will follow in due time" (paraphrasing but it is the same concept)
0:57 Holy fuck thats me
less go
let sgooo
pogu
Less gooo
Tornado 🌪️🌪️🌪️🌪️
Damn my man pumped out 3 videos in a day wtf
I had this vid ready since last week. The other two were just made cause I got bored yesterday lol
@@EtienneYT lol
Whenever I watch high star osu! mania gameplay, I always ask myself, "Am I a noob or do mappers just say 'RANDOM BULLSHIT GO!'"
Accuracy player in beatsaber sadge, no pp for me
Same with challenge players 😭
@@ecco1k challenge players have rcl tho
1:00 my sabers pog
Ayo?
tw ixp
I don't care that much about Performance Points/PP.
Acc. is more important, because it shows if you're a good player or a disgusting PP farmer.
This is coming from an osu!mania player.
Nice vid. Would you consider making a video about the different skillsets in etterna and maybe how they're scored in the future?
Finally someone addresses this problem properly.
In my experience osu! community is really toxic towards anything that isn't boosting their fake skill meter aka pp, so much that it also affects the beatmap nominators, they rank any map if it's farm, no hesitations. These players will even kick people out of multiplayer if u choose more technical maps instead of their 1min farming map by sotarks, cool maps never float to the surface and are forgotten. Truly a circlejerk.
bns rank what they're interested in, farm maps are an instant turn off for a large portion of them especially if they provide nothing special. also blatant farm maps like horrible kids and padoru are not getting ranked anymore and will never be ranked again because bns will literally lose their status over it, there are very few who are willing to risk their status over a mediocre farm map
Yeah, the pp system is fine on paper but the community completely ruins it. The toxic rank elitism, mixed with people not giving a shit about map quality and only giving a shit about "farmability" makes osu one of the most toxic rhythm games I've ever played.
@@bag1035 well the 'blatant farm maps are not getting ranked anymore' isn't really as true as u think it is. At least depending on ur definition of 'blatant farm map' lmao. Armin's imagination got ranked like directly after the bn and dqing incident and the new fatfan kolek map just got qualified like yesterday. Once again, depends on ur definition of blatant farm but idk
@@jirushan6856 my definition of blatant farm is very limited to stuff like padoru and the Kids, imagination could pass as a generic map that's just boosted as fuck and determination also tries to represent the music way more than blatant farm stuff
osu pp sucks lol it gives 100pp for "i sleep while playing" 1pp for "hundreds of attempts to clear" ha ha
accuracy actually meaning anything in a rhythm game? blasphemous.
Beat saber gameplay woooooo
haha funny pp
haha pp go brrrrr
Babe wake up Etienne released a new video
This is the third time you wake me up today, one more and you're sleeping on the couch!
yes honey
would you be able to give an opinion on community difficulty tables like in bms or iidx
i also wanna see something about ranking courses
@@404waffles dan courses are hella wack I wanna see that too
a player with 999 shit plays and 1 perfect play gets rewarded more than someone that consistently gets 99.99% accuracy for 1000 plays straight. good system
Rhythm games, at it's core, is about being in a constant battle with *yourself* in order to improve. Playing to get better while having your skill measured through a PP system is fine, but it starts to become obnoxious when comparing your skill to others - It diminishes your achievement since the skill ceiling is so high in various games, you'll eventually stop caring about being 'better' and more about 'climbing the ranks'.
In my opinion, the less exact your skill measurement is, the better. Dan rankings in IIDX are the best example because there's a legacy behind them, you can imagine how well someone plays if they're 9th Dan, 10th Dan or Chuuden. The feeling of achievement you get when beating Kaiden for the first time doesn't compare to grinding songs for hours to see the number next to your name go up.
It's you against yourself, and I hope more people realize it's not just about competition.
Neva forget, if you can go "brrr" with your fingers, T&R with DT is your best friend .
Why don't we make a ranking system that gives player ranking in a decreasing manner like in one's top players in Osu. The first place rank gets the flat amount and decreases as you're further down the rankings on that particular map. Farm maps wouldn't really be farmable anymore and we'd see players going for much harder maps since they have fewer plays on them. Of course there would likely be a point where the map could be worth no rank at all so you'd likely have to minimize it at like 50% for a score equivalent to an FC. This way would be comparing players, not by the size of their pp but the wrinkles in their brains.
Haha pp
I don't fully agree on a PP System being for a benefit always especially since how arbitrary it is in Osu and has nearly no functionality. Literally just caring about accuracy in Osu has more benefits overall.
In Etterna the MSD actually helps a lot to understanding which Charts Difficulty you are able to play to around 93% accuracy in a certain Domain, therefore making you understand were to improve upon and also works well for Leaderboards. I think the reason why MSD has caused an influx in players because it acts also as Difficulty based on Algorithm rather than a Charter just define it on his own accords. I really wish more Rhythm games would go in this direction of actually having a System that makes sense and outright help you to improve.
the pp system is directly related to the difficulty calculation system and with a game with as many custom maps as osu you absolutely cannot deny the usefulness of one, pp is simply a number derived from it and some other factors (unless ur specifically speaking about mania then Lol)
@@bag1035 I can only speak for Mania lol but the PP System should be somewhat the same for any mode AFAIK.
Anyway, I know it's not completely random but there is no indication on what a PP is how it correlated with your skill in terms of accuracy and difficulty, outside of the leader boards it has nearly no function.
Take a look into how Etterna's MSD works, it makes sense and is very helpful.
@@Sarrg mania pp iirc is literally just (star rating * score) with od and objcount mattering a little bit while mania star rating itself is just a kps counter, mania is the only mode where i'd consider pp significantly arbitrary and is by far the worst pp system in osu currently xd
Short Answer: maybe
Long Answer: maaaaaaaybe
It's funny how I literally don't give a shit about my pp in mania. I play a ton of loved maps in mania because they're fun (and because there's not very much ranked 7+ key songs.) It's funny too because in 10 key the star rating of a song is all over the place and generally inaccurate.
osu = tech doesnt matter
TIME FOR S6 SCORE PROGRESSION ETIENNE, JARED HAS KILLED IT
pp system made me hate playing Beat Saber because even if I didn’t want to Id force myself to play more ranked maps just so there was a chance my internet number would go higher
those new ranked maps are really trash too ngl
@@sombayy I actually quit playing beat saber a few months ago, but I did notice how awful they were starting to get in the 300-400pp range
it can be frustrating when you have to acc the maps (because you've played them all) but sometimes just take a break on ranked maps/break of the game and it should be good (ye some maps are complete trash tho)
@@sombayythey really are, the only recent ranked map I’ve enjoyed is Blankfield Goodbye
(I think I'll throw this in here because I don't see it mentioned)
Chunithm has a very elegant and simple way of giving each player a rank, called "rating". Each song has a (very well determined) difficulty rating, 10.4, 13.8, 14.1, 12.3, etc. When you score on a song your score is multiplied together with the chart's difficulty rating. Your player rating is then based off of the average of your best 30 plays as well as your 10 most recent plays. Despite its simplicity, in almost all cases it works extremely well.
I feel like beat saber specifically has a pretty balanced and skill based pp system. Though if you’re an ACC player you’re staying at the bottom for all eternity.
When a measurement becomes a goal, it ceases to be a good measurement.
I don't like pp systems. Its what made me stop playing online on osu!
I have an idea that may or may not help, but hear me out. Wouldn't it be cool if you could select your own avourite plays and put them in a list on your profile? Just like you can put maps on your favourite map list, you could do the same but with your own plays. I think this would make your profile more unique with plays that you're actually proud of (if your top pp play is farm map), and it would ultimately influence other players (and new players) to also aim for "pog" plays and different skills instead of the typical top pp maps. In my experience, mostly every player who has the same skill as me (judging by the leaderboards) have the same maps as their top plays, including me, but it would be nice to show off with that crazy FL play you made but it's nowhere near your pp record. What do you think?
wow, did peppy look at this because pinned scores are real now
@@mintzs5128 yeah it would be cool if he did. I guessed that one I think :P
also 10 months ago? holy shit time goes fast
:So you understand that pp system is overrated?
:Yes
:And it doesn't reflect a player's skill level accurately.
:Yes
:Then stop obsessing over it.
:No
If osu fixed their score the pp system can be optimized much better
Now you have to do score progression for soulless 6... carny Jared FCd it :3 (and I mean FC! not tech fc)
1:16 que hacia jugando un tema de maluma xd
As a casual player I'll take a percentage of notes hit over some arbitrary number any day
sadly, in osu! the PP system also affects the mapping scene. Maps that do not lean into "PP farming" seem to be way less positively received, making It less desireable for new mappers to map differently to the current "standard".
catch the beat was my main mode for 6 years and it's kinda sad to see how broken it still is. I don't think the recent fix changed things much it just made the maps give less pp than before but people probably still farm the same exact maps. pixel jumps are still underrated from what I saw and the system overall doesn't give players a reason to become more diverse just like in standard. I mean if the main mode is still flawed it kinda makes sense other modes will be at least as flawed for the most part
I think etterna has a decent ranking system out of existing ones and I wish they could implement that in osu. it would motivate players become well rounded more rather than just play same maps with the same skill needed over and over again
Ive never understood the meaning of performance points, and ive played osu for 8 years
a perfect pp system in a perfect world would be more ideal for a leaderboard metric than something combo-based like score imo, but unfortunately that won't be possible any time soon so we're stuck with what we got. great video as always
omg those are my top plays on the top left!!! 3:54
osuHOW
Im someone who like when a game has a ranking system, as I gives me an incentive to get better, so yes, I like it
to get better at farming ranks Pepega
You're not getting any better by farming 30s overweight maps lol
How people are this blind
@@almostmidnight232 I mean to get really high in rank you do literally need to get quite a lot better so i don't know your point. and also for rhythm games like beatsaber your point is completely nullified
@@almostmidnight232 someone who can only play 30s 9* maps and get 800 pp is better than you, even if the max bpm they can stream is 150 and they cant get a 300 on sliderspam tech, face it.
Some type of system to rank people accurately to their skill will always be something ill look forward to in rythem games (even if most of them suck)
my main problem with skill systems is that they don't reward accuracy plays at all
the problem with PP systems is that nobody knows how to balance them well
Beat saber pp is calculated by the amount of stars the map is and how accurate the player is, because beat saber accuracy is pretty weird, 94 and 95 accuracy plays give completely different amount of pp, but everything after 95 is just bonus pp. The highest star ranked map in beat saber is 14 so I’m pretty sure a 94.59 will give you a 600pp play.
then why is my 1x100 fc on a 3* map worth 85pp but my 94acc fc on a 4.8* worth 87?
@@saturn6458 cause it’s 1.2 stars higher, so if you got a 95 you would probably get 95 - 100pp.
@@Bytesy so you're saying that my accuracy would be rewarded???
Global leaderboards are a must for me to enjoy most games. I want to know how good I am compared to everyone else, even if that ranking system is not necessarily the best measure of skill.
E
third
Tornado made it into a Etienne video!
Haha dopamine go brr when funny internet number go +1
nah, if you can do od10/11 with ss, (od11 is literally the same hit window as an o!m 300g, or 13 ms) the pp you get from something like that is insane. some ONE STARS, yeah, fucking one stars can give 190 pp with a 4 mod SS, just because its od11. and there are many other examples of this as well. ar11 got a nerf for shorter levels, but oh boy od11 didn’t. and it makes some two stars worth over 400pp. insane shit.
what’re your thoughts on a system based on the rarity of plays on a certain file/skillset?
It depends on the size of the playerbase and could be a bit frustrating for beginners but it would 100% be intresting if it's well made
As someone who did a lot of ranking in beat saber, can confirm PP score really doesnt work atleast for beatsaber, there are many different communities in beatsaber that play different types of maps, for example there is the challenge map community that plays maps just for the challenge and generally play maps that are considered unrankable and play only to get on pass on those almost unplayable maps, because what their playstyle is based on it unrankable their skill cannot be shown when playing ranked since they don't play for accuracy.
all skills at high level are not valuable in BS's scoring system (challenge like you said or even speed maps just beyond 350 BPM, true acc, tech (the really weird one) , good acc, stamina because pausing doesn't affect anything...)
It's the same in osu, not every song is ranked so of course some skillsets (accuracy on
@@eZconfirmed yeah but in osu there isnt a real "challenge community" and an "accuracy community" since the ways the health system/accuracy system are extremely different
Haha pp
beat sbaer
YOOO MY MAN TORNADO AT 1:02!!!
Let AI design pp system,how broken could a system be hahah
Yes as long as you realize they will never be perfect at measuring all types of skill. Mrekk and whitecat might be rank 1 and 2 respectively but they got their ass handed to them by Vaxei and badue in an osu show match.
bro just explained the american dream but in rythmn games 💀
Literally free High quality content.
i already hate this video because of the pp joke coming up again lol
Beat Saber
0:17 I saw the first millisecond and then my head sang soulless and I red the name of the song...
On the topic of osu pp system - currently system has an amazingly ridiculous flaw with categorising flow aim (streams and their spacing) as speed in pp calculation, and this flaw isn’t easy to work on due to osu being a bunch of spaghetti code. There is a group of people working on it though, and quite some progress has been made, some builds/prototypes aren’t as... meaningless and baseless as current ppv2 might seem
Average combo fan: 🤓
Average accuracy enjoyer: 😎
etterna doesn't rank every map. maybe it was at the time of the video but now not
different people are gonna value different things so one system to globally cover everything is always gonna be goofy
As someone who plays CTB I hate the PP system
Me, who doesn't even pay attention to pp: 🗿
Haha pp
pp makes you a slave to the game plz set me free peppy
The map woey was playing is kaede
osu players: no
What's y'alls opinion on AAA equiv scoring system? (like FFR)
I think it would be so much fuckin better if it had a percentage based system
Like I think it’s fucking dumb that 5 goods on a 10 minute map has the same effect as the same amount of goods on a map that’s 30 seconds. Like bruh on basically every other game that’s a 99.9% score vs a 95 or something dumb like that
@@Ellie_2810 True, the long maps are dumb with the system. But I think the difficulties are adjusted based off of the length, something like Disregard is far harder then Etude For Sinners but they're the same difficulty. With the extremes like Starbound I completely agree with you but not with the normal length songs.
2:40 Someone knows that skin?
A 12 MISS ISNT AN S RANK IN STANDARD? 💀
haha you typed pp
I play for fun ngl
measured in pp
Combo game sadge
Anyone knows which map Woey is playing on 6:30?
@FunKitten09 Thanks!