Metal Planer Restoration 64: The Belt Pulley Situation - Responding to Suggestions
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- Metal Planer Restoration 64: The Belt Pulley Situation - Responding to Suggestions
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Just take a moment to appreciate the Engineers of 120 years ago, all this done on paper and pencil, blood sweat and tears. Keith you are doing great work and educating us in the process, thank you.
I'll second that comment sir!
Keith thank you for the comprehensive explanation.
It’s really amazing to think that there hasn’t been too much innovation in mechanical systems in the last 100 years.
Shure not to believe what the anciants where abel to do at least. My very respect !
Yeah they were alot smarter then ol Rucker back in the day that's for sure
Without being a teacher, Keith is one of the best teachers I have ever seen.
I believe Keith is a professor of agriculture in his day job.
@@crichtonbruce4329 Oh, that expains it all =)
Either way, he's got the heart of a teacher and he's good at explaining things in a way that even coneheads like me can understand.
It's a sad fact that many good teachers are not employed as teachers - and the same applies across all fields of work - for one reaon or another they've never been in the right place at the right time to get a career path that perfectly suits their talents.
@@crichtonbruce4329 ....He works for Bayer Agricultural - Crop Science.
The one thing I have confidence of is that Keith will solve this in a workmanlike manner and will produce at least one video of it making chips. The rest of us need to get out of the way and let him get 'er done.
Do you remember when he had to remake the bevel gear and he was lamenting the amount of work it would take? When I saw that I was like please, #1 you have all the tools to make it and #2 the knowledge on how to make it.
@@DavidVerch I agree with #1 he has more space and tools than most of the RUclipsrs, You can't think of it or he has a tool for it (both metric and imperial). What actually puts me off is that he still wants more but that as a sidenote. #2 I'm no sure whether he has the knowledge. Knowledge is also thinking ahead and analyzing what your actions will do in the long run. Good examples of the latter are Abomb, Fireball Tools and Oxtools. I consider those guys as teachers. This guy is a goodwilling DIY'er at best with not much creativity. Finally, what always annoys me to a high degree that at the end of his video's he's still begging for money and likes. What can you possibly want more with regards to tools? A very rare 511/512 inch drill or marker (= 1.29794/1.30048 mm)? I'm sorry, I'd rather spend some mony on a starting RUclipsr with a very limited amount of space and tools but is creative with what he/she got. Necessity is not only te mother of invention but also the mother of creativity.
Hi Keith,
An inexpensive setup tool is an old fashioned piece of string, which I still keep in my tool box today.
You did a great job explaining the pulley drive system on the planer.flat belt drives are unique. A lineshaft driven shop gets very complicated.
Thank you Keith for the detailed explanation. With so many steps involved no one can see everything coming down the line. Always fallow your your own advice. You are always a gentlemen and respectful.
It was very considerate of you to make this video to explain to us viewers. The auction comment is a real life problem that you face every time you buy at an auction. I once bought a nice big micrometer from an online auction. Then I discovered the pile of micrometer standards they sold separately was the standards out of each micrometer box and none of us successful bidders got a standard in the box with the mic. And machine tooling may well be nearby but the auctioneer sells it separately because no one knows where it goes. I have seen that happen a lot of times.
Good explanation Keith. I knew it had been a line shaft machine, simply from its age. I grew up in logging and sawmills in central Minnesota, and we basically made many of our own machines, or adapted existing ones to the application. This was not a screw up on your part. Any time something has to be modified from its original configuration, it is trial and error. As we used to say, as long as we had a cutting torch, a welder, and a drill, we could make anything fit, but I must say, the purchase of some basic machine tools definitely made for a lot less time and a lot more accuracy. No return comment needed.
You are a brave man to do all this in the public eye Keith, but I thank you dearly for entertaining and inspiring us all. The fact that things don't always go right the first time only makes the problem solving side of it more interesting. I bet when they first designed this machine, they made many alterations. Thank you Keith and keep up the good work. Your one of the best.
Thanks for the update! I was wondering why you had problems with the belt hitting the gear, but with this I now completely understand. Now I think your idea will be great for shifting the pulleys is great.
I will be echoing, I'm sure, a lot of other comments so I'm making this to add to the tidal wave of appreciation of your skills, your enthusiasm and, especially, your patience with all of us. I cannot recall one of your videos where at some point I haven't felt like I'm sitting in your shop with you while you explain some process, some old technology, some particular point of interest about a machine you are restoring. I feel like a guest, more than a guest, like a friend whose company you enjoy. This particular video covers all those bases to the nth degree. Thank you so much.... jm
Great explanation on machine restoration sir. Most of use have never seen a metal planer and would be lucky to see one in a museum. You are a great curator of this machine.
As a non-engineer non-machinist, I watch your videos because I admire your craft, ingenuity, and problem solving skills. Always learn something, even if it's just patience and critical thinking. Going through the comments list, I thought there were some good ideas. It was great to see you thoroughly explain why none of them work. Thanks for taking all the time to remind us, the name of this show is NOT "Hold My Beer and Watch This."
Keith, with all the work you have put into this your disappointment is understood. All of us have been there. But the good news is that it's a recoverable error, you can make the fix and get going again. Many of us would have flown into a rage and thrown stuff around the shop, but we can see your pain and we got your back. Man what a lot of work only to have this happen...arrgh! Can't wait to see the fix and this beauty up and running. God bless you and the wonderful work you put into these videos.
Wow, i am in awe at the level of work you have put into this incredible machine that has survived time itself.... I completely understand where you are coming from with recreating its operation in a more compact setup. It's your infatuation that keeps such important historical representations of American Technology in existence & operational. You have my utter admiration!
Dave Richard's channel will show how all the machines back then ran on a line shaft. Your job of prototyping the set up you needed was fantastic. As it goes with all prototypes, they just need a little tweeking. Good video keith.
That lots of people didn't understand it. You clearly explained it............ And now it just hit me why lots didn't understand it...... I am getting way too old lol
Keith, your clarification was crystal clear. I had no problem understanding the dilemmas you encounter ed. Beautiful machine.
I belive You are doing the right thing. One option is to move both drive pullies to the “backside” and have tight-loose-tight configuration. David Richards planer looks like that!
Of course there will be som extra effort involved but You will end up bothering a working side with no belts or just one.
You hav learned me so much over the years that I have been able to show visitors how the lathe and other machinery works and what’s possible to produce!
It’s always a moment of peace in my mind while watching a new video from You.
Well done Keith, your perseverance is most encouraging, Best wishes and we hope to see the machine in action in the not too distant future.
That is a beautiful old machine!! You've done a fantastic job restoring it!
As a kid I worked in my grandpa 's machine shop and it was a line shaft shop. I loved it! But it was very complex. I'm not so sure I understand it all.to this day. It had one motor, originally a hit and miss, and two main shafts. Each of them were almost 100ft long and maybe ten or twelve counter shafts to run all the equipment. It was a big challenge to move any machine. And it took lots of planning and study in the handbook to accomplish. It was noisy and kind of scary with all that stuff moving and men working on various projects.. But I loved it and miss it!
As has been rightfully pointed out below you are a great teacher/instructor. In my opinion, just as importantly, you are a true gentleman.
Keith, you probably know Dave Richards has one of those planers in NY State (Old Steam Powered Machine Shop) running from the lineshaft.
I love all the work you have done on it and look forward to seeing yours in operation!
I loved this video! it was so interesting having the operation of the planer explained. Thank you for all your videos (you have no obligation on sharing your work with us, and I ALWAYS appreciate it). Ignore the haters.
I appreciate the detailed explanation. It gives me a better understanding of what's going on.
We should also consider the idea of Form vs Function.
One one hand, the function of the machine is the most important part. The things should do what it's supposed to do.
But it is a vintage piece of machinery, and it's heritage should be respected.
Clearly Keith is not afraid to make significant modifications to the old machine, including drilling holes.
But at the same time, he takes some care to keep the machine in it's original state.
That alone is a good argument to keep the wheels and belts in their original locations and orientations.
It's not the final word on the matter, but it is something that should be considered.
Thank you for explaining that Keith. It makes a lot more sense now when you explained it in more detail.
“One day I’m gonna die and my wife will auction off all my machines” Keith getting all existential on us 😂
Nah - the museum will just have the Keith Rucker memorial machine shop - and there'll be a big statue outside of him with his wonderful smile.
We all "exist", but temporarily. One day we all die. Keith is thinking ahead, thinking about who are left behind who have to "clean" things up after his (guaranteed) demise. I am involved now with cleaning up things after a close friend died. It's a mess with one brother at the throat of the other wanting his share. His (dead) sister, my close friend, wanted 2nd brother to have nothing - for very good reason. Two and a half years later the battle is still raging. In all, think ahead, like Keith is doing, to make it as easy as possible for those remaining to clean things after your and my demise. Just look around and see all the lawyers making heaps of money when individuals have not thought ahead and the "leeches" appear.
@@bobhudson6659 Did your friend not leave a will stating that she did not want the 2nd brother to get noting or stating I leave everything to !st brother?
@@tellyfaulkner3466No, none that we can find although we know a will was made many, many years ago. A search of all the normal, abnormal and even utterly unrealistic places that one could hide or have a will, has revealed no will. So now it is in the hands of the courts. Not the way Marina would have wanted it, but the way it is.
@@bobhudson6659 I'm sorry to hear that. No, I'm sure that is not the way Marina wanted it. Best of luck to you.
THANKS Keith for taking the time to show why some Ideas would not work out.
Thanks Keith, I’ve been following this project for a while now but have not understood how the machine actually works. Thanks for the explanation.
Yes, many of us have been following the progress of this machine for the last 60 years.
We should all see mistakes and problems as an opportunity to learn. The point being is that we should stand back, take a long hard look and think the problem through. Finally as an avid viewer I am guilty of the oversite too, because, if I had seen it earlier, I would have said something. So thanks for all the imparted knowledge and the opportunity to learn with you.
If you never make a mistake, it means you aren't doing anything AND you are not learning.
@@howardhiggins9641 You learn more by mistakes than if you are always successful. I am in training and I am always telling them mistakes are OK as long as you learn from them.
@@DavidVerch People in Training always say this. As an employee in industry, if you don't cut out your mistakes you're out the door.
I like the 'everything works together' quote by Keith. A necessary question for many engineering configurations.
Thanks for the explanation Keith. I didn’t know how a metal planer worked. You explained it very clearly..
Thanks for taking the time to reply to us, I know that I had forgotten you had created the brackets for the lineshaft, probably others had too. A good explanation, I'm sure we're all eagerly anticipating the first chips!
I absolutely enjoy all your videos Keith! Looking forward to seeing you make some chips with your planer! It's impressive to see your dedication to getting a beautiful old machine running again.
I really appreciate the approach taken by Keith in this video. Instead of getting annoyed as all the suggestions that were incorrect, he reflected on how he'd explained the workings of the machine and the problem that he was facing and decided to do a follow up to make sure everyone was on the same page.
Thanks Keith for the in-depth video on the problem. I’ll be watching and waiting for the next update video.
Your work has always been impressive but even more than that your attitude is inspiring. We all make mistakes or run into challenges but you have demonstrated the perfect way to handle that here. Thanks for sharing that with us.
Your explanation of the planer having been countershaft driven clarifies it all for me now Kieth.
I must have missed an episode where you mounted your own configuration on top, the brackets look so period I thought they were original to the planer.
All is clear now, thank you.
Keith glad you are preserving our manufacturing history and ensuring that the machine will outlive all of us : )
Having watched your channel now for the last 2 years, I have enjoyed your expertise in the engineering machinists field. As an engineer myself, I can understand the process of building something new from old and the problems you face. If I remember correctly, when you first fitted the line shaft to the top, you said it could be an issue. These thing happen guys, I find it hard to believe that anybody could get personal about what you do. Doing a great job Keith, keep it up man.
Keith, I get a lot of enjoyment watching your videos just following the process of your work, whether successful or not, still gives me the same satisfaction. I'm sorry that you had this setback but I will enjoy watching you work through the problem and create the fix. Thanks for the explanation of the machine, it's interesting to see just how our ancestors created these things to make their world better without computers to do the work for them. Watching you rebuild this one from the ground up has been great.
Good, calm explanation of the working of the machine, and the reason for the problem. Anybody that says you are stupid or dumb is hopeless. You obviously are not, and you are held in high regard by thousands of people.
The planer looks beautiful and I look forward to seeing you contentedly using it.
Have they come up with any new belt clips that don't make such a loud clicking sound when contacting the pulley ?
Good work on explaining how the planer works. Thanks for your time to do this.
Thank you for the update and information Keith. As you stated, the machine was designed to operate in a specific manner and sequence of events. It looks like everybody that is following this didn't have a complete understanding of how the planer worked in relation to the drive mechanism or else someone would have commented that the pulley swap would have lead to issues. Not in a demeaning way but it is sort of a Rube Goldberg arrangement that is complicated to follow. Everything works together to get the needed results. It was easy to set up the machines in a line shaft shop since the main drive shaft was in a fixed location and the machines could be placed appropriately in relation. Can't wait to see the updated modifications and watch the first chips fly.
We have a traveling head shaper at work, possibly the same age, but it's been in the same place and still used on a weekly basis. I used to work with old sock machines, they used fast and loose pullies, but also with a high speed pully as well. We used to have a resin block that you'd hold against the moving belt to get it to grip better, we also had a belt jointing device and the staples to go with it, but now they're like hen's teeth.
Thanks Keith. I was wondering what the game plan was, but you clearly have a workable solution and we can watch it being applied.
Good luck.
Thanks for the explanation it really shows that no matter how much you think that you consider all the problems they still show up. Well done and a great explanation.
Keith, thank you for another example of your sincerity. It probably comes from dealing with farmers who have a bs meter set to extra sensitive.
Great explanation. I see why reversing the motor won't do it. One way to look at it is that when the table hits the reversing stop the shifter can't be made to go any other way than it does so the pulleys have to be arranged to work with it. ....Dave
Perhaps Keith, because the planer restoration has been going for quite a long time, not everyone has seen all the episodes, and so they aren't conversant with how everything in the planer works. As one who has seen them all, I have always found your explanations very good and trusted that the solution you had settled on was going to be the best one. Great work as always and can't wait to see some chips flying from this beast.
Hi Keith. Greetings from Ireland. I have no doubt that you will solve this problem quite easily but the reality is that you need not have told the whole world about it in the first place. I have watched your channel for quite some time but I rarely am moved to comment on any channel but the thought has crossed my mind that you could have solved this problem quite easily and not have published the problem in the first place and in the process appeared super human. instead you have highlighted the problem and have shown us just how human you are and this is what I like about you. You don't hide your mistakes. This makes those of us who make many mistakes feel a little more human and for this i applaud and thank you. Have a good day and thank you for shortening so many covid days. I am 76 years old.
Keith, yes fabricating and designing something new is always trial and error. No need to explain. You are an awesome teacher and commentator. I also have the same picture I was going to send you. Great machine tool restoration!
That’s what makes your channel worth watching you ain’t afraid to say ya goofed and more than that you go out of your way to explain and show everything your doing that matters for the next guy who’s in your situation
Thank you for taking the time to explain the challenge you are working through. Well done!
Keith is so kind and giving of his time! Always a class act, this is what an expert looks like. Experts feel no need to make others feel dumb about their lack of understanding, instead they are able to explain the correct solution so everyone can understand it. Great video & thank you Mr. KR
Appreciate you taking the time to make the followup,Keith. I hope you can use all the comments( good and bad) to realize what a huge following you have. Save your energy for the shop. Lot’s of folks don’t realize how they come across in writing. Now, GET BACK TO WORK AND FIX THAT THING😀
Keith, Great explanation, My family owned a line shaft shop in NC when I was a kid and was always interested in how they worked, Very cool machines.
Keith, I have been following this project from the start and I had a feeling that the pulley system you introduced may be an issue, My Great Grandfather and my Grandfather had a counter shaft operated machine shop with the exact same planer along with other machines. these machines were set up on the floor in relation to the drive pulleys in the roof, occasionally another drive pulley would be added to the system to cater for another machine but this effectively shut down the line the other machines used.
Your workaround is brilliant move the counter shaft, problem solved.
I know exactly what you're talking about. I ran corrugating machines sometimes called fluting machines for 47 years , all old belt driven machines. Most people don't understand these old relics. You seem to understand them perfectly. Love your channel. 👍
This video answered some of my questions and I appreciate you taking the time to respond.
I’m amazed that you were able to produce such an informative video in less than 24 hours; only your deep knowledge of this machine allowed you to do it.
Thanks for the explanation. I have every confidence in your abilities to solve this problem!
A great explanation. Thankyou Keith for explaining the issue so thoroughly. I think we were all a bit surprised in yesterday’s video but as ever… you’re a man with a plan. Looking forwards to the next installment.
I understood the problem the first time and your solution for it. I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to go into detail. Thanks.
Excellent explanation of a real brain teaser! Your long term perspective as a "temporary curator" of vintage machinery is wonderful.
Thanks for the explanation and clarification. We all make mistakes, but figuring out what went wrong and coming up with a solution is often what learning is all about. I'm sure you would have preferred to miss out on this particular "lesson" but I'm equally sure you'll make a good-looking fix. With a rounded edge here and there it may even look like it was supposed to be that way.
Now all you have to do is figure out how to re-cut those belts you made so they are long enough.😁
Thanks for taking the time to explain in depth how the problem arose and your solution .
Thanks for the explanation Keith. Very interesting. I used to design manufacturing equipment and it always seems it was the small details that tripped us up. Can't wait to see the planer run
Great explanation of your issue about the planer, Keith. I, for one, learned even more about this machine. I applaud your reasoning.
In the engineering world we all live and learn on a daily basis. Awesome work Keith, great work
Nicely explained Keith. I had an inkling that that was what the problem was and that most of the suggestions that I read would not work, and that was I because I only looked at the video where you explained how the switchover of the belts worked a few weeks ago. I'm sure your fix will work admirably well and we will see the planer making chips soon
PS when you repair the broken casting I think it would be a good idea to take all the measurements from in so that when you have some spare time( lol) you can make up a pattern and get your friends at the foundry to cast you up a spare that you can machine up ready in case the repaired dating fails.
This video just increased my respect for you even more! You took what must be a frustrating situation (from the actual machine work to the comments) and turned it into an educational masterpiece. From your descriptions to the final catalog illustration all helped me to understand what happened and why. (And yes I had already looked at some of your earliest videos on this project and had found pictures of shaft drives, including to an old planer, on the internet!) Your final description of your motivations and philosophy were far beyond what I have seen in most RUclips videos. Thank you and Good Luck!
Thanks for the explanation and extra info
Makes sense now.
One thing I appreciate about your channel is the honesty and clarity. This really brings it out.
That is a excellent explanation of the problem and your solution. I would like to see you have the broken part cast.Maybe braze the broken part for a temporary repair.
Thanks for the explanation, wish I had a machine/space like this. I enjoy watching the progress.
Just an idea: The brackets you made to hold the line shaft assembly is very nice. Rather than bolting a plate onto them to shift the works backwards, could you fabricate matching triangular brackets that match the existing brackets, bolt to the top, and tilt the line shaft works backwards? I.e. mount the works on the slope of the triangular brackets to move the works back and the brackets would match the existing brackets. Great work, it's been a pleasure following along.
Honestly this is the best way to respond. You can explain and show an actual example of the problem and how to solve it. Some things have multitudes of answers, others only one. If having the shaft pushed back a bit is what ot takes (and you explained that) then there now you have a plan to excecute. I probably wouldnt have figured it out in a hundred years, thats why i watch you.
Great video! Nice to see the long explanation of the planer. Your videos have helped me with quite a few projects. Thank You!
Keith Great job and how wonderful it is bring back a old planner. You need to take a bow for the great content.
Thank you for showing your mistakes. It makes me aspire to be more like you. You do good, honest work. Thank you.
Keith, an incredibly easy oversight to make. There's always a lot of trial and error in designing or redesigning something.
As much as Keith is a gentleman I'll bet the air was Blue when that stop broke. If it was in my shop you could bet money on it.
Thanks for you detailed explanation of how the planner works Keith and all the trouble you work through keeping us peons correctly informed.
Regards from Canada's banana belt.👍🇨🇦🤞
Thanks for the detailed information on your planner, very interesting to say the least. Can’t wait to see it running!
Enjoy hearing the thought process in problem solving.
My only difficulty with the previous video was that I couldn't "see" the belt interfering with the gear. I just had to take your word for it - which I did.
The only issue I can see now, is that moving the pulleys and shafting backwards is that you will be changing the forces on the frame of the machine, which might cause other problems. With the current alignment the forces are almost straight downward.
Congrats on keeping the planer as close to orig. As possible, if you had started swaping pulley drives from one side to another, changing the belt shift and so on on you will have a non orig. Mess. Your plan is the best non intrusive option. Keep up the great work you do and dont get discouraged.
Thanks for the in depth explanation. I wish I could be there to help you move that overhead shaft aft.
Keith - I greatly appreciate the time you spend explaining the techniques and mechanics used on these old machines. Not just videos for entertainment, but videos to also teach…well done! 🙂
Thanks for sharing your journey, keep on keeping on! We love it and you!
Love the videos you have doing the Planer restoration. To make it work in the modern world you hade to make many modifications which you did quite expertly. Unfortunately there’s usually unforeseen consequences in every change. I’ve been there. I am totally confident you will get this beautiful machine up and running soon and am anxious to watch you make something with it. Thanks for sharing.
Sir, at times the thought has crossed my mind that you may go too in depth in your explanations, but I know that you do know what you are talking about. When I take the time to try and understand your explanations, not being a machinist myself, I tend to misunderstand more often than I care to admit. I do appreciate the engineering that went into designing and building these machines and the knowledge one has to possess to be able to work one of them, especially considering its all hands on and no computer controlled push a button and forget it technology. With that said I enjoy your content and the vintage machinery your present. Thank you... Plus I really enjoy the train videos.
You did a great job of explaining in the first video. And now in the second video.
Some people need to hear things three times to let it sink in. So when is the third video lol.
This video is probably the best video of the series. You gave the "theory of operation" of the machine and how it really works. I guess you would have eventually given a brief description of the theory of operation in the future. I guess it's true, you can learn much from someone else's mistakes. Good job Keith.
Incredible machine for its vintage . love this series Mr Rucker.
Nice job Keith! Simplest solution and keeping final drives original! Thanks for your time and patience as always! Big thumbs up!
Thanx for the explanation keith, Once again another great video. We learn something new from every one. Cheers from Australia.
Excellent vide, thank you! Its always a joy to see a knowledgable humble man explain his motivation and thought process, I particulalry support the "curator for some time" thought (being a bit of a collector myself..)
Thank you for taking the time to explain the situation.
I just want to say you are one the most talented posters on YT. I dont own a single machine but watch every one of your videos. Goodluck on the fix, Im looking froward to the video.
Thanks for the thorough explanation, Keith !