American Vs. Norwegian Prisons
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Looks like prisons in America took a time machine to 1980 and stayed there. The food in Norway's prisons are better, the beds, the bathrooms, everything.
Video Link: https: // • How Norway's Prisons A...
@maxhaddad for some seriously me related stuff
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Hey Friends. Max from the future here, years after this video was uploaded. Appreciate all the
Sweden had prison that forgot to lock the door one night..... so the inmates sneaked out and went to the staff kitchen and baked a cake and watch a movie..
Okay, that is wholesome af!
And that is scandinavian prisons for ya. The inmates are treated like humans, and there is actual communication going on where the inmates learn from their mistakes and therefore probaby know that running away would not really help. Better just sneak in and get the best food. I know I would do that, I love food.
Also, the prisons here are so great that who would want to leave, truly?
Of course there are a few that want to escape of course, but still. Your story is amazing.
The same thing happened in Norway at least once, and the prisoners went to find the guards to let them know so they wouldn't get in trouble. True respect is earned, not taken by force.
@@TheMarikatt It's very funny too. Just like, you forgot to lock the door? ok, i guess we take some cake then. :D
Not the staff kitchen, the ward kitchen. Every ward has it's own kitchen, where the inmates cook for themselves. With knifes....
Hahaha....Mari is right. Super wholesome.
I work at a maximum security prison in Norway, and I have seen many inmates come and go, and what I have learned is that some of them, despite often being older than me, just needs someone who believes in them, who cheer them on and believe that they can do better. My job is to teach them a trade they can use to get a job when they get out, and the way some of them just brighten up when they find out that they have talent and can do well in that trade... it's so rewarding. I have the best job in the world. Many of them ask me how they can thank me and pay me back, but the best way they can show their appreciation is to succeed when they get out. That is all I need.
Thank you sooo much for sharing your personal experience working at a prison. And even more, thank you for being a support for people that may have few if any people left to cheer them on. I'm not surprised to hear how grateful they are to you, I know I would have been. Keep up the amazing work, you may know this already, but you are a hero for living on the fighting lines of life like that and treating people who may have acted like monsters, like they are human. Because they are. Appreciate you. :)
I was wondering something, since you work in a max-security prison, maybe you can answer...
This kind of prison system I'm sure is best for 95-99% of inmates, but what about the most extreme cases? I'm sure there are some murderers who are too dangerous to keep in a place with other inmates / officers, with access to knifes and the like. What do you do with them? Is there other kind of prisons specific for those? Some isolation confinement to prevent those extreme criminals attacking other inmates?
@@daedalron That is not up to me to decide, but the prison management. Mentally unstable and dangerous inmates will never be placed together with others anyway, nor will they have the possibility to go to the prison school until their issues has been treated and they function as normal humanbeings and are safe to let loose among others. Those individuals get the healthcare they need (psychiatrist e.g.) and in some cases they are placed in isolation if necessary.
If one of the inmates act up out of the blue, we have a special department to put them in for a limited period of time, sort of a "prison inside the prison". If they end up there, they will automatically lose their right to attend to the prison school and will have to apply for another spot after a given period of time, which basically means starting all over. Most inmates find that punishment effective enough to only end up there once and never again. But of course, there will always be someone who cannot be rehabilitated. But that's not for me to judge or decide. I am only a prison teacher.
@@LittleRedToyota Thank you for the information. That clears up the questions I had about that prison system :)
Have a friend that I know because my work that has done time in Sweden, not in high sec though, low/mid sec because most of his problems had to do with a shitty childhood and drug abuse (clean now and the best guy), he was put inside because of theft.
The story he tells about his time inside is basically that the prison treated him with the idea that: "something in your past has really screwed up your life if you ended up here".
The sentence that describes this best is “ We take away their freedom but not their humanity”
Yep, exactly. It really sums it up.
@@MaxHaddad Rysslands Hårdaste Fängelse - Dokumentär 2 h 10 min ruclips.net/video/tBLlM8cG_qQ/видео.html documentary about Russian super max prison , it has translation option generated to english , seem to work most times , triple doors to some cells , some cells are not even 4 x 9 feet .
There is videos about Swedish prisons too , INUTI SVERIGES HÅRDASTE FÄNGELSE , Inside Swedish max security prison .
Took them 2 years to get a permission to film inside , they take round in the prison , show where inmates get uniforms , then isolation cell (23h a day) , normal cell (12h a day locked up) . then exercise yards , sadly they do not have subtitles its all in Swedish , its by Random Making Movies channel .
I’m a Brit living in Norway and one thing that quickly becomes obvious to a foreigner is the importance of society. There are many social safety nets to help people maintain their dignity no matter how difficult the situation is. I think if you treat people like animals (and strip away their dignity) they will become dangerous animals.
As a Norwegian, yeah, you're spot on. The point of a prison isnt to punish, it's to teach someone that what they did is wrong. There is a punishment in there too, ofcourse, but it is to take away your sense of freedom, in a way.(not the best explanation.)
I think all humans are like that.
Excellent way to put it. Dignity is not often considered when punishing a criminal is the subject matter. I think you've got a point here. Astute observation, nummulite. :)
@@MaxHaddad I think it is in most countries. Facade.
@L M But it doesn't mean that everyone is like that.
“The degree of civilisation in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”
Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Mahatma Gandhi - 'The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.'
Heard he wrote a couple books. ;) Thanks for this, really good quote.
Damn that's super true as well David.
@@MaxHaddad And now your "3rd proof" ... in this video, a journalist/scientist visits a lion sanctuary, where the zoo keeper who raised them from birth is rolling around cuddling them - face to face, the brave journalist knows she'll be ok - one of the lions gets interested and is immediately put in their place by their mother figure, the zoo keeper.
ruclips.net/video/5gd18a8cdIM/видео.html
As survival machines - the lion is hard to beat. Killing is a feature of all felines - even including the domestic cat.
But with love - and kindness - and respect - even a lion can be tamed, not by force or submission - but by showing that survival can be achieved through co-operation.
Those lions got an education - and just look how well behaved they are!
A more modern version can be found here on youtube: Russian public toilets vs Norway public toilets
;)
In essence "Kriminalomsorgen" or the Criminal Care is all about rehabilitation, the punishment is the loss of freedom not losing status as a human being in an inhumane system.
As a Norwegian I wouldn't have it any other way. As a society we benefit much more from having good people returning and that those people can get a job and pay taxes just like every one else thereby paying back to the system that helped them.
Ahh, I like that. I mean, it's so true, losing your freedom is an extreme deprivation of what creates how we see ourselves. We must remain human or why live like one? Especially when we return to a society that we have felt abandoned by. Kriminalomsorgen. I like that, thank you :)
@@MaxHaddad As an addition to OP, kriminalomsorgen translates roughly to Carers of criminals, in that they are the ones responsible for the effective care of the prisoners. I'm not Norwegian, but I do speak both Danish and Swedish, so I understand it.
@@MaxHaddad: The Romans didn't crucify people because if was painful, but because the absolute loss of control of your own body was the ultimate humiliation. That's also why anyone who could survive three days would be forgiven of all sins.
@@MaxHaddad exactly, Kriminalomsorgen like to say that the purpose of prisons is to "create good neighbours", who would you want as a neighbour? Someone who's been alienated by society and treated as an animal in an inhumane prison or would you rather have "the good neighbour" who's gotten the help and possibly an university degree in prison so that they can get a job and function in society just like everyone else. Most choose the latter.
Now the whole idea for this revolutionary rehabilitation based kriminalomsorg can be found in the constitution of the USA "no cruel or unusual punishments" its also deeply rooted in the declaration of human rights.
The problem with American prisons is they are full of degenerates. You couldn’t trust a lot of these guys. In Norway there is an emphasis on family and being a good person. In the US it’s every man for himself and go get yours by any means possible. I’d like to see an experiment where a prison over there takes 50 of our prisoners in from one of our supermaxes. I guarantee that Norwegian prison will quickly make some changes. American prisons are violent cause of the guards the prisons are violent because of the detainees.
Norwegian here. There's nothing better than to give hope to prisoners. Life can be depressing enough. Nobody should need to add a loss of hope to that. I would trust a former inmate and to work with people that have had their turn to prison. At work we are at the same level. Sharing the same time and get paid at the end of the month.
Hey Petter :) Glad you're here and I totally agree. If you take everything from someone, including their identity, what reason to they have when released to work for a society that did that to them?
Andres Brevik dosent deserve Hope
@@desto6923 He will never get his life back, don't worry about that
@@desto6923 I'm sorry the Norwegian Government have got rid of death penalty. So we're stuck with him.
@@PetterVessel I'd rather him rot in prison than releasing him from life.
I've had some family members that has gotten incarcerated here in Norway, they've gotten reinstaded into society and now live good law-abading lives. The focus of rehabilitation and reintegration that we have in our prisons works undeniably well. The numbers speak for themselves really. I really liked your video, and the views and experiences you had to offer. Keep up the good work Max:)
What I like to remind Americans, who are more often than not very Christian, is that Jesus said that a shepherd of a hundred sheep will forget about the 99 when he tries to recover the one who is lost. As an atheist, I think that man sometimes had some very good points.
Thank you so much for sharing your personal experience with family struggling and then recovering as a result of the rehabilitative prisons they had available to them. And exactly, look to the numbers, those cannot be denied. Glad you enjoyed the video, I'll keep up the good work if you do as well ;) Take care!
I am a private teacher and helped a prisoner pass high school here in Norway..now he is going to college studying sports management and I still help him . He want to use sports to help people with drug and/or mental problems. I dont know why he served time..but he is a great guy now and that is most important
So - you never asked him why he was thrown in jail?
I guess it doesn't matter - a bad person went in, and in some way thanks to you, a good person came out. :)
-1 gets removed, +1 gets added to society .. a gain of +2
@@jazzx251 the only "past" we talked about was in the history books. We talk about the present and the future..
@@heleneharefrken6160 good - that must be the way forward
Thank you so much for being on the front lines and helping someone like him. Made me smile to hear that he struggled, but wanted to move forward and help others who had suffered from addiction or mental health issues. And thank you also for speaking truthfully about your personal experience with this sort of thing, it's great to hear and I think, very helpful for others to see. Appreciate ya :)
Someone: *Makes a video about Norway*
Norwegians: Well let me introduce myself!
RUclips made sure that I saw this, I don't think the fault lies with us Norwegians more with RUclips.
@@SurrogateMerville As opposed to these inmates, you had a choice, didn't you? :D jkjk
@@Henoik Could have chosen to not watch the interesting video yeah. This is true. Don't think the inmates is forced to watch the youtubes though. :P
It is so hard to find videos about Norway, especialy ones where they say Nice things about us, it boost our ego and makes us happy to see that people from other places of the world get to see the country we love :)
(And yes I know this sounded extreamly patryotic)
I love this whole comment thread. Lol. Welcome all :)
The food he had in his refrigerator, is the same type of food as every Norwegians eat. We just often make our food from the main ingredients instead of buying fast food.
Didn't mean it as an insult :) I meant that even if that was all he had access to it was great, and that all prisoners should have access to fresh food!
@@MaxHaddad I understood mate, you made a great video, and seriously good quality content!🤟
Keep up the good work❤️💯🔥
@@MaxHaddad It wasn't taken as one by any of us ;) Just as a side note you are not far off anyway because Norwegian has an origin shared with German going back into ancient history through Norway's relationship with Denmark (ran Norway for 800 years) which borders on Germany. So basically I can only say you have a good eye.
In Swedish prisons all clients (their word for inmate) get a list of what's available in the grocery store that week. Then they get a budget and they can use their food money to buy whatever ingredients are listed that week. It's actually a great idea to give people a sense of responsibility for your actions because if you spend all your money on candy you'll be having a rough time with the rest of week, but you get a dinner regardless.
There are also professional chefs on staff for dinner but you can cook your own food using the ingredients you chose, or ak someone else for help.
@@Carnelust I did not know that, thx for teaching me something new about my country,
I see myself as incredible lucky to be norwegian. Our system do fail us sometimes, but it´s still one of the best countries in the entire world i´m sure!! :)
Every system has it's shortcomings. I think it's totally right to feel proud and lucky to be Norwegian. From what I have seen, you all have taken humongous steps towards making this a more humane planet. For everyone, not just those with clean criminal records. :)
If you won the hundred meter dash, would you also feel lucky?
@@thanossnap4170 You totally missed my point. Merry Christmas, Einstein.
@@thanossnap4170 If you win the hundred meter dash you feel talented and like you’ve put in a lot of hard work. You don’t feel lucky.
"Looks like a treatment center", that's because it is. Treatment for whatever caused them to commit the crime in the first place.
Ha! :) Good way to put it.
I’m norwegian. I’m so glad to see an American who doesn’t laugh about this, but instead has so many great reflections and isn’t too patriotic to see the good in this system. I love America, but you are stubborn over there 😂 great video btw
Hahaha we are so stubborn. And I appreciate that. It would be easy to take the low-hanging fruit and make fun of a "relaxed prison" but this isn't a prison that humanizes the inmates because it's the nice thing to do. It's a prison system that works, and what works happens to be kindness, compassion and engagement. Big difference. Hoping we can catch up over here. Appreciate you watching by the way. Glad to have you :)
@@MaxHaddad well said.
I've often heard right-wing politicians come up with stupidly inaccurate pronouncements such as "prison works bitches! If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime!"
Well - it seems that Scandinavian prison DOES work! Because they spend the "time" transforming complete losers into normal citizens, largely through education. The results speak for themselves.
Not just "educating" the prisoner in the recording studio or on-site garage to gain skills, or even the library ... but simple things, like choosing and cooking food. Being educated into how to be normal, interacting with the other prisoners and "guards" (unarmed) like normal people.
However, the Norwegian system ONLY works because of the political philosophy of the country as a whole.
When these reborn people leave prison, they are welcomed into a society that automatically cares for all people. They are given a fighting chance.
If this kind of jail was put into the USA, it wouldn't work - because the prisoner would be released into a devil-take-the-hindmost hell hole. A brutal Hunger Games to see who will survive crippling housing and medical bills.
@@jazzx251 Stalin, Pol Pot, China, all left wing and communists treated there prisoners even worse. Norway is not a typical leftwing country but they just do things more human.
The issue that no one seem to talk about is that US prisons are run like companies, for profit, when in Scandinavia prisons are funded by tax. That means US is open for all the dangers money brings ie overcrowding, undereducated guards, bad food/clothes/facilities/equipment etc while Scandi countrys want to rehabilitate a prisoner so he/she can be a tax payer instead of a tax reciever.
Thats the biggest reason for the difference. US does this with almost everything and thats why its one of the most corrupt governments in the developed world while all scandi countrys are top 7 least corrupt. Americans should demand more of their government, alot more.
American prisons are also funded by tax. It's just handed over to corporations that make their money housing criminals and who are perfectly allowed to pay PR agents to manipulate politicians. It's a crazy idea in my opinion.
I think you're right. What's unfortunate is that, the American people really do want more from our government, but what the world sees is our politicians. There is a lot of trouble with bipartisanship here, and what gets lost or disenfranchised are the people in the middle of the political spectrum. We end up without a voice, while the people with the loudest or most absurd messages get to be heard.
@@MaxHaddad: There is no such thing as "The American People". It is very important to understand that. America has different peoples who want different things, which is deeply rooted in how the American people was formed to begin with. It's a good thing and also a bad one. You have to respect America for what it is and what it isn't and what it isn't, is a country that's suitable for patriotism and wholistic approach to society. America is for Freedom, not Design. You have the freedom to choose design, but that has not yet happened. The American Dream is still a dream.
One of the largest groups in America, is the group that went from Europe because they wanted the freedom to practice radical Christian beliefs that were not tolerated in Europe and that is still the case. For instance, in Norway, if your religion prevents your child from getting a blood transfusion, then we say to hell with your religion, we will protect your child against your will. Because in our country, we have an age of consent when it comes to health care, as well as religion, sex and crime.
There is another group of people, who was taken from a continent totally devoid of Christianity. They were supposed to be freed a long time ago, but they never were, but only unshackled. It is a problem that remains unresolved, that never had anything to do with radical Christian interpretations, but on the factual capture of people who were totally innocent in the eyes of any European or American.
But the Americans could _choose_ to be a people. So far, they haven't. But they do safeguard the right to make that choice and that is a very good thing. But the Americans just had the highest participation in an election ever and it was still 50/50.
Don't repeat the mantra that «This is not who we are». Your dream is not shared by all Americans. Deal with that.
You got it :) a lot of Americans get confused by our model but you got it. - Regards from Norway
I think anyone who has actually been in prison would get it.
Makes more sense than anything else I've seen. Best regards back :)
You're right that was pretty helpful haha. Just gotta get everyone else to see it too. :)
Norwegian person living in Halden here! I drive past the road that leads to this prison every day.
This was very interesting to watch, i'm hoping for prison reform in the US. I watch tons of "prison channels" on youtube and its scary to hear about all the things former inmates went through during their sentence. If an officer treated inmates even half as bad here, they'd probably get fired or get in trouble with the law themselves. It's inhumane!
Ahh that's so cool that you live nearby. Someone else mentioned they did as well. The area looks absolutely beautiful. And I totally agree, some of what slides under the radar would easily catch you criminal charges in other countries. Unfortunately, in many cases here, prison guards and police are protected by the law, when if anything they should be more intensely scrutinized by it.
You HAVE to watch "drunk man makes norwegian police laugh" English subtitles, this is normal police interactions in norway! I am born and raised in norway and we as society felt compromised when a few years ago the police started to carry guns due to fear of terrorism. They had a gun in the car they had to call for permission to use.
I will! A few others said it was hilarious as well. Will definitely be making a video on it soon :) And they had to ask permission? That's so interesting. It reminds me of the first episode of "Watchmen". An officer needs to take out his gun and has to have ti released from an electronic holster by the police chief.
@@MaxHaddad Add «Norwegian Police Dramatic Car Chase» to the list as well (turn on subtitles). They can play hardball when they need to :-D
Not carrying a gun forces the police to learn effective communication and desculation techniques 😊
Also, I've noticed from footage that many police officers work alone which would probably make them more jumpy. In many other countries, police always patrol in twos so that they know that their colleague is behind them watching what is going on and can react if necessary. This allows the cop talking to the person more relaxed. I have read many comments where people have said that they have felt the most unsafe while being a tourist in America because people are so trigger happy and are always looking out for trouble to happen.
Here in Sweden the punichment is that your freedom has been taken away from you, the prision is there to enforce it.
You'd think that would be enough right??
I did 8 days for a speeding ticket in adanish open prison. It was great - the first two days - and then it hit me that i’m not able to do what I want to do. I could go for a stroll untill I met the yellow line that signalled that if I crossed that line it wouldn’t help me in any way. That made me think. I realised that I can’t do what I want to do. My freedom was restricted.
It was only eight days and I survived but I wouldn’t want to think about sitting there for months or even years.
@@kasperkjrsgaard1447 8 days for speeding! ... wow ... that's super strict!
@@jazzx251 i could have paid the fine but i was a bit down on money, so I chose to take the vacation in “Hotel Happy Bars” instead.
@@kasperkjrsgaard1447 still "WOW!"
The penalty for speeding in the UK is a fine and 3 points on your licence (low level offence - like 40mph in a 30mph zone).
If you ever reach 12 points, your car is removed by the police and you're banned from driving for at least 6 months
First offenders can do a 4-hour "speed awareness" course - and have their first 3 points removed, saving hundreds of pounds on their future car insurance premiums.
It costs roughly the same as the speeding fine - but they get "educated" about speeding, and the 3-points never happened ... so important when it comes to renewing car insurance (which is compulsory - your car will be taken away, and you'll get a criminal record, if you ever drive without insurance).
Young angry men after american prison.
"The world is screwed up and I hate it! At best I don't want to go back to prison but im probably going to be an abusive parent therefore perpetuating the violent cycle to the next generation."
After Norwegian prison.
"What the hell was I so angry about again?"
Big differences lol.
That's incredible. I had no idea that there were actual humane prisons in the world.
You get treated like a human being... Imagine.
I'd like to think that there's hope!
There is so much hope!
If good people get in charge, there's hope.
As a Swede, if you want someone to act like a human you also need to treat them like a human.
You should also check out this; "Norwegian Prison - Michael Moore". It´s from an island prison near Oslo called "Bastøy".
While you are at it, watch his film "Where to Invade Next" where they go to many countries and discover many subjects and the thing you are mentioning is one of them :)
Ah! Will do! Thank yo oaantonsen!
Ahh that's cool! Some of these clips were from that but I haven't watched the whole film. Will do though, I appreciate it :)
@@MaxHaddad
Can't wait for a reaction video on that! 😀 👍
I live next door to a back to life fascility here in Oslo. If you pay attention, you'll notice that the men tend to be really big and beafy, but other than that, you'd never know. I could literally throw a snowball at their window from my living room. In the four years I've been living here, I've heard a raised voice once. Not one second have I been uncomfortable knowing that they are there with open doors. They're trying to better themselves. Why would that make me uncomfortable?
Norwegian here :) and I've recently learned that the Norwegian system is build up from inspiration from the US, however we follow one of the first rules that the US wrote when it came to publishing someone. "No one should be treated as less of a human jus because the did something wrong". That's not what it says directly, but it was something like that. And I find it weird that the US, who wrote that, doesn't follow it...
Loved the reaction btw😀
"No cruel or unusual punishments" is in their constitution. The 8th amendment. And still their prisons are extremely cruel. I believe you might have seen that on Michael Moore's "Where to Invade Next". And the videos they show from US prisons are beyond cruel..... They are so proud of their constitution but in so many ways their system is completely in conflict with it.
@@FuryWings27 I didn't actually see that, we learned that in school😅
@@sirisolbar Oh! I see. I just assumed you saw it the same way I did 😅 I recommend it though! It is a great movie. In the Norway segment they interview an Utøya father and he blows Michael’s mind.
Hey! And yep, isn't that crazy? I'm not sure where the U.S. went off track but we definitely did. Welcome by the way! Appreciate your comment :)
It's completely nonsensical right? Literally torturing people all over the country and saying no cruel or unsual punishment.
5:32 he is probably a normal prisoner, as norwegians trust most people, a good example is that when parents go to a cafe, they let their babies be outside if it is hot enough, as they trust other people to report it if the baby gets kidnapped. a prisoner in jail would probably volunteer as he wants to be graded better and safer, as well as the others thinking that it is boring, and frankly, to much of a job.
Seriously good insight. That makes sense if the culture is much more trusting. Here in the U.S. we are the complete opposite.
@@MaxHaddad We actually have this hut or cabin system up in the mountains in Norway run by the tourist association. The idea is you can just spend your time hiking or skiing between the cabins since they are well stocked with food, fire wood and places to sleep. Anyway it's a system that entirely relies upon you to honestly declare what it was you took from storage and how many nights you slept there. You fill it out on a little slip and put it in the box by the door, and they'll remind you to pay if you forget to do it after leaving, but otherwise it's entirely left up to you. Never once have I witnessed a Norwegian try to get out of paying. Occasionally you get dumb foreigners who thing they can cheat the association, but they quickly get told off, or frozen out of a hiking group for their behaviour.
@@MissCaraMint I did not know of this in my own country, but also you just talking about those types of forrigegners made me mad enough that I chould scream, those people get what they deserve
@@ThatOneFungus Yeah those people are just never invited back.
I remember Larry Lawton comparing this one to the US system. He said that the way the guards interact with the prisoners, if that happens in the US, they'd be fired because the authorities will say they're being corrupted and going to help them break out. But that kinda shows that they don't have faith in their employees
I think our prison system reflects the Norwegian way of living, we are a society and we behave as one. In the US it seems to be "survival of the fittest" and being nr 1 seems very important. In Norway we need the "stronger" to take care of the "weaker" and even if you're the strong one now, you could one day be a weaker and will rely on other people's help.
I like that a lot. Reminds me of a Bob Dylan lyric: "The first one now will later be last" The Times They Are a-Changin'" Good song.
I'm a bit late to the show here, but you ask what that inmates position is amongst the other prisoners. As you read from the label on the door, he is a "ganggutt". It's directly translated to "hallway boy" and it just means that he gets more trust and responsebilites than the other inmates, and is often in charge of the cell block. He hands out food, has the key to the storage, and he is often the person of trust the inmates can turn to.
It should be mentioned that you dont loose any rights if you go to a Norwegian prison. The right to vote and all other benefits. And you dont have to tell if you are applying a job. Well theres a few jobs that require a "clean sheet" but it's basically nobodys buisness if you did time.
All part of the normality and yeah, you did a mistanke...we punished the crime, no reason to keep punishing the person
That's so great. It has been very difficult to get a job after prison, have been "employed" twice and immediately let go once they did the background check. An excellent point, why, if someone has served their time, should they be punished again and again for years until they can hire another lawyer to expunge their record?
Same goes for housing. A landlord have no access to your criminal record. With the crime rates being so low, I don't think an ordinary land lord would even think to ask about something like that either.
@@MaxHaddad
I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist on this subject... My theory is that the rich and powerful in the US want to keep as many people as possible poor, in debt and feeling hopeless. And if you can take away their right to vote, even better, that will make them feel like nothing matters, because they aren't an active member of the democratic system.
I'm loosely quoting Tony Benn from when he was interviewed by Michael Moore in Sicko.
"People are being controlled by being kept hopeless and pessimistic."
I really think there's truth in that...
@@MaxHaddad maybe because if they committed embezzlement than they shouldn’t have a job having to do with money or committed a sex crime than they shouldn’t be working with kids. There are a million reasons why an employer should know. You are also assuming that everyone that gets out made one mistake and are trying to better their lives which is simply not true. I have three uncles who have spent the majority of their adult lives in prison and it’s not because no one gave them a break. I also realize that some are like you, that are trying and it’s not easy but remember that not everyone is.
@@andreasmith9809 as the person who made the comment stated, some jobs do require a «clean sheet», jobs involving children are one of the types of jobs where you need an approval by the police that you give the employer.
7:20 there is a difference in American and European dryers though, as far as I know it. I am not sure about industrial machines, but all European dryers that I know have electric heating, no gas burner. Maybe that makes a difference.
Haha, I had no idea. I bet that does make a difference, my household dryer is electric but I wonder if the one at the prison I was at wasn't? It really did make the clothes smell like a garbage fire, and burn them too.
I am so glad I found you. This is the second video of yours I have watched. I will be watching as many as I can.
Now that I have found you. Your channel will GLOW up fast. Enjoy. You deserve to get your AMAZING point of view out into the world.
Hey! Glad you found me as well! And I appreciate you being passionate about this stuff. It matters! Welcome, truly happy you are here :)
The so called German movie wasn’t German, it was a Christmas movie. It was written (on Norwegian) merry Christmas.
@@MaxHaddad and the one movie to the left of it is a "Portuguese language course"
@@scipioafricanus5871 It isnt a movie it is a book.
I com from norway and christmas movie on Norwegian is (jule film)
"God Jul" is the danish way of writing "Happy Christmas", so that would be my guess :)
There's a chance you've been tipped about this already, but there is a video out what is an excerpt from a documentary where the first guy from this video (Halden Prison Director) visits Attica Correctional Facility and gets to meet with some of the inmates. It makes a strong contrast for sure. You'll find it if you search for "Q158: Attica Prison USA v Halden Prison, Norway"
It was mentioned but I'm not sure if they told me exactly what to search for. Thank you Marius, this is helpful! Appreciate you watching as well!
One of my friends parents work there, and they said that the inmate actually leads the tour. But they watches him with the cameras
Ahh gotcha. Neat that one of your friend's parents work there. No way any of us would have led a tour here in a US prison. Doubt anyone would even get in to get a tour. :/
The American prison system is a national disgrace. I was only on the inside for about 53 weeks, but in that short time it became quickly obvious that rehabilitation was not even on the list of goals. I never saw the logic of throwing incarcerated people together in an environment that discourages social norms and provides no opportunity for self betterment all while being treated like an animal. It's no wonder the recidivism rates are so high. If you take someone with no education, job skills, or social skills and make them fight for their life for 10 years and then throw them back in society, can we honestly expect their life to suddenly turn the corner? Of course not. If anything, they will only be further behind than they were.
If we found alternative punishments for non-violent offenders and instead concentrated resources on turning prison into a safe place where self betterment was rewarded, perhaps we could actually change lives and stop the revolving door. Some people won't change, but by and large you get out of people what you give them. Treat inmates like animals and you will get animals. Treat them like human beings and give them the tools for a better life and I guarantee you the majority will take advantage of it.
Hey Christian, cannot thank you enough for sharing your first person experience from having been locked up. Your voice is so important man, appreciate it greatly!
There is no better way to say what you said, rehabilitation was not even on the radar for the prison I was at(and most/all from what I have heard many times over). I have said for a while that prison is where criminals are sent so they have to work from home. It's a cesspool of poor behavior that is subliminally being condoned by a system that seems to have thrown it's hands in the air as to helping the incarcerated. Like they're crossing their fingers in hopes that many thousands(perhaps millions) of people will return to society somehow better than when they went in. Complete agreement with you, and thank you again for being here.
@@MaxHaddad I consider it a combination of ineptitude and sheer laziness. The system is overburdened because we incarcerate far too many people. There is no creativity allowed to come up with punishments that could also be of use to society. Non violent offenders, especially those like myself (and you apparently) who are educated and hard working, could be put to use in some fashion rather than just being locked up in the jungle contributing nothing.
Financing is tight, wages for corrections officers are low, and the horrible work environment basically attracts people who would probably be turned down for a job at WalMart. It was difficult enough to go through, but it was made worse by staff that had absolutely no idea how to properly organize anything. Everything was a disorganized mess which made life difficult and stressful for both inmates and the employees. I got bored and even wrote out procedural changes that would help out and I was basically laughed at. I really didn't expect to be taken seriously...after all, I was *just* an inmate...but this inmate was highly successful in the private sector before being incarcerated. It's not like I was just making stuff up. LOL.
Anyway, thanks for speaking out. We need more people like you who can break the stereotypes of all inmates just being thug gangsters. It's obviously not the case.
This is really interesting and I love the peak behind the curtain, or bars, in this case. Really cool stuff. Scandinavian designed prison. They are speaking about inmates and being human in the same sentence. Mindblowing. Really enjoyed this one...thank you Max.
You got it Stephanie :) I learned some new things as well. May revisit this, the video was pretty short and there's a lot more to be gleaned from it.
@@MaxHaddad
There's a video where the Norwegian prison chief goes to visit Attica in the US. You should look that up. 😜
Great video/analyzing/reacting!
Here is a little story for you about the time I did some time in a Norwegian prison ( Hof Fengsel/Prison ( Now closed down )
I was very suprised when I came there and saw the "security". No concrete walls, just a normal fence like you would have at your own home/garden area. The fence surrounding the prison was also mostly broken or had fallen down, so anyone could jump over, and run away! When I was there, one person did. The police from the nearest town had to come and search for the guy, witch took about 2 hours (if I remember correctly) So, the escaped prisoner had ALOT of time to run/hide ( I dont know if they ever caught him, but I guess they did )
The guards of the prison were also very NICE! I remember running out of tobacco, and one of the guards gave me about half of his pack of tobacco, and 50Norwegian Kroners to use at the prison kiosk ( He got his money back when I got my weekly pay )
The prison guards shared meals with us, alas sitting in the dining hall, at our tables and socializing with us ( Really nice people )
The guards also played poker and other card games with us ( even though NO GAMBLING rules, we played for candy and cigarettes )
It was just a low security prison, but at my time there, I shared my room (cell) with rapists, killers ertc, who were at the end of their sentence.
I remember the worst experience for me there, was that one of the guys I shared room (cell) with, was snoring and it made it hard to sleep, hahah
The prison was closed in 2019, and put up for sale for NOK 8million ( About $1 million )
Gosh, I'm half French and half American and let me tell you, having grown up with the French/European culture and way of handling stuff (not just prison stuff but literally everything) and US culture, I can tell you how PAINFULLY bad this country is at learning from our mistakes, O. M. G.
Also, no need to apologize for Nollie, dogs before dudes lol
I wish I had a little more culture from outside the country. Would be helpful in seeing the U.S. more objectively. Super useful and I'm glad you shared. Thank you :)
@@MaxHaddad it's kind of weird because I grew up with both cultures as part of my day-to-day life so sometimes when I realize something is American and not French or vis-versa, I get shocked at my own culture LOL
Even if you break the law and do something you are not supposed to, you are still a human being.
Norwegian guy here.
Hey Baktus! Welcome. Totally agree.
I worked as a volantaire as a work out buddy and stuff with norwegian inmates, and i know there are used a lot of resorses to help them make it. Note: the inmates traveld from prison and met me at a public gym in town, worked out with me and got back after. The flee risk was obvious, but it wasnt something i thought about or experienced. But they made me work out hard😅
That's unreal. The idea that inmates got to go to a public gym is blowing my mind. I know they had to be so grateful for the opportunity. We(myself and the other inmates where I was at) would have been. And lol, I believe they worked out hard. Some of the most intense exercise I've ever done was behind bars. It was so, so helpful to move and exhaust yourself. Those endorphins ;)
Norwegian here. As you say, I really think that the U.S would have benefited a lot by adapting this prison model. If you want to see a better close up on this specific prison (Halden prison), check out the Netflix documentary: "Inside the World’s Toughest Prisons" S03E04 (Norway: The Perfect Prison?). And btw, great review :) Keep up the good work, dude!
Ah! Nice tobnot, thank you. I didn't realize they had done an episode about this. Someone else just recommended I do a video or two commentating over "World's Toughest Prisons". That will have to be one of them, we have to revisit this place. And thank you, will keep working. You stay well and we'll talk soon! :)
Norwegian here =) Another thing about the prison that they did say in the video: The inmates prepare their food themselves, and are actually allowed to use kitchen knives.
Hahaha, that's so funny. We had to use our I.D. cards, and sharpen them on concrete to be able to cut up our food.
@@MaxHaddad And even tho they get tho use knives, (and even a chainsaw in our lowest security prison), Violence inside isa close to 0%. It all comes to to the humane treatment and respect and trust they are show. Inmates have even said that the do not want to dissapoint their guards. =)
Thank you for sharing your emotive response with your own experiences, it was honest, insightful and deservingly brutal. Greetings from Norwegian
You're welcome, thank you so much for listening. I really appreciate it!!! And greetings from the US :):)
Prison is INDUSTRY in the US. Its profit. Big corporations make a good living on prisoners.
That's a very good point. There are no commercial prisons in Norway. It's totally nationalized. And when a Norwegian police officer was asked whether we have a maximum IQ limitation on police officers like USA, he thought it was a joke because he couldn't believe that anyone would want to deny someone the right to become a police officer because they were too intelligent.
USA really does have some issues.
@@jeschinstad
Well... I once wrote a big article on the difference between Norwegian and American police.
Over in Norway, police get 4 years of training. Including a university degree... So... First you need to be smart enough to have top grades in school to get into university. Then you need to be fit enough to play ball on some local A-team. I would say... I have friends in police, and its common to spend 1-2 years preparing for this.
Then you need to get accepted to the university degree you are applying for. Then you need to finish top of your class. Then there are a bunch of psychological, behavioral screenings and tests for you to even stand a chance at being selected for a job. And then there is 1 year paid training on the job.
Meanwhile in the US... US police get 3-5 months of basic training which is virtually unchanged since the early 60s. They get 8 hours of crisis management... In a class room. Which is what we have seen US police fail at on TV every night for a year. They get ZERO psychology or training in de-escalating situations. 40% of their training is about shooting their gun. The rest is about standing tall, taking orders, doing as you are told while some Israeli combat instructor is screaming into your face how you arent man enough. How you should just quit because you cant make it. And then they teach you how to slam people to the ground, how to drag people out of cars, and they give you 3 pages on basic human rights and the absolute basic laws. Just enough for them to go out there with a gun and escalate a parking ticket to a deadly encounter. --And routinely get away with it.
See... US police is about PRIDE and PATRIOTISM. Their skills... If they have any at all, they have to learn from other police while they are on the job. Other police who also have extremely little training. They take great PRIDE in having the same training their grandfather had. Policing in, especially small-town USA, is mostly for people who have been to the army and dont have shit else to do. And if your uncle is at the local Sheriffs office, you are pretty much guaranteed a spot on the crew.
And once you get that uniform on, you get free food at McDonalds and people treat you like an automatic hero. "Thank you for your service" they say. And then you are free to take money, beat people, and operate above and beyond the law. Its just a different world. The US is a nation of cowboys and amateurs. Very few have proper training or actual qualifications. Because that stuff costs money. And nobody really cars anyway.
@@captain_context9991: But when the maximum allowed IQ is 105, you can't really expect all that much either. Even many Americans doesn't believe that it's true that people with 105 IQ are automatically disqualified from being police officers. But it is true and it is just as insane as it sounds.
Sure do. Catch and eventually release so you can catch again.
I loved the pure directness of your commentary and storytelling in this video. Very interesting and educational video!
Hey skar! Thank you. I appreciate that. I always want the videos to keep improving, but I never want to lose the raw feeling! It's important.
I recently did a DNA test and found out that I'm (surprisingly) part Norwegian.
This form of _Prisoner Reform_ makes me oddly proud. 🤔
This guys comments bout Sara when shes speaking are hilarious :'> god stuff
Hahaha thanks man. She was yelling I couldn't handle it
Just imagine living with her on a daily basis. 😂
“Don’t forget to eat your sprouts too”, “My mom is coming next week and is staying for a month”
@@MaxHaddad Isn't that how Americans usually talk?
I am shocked
I actually live in Halden so it was very cool to see that our prison is the one that is being used as a good example! The movie is norwegian btw, not german, it’s a Christmas movie :)
This does make me very proud to be a norwegian tho, and I think a lot of places could learn from how we do it here😅
Ah nice, I'm glad you got to feel some pride for this, as you should. It does serve as a wonderful example of the potential prison has to help not only the inmates, but everyone who lives in that society. And yeah, I botched the movie thing for sure haha. Thank you for clarifying ;)
Ahhh!!! Can’t believe you did it! So exited ! :) your the best! Thanks! I was so excited to hear your opinions!! I love Norway so much >.< and to answer your questions definitely jeans 👖 but Khaki pants have their moment too lol 😝
I think prisons should be focused on rehabilitation and reintegration.
Ooh also I clocked the sweater ! Very on theme lol 😆 very nice ! 👍 great job 👏🏻
No problem! It was an excellent suggestion. Sometimes I think about what it would be like to live in another country, like Norway. But I also feel like there is so much here to be done, and I'd feel like I was running. I dunno. But I do agree, rehabilitation and reintegration has to be high on the radar.
Hahaha, ty :)
Those prisoners will eventually return to society.
Would you rather have the ones that have been severyly punished, beaten and treated as animals for 20 years.
Or those that were rehabilitated into feeling part of the society and taught life and professional skills to survive there without doing crimes
Exactly Santtu. If someone returns to society and has no lawful way to take care of themselves and is filled with resentment at their country, what are the chances that they will just get arrested again?
Fantastic breakdown and analyzing this video i love this reaction. Great work ! Best regards from Norway
Hey Tom! Thanks man, I'm glad you enjoyed it and I appreciate the comment. Best regards from the states :) Take care!
the "film" in 1:50 is actually a norwegian christmas book, it translates to, "merry christmas, the book"
Haha, everyone is telling me all the movies and books I missed. Love it. Thank you, and for the other comments as well. Learned a lot ;)
the movie you thought where German is actual "merry Christmas" in Norwegian :) And the grocery store is in the prison. In some prisons here in Norway they have for Example music studios :) They inmates have computers and lots of opportunity to better themselfs :)
Hi Helle :) Yeah I really messed up on that movie's origin haha. Glad you clarified, I thought the grocery store was in the neighborhood nearby or something. And I think that's so great that some inmates have access to a music studio. Music has been proven many times over to be helpful to people struggling with trauma, and we all know how good ti can feel to be creative when you're feeling like you have nothing to offer. Glad you posted this, thank you :)
I committed several crimes as a teenager. I was given counseling and therapy instead of punishment. I never re-offended.
In Norway victims of crime will be awarded compensation if the crime reduces their financial income. The criminal will be ordered to pay, but in the case that the criminal have no founds the government will forward the money. And as my countryman correctly stated, you can spend the rest of your life in Norway. If you are sentenced to "forvaring" you will not be released if you are considered a threat to society.
We need to stop categorizing people as "good or bad" and start thinking that people are on a spectrum between "functional and dysfunctional".
Tell the mother of a child who was kidnapped and gone for years only to find out that she had been raped and tortured all that time when they finally find her body that the man who did it wasn’t evil and doesn’t deserve to be punished. Would you feel that way if it was your child?
@@andreasmith9809 Yes, I would feel rage and hatred towards that person. Which is why I would not be allowed to be a judge in that person's court case due to a conflict of interest. We should aim to think pragmatically about crime and think about what lowers it,not what causes us retributional pleasure, as I call it. Do you want to live in a society with more crime and feel a vague, abstract feeling of retribution, or a society with less crime and a deeper understanding of human nature that can more effectively stabilise society as a whole? I'm Norwegian. When the terror attack in 2011 happened people were asking why we didn't butcher the shooter on the street, why we didn't want to see him hang. And the answer is that we would rather focus on empathy and keeping our values as a society intact, than to let his actions cause more hatred. You shouldn't address questions about criminality with emotional appeals, it only hinders you to see the most effective path to less killings. We can acknowledge that an act of murder is cruel and feel anger, yet still have a justice system that focuses on preventing as much future harm as possible.
I like that. Lots of people, definitely the majority, of people who commit crime have diagnosable mental health problems, serious ones.
What if you were the mother of the child who did the kidnapping and the raping, should you be made to suffer as well? Good parenting doesn't guarantee your children won't do something awful in the hardest moment of their life, or be safe from compulsions that are completely illogical.
there's another series that you sjould check out, it is in norwegian(with subtitles) and it is called Alt For Norge, it's not as much about prisons but it is about how the norwegian government deals with the welfare of the state, and economics behind it.
Ahh nice, thank you! I'll check it out. I've gotten a lot of great recommendations of how to better educate myself, and hoping I can make a video or two about them. I'll add that to the list! I appreciate it :)
Americans hate the idea of paying taxes to their government but they don't realise that they pay more to private companies than most other OECD countries pay to their government in taxes for the same services bit usually at a higher quality.
The biggest difference is not in the prison itself. It is how the common person on the street will tolerate his fellow countrymen being treated. Some guy might have done something bad and should go to prison. But however long or short his stay might be one day he will be released. And yes EVERYONE should have a "get out date". When someone knows they will leave in a coffin thats when they become dangerous to their fellow inmates and to the staff.
So when that guy eventually gets out its in the best interest of everyone if he has learned how not to go back. And that starts with not taking their humanity away.
That and "privately owned prisons". The second theres a coorporation or businessman in charge of the show it becomes about keeping costs down and producing something. "privately owned prison" is just a fancy way of saying slavecamp.
You're exactly correct, a person can easily think they have nothing to lose if they are doomed to a life behind bars. If you're keeping me forever, then there's nothing more you can do to me. And yes, privatized incarceration is an insane thing and it's shameful that it still exists.
You should have a look at the two episodes of the show The Norden that are about nordic police and nordic prisons. They're on youtube so it's pretty easy to find them.
Ah! Sounds good, typing into a page I have saved of recommendations. Appreciate that Lyrazel. If I can do it justice, I'll get a vid of it up as soon as I reasonably can. :)
There are more episodes of The Norden that are very useful for Americans, probably all of them!
@@dutchman7623 the religion one is my favourite and I've probably seen it like a hundred times. Priceless.
My parents remind me everyday how lucky I am to live in Norway
Hahaha! Smart people. Glad they're grateful and understand that not everywhere is so forward thinking.
The whole point of the prison system must be to take criminals in on the one end and producing productive members if society on the other end. Otherwise prison is just higher education for criminals.
Totally. I was once told that if you go to prison for selling marijuana, you come out selling heroin.
Prisons should be a correctional institution that corrects you into a better person.
Definitely agree Thomas :)
In your view it made me understand more about our system in Norway. I wish you all the best
Hey man, dane here, I don't think our prison system is quite as far as this norwegian model prison, but I very much agree that the purpose of prison should be prevention of further crime, so either containment, treatment or rehabilitation. This, though, seems like the right way to do rehabilitation.
Hope you're doing well and doing good :)
Hey! I am doing well and good and I hope that same for you. :) Really appreciate you taking the time to watch this. I definitely agree, if this isn't the perfect way to rehabilitate prisoners, it's at least a hundred miles ahead of where we're at in the U.S.
We actually had a prison next to out local school where I used to live in Norway. I think it took away some of the stigma to have it in a normal neighbourhood.
That's interesting. My high school(9th-12th grade) was next to a jail, but I think it added to the stigma. Every time something went down at the jail the school would go on lockdown.
@@MaxHaddad Interesting. There was never any incident in my memory. It was just there.
@@MaxHaddad I am a Dane and live a 10 minute walk away from a so-called "open prison" it's sorrounded by fields which the prisoners work for money. I have never been worried about anyone escaping from there, and no one has ever displayed discomfort at its proximity.
It's refreshing to see an American making these points instead of going 'they're too soft on criminals, prisons shouldn't look like hotels' etc. The crime has been committed, you can't undo what's been done to the victim. But what about the interest of the greater society, the potential future victims -? What's the point of a prison where all you learn is how to be a BETTER criminal and you come out five times worse of a human being than when you went in?
I appreciate that Diarmuid. I don't know how I would feel if I hadn't had the struggles with addiction and my own time in prison, but I hope that I would want the best for everyone in that hypothetical case as well. We have a habit in the states of pushing off what can be dealt with later, and in the realm of rehabilitating criminals I think that is a massive mistake.
@@MaxHaddad if you still feel you are in a 'struggle' with addiction,
PLEASE go and check out The Freedom Model.
The authors who researched and founded it were literally the worst kind of drunk and addict you can possibly imagine. I
Also imagine getting back to society and most employers wants to give you second chance at life whatever you want to go for in life, its no gonna be easy but you can make it happen.
You can be allowed to get a console in your room.
One I know befriended one of the most dangerous hitmen in Norway, and he would ask my friend to play on his console. Everyone else was afraid of him
Damn, but "Are the games good?" is the question. I appreciate that your friend gave him some empathy and because of that made a friend. Treating people with love and respect can be so helpful even though it can be scary or difficult to do.
You are amazing for making this vid, i hope the US will learn some day. i used to be soooo obsessed about the US and i wanted to move there for a long time, but the more i learned the less i wanted to move there. im norwegian btw. I subbed to you❤ I can feel your light all the way here man, stay healty and keep it up
Thank you Cazz :) I appreciate you watching! Thank you for the sub my friend, stay safe and take care :)
Having prisoners and guards interact is a great thing, could you imagine if civilians couldn’t talk to police? No one would have any respect for them if that were the case.
Jeeze, that would be a terrible dystopia if police couldn't be talked to or looked in the eye. Weird to think about but that's almost how it feels in prison some times. (most of the time)
If you wanna check, there is even a better prison in Norway. Don’t remember the name, but if you just put on RUclips “Norway prison island”, you’ll find it. This prison is the one with less “reincarceration” in the world.
Okay! Thank you Nuri.
It's called Bastøy prison. Sort of the last place for long time offenders to adapt back to normal.
The main thing America has to change, is the way of thinking. like "I think the USA is the best place in the world" mentality really needs to go before USA can actually take a step forward and create humane changes. Most videos you see of Americans speaking about the country is so patriotic it is bad. and no kids should be raised this way.
I do agree that America needs a more global mindset. Everyone is so attached to the idea that the U.S. is #1, when it is empirically not. I think it's great to be a proud American, but that you can still be proud and say, "We have work to do."
@@MaxHaddad Exactly. Every person has the right, and should be proud of theyr own country. but don't over do it :).
One of the films was a language course in Portuguese 🙂
Thank you Malin :)
I recommend people to go watch the episode about Halden prison on the show World toughest prisons on Netflix. it goes more in-depth into how this prison works, and you get so see a lot more of it.
Ahh nice. Okay! :) Some others have made great recommendations as well but I'll be sure to watch that, and if it makes sense to, I'll get a second video up. Surprised I haven't seen it yet, I've watched a lot of episodes of World's Toughest Prisons, must have not gotten to it yet. Appreciate it diddy ;)
Thanks for sharing Max, that's very brave of you - best of wishes from a norwegian :)
Hey Johnny! You're welcome, I appreciate you watching. Best wishes back :)
the german movie is a norwegian movie called merry christmas i have not heard of it
I wonder if it was a movie that he held sentimental value for? I haven't read any comments yet from anyone that recognize it. Would like to hear more of his story, and if that was an old favorite from his family or something. :)
The main reason prisons and the justice-system in the US don't want to change their rehabilitating models, is because of the government financial support each individual prison gets with higher inmate counts.Prison is an economic in the US.. you make profit from criminals, you make more criminals, you employ more police to catch more criminals, oh more profit.. US is broken... not only with regards to prison,inmates,punishment and such... but as a whole.
It is most definitly not the land of the free.
Cool to see an American's perspective on our prisons
Thanks Chokyo, I'm glad you enjoyed it. A lot needs to change over here, and I think your prisons can be a great example of how to move in the right direction.
@@MaxHaddad Thank you for responding. And I agree.
I work with a guy who have stayed at prison for few year in norway. He was in jail for 3-4 years for low crime. Today he have his own home, make money on rolex watches and have a steady work. I have never done a crime and its a plesure to work with him. We have alot of jokes and he works on his temprament every day, and its improve alot in last 7 years. I respect people alot who do big improvement in theiir lives, not how much money they make
btw in that prison it is the inmates who make the food with knives
Lol. We used to make knives(for cutting food, not people) out of our ID cards. We would sharpen them on parts of the wall that were brick.
I have not commented on any of your posts up until now, because I did not want to interfere, but this one made me cry. Your prison experience was even worse than you have described in these videos. There is no respect or compassion from anyone for the inmates. It seems that most prison employees choose to work there because they cannot get jobs elsewhere and as you say, it is an opportunity to have power over others. Rather than improving and working towards release, it is a constant state of survival and degradation. I remember when you were close to being released from prison, you said about work release, 'I just hope they are nice'. That is all that you wanted. Someone to be nice to you. 'A truly just system must do more than protect the rights of the innocent; It must also respect the humanity of the guilty.'
Love you Momma! 100% on board with all of this. I often forget that I said "I just hope they're nice." That does say a lot.
Must be proud of your boy. And he of you ! 💛💛
the film you thought was German is a Norwegian audiobook called A Criminally Merry Christmas, fifteen black Christmas stories by the author Nils Nordberg. I have never been in jail, but I have the audiobook
Haha :) ty
An imprisonment is to protect society in general, not to satisfy the feelings of revenge of the victims. Society is also better of when the prisoner is being treated well, and prepared to return to society with improved skills to cope with normal life outside prison. Punishment is not a goal, but more or less the unintentional result of the imprisonment.
You'd think it would be obvious that removing someone from their life and placing them elsewhere is severe enough punishment, even if where they end up is more clinical than punitive. I totally agree with you that punishment is an unavoidable symptom of incarceration, but that it shouldn't be the priority. I think our focus on justice instead of safely and effectively returning people to society is why we Americans are facing this revolving door recidivism issue. Definitely some work to be done here, Jan. Thank you for the comment, I appreciate how you worded what you said, gave me a lot to think about. :)
Hi Max, the movies you wondered about: One was an norwegian christmas movie. God jul is translated into merry christmas. The other one isn't a movie, but a language course in portuguese.
Ah! Thank you Brandofviti. Wishing I had learned a second language.
@@MaxHaddad Never to late to learn. You could try using a service like Duolingo (free with ads) or similar. I have learned enough Italian that way to be able to read blogs on topics I like and understand someone who isn’t speaking at full speed. So rewarding!
The grocery store is inside the prison. The inmates get a small salary they can spend on some of their own foods. From what I seen in that movie the food is cheap, but then again no one gets a good feeling from being made to feel poor either.
'Where to Invade Next' gives a more complete view of the Norwegian prison system, I think.
Yes! Someone else recommended I watch 'Where to Invade Next' in it's entirety. I look forward to doing so, thank you for the suggestion :) And I think that, them just having the grocery, even if it isn't as lavish as stores on the outside, at least gives them a sense of freedom and independence.
@@MaxHaddad the less human you make someone, the less human they become.
There are people that will never be released and for them we have Ila fengsel. Ila is still more humane than any prison in the US. Breivik frequently complain over the coffee and that his Playstation doesn't have internet connection.
"I'm sorry, Sara is yelling again"
If punishment helped on crime percentage then the United States would be the most peaceful country in the world.
Haha, good way to put it. :)
Michael More did a short video of 2 high security prisons in norway too. one of them being on a island. He also speaks to the parents of the victims from the terror that happened with Breivik, and they answer to his questions might shock you.
Oh no way...the interview with the parents sounds interesting. Writing this down, didn't know Moore had done anything on high security prisons. Thank you!
@@MaxHaddad I saw later a video you had from the island, that was actully from his video. SO thought you had seen it. Edit: added link. ruclips.net/video/NZDK9ptTZ04/видео.html&ab_channel=MrDalgard
The police from Portugal in Michael Moore's movie say that the foundation of their training is respect for everyone even the person that they are arresting.
The Norwegian word for society is "samfunn", which directly translated to English, I guess would be "finding togetherness". That forms the basis of everything that's Norwegian and if you think about the pure logic of it, you can't maximize otherness if you seek togetherness. So our ideology is that we keep people locked up if we have to, and the worst are sentenced to Custody, which means that you can be locked up forever. But our goal is to help each other find their togetherness with the Norwegian people. But it doesn't only apply to prisons. It applies to the whole of society, not the least the workplace. The focus on Norwegian prisons leads some Americans to think that our society is similar to America except that our prisons are luxurious. That's not how it is at all. A Norwegian has nothing to gain from being imprisoned. Education is free from age six to your doctor degree, for instance. We also provide free dentistry to people who suffer from mental illness, because we know that dental care is the first thing to go when you're suffering from those types of issues and they are permanent, making it more difficult to reunite with the togetherness afterwords.
In short, we're logical, not suckers.
I think everything you mentioned are signs of wisdom, strength and as you said logic.
Probably late to the party but the football/soccer jersey was FC Barça.
You are, but better late than never. Welcome Jenni, and thank you haha :)
The US has 5 times more murders " in prison " than total murders in Norway.
While you talk about rehabilitation and humanity ...
I'm talking about 200,000 gang bangers that WILL kill again !
( YES, that's the number in prison )
We can have such prisons, because Norway is still full of Norwegians.
That's a little racist don't'cha think?
@@MaxHaddad sociology is downstream from biology.
to everyone here, if u wana learn mroe about the norwegian prisions you shoukd check out a serious on Netflix called "world hardest prisions", sesong 3 ep 4. He talsk a lot about the prision system and how it works
It's a great show! Ty Haakon
I think we need prison reforms in the US. But when I discuss this with most people, they don't seem to care. I have worked at jobs where there were people who had previously been in prison. (Unfortunately, most Americans still call them "ex-cons".) It's hard to try to rebuild a life, when they have so much stacked against them when they get out.
Also, Jeans are better than khakis.
Yeah, it's been frustrating to discuss prison reform with some. Either people have no idea or think the punishment fits the crime, without considering what may have caused the crime. A few have completely understood, which is always refreshing and makes me hopeful. To be honest, I can't remember what I said about jeans or khakis in the video hahaha, but I'm way more comfortable in jeans. Khaki days do occur though, I can't lie. Good to see you Andrea :)
Maybe you should focus on the money. How much money are you as a citizen spending on not preventing expensive crimes? As a Norwegian, I prefer to have my money finance great childhoods, because people who have happy childhoods, are much less prone to crime and that saves money.
They have a store inside of the prison btw, they get monthly/weekly payment and make their own dinner in a facility.
They also have opportunity to do different hobbies like music/building stuff with wood etc....
Ahh nice! It was frustrating to be in prison and feel that I had no opportunity to become better at any skill(other than chess, which admittedly was great). I also think that having the opportunity to make dinner together has to be a great way to become better at socializing and sharing work on a project. With only a few exceptions, seems to me like all of that would only help society when the inmates return to it.
I guess that rehabilitation and the focus on relearning to be a part of society is the norm in Scandinavian prisons. Here the punishment is that your freedom is taken away from you, not that you get treated inhumane.
But I'll admit Norway is still ahead of both Sweden and Denmark and if you're interested in Norwegian prisons I think Bastøy has a really interesting approach where they focus on community and it's just a one of a kind prison - or prison island to be exact.
It's important to understand that Bastøy is for end-of-term convicts. They're being deinstitutionalized after a very long time in prison. You can't just release people like that from high security to freedom, or else they'll be overwhelmed and revert to previous experiences. If you keep someone locked up for a long time, you have to normalize freedom gradually.
@@jeschinstad Yeah it’s a brilliant way to being a part of a community and getting acclimated to the society again. I really respect this approach. It’s not for nothing Norway has one of the lowest (or the lowest?) recidivism rates in the world.
Hi Sabi. Yep, I need to look more into this. I now know that it isn't the only type of prison, or the only prison anywhere doing this. Going to try my best to give credit where credit is due to any prison doing hard work to help people and treat inmates humanely. :) Appreciate the comment. Thank you for clueing me in. And I agree as well that in a lot of cases, having your freedom taken is punishment enough.
The key difference is that in America prisons is a way to maek money, so as in all companies you need to get maxium return on minimal input. So you dont buy fresh food, they cost to much. Its cheaper to feed prisoners on crap
Totally. It doesn't make any sense that so many people should suffer and die earlier from a poor diet because a rich warden wants more money. Should be in the prison with his/her inmates. That's a worse crime than what most criminals have been found guilty of.
Very interesting. Although Norway is not perfect, and the prisons are sadly very good at putting inmates in isolation, surprisingly. I still feel, and it is proven, that this is something more countries should work towards. Obviously, Norwegians are very proud of their humanity when it comes to prison, including me. But I still want us to keep working to get better.
As you said, many want people that get to prison to be punished, but I believe that only brings more hurt.
A person not getting the support and help they need will continue to do what they did, only hurting themself and others more.
A person getting the help and support they need will try to use that help to live a better life.
Even if that person has done something awful, we want them to get a better life (both physically and mentally) so that they don`t go back to doing that awful thing, hurting more people in the process.
I'm happy you had a good man giving you a chance and supporting you in prison.
It's a great way of looking at imprisonment, that some day those people will return to life in the public, and who do you want them to be when they do? Someone said in another comment that you can't heal hurt with punishment, and I think it rings perfectly true.
@@MaxHaddad A very wise comment that is
max 21 years lets go
You go first
If you're interested the thing you didn't know what was among those movies was a Portuguese language course.
Thank you :)