The main issue is their way of powercreeping is to just inflate the HP pool of enemies and then give new characters better multipliers to counter the inflated HP. We should be getting more bosses with gimmicks that incentivize team building rather than just "pull the new unit" since right now it feels like if you don't have two or more of Acheron, Feixiao, Break DPS, or Yunli, you have a huge disadvantage. A boss without any types on their weakness bar to make Silver Wolf more appealing while still making the break implanters good, a boss that takes half damage from skills but double damage from basic attacks boosts up Blade/Dan Dragon/QQ along with Jade, a boss that takes more damage the more times you attack it before it attacks for units like Seele while still being good for follow up units, Hoyo needs to give reasons to expand your roster and try out different characters instead of just giving us bigger sponges to brute force with newer units.
what you've just stated is a "pull the new unit" meta though no? if you have to expand your roster to keep up then its literally pull every unit or lose, while with bigger hp sponges you can just upgrade old characters.
Turbulences already boost some units over others and none of this is going to fix the powercreep "problem" as new units will be able to counter these mechanics while dealing more dmg than old ones.
@strykeralpha9650 I'm trying to describe a scenario where you can continue to use characters you've already pulled while still having reasons to pull the new units, without feeling like it's impossible to clear endgame unless you have whoever is on the banner. Like a boss where a stronger Blade is obviously better to use, but if you already have Blade you're not angry that he's made irrelevant. Six months ago Acheron was the best DPS around, now people are talking about her like she's going to fade into irrelevance any day now. Sunday isn't even out yet and everyone is already looking down on him because they just assume a better Sunday will come out in a few patches. Hoyo has cultivated a very unhealthy way to look at new units, when a majority of the playerbase just wants to pull whoever they think is cool.
What you're saying is basically. Pull for old unit to give the damage the boss wants And not Pull for new unit because it gives more damage since the boss was more hp. So what you're basically saying is them doing the same thing as they're doing but for older units. And most of all that would not have the intended effect since they would release a new unit that has better multipliers than old units that works the same as an old unit so you'll just be creating a skin of that old unit
@@giangtrinhtruong7952 plenty of them do... arknights, granted some people get other games like epic seven or summoners war confused as they're actually from south korea, summoners war has no pity system that im aware of or might for something special here and there, they buff all the time now as the community asks for it or nerfs etc, granted a large portion of the game is pvp as well, even during its early days they did buffs and nerfs just much less often or didn't buff the right units and so forth because it was to make money, they also sell a lot of skins and have far more mtx than a lot of other gacha type games, yet its still more than enough in game free to play options to be successful. Epic seven was similar, granted as I said they're also south korean not chinese. Plenty of games do it though
Honnestly, I don't understand why mihoyo doesn't do these buffs because it costs pennies to them while incentivising investment on older units (plus I think that giving the opportunity for new players to pull and build belobog era units without feeling f***** is valuable)
Eidolons and pressure. So people forget that if you invest smart, your older characters do fine. Pokke for example has an e2 sparkle, so his seele goes off. Same with dhil. That is by design. Hell, I plan on investing in my firefly because I know someday she will be garbage. Oh well, I'll have her E2 and my Ruan Mei is cracked, so she should be OK. People gotta be smart on how they invest there characters. If you wanna use dhil to this day, skip his re run, and invest in your aventurine and pulled his sig...idk what to tell you. Why? Aventurine doesn't need it. To help my kafka dot, i invested in my ruan meim to this day it beats end game just fine. And yes this is all by design to promote there new toys. Are you struggling? Aw well just pick up rappa and click auto battle. Yes that will make the game easy temporarily. But it's never necessary. You can use characters from 1.0 if you really want, without money spent, but you gotta be smart with how you invest in your account. Just offering perspective
Sure, eidolons do make life easier for these characters. However, most of these eidolons are for supports that would shine brighter on other dpss (making your dps of choice still weaker in comparison) Plus that doesn't work for newer players. If you started right now and fell in love with Seele, you would need a considerably longer amount of time just to get on par with todays content than you would by choising feixiao even when you don't like her as much
Eidolons aren’t a valid argument. Vertical investment falls off in the long term versus horizontal investment in the first place (look at hi3rd, e0 rebirth dealing 20% more than e6 HoH, p2 characters powercreeping old units so badly they added new weapons for Kiana for her to be viable). Vertical should be an option, and if characters get buffed, players who vertically invested in their units will see an increase in longevity too.
@@GodofGoblins Idk about that one. Most DPS do about 2x damage at E6, and 2.x characters are already close to 2x the multipliers of 1.x characters, at this rate even E6 1.x characters will fall behind E0 3.x characters. And that's 6 potential newer 5*s you missed. They'll still fall off eventually and then you'll have wasted 7 5*s worth of pulls instead of just 1. And who knows? for important characters like Kafka and SW, maybe they'll eventually release a newer version like with Herta? And then you'll feel EXTRA stupid for having wasted all those pulls just so you can make your favorite character barely on par with the newer ones. Worst part is you're not even guaranteed to clear all the content anymore, since Hoyo seems to like scaling up bosses with newer units. If anything this whole debacle has just made me stop caring about full clearing the monthly stuff which in the long term means I'm only gonna pull my absolute favorite units and probably won't need monthly passes anymore. Which is a really good change for me actually, but not great for Hoyo if other people also feel like this.
@radiantcat540 yeah I mean point me to an example where a character is required to be E6 to beat end game. 4 stars? Sure. 5? People are beating moc with e1 seele. It's not that deep. At most, E2 is more than enough to handle content for the dps 5 stars. But yeah, it won't be easy. Your not gonna 0 or 1 cycle. But play well, build well, and invest smart (no money), and yes you can clear content with older characters. Hell my kafka Sampo team clears end game, but that's because I have an e1 s1 Ruan Mei. Just be smart with your investments. Just my perspective
The way Mihoyo has handled powercreep is really bad, because there are a bunch of different team types that could have sold new DPS for a long time without increasing the DPS ceiling so much so fast, especially since there are a bunch of team types missing characters. But they increase damage so much and also only focus on like 2 teams at a time while the others get nothing except maybe some supports that kind of work with them even though it's made for the favored teams. So I don't think there is a way to buff old DPS enough to catch up with just new characters or even relic sets if the damage creeps up as fast as it is now. They just can't do enough damage even by the time they get their first rerun. If they focused on pushing different teams instead of increasing damage and enemy HP, then maybe they could sell eidolons and new teammates for older characters at least for a while before they become irrelevant.
The main problem is the aggressive power creep in HSR. Even now there is no point in pulling any DPS units from version one as almost all of them are useless at this point. Not saying they can't be made to work but they are all sub optimal. I think the only one still hanging on to relevancy is Dr. Ratio (not sure, don't play him) and he was the last DPS prior to 2.0. Two years from now all current DPS will be forgotten. There probably won't even be reruns for them because no one would pull them. E6 Seele probably won't even be able to clear story content by that point.
@@Glast04 News at 11 life won't go as planned things will happen in which you have no control. If you can't accept this fact you'll live quite the miserable life and I'm not dismissing his comment I'm just pointing out how dumb and retarded his comment is.
tbh even pulling a dps on their first rerun reduces their value a lot. supports dont do thaaat much better on average either. we've had a few that have been edged out almost as fast as the dps chars have been.
4:24 YES they have done this a couple of times in HI3 and once for Zhongli (but yes as the video says im not gonna count this one) but Mihoyo does this a bunch of times in HI3, an example would be the Kallen battlesuit Ritual Imayoh BEFORE the release of Elysian Realm (Making sure people read the word BEFORE the release of ER so no one says "but ER is a game mode where your characters gets buff so that doesn't count 🤓"), just pointing this out to Mrpokke cuz twitch chat doesn't know about it, also nice discussion topic from Fl2ur. I just hope they buff Blade cuz im wanting to pull for him one day, sucks that he's never in my priority list cuz of his kit (and sadly the "dreams" that i heard of probably gonna have 2 new characters overpowering him).
The argument that hoyo doesn't buff older character because it isn't profitable is a faulty one Afterall, buffs are relatively low cost compared to creating a new character, while being able to create value that will incentivize people to pull (thought the numbers will be lower by virtue of some people already having the character)
But it trues that they haven't done that. They have so many ideas for new ones with the constant new 5* to the point that buffing older ones has yet come to minds, so not faulty.
@@giangtrinhtruong7952 this is a straw man fallacy you are presenting. Just because introducing new character is always profitable, it doesn't mean that buffing older ones isn't. The reason why Hoyo doesn't buff older characters is unknown. The first argument that would come to mind would be lack of funds, but that's clearly not the case. As profits are always rising, and the costs behind such buffs would be minimal relative to the cost of making a new character from scratch, and relative to potential revenues from such buffs. But this is beside the point, at the end of the day, buffing other character would be profitable, therefore the argument presented is faulty
I would assume the reason they don't buff characters is because it requires effort. I totally agree that it's most likely a win/win situation for hoyo to start buffing characters but they're probably scared that people will be skipping pulling on new banners because their "old buffed characters does just fine". While they'll probably make up these pulls by people spending more on personal favorite characters than before. While it's not hard to buff them there's not much that's easier than doing nothing. Especially when every content creator under the sun gases up every new character release like it's the second coming of jesus. Not to say that it's CC's fault but there's definately a "hoyoverse toxic positivty" vibe present which doesn't really exist to the same extent in smaller gachas wheere there's a lot more scepticism.
As someone who plays fgo, you do get ssr overall frequently but getting specific is harder. My account has 290 (45+ ssr not counting dupes) characters. Also in terms of rewards, fgo do give relatively lot of reward like last anni in NA gave 200-350 free pulls depends upon how far your account is progressed. I played E7 anni and I was averaging 2 5 star per week so hsr really isn't that generous relatively As for augments, it's basically you can toggle between a different kit of character by unlocking augment by farming their chips. Some augments like Delta and Hawk of fog literally became best dps units after the buff in the game but they stopped doing that. Now they do divine key for some characters which basically is like rolling a new weapon that exclusively buff the character (recent HoFi divine key being an exception which retroactively buffs equipment of all her teammates as well) by giving them new moves
genshin makes it work because old units are still viable in an open world scenario and even in niche spiral abyss comps. hsrs hypercategoriztion in specific archetypes in a turn based game is just problematic
true, maybe old DPS have a hard time in genshin, but supports are eternal thanks to the elemental reactions and sometimes they can also help old DPS like Xiao
@@EngelAguilar Some old dps perform better than new ones lol wtf are you talkin about. Hutao is Better than Yoimiya and at the same level at Arle with almost 4 years difference between them. Cyno is worse than Keqing which is std 5* day1 char. Diluc std day1 char is also better than Yoimiya. Neuvilette is Better than Mualani with 1 year diff between. There is alot cases even in dps category. And even then you still can clear with relativly low cost Yoimiya \ CYno \ Ayato etc those chars are just worse than new ones or even some older ones but they still can clear all content as long as you play them right and build them good. The difference will be that someone like Neuvilette needs ~25 dps rolls on his artifacts and yoimiya needs like 35-40 and thats it.
@@feyandhisstuff9888 and isn't that the definition of a "hard time"? xD for those DPS you need to do a lot more to achieve the same result: clear spyral abyss, not because it's impossible to clear, but because the new DPS are very easy to play
@@EngelAguilar No? Kinich and Mualani are amongst the most difficult and frustrating characters to play, and they both dropped in Natlan. Chasca is very easy to play, as is Neuvillette, but some of the older characters are also very easy to play. To use the already mentioned characters, Ayato and Yoimiya are literally just NA spam and you're good. The argument that newer characters = easier than older chars is just flawed. Literally look at Sumeru where the move was just turn off your brain and use hyperbloom, and compare that to Fontaine and Natlan where you need to actually properly pilot a team around an on fielder. Besides, there is no one with a good Ayato or Yoimiya team that should be struggling to clear abyss. Because, even though it's gotten harder, improved also have the supports, weapons, artifact sets, etc, that can bring the older, usually weaker characters, up to a level to destroy the abyss. That isn't to say you need those newest things either, as they should still be able to clear relatively well even without the new meta characters/gear. I mean I can literally still full clear every abyss with physical RAZOR of all characters. Like cmon now.
@@EngelAguilar No. Its not. because some old dps have better times than new ones. Mualani gives much more frustration than Neuvilette and she is 5.0 against him 4.1 1 year diff.
they do have to buff older units eventually or reruns just outright won't sell for them anymore outside of a few sales as time goes on. Older characters should not be as strong or stronger then new characters and should always be weaker but the gap should be much closer then it currently is.
that's not how buffing works either, old characters can be stronger than new characters so many other gacha games do it and they do just fine and many of them are more competitive with pvp at that..
If hoyo decided to do something to sell jingyuan rerun by having Sunday.. I wonder how they will do with seele,jingliu and etc .. probably the reason why seele not rerunning soon cuz they tryna buff seele somehow.. but I could be wrong
If hoyo decided to do something to sell jingyuan rerun by having Sunday.. I wonder how they will do with seele,jingliu and etc .. probably the reason why seele not rerunning soon cuz they tryna buff seele somehow.. but I could be wrong
This is so mihoyo gatcha gamer pilled. You can def make 100+ different characters with really only 3 abilities each including passives that are unique and don’t just multiplier creep
Diffrence is, in FGO the 90% 1-4 star characters are actcually usefull unlike 90% of the 4 star characters in HSR. You only need meta supports in FGO you can pretty much use any DPS with them It helps that Castoria is argubly the most broken support in gacha history that she can pretty much make anyone good in FGO. Solution to powercreep in HSR, just add Castoria /s
I think the traces idea is actually great. Once per patch they could expand the traces tree of old characters. Still have to invest TBP which I think is fair.
The Difference between FGO and HSR is that few max ranks are limited in Fate, so you can find them whenever you want. Hsr, on the contrary, has most of its 5* limited, so it might take you even years before the unit you want has a banner. this is the reason why it has less pity and a guaranteed system on top of more gems per patch.
I don't play FGO, so what do you mean by few are limited? Do you mean that you can pull for any unit you want anytime or do you mean that they all go into a big standard banner pool? Cuz the first option would be really nice.
@@gwyddawggwyr1057 i have no idea what he said here, but to answer your question: No. Limited units don't ever go into standard banner. But the standard units in FGO are way way better than HSR and there are way more of them. There are also way more 4 star releases than HSR once in a blue moon 4*. And most 4* are very useable and some are outright best in their job. In Fate there are like 3-4 meta supports, if you have them, you can make anyone work. There is powercreep but it doesn't matter because if you have those 3-4 meta support you can clear anything. And the pity is worse but the gacha rates are better imo. I have more SSR in fate than in genshin just because the rate is better and they give more pulls. Not to mention they introduce a GURANTEED SSR banner every anniversary and new year, in which for the price of 2 welkins you get a SSR from a select pool of SSR you can choose.
@@michelebelviso879 actually there are far more limited units in fgo than non limited. It's just fgo isn't limited to 2 banners per patch so units are far more accessible
@@i_dont_have_a_youtube_chan8584 He did not say there are more non limited than limited in FGO. He said there are more non limited in FGO compared to HSR and these units are better than the standard banner ones in HSR.
@@JZBaltazar yeah, it's mostly cuz both hsr and genshin refuse to update perma banner frequently. Fgo had a time where they stopped adding to perma too but now they seem to be fine about it
videos like this are great because it looks like the HSR devs are actually listening to feedback. I wont be surprised if they compress the hp scaling at some point and just focus on releasing new units that balance out the old roster
The problem with this is that Sunday is very Cleary ment to be a support for the new roster of units While chars like jingyuan just happend to also work with him And same if blade gets an Hp support in future, that hp support will be ment to support newer units as well who outclass blade in every way
There is nothing bad to plateu hp and scaling of 5* and enemies even in terms of company earning. Look at GI. You still can do full star clears with 4 years old units and in hsr its less than 2 yrs and already 4* only runs at floor 11 now instead of floor 12. xddgarlic. GI also raises up enemies HP and dps multipliers but it do pretty much only this while hsp - Above hp and multipliers increases you also do exact bosses for specific banners with mechanics with x2 favorite them and making old ones look 4 times worse. There is a reason why there is alot new enemies which does not attack. To make Clara being not just 50% behind in terms of raw damage but also make her not even able to compete. And this is in every dps. DPA for current meta dpses is like 30-40% better than old ones in similliar cost but in real gameplay in terms of cycles they are like double or even triple performance just because they meet BiS bosses have BiS turbulence and also this Boss is super unfair for old 5*. Just tell me. Why in Choir Trio they put middle guy without Imagine res? I'll tell you - to counter DHIL. Why if they make good boss for old char too but then they make first wave is painful. Remember first CHoir MoC 12 ? Why the fuck trottle with second turn have Lightning weakness if Argenti doesnt have it?
If hoyo activately buffed characters, it would encourage players to essentially get every character, there would be no L in getting those characters That would mean more money, no?
I remember playing Princess Connect global and we can upgrade the character to 6 stars (the max is 5 stars) and seeing the 3 main heroines became super good like Meta good is so cool. The new characters is always better but with that system the old character can catch up
@@broccoli5176 Its not exactly Priconne fault but Crunchyroll the one who handling the global server fault. The game is doing fine at the time not great but not bad either. The jp server is still going on fine rn if you want to check. It just Crunchyroll sucks
Have to disagree. His Lord on max stacks has almost the same multiplier as Feixiao's ult. If they really want to, they can make characters who will make the most of his kit easily.
If Mihoyo does decide to add boosts to the 1.x characters, a dilemma will arise. The next time you raise your power level, players will want new changes for more characters. On Mihoyo's part, they made a mistake by making all the 2.x characters a cut stronger. We also faced the problem of adjusting the HP of enemies to the power level of new units. This is probably the second mistake that has been made.
With all the HP inflation a simple solution for older characters for now is just buff their multipliers so they can at least keep up with the newer characters. Like for example Feixiao has a 700% ultimate & Seele has a 425% ultimate....why not just bump Seele's numbers up to 600% cause they are both single target Hunt characters. Also what is the point of future rerun banners if the characters remain the same in future patches.....like say in 5.0 there is a Blade or Jingyuan banner.....who in their right mind will pull on these.
They're doubling down on archetypes, there's no reason to powercreep old units in a major way when players will end up pull for new units anyways just because they need/want a full premium 5 star team of each archetype to comfortably clear content.
@@Accountthatexists Gallagher is a 4 star and Ratio is still good. I'm not saying there won't be any powercreep, but it's not going to be current BIade levels of powercreep. This isn't going to be any different than something like Genshin yet everyone is acting like it's HI3.
hoyo could take a page out of arknights' book and add something like modules to buff some multipliers and traces for older characters, to at least bring them closer to actual units
Dragalia lost was a good game but the grinding and coop lockout was insane. Also the augment system can feel like a whole new character in HI3 but for others its more like a direct buff. The other thing is the Weapons and their upgrades especially signature ones like the Divine Keys.
My jingliu us #1 on seelaland no sig. And she literally cannot clear this moc. I am barely clearing jt with acheron jq/ feixiao. The powercreep is insane in this game.
One thing that I think is worth noting that, since launch, people have been saying we will NEVER get a relic reroll system NOR a custom substat system because it's too implausible and HSR wants you to spend hours on the game trying to get good relics. Now here we are approaching 2.7 and about to get BOTH systems we've been begging for, along with even more QoL features. I think it's totally within reason to ask for these things, and expect them at this point. We know they can and we know they are paying attention.
Money hoyo gets if they rerun luocha seele silverwolf argenti jingliu ratio: literally 0 Money hoyo gets when they rerun these characters after buffing them: like a bajillion dollars
And that the enabler in genshin is elemental reactions, everyone can do it. While in HSR the enablers are certain 5 stars like Robin, Ruan Mei, Sunday, while also being very niche as well.
This is why stopped caring about HSR I started playing when they gave out Dr Ratio for free. I have Silver Wolf, Ruan Mei, Kafka, Black Swan, Sparkle, Acheron E2, Aventurine, Topaz, Feixiao and Fu Xuan. I feel like the units I pulled last year cannot keep up whereas in Genshin even the original 4 stars pull some solid weight. In HSR I feel like I am constantly behind something if clear MOC I cannot clear Pure Fiction, if I can clear Pure Fiction I cannot clear Apocalyptic Shadow and the cycle continues. I feel like my progress is going nowhere. If I save up to pull for future units there is a good possibility they will just power crept again. I feel like this game does not reward you for your choices but rather punishes you for pulling for your favorite characters or your desired way of clearing. I will just pull HSR occasionally I like the story that's why I kept until now but I feel like power creep will just keep on increasing more and more. Genshin does better in this aspect that you can still clear with your older units without them feeling inherently shit.
That's the issue with a turn based game, the only way they can realistically make it more difficult is to inflate numbers. It's not like you can make an enemy that is more demanding of technical skill because it's turn based. In a game like ZZZ or WuWa you can have enemies with weird parry timings, faster attack chains, etc. Hell you can even do what they did in ZZZ with their infinite tower mode and make it so enemies one shot your characters if they hit you, essentially making it so you have to play perfectly with your parry/dodges because a single mistake costs you a character. You can't really make enemies in Star Rail do one shot damage regularly because there's no counter play to that. Once the enemy's turn comes up they would just kill you. Now you could maybe do some gimmick where they one shot you if you don't break them or kill adds or something but then again that just means if you don't have a break character or a character that's helpful for that gimmick you can't do anything. My point is that you can't really bump up the difficulty of the inherent skill required to perform the gameplay because there is no skill required, it's turn based, so your only recourse to making the game harder is more numbers or gimmicks (which will favor new units obv)
I have an insane idea. Team up units. You must have two characters and do a power up event. Afterwards they can be played as a single unit with different abilities. You must own both old units to activate this. Think Bronya + Seele or DanIL + General like in the cut scenes.
The problem isn't new units getting stronger, it's ENEMIES getting stronger. Just feels bad when your unit that used to clear MoC 12 super easily now can't clear that same level. Imo powercreep wouldn't really be a problem if MoC etc. didn't get HP-buffed to the moon, if they didn't raise the turn limit from 14 to 20, or if MoC 10+ just didn't have jade rewards. (+ the AS and PF equivalents)
People hate on genshin so much and I think a lot of it its justified but genshin's powercreep is one of things I wish hsr copied, yes.. there is powercreep in genshin but it wasn't noticeable until natlan came hutao was the best or one of the best dps for years.
The thing with Genshin units is they also release units that are straight up bad sometimes or need A LOT of extra copies so I don’t really like how Genshin handles its characters either.
In honkai 3rd do they actually kinda buff older characters by making new weapons and stigmata Set that you have to get through the gacha. Not every char gets this and not very often either though.
These systems are all great but if profit is a concern they could also just release new signature lightcones specifically for a single character kinda like equipments in dragon ball legends
they ask for buff for old character, let me tell you, hoyoverse wont do it.. this happen start from honkai 3rd. the old character become trash. they just making New 5 star signature weapon and put PRI-Arm feature to that weapon and new stigmata & New OP Valkyrie Support buffer..But you need to get them from gacha HHAHAHA. thats how you want make it old character become stronger. but still you cant get a million of dmg, because of New enemy mechanism.. thats why need meta valkyrie to done this job.. is feel pain but thats reality in honkai 3rd.. i dont think hoyoverse buff old character.. but hoyoverse already gave us Pure fiction to making us satisfying because can use old character there lmao
genshin did buff a lot of older units though. 1.x dps like xiao and diluc got massive buffs from xianyun’s release. heck she made every character in the game a solid plunge dps as long as you had c6 bennett. furina made all the healers in the games relevant again. nahida made keqing and many old 4* like kuki or thoma good (who were basically irrelevant pre-dendro). you don’t see it happening in hsr at all and the fact that besides gallagher, hunt march, tingyun and maybe pela most of the 4* are completely useless doesn’t help
Definitely would want a buff system. Still use Jingliu and clear but I can tell in the near future with how the game is moving she won’t be doing too good🤣
I love using people's Jinglius for Calyxes, her animations being shorter than others means that against the waves, she saves me half the time it takes having Firefly do all the work
Brother. The problem is not the old units. Its the HP and toughness inflation that went through the roof to accomodate superbreak units without having enough units out that are free and resolve the issue as a cohesive team. I returned from not playing 3 months and even having every unit including ruan mei, I stopped pulling since robin. It has been devastating to see that I cant 36 stars MoC or any endgame conten because of said insane inflation and speed on oponents. It completely invalidates ALL of the money you invest. There is no 0-10 cicle with old units. Reapectfully make a video with only units before robin all at C0 and you wont be able to 36 star because you are going to lack 1 team that can superbreak. You commenters that come around trying to help like you knew anything. Show you Id and show me your 36 star clear with old units before robin at c0 before you start theorizing and speculating nonsense. I know because I tried and have every unit well built.
Yeah there was no issue playing QQ in 2.1 now its a struggle to even 5 cycle which is bare minimum clearing time. You shouldn't have to vertically invest and use the apex tier supports just for old unit to do bare minimum clears.
They should add the system where you can buy cores over a period of time to unlock eidolons on old characters like Seele who hasn’t had another rerun compared to Topaz or DHIL. Make the bottom 5 used 5 stars upgradable with in-game currency
In Honkai they add new weapons 'divine keys' that basically change the play style of the character like Herrscher of finality Kiana and Senti, brining them back to meta
i feel like crk did it best w magic candies and jam crystals adds new stuff to their skills but requires more effort to build to counteract the strength
I think it would be cool if for new story that continues the storyline in old world also adds some sort of buffs to characters related to that world or story. This way it could show how the old characters in the backgrounds has continue getting stronger one way or another. Just an example, like how yanqing gotten stronger in the story it would have been nice for him to get some sort of buff as it works with the story we experienced. whether it through some sort of augment or whatever, i just find it would be nice, prop wont happen but food for thoughts.
I do enjoy getting the new things, but it's a honest waste how quickly units get powercrept, I'm no a Jinglu super fan, i was just interested and wanted to get her LC in the re run, but by then she was already not looking promising at all and I've always struggled to clear with her, Hertha is more reassuring because she can use Robin with synergy. As much i wanted to invest more in JL, including more eidolons, it was already feeling like a waste bcs she also never got a premium support that grants energy enough to smooth her rotation and so i didn't, I've been playing since day one, only have a few months i didn't play, i got a lot of old 5* that just feel as trash as 4* that never warranted use like Natasha or Arlan and in that list i hate to say it, but Seele, JL, Acheron, soon Sparkle are there. In a lesser extent Welt bcs i never expected him to carry me much anywhere besides DHIL's catered meta. the only LCs i didn't get of the characters j mentioned were JL and Acheron, so yes, mine are weaker than the baseline hoyo intends, but by the rerun, which is currently for Acheron, she already is not promising at all and I it's more reassuring to save for agalea, and it likely won't matter if i get the lc or not, it might be a shame bcs by her re run this will repeat itself but I'll be comfortable for a good time and that's the race we're being heavily suggested to part take in
@fl2ur mentioned HI3s old augment core system but a better example would be the thing they do now of introducing a new weapon (HSR equivalent is LC) and stigmata set (HSR equivalent is Relic set) that dramatically improves an old character. There have been a bunch of these over the years that have been very impactful. Not sure they'll do it in HSR tho 😢
We need a Blade rerun badly my wallet is so freaking fat I wanna whale up and oil up for Bladie let me have the chance to e6s5 plz hoyo anything for blade you can take everything from me 3.0 I BELIEVE BLADE BLADDEEEEE EBLADEEEE
Genshin doesn't really need a buff per se, seeing how apart from freeze teams and Anemo dps(not Chasca she's all element dps) which are struggling, characters from 1.x like Hu Tao, Zhongli, Keqing, Sucrose and the national trio are still useful to clear endgame content relatively quickly. Part of it is because the game is really easy and you can somewhat counter the lower damage with good skills (fast rotation, weird ass 4 star artifact build that are actually broken, mob grouping, etc). In HSR, I feel like you are much more dependent on the strength of your build and your characters and there aren't as much tech you can do to significantly shorten the clear cycle.
I tried using Seele on MoC floor 10, 35k on mobs and 60k on ulti. Game over ~ I know they wanna sell new chars but don't leave old units left to dust. They deserve love equally to new ones, they had carried us through hard MoCs, SU, Swarm, PF. At least make them usable.
@@Undead_Grius seele + sig bronya + sig gepard and natasha made my early game smooth sailing. Later I swapped geppie with fu xuan and nat with lynx, it was fun mono quantum team. Nothing trouble me so much except Luofu shielded soldier who summon reinforcements. Later i change my team as meta goes on like DoT, Jingliu hyper carry, Acheron, FF break. But I still wanna use Seele sometimes since she is my very first 5* in hsr.
10:12 this argument about comparing only hsr and fgo has poor structure. You need to look broader. Epic seven for example has specialty changes which upgrades 3 star characters to be closer to 5 stars. In addition, 5 stars arent left out either. They also get something called an exclusive equipment for select 5 stars. Which gives them a substat boost on top of a small upgrade to one of their abilities. And they have skins. And pity is 120.
I think MHY considers Eidolons + New Artifacts/Relics etc. sets as the "buffs" for the character since its upfront and less controversial than changing stats. Eidolons especially are kind of them getting you to pull the character again iliterally, so who needs to buff them when you might get E1/E2 on a rerun, etc." They should explicitly make E1/E2 and sig LCs more tuned around keeping the characters relevant through shifting metas rather than being parts of their kit that improve functionality in ways that fix their arbitrary problems they play with (too little energy, turn durations, etc.)
They just need to release better supports that tailor towards the older units, for example if Blade gets an hp buffer/drainer or JL getting a jiaoqiu that buffs dmg% and skill dmg
what if moc just let us chose the buffs we want so instead of hyper buffing the shiny new unit we can pick the moc buff that came out when seele or jingliu came out to use it for them instead
One way to buff old unit is with the way how HI3 did. HI3 made a new system to upgrade a 5* weapon to 6* weapon with all of it kits to support or buffing the desired character to the point when it first introduced the worst character can compete with the strongest character by just having the 6* weapon on them. In HSR they can probably made a new system similar to this but except on LC it implement on the character. Or another way is probably pulling like a new path for the old character. It will be the same cases as HMC and march 7th. Best way is to entirely rework every old character kit like increase their multiplier but probably won't happen.
@@tdof7217 game is very old. Also, suits before Nymph just have very shitty kitmoves - which results in DPS losses. HoHe is surprisingly decent on Starless Hephaestus, for example, and she is 6.0 character in 7.8 patch.
X.4 and X.5 tend to be non-new planet driven stories so they cah use those as lore/buff patches for older units. Like Yanqing has been getting hyped for a new power-up for ages now (1.4, 2.4, 2.5) GIVE HIM BUFFS MIHOYO AND NOT JUST HIM
TBH I don't think the idea of "It wouldn't make sense lore-wise" is a good argument against buffing older units because even now, older units that ARE stronger in-lore are not stronger in practice. Like Jingliu is canonically powerful AF but she's outpaced Clara and Yunli. It would also mean Luocha would be like the best heal sustain in the entire game but instead he's outpaced for Huohuo, Fu Xuan, Gallagher, and Lingsha, and none of those characters have the remnant of an aeon on hand like he does. Jing Yuan is getting outpaced by Himeko and he has the legitimate blessing of Lan. The balance of this game doesn't even currently abide by it's own damn canon I think it's only fair to see older units get brought up because Seele should be able to keep up with Dr Ratio from a consumer standpoint, and that's all that should matter in the case of the argument for/against buffing older units.
@@brytonwhitforddeazevedo1013 but that could be used to make a counter argument that unit like Yan Qing should definitely be buffed to represent his growth
@@i_dont_have_a_youtube_chan8584 He should just be buffed, period. It's clear they made his kit before they even worked out hoe encounter design would work, that's what lead to him being so useless. His kit is literally antithetical to encounter design in this game. But he should just be buffed /because/ he's bad, not because he's canonically meant to be stronger. Very unsure as to why Hoyo is so averse to post-release balance seeing as HSR is the only gacha I've ever played with this issue.
@@i_dont_have_a_youtube_chan8584 Yeah which is awful esp because you know it's going to be tied to his progression as a character in the story. It's why IO'm still mad about Dan Heng IL being a limited 5 star instead of just being given to players seeing as that was the peak of Dan Heng's character ark on the Luofu. Girls Frontline solved this in 2016 where your starting 4 star characters got 5 star upgrades for free, and they were actually competitive, too. M4A1 remodeled was one of the best DPS units in the game when I stopped playing in 2021 and that was 4 years after she got her remodel. It's not like HSR is ever lacking for fan fave characters they COULD make bank off of that make sense to be a limited 5 star, like Feixiao, Robin, Aventurine, etc. Hoyo is just ridiculously greedy even by gacha standards and if the games weren't as polished as they are then their games would be considered to be cash grab gachas on par with the likes of Love Live School Idol Festival.
Lore is the most stupid argument ever. If lore actually mattered for combat then hoolay would've had ice weakness, but noo it has wind for feixiao physical for yunli and fire for goddamn firefly because those are the 3 characters ur meant to play
Hoyo doesn't make it super clear that power creep occurs. They know most casuals don't care about those concerns. They have zero interest to buff older units. If you want to look at a company who knows how to mitigate power creep and buff old units to make them still usable (while not as good as the best, still, usable) check out PGR leap system! Kuro~
Honestly I feel like supports are ruining Honkai Star rail. Characters like Robin and Ruan Mei are so incredibly plain and boring(Design, personality and animation wise) that absolutely nobody would pull for them.... So hoyo makes them so incredibly broken that they're bis for half the teams in the game, and then when people who pulled them clear moc easily, they inflate the hp pool by 400% so the ONLY way to 3 star is by pulling them. I wanna pull cool dps like Firefly or Feixiao or Boothill, not some boring singer or scientist, but those units lose half their damage by not having them and there's no alternative. I can replace Feixiao with Ratio or Firefly with break Himeko. I can't replace Robin or Ruan Mei. Thankfully Sunday is a step in the right direction because he's actually interesting. Hopefully they continue the trend.
Between Ruan Mei and Robin they are BIS in 100% of teams pretty much. Yeah there may not be a "must pull" character but they are as close as you are going to get to having one. Tbh even Sunday is kinda boring as well they combined Bronya and Tingyun kit to work for summons. He is already the best support for hypercarry teams powercreeping every previous hypercarry support while also working in summon teams. I'd say thats another step in the wrong direction if new support character can be dominant in their niche and dominate in the previous supports niche as well.
Finally some w take. What the another most annoying thing about top tier harmony characters - is other players gonna sh t at you if you skipped them. Like, why I'm getting insulted just skipping character which i hate
5:40 I disagree, skins take away the focus from the main spending, which is getting the actual character, and also, it would mean having to make skins for all the characters, which will take away time from actually making new content, and introducing new characters. Imagine if you take 100 days to make a character work properly without breaking the game, if you have a 100 characters and introduce just 1 skin for each character, that just means 100 times more work hours to make sure the game doesn't break and the skins don't look weird when in gameplay and battle. And Most people won't get the skins, they would rather just get the character.... so why even bother? In other gacha games where skins are the main product, it would make sense, but in Genshin/hsr skins are NOT the main product. In Hi3 however, skins ARE the main product.
Make endgame modes give buffs to certain characters every rotation like this patch gives blade 200% more dmg and the next rotation make sw implant aoe or smth , I'd be funny
About the FGO buff system. FGO operates in a whole diff level of complexity than any Hoyoverse game. For start Most of the times the raw damage of units is well...not enough to take bosses (like real bosses not tue guys for the first half of the story). There are boss killing units that are versio 1.0 of the game? Yes. They still need lv10 skill (i will go back to this later) and atleast max level NP (which means Max level dupes) or Max level Affinity (Herc) to worth with 100% efficiency. What Fl2ur dont mention to the community that dont know FGO is that Skills and farmig in general in FGO is not efficient outside events which means skill leveling for new players is...not happening (and they implemented A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of help for new players in the form of a currency that can be exchange for ANY upgrade item you need) so you can max level max skill level atleast 6 core units. But after you use everything? the next time you will use a NEW unit is when an event comes up and you farm it all. Which by the way takes a LOT of time and a LOT of energy currency. This is important because this is a game with REALLY hard boss battles and a Rock Papper Scissor system that really punish you for not bringing the right DpS to the right fight. Its a really hard game (with very broken supports but that is besides the point) tht ask the players a lot of grinding a lot of reading and a lot of time invesment. That is WHY FGO has a buff system because there are units that actually 100% CANT CLEAR CONTENT even with brute force or are so inneficient that take 4 times the time that they need for a fight that they should be clearing. The level of gameplay powercreep (not Unit vs Unit comparation but Unit vs Content) is HUGE. Compare it with HSR and is just funny. Specially for how little currency you get for the pull ratios of the game that are also VERY BAD.
If Hoyo reruns them players pulling for those characters are only shooting themselves in leg since they are kinda behind compared to new characters. Maybe they should be added into stelar wrap after some time.
To be fair, while star rail is younger, characters like bronya and himeko still sees play and perform well, and those are standard characters since the games release. Pokke also showed off seele still performing well too, with help from an invested sparkle.
Yes i see 1.0 gensh1t characters like klee keeping up with neuvillete. In hsr supports like suday will bring back jy to the level of acheron, nothing in gensh1t is bringing klee to the level of neuvillete. Let's not talk about the state of venti and albedo.
@@AkashSingh-d5hbut Klee can still clear the abyss at c0. Also there are quite a few dps in Genshin that aren’t Neuvillette level that can 36* the abyss
@@AkashSingh-d5h Lmao... Comparing the powercreep in HSR to Genshin is a joke... Any c0 5 star from 1.0 even with f2p build can 36* abyss... National team variant from 1.0 (with childe for example) is still one of the strongest team... Heck even the 4 stars team like electro charged Sucrose with XQ, Beidou, FIschl is still really strong... What 1.0 team in HSR can keep up with the current meta??? Literaly none.
So many other gacha's at the very least go back and buff some base stats on old characters or numbers within their kit to help keep up with the latest and greatest. They still won't be as good as the new toys, but they can at least function and perform without it feeling miserable.
I don't really mind switching up my roster every so often. It gets a bit boring to hyper focus on one team/DPS for years at a time tbh. But for the love of god Hoyo, when introducing a new generation of meta characters don't make them into recycled slop like Sunday. We literally have two units that work *exactly* like him ffs. At least the Robin experience was completely fresh when she came out. Ruan Mei too, even if her actual inputs are pretty brain dead the effect she has on the team was novel. Action advance for characters *and* summons just feels so lazy.
Advancing summons is actually revolutionary, just look at all the Jing Yuan and even Lingsha showcases with Sunday, it's just that there aren't a lot of characters with summons right now
Mrpokke says : " you NEED new supports" But what if for me new supports/characters are mess? Not for damage increase, but for a character itself? I still must pull a character that i don't want to and use it with almost all my teams for a year? Don't want to hurt someone feelings, but for me it's the situation when you need to eat shit to be healthy. If this is it I've better be bricked.
It is what it is then. If you love seele, get sparkle so she can take off. If you love firefly, get Ruan Mei so she can take off. If you love feixiao, get Robin so she can take off. Etc. Almost all characters are just pieces to a puzzle for optimal results. If you don't want to get there ideal partners, ok. It's your game, your life. But don't complain the games too hard when you refuse to get the basic foundation for your team. If I don't use hmc, my firefly is awful. It is what it is. 🤷
@@GodofGoblinsnah if you love seele get Sunday using sparkle on seele feels worthless with Sunday being better with seele even if Sunday is supposedly for summon
@HeyItsme-c8x you can use either one, including bronya. Sunday gives energy which is nice, sparkle helps with sp, bronya...I guess cleanses? My point is pick up and invest in any premium support if someone wants there old dps to shine. If Sunday is best for seele, cool. Pull him.
Pretty off topic I know but i've been curious about this for awhile now for when she makes a return, does E1 or E2 change anything for Firefly in Pure fiction? Or does she stay a T1 unit in there?
@cynuik Would you say that E2 is a big enough boost to kick her up a tier or two in pure fiction? Or is it better to get a first copy of Lingsha over E6 Gallagher to make Firefly's team do better in pure fiction?
More like Genshin is the anomaly among gacha space rather than ZZZ and HSR. Gacha games have power creep, it is inevitable. I think it was a miracle Genshin has been stable in the powercreep for this long.
Genshin is the one that doesn’t really suffer from power creep really at all… old units still clear fine. It’s the reason it’s the most casual friendly, because the balancing was actually handled well enough to not be super annoying and it has a good base system with the elemental reaction system. I don’t play Genshin but it’s still not a problem from what I’ve seen from people. Powercreep in HSR is done to make the best characters harder to clear with by increasing hp, the powercreep you’re talking about with Genshin is that they released a disgusting dps but they don’t balance the game around Nuev like they base the hp of enemies based on Feixiao’s and Firefly’s damage in HSR. Genshin straight up doesn’t really care about difficulty really and when they do they have more freedom with actual enemy design, that’s why so many people were saying “WuWa is so much more difficult” when it released, this makes it so much more comfortable even if people hate the game… because it’s a gacha that doesn’t really powercreep at all
With genshin not really. Old characters like hu tao are still absurdly strong compared to the content there is. Newer characters are stronger for sure on average but that doesnt really matter if abyss isnt balanced around that which it isnt. HSR on the other hand shills new units way harder and older units are actually struggling unless they recieve new modern supports to overcome their weaknesses
People don't realize that hsr is doing the augment thing in hsr. Take march7th hunt for example. So chill out maybe other characters will be implemented too.
How can Acheron be buffed is very simple, 1 sustain or preservation (shielding) Nihility like Lingsha done. Jingliu is more tricky... but also doable if one sustain/preservation is made to implant ICE weakness, that would put her back on the track. Isn't so hard to buff both of those characters. but guess what they ain't doing it. cause they need to sell new characters.
The main issue is their way of powercreeping is to just inflate the HP pool of enemies and then give new characters better multipliers to counter the inflated HP. We should be getting more bosses with gimmicks that incentivize team building rather than just "pull the new unit" since right now it feels like if you don't have two or more of Acheron, Feixiao, Break DPS, or Yunli, you have a huge disadvantage. A boss without any types on their weakness bar to make Silver Wolf more appealing while still making the break implanters good, a boss that takes half damage from skills but double damage from basic attacks boosts up Blade/Dan Dragon/QQ along with Jade, a boss that takes more damage the more times you attack it before it attacks for units like Seele while still being good for follow up units, Hoyo needs to give reasons to expand your roster and try out different characters instead of just giving us bigger sponges to brute force with newer units.
what you've just stated is a "pull the new unit" meta though no? if you have to expand your roster to keep up then its literally pull every unit or lose, while with bigger hp sponges you can just upgrade old characters.
Turbulences already boost some units over others and none of this is going to fix the powercreep "problem" as new units will be able to counter these mechanics while dealing more dmg than old ones.
@strykeralpha9650 I'm trying to describe a scenario where you can continue to use characters you've already pulled while still having reasons to pull the new units, without feeling like it's impossible to clear endgame unless you have whoever is on the banner. Like a boss where a stronger Blade is obviously better to use, but if you already have Blade you're not angry that he's made irrelevant. Six months ago Acheron was the best DPS around, now people are talking about her like she's going to fade into irrelevance any day now. Sunday isn't even out yet and everyone is already looking down on him because they just assume a better Sunday will come out in a few patches. Hoyo has cultivated a very unhealthy way to look at new units, when a majority of the playerbase just wants to pull whoever they think is cool.
Clara still works pretty well in Yunli's place. units like Seele have fallen off a cliff but not all of them have.
What you're saying is basically.
Pull for old unit to give the damage the boss wants
And not
Pull for new unit because it gives more damage since the boss was more hp.
So what you're basically saying is them doing the same thing as they're doing but for older units.
And most of all that would not have the intended effect since they would release a new unit that has better multipliers than old units that works the same as an old unit so you'll just be creating a skin of that old unit
if only mihoyo has the balls to rebalance characters
More like all CN gacha game companies
@@giangtrinhtruong7952 arknights does it all the time they don't give a shit, its primarily hoyo that just refuses.
@@giangtrinhtruong7952 plenty of them do... arknights, granted some people get other games like epic seven or summoners war confused as they're actually from south korea, summoners war has no pity system that im aware of or might for something special here and there, they buff all the time now as the community asks for it or nerfs etc, granted a large portion of the game is pvp as well, even during its early days they did buffs and nerfs just much less often or didn't buff the right units and so forth because it was to make money, they also sell a lot of skins and have far more mtx than a lot of other gacha type games, yet its still more than enough in game free to play options to be successful.
Epic seven was similar, granted as I said they're also south korean not chinese.
Plenty of games do it though
Yeah.....they don't
yeah but nah, they straight don't care about it, just money matters
Honnestly, I don't understand why mihoyo doesn't do these buffs because it costs pennies to them while incentivising investment on older units
(plus I think that giving the opportunity for new players to pull and build belobog era units without feeling f***** is valuable)
Eidolons and pressure. So people forget that if you invest smart, your older characters do fine. Pokke for example has an e2 sparkle, so his seele goes off. Same with dhil. That is by design. Hell, I plan on investing in my firefly because I know someday she will be garbage. Oh well, I'll have her E2 and my Ruan Mei is cracked, so she should be OK.
People gotta be smart on how they invest there characters. If you wanna use dhil to this day, skip his re run, and invest in your aventurine and pulled his sig...idk what to tell you. Why? Aventurine doesn't need it. To help my kafka dot, i invested in my ruan meim to this day it beats end game just fine.
And yes this is all by design to promote there new toys. Are you struggling? Aw well just pick up rappa and click auto battle. Yes that will make the game easy temporarily. But it's never necessary. You can use characters from 1.0 if you really want, without money spent, but you gotta be smart with how you invest in your account. Just offering perspective
Sure, eidolons do make life easier for these characters. However, most of these eidolons are for supports that would shine brighter on other dpss (making your dps of choice still weaker in comparison)
Plus that doesn't work for newer players. If you started right now and fell in love with Seele, you would need a considerably longer amount of time just to get on par with todays content than you would by choising feixiao even when you don't like her as much
Eidolons aren’t a valid argument. Vertical investment falls off in the long term versus horizontal investment in the first place (look at hi3rd, e0 rebirth dealing 20% more than e6 HoH, p2 characters powercreeping old units so badly they added new weapons for Kiana for her to be viable). Vertical should be an option, and if characters get buffed, players who vertically invested in their units will see an increase in longevity too.
@@GodofGoblins Idk about that one. Most DPS do about 2x damage at E6, and 2.x characters are already close to 2x the multipliers of 1.x characters, at this rate even E6 1.x characters will fall behind E0 3.x characters. And that's 6 potential newer 5*s you missed.
They'll still fall off eventually and then you'll have wasted 7 5*s worth of pulls instead of just 1. And who knows? for important characters like Kafka and SW, maybe they'll eventually release a newer version like with Herta? And then you'll feel EXTRA stupid for having wasted all those pulls just so you can make your favorite character barely on par with the newer ones.
Worst part is you're not even guaranteed to clear all the content anymore, since Hoyo seems to like scaling up bosses with newer units. If anything this whole debacle has just made me stop caring about full clearing the monthly stuff which in the long term means I'm only gonna pull my absolute favorite units and probably won't need monthly passes anymore. Which is a really good change for me actually, but not great for Hoyo if other people also feel like this.
@radiantcat540 yeah I mean point me to an example where a character is required to be E6 to beat end game. 4 stars? Sure. 5? People are beating moc with e1 seele. It's not that deep. At most, E2 is more than enough to handle content for the dps 5 stars. But yeah, it won't be easy. Your not gonna 0 or 1 cycle. But play well, build well, and invest smart (no money), and yes you can clear content with older characters. Hell my kafka Sampo team clears end game, but that's because I have an e1 s1 Ruan Mei. Just be smart with your investments. Just my perspective
The way Mihoyo has handled powercreep is really bad, because there are a bunch of different team types that could have sold new DPS for a long time without increasing the DPS ceiling so much so fast, especially since there are a bunch of team types missing characters. But they increase damage so much and also only focus on like 2 teams at a time while the others get nothing except maybe some supports that kind of work with them even though it's made for the favored teams. So I don't think there is a way to buff old DPS enough to catch up with just new characters or even relic sets if the damage creeps up as fast as it is now. They just can't do enough damage even by the time they get their first rerun. If they focused on pushing different teams instead of increasing damage and enemy HP, then maybe they could sell eidolons and new teammates for older characters at least for a while before they become irrelevant.
The main problem is the aggressive power creep in HSR. Even now there is no point in pulling any DPS units from version one as almost all of them are useless at this point. Not saying they can't be made to work but they are all sub optimal. I think the only one still hanging on to relevancy is Dr. Ratio (not sure, don't play him) and he was the last DPS prior to 2.0.
Two years from now all current DPS will be forgotten. There probably won't even be reruns for them because no one would pull them. E6 Seele probably won't even be able to clear story content by that point.
Congratulations 👏👏🎉
You have now noticed you are playing a gacha game.
A type of game where pulling units it's the intended way to get stronger
Jingliu or Blade?
@@afonsoteixeira6896 Congrats for dismissing their point with this goofy ahh comment.
@@Glast04 News at 11 life won't go as planned things will happen in which you have no control.
If you can't accept this fact you'll live quite the miserable life and I'm not dismissing his comment I'm just pointing out how dumb and retarded his comment is.
tbh even pulling a dps on their first rerun reduces their value a lot.
supports dont do thaaat much better on average either. we've had a few that have been edged out almost as fast as the dps chars have been.
4:24 YES they have done this a couple of times in HI3 and once for Zhongli (but yes as the video says im not gonna count this one) but Mihoyo does this a bunch of times in HI3, an example would be the Kallen battlesuit Ritual Imayoh BEFORE the release of Elysian Realm (Making sure people read the word BEFORE the release of ER so no one says "but ER is a game mode where your characters gets buff so that doesn't count 🤓"), just pointing this out to Mrpokke cuz twitch chat doesn't know about it, also nice discussion topic from Fl2ur.
I just hope they buff Blade cuz im wanting to pull for him one day, sucks that he's never in my priority list cuz of his kit (and sadly the "dreams" that i heard of probably gonna have 2 new characters overpowering him).
Glad to see someone else pointing this out, but yea they probably won't do this for HSR, my blade been sitting in the bench since i got free Ratio
@@haninjamaxflare555 HI3RD somehow start to buff new unit in the future
Sonque,vita and sparkle got secret astral ring 💪
when was the last time we had a companion mission
yunli iirc
Okay so I wasn't going crazy seeing that section of the quest journal empty for a long time
The argument that hoyo doesn't buff older character because it isn't profitable is a faulty one
Afterall, buffs are relatively low cost compared to creating a new character, while being able to create value that will incentivize people to pull (thought the numbers will be lower by virtue of some people already having the character)
But it trues that they haven't done that. They have so many ideas for new ones with the constant new 5* to the point that buffing older ones has yet come to minds, so not faulty.
@@giangtrinhtruong7952 this is a straw man fallacy you are presenting.
Just because introducing new character is always profitable, it doesn't mean that buffing older ones isn't.
The reason why Hoyo doesn't buff older characters is unknown.
The first argument that would come to mind would be lack of funds, but that's clearly not the case.
As profits are always rising, and the costs behind such buffs would be minimal relative to the cost of making a new character from scratch, and relative to potential revenues from such buffs.
But this is beside the point, at the end of the day, buffing other character would be profitable, therefore the argument presented is faulty
its false anyway cus they literally buff older units in hi3 albeit not very big upgrades but still
@@foolycoolies no they don't? sometimes they release a new weapon for them that makes them a bit better but you still have to pull for that lol
I would assume the reason they don't buff characters is because it requires effort. I totally agree that it's most likely a win/win situation for hoyo to start buffing characters but they're probably scared that people will be skipping pulling on new banners because their "old buffed characters does just fine". While they'll probably make up these pulls by people spending more on personal favorite characters than before.
While it's not hard to buff them there's not much that's easier than doing nothing. Especially when every content creator under the sun gases up every new character release like it's the second coming of jesus. Not to say that it's CC's fault but there's definately a "hoyoverse toxic positivty" vibe present which doesn't really exist to the same extent in smaller gachas wheere there's a lot more scepticism.
As someone who plays fgo, you do get ssr overall frequently but getting specific is harder. My account has 290 (45+ ssr not counting dupes) characters. Also in terms of rewards, fgo do give relatively lot of reward like last anni in NA gave 200-350 free pulls depends upon how far your account is progressed. I played E7 anni and I was averaging 2 5 star per week so hsr really isn't that generous relatively
As for augments, it's basically you can toggle between a different kit of character by unlocking augment by farming their chips. Some augments like Delta and Hawk of fog literally became best dps units after the buff in the game but they stopped doing that. Now they do divine key for some characters which basically is like rolling a new weapon that exclusively buff the character (recent HoFi divine key being an exception which retroactively buffs equipment of all her teammates as well) by giving them new moves
genshin makes it work because old units are still viable in an open world scenario and even in niche spiral abyss comps. hsrs hypercategoriztion in specific archetypes in a turn based game is just problematic
true, maybe old DPS have a hard time in genshin, but supports are eternal thanks to the elemental reactions and sometimes they can also help old DPS like Xiao
@@EngelAguilar Some old dps perform better than new ones lol wtf are you talkin about. Hutao is Better than Yoimiya and at the same level at Arle with almost 4 years difference between them. Cyno is worse than Keqing which is std 5* day1 char. Diluc std day1 char is also better than Yoimiya. Neuvilette is Better than Mualani with 1 year diff between. There is alot cases even in dps category. And even then you still can clear with relativly low cost Yoimiya \ CYno \ Ayato etc those chars are just worse than new ones or even some older ones but they still can clear all content as long as you play them right and build them good. The difference will be that someone like Neuvilette needs ~25 dps rolls on his artifacts and yoimiya needs like 35-40 and thats it.
@@feyandhisstuff9888 and isn't that the definition of a "hard time"? xD for those DPS you need to do a lot more to achieve the same result: clear spyral abyss, not because it's impossible to clear, but because the new DPS are very easy to play
@@EngelAguilar No? Kinich and Mualani are amongst the most difficult and frustrating characters to play, and they both dropped in Natlan. Chasca is very easy to play, as is Neuvillette, but some of the older characters are also very easy to play. To use the already mentioned characters, Ayato and Yoimiya are literally just NA spam and you're good. The argument that newer characters = easier than older chars is just flawed. Literally look at Sumeru where the move was just turn off your brain and use hyperbloom, and compare that to Fontaine and Natlan where you need to actually properly pilot a team around an on fielder. Besides, there is no one with a good Ayato or Yoimiya team that should be struggling to clear abyss. Because, even though it's gotten harder, improved also have the supports, weapons, artifact sets, etc, that can bring the older, usually weaker characters, up to a level to destroy the abyss. That isn't to say you need those newest things either, as they should still be able to clear relatively well even without the new meta characters/gear. I mean I can literally still full clear every abyss with physical RAZOR of all characters. Like cmon now.
@@EngelAguilar No. Its not. because some old dps have better times than new ones. Mualani gives much more frustration than Neuvilette and she is 5.0 against him 4.1 1 year diff.
They just need to stop their hp inflation
Just make few buff options for MOC/PF etc. This allows older forgotten meta to be competitive with newer one. Also, stop HP inflation for good.
they do have to buff older units eventually or reruns just outright won't sell for them anymore outside of a few sales as time goes on. Older characters should not be as strong or stronger then new characters and should always be weaker but the gap should be much closer then it currently is.
that's not how buffing works either, old characters can be stronger than new characters so many other gacha games do it and they do just fine and many of them are more competitive with pvp at that..
If hoyo decided to do something to sell jingyuan rerun by having Sunday.. I wonder how they will do with seele,jingliu and etc .. probably the reason why seele not rerunning soon cuz they tryna buff seele somehow.. but I could be wrong
If hoyo decided to do something to sell jingyuan rerun by having Sunday.. I wonder how they will do with seele,jingliu and etc .. probably the reason why seele not rerunning soon cuz they tryna buff seele somehow.. but I could be wrong
They do not already sell really well past first rerun. I guess that's the reason why Seele is no more
This is so mihoyo gatcha gamer pilled. You can def make 100+ different characters with really only 3 abilities each including passives that are unique and don’t just multiplier creep
Diffrence is, in FGO the 90% 1-4 star characters are actcually usefull unlike 90% of the 4 star characters in HSR. You only need meta supports in FGO you can pretty much use any DPS with them
It helps that Castoria is argubly the most broken support in gacha history that she can pretty much make anyone good in FGO.
Solution to powercreep in HSR, just add Castoria /s
I think the traces idea is actually great. Once per patch they could expand the traces tree of old characters. Still have to invest TBP which I think is fair.
The Difference between FGO and HSR is that few max ranks are limited in Fate, so you can find them whenever you want. Hsr, on the contrary, has most of its 5* limited, so it might take you even years before the unit you want has a banner. this is the reason why it has less pity and a guaranteed system on top of more gems per patch.
I don't play FGO, so what do you mean by few are limited? Do you mean that you can pull for any unit you want anytime or do you mean that they all go into a big standard banner pool? Cuz the first option would be really nice.
@@gwyddawggwyr1057 i have no idea what he said here, but to answer your question: No. Limited units don't ever go into standard banner. But the standard units in FGO are way way better than HSR and there are way more of them. There are also way more 4 star releases than HSR once in a blue moon 4*. And most 4* are very useable and some are outright best in their job. In Fate there are like 3-4 meta supports, if you have them, you can make anyone work. There is powercreep but it doesn't matter because if you have those 3-4 meta support you can clear anything. And the pity is worse but the gacha rates are better imo. I have more SSR in fate than in genshin just because the rate is better and they give more pulls. Not to mention they introduce a GURANTEED SSR banner every anniversary and new year, in which for the price of 2 welkins you get a SSR from a select pool of SSR you can choose.
@@michelebelviso879 actually there are far more limited units in fgo than non limited. It's just fgo isn't limited to 2 banners per patch so units are far more accessible
@@i_dont_have_a_youtube_chan8584 He did not say there are more non limited than limited in FGO. He said there are more non limited in FGO compared to HSR and these units are better than the standard banner ones in HSR.
@@JZBaltazar yeah, it's mostly cuz both hsr and genshin refuse to update perma banner frequently. Fgo had a time where they stopped adding to perma too but now they seem to be fine about it
videos like this are great because it looks like the HSR devs are actually listening to feedback. I wont be surprised if they compress the hp scaling at some point and just focus on releasing new units that balance out the old roster
I’ve seen what Sunday did to JY so far and it looks promising
The problem with this is that Sunday is very Cleary ment to be a support for the new roster of units
While chars like jingyuan just happend to also work with him
And same if blade gets an Hp support in future, that hp support will be ment to support newer units as well who outclass blade in every way
That is unbelievable cope😂
How is this comment 12 hours ago
High grade copium 😂
It's the philosophy "don't fix what isn't broken", if line going up => game working => no change needed.
There is nothing bad to plateu hp and scaling of 5* and enemies even in terms of company earning. Look at GI. You still can do full star clears with 4 years old units and in hsr its less than 2 yrs and already 4* only runs at floor 11 now instead of floor 12. xddgarlic. GI also raises up enemies HP and dps multipliers but it do pretty much only this while hsp - Above hp and multipliers increases you also do exact bosses for specific banners with mechanics with x2 favorite them and making old ones look 4 times worse. There is a reason why there is alot new enemies which does not attack. To make Clara being not just 50% behind in terms of raw damage but also make her not even able to compete. And this is in every dps. DPA for current meta dpses is like 30-40% better than old ones in similliar cost but in real gameplay in terms of cycles they are like double or even triple performance just because they meet BiS bosses have BiS turbulence and also this Boss is super unfair for old 5*. Just tell me. Why in Choir Trio they put middle guy without Imagine res? I'll tell you - to counter DHIL. Why if they make good boss for old char too but then they make first wave is painful. Remember first CHoir MoC 12 ? Why the fuck trottle with second turn have Lightning weakness if Argenti doesnt have it?
If hoyo activately buffed characters, it would encourage players to essentially get every character, there would be no L in getting those characters
That would mean more money, no?
On paper yes, but seems not in hoyo eyes. Well wait selee and JY rerun later and watch no one pull for em if no buff xd
I remember playing Princess Connect global and we can upgrade the character to 6 stars (the max is 5 stars) and seeing the 3 main heroines became super good like Meta good is so cool. The new characters is always better but with that system the old character can catch up
F for global
same bro, I miss my 6 star
why the fk you gotta remind me of pricon my man... FCK YOU CRUNCHYROLL
And where your great priconne now? oh alr dead on global
@@broccoli5176 Its not exactly Priconne fault but Crunchyroll the one who handling the global server fault. The game is doing fine at the time not great but not bad either. The jp server is still going on fine rn if you want to check. It just Crunchyroll sucks
How are they gonna “buff” Jing yuan every patch but then decided to inadvertently make him worse with bigger hp pools 💀
Have to disagree. His Lord on max stacks has almost the same multiplier as Feixiao's ult. If they really want to, they can make characters who will make the most of his kit easily.
chad fgo buffing old character making them usable but not as broken as newest one
If Mihoyo does decide to add boosts to the 1.x characters, a dilemma will arise. The next time you raise your power level, players will want new changes for more characters. On Mihoyo's part, they made a mistake by making all the 2.x characters a cut stronger.
We also faced the problem of adjusting the HP of enemies to the power level of new units. This is probably the second mistake that has been made.
SUUUUUUPA BLADE
With all the HP inflation a simple solution for older characters for now is just buff their multipliers so they can at least keep up with the newer characters. Like for example Feixiao has a 700% ultimate & Seele has a 425% ultimate....why not just bump Seele's numbers up to 600% cause they are both single target Hunt characters.
Also what is the point of future rerun banners if the characters remain the same in future patches.....like say in 5.0 there is a Blade or Jingyuan banner.....who in their right mind will pull on these.
I just want my Blade to do Bladillion damage is this really too much to ask?
3.X may be his time.
"70k, is unreachable for me..."
@@lucyxmob"I will dispatch u in 8 cycles"
@@lucyxmob"Savor it in my place"
They're doubling down on archetypes, there's no reason to powercreep old units in a major way when players will end up pull for new units anyways just because they need/want a full premium 5 star team of each archetype to comfortably clear content.
Well this is wrong
Proof: ghallagher got powercrwpt by linghsa
Ratio with fexiao
@@Accountthatexists Gallagher is a 4 star and Ratio is still good. I'm not saying there won't be any powercreep, but it's not going to be current BIade levels of powercreep. This isn't going to be any different than something like Genshin yet everyone is acting like it's HI3.
@@sct77 wasting your time. The bad players will always cry
hoyo could take a page out of arknights' book and add something like modules to buff some multipliers and traces for older characters, to at least bring them closer to actual units
Dragalia lost was a good game but the grinding and coop lockout was insane. Also the augment system can feel like a whole new character in HI3 but for others its more like a direct buff. The other thing is the Weapons and their upgrades especially signature ones like the Divine Keys.
My jingliu us #1 on seelaland no sig. And she literally cannot clear this moc. I am barely clearing jt with acheron jq/ feixiao. The powercreep is insane in this game.
One thing that I think is worth noting that, since launch, people have been saying we will NEVER get a relic reroll system NOR a custom substat system because it's too implausible and HSR wants you to spend hours on the game trying to get good relics. Now here we are approaching 2.7 and about to get BOTH systems we've been begging for, along with even more QoL features. I think it's totally within reason to ask for these things, and expect them at this point. We know they can and we know they are paying attention.
Money hoyo gets if they rerun luocha seele silverwolf argenti jingliu ratio: literally 0
Money hoyo gets when they rerun these characters after buffing them: like a bajillion dollars
Blue poch does buff old characters in r1999
They follow the system of Arknights so not unexpected, but I'm happy about that
His Seele example was literally the way FGO buff the characters.
harmony gang
devs really needs to figure this out, like who would get blade on a rerun in this economy
the thing about genshin is their elemental reaction and the goddamn broken artifact passive make any character viable
And that the enabler in genshin is elemental reactions, everyone can do it. While in HSR the enablers are certain 5 stars like Robin, Ruan Mei, Sunday, while also being very niche as well.
This is why stopped caring about HSR I started playing when they gave out Dr Ratio for free. I have Silver Wolf, Ruan Mei, Kafka, Black Swan, Sparkle, Acheron E2, Aventurine, Topaz, Feixiao and Fu Xuan. I feel like the units I pulled last year cannot keep up whereas in Genshin even the original 4 stars pull some solid weight. In HSR I feel like I am constantly behind something if clear MOC I cannot clear Pure Fiction, if I can clear Pure Fiction I cannot clear Apocalyptic Shadow and the cycle continues. I feel like my progress is going nowhere. If I save up to pull for future units there is a good possibility they will just power crept again. I feel like this game does not reward you for your choices but rather punishes you for pulling for your favorite characters or your desired way of clearing. I will just pull HSR occasionally I like the story that's why I kept until now but I feel like power creep will just keep on increasing more and more. Genshin does better in this aspect that you can still clear with your older units without them feeling inherently shit.
That's the issue with a turn based game, the only way they can realistically make it more difficult is to inflate numbers. It's not like you can make an enemy that is more demanding of technical skill because it's turn based.
In a game like ZZZ or WuWa you can have enemies with weird parry timings, faster attack chains, etc. Hell you can even do what they did in ZZZ with their infinite tower mode and make it so enemies one shot your characters if they hit you, essentially making it so you have to play perfectly with your parry/dodges because a single mistake costs you a character.
You can't really make enemies in Star Rail do one shot damage regularly because there's no counter play to that. Once the enemy's turn comes up they would just kill you.
Now you could maybe do some gimmick where they one shot you if you don't break them or kill adds or something but then again that just means if you don't have a break character or a character that's helpful for that gimmick you can't do anything.
My point is that you can't really bump up the difficulty of the inherent skill required to perform the gameplay because there is no skill required, it's turn based, so your only recourse to making the game harder is more numbers or gimmicks (which will favor new units obv)
My welt is still clearing MOC 12 to this day…. For now 😔
e1 robin carry?
@@whydoiexist2180 has to be
One side 0 cycle Feixiao/Firefly
Other side 10 cycle E6 Welt
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
SUPAWELT
Superwelt o7
I have an insane idea. Team up units. You must have two characters and do a power up event. Afterwards they can be played as a single unit with different abilities. You must own both old units to activate this. Think Bronya + Seele or DanIL + General like in the cut scenes.
L + ratio
The problem isn't new units getting stronger, it's ENEMIES getting stronger.
Just feels bad when your unit that used to clear MoC 12 super easily now can't clear that same level.
Imo powercreep wouldn't really be a problem if MoC etc. didn't get HP-buffed to the moon, if they didn't raise the turn limit from 14 to 20, or if MoC 10+ just didn't have jade rewards. (+ the AS and PF equivalents)
People hate on genshin so much and I think a lot of it its justified but genshin's powercreep is one of things I wish hsr copied, yes.. there is powercreep in genshin but it wasn't noticeable until natlan came hutao was the best or one of the best dps for years.
All "content" in Genshit is made for brainless monkeys, that's the whole reason. Sorry, but that's a bad example.
The thing with Genshin units is they also release units that are straight up bad sometimes or need A LOT of extra copies so I don’t really like how Genshin handles its characters either.
@@kyuzairen5383 there are really few straight up bad 5-stars in genshin though, like I can only think about Yoimiya, Albedo and maybe Wanderer
until natlan? you mean fontaine right?
In honkai 3rd do they actually kinda buff older characters by making new weapons and stigmata Set that you have to get through the gacha. Not every char gets this and not very often either though.
Oh, you're suggesting they add reinforcement to old characters obtained through gacha? You're smart (no)
@@broccoli5176 over having your old favourite character being unusable ever. Umm yeah that's better
These systems are all great but if profit is a concern they could also just release new signature lightcones specifically for a single character kinda like equipments in dragon ball legends
True but they could also just give new multipliers like zenkais in legends
@kingky9600 Definitely the better choice to just give them out for free but maybe they wanna go the pull for extra stuff route..
@@spondyloss please no...
they ask for buff for old character, let me tell you, hoyoverse wont do it.. this happen start from honkai 3rd. the old character become trash. they just making New 5 star signature weapon and put PRI-Arm feature to that weapon and new stigmata & New OP Valkyrie Support buffer..But you need to get them from gacha HHAHAHA. thats how you want make it old character become stronger. but still you cant get a million of dmg, because of New enemy mechanism.. thats why need meta valkyrie to done this job.. is feel pain but thats reality in honkai 3rd.. i dont think hoyoverse buff old character.. but hoyoverse already gave us Pure fiction to making us satisfying because can use old character there lmao
genshin did buff a lot of older units though. 1.x dps like xiao and diluc got massive buffs from xianyun’s release. heck she made every character in the game a solid plunge dps as long as you had c6 bennett. furina made all the healers in the games relevant again. nahida made keqing and many old 4* like kuki or thoma good (who were basically irrelevant pre-dendro). you don’t see it happening in hsr at all and the fact that besides gallagher, hunt march, tingyun and maybe pela most of the 4* are completely useless doesn’t help
Definitely would want a buff system. Still use Jingliu and clear but I can tell in the near future with how the game is moving she won’t be doing too good🤣
I'm a Seele main and I am gasping for air for endgame content
We gotta get a survey and have the community and CN especially to ask for this.
I love using people's Jinglius for Calyxes, her animations being shorter than others means that against the waves, she saves me half the time it takes having Firefly do all the work
Unironically FGO seems to be the only game that buffs all characters through strength quests multiple times
Most of cygames game do that too.
epic seven
Brother. The problem is not the old units. Its the HP and toughness inflation that went through the roof to accomodate superbreak units without having enough units out that are free and resolve the issue as a cohesive team. I returned from not playing 3 months and even having every unit including ruan mei, I stopped pulling since robin. It has been devastating to see that I cant 36 stars MoC or any endgame conten because of said insane inflation and speed on oponents. It completely invalidates ALL of the money you invest. There is no 0-10 cicle with old units. Reapectfully make a video with only units before robin all at C0 and you wont be able to 36 star because you are going to lack 1 team that can superbreak. You commenters that come around trying to help like you knew anything. Show you Id and show me your 36 star clear with old units before robin at c0 before you start theorizing and speculating nonsense. I know because I tried and have every unit well built.
Yeah there was no issue playing QQ in 2.1 now its a struggle to even 5 cycle which is bare minimum clearing time. You shouldn't have to vertically invest and use the apex tier supports just for old unit to do bare minimum clears.
There's no Cs in HSR, you tourist.
Yeah just add the old units to the standard banner like HI3
They should add the system where you can buy cores over a period of time to unlock eidolons on old characters like Seele who hasn’t had another rerun compared to Topaz or DHIL. Make the bottom 5 used 5 stars upgradable with in-game currency
In Honkai they add new weapons 'divine keys' that basically change the play style of the character like Herrscher of finality Kiana and Senti, brining them back to meta
i feel like crk did it best w magic candies and jam crystals
adds new stuff to their skills but requires more effort to build to counteract the strength
*THIS* 👏
ALSO YOU’RE A CKR PLAYER, I HAVE FOUND MY COMMUNITY 😊
if any hoyo game is to break the mould and have rank up quests, it's HSR
I think it would be cool if for new story that continues the storyline in old world also adds some sort of buffs to characters related to that world or story. This way it could show how the old characters in the backgrounds has continue getting stronger one way or another. Just an example, like how yanqing gotten stronger in the story it would have been nice for him to get some sort of buff as it works with the story we experienced. whether it through some sort of augment or whatever, i just find it would be nice, prop wont happen but food for thoughts.
I do enjoy getting the new things, but it's a honest waste how quickly units get powercrept, I'm no a Jinglu super fan, i was just interested and wanted to get her LC in the re run, but by then she was already not looking promising at all and I've always struggled to clear with her, Hertha is more reassuring because she can use Robin with synergy. As much i wanted to invest more in JL, including more eidolons, it was already feeling like a waste bcs she also never got a premium support that grants energy enough to smooth her rotation and so i didn't, I've been playing since day one, only have a few months i didn't play, i got a lot of old 5* that just feel as trash as 4* that never warranted use like Natasha or Arlan and in that list i hate to say it, but Seele, JL, Acheron, soon Sparkle are there. In a lesser extent Welt bcs i never expected him to carry me much anywhere besides DHIL's catered meta. the only LCs i didn't get of the characters j mentioned were JL and Acheron, so yes, mine are weaker than the baseline hoyo intends, but by the rerun, which is currently for Acheron, she already is not promising at all and I it's more reassuring to save for agalea, and it likely won't matter if i get the lc or not, it might be a shame bcs by her re run this will repeat itself but I'll be comfortable for a good time and that's the race we're being heavily suggested to part take in
They can also add in new signature light cones to buff old characters kinda like how Guardian tale did it.
@fl2ur mentioned HI3s old augment core system but a better example would be the thing they do now of introducing a new weapon (HSR equivalent is LC) and stigmata set (HSR equivalent is Relic set) that dramatically improves an old character.
There have been a bunch of these over the years that have been very impactful.
Not sure they'll do it in HSR tho 😢
We need a Blade rerun badly my wallet is so freaking fat I wanna whale up and oil up for Bladie let me have the chance to e6s5 plz hoyo anything for blade you can take everything from me 3.0 I BELIEVE BLADE BLADDEEEEE EBLADEEEE
Genshin doesn't really need a buff per se, seeing how apart from freeze teams and Anemo dps(not Chasca she's all element dps) which are struggling, characters from 1.x like Hu Tao, Zhongli, Keqing, Sucrose and the national trio are still useful to clear endgame content relatively quickly. Part of it is because the game is really easy and you can somewhat counter the lower damage with good skills (fast rotation, weird ass 4 star artifact build that are actually broken, mob grouping, etc). In HSR, I feel like you are much more dependent on the strength of your build and your characters and there aren't as much tech you can do to significantly shorten the clear cycle.
I tried using Seele on MoC floor 10, 35k on mobs and 60k on ulti. Game over ~
I know they wanna sell new chars but don't leave old units left to dust. They deserve love equally to new ones, they had carried us through hard MoCs, SU, Swarm, PF. At least make them usable.
@@Undead_Grius seele + sig
bronya + sig
gepard and natasha made my early game smooth sailing. Later I swapped geppie with fu xuan and nat with lynx, it was fun mono quantum team. Nothing trouble me so much except Luofu shielded soldier who summon reinforcements. Later i change my team as meta goes on like DoT, Jingliu hyper carry, Acheron, FF break. But I still wanna use Seele sometimes since she is my very first 5* in hsr.
10:12 this argument about comparing only hsr and fgo has poor structure. You need to look broader. Epic seven for example has specialty changes which upgrades 3 star characters to be closer to 5 stars. In addition, 5 stars arent left out either. They also get something called an exclusive equipment for select 5 stars. Which gives them a substat boost on top of a small upgrade to one of their abilities. And they have skins. And pity is 120.
i love how he sometimes pauses the video just to talk about the gameplay on background
I think MHY considers Eidolons + New Artifacts/Relics etc. sets as the "buffs" for the character since its upfront and less controversial than changing stats. Eidolons especially are kind of them getting you to pull the character again iliterally, so who needs to buff them when you might get E1/E2 on a rerun, etc."
They should explicitly make E1/E2 and sig LCs more tuned around keeping the characters relevant through shifting metas rather than being parts of their kit that improve functionality in ways that fix their arbitrary problems they play with (too little energy, turn durations, etc.)
All this while dokkan buffs old units and then buffs them a second time when they age.
9 yo teq Beerus smoking 90% of 2024 units btw.
Once an Acheron main always an Acheron main
Idgaf about any new unit unless i fw them to an extent if not ez skip regardless of meta
a nice thing will be adding old units to standard and give some free copies of them .
They just need to release better supports that tailor towards the older units, for example if Blade gets an hp buffer/drainer or JL getting a jiaoqiu that buffs dmg% and skill dmg
what if moc just let us chose the buffs we want so instead of hyper buffing the shiny new unit we can pick the moc buff that came out when seele or jingliu came out to use it for them instead
that's actually a genius way of keeping old units relevant, sadly it will never happen
One way to buff old unit is with the way how HI3 did. HI3 made a new system to upgrade a 5* weapon to 6* weapon with all of it kits to support or buffing the desired character to the point when it first introduced the worst character can compete with the strongest character by just having the 6* weapon on them. In HSR they can probably made a new system similar to this but except on LC it implement on the character. Or another way is probably pulling like a new path for the old character. It will be the same cases as HMC and march 7th. Best way is to entirely rework every old character kit like increase their multiplier but probably won't happen.
Even so, 95% of old hi3 units deal like 20% of the damage of new ones 💀
@@tdof7217 game is very old. Also, suits before Nymph just have very shitty kitmoves - which results in DPS losses. HoHe is surprisingly decent on Starless Hephaestus, for example, and she is 6.0 character in 7.8 patch.
@tdof7217 cause the stopped doing it💀
The latter one of your suggestions about creating new paths isn't going to work, because why not makes a new one
X.4 and X.5 tend to be non-new planet driven stories so they cah use those as lore/buff patches for older units. Like Yanqing has been getting hyped for a new power-up for ages now (1.4, 2.4, 2.5) GIVE HIM BUFFS MIHOYO AND NOT JUST HIM
TBH I don't think the idea of "It wouldn't make sense lore-wise" is a good argument against buffing older units because even now, older units that ARE stronger in-lore are not stronger in practice.
Like Jingliu is canonically powerful AF but she's outpaced Clara and Yunli.
It would also mean Luocha would be like the best heal sustain in the entire game but instead he's outpaced for Huohuo, Fu Xuan, Gallagher, and Lingsha, and none of those characters have the remnant of an aeon on hand like he does.
Jing Yuan is getting outpaced by Himeko and he has the legitimate blessing of Lan.
The balance of this game doesn't even currently abide by it's own damn canon I think it's only fair to see older units get brought up because Seele should be able to keep up with Dr Ratio from a consumer standpoint, and that's all that should matter in the case of the argument for/against buffing older units.
@@brytonwhitforddeazevedo1013 but that could be used to make a counter argument that unit like Yan Qing should definitely be buffed to represent his growth
@@i_dont_have_a_youtube_chan8584 He should just be buffed, period. It's clear they made his kit before they even worked out hoe encounter design would work, that's what lead to him being so useless. His kit is literally antithetical to encounter design in this game.
But he should just be buffed /because/ he's bad, not because he's canonically meant to be stronger.
Very unsure as to why Hoyo is so averse to post-release balance seeing as HSR is the only gacha I've ever played with this issue.
@@brytonwhitforddeazevedo1013 they are more likely to release a new version of him than buff him the way this game is
@@i_dont_have_a_youtube_chan8584 Yeah which is awful esp because you know it's going to be tied to his progression as a character in the story. It's why IO'm still mad about Dan Heng IL being a limited 5 star instead of just being given to players seeing as that was the peak of Dan Heng's character ark on the Luofu.
Girls Frontline solved this in 2016 where your starting 4 star characters got 5 star upgrades for free, and they were actually competitive, too. M4A1 remodeled was one of the best DPS units in the game when I stopped playing in 2021 and that was 4 years after she got her remodel.
It's not like HSR is ever lacking for fan fave characters they COULD make bank off of that make sense to be a limited 5 star, like Feixiao, Robin, Aventurine, etc. Hoyo is just ridiculously greedy even by gacha standards and if the games weren't as polished as they are then their games would be considered to be cash grab gachas on par with the likes of Love Live School Idol Festival.
Lore is the most stupid argument ever. If lore actually mattered for combat then hoolay would've had ice weakness, but noo it has wind for feixiao physical for yunli and fire for goddamn firefly because those are the 3 characters ur meant to play
Havent heard of dragalia lost in so long
Hoyo doesn't make it super clear that power creep occurs. They know most casuals don't care about those concerns. They have zero interest to buff older units. If you want to look at a company who knows how to mitigate power creep and buff old units to make them still usable (while not as good as the best, still, usable) check out PGR leap system! Kuro~
Honestly I feel like supports are ruining Honkai Star rail. Characters like Robin and Ruan Mei are so incredibly plain and boring(Design, personality and animation wise) that absolutely nobody would pull for them.... So hoyo makes them so incredibly broken that they're bis for half the teams in the game, and then when people who pulled them clear moc easily, they inflate the hp pool by 400% so the ONLY way to 3 star is by pulling them. I wanna pull cool dps like Firefly or Feixiao or Boothill, not some boring singer or scientist, but those units lose half their damage by not having them and there's no alternative. I can replace Feixiao with Ratio or Firefly with break Himeko. I can't replace Robin or Ruan Mei. Thankfully Sunday is a step in the right direction because he's actually interesting. Hopefully they continue the trend.
Between Ruan Mei and Robin they are BIS in 100% of teams pretty much. Yeah there may not be a "must pull" character but they are as close as you are going to get to having one.
Tbh even Sunday is kinda boring as well they combined Bronya and Tingyun kit to work for summons. He is already the best support for hypercarry teams powercreeping every previous hypercarry support while also working in summon teams. I'd say thats another step in the wrong direction if new support character can be dominant in their niche and dominate in the previous supports niche as well.
Finally some w take. What the another most annoying thing about top tier harmony characters - is other players gonna sh t at you if you skipped them. Like, why I'm getting insulted just skipping character which i hate
I don't have both RM and Robin, still 3★ all endgame contents comfortably (F2P btw).
Sunday is literally Bronya 3.0 with a bit of Tingyun sprinkled in. And he's a whiny communist bitch who wanted to enslave the galaxy - no thanks.
Bro really said Ruan Mei is a boring character but Firefly is cool
I CAN'T
5:40 I disagree, skins take away the focus from the main spending, which is getting the actual character, and also, it would mean having to make skins for all the characters, which will take away time from actually making new content, and introducing new characters.
Imagine if you take 100 days to make a character work properly without breaking the game, if you have a 100 characters and introduce just 1 skin for each character, that just means 100 times more work hours to make sure the game doesn't break and the skins don't look weird when in gameplay and battle.
And Most people won't get the skins, they would rather just get the character.... so why even bother?
In other gacha games where skins are the main product, it would make sense, but in Genshin/hsr skins are NOT the main product. In Hi3 however, skins ARE the main product.
11:45 Genshin already does that with imaginarium
Make endgame modes give buffs to certain characters every rotation like this patch gives blade 200% more dmg and the next rotation make sw implant aoe or smth , I'd be funny
Increased mob hp must always be equal to increased damage multiplier
About the FGO buff system. FGO operates in a whole diff level of complexity than any Hoyoverse game. For start Most of the times the raw damage of units is well...not enough to take bosses (like real bosses not tue guys for the first half of the story). There are boss killing units that are versio 1.0 of the game? Yes. They still need lv10 skill (i will go back to this later) and atleast max level NP (which means Max level dupes) or Max level Affinity (Herc) to worth with 100% efficiency.
What Fl2ur dont mention to the community that dont know FGO is that Skills and farmig in general in FGO is not efficient outside events which means skill leveling for new players is...not happening (and they implemented A LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of help for new players in the form of a currency that can be exchange for ANY upgrade item you need) so you can max level max skill level atleast 6 core units. But after you use everything? the next time you will use a NEW unit is when an event comes up and you farm it all. Which by the way takes a LOT of time and a LOT of energy currency.
This is important because this is a game with REALLY hard boss battles and a Rock Papper Scissor system that really punish you for not bringing the right DpS to the right fight. Its a really hard game (with very broken supports but that is besides the point) tht ask the players a lot of grinding a lot of reading and a lot of time invesment. That is WHY FGO has a buff system because there are units that actually 100% CANT CLEAR CONTENT even with brute force or are so inneficient that take 4 times the time that they need for a fight that they should be clearing.
The level of gameplay powercreep (not Unit vs Unit comparation but Unit vs Content) is HUGE. Compare it with HSR and is just funny. Specially for how little currency you get for the pull ratios of the game that are also VERY BAD.
13:41 AYYYOOOOO DRAGALIA LOST MENTIONED, W GAME
They'll just keep adding relic sets to buffs old units, but not enough to outshine the new banner toys.
If Hoyo reruns them players pulling for those characters are only shooting themselves in leg since they are kinda behind compared to new characters. Maybe they should be added into stelar wrap after some time.
Hsr gets more pulls but has more powercreep compared to games like genshin where 1.0 characters are still useful 4 years later
To be fair, while star rail is younger, characters like bronya and himeko still sees play and perform well, and those are standard characters since the games release. Pokke also showed off seele still performing well too, with help from an invested sparkle.
Yes i see 1.0 gensh1t characters like klee keeping up with neuvillete. In hsr supports like suday will bring back jy to the level of acheron, nothing in gensh1t is bringing klee to the level of neuvillete. Let's not talk about the state of venti and albedo.
@@AkashSingh-d5hbut Klee can still clear the abyss at c0. Also there are quite a few dps in Genshin that aren’t Neuvillette level that can 36* the abyss
@@AkashSingh-d5h Lmao... Comparing the powercreep in HSR to Genshin is a joke... Any c0 5 star from 1.0 even with f2p build can 36* abyss... National team variant from 1.0 (with childe for example) is still one of the strongest team... Heck even the 4 stars team like electro charged Sucrose with XQ, Beidou, FIschl is still really strong... What 1.0 team in HSR can keep up with the current meta??? Literaly none.
@@numerowan69 coz every "content" in genshit made for braindead monkeys like u. Idk where are the positives here
So many other gacha's at the very least go back and buff some base stats on old characters or numbers within their kit to help keep up with the latest and greatest. They still won't be as good as the new toys, but they can at least function and perform without it feeling miserable.
i feel like there should be a gimick like the reactions in genshin because it allows support to do dmg and for older units to still do super well
You just described superbreak
I don't really mind switching up my roster every so often. It gets a bit boring to hyper focus on one team/DPS for years at a time tbh. But for the love of god Hoyo, when introducing a new generation of meta characters don't make them into recycled slop like Sunday. We literally have two units that work *exactly* like him ffs. At least the Robin experience was completely fresh when she came out. Ruan Mei too, even if her actual inputs are pretty brain dead the effect she has on the team was novel. Action advance for characters *and* summons just feels so lazy.
Advancing summons is actually revolutionary, just look at all the Jing Yuan and even Lingsha showcases with Sunday, it's just that there aren't a lot of characters with summons right now
@@sutkonos agree to disagree but yes he does make Jing Yuan into a powerhouse so of course Jing mains are going to love him to death.
In hi3 they do divine keys for old herrschers which changes some mechanics and buffs damage
@Merlin-x1c old units have trash eidolon
Mrpokke says : " you NEED new supports"
But what if for me new supports/characters are mess? Not for damage increase, but for a character itself?
I still must pull a character that i don't want to and use it with almost all my teams for a year?
Don't want to hurt someone feelings, but for me it's the situation when you need to eat shit to be healthy.
If this is it I've better be bricked.
It is what it is then. If you love seele, get sparkle so she can take off. If you love firefly, get Ruan Mei so she can take off. If you love feixiao, get Robin so she can take off. Etc. Almost all characters are just pieces to a puzzle for optimal results.
If you don't want to get there ideal partners, ok. It's your game, your life. But don't complain the games too hard when you refuse to get the basic foundation for your team. If I don't use hmc, my firefly is awful. It is what it is. 🤷
@@GodofGoblinsnah if you love seele get Sunday using sparkle on seele feels worthless with Sunday being better with seele even if Sunday is supposedly for summon
@HeyItsme-c8x you can use either one, including bronya. Sunday gives energy which is nice, sparkle helps with sp, bronya...I guess cleanses? My point is pick up and invest in any premium support if someone wants there old dps to shine. If Sunday is best for seele, cool. Pull him.
@@GodofGoblins Sunday is more SP positive than Sparkle.
@@Mr.Heller With his lightcone yeah? Without it people say he is neutral at best. But his lightcone transforms him into positive.
Pretty off topic I know but i've been curious about this for awhile now for when she makes a return, does E1 or E2 change anything for Firefly in Pure fiction?
Or does she stay a T1 unit in there?
E2 goes crazy and E1 is just really nice to have
@cynuik Would you say that E2 is a big enough boost to kick her up a tier or two in pure fiction?
Or is it better to get a first copy of Lingsha over E6 Gallagher to make Firefly's team do better in pure fiction?
If you want firefly to work in PF just pull Lingsha, she is literally an erudition in disguise
my E1S1 sparkle went deadinside with sunday arrival)
I decided to skip Sunday because of my e1s1 Sparkle. I don't wanna see how character dies after powecreep in my account.
@@sunnyhelloguy you can still use her, it's not like she will instantly "die"
Apparently they do have systems in Honkai Impact 3rd to bring back older characters to the meta
Power creep is becoming more rampant in newer Hoyogames like ZZZ and HSR and has been a problem in Genshin since Neuvillette.
This isnt powercreep neuvillete is just way to strong and the other unit still clears easily
@@fukanoonwish999yeah. Powercreep is HP inflation and enemy's damage increase. People really want to their character to be the strongest.
More like Genshin is the anomaly among gacha space rather than ZZZ and HSR. Gacha games have power creep, it is inevitable. I think it was a miracle Genshin has been stable in the powercreep for this long.
Genshin is the one that doesn’t really suffer from power creep really at all… old units still clear fine. It’s the reason it’s the most casual friendly, because the balancing was actually handled well enough to not be super annoying and it has a good base system with the elemental reaction system. I don’t play Genshin but it’s still not a problem from what I’ve seen from people.
Powercreep in HSR is done to make the best characters harder to clear with by increasing hp, the powercreep you’re talking about with Genshin is that they released a disgusting dps but they don’t balance the game around Nuev like they base the hp of enemies based on Feixiao’s and Firefly’s damage in HSR.
Genshin straight up doesn’t really care about difficulty really and when they do they have more freedom with actual enemy design, that’s why so many people were saying “WuWa is so much more difficult” when it released, this makes it so much more comfortable even if people hate the game… because it’s a gacha that doesn’t really powercreep at all
With genshin not really. Old characters like hu tao are still absurdly strong compared to the content there is.
Newer characters are stronger for sure on average but that doesnt really matter if abyss isnt balanced around that which it isnt.
HSR on the other hand shills new units way harder and older units are actually struggling unless they recieve new modern supports to overcome their weaknesses
I pulled e1 robin and now im already regretting it. So yeah, it really depends on your account
People don't realize that hsr is doing the augment thing in hsr. Take march7th hunt for example. So chill out maybe other characters will be implemented too.
How can Acheron be buffed is very simple, 1 sustain or preservation (shielding) Nihility like Lingsha done.
Jingliu is more tricky... but also doable if one sustain/preservation is made to implant ICE weakness, that would put her back on the track.
Isn't so hard to buff both of those characters. but guess what they ain't doing it. cause they need to sell new characters.
I am ok with the powercreep because it’s a single player game, it would only be absurd if it’s a pvp game.
I think the closest thing that Hoyoverse would do to directly buff a character is to release a new better Lightcone or new relics.