For a person doing such a good damage calculation you surely fucked up understanding the whole "needed for hull tanks part". If YOU ARE a hull tank you NEED WEAPON INTEGRITY. Otherwise, when your weapon stops working its damage is now zero, Weapon that deals zero damage is more of a dps hit than having the sturdy mod instead of OC mod (which is alongside the Short Range is the best damage mod) That's the point in the "required for hull tanks". Not that it hits hull tanks harder. Serious eyeroll.
Oh, does Flintlock believe that people are foolishly flying around with tons of hull but no shield for prolonged periods of time? If that's the interpretation the line in their video is at least more fair but it's also assuming people are playing under a stupid set of circumstances. Via your own comment you admit that these "Hull tanks" are being forced to take a mod that makes them do less damage than shielded builds. Just slap on a shield so you can do more damage AND live longer next time.
@@im-the-zam Yes, people still fly full hulltanks - your video was about efficiency of the mod, not about cookie cutter meta spec, right? So, is excluding a condition in the experiment the right thing to do because you feel that it is "foolish"? That's not a scientific method. The advice given is valid if you decide to go for a niche build that is a very off-meta full hull tank. Almost no one is playing those now outside of some meme/troll builds or maybe a stealth torp boat for wing-fight but the advice is 100% correct if they do. Also, this is why the hull tanks are dead in the current meta because shield>all. It wasn't the case back before the engineers and some people still enjoy flying those even when they are ridiculously underperforming. They have a huge advantage in one area as silent running done right breaks missile lock and can render any gimballed build void if timed right with chaff. It is also great at preventing long range railing BUT they take amazing skill to be even considered valid and even then an idiot with a meta build will have bigger chance. The game power creep just outgrew pure hulltanks (plus hard-counter missiles/hounds, emmisive mods etc. while there is zero counters for shield builds as phasing sequence does not carry over enough damage to matter most of the time, not in serious pvp at least.) I wasn't saying that those builds are better now or that they are valid. I've said you misread the info. No need to sell me on the shield. That said your knowledge of hulltank/silent pvp is limited it seems. Don't jump to conclusions if you don't know something. Just ask. No need to be condescending.
I said the advice was correct (or at least fair) if the user is one playing the foolhardy build, I also said that the build is inferior to comparable shielded builds. Whether or not this was true in the past is irrelevant because the video in question is about engineering, which means talking about a time before engineering is like asking me why I'm criticizing you for bringing a bayonette against my F-15. They do not prevent long range railing because railguns are hitscan and hitscan weapons hit instaneously. Ships are also physical objects so being unable to see one on scanner doesn't prevent you from hitting it as long as it's in render distance. I'm quite aware of the Hull tank / silent PvP (I have to deal with SK1701's stealth builds after all which btw don't use sturdy MCs). What I'm pointing out and what you admit is that hull tank and silent builds are just outperformed by shielded builds. So running a niche build which at best may perform ON PAR but never exceed that of a shielded build is just silly. ESPECIALLY SO if it pigeonholes you into doing less damage. All of this aside, you're ignoring the fundamental point of the video in that Sturdy mods do not outperform OC and SRB, and I have proven it mathematically.
@@im-the-zam "I said the advice was correct" After my reply that explained your reading comprehension is lacking, yes. I'm commenting on the video, not your post addendum. "Whether or not this was true in the past" People are still using full hulltanks today so this is still relevant. "I'm quite aware of the Hull tank / silent PvP (I have to deal with SK1701's stealth builds after all which btw don't use sturdy MCs)" Didn't you just countered your own argument that they are obsolete? "They do not prevent long range railing because railguns are hitscan and hitscan weapons hit instaneously." You don't even know what I'm talking about. Silent running breaks the lock and makes you untargettable, which makes railing anyone at 3+ km a VERY hard task (and nullifies the benefit of LR), not to mention you don't get to aim at fsd/PP. To a top PvPer that does not make a massive difference but it screws over middle of the pack pilots with ease. "All of this aside, you're ignoring the fundamental point of the video in that Sturdy mods do not outperform OC and SRB" I'm not talking about that part at all, not sure why you are bringing this up. Proving that the water is wet is not exactly an achievement either. Sturdy was NEVER considered a dps choice, no not sure what you are even trying to prove.
>Personal Attacks Let's accept that I misinterpreted Flintlock's statement. I was trying to be generous, and assume that Flintlock knew his audience wasn't dumb enough to run shieldless. None of that matters because I only used the video as a launching point to do my own DPS analysis. >Hull Tanks / Stealth Hull tanks are not relevant, they're a niche build that will always be outperformed by shielded builds. By using one, you are bringing a Primeape to RBY OU. Yes, SK1701 runs a stealth build but he does it to meme because as most people know, Elite Dangerous gets stale very very quickly (mile wide - inch deep). No serious contender who is playing to win at all costs is running hull tanks / stealth builds because they're outperformed by shielded builds. >LR Railing I literally do know you're talking about sig drop. I'm telling you just because you're sig dropped doesn't mean rails can't hit you. You can test this in game if you want. It doesn't matter "if it works on lower skill players", your statement of sig drop preventing LR Railing is a statement of fact that was incorrect. >Sturdy was never a DPS Choice I didn't choose that thumbnail by accident. Sturdy actually is fine, it's just not better than OC or SRB.
For a person doing such a good damage calculation you surely fucked up understanding the whole "needed for hull tanks part". If YOU ARE a hull tank you NEED WEAPON INTEGRITY. Otherwise, when your weapon stops working its damage is now zero, Weapon that deals zero damage is more of a dps hit than having the sturdy mod instead of OC mod (which is alongside the Short Range is the best damage mod)
That's the point in the "required for hull tanks". Not that it hits hull tanks harder.
Serious eyeroll.
Oh, does Flintlock believe that people are foolishly flying around with tons of hull but no shield for prolonged periods of time? If that's the interpretation the line in their video is at least more fair but it's also assuming people are playing under a stupid set of circumstances. Via your own comment you admit that these "Hull tanks" are being forced to take a mod that makes them do less damage than shielded builds.
Just slap on a shield so you can do more damage AND live longer next time.
@@im-the-zam Yes, people still fly full hulltanks - your video was about efficiency of the mod, not about cookie cutter meta spec, right? So, is excluding a condition in the experiment the right thing to do because you feel that it is "foolish"? That's not a scientific method. The advice given is valid if you decide to go for a niche build that is a very off-meta full hull tank. Almost no one is playing those now outside of some meme/troll builds or maybe a stealth torp boat for wing-fight but the advice is 100% correct if they do.
Also, this is why the hull tanks are dead in the current meta because shield>all. It wasn't the case back before the engineers and some people still enjoy flying those even when they are ridiculously underperforming. They have a huge advantage in one area as silent running done right breaks missile lock and can render any gimballed build void if timed right with chaff. It is also great at preventing long range railing BUT they take amazing skill to be even considered valid and even then an idiot with a meta build will have bigger chance. The game power creep just outgrew pure hulltanks (plus hard-counter missiles/hounds, emmisive mods etc. while there is zero counters for shield builds as phasing sequence does not carry over enough damage to matter most of the time, not in serious pvp at least.)
I wasn't saying that those builds are better now or that they are valid. I've said you misread the info. No need to sell me on the shield.
That said your knowledge of hulltank/silent pvp is limited it seems. Don't jump to conclusions if you don't know something. Just ask. No need to be condescending.
I said the advice was correct (or at least fair) if the user is one playing the foolhardy build, I also said that the build is inferior to comparable shielded builds.
Whether or not this was true in the past is irrelevant because the video in question is about engineering, which means talking about a time before engineering is like asking me why I'm criticizing you for bringing a bayonette against my F-15.
They do not prevent long range railing because railguns are hitscan and hitscan weapons hit instaneously. Ships are also physical objects so being unable to see one on scanner doesn't prevent you from hitting it as long as it's in render distance.
I'm quite aware of the Hull tank / silent PvP (I have to deal with SK1701's stealth builds after all which btw don't use sturdy MCs). What I'm pointing out and what you admit is that hull tank and silent builds are just outperformed by shielded builds. So running a niche build which at best may perform ON PAR but never exceed that of a shielded build is just silly. ESPECIALLY SO if it pigeonholes you into doing less damage.
All of this aside, you're ignoring the fundamental point of the video in that Sturdy mods do not outperform OC and SRB, and I have proven it mathematically.
@@im-the-zam
"I said the advice was correct"
After my reply that explained your reading comprehension is lacking, yes. I'm commenting on the video, not your post addendum.
"Whether or not this was true in the past"
People are still using full hulltanks today so this is still relevant.
"I'm quite aware of the Hull tank / silent PvP (I have to deal with SK1701's stealth builds after all which btw don't use sturdy MCs)"
Didn't you just countered your own argument that they are obsolete?
"They do not prevent long range railing because railguns are hitscan and hitscan weapons hit instaneously."
You don't even know what I'm talking about. Silent running breaks the lock and makes you untargettable, which makes railing anyone at 3+ km a VERY hard task (and nullifies the benefit of LR), not to mention you don't get to aim at fsd/PP. To a top PvPer that does not make a massive difference but it screws over middle of the pack pilots with ease.
"All of this aside, you're ignoring the fundamental point of the video in that Sturdy mods do not outperform OC and SRB"
I'm not talking about that part at all, not sure why you are bringing this up. Proving that the water is wet is not exactly an achievement either. Sturdy was NEVER considered a dps choice, no not sure what you are even trying to prove.
>Personal Attacks
Let's accept that I misinterpreted Flintlock's statement. I was trying to be generous, and assume that Flintlock knew his audience wasn't dumb enough to run shieldless. None of that matters because I only used the video as a launching point to do my own DPS analysis.
>Hull Tanks / Stealth
Hull tanks are not relevant, they're a niche build that will always be outperformed by shielded builds. By using one, you are bringing a Primeape to RBY OU. Yes, SK1701 runs a stealth build but he does it to meme because as most people know, Elite Dangerous gets stale very very quickly (mile wide - inch deep). No serious contender who is playing to win at all costs is running hull tanks / stealth builds because they're outperformed by shielded builds.
>LR Railing
I literally do know you're talking about sig drop. I'm telling you just because you're sig dropped doesn't mean rails can't hit you. You can test this in game if you want. It doesn't matter "if it works on lower skill players", your statement of sig drop preventing LR Railing is a statement of fact that was incorrect.
>Sturdy was never a DPS Choice
I didn't choose that thumbnail by accident. Sturdy actually is fine, it's just not better than OC or SRB.