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Thanks for saying you didn't watch the video because I actually describe the cases in which biweaves are useful. Your anecdote just tells me you and your pvp partner suck at combat.

​@@im-the-zam first off, pretty sure my pvp track record would beg to differ, considering I went after the so called best pilots at the time, I made a build to counter the Fer de Lance plasma meta, one that everyone told me wouldn't work, and I NEVER lost a duel. Infact crimsongamer99 came across the same build 3 or 4 years later and it started picking up traction. You are a little late with this video explaining why bi weave shields "suck." Yes I know this was posted 3 years ago, should've posted it 8 years ago

You're saying that in your pvp vulture you and your friend are either unable to hit each other or are spending minutes out of combat. If either are true, you and your friend are bad. Without engineering on the PAs, you're still doing enough damage to require 30ish seconds out of combat for 1 hit by 1 PA (on just the absolute damage alone). You are overboosting in your jousts if you are spending that much time out of combat. You have a skill issue. And if you are not hitting your target, you are also skill issue.

@im-the-zam I didn't tell you what build I was using, nor what ship, or how exactly I fly to avoid getting hit, if you can't figure that kind of stuff out on your own, you need help. It sounds like you assume things way too much.

You told me you and your friend were jousting in your pvp vultures and you said you were tricking the lead indicator to make your friend miss with his PAs. Ignoring the fact that the "tricking the lead indicator" thing is pretty easy to hit through (your friend is definitely bad) I know you are using a bi-weave shield. And since I know how much absolute damage PAs do it's a fairly simply calculation. Even if you're running fast-charge, the regen rate for 5C bi-weaves is only 2.5. Unengineered PAs do a little more than 50 absolute damage. Factoring in the out of combat delay, it'll take you 22 seconds to regen after getting hit by one. 42 seconds to regen after getting hit by two. If you and your friend are spending minutes out of combat and / or are unable to hit each other to the point where you have to call a draw, you and your friend are just bad.

It really wouldn't be a fair or better comparison. RF has a half-angle jitter of 0.5 degree. Neither SRB nor OC have jitter so the two mods really aren't suited for direct numerical comparison. In addition, the point with the sacrificing of fall-off damage is that it doesn't matter because you're not really hitting those shots anyway and when you introduce a half-angle jitter of 0.5 degrees that makes those numbers even worse.

Unfortunately it has recently become outdated but I'm glad you got the information you were looking for, CMDR.

@richardfrederick6009 it's actually perfect for me, I play on PS4. This info is still accurate for legacy CMDRs like myself.

In short: There are very few reasons to run a biweave shield on your combat ship. Especially if you have utility slots for shield boosters.

Different strokes. I am aware of "mining wings" and I recommend something to that effect in my engineering unlock guide for PvE combat. But in my view it's not so much "cooperative" and more of "doing the same thing in the vicinity of someone else".

I do mention the Orthrus once but the problem with it in regards to this video is that it doesn't fight back so it's a pretty AFK "fight".

I'm afraid I've not kept up with the Speedrun since I stopped running it to run touhou Luna nights. I recommend checking out the discord and asking around there.

@@im-the-zam ooh great game too!, ill check it out

There are a lot of factors that go into expansion that probably would require its own video (which I believe characters like Down to Earth Astronomy has already done) but the short version is you want to boost its influence excessively. This can be done by selling exploration data to systems they control and doing many kinds of legal missions for them. There is a daily influence cap per CMDR though, so boosting factions to expand is something that really needs to be done as part of a coordinated effort.

You've left out some information I need to consider but I'll try to keep it simple and cover the bases. I'm going to pull numbers from gimballed weapons since I assume that's what everyone uses but the principle in general should hold true. In general, no. It would provide more cooling. But what did you give up in that second TV slot to put it there? How much damage did you give up? Do you really have the capacitors to run your TVs? Are you overcooling? Your ship has natural heat dissipation which scales up to and maxes out at 66%. If you can fire one TV and keep your ship at 50% there really isn't much of a reason to add a second. If you're trying to consider 2 medium TVs vs 1 Large or Huge TV, just remember that the heat dissipation scales with thermal load. If you open up EDSY.org you can see the actual values for modules. I usually run G3 Long range on my TVs, so my huge TVs have 10.62 Thermal Load, Larges 7.61, and mediums 5.32. Would two mediums give me more cooling than one large? Sure. But depending on ship loadout you might not need the cooling or you might want the damage provided by an additional gun. Quick example. I'm in my FDL. It has 1U4M hardpoints. I've locked in 2 Railguns. I'm now going to decide whether I should use 2 TVs and a multicannon or a 1 TV and 2 multicannons. 1 Huge TV - 138.5 DPS - 3.3s in the red on near empty. This is a manageable heat 2 Medium - 134.5 DPS - 2.7 in the red on near empty. This is also a manageable heat (and marginally better like I noted in my above numbers) So you give up some 2% dps for (what I would consider) to be a negligible cooling differential. In general, I don't recommend stacking your "utility" weapons, just get more damage.

@@im-the-zam thank you.

It's really up to you. I'd have to see the build before making a full assessment. If you send me a edsy.org link I'll take a look. But I can make some general comments. Generally smaller ships can get away with using bi-weaves since the superiority of other shields really only manifests once engineering and Shield Boosters get involved. Since I know how much of a pain engineering is and I don't know your situation, I'd say just chill on that Bi-Weaves and just get a proper shield when you class up to a medium and engineer that.

@@im-the-zam I have a cobra 3 and a vulture non of them engineered. New to the game and have been doing alot of bounty hunting. I have bi weaves on both. Was wondering what I shld be running either a bi weave or A grade shields.

​@@Johnjohnson-zg4ek Again, the differences between Bi-Weaves and other shields really only become what I'd consider a real issue as the shields get larger and engineered. The point of this video is that the regen in Bi-Weaves shouldn't be the selling point. If you're just starting out with small ships, the Bi-Weaves are fine. And if you're running a vulture without engineering I'd say that's probably your best shot for a shielded build. Vultures without engineering tend to be strapped for power and the Bi-Weaves can be a nice means around that due to their lower power draw When you hit medium ships like the FDL that's when I'd say definitely swap over to the Class A Shields or get prismatics if you can. Especially if you have engineering by then. A lot of the arguable benefits of Bi-Weaves go away when engineering is considered.

Same

1. With regards to RnR, obviously. But the issue with that argument is if your shields on a Prismatic went down forcing an RnR, your shields on a Bi-Weave went down forcing an RnR a long time ago. Shield break in general is the point at which the fight has been decided. 2. Regen rates are tied to shield, not to ship. Talking about hull tanks in a shield discussion is off-topic imo. 3. Your bi-weave anecdote is whatever but doesn't negate the point that the regen value is low and not useful for in-combat states. 4. You're also talking about an activity which is ripe for PvP which means if you want to be prepared during undermining you should be using a Prismatic anyway I mentioned this in the video, you can like Bi-Weaves and that's fine. The regen value is just too low to justify using them on the basis of "I regen combat to combat" unless you're spending extensive periods of time between combat. Though I'd also wonder how you're undermining. For solo UMOP, the most efficient method is to aggro several wings at once. You can easily wind up fighting 5-6 wings at once and for that you do not want Bi-Weaves and if you did happen to be using Bi-Weaves at the time they would've broken.

@@im-the-zam sorry yes I meant to say some ships have fast rebuild rates and thus can rebuild their biweaves multiple times during a fight (1v1 - in a wing fight you take damage too fast when focused) and thus effectively get equal or higher shield value as a prismatic but without the power or weight drawbacks. I undermine solo in an anaconda and I'm super efficient in my biweave so I'd say I'm doing just fine

Rebuild time is based on broken regen rate and max shield. If you can regen your shield multiple times in a fight, it's a hallmark that your max shield value is super low. I've actually done the math on regen times and you have to be severely underclassing your shields to regen like that. Not to mention you get to enjoy taking all of that free module damage for no reason. You're probably not as efficient as you could be if you find yourself fighting 1v1 often. Again, the most efficient way to UMOP is to take on several wings at once.

@@im-the-zam I've beaten fdls and watched other similar builds win 1v1 vs an fdl. But anyway we'll never agree.

What do you mean you can beat FDLs 1v1.Mate, you can beat 1v1 FDLs all day and night when it's PvE. If you're talking about PvP then that FDL wasn't using a very good build because even some of the better Bi-Weave'd Anacondas lose shields within 20 volleys of a meta-de-lance with TC. I once calculated the DPS of the meta-de-lance and don't quote me on the numbers atm but iirc it was something like 360 DPS with of course about 200 of that being absolute. The Anaconda will crumple within minutes even with SCBs. Then we have the fragmamba which is a low IQ build that is really effective at making Bi-Weave shield tanks sad if you can get a stick on. Of course, your anecdotes really don't matter because you've already ceded the point that in-combat regen isn't a factor and I can mathematically prove that in-combat rebuild times are stupid slow in comparison to reboot and repair. I've also provided a tool in the spreadsheet which actually calculates the rebuild time for a given shield and it's really not a thing in a post-engineering E:D society. We don't have to agree, you haven't presented a case against the thesis of the video.

First of all, that's rebuild time. That's from 0% to 50% (unshielded). So you're gonna be taking damage the whole time in your slow anaconda. This is why I stressed that the fastest rebuild in general is going to be the reboot and repair. It's actually 5 minutes from 50% to 100% which is presumably what you're trying to "flex" with. But then we get to the problem of trying to flex in the first place. That build, frankly speaking, is garbage. Your mods are completely out of whack. You could get a lot more effective health if you just fixed those mods alone. You have 2700 absolute health which on a large ship is about half of what you can get. Large ships are also super easy to hit in the first place. Remember, your clock resets every time you take any damage. So you could regen for 10 seconds, get hit, gotta get out of combat (2 seconds without getting hit) to regen again. In your anaconda you're just a fat target. Not only that, but you're running what has to be one of the worst engine combinations of mods I've ever seen. I don't particularly recommend Bi-Weaves but if you were to put a blaster to my head and say "Put a Bi-Weave on something" the best options are going to be ships that don't get hit much in the first place. A viper would be a better candidate but I haven't built one in a while so I'm not sure on power constraints off the top of my head. Anyway, I decided to somewhat fix your build. I'm not going to touch the weapons even though your full MC build is pretty low IQ. First we fix the shield boosters. Obviously a lot depends on what you're fighting but I know you're not doing PvP with full gimballed and especially because anyone would torpedo your anaconda out of the sky with their vulture. General rule of thumb is half heavy duty / super cap, half resistance augmented / super cap. This alone more than doubles your absolute health and about doubles your kinetic and thermal health. Then we have to decide if we're going to all-in on this regen idea (which I disagree with) or not. Thermal resistance on the shield is fine, alternatively you could use reinforced but for PvE I generally use thermal resistance. Then the mod can be either fast regen or the more generally useful hi-cap. It's up to you but I will use hi-cap for my build here. This obviously presents us with a problem because now we're low on power but I noticed you dumped on a ton of guardian reinforcement packages. Guardian reinforcement packages are not worth it on large ships since they add a flat value to max shield. You know what pretty much does the same thing in the field but costs waaaaay less power? SCBs. An unengineered 5A SCB will add about 1000 raw shield to your ship. This one slot is now worth about as much shield as half of your GRPs at a fraction of the power. Plus if we instead use B instead of A class SCBs we actually get more shield overall. Might not be intuitive but it's the truth. So we swap out your A classes for B classes, strip the GRPs. (At 3 pips) I've now increased your Absolute shield by 3k (important against PAs / Ram damage) at the cost of some of your resistances (-8k Kinetic which generally doesn't matter on shields and -5k on thermals which matters but not as much as you might think). You get 30% of your power back. Thing is, 3 pip considerations are kinda eh, since you're probably going to have either 0-1 pips in systems (on the attack) or 4 pips in systems (on defense). We fix your thrusters to be dirty / drag and we're good to go. This also opens up the weapons options to let you actually run lasers on this build if you want to actually strip shields. Alternatively (though I've a video planned on why this is not really a good idea) you could run incendiary on some of your MCs to turn them into projectile lasers. I do not recommend this in general but it is an option if you're married to the full MC build. You can also add some useful things like limpet collectors, repair limpets, AFMU, Fuel scoop, etc to your conda because you're not hoarding all of the optionals anymore. Of course if you want to pick up that kinetic and thermal shield back you could again toss on another SCB because again, for large ships, SCBs are better than GRPs. Toss on one more 5B Specialized / Boss cells SCB and now my build has more health than yours in all categories with 10% power to spare. Naturally this is going to proportionally increase your rebuild time (Because rebuild time is Max Shield / 2 / rebuild regen, so if we increase Max Shield we're going to increase the broken regen time proportionally) but that's why we don't wait forever to rebuild we just reboot and repair to get 50% back right away. This works for all shields as long as you're not going fast. But now we start running into the issue of "Why make your bi-weaves into ghetto prismatics when you can just use prismatics?" Yours: edsy.org/s/v76B17y Mine: edsy.org/s/vsTPu7i Extra SCB: edsy.org/s/vazzBqi

@@im-the-zam ok i get it now

Glad you found it useful. Good luck out there CMDR o7

Glad you liked it! I want to make at least one more video on Turmoil specifically because I think a lot of people want to Fortify / Undermine carelessly and don't understand why we don't do that but idk when we're going to sit down and set up the sheets.