American Reacts to Group B - Pure Sound
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2021
- American Reacts to Group B - Pure Sound
I take a look at Group B rally racing.
Original Link: • Group B - Pure sound
#GroupB #Rally #AmericanReacts
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you will love to watch Walter Röhrl demolish Pikes Peak in an Audi S1 in 1987......you can see his footwork.....it's like a ballet :D
Today’s drift cars couldn’t get in a country mile of a WRC group B car on a rally stage. I actually saw the cars in the video racing on the UK Rally in the mid 1980s. Group B were banned after driver Henri Toivenen was killed iirc. In my opinion WRC drivers are the best drivers of all. There used to be an all-comers championship driving all sorts of race cars. Usually rally drivers ate the others alive.
The ability of drivers like Kimi and Kubica, amongst others, to compete in F1 and Rally is bloody impressive. Doing Indy, Bathurst or Le Mans is cool and looks good on the CV when negotiating a contract but the principles are much the same. Inertia drifting across a variety of surfaces, in an aerodynamic brick, is another level.
Today's drift cars traded the speed of drifting with holding ability and low speed agility. That's why you see such wide angle drifts at relatively low speeds, the direct opposite of Group B cars which focus on speed (clearly). Though, it makes it all the more impressive that they are able to hold the drifts so long at such high speeds.
you should see their feet! its a ballet with both feet dancing across all 3 pedals, including using all 3 pedals together and left foot braking whilst on the throttle lol
ruclips.net/video/wqREtbLe4sY/видео.html
@@garywordsworth9302 not seen that one. Damn thats impressive. Left foot braking with acceleration Control, rev matching, heel toe, that had it all going on
That particular beefy bumblebee in the Metro 6R4 (where you paused it at about 2:25) was developed into the one that powered the Jaaaaaaaag XJ220 supercar. Not just beefy, but b'dass 😁
Yeah, the mighty metro .
Really like EB channel.
3.0 ltr V6 sir?
@@andolas100 IIRC it was a 2.5L in the 6R4, but got silly power all the same!
My dream car, my first car was a rover metro 1.1s, loved it. I wish I had braught a gti or mg turbo years ago, they are silly money now.
Developed with input from Williams F1
I remember reading some recollections of one of these drivers. He said he hated this era because of how close the crowd was. Apparently men in the crowd thought it was cool to actually touch the car as it passed. You know that little gutter between the windshield and the door for rain? Well he finished one stage with 3 fingertips jammed that gutter. True story.
I remember hearing an interview with - I think - Michele Mouton, who said "You have to say to yourself, they are not people, they are trees, and of course, you don't want to hit the trees...."
that 30 year old Metro 6R4 will destroy most road cars today, an absolute beast
Unfortunately not. They only had 400bhp and were never the most powerful group B cars. A modern sports car would blow it out the water
And it's not 30 years old it's 36 years old
@@christopherflynn4094 i did say road cars and not sports cars
@@ukdnbmarsh sports cars are road cars? You said most road cars which isn't true.
@@christopherflynn4094 cars are much faster now, I remember back in them days I went in a few cars that I thought were fast and terrified me, e30 m3, rs turbos, cosworth, a young lad who goes in my pub took me out in his car the other day, an e90 335 tuned up cost him about 8 grand all together, it was a rocket ship wheel spin in 4th gear the whole time I was screaming at him to slow down.
These cars were pure monsters! Nothing but horse power and acceleration! That ‘Beefy Bumblebee’ is about the size of a Chevrolet Spark with a 3 litre V6 engine and 380 Horse power! Stripped to the bare bones to be as light as possible. The bigger cars were pushing 600 horse power! Hell, those drivers could make those cars dance!!
"One wrong turn and half those spectators are roadkill."
And that's exactly what happened in Portugal in 1986. Joaquim Santos stuffed his RS200 into a crowd, killing 3 and injuring 31. A couple months later Henri Toivonen and his codriver Sergio Cresto died when their Delta S4 went over a cliff in Corsica and fucking exploded. The Lancias, both the S4 and 037, were notoriously dangerous even by Gr. B standards when they were actually built to spec but the team captains did anything and everything to gain a speed advantage up to and including building the roll cage out of cardboard tubing. The third and final straw was another RS200 being driven by Marc Surer left the road, hit a tree, and exploded during a televised event, killing his codriver. The FISA officially banned Gr. B effective at the end of 1986. The last time any Gr. B car was driven in anger was at the Olympus Rally in Shelton, WA on December 7th, 1986.
Once upon a time, a driver stated:
Anyone can drive hard on a paved oval track, but driving a little over a car-wide gravel road over 120mph / h requires the right skill.
Also remember its the first time they have driven the route at speed. They haven't done countless practice laps and worked up to impressive drifts.
Its all in the moment. Stunning.
This really epitomizes living on the edge, both the drivers and the mad spectators
Group b was the pinnacle of 80's rallying,too fast to race due to the lack of crowd control and unfortunate spectator deaths.urban myths of peoples fingers in the cars bodywork when they tried to touch the cars as they went by.👌🇬🇧🔥🔥
I think the 80s motto was Caveat emptor
No urban story, actually happened and there's footage of it
Group B rallying was awesome. My mates and I used to go and watch it when it went through Wales, we stood close to the road but not like some of the idiots. The group B cars had no modification, or horsepower restrictions. The cars were practically rockets on wheels. Unfortunately it was banned in 1986 ish, due to deaths of drivers and spectators. It was a devastating time for all in the Rallying world.
You hit the "nail on the head," Sir!
Injured Spectators, was (the) specific demise, of "group B"...
every single driving lesson I had looked like this, no wonder my driving instructor used to cry during my lessons : ))
An Audi mechanic made a gruesome discovery during an event backin the 80s, inside a cooling duct on an quattro S1 evolution 2, was a severed finger 😳
"One wrong turn and those spectators are road kill" - Yeah that happened a few times :(
that's progress
Ahh the glory days! 😎
Magnificent men in their rally machines.
....and often flying machines if you were finish, the flying fins! 👏
Hyper power super cars with the facade of an every day hatchbak. 😂
Legends with balls of steel. 💪
Btw this is daytime, they did all terrains in all conditions including night time, check out inside car clips and you can see the real team work with the co driver and the workout the driver had.
YESSSSSS!!!! I think I suggested this to you one time in the last year EB. Awesome!!
Night-time racing in a snowy forest - magnificent.
When group b got cancelled and various projects got canned, the teams and drivers took the cars and reworked them for desert raids like the paris-dakar and America's greatest sunday drive, The Pikes Peak hillclimb. Here is Group b legend Ari Vatinen driving a Peugoet 406 T16 (Group B spec) up the mountain. ruclips.net/video/UEuZG37gFdM/видео.html
Really enjoyed this.Thanks Alan😊
Re the gear changes, back then most if not all rally cars had a H-pattern gear shifter and not the sequential stick they use today.
This really was the era of,
Win On Sunday, Sell On Monday racing.
The fans would travel internationally just to stand in some obscure forest, to see some maniac drive past sideways at ten million miles an hour.
This was before the internet, so if you wanted to see them, you had to travel.
That audi was a beast, 600-800bhp I think.
They don't do laps, it could be a 20 mile long rally from one point to another.
Another car on there was the metro 6r4
A 4 wheel drive 2.8 v8 turbocharged with a fibre glass shell over a spaceframe
The audi was 4x4 too .
Sorry to be "that" nerd but the 6R4 had a 3.0 V6 (the prototype was based on the Rover V8 with 2 cylinders chopped off) and wasn't turbocharged (turbos of the 80s were still a bit crude and the short wheelbase little metro would have been damn near undriveable with turbo lag, even for the group B driving gods)
@@Thenerdywalrus I knew I was close...I wasn't far off..I was just getting close to the mark. Either way it was an awesome car, I love watching it on rallycross too.
The world needs nerds like you dude to keep the facts alive
I'm promoting you from nerd to passionate enthusiast...🏅
When there’s a really good offer on beer at Tesco, lol
I've never seen this before.INCREDIBLE👍🏼
It’s not drifting, it’s power sliding.. drifting’s for show, to get the most angle. Power sliding is just the fastest way round a loose surface/really tight corner 👍🏻👍🏻
Exactly 👌🤝
This is the rallies I grew up watching with my dad, I think I had matchbox and corgi versions of all these cars.
The difference between these rally cars and today's is mind blowing
Not really. Today's WRC cars are now faster thanks to technology. In the 80s though group be was faster than f1.
@@christopherflynn4094 Jimmy Broadbent has shown fairly conclusively that it was nowhere near F1. That's not to take away from Grp B, I love that era, but F1 is the fastest thing you'll see on a closed circuit. As you pointed out though, modern WRC does have Group B beaten for speed nowadays, but it's got nothing on the pure insanity of that era.
@@andrewcharlton4053 Nobody is talking about pure overall performance or laptimes. Those engines were pretty much F1 engines put on rally cars, thinking that it was a good idea to use all that power on dirt/gravel etc with trees, cliffs and/or people on either side of narrow "roads"...that's what made those cars extremely dangerous and those drivers living legends (well, the ones that didn't die). Add to that the technology and safety measures of 40 years ago, with chassis pretty much made of cardboard to make the cars as light as possible...
@@christopherflynn4094 its same speed now like in the 80s 200km/h. i am rally driver and have 1988 toyota celica wrc gt4.
7'25:They didn't have a navigator at that time, they are two in the car, one driving and the co-pilot reading the notes.
Most of these cars are whats known in the UK as hot hatches which are small nimble cars with 1.6l-2.0l engines and are ideal for our tight country roads and streets, they are generally very light with great handling and lightning acceleration, what they dont have is a high top speed (Usually about 125), but when the speed limit is 70mph and anything above 90mph can be an instant ban they dont need it. These cars are designed for being thrown around, you dont need to be a pro driver to have a lot of fun in them.
The video is not doing the experiance justice. Yes i'm old. But back in the day. To have these cars flying by. Banging the exhaust. Was realy something special.
The short wheelbase Quattro was in a class of its own for a time.
Nah, whilst the lwb A1 & A2 were dominant, by the time the Sport Quattro came out the 205 T16 & Delta S4 had its measure. The Sport Quattro was introduced at the end of the 1984 World Championship and scored 1 win. In 1985, the SQ scored 1 win, the 205 T16 won 7. In 1986, the SQ had zero wins, the 205 6 wins & the Delta 4 wins
@@jinxvrs Agree on the Delta, but did the 205 really make such an impact?
@@Simon_PieMan Well as Peugeot drivers Timo Salonen & Juha Kankkunen were WC in 1985 & 1986 and Peugeot won the makes title in both years, I would say yes. The Delta S4 never won either the drivers or makes WC & the 205 outscored the S4 with 16 WRC overall rally wins to 5. Of course, with Group A starting in 1987, the Delta HF Turbo (and later the Intergrale) Lancia dominated for the next several years.
Rally stages are not ‘laps’, they go A to B on public roads, one at a time. Obviously the roads are closed to traffic.
I also recommend the British Touring Car Championship from the 80’s and 90’s. In the 80’s they had Sierra Cosworth RS500’s, and the 90’s was the Super Tourers where some works cars cost £1 million each. This type of racing is done on racetracks, and the standard of racing is as good as it gets.
Only if the track he sees them on is Bathurst
Also remember that this isnt laps, the cars race on stages which are public roads divided into parts and the driver doesnt get to practice on them and doesnt know where it goes. He has a codriver who yells to him what corners are coming, direction and gear to take them in - and the codriver has to be 2-3 corners ahead of where they are due to the speed if the car.
those are powerslides. drifting is initiated before the apex and his held for as long as possible, it's a style thing. powerslides are done to keep up momentum and pivot the car in the desired direction then lock traction all done at or after the apex.
You should check out how much power these tiny cars had. It was obscene just how overpowered they were for their size and weight, there will never be another era like Group B.
The one I remember most for that was the rally Metro. I always reckoned it was designed after a drunken conversation in the pub along the lines of:
"You know your Nan's 1.0 L metro?"
"Yeah?"
"Imagine if you stuck the most powerful engine that would fit in it?"
"Shit. She'd crap herself. You'd need to beef up the drive shaft, suspension, etc though. "
"Yeah. Especially when you add the turbo..."
"That would be hilarious. Imagine her burning off some posh Yuppie in his Ferrari at the lights!"
@@speleokeir Yup. Take a small economic car designed to go to the shops and back, and give it 400 horsepower.
@@headshot6959 more like 650 to 700 hp
@@Paul_C Not in the Group B era. Modern reproductions and tribute cars definitely but not during that era. It topped out at around 550 before it all ended.
@@headshot6959 think the last metro one was around 600, the last swb audi had close to 725.
I would of loved seen more of the snow tracks.
This is Rally 4 The Best Scenes of Rallying (Pure Sound) is worth a watch. It's mostly footage after the group B era and the spectators are still near the cars, a few end up getting a bruise or two when a driver over cooks it.
It's worth checking out the standard versions of the cars. The Renault 5 was sold as "Le Car" in the USA - to give an idea of how monstrous these things were compared to their road going versions. Though the built for purpose cars like the Ford RS200 and Stratos were the ones that caught my heart, the boyracer in me always loved how they'd take a docile shopping trolley and turn it into a utter monster.
The drifting done in rally is called the "skandinavian flick"
I think the Finnish drivers started doing it as it's part of their basic driving school to get their licence. But don't quote me on the last bit Im sure I saw that info somewhere but long long ago.
Also the TT used to be like that too. There's a few people famous for being on the track. One naked model too 😂
In the 1980s comedians Arthur Mullard and hylda Baker did a recording of the song You're the One That I Want and appeared on Top of the Pops it would make a short funny little reactions video
When I was younger we watched a banger race and a bloke got sent 30ft in the air hit the floor with his kid and died I was probably around 4-5 the only thing separating the crowd and the cars were those little orange plastics fence things
you need to check out `climb dance' - pikes peak so a bit closer to home for you , with epic driving and unbelievable risks....
Henri Toivenen died driving a Lancia. You should have a look at his life story and just how good he was. That car was a death trap but I still want a road going one of each of those Lancias please.
If some one wounder it was in a Lancia Delta S4
EB👍 beefy bumble bee🐝that cracked me up,cheers buddy ✌️🇬🇧✌️🇺🇸🍻
Have you watched "Climb-Dance" yet ?? Where Rally Driver Ari Vatanen drives the Peugeot 405T16 up Pikes Peak in 1990 ?? Got to be worth a reaction !!
You need to react to Rally Group B - Tribute video it is pure gold!
as mad as it may sound, the snow / ice rallies are actually the fastest!
Here in the northeast uk . It was ok to take a bus full of school kids to see it . It was amazing but thinking about it now I wouldn't let my kids go
3:38 Lovely move.
Wouldn't want to be where the gravel's going, though
the white 205 is legendary in Europe like your mustang! and the E2 S1 a legend in its own world wide!
group b was MENTAL! 500hp+++ on gravel in cars weighin 1 ton
Try 600 to 800 bhp depending on boost levels
@@christopherflynn4094 thats why i said ++. they unnoficially turned the boost up lol
Crazy, crazy people!
I remember rallying being a big deal in the 80s. Lancia Delta and all that. You never hear much about it now
When you re on dirt or gravel and you are used to it you know it’s gonna slide anyway it’s more predictible than on tarmac
Rallying is run in stages. All stages are timed and can vary in length from 5km 20km or more and different terrain. The fastest wins over the timed distance. Rally drivers need to have a navigator to guide them through the stages at high speed with cues like, "90 degree turn" or " 180 turn", all mentioned to the driver while driving at high speed. You could have any amount of stages between 3 to 8 stages or more on a day, depending which rally event or category it is. It's not judge on style like drifting. Drifting in rallying events is just a consequence of the terrian. Drifting was inspired from rallying they took only one aspect out of rallying and made it a sport in Japan then expoted the sport all around the world.
The Audi Quattro and the Scandinavian Flick...
The most powerful of these cars were the Audi s1e2 that produced right around 590 horsepower and the Lancia Delta S4 that was supercharged and turbocharged produced around 500 horsepower weighed about 1900 pounds and when they stress tested the engine at full output with the turbo turned all the way up It produced around a thousand horsepower from a 1.6 L 4 cylinder and in standard race configuration producing 500 it could Accelerate from 0 to 60 in 2.3 seconds on gravel
Just watch in car footage with pace notes on a rally Ireland does some great rally driving :)
Most Group B cars were 400 - 500 Bhp with a variety of four, five and six cylinder engines, none over 3.0 litres.
Some Group B cars made even higher powe figures, but usually in Rallycross not Group B (same cars tho).
I got so close I took a mirror to the arm and got a big bruise as a souvenir. Still miss Group B.
The spectators were mental ,there is footage of a mechanic removing a thumb from the bodywork because the spectators tried to get as close a possible to these 400bhp and more beasts from nearly 40 years ago.
that audi, the driver cant leave the throttle at any time, then breaking he use all 3 pedals at same time to keep the turbo push air, very scary fast cars
No rules just have to build 500 road going version to sell to the public. It's where the Audi Quattro 4x4 Peugeot 205 GTI came from :)
You should review the uk bus driver taking up a steep winding road in snow and ice
Ken Block recently signed for Audi. He was brought to Audi headquarters and Audi museum were the public dont get to go and was allowed to drive some 1 of cars. One of the group B winning cars was priced at 2.5million.
Well, if you're going to the TT we need to have a subscriber meet-up.
And there will be a lot of us.
And it will involve beer.
Sounds good to me
Hey man loving the recent content :) have you reacted to Mrs browns boys? If not wpild defo make a great video or stream topic
Check out the driving test in Finland!
they don't do laps. they do a bunch of stages. they tend to take ten to fifteen minutes to complete and they will do a number of those per day. they never see the same corner twice which is why they have to make a map which is their pace notes which they make themselves during practice. the codriver then has to read to the driver how fast he should be going and what is coming up the entire race. they make it into their own code that they can most efficiently understand as they're flying around the roads as fast as they can.
That be the angriest bumble bee in a can
Group B was cancelled because a bunch of spectators became roadkill, along with a driver and co-driver.
You should watch a rally crash compilation.
Some cars do roll down the big hills
To see it from the drivers' PoV check out 'The best rally onboard moments'.
Hi TEB - Don't know if you have yet or not, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on Ian Dury and the Blockheads (punk(ish) band from the UK 1970's-1980's). Well worth a listen. Tricky for a video though I guess due to a high probability of a CC.
The 70s, 80s were the glory years of rally driving, now you don't get crowds like they did back then, Health and safety and all that bollocks spoiled it all, plus all the deaths they caused as well.
It was the 2 last decades of pure raw motorsport.
@@vintageman91 It was, and it wish it was still like that now with no rules on cars performance or what you could or couldn't do. Now it's ok but not as nail-biting as it was back then.
Rally drivers are a bit mad, but the co-driver even more!
The golden age in many ways but very dark, with the death of Henri Toivonen and his co-driver Sergio Sergio Cresto being the last straw and Group B was killed off for good. There was a planned Group S, for even faster cars, that was scrapped and Group A, more production type cars with limited power were adopted.
The crowd controls, or lack of them were becoming more of a problem & it would have seen the end of Group B anyway, the crowds are more tightly controlled now , with designated spectator areas and no go area.
When you watch videos like that you realise it really was insane
I totally recommend the WRC games on the PS2, they are more simulation than arcade games. Each one is based on that years rally, so it's all real world tracks and cars from that year. Very fun games imo.
I've only tried one WRC game on a newer console which was the PS3, but it was very different from the PS2 ones, it felt like an arcade game that was trying to appeal to teenagers, nothing like and nowhere near as good as the PS2 ones imo. I'm not sure if all newer WRC games are like that.
Bro you have to watch 'WRC legend Walter Rohl' it shows in car footage of his feet literally dancing on the peddles.
you've got to watch some onboard rally footage. don't care whether it's group b or modern wrc but it's got to be onboard with the driver and co driver reading the pace notes.
at most some of these cars ran north of 500hp and the drivers struggled to keep up with the cars
1:39 Madness
Dude, it’s probably not you, but I can hear your laugh in the audience of John Deming ‘the sad truth about being broke😂 from a Londoner, I like your videos more than I like the originals rn (I mean they had their day)
No laps here. They’re point to point races taking in towns and countryside.
Watch out for the Scandinavian drivers. Part of their licence training for normal roads is to be able to handle the car in ice and snow so there’s quite a few that have developed higher skills in this area
06:02 They no laps. They was stages . Every stage was differend curves and places. No easy .Only once they get ride thru for legend make to paper notices
You just had to be there, Kielder, Dalby, Grizedale etc etc. Lottery GpB car = RS200 👍
"WRC is for boys. Group B was for men" /Juha Kankkunen
The biggest thing they have is concentration, the skill they are born with, you don't teach rally drivers orf the 80s 90s. RIP Colin Mc
Funny thing is you'd be looking at $200,000 - $650,000 to buy one of those era group b spec rally cars now.
Have a look at this
#WRGB
WRC - Wales Rally 2018: ONBOARD Paddon SS13, this is the drivers view
I recommend looking at a programme about Group B, to put into context what you are seeing here
I remember when A British female driver/co driver,went 75 feet down a wooded cliff in to a river/quarry landed upside down and got out with minor scratches I think long time ago now🤔
Louise Aitken-Walker Portugal 1990
@@jinxvrs I thought it was Waterman so didn’t write it as I didn’t think sounded right🤣🤣🤣cheers Stephen👍
Louise was chosen to drive from a selection board on a TV show ,sort of UK has RallyTalent!
@@simonhawksley817 well at least she got a real feel for rallying,sorry rolling,falling,escaping,surviving,true rally driver,and all credit to her,badass,
More then likely, that would have been Michelle Mouton driving the Audi.
Legend
Its stages, from point A to point B.
These engines may not have been that big compared to US engines, but slap a turbo (or 2) and supercharger on something that ways no more than a fat lady's shopping cart and you have a power to weight ratio in the 800 - 1000 HP per ton range . Plus, you could go to your local car dealer and buy the road version of these cars. Small, fast as fuck and a fortune to insure. And its not laps, its stages, point A to point B: 50 miles, 100 miles, and more. 20 or more stages over several countries and terrain - desert, snow, forest and road, for months and the fastest time at the end is the winner
You sir need to watch Simon Mckinley in his white escort.
You should react to the fury vs wilder fights
Just to note. They do stages, not laps xx