I love how so many of these indie games actually take the time to make life easier on the GAME MASTER rather than just have a bunch of shiny things for the players.
@@4saken404 very good point. I feel like the ridiculous number of broken options in the full expansion of 3.5 and 5e forgets that the DM spends all the money and the DM has to run a game for these rules.
And as the GM is the most important player, this should be the focus, without GMs there is no game. Giving players 100 choices and telling the GM to just get gud is a quick way to campaigns fizzling out or never even getting started.
You can definitely tell when a game is being designed by people who actually (1) play and love the game and (2) have GMed before and know how difficult some bad game design choices are.
Agreed. I was looking for an elevator pitch to share with prospective players, and so many casual viewers would lose their interest before other creators even get to talking about the game.
Well deserved awards. Shadowdark brought back my love of drawing dungeon maps and stocking them full of nastiness for hapless PCs to encounter. Such a simple and fun system that doesn’t require constant paging through the rulebook to find anything I might need.
@SortKaffe Not sure if you're just being hyperbolic here, but DCC's "funky dice" definitely exist in physical form. Goodman Games, DCC's publisher sells sets of them - and I'm pretty sure I've seen them on Amazon too.
I got the limited edition of Shadowdark, and it's one of those books I can't help but take off the shelf every now and then, just to bask in its beauty. There's such a telling difference between those creators who love their craft and want to share it with the world, and the cheap-as-possible approach from the more corporate producers. Shadowdark deserved every win, and Kelsey is such a class act. Well done to her 👏👏👏
Well deserved awards, congrats Kelsey and thanks for the video! It's a great game. I've been playing DnD since 1979 and I have plenty to say about every edition but my favorite thing to say about Shadowdark is that it makes me love the game again the way I did when I first began. I have more energy now for the hobby than I've had in many years.
Well earned for all four Gold Ennies. Everything you need to run a campaign but without sorting through tons of pointless paragraphs. Easy to learn. Simple to GM. Fast combat. Fun sessions. Familiar Old School feel but modern mechanics. We switched from 5E last year when I got a review copy and I will never go back to 5E. Sold all my books. DnDone.
Oooof that sucks. My friend got it through the Kickstarter and it wasn't that expensive, but KS probably had different distribution hubs set up than regular sales post release. Maybe they will make a deal with a distributor based in Europe, given the increased interest after Ennies?
I know she is working on it. But you have to realize Kelsey is a small essentially 2 person shop that about a year ago was hoping to make 50K on her project. Her success is unprecedented (unless you count TSR in the 70s) and even the initial shipment (during the covid backwash) was a huge lift. For me, PDF and print was the way I played SD for the first 12 months anyway. Wizbro appears to be moving toward the digital only offering. It might be a future we have to live with as shipping and printing costs soar. I like to print anyway and still use my printed version much more often. That premium book just looks to good on my shelf to use every day.
Kelsey is awesome at making her content accessible. Running her 5e adventures was always such a relief as a GM, whereas other published mods would have me flipping through pages hoping I didn't miss something vital, etc.
And don't forget! That free Shadowdark rules pdf also as a WHOLE ADVENTURE at the end of it - so you can try the game in a whole pre-made dungeon before deciding you want to buy. And for those of you thinking of running this free adventure (The Citadel of the Scarlet Minotaur), the creator of Shadowdark has a whole Adventure Walkthrough for it on her RUclips channel (The Arcane Library) - where she goes through the entirety of it
Absolutely in love with this game right now. I've set my other campaigns aside to focus on Shadowdark. Why? Because my players are having more fun with this than the other campaigns. More fun than we've had in a long time in fact. It works well at my table, and that's what matters most for me as a referee. I hope to see the Arcane Library keep supplementing the game thru Cursed Scroll, and other books. There is some very good 3rd party material out there as well. Exciting to see the ENNIES wins as it will attract even more players for the game. Congratulations and well deserved!
I agree. This seems like a great game for people that are new to the hobby. There just isn't anything there for me as someone who has been around for a bit. I felt the same way about Mork Borg when I first read through it.
The game is average at best. The rules for hexcrawling among others are some the worst i have seen. I cannot for the love of me understand what people find in this game.
I was one of those people who didn't really GET the hype around Shadowdark, not really being into old school gaming in general. After trying out a ton of systems I can really appreciate this book's concision and friendliness to new players
Shadowdark is NOT old school. It cherry picks some of the concepts and the result is a mess. Overland travel, conditions, encounter reactions all are a pile of dung.
Great video Baron. ShadowDark is my favorite current game system. I have played many of the adventures (most on my RUclips) and I always enjoy coming back for more. I highly recommend trying it to all players young and old from novice to veteran.
I think the biggest reason Shadowdark is so popular is that the barrier to entry is a trap door that JUST sprung open under you, dear reader, have some dice, roll up a character. We're going places we ought not to be looking for gold, jewels, and some shit to slaughter (y'know or run like hell from, running like hell is good too) before we come on back to town and drink the locals under the table as we regale them with our tales of triumph (and leaving out how we ran like scared little forest elves…) When it takes that little to go for a dive, and when the game is fast-paced and exciting, word spreads. And that builds critical mass of interested players.
Let's not kid ourselves. The game is fine but it's popular because a youtuber made it and all the other youtubers they're friends with promoted it to hell and back.
@@ppppppqqqppp focusing on the fact that Kelsey is a youtuber, rather than on the fact that she's an experienced and skilled game designer sounds dismissive. Shallow social media hype can definitely carry the crowdfunding campaign to a success. It usually doesn't last long enough to score you awards, unless there's real substance in the final product to back the initial marketing push.
@dziooooo She may be a good designer but she didn't invent anything in the game. She put it together into a slick, streamlined package and marketed it well.
The two greatest rules I steel from this game is the torched and encumbrance. I love the encumbrance. It make the characters choose all the time what they are going to carry.
For Carry Weight. In my TRRPG, I keep it simple. For both the video game and table top version. Only Armor Types affect Carry Weight. Nothing else. Naked and Clothing is the lightest weight of movement and the best for Stealth. But horrible for Physical Defence, excluding Enchanted Clothing for non physical defence. Light Armor is a step above clothing. Your Characrer wears it over their clothes. This adds Light Defence. Medium Armor makes Stealth rolls "straight rolls" with zero innate Adv to this roll. You wear this Armor on top of your light Armor, providing more physical defence and even Stat Distribution for combat. Heavy Armor rolls Stealth in Dis Adv but provides the best physical defence. You wear this over your Medium Armor. But be careful about your Attack Speed Stat if it's too low. Titan Armor Types exist for Light, Medium, and Heavy armors types. This is more useful against behemoths, Arcane Machines, and Mechanical Constructs of non magic. These follow the same the rule as it is basically a form of Exo Armor, which predates the creations of Mechs later on. That said... Weapons do affect Carry weight. Each weapon type/individual weapon contains its own Combat Stats. Take Attack Speed for example. From a scale of 1 to 5. A weapons with a 5 Attack Speed will always hit first compared to a weapon of 3 or less Attack Speed. While a weapon of 4 or 5 Attack Speed will be able to challenge a 5 AS weapon. Thus, a 3 AS weapon can challenge a 2 up to 4 AS weapon. There are 6 AS weapons but never innately. Only through mechanics such as Empower and EX Bursts, will some weapons gain 6 AS for one attack action. Attack Speed counters Evade and is used during Clashes. While Parry and Guard can negate all Attack Speed. So another Weapon Stat or Attack Action must be used.
Really like Shadowdark -- great game! -- but those are actually the two things I don't like -- easy enough to get rid of them by house ruling them out -- so easy to fix if you don't want to use them.
Encumbrance is always a good idea but it’s damn hard to implement because you want it to be easy to work out. Lifting big clumsy things is very easy to gauge in real life but so hard when using math.
@@TheMinskyTerroristExactly. Slot based encumbrance is nothing new. Real world timers are nothing new. I still don't fully *get* the hype for what is just another mish-mash retread of dungeon delving rules arranged to the author's preference.
Some people complain that Shadowdark is not original and just copies other ideas. This is fair but overly dismissive. Shadowdark brings together the best Ideas from 5e and the OSR with an incredible amount of polish. The systems of Shadowdark are not revolutionary, but with exquisite word choose and quality product design It's the most readable and cohesive RPG book I have ever seen.
Yeah, a lot of people who complain about the lack of originality don't seem to notice that there is actual value in making the design streamlined and VERY accessible to new players. It might not matter to someone who played every edition and hack since the 1970s. But the fact that Shadowdark doesn't assume that you have those foundations already is a huge part of why it's so successful. People can actually pick it up as their first ever TTRPG, and it's relatively easy to convince 5e players to try it out (much easier that the OSR titles which lean more into the retro aspect).
Like Antoine st exupery said, a thing is complete not when there is nothing to add, but when there is nothing to take away. That's shadowdark in a nutshell.
@dziooooo Yes, that’s the value. It has a very good layout and high production values. What we take issue with is the idea that it created the concepts in the game, not that it presented them well.
@ZXM500 That’s mainly what it is, it's polish. The people praising it are also praising it for being original though. You're doing it yourself - the idea of putting 5e rules in OSR is not original either.
@@TheMinskyTerrorist Sure, others had the idea of combining elements from the older games and 5e, no one worth listening to says that Kelsie was the first person to do it. The idea is not new. The EXECUTION of that idea is in my opinion much better than what I've seen in other retro clones and OSR games. It's made by someone who clearly loves and understands these games, and an award for Shadowdark is a celebration of the OSR scene. I don't see why anyone would be bitter or mad about it.
I like Shadowdark very much... the rules, the layout... everything is top-notch. What I do not like is that the basic rulebook only contains 4 classes. It is just not enough for a class based system... I know that there are more official classes in the zines, but I would have much prefered to have a greater variety in the main book.
I remember all the backlash when Shadowdark's kickstarter blew up. A lot of "who does she think she is" and "It's not all that." Wonder what those folks have to say now.
Most of them still hate it. The biggest criticism is that it 'does nothing new', which is probably true. It's designed to be a bridge between 5e players and the OSR, so it draws on elements of DCC, ICRPG and 5e to do so.
It really isn't. There are probably a dozen OSR games on Drivethrurpg doing exactly the same things. The thing it does well is production values and marketing. It's the equivalent of someone making a joke, then someone else copying it, saying it louder, and getting the laughs.
@@ScottBaker_ It's not a bad system, it's just not as original as a lot of people think. The ideas have all been done before, and they've also been put together before. 5e players who haven't heard of the OSR seem to think it's the first of its kind, which is a little irritating.
Shadowdark is awesome for all the reasons listed in this video and more. However I think that Dolmenwood is honestly, even better. It also touches up old-school things and makes them more presentable to modern audiences. The Formatting and book quality is just as good as mentioned here, but the campaign setting is included and is so rich it's crazy, arguably one of the best ever made for D&D so far. Also the extra character race and class options in the core book is a welcomed addition. I highly recommend people picking up Dolmenwood and giving it a go, it's significantly better than D&D2024 and gives Shadowdark a good run for best TTRPG to date.
Dolmenwood is not a game, its a setting for Old School Essentials, which is a reprint of the 1974 DnD rules. You've just discovered Dungeons and Dragons.
@@jaysw9585 I didn't just discover Dungeons & Dragons, I've been playing TSR D&D since I was a kid. Also old school essentials is not just a reprint of 1974 OD&D. The classic version sure, but OSE advanced brings in AD&D classes and BXifies them, which is no where to be found in any of those editions, so OSE does indeed take some liberties, and is not simply a reprint. The original intention for Dolmenwood was just a setting with OSE ruleset, but maybe you were unaware, the creator decided to take it a different way and wrote a Dolmenwood specific ruleset for the setting. It'ss heavily inspired by AD&D 1e and earlier, just like Shadowdark is. Which is why it was delayed for so long, and for the better too. The Dolmenwood ruleset differs from TSR D&D in many ways: -Attack Bonus is base rules now, no attack matrix or thac0. -The slot based ecumbrance system is base. -There are new classes like the Enchanter who is a caster that doesnt use spellslots, but uses runes instead. -The ability checks are done using a 1d6+mod with higher being better, rather than rolling under your stat. -There is a whole system for camping and rest during travel. -There are travel points to simplify the hex crawl. -All the holy and arcane spells are redone or new, and there is a third type called fairy magic. -There are no race or class or level restrictions -The skill check system has been revamped as well -Fighters have combat talents like Shadowdark, and they work well. etc.. There is just so much polish and refinement going on here, that calling it a reprint of OD&D is astoundingly ignorant. I don't mean that as an attack on you personally, just that I think you may not be aware of Necrotic Gnomes wonderful product, and I wouldn't want people to be mislead by your comment.
@zantharian57 I wasn't aware they took it furthering inhave with the basic and advance editions of OSE. They added some unique class to keep the product going and an option ascending Armor Class to replace thac0, but it is still using the same matrix formula. Honestly, I didn't know anyone that used that chart. If they took Dolmanwood in a more unique direction, thatbis great. I personally feel there is too much nostalgia for those old systems. Yes, the challenge was there, but there was some clubky stuff too, like the savings throws, skill and skill check mechanics. I honestly had no problem with THAC0. Savings throws bothered me more.
So not only is it designed to evoke the feel of early D&D, it's pared down to the basics to read like basic D&D without the encumbering word-bloat that crept into each successive edition. I wish I'd seen this sooner. Two weeks isn't a lot of time.
Oh, my God, I remember how the ENnies went from “shoestring production online with Gary Gygax as a guest announcer” to “one of the most prestigious awards in TTRPGs” 😄 My God, time flies.
Great 'review', but I have to add that you forgot the Ranger and Bard. To be honest, I would have loved them beeing in the core book to or as an printed page like the 4 Monsters Kelsy if you read that I would definitely buy all other Monster Monday Monster as printed pages
It’s a shame that you don’t have to flip all around the book for entries on, say, “doors”! That’s what we loved about D&D back in the day, flipping pages!
IMO, the best rule in Shadowdark is the "always on" initiative system. It doesn't look like much, but it's a gem. In a time when many new games are ditching initiative all together, my first take was that it was a dated mechanic and would just get in the way. I was totally wrong. It plays wonderfully. It has two net positive effects on the game - one, it prevents one player from monopolizing the table because no one person can ever get more than a short period of time in the spotlight; two, it keeps the game moving. That second point, particularly as a GM, is massive. Pacing is sometimes very hard to get right, particularly if you have a group of players that overthink things. Always on initiative helps so much with this. To really appreciate this rule, you have to experience it.
I saw the video! You guys were amazing. I was as excited as if someone I knew personally had won the award. It's pretty crazy how that works. Well deserved though. Great game!
It's the love child of old school BECMI, the best parts of 3.X, and the modern OSR titles such as The Black Hack. And the great element it's that it gives players and DMs stuff to play with, instead of gratification rewards.
It is 70% 5e and some parts from DCC mainly plus some other systems. It is NOT 3.x or older. There are 6 saves like 5e and they don't get better by levelling like the old systems. Complete overnight healing is pure 5e too btw.
I hope this momentum keeps going, I love running Shadowdark, and I want to continue to point and laugh at all the naysayers who said it would be a heartbreaker RPG.
It's just the best game. It doesn't do everything perfect, but it is more complete than 95% of anything else out there. It is spectacular and my current favorite system.
Basic Fantasy, DCC, and OSE are up there as well. Shadowdark is a good game -- but it is just riding a hype train. Nothing any better than some other excellent other OSR TTRPGs.
@quantus5875 but a lot of us who have also tried out those other systems happen to prefer Shadowdark. I find it perfect for introducing new players to the TTRPG hobby
Shadowdark is more streamlined. I prefer OSE too, but because I adjusted it to my taste with house rules. Otherwise Shadow dark is just the most accessible and complete OSR game out there. I wouldn't play it because it requires a bit of tuning when using old modules and material.
@quantus5875 I don't know about that, I bounced off of some of the big names in OSR scene because many of them assume the person reading them is an old school grognard who ALREADY KNOWS a lot of basic assumptions of this style of gaming. Shadowdark is not really my jam (I prefer more collaborative story games now), but I can see that it can easily be someone's first TTRPG ever, and they will get a complete set of tools to get the game going immediately, all in one book. Plus, Shadowdark has much fewer toxic loudmouths than other corners of the OSR scene. Other than the few folks who for some reason took it as a personal insult that someone would enjoy Shadowdark more than the Black Hack.
@@dziooooo Realize that if these people are coming from D&D 5e that they are already playing a game that is something like a ~"5" or a "6" on the complexity scale going to something like SD, OSE, and Basic Fantasy that are all around a ~"3". If you've already played D&D 5e all of these games are super simple in comparison. And the reason I mention Basic Fantasy and OSE is that they are examples of OSR games that do not make assumptions on player base, in fact, if you've played either of these two they both cater to new player bases.
Interesting how it got awards for best rules when all the rules have been around in other systems for years. After reviewing the book, I decided not to get it because it would just be redundant in my OSR library. However I will give props for layout and old-school art
In all honesty, I'm replacing D&D 5e (and MOST LIKELY DnD One) with Shadow darks core rule book. It's just less work for me as a DM and the simplicity of it all makes it so much goddamn easier to run my games. My group loves this so much more than whatever WOC has been cooking up.
Shadowdark is a fantastic system that has the best mechanics from the D20 System with an old school feel. It also pairs well with all of my old AD&D & BECMI materials to be experienced by the next generation of D&D players.
I really respect this system, especially in how concise and yet thorough it clearly aims to be. But the old 1E dungeon crawling feel to it is really not my vibe. Maybe for one particular dungeon or adventure, I might run this eventually. Clearly, the writers have a lot of passion and experience behind their pages. Not surprised it is garnering attention as 5E was absolutely soft compared to the first two editions of DND. So there was an audience to be found for sure.
We play it and it works well for literally any campaign. Since treasure is what gives experience, I have DM’d a game where the treasure was a reward from a quest given and another time where they ran an urban heist. Honestly, it’s the exact same setting we did 5e in but with different rule sets.
I wasn't accusing you OF propadanda. If you don't like it, you don't like it. Im just saying I have seen plenty of "it's just a delver game" from many sites, and apparently you have too. Professor DM even addresses this in a recent video.
Sounds like this fills the same spot on my shelf, as Steve Jackson's; The Fantasy Trip , legacy edition. Gotta love a simple game , that is very realistic.
I've played and run quite a bit of Shadowdark. It does what it says on the tin for sure. For a modern take on OSR style play, you can't beat it IMO. If you aren't concerned with strictly adhering to B/X or Oe type rules, then Shadowdark can likely be used as your "go to" OSR system. It's roughly equivalent to the old White Box with most of the supplements in scope of play. If your jam is more along the lines of AD&D, then it probably won't be what you're looking for. That being said, all the accolades being heaped on Shadowdark are well-deserved.
"[Polymoprh] is still somehow shorter than the spell description for 5th Edition's Burning Hands." Let's put that to the test. Today on Mythbusters: is the Shadowdark description of Polymorph actually shorter than the D&D 5E description of Burning Hands? If we look at the body of the spell description, SD Polymorph comes in at 92 words and 423 characters (512 with spaces) while 5E Burning Hands has 96 words and 433 characters (529 with spaces). Its a close call, but SD Polymorph is indeed shorter than 5EBurning Hands. Myth Confirmed. (Note: SD's Polymorph is pure mechanics while Burning Hand's first sentence is basically just fluff describing the spell's appearance. We could also eliminate the "At Higher Levels" descriptor, as it's redundant information. This would drop the description down to 71 words and 305 characters. The point still stands, but I just wanted to further highlight the pragmatism and efficiency of Shadowdark's writing.)
While it's a nice streamlined game, there was a reason we left B/X and moved on to AD&D in the past. The game is great for introducing new players to the genre; for quick one offs, or the play pretend crowd the predominate the hobby it seems today; however, Our group simply need more meat on the bone for campaign play. I think it's a good book for your DMs toolkit, nonetheless, even if you don't play the system at your table.
Unfortunately, expensive and not available in Europe (or add indecent shipping cost then add the import tax then add tax), so it end up 120 euro for a small book. The Arcane Library should really address this. Wanted to buy it ... had to fall back to pdf only. And adding tax on pdf, WTF !
Import tax? In Canada we pay import tax on books if they are available locally. We don’t pay, or are refunded, if the book is not available from a Canadian seller. Is the European system different? Shipping, however, is a problem, especially from the US. Shipping from the US to Canada is often more than from Australia or Japan.
Working on it, but there's no way to bring shipping prices down or avoid import tax, unfortunately -- someone will have to pay it, whether its the importer or the customer. The only way around that is printing within the EU, and that isn't an option. Another good method is if a local FLGS in the EU want to stock it so we can get them a wholesale account with us and they can buy in larger quantities. We already have some EU-based retailers who do this. Retailers end up fronting the cost for shipping and import taxes, but whether they pass that on to the customer is hard to say. Some do and some don't! Edit: Also, there should not have been tax charged on your PDF unless you're buying from a certain group of U.S.-based states, or unless your country of origin requires it. Taxes are not fun and I sadly have no control over them!
@@TheArcaneLibrary ooh thanks for your answer and insight :) Is there a list off those retailers somewhere? That way us europeans van check out if that’s a better deal. And congrats on the ennies! :D
I had a DM in 5e who used to insist on reading out the entire spell description every time he didn't know what a spell did (he would look up the description and read it)... Eventually I just got to where I was like "hypnotic pattern, wisdom save, DC 18, incapacitated until you take damage or someone uses their action to slap you awake" or "burning hands DC 15 reflex save, 3d6 fire damage" He quit doing that after about 20 sessions. But damn 5e spells are so wordy, personally the insistence on "natural wording" of all class abilities and spells is a pet peeve of mine in 5e. That was far from my only qualm with the system but it was one of the ones that pissed me off way more than it should, as DM because I was having to constantly translate "natural wording" into mechanics and explain why a players ability didn't work like they thought it should, and as a player because not only did I have to go through a wall of text to find what something actually did, but I had to cross examine each word to see if it did the thing I thought it did. Glad I discovered other systems I like better.
I really like Shadowdark and I have run & played it bit. I'm conflicted between running Shadowdark or Dolmenwood (or Dolmenwood Essentials - DWE - the core rules from DW applied to BX/OSE) as my main game.
Shadowdark's success is really due to factors unrelated to the game itself, which one of a long line of serviceable retreads of dungeon-delving ideas: 1. Kelsey put in a few years of work building a following in the huge 5E world. 2. When the OGL debacle happened and 5E players/GMs considered a jump, Shadowdark was an accessible entry point to "old school" gaming. 3. She benefits from not being a older male grognard complaining about 5E, which doesn't turn off prospective 5E converts, and lastly 4. her previous work built relationships with popular (mostly) 5E content creators like Baron here, Professor DM, etc. all of whom were ready to spread the word about her game. A recipe for success, to be sure, and something for other creators to learn from.
Very nice review of a great game that deserves all its Ennies. I’ve been playing Shadowdark for one year and my teen players all prefer it over 5e. Very easy to learn for new players too.
I don't know why so many OSR players are upset about a 'lack of innovation' in Shadowdark. Since when has the OSR been about innovation? It's about recreating the feeling of playing D&D in ages past, with simple rules that trust the DM to know what kind of game they and their players really want. DCC and C&C are basically OSR games that were designed to be easy for players familiar with 3.X D&D, and I don't see people criticism them for lacking innovation. Or the endless slight variations on B/X or BECMI that fill the market; aren't they all derivative as well? So why can't we have an OSR game to bring in 5e players? In order for the hobby to thrive, we will always need fresh blood as older players age out or leave this veil of tears. The more games we have to bring in a wider variety of players, the better, I say.
Thank you for making this video. I am currently typing up my RPG Skirmish game and this will help me with the layout!!. Your videos about what is good and bad about RPGs has helped me with creating my game system!!! Thanks!!
I definitely need to try Shadowdark, but I don't think a bare-bones rules-light system is for me. Honestly I think I'd just use it as a supplement for my 5E games and utilize it's items and encounter tables.
There is nothing wrong with that if you like 2000 pages of rules. Shadowdarks tables alone are worth the price of the book. The same goes for Index Card RPG. I swear it is the best GM book (for ANY genre) available.
@@NemoOhd20 Yeah I saw a big breakdown of Shadowdark, definitely isn't for me. Might have enjoyed it when I was 1st getting into TTRPGs, but I think I'd already have swapped over to 5E by now even if I had. I like having alot of rules, for me as a GM it makes running things easier (don't like having to make random decisions on every little thing my players do- but with rules it creates a buffer of sorts), and as a player it makes me feel like my GM isn't just pulling BS out of their ass at every turn.
Lovely. An year ago I suspected we do not need a billion dollar corporation to provide for our hobby. Nowadays, between Shadowdark and the blurred pages of the latest DnD edition this it obvious. 🎉
prestigious awards institute? It's not for that matter, Ennies was once (if it isn't already) a suspicious award to say the least, so much so that there are companies that don't even send their games because they have no interest in participating in the so-called "prestigious awards institute" such as Goodman Games which at the very least would destroy (win) almost every category.
While I much prefer the dungeon crawling rules of OSE (and just prefer it in general over Shadowdark), Shadowdark is still pretty good and I'm glad people are responding too it.
Did you watch the video? It's not a retroclone but rather combines ideas from a number of great games.. Heart of D&D Basic at it's core but mechanics inspired by other games like DCC and ICRPG... roll to cast, level zero funnel, and slot encumbrance being a couple of examples. And then throw in a few innovations like the torch timer, which is a simple way to amp up the tension. And roll to see what improvements your character gets when they level up is another. As someone who most plays OSE / BECMI and DCC, Shadowdark is a near perfect efficient and smooth execution of that feel and those concepts. But totally cool if you prefer other games. If you are truly interested in learning about it, I would recommend downloading the free rules and reading them. And either playing a few games or watching some games online. Best of luck to you.
Fifth edition has to be verbose because it’s for new players OSR systems like this don’t need all the rules because a lot of people already have them in their heads. People left tables, but I’ve never seen a book with more useful tables than the old rules cyclopedia
So many of these post-5e systems just take 5e, strip out a bunch of ideas, and say "now make things up to fill in the gaps", despite the biggest criticism of 5e being its favour for rulings over rules. Just look at the spell list. Almost every spell is a 5e spell with the same effect but stripped of error handling. Like, yes, Polymorph is short. Well done. But I'd have to do ten times as much work to actually run it because so much of what it does is glossed over with text that says "you figure it out". At this point, I may as well run a freeform roleplay and give players a spell list as long as the list of ideas they can imagine.
I don't get the focus on torches... Like... roleplay wise, just bring some lanterns.. with candles.. those things can keep you going for hours and hours with a restock.. Surely a spell that produces a light glow seems very feasible.. anyhow.. other than that. pretty good lol
The idea is to create a sense of urgency to keep the game moving. And there are lanterns that run on oil flasks and a Light spell in SD as well; both also last an hour.
Shadowdark only has easy availability in the US. Those of us outside the US scratch our heads at why this Shadowdark game keeps appearing on RUclips. It blurs into the massive collective of other OSR games.
Which OSR games are easily available outside the US? I really don't know one way or the other. They all seem like small publishers without foreign based affiliates though.
@@NemoOhd20 The #1 OSR TTRPG in Brazil is a game called "Old Dragon" which is, of course, in Portuguese and written by Brazilian creators. It is based off of Basic Fantasy. Dragonbane (not sure if you consider that OSR) is the #1 TTRPG in Sweden. Not sure about Germany, although #1 TTRPG in Germany is Das Shwarze Auge (not an OSR game), which is of course written by Germans and is in German.? I've got to assume there are OSR games that have been translated to French, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Finnish, etc. and that some countries have native OSR efforts like "Old Dragon".
@@quantus5875 I only know of Dragonbane. It seems ok but I don't own it. I do have some Free League games but they are very expensive too ship. If I buy them from local sources, I don't get the "free" pdf but the cost of shipping almost offsets buying a hardcover here and a pdf from DTRPG.
There's a lot to like about Shadowdark, I backed the whole shebang on Kickstarter. I had hoped Shadowdark would have been more heroic and not so deadly/vanilla. I keep looking for something less complicated than 5e/PF2e but still focused on PCs being heroes not villagers with a short sword. Shadowdark's PCs are barelt competent and the classes are samey. I have decided to use Shadowdark as a tool to home brew such a system along with ICRPG and others. The upcoming Reaper Dungeon Dwellers might be the closet RAW to what I'm looking for.
Consider checking out Low Fantasy Gaming from Pickpocket press. The rules are simpler than modern D&D, but the PCs are beefier than their old-school counterparts.
I love how so many of these indie games actually take the time to make life easier on the GAME MASTER rather than just have a bunch of shiny things for the players.
Yes, agreed, to include Basic Fantasy and OSE and DCC, which Shadowdark borrows many ideas from.
@@4saken404 very good point. I feel like the ridiculous number of broken options in the full expansion of 3.5 and 5e forgets that the DM spends all the money and the DM has to run a game for these rules.
And as the GM is the most important player, this should be the focus, without GMs there is no game.
Giving players 100 choices and telling the GM to just get gud is a quick way to campaigns fizzling out or never even getting started.
@@quantus5875 SD certainly took a good look at OSE's fantastic layout choices. That is a good thing.
You can definitely tell when a game is being designed by people who actually (1) play and love the game and (2) have GMed before and know how difficult some bad game design choices are.
I love that you just get right to the point. No bloat, no lame attempts at comedy, no overproduced skits. All killer, no filler. Thank you.
Agreed. I was looking for an elevator pitch to share with prospective players, and so many casual viewers would lose their interest before other creators even get to talking about the game.
Well deserved awards. Shadowdark brought back my love of drawing dungeon maps and stocking them full of nastiness for hapless PCs to encounter. Such a simple and fun system that doesn’t require constant paging through the rulebook to find anything I might need.
DCC sounds fun, I just dislike they use unavailable dice types, so it can only be played online with a virtual dice roller
@SortKaffe Not sure if you're just being hyperbolic here, but DCC's "funky dice" definitely exist in physical form. Goodman Games, DCC's publisher sells sets of them - and I'm pretty sure I've seen them on Amazon too.
I think DCC has some of the best ideas, but it's implemented poorly.
Because the whole game is random tables, it' requires a lot of paging through the rule book. More so than more complicated games.
@@SortKaffeyou can buy the dice. I have multiple sets. There is also alt rules using the standard dicw.
Writing short is much harder than long, so kudos to Kelsey! Very well done! And congrats on the Ennies!
Kelsey is awesome at making concise content. Her 5e adventures have been a lifesaver for more than a couple of my campaigns.
I got the limited edition of Shadowdark, and it's one of those books I can't help but take off the shelf every now and then, just to bask in its beauty. There's such a telling difference between those creators who love their craft and want to share it with the world, and the cheap-as-possible approach from the more corporate producers. Shadowdark deserved every win, and Kelsey is such a class act. Well done to her 👏👏👏
Well deserved awards, congrats Kelsey and thanks for the video! It's a great game. I've been playing DnD since 1979 and I have plenty to say about every edition but my favorite thing to say about Shadowdark is that it makes me love the game again the way I did when I first began. I have more energy now for the hobby than I've had in many years.
Well earned for all four Gold Ennies. Everything you need to run a campaign but without sorting through tons of pointless paragraphs. Easy to learn. Simple to GM. Fast combat. Fun sessions. Familiar Old School feel but modern mechanics. We switched from 5E last year when I got a review copy and I will never go back to 5E. Sold all my books. DnDone.
I wish this book was accessible in Europe! Shipping of ~30usd is a killer.
Oooof that sucks. My friend got it through the Kickstarter and it wasn't that expensive, but KS probably had different distribution hubs set up than regular sales post release. Maybe they will make a deal with a distributor based in Europe, given the increased interest after Ennies?
PDF available?
@@dataslak yes, you can get a PDF, some people prefer having a physical book though
I know she is working on it. But you have to realize Kelsey is a small essentially 2 person shop that about a year ago was hoping to make 50K on her project. Her success is unprecedented (unless you count TSR in the 70s) and even the initial shipment (during the covid backwash) was a huge lift.
For me, PDF and print was the way I played SD for the first 12 months anyway. Wizbro appears to be moving toward the digital only offering. It might be a future we have to live with as shipping and printing costs soar.
I like to print anyway and still use my printed version much more often. That premium book just looks to good on my shelf to use every day.
@@dataslak sure but it is not the same as having the book. Maybe when I get to GenCon in the US in a few years time I can pick up a copy.
Shadowdark and Dragonbane are two of the greatest additions to my fantasy TRPG library.
Same here.
Must not be a very big library
The reason I like Shadowdark is how easy it is to read. Many RPGs read like a textbook. I don't get bored reading SD.
Kelsey is awesome at making her content accessible. Running her 5e adventures was always such a relief as a GM, whereas other published mods would have me flipping through pages hoping I didn't miss something vital, etc.
And don't forget!
That free Shadowdark rules pdf also as a WHOLE ADVENTURE at the end of it - so you can try the game in a whole pre-made dungeon before deciding you want to buy.
And for those of you thinking of running this free adventure (The Citadel of the Scarlet Minotaur),
the creator of Shadowdark has a whole Adventure Walkthrough for it on her RUclips channel (The Arcane Library) - where she goes through the entirety of it
Absolutely in love with this game right now. I've set my other campaigns aside to focus on Shadowdark. Why? Because my players are having more fun with this than the other campaigns. More fun than we've had in a long time in fact. It works well at my table, and that's what matters most for me as a referee. I hope to see the Arcane Library keep supplementing the game thru Cursed Scroll, and other books. There is some very good 3rd party material out there as well. Exciting to see the ENNIES wins as it will attract even more players for the game. Congratulations and well deserved!
The game is not quite my thing but I do highly respect Kelsey Dionne and her design of this game.
This is exactly the way I feel about OSE, Pathfinder and a few other games. Not sure why people feel the need to attack.
I agree. This seems like a great game for people that are new to the hobby. There just isn't anything there for me as someone who has been around for a bit. I felt the same way about Mork Borg when I first read through it.
The game is average at best. The rules for hexcrawling among others are some the worst i have seen. I cannot for the love of me understand what people find in this game.
I was one of those people who didn't really GET the hype around Shadowdark, not really being into old school gaming in general. After trying out a ton of systems I can really appreciate this book's concision and friendliness to new players
Shadowdark is NOT old school. It cherry picks some of the concepts and the result is a mess. Overland travel, conditions, encounter reactions all are a pile of dung.
5:05 - “…for players who study monster lore the way they should have studied for their college exams.”
I feel called out. 😄
Great video!
Great video Baron. ShadowDark is my favorite current game system. I have played many of the adventures (most on my RUclips) and I always enjoy coming back for more. I highly recommend trying it to all players young and old from novice to veteran.
I think the biggest reason Shadowdark is so popular is that the barrier to entry is a trap door that JUST sprung open under you, dear reader, have some dice, roll up a character. We're going places we ought not to be looking for gold, jewels, and some shit to slaughter (y'know or run like hell from, running like hell is good too) before we come on back to town and drink the locals under the table as we regale them with our tales of triumph (and leaving out how we ran like scared little forest elves…)
When it takes that little to go for a dive, and when the game is fast-paced and exciting, word spreads. And that builds critical mass of interested players.
Shadowdark is a good game -- but I can name several OSR games that are just as easy to learn and play that include Basic Fantasy and OSE.
Let's not kid ourselves. The game is fine but it's popular because a youtuber made it and all the other youtubers they're friends with promoted it to hell and back.
@@ppppppqqqppp focusing on the fact that Kelsey is a youtuber, rather than on the fact that she's an experienced and skilled game designer sounds dismissive. Shallow social media hype can definitely carry the crowdfunding campaign to a success. It usually doesn't last long enough to score you awards, unless there's real substance in the final product to back the initial marketing push.
@dziooooo She may be a good designer but she didn't invent anything in the game. She put it together into a slick, streamlined package and marketed it well.
@@ppppppqqqppp You're right, we should only play games by unpopular people with no friends
Ran shadow dark last night for two of my buddies ver fun. The free start guide is excellent has a dungeon built into the gm guide.
The two greatest rules I steel from this game is the torched and encumbrance. I love the encumbrance. It make the characters choose all the time what they are going to carry.
For Carry Weight. In my TRRPG, I keep it simple. For both the video game and table top version.
Only Armor Types affect Carry Weight. Nothing else.
Naked and Clothing is the lightest weight of movement and the best for Stealth. But horrible for Physical Defence, excluding Enchanted Clothing for non physical defence.
Light Armor is a step above clothing. Your Characrer wears it over their clothes. This adds Light Defence.
Medium Armor makes Stealth rolls "straight rolls" with zero innate Adv to this roll. You wear this Armor on top of your light Armor, providing more physical defence and even Stat Distribution for combat.
Heavy Armor rolls Stealth in Dis Adv but provides the best physical defence. You wear this over your Medium Armor. But be careful about your Attack Speed Stat if it's too low.
Titan Armor Types exist for Light, Medium, and Heavy armors types. This is more useful against behemoths, Arcane Machines, and Mechanical Constructs of non magic. These follow the same the rule as it is basically a form of Exo Armor, which predates the creations of Mechs later on.
That said... Weapons do affect Carry weight. Each weapon type/individual weapon contains its own Combat Stats. Take Attack Speed for example. From a scale of 1 to 5. A weapons with a 5 Attack Speed will always hit first compared to a weapon of 3 or less Attack Speed. While a weapon of 4 or 5 Attack Speed will be able to challenge a 5 AS weapon. Thus, a 3 AS weapon can challenge a 2 up to 4 AS weapon. There are 6 AS weapons but never innately. Only through mechanics such as Empower and EX Bursts, will some weapons gain 6 AS for one attack action.
Attack Speed counters Evade and is used during Clashes. While Parry and Guard can negate all Attack Speed. So another Weapon Stat or Attack Action must be used.
Really like Shadowdark -- great game! -- but those are actually the two things I don't like -- easy enough to get rid of them by house ruling them out -- so easy to fix if you don't want to use them.
Encumbrance is always a good idea but it’s damn hard to implement because you want it to be easy to work out. Lifting big clumsy things is very easy to gauge in real life but so hard when using math.
@@jamescattaneo1155 Those have both been done before in other games
@@TheMinskyTerroristExactly. Slot based encumbrance is nothing new. Real world timers are nothing new. I still don't fully *get* the hype for what is just another mish-mash retread of dungeon delving rules arranged to the author's preference.
Some people complain that Shadowdark is not original and just copies other ideas. This is fair but overly dismissive. Shadowdark brings together the best Ideas from 5e and the OSR with an incredible amount of polish. The systems of Shadowdark are not revolutionary, but with exquisite word choose and quality product design It's the most readable and cohesive RPG book I have ever seen.
Yeah, a lot of people who complain about the lack of originality don't seem to notice that there is actual value in making the design streamlined and VERY accessible to new players. It might not matter to someone who played every edition and hack since the 1970s. But the fact that Shadowdark doesn't assume that you have those foundations already is a huge part of why it's so successful. People can actually pick it up as their first ever TTRPG, and it's relatively easy to convince 5e players to try it out (much easier that the OSR titles which lean more into the retro aspect).
Like Antoine st exupery said, a thing is complete not when there is nothing to add, but when there is nothing to take away. That's shadowdark in a nutshell.
@dziooooo Yes, that’s the value. It has a very good layout and high production values. What we take issue with is the idea that it created the concepts in the game, not that it presented them well.
@ZXM500 That’s mainly what it is, it's polish. The people praising it are also praising it for being original though. You're doing it yourself - the idea of putting 5e rules in OSR is not original either.
@@TheMinskyTerrorist Sure, others had the idea of combining elements from the older games and 5e, no one worth listening to says that Kelsie was the first person to do it. The idea is not new. The EXECUTION of that idea is in my opinion much better than what I've seen in other retro clones and OSR games. It's made by someone who clearly loves and understands these games, and an award for Shadowdark is a celebration of the OSR scene. I don't see why anyone would be bitter or mad about it.
I like Shadowdark very much... the rules, the layout... everything is top-notch.
What I do not like is that the basic rulebook only contains 4 classes. It is just not enough for a class based system... I know that there are more official classes in the zines, but I would have much prefered to have a greater variety in the main book.
I remember all the backlash when Shadowdark's kickstarter blew up. A lot of "who does she think she is" and "It's not all that." Wonder what those folks have to say now.
Most of them still hate it. The biggest criticism is that it 'does nothing new', which is probably true. It's designed to be a bridge between 5e players and the OSR, so it draws on elements of DCC, ICRPG and 5e to do so.
It really isn't. There are probably a dozen OSR games on Drivethrurpg doing exactly the same things. The thing it does well is production values and marketing. It's the equivalent of someone making a joke, then someone else copying it, saying it louder, and getting the laughs.
@@TheMinskyTerrorist Well-said, lol.
Well now they're posting what a bad system it is in the comments for this video. Haters gonna hate. Trolls gonna troll.
@@ScottBaker_ It's not a bad system, it's just not as original as a lot of people think. The ideas have all been done before, and they've also been put together before. 5e players who haven't heard of the OSR seem to think it's the first of its kind, which is a little irritating.
Shadowdark is awesome for all the reasons listed in this video and more.
However I think that Dolmenwood is honestly, even better. It also touches up old-school things and makes them more presentable to modern audiences. The Formatting and book quality is just as good as mentioned here, but the campaign setting is included and is so rich it's crazy, arguably one of the best ever made for D&D so far. Also the extra character race and class options in the core book is a welcomed addition.
I highly recommend people picking up Dolmenwood and giving it a go, it's significantly better than D&D2024 and gives Shadowdark a good run for best TTRPG to date.
Dolmenwood is not a game, its a setting for Old School Essentials, which is a reprint of the 1974 DnD rules. You've just discovered Dungeons and Dragons.
@@jaysw9585 I didn't just discover Dungeons & Dragons, I've been playing TSR D&D since I was a kid.
Also old school essentials is not just a reprint of 1974 OD&D. The classic version sure, but OSE advanced brings in AD&D classes and BXifies them, which is no where to be found in any of those editions, so OSE does indeed take some liberties, and is not simply a reprint.
The original intention for Dolmenwood was just a setting with OSE ruleset, but maybe you were unaware, the creator decided to take it a different way and wrote a Dolmenwood specific ruleset for the setting. It'ss heavily inspired by AD&D 1e and earlier, just like Shadowdark is. Which is why it was delayed for so long, and for the better too.
The Dolmenwood ruleset differs from TSR D&D in many ways:
-Attack Bonus is base rules now, no attack matrix or thac0.
-The slot based ecumbrance system is base.
-There are new classes like the Enchanter who is a caster that doesnt use spellslots, but uses runes instead.
-The ability checks are done using a 1d6+mod with higher being better, rather than rolling under your stat.
-There is a whole system for camping and rest during travel.
-There are travel points to simplify the hex crawl.
-All the holy and arcane spells are redone or new, and there is a third type called fairy magic.
-There are no race or class or level restrictions
-The skill check system has been revamped as well
-Fighters have combat talents like Shadowdark, and they work well.
etc..
There is just so much polish and refinement going on here, that calling it a reprint of OD&D is astoundingly ignorant. I don't mean that as an attack on you personally, just that I think you may not be aware of Necrotic Gnomes wonderful product, and I wouldn't want people to be mislead by your comment.
@zantharian57 I wasn't aware they took it furthering inhave with the basic and advance editions of OSE. They added some unique class to keep the product going and an option ascending Armor Class to replace thac0, but it is still using the same matrix formula. Honestly, I didn't know anyone that used that chart. If they took Dolmanwood in a more unique direction, thatbis great. I personally feel there is too much nostalgia for those old systems. Yes, the challenge was there, but there was some clubky stuff too, like the savings throws, skill and skill check mechanics. I honestly had no problem with THAC0. Savings throws bothered me more.
So not only is it designed to evoke the feel of early D&D, it's pared down to the basics to read like basic D&D without the encumbering word-bloat that crept into each successive edition. I wish I'd seen this sooner. Two weeks isn't a lot of time.
Oh, my God, I remember how the ENnies went from “shoestring production online with Gary Gygax as a guest announcer” to “one of the most prestigious awards in TTRPGs” 😄 My God, time flies.
these two things are not mutually exclusive ;)
Great 'review', but I have to add that you forgot the Ranger and Bard. To be honest, I would have loved them beeing in the core book to or as an printed page like the 4 Monsters
Kelsy if you read that I would definitely buy all other Monster Monday Monster as printed pages
The ranger and bard are seeing print in upcoming Cursed Scrolls! 😊
As Deathbringer says, "First, kill all the bards."
I'm looking forward to getting my copy soon. I may order that Viking themed Zine now as well.
This looks really cool. Thank you for the summary. I'm wanting a simplified and fun version of dnd and this looks great
It’s a shame that you don’t have to flip all around the book for entries on, say, “doors”! That’s what we loved about D&D back in the day, flipping pages!
Page Flip the RPG.
As a fellow indie developer, I truly appreciate the success she has had. Hats off to her! It’s certainly not easy.
It certainly is not easy. I do applaud her success. The TTRPG market is "tough".
IMO, the best rule in Shadowdark is the "always on" initiative system. It doesn't look like much, but it's a gem.
In a time when many new games are ditching initiative all together, my first take was that it was a dated mechanic and would just get in the way. I was totally wrong. It plays wonderfully. It has two net positive effects on the game - one, it prevents one player from monopolizing the table because no one person can ever get more than a short period of time in the spotlight; two, it keeps the game moving. That second point, particularly as a GM, is massive. Pacing is sometimes very hard to get right, particularly if you have a group of players that overthink things. Always on initiative helps so much with this.
To really appreciate this rule, you have to experience it.
I saw the video! You guys were amazing. I was as excited as if someone I knew personally had won the award. It's pretty crazy how that works. Well deserved though. Great game!
Kelsey also released a pdf with the ranger and bard classes. (Or there was one with the kickstarter. I can't find it in her store.)
It's the love child of old school BECMI, the best parts of 3.X, and the modern OSR titles such as The Black Hack.
And the great element it's that it gives players and DMs stuff to play with, instead of gratification rewards.
The best parts of D&D 3.x or of D&D 5e? I guess the difference is subtle. Also SD borrowed more from DCC, not The Black Hack.
It is 70% 5e and some parts from DCC mainly plus some other systems. It is NOT 3.x or older. There are 6 saves like 5e and they don't get better by levelling like the old systems. Complete overnight healing is pure 5e too btw.
I picked up the beginner pack at Gen Con and met the creator. She seemed genuinely blown away by the game's success.
I hope this momentum keeps going, I love running Shadowdark, and I want to continue to point and laugh at all the naysayers who said it would be a heartbreaker RPG.
I hear one of the judges for this new game jam literally destroys worlds 😆 Great video Baron!
It's just the best game. It doesn't do everything perfect, but it is more complete than 95% of anything else out there. It is spectacular and my current favorite system.
Basic Fantasy, DCC, and OSE are up there as well. Shadowdark is a good game -- but it is just riding a hype train. Nothing any better than some other excellent other OSR TTRPGs.
@quantus5875 but a lot of us who have also tried out those other systems happen to prefer Shadowdark. I find it perfect for introducing new players to the TTRPG hobby
Shadowdark is more streamlined. I prefer OSE too, but because I adjusted it to my taste with house rules. Otherwise Shadow dark is just the most accessible and complete OSR game out there.
I wouldn't play it because it requires a bit of tuning when using old modules and material.
@quantus5875 I don't know about that, I bounced off of some of the big names in OSR scene because many of them assume the person reading them is an old school grognard who ALREADY KNOWS a lot of basic assumptions of this style of gaming. Shadowdark is not really my jam (I prefer more collaborative story games now), but I can see that it can easily be someone's first TTRPG ever, and they will get a complete set of tools to get the game going immediately, all in one book.
Plus, Shadowdark has much fewer toxic loudmouths than other corners of the OSR scene. Other than the few folks who for some reason took it as a personal insult that someone would enjoy Shadowdark more than the Black Hack.
@@dziooooo Realize that if these people are coming from D&D 5e that they are already playing a game that is something like a ~"5" or a "6" on the complexity scale going to something like SD, OSE, and Basic Fantasy that are all around a ~"3". If you've already played D&D 5e all of these games are super simple in comparison. And the reason I mention Basic Fantasy and OSE is that they are examples of OSR games that do not make assumptions on player base, in fact, if you've played either of these two they both cater to new player bases.
Interesting how it got awards for best rules when all the rules have been around in other systems for years. After reviewing the book, I decided not to get it because it would just be redundant in my OSR library. However I will give props for layout and old-school art
I started on DnD basic but moved away from that style of play very quickly. But Shadowdark brought me back and I love it
Looks really up my alley. Going to snatch this up. Thank you for such an excellent video.
Also get the free quickstart, it has it's own adventure.
Maze Rats has a great monster generator
Maze rats and knave are 🔥 i ran maze rats campaig for almost 30 sessions and ive never felt so free as a gm.
In all honesty, I'm replacing D&D 5e (and MOST LIKELY DnD One) with Shadow darks core rule book. It's just less work for me as a DM and the simplicity of it all makes it so much goddamn easier to run my games. My group loves this so much more than whatever WOC has been cooking up.
Shadowdark is a fantastic system that has the best mechanics from the D20 System with an old school feel. It also pairs well with all of my old AD&D & BECMI materials to be experienced by the next generation of D&D players.
Dang, I love all Dungeon Masterpiece videos. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the fantastic review & Congratulations on Green Dragon Fest! It's great to see fresh new content rolling out!
I really respect this system, especially in how concise and yet thorough it clearly aims to be. But the old 1E dungeon crawling feel to it is really not my vibe. Maybe for one particular dungeon or adventure, I might run this eventually. Clearly, the writers have a lot of passion and experience behind their pages. Not surprised it is garnering attention as 5E was absolutely soft compared to the first two editions of DND. So there was an audience to be found for sure.
Ironically, Shadowdark, nor any OSR game, needs to be a Dungeon crawler, and SD specifically Theives outside it as much if not more outside it
We play it and it works well for literally any campaign. Since treasure is what gives experience, I have DM’d a game where the treasure was a reward from a quest given and another time where they ran an urban heist.
Honestly, it’s the exact same setting we did 5e in but with different rule sets.
It's just a crawler is propaganda. Much of the book is devoted to outside the dungeon.
@@NemoOhd20 I've never said anything to the contrary, though... By fighting a straw man argument, you are closer than me to doing actual propaganda XD
I wasn't accusing you OF propadanda. If you don't like it, you don't like it. Im just saying I have seen plenty of "it's just a delver game" from many sites, and apparently you have too. Professor DM even addresses this in a recent video.
About to run a D&D game, but am looking forward to this as my post game wind down video 👊
It was a video from you that got me into this game back before the kickstarter even appeared. Thank you
Sounds like this fills the same spot on my shelf, as Steve Jackson's; The Fantasy Trip , legacy edition.
Gotta love a simple game , that is very realistic.
Nice overview of Shadowdark! Great Stuff Baron!
I've played and run quite a bit of Shadowdark. It does what it says on the tin for sure. For a modern take on OSR style play, you can't beat it IMO. If you aren't concerned with strictly adhering to B/X or Oe type rules, then Shadowdark can likely be used as your "go to" OSR system. It's roughly equivalent to the old White Box with most of the supplements in scope of play. If your jam is more along the lines of AD&D, then it probably won't be what you're looking for. That being said, all the accolades being heaped on Shadowdark are well-deserved.
"[Polymoprh] is still somehow shorter than the spell description for 5th Edition's Burning Hands." Let's put that to the test. Today on Mythbusters: is the Shadowdark description of Polymorph actually shorter than the D&D 5E description of Burning Hands? If we look at the body of the spell description, SD Polymorph comes in at 92 words and 423 characters (512 with spaces) while 5E Burning Hands has 96 words and 433 characters (529 with spaces). Its a close call, but SD Polymorph is indeed shorter than 5EBurning Hands. Myth Confirmed.
(Note: SD's Polymorph is pure mechanics while Burning Hand's first sentence is basically just fluff describing the spell's appearance. We could also eliminate the "At Higher Levels" descriptor, as it's redundant information. This would drop the description down to 71 words and 305 characters. The point still stands, but I just wanted to further highlight the pragmatism and efficiency of Shadowdark's writing.)
While it's a nice streamlined game, there was a reason we left B/X and moved on to AD&D in the past. The game is great for introducing new players to the genre; for quick one offs, or the play pretend crowd the predominate the hobby it seems today; however, Our group simply need more meat on the bone for campaign play. I think it's a good book for your DMs toolkit, nonetheless, even if you don't play the system at your table.
Got my Weird Tales Jam content in! Great video.
Unfortunately, expensive and not available in Europe (or add indecent shipping cost then add the import tax then add tax), so it end up 120 euro for a small book. The Arcane Library should really address this. Wanted to buy it ... had to fall back to pdf only. And adding tax on pdf, WTF !
hooo! that’s good to know :0 Forgot about the import tax
Import tax? In Canada we pay import tax on books if they are available locally. We don’t pay, or are refunded, if the book is not available from a Canadian seller. Is the European system different? Shipping, however, is a problem, especially from the US. Shipping from the US to Canada is often more than from Australia or Japan.
Working on it, but there's no way to bring shipping prices down or avoid import tax, unfortunately -- someone will have to pay it, whether its the importer or the customer. The only way around that is printing within the EU, and that isn't an option.
Another good method is if a local FLGS in the EU want to stock it so we can get them a wholesale account with us and they can buy in larger quantities. We already have some EU-based retailers who do this. Retailers end up fronting the cost for shipping and import taxes, but whether they pass that on to the customer is hard to say. Some do and some don't!
Edit: Also, there should not have been tax charged on your PDF unless you're buying from a certain group of U.S.-based states, or unless your country of origin requires it. Taxes are not fun and I sadly have no control over them!
@@TheArcaneLibrary ooh thanks for your answer and insight :) Is there a list off those retailers somewhere? That way us europeans van check out if that’s a better deal. And congrats on the ennies! :D
Dungeon/terrain/settlement generators are extremely good.
@@blacklodgegames yooo great job on your Kickstarter.
@@blacklodgegames email me!
@@DungeonMasterpiece done!
I had a DM in 5e who used to insist on reading out the entire spell description every time he didn't know what a spell did (he would look up the description and read it)... Eventually I just got to where I was like "hypnotic pattern, wisdom save, DC 18, incapacitated until you take damage or someone uses their action to slap you awake" or "burning hands DC 15 reflex save, 3d6 fire damage"
He quit doing that after about 20 sessions. But damn 5e spells are so wordy, personally the insistence on "natural wording" of all class abilities and spells is a pet peeve of mine in 5e. That was far from my only qualm with the system but it was one of the ones that pissed me off way more than it should, as DM because I was having to constantly translate "natural wording" into mechanics and explain why a players ability didn't work like they thought it should, and as a player because not only did I have to go through a wall of text to find what something actually did, but I had to cross examine each word to see if it did the thing I thought it did.
Glad I discovered other systems I like better.
I really like Shadowdark and I have run & played it bit.
I'm conflicted between running Shadowdark or Dolmenwood (or Dolmenwood Essentials - DWE - the core rules from DW applied to BX/OSE) as my main game.
Thanks for explaining where all the hype comes from, can't wait to play this now
Thanks for covering this.
Shadowdark's success is really due to factors unrelated to the game itself, which one of a long line of serviceable retreads of dungeon-delving ideas: 1. Kelsey put in a few years of work building a following in the huge 5E world. 2. When the OGL debacle happened and 5E players/GMs considered a jump, Shadowdark was an accessible entry point to "old school" gaming. 3. She benefits from not being a older male grognard complaining about 5E, which doesn't turn off prospective 5E converts, and lastly 4. her previous work built relationships with popular (mostly) 5E content creators like Baron here, Professor DM, etc. all of whom were ready to spread the word about her game. A recipe for success, to be sure, and something for other creators to learn from.
Most of your recipe for success is beyond anyone's control 😅 what kind of lesson do expect us to take from this
A compelling product is still the entry point. Without that, audience and reach do nothing.
It also pairs really well with Knave 2e :)
Very nice review of a great game that deserves all its Ennies. I’ve been playing Shadowdark for one year and my teen players all prefer it over 5e. Very easy to learn for new players too.
Noice. Will check out the Quick start.
I don't know why so many OSR players are upset about a 'lack of innovation' in Shadowdark. Since when has the OSR been about innovation? It's about recreating the feeling of playing D&D in ages past, with simple rules that trust the DM to know what kind of game they and their players really want.
DCC and C&C are basically OSR games that were designed to be easy for players familiar with 3.X D&D, and I don't see people criticism them for lacking innovation. Or the endless slight variations on B/X or BECMI that fill the market; aren't they all derivative as well?
So why can't we have an OSR game to bring in 5e players? In order for the hobby to thrive, we will always need fresh blood as older players age out or leave this veil of tears. The more games we have to bring in a wider variety of players, the better, I say.
DCC and C&C like Shadowdark are not OSR. Also a big difference is Shadowdark copies a lot of concepts from DCC which was innovative for a change.
Thank you for making this video. I am currently typing up my RPG Skirmish game and this will help me with the layout!!. Your videos about what is good and bad about RPGs has helped me with creating my game system!!! Thanks!!
I definitely need to try Shadowdark, but I don't think a bare-bones rules-light system is for me.
Honestly I think I'd just use it as a supplement for my 5E games and utilize it's items and encounter tables.
There is nothing wrong with that if you like 2000 pages of rules. Shadowdarks tables alone are worth the price of the book. The same goes for Index Card RPG. I swear it is the best GM book (for ANY genre) available.
@@NemoOhd20 Yeah I saw a big breakdown of Shadowdark, definitely isn't for me. Might have enjoyed it when I was 1st getting into TTRPGs, but I think I'd already have swapped over to 5E by now even if I had. I like having alot of rules, for me as a GM it makes running things easier (don't like having to make random decisions on every little thing my players do- but with rules it creates a buffer of sorts), and as a player it makes me feel like my GM isn't just pulling BS out of their ass at every turn.
Excellent game, I have ran it a couple of times and I want more.
Dope vid, pal.
Lovely. An year ago I suspected we do not need a billion dollar corporation to provide for our hobby. Nowadays, between Shadowdark and the blurred pages of the latest DnD edition this it obvious. 🎉
Very cool. I’m very very tempted.
prestigious awards institute? It's not for that matter, Ennies was once (if it isn't already) a suspicious award to say the least, so much so that there are companies that don't even send their games because they have no interest in participating in the so-called "prestigious awards institute" such as Goodman Games which at the very least would destroy (win) almost every category.
Thank you, love all your videos
It's like they took old dnd and made it simple, love it.
100% to these comments, it’s basically the easiest version of an old school feeling crunchy 2e session
Spell rolls are so much better than spell slots, great game!
"The Bong of Vecna." LOL
Indie TTRPG layouts blow anything WotC does out of the water.
There has to be an ‘unearthed arcana’ version coming.
Kytherian Mechanism is also inspired by Akira Toriyama's classic franchise, Kytherian Mechanism Z
While I much prefer the dungeon crawling rules of OSE (and just prefer it in general over Shadowdark), Shadowdark is still pretty good and I'm glad people are responding too it.
Okay but what does this game have that makes it different from all the *other* minimalist gritty OSR games with a million random tables?
Did you watch the video? It's not a retroclone but rather combines ideas from a number of great games.. Heart of D&D Basic at it's core but mechanics inspired by other games like DCC and ICRPG... roll to cast, level zero funnel, and slot encumbrance being a couple of examples. And then throw in a few innovations like the torch timer, which is a simple way to amp up the tension. And roll to see what improvements your character gets when they level up is another.
As someone who most plays OSE / BECMI and DCC, Shadowdark is a near perfect efficient and smooth execution of that feel and those concepts. But totally cool if you prefer other games. If you are truly interested in learning about it, I would recommend downloading the free rules and reading them. And either playing a few games or watching some games online. Best of luck to you.
It still uses the D20 with advantage and disadvantage. Has roll to cast spells, and focuses heavily on light and darkness in dungeons.
Looking Forward to giving this a try.
Fifth edition has to be verbose because it’s for new players OSR systems like this don’t need all the rules because a lot of people already have them in their heads. People left tables, but I’ve never seen a book with more useful tables than the old rules cyclopedia
i am entering that contest
So many of these post-5e systems just take 5e, strip out a bunch of ideas, and say "now make things up to fill in the gaps", despite the biggest criticism of 5e being its favour for rulings over rules. Just look at the spell list. Almost every spell is a 5e spell with the same effect but stripped of error handling. Like, yes, Polymorph is short. Well done. But I'd have to do ten times as much work to actually run it because so much of what it does is glossed over with text that says "you figure it out". At this point, I may as well run a freeform roleplay and give players a spell list as long as the list of ideas they can imagine.
Awesome video! Can’t wait for a cursed scroll omnibus!
that game jam looks awesome, I think I'm gonna hop on it
I love the layout.
Sounds really cool!
Nice Video. ❤
How does Shadowdark compare with other OSRs, such as EZD6?
I don't get the focus on torches... Like... roleplay wise, just bring some lanterns.. with candles.. those things can keep you going for hours and hours with a restock.. Surely a spell that produces a light glow seems very feasible.. anyhow.. other than that. pretty good lol
The idea is to create a sense of urgency to keep the game moving. And there are lanterns that run on oil flasks and a Light spell in SD as well; both also last an hour.
Shadowdark only has easy availability in the US. Those of us outside the US scratch our heads at why this Shadowdark game keeps appearing on RUclips. It blurs into the massive collective of other OSR games.
Which OSR games are easily available outside the US? I really don't know one way or the other. They all seem like small publishers without foreign based affiliates though.
@@NemoOhd20 The #1 OSR TTRPG in Brazil is a game called "Old Dragon" which is, of course, in Portuguese and written by Brazilian creators. It is based off of Basic Fantasy. Dragonbane (not sure if you consider that OSR) is the #1 TTRPG in Sweden. Not sure about Germany, although #1 TTRPG in Germany is Das Shwarze Auge (not an OSR game), which is of course written by Germans and is in German.? I've got to assume there are OSR games that have been translated to French, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, Finnish, etc. and that some countries have native OSR efforts like "Old Dragon".
@@quantus5875 I only know of Dragonbane. It seems ok but I don't own it. I do have some Free League games but they are very expensive too ship. If I buy them from local sources, I don't get the "free" pdf but the cost of shipping almost offsets buying a hardcover here and a pdf from DTRPG.
There's a lot to like about Shadowdark, I backed the whole shebang on Kickstarter. I had hoped Shadowdark would have been more heroic and not so deadly/vanilla. I keep looking for something less complicated than 5e/PF2e but still focused on PCs being heroes not villagers with a short sword. Shadowdark's PCs are barelt competent and the classes are samey. I have decided to use Shadowdark as a tool to home brew such a system along with ICRPG and others. The upcoming Reaper Dungeon Dwellers might be the closet RAW to what I'm looking for.
Consider checking out Low Fantasy Gaming from Pickpocket press. The rules are simpler than modern D&D, but the PCs are beefier than their old-school counterparts.
thx for the video!
Hey! You forgot SoloDark! :)