Shadowdark Fixes Everything Wrong with D&D 5e
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2024
- Does Arcane Library's Shadowdark RPG fix every problem that existst in 5e?
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![Gunna - back in the a [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oBrbejOHjLw/mqdefault.jpg)
Bonus xp for "pedantic." BTW--I have a humanities degree and that joke was funny.
When he said that I thought, "Shots fired. Here comes the hate mail." Now I'm wondering if that was a nod to you. Also, loved the Deathbringer cameo.
The Professor is out here catching strays!
Masters degree in Comparative religions and ancient Christianities here.
Would you like fries with that?
Wait is this Dungeon Masterpiece or Dungeoncraft? I can't tell.
Hah 😂
I'm the drunk one.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 I thought that was Runehammer
Either way, we win.
All of them. I find SD advertised everywhere, even in the restaurant
Deathbringer cameo FTW!
Meh
Definitely a fun surprise!
@@Hdc3rd why?
That got me so hard I had to pause the video until I stopped laughing
I like that you guest starred deathbringer. I love Professor DM!
He loves you too.
IMO the reason 5e was ever “easy” to learn was due to the plethora of videos online that spoon feed you how to play. So when dms or players actually read the books, they find way more info on how to play
Shadowdark is still 5e ish though, so much less time to switch for most.
The basic system of 5e is by far the easiest version of D&D ever released. However, they've layered so much extraneous cruft on top, so many caveats, exceptions, and edge cases, as to make it almost as complex as 3.5!
Jefe, would you say I have a plethora of videos?
@@Klijpo exceptionally well stated. The bones are great. The fluff is ridiculous.
Interestingly, most of those books will tell you to find someone to learn from instead of reading the book if possible.
But I mean, what do they know, with their decades of game design and play experience?
I use Shadowdark to adapt an easier to play version of AD&D. Once I got the gist of where Kelsey was going, it was easy to adapt the rest of AD&D classes. Converting classics from that edition are easy to convert and it has been fun introducing a new generation to the adventures that made me fall in love with D&D.
I've found Shadowdark fun to play and even more fun to GM! The best part for me is how it seems to take the player's attention away from their character sheet and focuses it on the story, where it should be!
running two Shadowdark games with two very different groups and they both love it, and as a GM it has been a blast and super easy to run and create scenarios on the fly with
I love collecting RPG books, but often I find them hard to read. Run on Sentences. Rules hidden in text blocks. Long Intro's. You name it.
Reading Shadowdark made me acutely aware of this as it was so easy to read. Often I though this was my problem if I couldn't get through a rulebook. But I realized that that wasn't the case.
accessibility is important, Y'all.
Incorrect grammar, and horrible use of accent/punctuation points.
If you can't get through a rule book, whose problem is it? "Rules hidden in 'text blocks'?" Those are what we used to call paragraphs, right?
There is one thing from 5e death saves worth porting to Shadowdark: rolling a natural 1 on a d20 brings you closer to death. 5e saving throws are boring, until someone rolls a 1 and is suddenly one failure away from death, sparking a desperate scramble to save them.
So glad I backed this! I can't wait for the dead tree version to land in my grubby nasty little claws!
It doesn’t “fix” 5e because it isn’t trying to fix it.
Instead, it’s an excellently crafted set of rules pulling on a deep wealth of mechanics and rules simplification from OSR (clone and new interpretation) and the result is a game that for the most part is clear and concise.
The trade-off of course is complexity in choice and mechanic interaction ) which is pretty much zero), 4 classes - no subclasses; races are essentially fluff with a single trait for in game advantage; backgrounds one line description; short spell lists, simple description.
The real star of the book is for teaching new DMs how to run a game - it’s simply spectacular - feels the player rules were boiled down to their most basic level for this reason.
Great execution
Agreed. Where Shadowdark fails is that it doesn't have any Builds. You can't exercise your creativity by making any character you can imagine, you can only make *some* character that the dice decide for you. You wanted to play a strong character? Tough luck, the dice gave you bonus to dexterity instead.
I'm sure that it finds its place as pickup game at cons or oneshots between serious campaigns, but otherwise I don't see it hitting the table of discerning players.
5e players won't even look at another game unless you say it exists in relation to d&d though so I get the idea behind the title.
@@tuomasronnberg5244generally speaking, if players want to get a more powerful feeling character, the GM is the one with the onus to grant it. 5e has a serious power bloat problem found even in just the core player's handbook. Characters can far outclass any monster in just stats when using a very specific path of backgrounds, racial bonus, feats, stat improvements, and class "path" choices. This stops feeling like a roleplaying adventure and starts feeling like building a character in an MMORPG. When the GM controls the majority of the power level, the players generally roleplay out the actions they want to do. You don't need a feat that allows you to carry pocket sand to blind your opponent. Just keep some needed supplies on you like a prepared adventurer would and be ready to improvise solutions as the problem arises.
@@ShadowReaver573 If you can just make up stuff then why even use any rules at that point? Just sit in a circle and make up stories about your characters. You are downplaying the GAME part of RPG, but it's there for a reason.
Furthermore, I want to get use out of the rulebooks that I've paid for with my hard earned cash. You telling me to "just roleplay it out" is basically invalidating my purchase. If I've paid nearly hundred bucks for a feat that lets you blind people, then by God you better use that feat if you want to blind someone in the game!
@@tuomasronnberg5244 again that's not failure thats feature and it's not a game ABOUT imaginining characters but about imagining solutions to not let randomly rolled shmucks die terrible death.
I really love 1d4 rounds 'till death, similar to ICRPG. I like make my players roll in secret too - really throws a wrench in the encounter when the party has to stabilize the downed PC RIGHT NOW.
Ok but the thing is, Baron said it was way better than in standard 5e, which averages 5 rounds, but apparently this shadowdark game uses 1d4+CON!!! idk about you but most people prioritize constitution, and if you don't, then in this system you are actively choosing to be the weak link everyone has to save in every battle. Also this means the second a barbarian goes down with his +5 Con, they're safe for 6-9 ROUNDS, also unlikely to be brought back as a priority.
@@jakewernecke Max on any Shadowdark stat modifier is +4.
@@jakewernecke also there's no such thing as 'prioriteze' since you roll 3d6 for each stat separatly, not rolling 6 times and asigning rolls to stats.
@@jakewernecke Given how much deadlier combat in Shadowdark can become, the rest of the party might not be there in 6-9 rounds. They might be dead or fleeing for their lives. So trying to get someone back up ASAP can be very important.
@@jakewernecke As Merethif mentions, you cannot really prioritize stats in Shadowdark. 3d6 down-the-line, and only the Fighter class even has the chance to roll a talent with which they can choose to improve their Constitution.
I recently ran a one-shot with Shadowdark for my group and everyone had a good time. Overall we prefer magic to be more reliable, so the next game I run in it will have the casting house ruled (most likely something along the lines of only forgetting a spell if you roll the spell's tier or less on the d20 on the casting check).
When I started playing 5e (during its playtest), I found it "easy" compared to D&D 3/3.5 and Pathfinder 1e which I had been playing for years. After comparing it to more systems (such as Shadowdark, Mausritter, and FATE) I've realized there's definitely elegance to simpler rules sets, and most nuance that the more complex games try to capture just aren't felt in actual play.
I can certainly appreciate that feeling of magic not being reliable, however, most Magic Users SHOULD be rolling at about +4 to cast, which means they only need a 7+ at 1st leve, and get to roll with advantage for Magic Missle (effectively making Magic Missle a 2+ to cast). So, magic should be pretty reliable... at least from a Magic User.
Having learned how to play off of D&D 4e and Pathfinder 1e, I felt the 5e ruleset was quite streamlined at first. Over time,(especially when introducing new players) I've realized how crunchy it really is.
I had a very different idea for what was wrong with 5e.
This is the most accurate , articulate and concise explanation of the problems that so many (including myself) have with 5E.
That is what the Baron does. He delivers accurate , articulate, and concise ideas that will enrage the internet.
I ran Shadowdark for 8 kids (most of whom had never played before) and they LOVED it! The Torch mechanic made for some entertaining scenarios.
get rid of numbers! dammit
Me too. My daughters birthday. I thought it would be hard running for eight kids.
@@wingusryu8289 D&D would have been a nightmare but Shadowdark simplified SO much!
The best part was at the end when the kids were looking over their character sheets several of them exclaimed "I had a ten foot pole!?!? That could have helped with the traps!!!"
@@oldmanofthemountains3388 haha the traditional 10 foot pole - I always find it hilarious that characters often just casually have a 10 foot pole in addition to all their other stuff - its such a crazy item if you imagine it actually being with the character the whole time - it wont fit through doors or round tight corners, it constantly whacks the other characters, or drags on the ground. And where do you put it in an inn? its taller than the ceiling! Anyone who has ever walked home from the builders merchant with an 8foot 2x4 through a city knows they are not popping into a cafe for a sandwich unnoticed with that thing...
I don't get the torch thing, as soon as an hour is up, you just light a new one right? whats' so creative about that?
Being a father of two, still a little too young for role-playing, but not too much longer…I have found Shadowdark to be a great compromise as a GM.
D&D 3.5 has always been my favorite because it was “crunchy” and it would take two sessions for everyone to complete their chars. It was fun when I had the time.
I am starting a campaign for college friends who I am still close with but have never played D&D. I love what SD brings because it pulls from a little bit of all of the editions. The dungeon crawling and torch mechanic reminds of my AD&D 1st edition days. The rules are clear and easy to grasp and char creation is simple while still making sure you babe something unique. I love that mom/maxing is off the table as well. It has been great fun and having one book is such a novel concept these days.
The GM's section makes the 5e DM guide in the dust! No useless CR calculations and blah blah blah. Succinct and to the point.
Not that it’s a surprise, but it’s always good to hear you singing praises of Shadowdark!
After one session my group voted to switch to shadow dark. Fantastic system
Hey! My pre-17th century BA has helped me immensely - as a D&D DM, world-building!
Those dice are looking sweet! Nicely done.
I'm playing ShadowDark with a variety of groups and they're all really enjoying it.
However, as a frequent DM I will caution one small thing. In the brevity of the rules, I've found a lot of small "rulings" I have to make for common types of activities or questions. This certainly isn't a deal breaker, but common questions like what happens when encumbrance is exceeded, what happens when a character picks up a dagger in their off hand, when should XP be assigned, and how does the interaction between your "backpack" (an abstraction in the game) and gear "slots" work? Many little core concepts are not addressed by the rules in order to (presumably) keep things brief. As with any system there is a give and take between simulation and abstraction, but in order to maintain brevity there are points where SD goes a bit too far. The DM section frequently points out that the DM should make "rulings over rules", but that can be frustrating during a session, especially earl on, when it's common issues that are unique to some of the system quirks of SD.
Again, I really enjoy the system I just wish a FEW more words in a FEW key place had been used to help prevent having to "make rulings" for these common issues.
I've experienced firsthand that "ruling over rules" can be a nightmare for a first-time GM, it takes some time and several sessions under your belt to become able to adjudicate situations effectively and fairly.
From what you tell, it seems that SD may be a great introductory game for new players, but not really the best first game for a wanna-be GM.
And that could be a problem, it could leave the GM of the all-first-timer group bitter and frustrated.
@@claudiolentini5067 I'm actually a reasonably veteran GM (I'd say Journeyman, but no master by any means), and I absolutely agree that ShadowDark is an absolute joy as a player, but as a GM it requires a lot of judgement calls and candid conversations with players in the moment about if your ruling seems fair. Once you get used to it, it's fine but in the heat of the moment having to make a ruling about how to jump a chasm or swim for an extended distance underwater can be frustrating.
@@pez5767 Yes, i tend to see that in the OSR games that i read.
It could be a flawed pov, but i personally think that new GMs benefit more from structure, or at least examples and best practices, than they do from the freedom to make rulings.
I like that this praise is not fawning. Comes across as more legit.
Deathbringer's favorite book being Pride and Prejudice may be may favorite thing ever today.
I especially like your intro. I have introduced a few tables of educated, working adults to 5e and eyes glaze over after 30 min ( out of several hours) explaining concepts and systems. Shadowdark rules take a fraction of time to onboard. And the QuickStarts are free.
Hell yeah! Independent TTRPG Month!
I am just waiting for my copy
print your own pamphlets in the meantime.
"Deathbringer here, level up your game by going the old school way and bring back the shadow in the dark, so that you neber miss an episode!"
Dunno why, but now I want to run the "Kingmaker" campaign with Shadowdark rather than PF1 or 2
Deathbringer cameo made me laugh.
I really like Shadowdark quite a bit. When I first started to have a nostalgic urge to play D&D, I picked up my old Rules Cyclopedia, but found I couldn't really get into it. Some time later, I heard about Old School Essentials, picked it up, and really liked it. I almost feel guilty that I like Shadowdark even more...
There are a lot of great games out there but my game time is limited, so I think I ma going to focus on Shadowdark for the time being.
Hey, a humanities degree isn't worthless! You want whole milk or soy in your latte?
Oat, if you have it.
@@DungeonMasterpiece Oat is truth. So good in Cawfee.
What the hell? Deathbringer is freelancing? Are we not going to get a Deathbringer song?
A nice distillation of why my 2 year campaign dropped 5e like a hot rock after a single session playing Shadowdark. Easier rules; Better combat; Simple but exciting characters and an Actual Sense of Danger and Drama. Please continue to cover Shadowdark RPG even after July. It has vibrant and growing community.
what makes these characters exciting in these rules as written? I find it interesting to describe this as better combat, as it comes across basically as level 1 combat into perpetuity to me.
@@hawkthetraveler6344 Because rather than players defaulting to "I use my X Feat", they actually have to pay attention to the details of the world and situation and come up with imaginative things to do. You absolutely can do that in systems like 5E and Pathfinder, but in my experience, few ever do because relying on the Feats to be an "I win button" is so much easier. That's just my opinion based on my experiences. Your experiences may be totally different and no less valid.
Yep! Couldn't agree more. I've been saying the same thign to everyone that will listen. Everything I love about 5e, none of the cruft.
Can’t wait to get my copy!
"In 5e gold is about as meaningless as a humanities degree." 😂 Ow my career
I ran a Shadowdark gauntlet with players rolling random 0 level characters. Hilarious and dangerous and they loved it!
You should try it with Dungeon Crawl Classics - great game that encourages and has multiple ways to do what you liked!
Shadowdark does some good stuff. I'm not a huge fan of some of the class design choices, but I can see why they did what they did. The spellcasting simplifications are probably my favorite thing in the game.
After playing for a few months, it really is a great game, and the community and third-party support have been awesome. The spell system really grabs me, with risk at every cast. Do we use Cure Wounds now, what if we lose it and need it later? It's led to some real gambles and tense moments at the table.
Well, this is awkward, but funny.
I never moved from 3.5 to 5e because I tough 5e was an extremely simplified and streamlined version of 3.5!
To each its own, ofc.
Same here, but because I just didn't like 5e. It's in a weird place on the rules light to rules heavy continuum. If I'm going rules light, I want B/X with some AD&D mechanics sprinkled in (See: OSE Advanced Fantasy).
If I want a rules heavy, crunchy mechanical game, I'm playing 3.5 / Pathfinder.
5e just has nothing to offer me, though I can easily convert new modules / adventures etc to B/X or 3.5 if I wanted, at least.
at 2:07 where did you find this image? that book on the character's lap doesn't make sense.
When I heard 'carousing' my mind immediately jumped to the D&D parody system Hackmaster. And its carousing tables.
Very nice. Sounds good. Will take a look
HAa!! DEATHBRINGERRrr!!
I still think it makes the most sense for a "Tier 1" spell to be for first level characters and the spells for a third level character to be Tier 3. Seems pretty obvious. No one will miss the Tier 2 and we have plenty of numbers to spare.
It's hilarious that most of the magic changes are exactly what I threw in my 5e hack. My players love the simplicity and flexibility it gives them. Removing spell lists outside of a few spellcasting classes really lets them run wild with how they express their characters
You nailed this so hard my guy!!!!
Nice game system, as a 5e DM, you've got me thinking about adding to my home brew list 😊
I like the death save mechanic
The spellcasting check alone makes this book huge for me. I love that idea because I'm still not the biggest fan of the Vancian casting system.
THAT CAROUSING SYSTEM THOUGH. OH MY GOD WHAT.
fabulous game design . . . have been hoping to see videos of actual game play, and your "Game Jam" looks like a great idea
Modern DnD feels way to casual in my opinion. I couldn't really pinpoint my feeling of unease until i watched another video recently. There it was said, you didn't act afraid because of some failed fear aura effect, you were actually afraid for your character because on a hit you just lost character levels. And yes, I have to agree with that. In addition in 5e the short- and long rest system makes characters heal way to fast and way to effortlessly.
As an OSR DM...I totally agree with you. Modern D&D isn't lethal or deadly enough for how I want to run a game. I have an entire backup *party* ready to go for my game because of the looming threat of TPK's if the party gets careless.
The modern concept of this Marvel Superheroes / anime character power fantasy roleplaying is so off-putting to me. And if I wanted to play that kind of game, I'd play Exalted, not D&D.
Deathbrigner started is campaign of conquest on to other TRPG channels .
Thank you for explaining the spell tier system! I'm halfway through an adventure and I've been playing it as 'spell slots' still. I need to tell my wizard players that they can still use their un-flubbed spells.
I love shadowdark
I am very much looking forward to getting my hardcover copy of the Shadowdark rules sometime soon! Question to other Kickstarter backers: have you received your hardcover yet, or know when they expect to ship them? Any insight is appreciated!
it seems a great way to merge a lot of good aspects of the OSR movement with the few good things of the 5e
That's basically what it is and it is done beautifully.
@@nsideddice I will probably buy the PDF for the next campaign in 5E
Exactly - "Your chocolate is in MY peanut butter..."
Shadowdark makes for a great little one-shot and the artwork is awesome.
Thanks for the review. Definitely gonna order me a shadowdark book now.
In addition to all the fine points made in this video, I'd add one more. Simplified mechanics are also simple to modify. With a game like Shadowdark, you can change what you don't like and there is a good chance that you can correctly predict how it will alter the game. Adding or deleting a single sentence may be all that is required.
Thank you for this information. I appreciate it. I have a 5e group that is hitting 4tn and 5th levels. This will give me some new tools to use as I want to continue and make it to 20th level.
Im so glad you're talking about this! Love this system!
The title excited me, because I think 5e is a game ripe for a rewrite, but Shadowdark is clearly not trying to replace it.
Thanks for another great video. I'll never get my players to change games but I'll must likely get Shadow Dark to read for myself.
When it comes to gold in game I always liked ensuring players had to pay for level training. This used up gold (1k * level) and sometimes the players had to hold off on getting that bump till a later session or other party members would chip in burning gold across entire party.
Wow. My current campaign is probably 1 session from level 5. My Paladin has been saving for Plate from level one and currently has 1149gold. If your players can afford to level at those prices no wonder you need to burn gold.
That's better than AD&D 1st edition (DMG page 86). If those rules were being used, characters would be constantly broke and constantly behind in leveling up as they wouldn't be able to acquire gold fast enough to pay for training, especially if they weren't playing their class "correctly".
@@vederianl9723 I did balance their gold economy accordingly. For them to feel like they earned something substantial but have the drain was a balancing act. To be fair it’s all relative anyway. 😉
I can't wait for my copy to come in!
I KNEW IT! Deathbringer is a fellow Janeite!
This showed up on my feed again. The cameo by Deathbringer is still hilarious.
I think Baron describes my exact experience with Shadowdark in this very video, more or less to the letter.
The game sounds pretty good. Most of the things listed I have been enjoying in Dungeon Crawl Classics for years though. Im still going to pick up a copy and give it a go to see if it feels any different.
I started RPGs as an adult, I entirely agree with the issue of 5e's approachability. It took me several months to understand almost anything that was happening, even with online resources and the help of other players.
In a few months I will be starting the next 5e campaign with my group. Another member is running their own campaign at the moment.
I would love a video on large scale tactical combat. Especially large scale "theater" or "regional wide tactical naval combat.
The rules do not have to be from 5e or even the same style as it is going to be somewhat separate. But I think this is going to be tons of fun.
🤭 just like to give a big shout out to the Baron-thanks buddy for your gifts , of well ,YOU KNOW:) lol !
Ah,yea thanks for letting me in on It-its so easy to miss this type of play,for years..and so simply put... But if it had been a snake -it would have bit me!
Right before my eyes.
Oh man I am so interested in that! Since I want to try my hand at DMing this video really got me raring to go play haha
This might be exactly what i have been looking for. I hate the number crunching of dnd but I'm too lazy to switch systems completely; this seems like it could be the solution, as I'm also going to start a new game with some newbie players.
how is it the same system other than it uses a d20?
Hey Baron, could you do a video/series on the duties and responsibilities of the different nobel ranks, and what kind of achievements would be required for each to be promoted to a higher rank.
How do you count spells known on each level when the player keeps rolling the 10-11 result to learn additional spells? Is it the number of spells in the table plus one, or is it the number of spells in the table plus however many times they rolled the 'learn additional spell' result? Or is the table cumulative, i.e will a 2nd level wizard know 7 (+1) spells?
Baron - you are the MAN! I would LOVE to learn how to convert 1e adventures to Shadowdark playable stats!
Just run as written!!! DC 12 or 18 if it is hard. Add level to the save roll for the monster.
Same type of character advancement first seen on Zak Smith's blog years ago. Always thought that was a cool way to level up
Hey, Humanities decrees catching strays here! :p
+1 for the Deathbringer guest cameo :)
Love the coma/0 hp system in Shadowdark! Great new way to do the 2nd Ed mechanic.
I backed Shadowdark on Kickstarter, but haven't had a chance to run it yet. This makes me even more excited to do so! P.S. I completely lost it at the "special guest cameo". ;-)
As far as excessive gold in AD&D 1st edition, you might want to look at the page 86 of the Dungeon Masters Guide to see the the costs to train up to a new level. It was so expensive that certain classes would constantly be behind in leveling up because they didn't have enough gold once they earned enough XP to level up, especially for the first few levels.
Just bought Shadowdark and look forward to using this system.
Thanks for the overview!
A man who likes Pride & Prejudice AND Conan? A most worthy gentleman.
In ttrpgs, I'm learning less is more in character creation options. New players especially begin to see what is on their character sheet as how they interact with the world, and forget that they can do just about anything. They forget about using simple tools, or that their environment can respond in interesting ways, because instead they think only about how a specific spell or ability works.
Just "RPG".
Looks fun. I'm tempted to check out a few of these new wave of osr games, as I'd definitely like a lightweight alternative to 5e for introducing new players. Has anyone made a Skill and point buy version ala one role engine and storyteller? Most of the lighter games I've seen seem very focused on class and level (which is the first thing I'd scrap to improve d&d for my table), or else lean right into pbta move based game design? I guess i want a "middle school revival" taking the best of early 2000s game design rather than looking back to the old school al the time!
I expected a set of mods or house rules, this imo is another game. But fun for new players and nice for experienced ones to draw inspiration from.
I have been waiting for the physical books before reading it. It's been torture seeing the pdf on my computer. Lol.
"Crom forbid..." Lol
I've incorporated several rules from Shadowdark into my Old School Essentials campaign. Especially the death mechanic. Much more fun for my players. (also Dungeon Crawl Classics' spellcasting tables, but I handle all that behind the screen, just instructing the Mage player to tell me which spell they're casting and to roll, I do all the work for them). Excellent flow.
+1 for Deathbringer cameo.
1d20 add your proficiency bonus if proficient and then add your ability score modifier. How hard can it be. I say that 20 times a game
I've been playing 5e almost since it came out, and my record for character creation time is *still* half an hour.
Looks like an ICRPG mod of 5e which I'm all for
Rolling for character creation only adds to the fun for some; how fun, and whether or not it is fun at all.
Many of us hate that kind of randomness, especially if we want a long-term campaign.
This is not to say Shadowdark is bad. It isn't some objective fix to D&D however (5e or otherwise).
If 5e is too hard for target auditory of the game, i guess, i m done with D&D... I dont wanna see it turning into something like Blackbird Pie (i mean, BBP is super... i just want BBP to be BBP and D&D to stay as D&D)
This is great baron your videos are amazing would love to see you talk about or do comparsion videos to 5e or your views on other rpg systems been working on my own rpg. Maybe you might talking about how great the game i design is 😂
@1:01 Deathbringer! crossover!