What is the Best Maxim Gun? (with John Keene)
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- Опубликовано: 20 апр 2024
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Today, Ian is talking to John Keene, NFA specialist for Morphy Auctions. The question is, what is the best model of Maxim gun? Whether it's for a recreation shooter or a historical enthusiast, there are some models that are better than others...
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Perhaps the best maxim is the one we made along the way
Clever girl
There's a special place in hell for "we made along the way" commenters. That said I still laugh at it though.
1st rule about Improvised Garage Maxims: SHUT IT.
no because none of the parts quite fit
This comment works as well as the Vickers 😂
The famous Hiram Maxim quote on why he abandoned chemistry and electricity to design armaments: "I was in Vienna, where I met an American whom I had known in the States. He said: 'Hang your chemistry and electricity! If you want to make a pile of money, invent something that will enable these Europeans to cut each other’s throats with greater facility.'"
If I could wish myself a Maxim it'd be the one with the most polished brass on it.
Good luck paying for the ammo.
@@PieterBredabuy a Breda instead he says 😅
Wrong magazine
Boer War version is all cast iron and brass!
@@chinesesparrowsas a teenager I know I polished my brass to Maxim 😂
I recall reading of an account of the time when the British army was moving from 303 to 7.62. Someone decided to use up a million rounds of obsolete 303. So, they got a water cooled Vickers and fired it all off with, as I recall, zero problems. I do remember that they used snow shovels to move the spent brass.
Yeah Ian also mentioned this one time
And aside from obviously the barrels they burned through no measurable wear on the rest of the gun afterward. It's sheer reliability was by far its most lauded and loved feature
@@darthkarl99not even the barrels really, at least not nearly as much wear as an air cooled gun. The water cooling is really good for cutting down on barrel wear.
5 million rounds fired over 7 days swaped barrels every 3k rnds gun ran fine and was in spec
@@chemistryofquestionablequa6252the rifle it would be worn out but in terms of changing the barrel because of warping isn’t a thing
Jonathan Ferguson:
"I told you, ....Ian"
*Take a sip of a tea cup as sign of victory*
You misspelled his name, its Johnathan Fergusson, Keeper of Firearms and Artillery at the Royal Armories Museum in the UK
@@norsethenomad5978 Which houses a collection of iconic weapons from throughout history.
To this day, "08/15" is a german slang for "a standard version that everybody has one of".
Null-Acht-Fünfzehn
'strich acht' actually, i believe
Can u use it in sentence as an example so people who try to learn german can use it?
@@robertkalinic335 "Ich habe mir heute einen Fernseher geleistet, so ein OLED-Modell, richtig schick, nicht so ein _null-acht-fünfzehn_-Gerät."
"Today I splurged on a new TV set, an OLED model and stylish to boot, so it's not your _typical, run-of-the-mill_ device."
@@nonsquarepixels danke schön
Chauchat just casually chilling in the background…. Goddamn they have cool stuff there
Two Chauchats right next to each other, at that
Need follow up video "What is the best Chauchat?" for someone that wants a magdumper.
@@Chaosrain112 it’s just rare, I don’t think it’s a good gun.
@@Chaosrain112 the better one is the belgium one... it ain't and wasn't much but it was better. That being said if you used your french chauchat as semi auto rifle during ww1 from the trenches, you really had superb gun
As a younger gun enthusiast i have basically given up hope that I'll ever be able to afford any NFA item, but man would I love to have a Maxim, it's such an icon
Machine guns are definitely on the high-priced end of things, but suppressors and SBRs are definitely in the range of "possible" if you can afford a gun or two a year. A suppressor costs about as much as a moderate-priced firearm, plus two hundred just to smack you in the gut.
Never give up hope. There absolutely will be people your age who will one day own Maxim guns, maybe not many but it would be a fallacy to think they won’t exist, and perhaps the only thing they all will have in common is that they all believed along the way they could
The thing is - if you are in the military - automatic weapons are firing ammunition paid for by the government. If you are not in the military - YOU - are paying for that ammunition.
So - for the average person - you're not an average person if you can afford to buy and use machine guns.
.
The question should have been "Which Vickers gun is the best Maxim?"
@@user-xk8mq5ic9k Hey, I just comment here. You need to take this up with management if it is so important. Hint, it isn't.
I've met Mr. Keene a few times at Morphy's, great guy, very knowledgeable. Got two of my three belt feds from Morphy's, (MG 08/15 Maxim and Browning 1919A4). Plus a Vickers Mk I from Midwest Tactical. Agreed, great video. Look for a MG 08 Maxim right now. My dream Maxim? Finish made or captured 1910 Russian snow cap with the 1909 commercial mount. I'm with Ian on this one. Winter War/War of Continuation classic! If you want to learn more, get Dolf Goldsmith's books, all of them. Became friends with Mr. Goldsmith over the years. He gave me a master class of Maxim maintenance at Knob Creek when I told him I was getting my 08/15. I was the third person to put money down on his last book, (And there is a great story how that came about. Ian, I'll tell you that one if I ever meet you). The last time I spook to him before he passed, I told his I was getting the 1919 and read what he wrote to me in "Browning Machine Guns Vol. 1" We had a good laugh, wow do I miss that guy.
What do you do for a living?
@@curiousentertainment3008 Train conductor/National Guard Infantry NCO. Some of those army bonuses have come in handy.
"Back in my day we could buy bullets for a Nickle!" Ok John, settle down. Lol
And my kids would say "and you could buy a car for $75. Yeah, yeah, heard it before, Grandpa. Time for your nap."
That's right up there with "back in the day, an SKS was $20. They were practically giving them away by the crate!" Gotta love Fudd lore
@@chrisyungeberg6978 How about "if the hardware store was out of change, they would just give you an M1 Carbine or two."
@@chrisyungeberg6978 Never saw 1 for $20, but did see them for $60 many a time. and cheapest car I ever bought was a Austin Healy 63 Sprite for $35, had a bad clutch, then I stripped the copper starter bolt and had to buy a new starter, the starter was $95, lol.
I can remember when All those things were cheap.
When I was in High School - I and my buddies were all in a Jr. ROTC unit - and we used to go camping and shooting on a regular basis. We'd drive out into the hills or the desert and shoot a bunch of different WWII weapons - and yeah - the ammo was $0.05 a round.
They had millions of rounds from WWI - not to mention hundreds of millions of rounds from WWII. The ammo was cheap and the guns were cheap.
Not Today.
Of course - you can't go shooting in the places we went then - there are to many people around. There are States you can still walk out onto your back porch and shoot but there are States where you used to be able to do that - but can't any more.
We all went in the military - but - when we got out - we took a trip out to the desert where we used to go. It was horrible. All the dirt was powdered inches deep from all the dune buggies and dirt bikes. And you're breathing that dust.
I remember about 0400 - I got up - and I could just see the top of the dust cloud from the previous day settling.
Never again.
.
The Vickers is very historically significant too, given it served in both world wars and a bit beyond
And since you rated it as No.1 for practicality, there's a strong argument to get one
maybe dig into the archives and find a specific example that went all over the place
The Vickers machine gun and research association here in the U.K. can probably help you with that. The collection holds a number of examples that are both "well travelled" and have unique and intetesting histories.
Ian used to own one. He sold it because he found it a bit Null-Acht-Fünfzehn. Or rather, he found it boring.
Whatever happens, we have got,
The Maxim gun and they have not
Battle of Omdurman comes to mind 🤔
And then WW1 happened, where everybody had a Maxim or equivalent of it.
"The wild Ingubu with the fierce Imbezu on the right
Came charging from the northern bush, they were a fearful sight
And near 6000 warriors - we stopped them on the run
The bravest of the brave could never match the Maxim gun."
There’s a One-Pounder Pom Pom just sitting out in the elements at a park in Bridgton, Maine.
I thought it was a comically large display statue until I looked into it.
As to ammo: Dolf goldsmith once told me they used to buy CONEX boxes full of ammo. Three rounds for a PENNY! "If you can find an ammo deal better than that...SHOOT IT!" (Yes, I just paraphrased Cheech Marin's speech from, "From Dusk till Dawn").😁
The best Maxim Gun is the one on your side.
South Africa converted a number of its .303 British Vickers to 7,62x51 starting about 1973. A disintegrating belt called the R1M1 Vickers was designed and was also used in converted FN MAG 58's (reclassified as MAG79) and the new SS77.They were in use until the end of the Border War in the late 1980's.
I'd still like more info on them. Used for base security while the MAG 58 went into the bush.
For me the QF one pounder Maxim would be the dream.
I'm fond of Maxim magazines. Oft overlooked accessories for the fighting men!
I’d say quite a few examples have been present in war zones during the 90s/early 2000s!
One of my biggest regrets is my failure to purchase a .30-06 Vickers when Sarco had some (with accessories, tripods, belt loaders, etc.) for sale back in the early 80s.
I have never seen a video on the M1917 Eddystone 30-06. I have a very custom sporterised one, but in the 50's many got used to make .375 H&H's and other massive calibres as the M1917 utilised an oversized, high nickel long throw action. They where a military rifle made in a number of factories, but there seems to be little in the way of videos on them.
i`d pick any air craft mounted maxim. Fokkers interrupter gear enabled the machine gun to be used to its potential and
it completely opened up the air to be a battlefield for both sides and not just one taking a look or dropping something from up there.
the significance of air power in historical or recent conflicts cant be overstated.
There's one at the upcoming Morph's auction. Go for it!
@@user-sn5nh7md5o i live in germany so winning billions with a gas station lottery ticket is more likely than me ever being permitted to own automatic weapons.
@@AlexHalt100 You can always move to the U.S.!
@@user-sn5nh7md5oor Switzerland
@@user-sn5nh7md5o benefits of that do not outweigh the downsides
Vickers is best variant of Maxim as it soldiered over 50 years and machine guns have been changing a lot. Personally best variant is M32-33 used by FDF which was modernized Russian Maxim.
I'm glad that John Keene doesn't disagree with himself that often. I was rolling with laughter, thanks Ian for keeping that in. :D
THANKS, it was SO interesting!
Among the Maxims showed by Ian over the years, the COOLEST FOR ME was by far the 1909 from ARGENTINA, n°64 (of 120), with A LOT of BRASS, 1889 pattern of lock, and its WOODEN roller for the belt!
I would never be able to own one, but if I could chose, it would be THAT one, maybe because it is so… exotic.
And maybe with a smaller death toll than the German or Russian Maxims that were "put to work" so much…
Easiest: Vickers
Most historical: Vickers (2 world wars and through into the 60s, unlike the MG08). You could certainly argue for the 1910, for sheer longevity, as you say, but... accessibility!
08 maxim and Chinese 8mm maxims were used all the way through the Vietnam war.
Reading the video's title, my answer was, "But of course, it's the Vickers!"
Rule Britannia!
Weird, my answer was "well of course, it's the MG08"
Heil dir im Siegerkranz 😅
Ian is slowly turning from being a Francophile into a Finland enthusiast...(sorry I dont know the equivalent of francophile for Finland lol)
Fennophile would be the word.
Suomophile?
Maybe a Finophile.
Finnophile?
When i read the title i whispered to myself "The swiss Mg11 must be mentioned" and i was not disappointed. Nice informative video !!
Ian, John thank you for providing us with such fascinating insight to one of the most famous guns in history and for giving us your answer to one of the most widespread questions among gun enthusiasts and i agree that the best Maxim machine gun is the Vickers for all the reasons you specified.
Thanks guys. That was fascinating.
.
As a non American my understanding of the question was a purely historical one, clearly the American understanding of the question is 'which one should I buy'. Funny.
Asking "which machinegun should I buy" is the _slightly_ cheaper version of "which Ferrari should I buy." There are plenty of MGs for sale, just like there are plenty of Ferraris for sale, but it's not like the average person is in that echelon of buyer.
@@moosemaimer I'm a regular joe with MG #10 coming. What do you do for a living? How much can you save? Do you waste money on non-sense B.S., (drugs, alcohol, tobacco, tattoos)? You can do it if you really want it. They're fun and everyone has gone up in value. Remember this. "If you don't buy it today, you will buy it tomorrow, but for more money!"
@@user-sn5nh7md5odon’t take this the wrong way but based on how you typed that are you part of the baby boomer generation?
On a more serious note you either have to have a job that pays 6 figures a year, have a paid off house and a decent paying job, inheritance, lottery, theft, or becoming a special occupational taxpayer which is still expensive but can be cheaper than just buying a machine gun.
Greetings from Hungary!
I think Mr Keene should write a comprehensive book about the Maxim guns.
Some Vickers guns were made in 30/06 for the US in WW1.
I had a Colt made belt loader. 😊
37mm Maxim FTW with lots of brass!
Why did the new video have comments turned off?
Should have had Larry Vickers on the for this one.
Get it? Vickers?
I'll show myself out.
He's not going to be doing anything firearms related for a good while...
Yea he's now property of the department of corrections
Here's your coat
What happened to him?Apologies I'm not in the Loop with what has happened.
@@davidspence5567 I had no idea either. I just googled it. "pleaded guilty in October to two federal crimes including a conspiracy to import illegal machine guns." 😦
It's our boy John! Always great to see your face and gain your insight sir!
Always good when Mr. Keene is on.
We need more videos like this
What a nice video, it becomes relaxed and interesting when knowledgeable people don't have to prove anything to each other or the audience. The best Maxim has to be the one that has tons of ammo and I have access to.
"commodity"? A commodity is a good that all the units are interchangeable. One box of XXX is the same as another box of XXX. A bushel of wheat is the same no matter what farm it came from. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the ammunition availability issue described in the video.
20 year anniversary? Aw man. I've been there 5 times so far, along with Knob Creek 4 times before they stopped. This next October shoot will be just on the edge on whether or not I can make it out there. Shoot!
I am saddened that whenever Maxims are talked about people talk about the Vickers, maybe German and/or Soviet versions and/or some obscure Elbonian variant, & that no-one ever mentions the Finnish M/32-33: take Russian M/1910 Maxims, put optics mounts on them, mate them with dual-purpose tripods developed from the German tripod, boost the rate of fire to 850 rpm & add a snow cap to the water jacket, that last one is especially painful as 11 times out of ten it is associated with the Soviets during WWII.
AND whenever a Finnish Maxim is spotted in a video or a photo, it's identified as either a Soviet or a German gun because XYZ.
Roger my bud, I feel the same way. One of those is my dream Maxim. If you find one, send it over here. I'll keep you in Vodka for a long time! 😂🤣
Everyone has a favourite maxim and keeps arguing whose is best. Why can't people just get along?
@@herptek where exactly did I say the word "favorite"?
@@hullutsuhna I guess I have a clumsy sense of humor.
"What is the Best Maxim Gun?" Answer: Trick question. Browning M1917.
John Browning, "Maxim patented everything, so I'll do it with less parts." British and French machine gunners when they first see the Browning, "How can this thing work, it doesn't have enough parts!"
Thanks, as always "very interesting"!😊
The best Maxim is the one you're carrying when the mugger shows up!
Do you know your North American 1911 video has been turned off comments?
I went back to watch Ian's 2016 video on the Vickers Heavy Machine Gun. I had forgotten how annoying it was to continually adjust the volume up and down because the gunfire was so much louder than the speaking.
The Vickers or the 1910/30 were what I was going to choose based on success and longevity were what I was going to say. That wheeled mount is so etching special.
It's insane to think about how this design has taken as as many lives as it has.
The schematics and drafts haven’t fired a single round.
Or conversely saved as many lives from being lost when used defensively. How you see things can change what you see.
Truly the Devil's Paintbrush.
I read somewhere years ago that no individual small arm has killed more people than the maxim gun.
@@itsconnorstime Crew served weapons like mortars, artillery, and heavy machine guns have always been the real casualty producers. I wouldn't be surprised if the FN MAG and its derivatives have killed half as many as the Maxim.
In the official central american history about wars between states and goverments is used to say that the first time machine guns were used happened to be in Namasigüe, Honduras, in 1905, when nicaraguan troops used four Maxim to swipe all the honduran combatants...
What kind of Maxim probably was used in that time?
Have you ever done a Pachmyr Dominator conversion? I have one.
I like the Vickers primarily because it was in that movie "Last Stand"
If I remember correctly Ian said his first machine gun was a Vickers.
He did own one, you see it on early channel vids - but if I recall he sold it on years ago.
I've got a question if you could find the material that the belts were made from could you sew your own.
No need, still lots of belts out there. As Dolf Goldsmith said, Maxims run fine with 1917/1919 cloth belts. You can get reproduction belts from SARCO for as low as $10.95!
@@user-sn5nh7md5o That's good to know. I was worried about damaging belts that were over a 100 years old
@@ConnorMainwold The Assault Drum for my 08/15 came with an original German 100 rds belt. still works fine as does all my other WW1&2 belts. We're not slopping through muddy trenches today, they'll be fine.
This is a question another one of your videos brought to mind but why aren’t all modern rifles bullpup?
I understand cartridges to the face, trigger issues, re-training, maybe a bit awkward in certain positions, but these all seem minor compared to the benefits. I also feel like many of these issues have been solved in certain bullpup designs.
I’m no expert so just throwing out a video idea!
I bought a Turkish Mauser 22 years ago. The rifle was $40, i bought a 1440rd crate of 8mm Mauser on stripper clips and in 70rd bandoliers for $70 (i think). I still have some ammo left along with the rifle.
America, during the Spanish American War, what Maxim
Brought to you by Chad Gatling Gang
Potato Digger gang rise up!
Hiram Maxim Stevens Invented that Gun since 1884 :)
British colonial theory: Whatever happens we have got, the Maxim Gun, and they have not.
"…And near 6000 warriors - we stopped them on the run
The bravest of the brave could never match the Maxim gun…" 😄
Battle of Omdurman comes to mind 🤔
The Maxim was revered by the Russians. There is a jaunty Red Army song titled "Dva Maksima" (Two Maxims).
They also have a song called “Tachanka” which is about a horse-drawn Maxim machine gun cart.
I learn from the internet that it's about a Maxim gunner called Maxim! Who gets wounded. But he recovers, and so does the Maxim.
I'm always amazed at how knowledgeable Stanley Tucci is on machine guns...
I’ve always wanted to see a modern biathlon rifle. Starting with the Norwegian Army in the 18th century to a modern olympic rifle sport originating and surviving in the concept of a foot soldier in snow is so wild to me
TY guys. Now wasn.t there a German Maxim heavily modified for aerial use..AND it was the lightest, smallest Maxim design ever made....why no mention of that gun ? or was this a plug for Vickers, which is a fine gun too.
I was really hoping this was going to be a Project Farm colab video... 😂
Hmm? Gun Dude's knows another "GUN DUDE!" Perfect, Good Job. VERY HONEST! God Bless!
Most soft-spoken master sergeant EVER!!!!
The Vickers. The end.
Best maxim has gotta be The pom pom. 37mm explosive warhead beltfed.
I’d like a Quad PM1910 aa mount.
MG with more historical impact: maxim or Browning?
I was hoping for the best Maxim for military service, although Ian did already proclaim the Swiss version to be that.
The Maxim is certainly an intersting and long lasting design
The Brass Argentinian Maxim, it may not have the historical context as some of the others but doggone is it beautiful, now if only I can convince the wife to let me do a reverse mortgage on the house hahahahahahaha!
Top ten... not bad for a DFSW Lance Corporal
Personally, I would go with the MG08/18 air cooled Maxim. Lighter and more soldier friendly
Yeah. The German Maxim used as air cooled, for aerial combat is the actual lightest Maxim ever built. Also the smallest/shortest Maxim ever built.
7:12 But couldn’t it be argued that the 1904 Maxim is historically significant for what it didn’t accomplish? The production issues meant the US ultimately didn’t buy that many, which paved the way for John Browning’s M1917 and M1919 later on. And the rest, as they say, is history.
What, now I need to get some gray hair! That's fine with me. All your Maxims belong to me!
I need to build a giant berm on the farm to replace knob creek 😂
I would say the best maxim is the one I can afford....unfortunately those don't exist
If you try, you can. How much do you want it/what are you willing to give up?
Any British South Africa company maxims used to fight in Rhodesia left??
My dear old Dad, whose regiment lost their horses in Syria/Transjordan area in around 1943,was trained briefly on the Vickers .303. He said it was fine, but too accurate-it would carry on punching the same hole in anything but traversing it was a swine- he thought it would have been much better if it just sprayed a bit more !
You want to get a copy of ‘Fighting Vichy on Horseback’ for the full story of British cavalry in Syria, Iraq and Iran in 1941-3.
@@johnfisk811 Thanks very much for that- I will look for a copy. Much appreciated.
The Vickers with its sexy iconic fluted water jacket
Whats Knob Creek ?
Until recently, it was the biggest (by far) machine gun shoot in the country.
10:19 and then took the COUNTRIES, that was kinda of the problem lol
Being British and the fact my grandad worked for Vickers, so yeah I agree.
The Australian late model Vickers.
Having serviced, shot and repaired all of these I agree Vickers is #1. The Early 1909s are usually nice because on the market they usually well preserved and complete. Type 24 are okay except Chineseium and parts tolerance and no two thread pitches are the same. 1910 is usually alright but usually made of mixed bag war, post war and commercial parts. German maxims I hate. 08/15s in particular. Nothing is adjustable and intact feed arms are becoming a rarity. give me a 1917 any day over a Maxim.
You can adjust the fusse on the MG 08/15. Don't know what you're talking about there? Mine runs like a top.
@@user-sn5nh7md5o headspace and timing. Changing out internals of locks. Firing pins tend to break and they're basically hand fit.
@@saltybones8492 I have several locks/feed blocks for mine and have used all interchangeably. Yes, the German locks have a fixed head spacing, but their tolerances are tight. No, they were not even close to being hand fit. Maybe you worked on one that was in bad shape, but I've run quite a few, (I shoot with Charly Erb a couple times a year), and the most I've done is adjust the fusse spring. Maybe I've just been real lucky.
the undisputed BEST maxim is the 2005 december catalog
Knob creek make me think Jim Beam.
"World's Biggest Machine Gun Shoot" West Point, KY. I was there most of the last 20 years they had it...Minus deployment. But I guess i was still playing with machine guns!
Didn't Ian used to have a Vikers gun?
For those so financially inclined, there's a Vickers Mk1 for sale at autoweapons.
I miss the annual Hiram Maxim Shoot in Maine.
A quick way to burn your money.
So why did knob creek shoot stop??
The older guys wanted to retire and the younger generation taking over the range didn't want to do the work. So now it is just a gun range. No big events at all. I bet they miss the huge payday twice a year.
@@keithdecker3428 The daughter of one of the founders is working to get a new one going, they talked about it on the C&Rsenal podcast a while back.
The couple that owned the range had doon it twice a year for fifty years. The kids still own the range, but the cost of insurance for the event is ridicules. They are still trying to work something out, fingers crossed!
Tell you this younger generation is all me me me but don't want to put in the work and hate up front money when it pays off in the Long run.
"Whatever happens, we have got, the Maxim, and they have not"
Finnish maxims:
ruclips.net/video/G2z7whVtyX4/видео.htmlsi=HrbXLKl_teXhwY_F
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_M/32-33
It’s definitely the one that you could wish all others act according to.
Hi Al
Which Maxim is best Maxim?
My Maxim is best because it won the Great War!
No, my Maxim is best because water-cooling delete!
No, my Maxim is best because kinda sorta portable by one man and also it lost the Great War!
My Maxim is best tripod!
No, my tripod is best Maxim!
The box said 300 round belt.
My Maxim is best because new booster looking like booster delete.
My Maxim is best because can be repaired in the field.
Which Maxim is best Maxim?
My Maxim is best Maxim because RRRAAARRRREEEEEEE
I think the best Maxim is the Maxim one could get his hands on.
My Maxim is best because BO KNOWS MOTORBOATIN'!
I'm glad someone else though of this immediately. Great work hahaha
My Maxim is best Maxim because Vickers
The box said 10 more rounds per minute
My Maxim is best Maxim because I brought it on a trailer
*brass Maxim* BROWWWWWNNN