I'd say this is basically the only real reason in "business" terms; when they actually get paid. I've worked in music industry and it's the same. Brands will "sponsor" someone new by giving them products and having them in their websites, but the REAL pros of the business are the artists who are getting paid, because they sell tickets, music, merch, etc. The ones who still get deals with major labels. In skateboarding those would be the skaters that compete, have great video parts and at least decent social media presence.
Being a skateboarder from the early 90's, it's insane the level that skateboarding has gotten to. Looking back at old 411 video takes I have is odd. Because comparing someone like Mike Vallely to some of these new kids is like night and day.
@FrankbyFrank Whats crazy is I won a drawing from zumiez back in 96 and got to go skate with him for a couple days. It was badass. Got to meet Chad Muska also on that trip.
Remember the euro 96 vid (I think) where the obstacle was a taxi in the middle with kickers around it and Mike v started full on elbow dropping the car 😂😂 good times
Little known fun fact: MJ was never an am. My friend was launching a new company at the time (Maple) and needed a roster of pros for the ASR trade show debut. So MJ was pro right out of the gate nearly 30 years ago.
‘Going pro’ use to follow a major contest win. That approach was abandoned many, many years ago. Also, pro for Primitive is a very different thing to pro for almost any other board company these days.
Great upload, Filipe Mota definitely is a pro skater in my mind, just based on the spots hes hit up and the trick selection, dude is obviously pro. Nowadays, I feel it's more about who has an audience or fanbase built up, like do you have lots of IG followers, RUclips subscribers etc. Cause having those metrics is what convinces companies you can sell lots of product
I think for a lot of companies, especially ones with mostly adults and lesser talent on the high end of their riders, the only difference between pro and Am is name value. No matter how good you are, if nobody knows you, nobody is going to buy the board with your name on it.
I think if skaters can build a brand, they become major assets to their sponsors. You don't have to do a 540 flip down Hollywood 16...just have dope video parts, do well in contests, have a solid RUclips channel and always be reppin your sponsors products.
to me, control is what separates ams from pros. when you see a professional skate, its evident by how naturally they're able to control their board and body.
i watched ur channel back in 2021 and stopped skating after that winter since cuz i forgot about it but now i got back into it thanks to u ma boy thanks and keep it up
This is my actual example of ….. how does this pro thing work then??? But I think maybe Zach is so technically good that it’s….. boring? Must be an image thing or something?
@@greenthirteen1234 We don't need anymore "Gators" or Terry Kennedys. These little Idiots out looting 7-11's need to go too. 7-11's are the Only thing Open during storms.
As someone who hasn't skated in a very long time, can you explain the difference between pro and amateur in the context of skating? In other sports like climbing for example, there are pros who compete indoors on the comp scene and also pro climbers who climb outdoors and are sponsored. Anyone that is sponsored is considered a pro since they get paid to climb and make a living from it, how is someone that is sponsored not considered a pro? Do they just not make that much money to make it a career in the way a pro would?
in skateboarding ams are people on the team that get product and paid. a pro is usually someone who gets paid more and in a board company they’d essentially get rewarded with a pro model board usually a board with their graphic choice with their name on it, and whenever the board sells theyd get a very small sum of the money from it (its small because making boards is expensive and not the most profitable.) also the pro is definitely more representative of the company itself then an am is (imo) this is the way that i understand it at least.
@@itsnotcris4742 Ahhhh so they not only get paid more they also get royalties from their own products basically? That makes sense, thank you for the response I was curious how it works.
It's a flow stance between being able to utilize a sponsor box. If your an am that keeps breaking a board twice a day and asking for another set of trucks the next day.. You get the picture. Timelapse.
Zach Doelling will continuing to developing his potential of skating and strength to providing some handrails and similar to a Tiago Lemos or Andrew Reynolds?!
Creating a skate team is just like creating a boy band - talent has less to do with it than personality and marketability. How many pros are or have been movie or TV stars? Just off hand I can think of Jason Lee, Rob Dyrdek, Rick McCrank, Chris Roberts, etc... How many are known for how "cool" they are? Heath Kirchart, Chad Muska, etc... The cute ones? Sean Malto, etc.. you could go on and on, but each team needs to have these different personalities to make it work - just like a K-pop group.
1000 percent. Imagine if sheckler wasn’t that teenbeat dreamboat character. Or if bam wasn’t an unpredictable dickhead at times. We probably wouldn’t have heard of them in the mainstream.
You do street and park mostly, not trying to define you. I like to watch all of it. Freestyle, hill bombing longboard, etc. My favorite skating activity to do right now is being pulled behind a bicycle with a retractable dog leash hooked to the seat. The sky is the limit if you decide to be creative.
Some skaters are really good and kill it but there might be something I don’t like. Style really matters to me but you can’t be a chump either. Have fun!
I think you forgot about the most important part: market value. If company is going to invest in a skater - they need to be sure the investment will pay off. So skills/bag of tricks I think might be even less important than let's say "popularity" or "marketing potential".
It’s weird cos at my local skatepark we have like 2 50 year olds who come and skate regularly and are better than some RUclipsrs almost ask good as pros and they’re just there
How motivated is the individual, Whilst being open to new risks & new terrain. Creating a large appetite or major self doubt. Keep surprising yourselves.
The difference is actually just competition ranking. You can be the skateboard God but until you win some titles and make some money, they won't consider you a "professional"
I think it’s probably just putting your time in and proving yourself, like the level Ginwoo skates at now, if anyone else did at 20 or something, would be pro, but he’s a kid and he’s only just showed up I’d put money on him being pro for Jart in the next six months
With all due respect; you’re 100000% wrong on this subject. It has nothing to do with who can pop higher or who skates rails instead of ledges. It’s the skaters marketability. That’s all it comes down to. Who’s got the most eyes on them to move the most product. Sure skill plays a good factor but at their level it doesn’t matter what obstacles they skate or how high they can pop. It’s all about who’s gonna make money for the company. Simple.
Nah a ton of pro skateboarders are introverts. Trick selection is the most important thing for a pro. Like we just saw with trent mcclung, he did a switch bigspin backtail sw heelfip out and those are the kind of tricks everyone wants to see. Thats what really sells the brand.
The level of nuance that distinguishes an actual skill level "pro" from the skateboarding industry title of pro has a lot of people confused by your stance lol. Understandably so because it's not an easy topic to cover or a simple title to define in skateboarding. Some people are pro as heck, but not pro by title. And some people are pro by title, but not near as good as random Japanese 8 year olds on Instagram. For this reason, the nuance is strong that it's impossible to properly define 🤔
Interesting 🤔🤔🤔 I always assumed it was just putting in your time. Getting recognition. It's becoming very hard to tell the difference between Pros & Ams these days.
It's also the fact that pros have to be about 75% bionic, meaning they need to have some parts of their body made out of metal and need to eat a special kind of cheerios that is pure metal and quartz. JK just wanted to take up space
I think the real question is WHY are they pro or am? Skateboarding is a business and the idea is to make money for the brand. So yes, they have to have talent, but at the end of the day it’s all marketing. If you can sell a board/shoes/clothes, etc… that is what ultimately matters. Look at Bam from the early 2000’s. He outsold everybody and barely skated. There was a tooon of more talented skaters, but he was pro. My 2 cents. 🤷🏻♂️
yeah but many dont know what they are looking for. They are all psych and vibe of this sport now olympic but many dont know what is all about going out the streets and skate.
I've been skating 22 years now. Board graphics now a days are literal garbage I don't think companies are even trying anymore. And when those "pro" park skaters start hitting the streets Maybe I'll take a look lol
If a skater like Mota is sponsored and in all the big competitions, what's the real difference tho? Isn't it just a label? Mota is literally on the same playing field as the so-called pros. I just don't see the difference. He may as well be pro. Like, what would even change for Mota once they slap that label on him? He's already doing everything the so-called pros get to do.
tiago is like 5’3” so idk lol. all three am’s are definitely bigger than him already, but that’s just one of your points. i just don’t fully agree w that one
@@JohnHill i kind of assumed by “growing up” you meant height. i know you mentioned strength but idk that strength is that different between an 18 year old & 24 year old male.
@@dunk1089 It definitely is, your athletic prime is in your late 20s so it would kind of make sense that you would be stronger in your mid-late 20s than as a teenager. (Just to be clear, I haven't skated in over 20 years and I've just recently started to get interested in it again so I'm speaking in general fitness terms, I have no idea how this correlates to skating but I'm guessing as a very physical sport it probably plays a role? I have no idea lol)
@@dunk1089 I'm talking about your athletic prime, as in purely your physical prime where your strength will fully develop which is in your mid to late 20s, not your pure performance prime, sorry I don't think I was clear about that.
Normally do pretty good, but you completely missed the mark on the whole vid. Strength has nothing to do with it, this isn’t a bench press competition. Most of it is something that can’t be measured but the teams know when it’s time. You haven’t been in skating long enough or you are learning from the wrong time in skating. For instance, you are good & you technically get paid for skating but in the real world of skating, you are not pro. I’ll give you pro-am, that’s what my career was like myself. Re-do this vid after more thought
You're saying your skate career is similar to johns? You can't say that and not have any clips to back it up. John could have gone pro for actual companies but he wanted to do RUclips and not focus as much on being pro. He was on birdhouse and had parts on transworld. If I had the choice I woulda chose the same as him.
no one asked you that question stop playing. This is a topic John has soft launched many times in the past. Anyways just came here after GH latest vid about primitive and the two perspectives can not be more different
![Chino Pacas - Modo Capone (with Drake & Fuerza Regida) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zjv8TQ0gBkg/mqdefault.jpg)
The difference is that one of them can kickflip front blunt bigspin out 9 out of 10 times... and the other one is Nyjah.
😂 down a 15 stair handrail 🙃
It's also his 9th out of 10 tricks total
Fair point but I’ve seen nyjah do some things that i really can’t name one other person could do
Falling is part of skating, he’s been doing it a long time
Not his fault Ginwoo is just utterly ridiculous
, nyjahs still one of the best in the world
@@jamiemckelvie342 oh yeah I’m leaning into the joke here, I massively appreciate Nyjah’s skating and always will. Ginwoo is a legend in the making!
I think also their personality and marketability are very important factors for companies to turn skaters pro
I'd say this is basically the only real reason in "business" terms; when they actually get paid.
I've worked in music industry and it's the same. Brands will "sponsor" someone new by giving them products and having them in their websites, but the REAL pros of the business are the artists who are getting paid, because they sell tickets, music, merch, etc. The ones who still get deals with major labels.
In skateboarding those would be the skaters that compete, have great video parts and at least decent social media presence.
I like the "identity" factor. It inspires people, reflects your character and it's more SELLABLE.
You are so right about the steeze factor when it comes to selecting a more difficult trick in the street, than in the park.
Being a skateboarder from the early 90's, it's insane the level that skateboarding has gotten to. Looking back at old 411 video takes I have is odd. Because comparing someone like Mike Vallely to some of these new kids is like night and day.
Mike V was my favourite growing up, loved his style. It definitely is night and day though, you’re right.
@FrankbyFrank Whats crazy is I won a drawing from zumiez back in 96 and got to go skate with him for a couple days. It was badass. Got to meet Chad Muska also on that trip.
@@ddevil4980 no way! That would have been great, two legends!
Remember the euro 96 vid (I think) where the obstacle was a taxi in the middle with kickers around it and Mike v started full on elbow dropping the car 😂😂 good times
@samjohnson3170 Hell yes I remember that video. I don't remember what video It was, but I do remember him dropping elbows on that car.
Little known fun fact: MJ was never an am. My friend was launching a new company at the time (Maple) and needed a roster of pros for the ASR trade show debut. So MJ was pro right out of the gate nearly 30 years ago.
‘Going pro’ use to follow a major contest win. That approach was abandoned many, many years ago. Also, pro for Primitive is a very different thing to pro for almost any other board company these days.
Pros have this presence and personality that transcends through their skating in which holds marketability and identity to the brand one skates for.
Great upload, Filipe Mota definitely is a pro skater in my mind, just based on the spots hes hit up and the trick selection, dude is obviously pro. Nowadays, I feel it's more about who has an audience or fanbase built up, like do you have lots of IG followers, RUclips subscribers etc. Cause having those metrics is what convinces companies you can sell lots of product
If you make your living from what you do, you're a pro at whatever that might be. Pro - professional, as in it's your profession.
"Amateurs are still growing" (their skills). A+ breakdown 👏🏽
I think for a lot of companies, especially ones with mostly adults and lesser talent on the high end of their riders, the only difference between pro and Am is name value. No matter how good you are, if nobody knows you, nobody is going to buy the board with your name on it.
I think if skaters can build a brand, they become major assets to their sponsors. You don't have to do a 540 flip down Hollywood 16...just have dope video parts, do well in contests, have a solid RUclips channel and always be reppin your sponsors products.
to me, control is what separates ams from pros. when you see a professional skate, its evident by how naturally they're able to control their board and body.
The nollie front shove front board to fakie was super sick.
i watched ur channel back in 2021 and stopped skating after that winter since cuz i forgot about it but now i got back into it thanks to u ma boy thanks and keep it up
If Zach Doelling has to "Grow" anymore he will Ollie into space.
He needs to be pro ASAP
This is my actual example of ….. how does this pro thing work then??? But I think maybe Zach is so technically good that it’s….. boring? Must be an image thing or something?
@@greenthirteen1234 We don't need anymore "Gators" or Terry Kennedys. These little Idiots out looting 7-11's need to go too. 7-11's are the Only thing Open during storms.
Absolutely, dudes definitely got all boxes on check list.
this video was really enjoying to watch/listen to. very engaging and informative.
I prefer Dylan’s style over all other primitive riders 😂
Thank you professor Hill for 10:00 of street skate education
As someone who hasn't skated in a very long time, can you explain the difference between pro and amateur in the context of skating? In other sports like climbing for example, there are pros who compete indoors on the comp scene and also pro climbers who climb outdoors and are sponsored. Anyone that is sponsored is considered a pro since they get paid to climb and make a living from it, how is someone that is sponsored not considered a pro? Do they just not make that much money to make it a career in the way a pro would?
in skateboarding ams are people on the team that get product and paid. a pro is usually someone who gets paid more and in a board company they’d essentially get rewarded with a pro model board usually a board with their graphic choice with their name on it, and whenever the board sells theyd get a very small sum of the money from it (its small because making boards is expensive and not the most profitable.)
also the pro is definitely more representative of the company itself then an am is (imo)
this is the way that i understand it at least.
@@itsnotcris4742 Ahhhh so they not only get paid more they also get royalties from their own products basically? That makes sense, thank you for the response I was curious how it works.
9:23 Still repping my PD 1.0 Tee I got wayyy back! It's still my fav tee I own atm.
Love this video it answered so many questions I had. Thanks John
John is always extra and it makes his videos amazing ❤️
It's a flow stance between being able to utilize a sponsor box. If your an am that keeps breaking a board twice a day and asking for another set of trucks the next day.. You get the picture. Timelapse.
As a inline skater, your videos are always fire
The tighter the pants the more pro you are
yoooooo just saw nyjah at the local bunt jam in toronto yesterday!
Zach Doelling will continuing to developing his potential of skating and strength to providing some handrails and similar to a Tiago Lemos or Andrew Reynolds?!
How many tricks fit in a bag of tricks?
Creating a skate team is just like creating a boy band - talent has less to do with it than personality and marketability. How many pros are or have been movie or TV stars? Just off hand I can think of Jason Lee, Rob Dyrdek, Rick McCrank, Chris Roberts, etc... How many are known for how "cool" they are? Heath Kirchart, Chad Muska, etc... The cute ones? Sean Malto, etc.. you could go on and on, but each team needs to have these different personalities to make it work - just like a K-pop group.
1000 percent. Imagine if sheckler wasn’t that teenbeat dreamboat character. Or if bam wasn’t an unpredictable dickhead at times. We probably wouldn’t have heard of them in the mainstream.
That nollie shove to smith was nice ;)
When Brian Herman came out as Am he was like little Andrew Reynolds.
can you do a video about skaters that influenced you when you were getting into it and what not?
You do street and park mostly, not trying to define you. I like to watch all of it. Freestyle, hill bombing longboard, etc. My favorite skating activity to do right now is being pulled behind a bicycle with a retractable dog leash hooked to the seat. The sky is the limit if you decide to be creative.
We need a Skateboarding Reality show. Damn the Bachelor 😂😂
To this day, skateboarding has found the perfect mix between art and technique
Really like your reasoning on this John, nice video!
I like this subject . Sweet upload J.H.
Some skaters are really good and kill it but there might be something I don’t like. Style really matters to me but you can’t be a chump either. Have fun!
I think you forgot about the most important part: market value. If company is going to invest in a skater - they need to be sure the investment will pay off. So skills/bag of tricks I think might be even less important than let's say "popularity" or "marketing potential".
It’s weird cos at my local skatepark we have like 2 50 year olds who come and skate regularly and are better than some RUclipsrs almost ask good as pros and they’re just there
How motivated is the individual, Whilst being open to new risks & new terrain.
Creating a large appetite or major self doubt.
Keep surprising yourselves.
Another banger❗️& im here for it💯🔥
The difference is actually just competition ranking. You can be the skateboard God but until you win some titles and make some money, they won't consider you a "professional"
good in depth video
Accurate. DJ looked way more raw in his street part.
Please can you say more at some point. Age v money v your history as a pro, how armatures support themselves, how lon an am is am. Thx
In my personal opinion you can just tell when somone is pro and idk if that makes sense but they just have IT. The pop, style, tricks etc...
I think it’s probably just putting your time in and proving yourself, like the level Ginwoo skates at now, if anyone else did at 20 or something, would be pro, but he’s a kid and he’s only just showed up
I’d put money on him being pro for Jart in the next six months
this video fye asf keep doin disssss
Great vid
At this point in time I think most people would have the labels flipped in the thumbnail.
Please keep doing stuff like this 😮💨
With all due respect; you’re 100000% wrong on this subject. It has nothing to do with who can pop higher or who skates rails instead of ledges. It’s the skaters marketability. That’s all it comes down to. Who’s got the most eyes on them to move the most product. Sure skill plays a good factor but at their level it doesn’t matter what obstacles they skate or how high they can pop. It’s all about who’s gonna make money for the company. Simple.
Nah a ton of pro skateboarders are introverts. Trick selection is the most important thing for a pro. Like we just saw with trent mcclung, he did a switch bigspin backtail sw heelfip out and those are the kind of tricks everyone wants to see. Thats what really sells the brand.
Or like powell they make you a legends team member ,don't kick you off and still support you
Best company out there hands down
The level of nuance that distinguishes an actual skill level "pro" from the skateboarding industry title of pro has a lot of people confused by your stance lol.
Understandably so because it's not an easy topic to cover or a simple title to define in skateboarding.
Some people are pro as heck, but not pro by title.
And some people are pro by title, but not near as good as random Japanese 8 year olds on Instagram.
For this reason, the nuance is strong that it's impossible to properly define 🤔
Should be an sls announcer
Interesting 🤔🤔🤔
I always assumed it was just putting in your time. Getting recognition. It's becoming very hard to tell the difference between Pros & Ams these days.
They’ll dylan pro in the next year or two I recon. He’s not been on primitive that long but he’s definitely next to be pro
What happened to Nick Tucker? He was coo
Great video
love you john
Don’t forget the best pro in the game today lil Wayne. He is amazing. Been skating for over 10 years now. It shows.
It's also the fact that pros have to be about 75% bionic, meaning they need to have some parts of their body made out of metal and need to eat a special kind of cheerios that is pure metal and quartz. JK just wanted to take up space
The name is a factor. Like old pro skaters from the 70ies and 90ies still.riding and are refered to as pros❤
I think the real question is WHY are they pro or am? Skateboarding is a business and the idea is to make money for the brand. So yes, they have to have talent, but at the end of the day it’s all marketing. If you can sell a board/shoes/clothes, etc… that is what ultimately matters. Look at Bam from the early 2000’s. He outsold everybody and barely skated. There was a tooon of more talented skaters, but he was pro. My 2 cents. 🤷🏻♂️
yeah but many dont know what they are looking for. They are all psych and vibe of this sport now olympic but many dont know what is all about going out the streets and skate.
Only super talented skaters can go pro like lil Wayne...
I've been skating 22 years now. Board graphics now a days are literal garbage I don't think companies are even trying anymore. And when those "pro" park skaters start hitting the streets Maybe I'll take a look lol
Cool video
Dylan is about to go pro for shure
John hill is hands down my fav skater
I thought being pro was that you rode for a shoe or board company and after you got your own product you were pro
Good video
Alot like John Hill is coming into HIS own ..as you can see in this video 😉
If a skater like Mota is sponsored and in all the big competitions, what's the real difference tho? Isn't it just a label? Mota is literally on the same playing field as the so-called pros. I just don't see the difference. He may as well be pro. Like, what would even change for Mota once they slap that label on him? He's already doing everything the so-called pros get to do.
A pro skater is a salesman.
That's their market purpose, to sell skateboard products.
no footage of brian peacock was upsetting
Then tell me why is Leander Sanders become pro?
Lols only one John "Mata"
Ohhhh... Jack Black got them all beat... 😂
Yoo John you got Harvard vibes. You smart?
Can't imagine anyone will buy Jinwoo shit, let's be honest
Nollie shuv fs smith 😮💨😮💨😮💨😮💨 wooooooooo John
Bruh you stayed in Texas and can't say mota?
Mo-ta = Mota. MotTa = Motta, like John Motta
So... You totally let go of longboarding...?
as long if they dont do drugs or smoke they can last 15 years
cool
You just had to show Tennessee beating Alabama didn't you... Unsubbed. Haha😂
🛹🛹🛹
lil Wayne is pro, let that sink in. 😂
Pro skaters do everything faster
tiago is like 5’3” so idk lol. all three am’s are definitely bigger than him already, but that’s just one of your points. i just don’t fully agree w that one
i never said height matters though
@@JohnHill i kind of assumed by “growing up” you meant height. i know you mentioned strength but idk that strength is that different between an 18 year old & 24 year old male.
@@dunk1089 It definitely is, your athletic prime is in your late 20s so it would kind of make sense that you would be stronger in your mid-late 20s than as a teenager. (Just to be clear, I haven't skated in over 20 years and I've just recently started to get interested in it again so I'm speaking in general fitness terms, I have no idea how this correlates to skating but I'm guessing as a very physical sport it probably plays a role? I have no idea lol)
@@Nightwishmaster this is skateboarding though, your prime is definitely not the same as in other sports
@@dunk1089 I'm talking about your athletic prime, as in purely your physical prime where your strength will fully develop which is in your mid to late 20s, not your pure performance prime, sorry I don't think I was clear about that.
John pronounces a lot of names wrong lol
Normally do pretty good, but you completely missed the mark on the whole vid. Strength has nothing to do with it, this isn’t a bench press competition. Most of it is something that can’t be measured but the teams know when it’s time. You haven’t been in skating long enough or you are learning from the wrong time in skating. For instance, you are good & you technically get paid for skating but in the real world of skating, you are not pro. I’ll give you pro-am, that’s what my career was like myself. Re-do this vid after more thought
😂 Fuck outta here
You're saying your skate career is similar to johns? You can't say that and not have any clips to back it up. John could have gone pro for actual companies but he wanted to do RUclips and not focus as much on being pro. He was on birdhouse and had parts on transworld. If I had the choice I woulda chose the same as him.
no one asked you that question stop playing. This is a topic John has soft launched many times in the past. Anyways just came here after GH latest vid about primitive and the two perspectives can not be more different
Most am guys are better than any pro girl.
Damn I wish I would of turned Pro