Hopefully this breakdown of how Helldivers 2's damage system functions was concise enough. With so many moving parts I would not be surprised if I made a mistake or two but the sources of this information listed in the description do no such thing. As always my favorite comment in this video will be featured at the end of the next! Thanks for Watching!
I didn't understand a bit of your explanation of explosive damage tbh What's the deal with scorcher and devastator chest in the end? If enemy has explosive immunity on every part - almost all of my scorcher shots can't even deal explosive damage AT ALL to an enemy? So many questions
Very good information, uncovering the mechanics under the hood really sheds light on WHY a lot of strange things happen when attacking enemies. Before that, it was at the point where even people who try to understand mechanics just shrug and give up, and just dogmatically stick to tactics without knowing why something works or doesn't work.
@@LaserTractor Devastators have Explosive Immunity on every part except arms and the main health pool, which is 800. Devastator Chest has AP 3, so the Scorcher's projectile will not deal damage to chest, but the explosion effect deals 100 damage which is transferred to the Main health pool, meaning it will take 8 shots from the Scorcher to kill a Devastator with chest shots.... unless the Devastators arms take explosive aoe damage, which they do, which transfers 50% of damage to the main health pool. I'm not quite sure yet how to figure out how much damage each arm may take from the explosive AOE of a body shot.
Make sure to convey in a non condescending way. If they continue to refute just leave it be. It won’t be worth the effort to you and others who don’t want it.
also keep in mind that just cuz someone(s) "researched" and "makes sense" doesn't necessarily make is 100% accurate, even if was "plucked" straight from the _source code_ remember not everything works as intended all the time, if anything hasn't been more obvious is that many times it doesn't work as intended in Helldivers2
Holy shit. This explains why my Dominator sometimes takes 2 or 3 shots to kill a hunter lol. It's got 275 damage and hunters have 175 hp. I assumed it was either insane damage drop off or I just hit a wing or somethin. If its 275 * 0.50 (50% to main) thats 137/175 = hunter lives. If I hit 2 of the wings / claws (they arent labled on the website but I assume its that) that would be 275 * (0.3)*2 = 165 LOL the hunter has now lived thru 2 dominator shots and im goin WTF? in game. Luckily even a .3 and .4 hit is 192 damage, enough to consistently 2 tap them unless im super unlucky. This is really useful info I hope you do a deep dive! Edit: This also explains why the Senator feels like shit vs hunters lol. I was like this pistol does so much damage but it can't 1 shot a hunter?! No other site has explained or shown the % to main stat!
Between you and jebblesjr, I get all my HellDivers Intel and brain trust moments. 👍 Keep at it, Crawler! The Pride of Pride thanks you for your service.
I fuckin love nerd stats. These numbers are unironically super helpful vs devastators and berserkers. Now with the actual numbers, I can know where to actually aim besides “shoot the skull”
This makes the nerf to the Slugger even more confusing when compared to the Dominator buff that happened in the exact same patch. Arrowhead balancing is just so confusing. I mean, not all of it is, but some of it really is.
@@s2wuolf508 I don't even think Alexus was the one that chose how it got nerfed. Cause his explanation doesn't line up with the stats that were nerfed. Who ever nerfed it probably wanted people to switch to the dominator and other weapons, and get the data on what weapons people switched to. If only one weapon could hold the role of high damage medium pen stagger; it makes more sense for it to be the cumbersome gyrojet; than better handling pump action shotgun.
It would be great if you explained how the numbers translate to strategies against enemies. Like which parts should be targeted for each enemy depending on the type of weapon being used.
Well dang! I remember leaving a comment on a previous video asking if there was documentation of some of the information you've mentioned before, but you went above and beyond with explaining everything. Thanks for sharing links to those resources as well!
@@EravinVT I cannot tell you how much I appreciated it too! I'm going to be spending a lot of time running experiments now with the info and resources you've shared. It's gonna be a fun weekend!
This was so useful when it came out last week or whenever. The correction from previous estimates about how durable damage/health worked filled in so many oddities. As did the confirmation of a % damage being transferred to a "main" health pool. And now we know why the railgun is so bad. What it needs is more durable damage. And why the laser is so amazing. High availability 200 non-explosive durable dps is huge.
Nah the railgun doesn't need more durable damage imo, what needs to happen is that some bodyparts with ridiculous durability stats need to have that lowered, case in point, bile titan head. I like railgun as the "weakpoint eliminator", there just needs to be more weak parts in the game
@CorwinTheOneAndOnly hot dog brother! I think that's the best solution for the rail gun. I like using the rail gun on bots at times and your idea sounds like a solid solution.
@@Jhunta Railgun on bots is honestly mostly fine. Only a few things maybe need tweaking. Railgun on BUGS is a problem. A bile titan head has a full 100% durability...
It's weird that railgun is particularly bad at Tanks and Turrets. Scorcher kills them faster. Makes no sense. Yet railgun can 1 shot Hulks in perfect shots. 🤷♂️
@CorwinTheOneAndOnly yes but not all weapons are designed for both fronts. the flamethrower is a beast against bugs, but practically worthless agaisnt bots. the railgun working well against bots but not bugs is fine. the new plas101-pacifier I found to not be a better pick than the scorcher against bots, and most players dismissed it at that, but I found the pacifier really shines against bugs. so the first plasma gun is one of the best picks against bots while the new plasma gun works best against bugs. different tools for different tactics and different warfronts.
How damage works. * *conditions apply ** ** conditions apply to the conditional applications.*** *** further exemptions to the conditions of the applications apply to how it works.
When I learned that enemy body parts have separate health pools…..this explains a lot. That video and this one was extremely helpful with my matches going forward.
this is why the diligence cannot one shot a devastator even though the diligence deals 125 damage and the devastator head health is 125. It's because the second the bullet leaves the barrel, it loses at least one point of damage. This is a reason why so many guns feel so weak.
Can't wait for this to fix the Helldivers 2 wiki. The Helldivers 1 wiki had several years to get so deep, this information will help restore it to it's former glory.
You make the best, and most detailed/well explained Helldivers content on the internet. Not just this video, but all your videos are packed with juicy juicy mechanics and information. Thanks dude. Side thanks to the other nerds behind the scenes that provide the data / testing that's highlighted in these videos.
My takeaway from this is that the damage value given by the in-game armory is not only meaningless but is actually misleading. That said, I really like the amount of math they've baked into the game because it allows them to fine-tune how effective each weapon is against each enemy type, and it makes weapon proficiency come with field testing rather than analyzing spreadsheets. I know a lot of people have asked for more weapon stats but I actually think they should go the other way and remove the numerical damage value displayed in the armory. This number is actively unhelpful when discussing damage output for each weapon because the true value is always lower, but the AMOUNT lower it is varies for each weapon and each enemy body part you shoot it at. Instead, I'd love to see Arrowhead remove the numerical damage completely and instead represent damage as a sliding scale value and have another sliding scale value for enemy size that the weapon is meant to be used against. They could even add a third sliding scale for armor penetration and then they wouldn't have to have the armor pen tags in the weapon attributes. This would help players visualize the whole "durable damage" system without needing to reverse engineer all the math or use a spreadsheet to understand what's going on.
it doesnt allow them to fine tune anything, its too complicated for the devs to keep track of themselves and leads to weird ass gun interactions that make the game feel like shit a considerable amount of the time
wow. thank you so much. this is huge. with this massive data release, thanks to it, I finally figured out WHY THE BERSERKERS SEEM TO NEVER FUCKING DIE. They have no armor! none! they just have 1000 HP on the body and a really small head hitbox, which explains exactly why the redeemer side SMG does so incredibly well against them! No AP, but it has a incredible fire rate, and thus against no armor, its DPS is actually insane! BUT it also leads you to notice that the most optimal weapon against them is the KNIGHT SMG (larger clip faster, fire rate, similar damage per shot) which should be able to easily shred berserkers better than any other gun. coming in close second is the STALWART support weapon at max RPM. I was very confused why seemingly heavy hitter weapons like the HMG did so poorly, but now I understand that the ARMOR PEN IS WASTED which is counter intuitive because normally you would think about the bots as having armor be the main issue!
Some of these damage mechanisms feels very similar to the way damage is done in some TTRPG games like Dungeon & Dragons or Pathfinder (armor class ratings causing a knock-down to damage received depending on type of damage etc...) It's quite cool and I like it (even though some comments here would complain about the complexity). The fact that it's all abstracted away encourage players to experiment with different weapons and hitting different areas on the enemies to figure out for themselves what weapons/strategy is best for different enemy types
This guy’s videos rock. He never asks me to buy his protein powder or other sponsored garbage and his video actually starts at the beginning instead of 2 minutes in after all the self promotion and ads. He’s also a genius with this shit. Like and subscribe all day.
Wild, but interesting too. You'd think with all that work and information in place it would be way easier for the devs to finetune the weapons to make them excel at specific roles.
no lol they made it so complex they cant even mess with it without destroying everything else. thats why the balance is destroyed, they made a system thats bloated as fuck and unnecessary
Thanks for the video! Please consider covering the most problematic enemies like titans & chargers & hulks & brood commanders & spewers. Also if you can please elaborate what is the difference in "weak spots" and "durable parts" on an enemy like the charger or spewer?
If I could give you 3,000 likes on my own, I would happily personally give this video 3,000 likes. PLEASE make the video breaking down how these numbers apply to each enemy type. Even if you only give a few examples (like one "standard" example and then more nuanced enemies) it would be greatly appreciated. I think I follow everything you said in this video, but I would feel more confident in my takeaways if there were a couple specific examples I could look at. I can't be the only one that feels this way, unless I'm a lot dumber than I currently suspect, so I have to imagine there are other people that would appreciate any follow up content you make on the topic.
Damage fall off values. Reminds me of when in physics class we were calculating projectile motion, and then the professor goes “but now we need to calculate friction and wind resistance”
This was cool. I wonder if there is a similar amount of data for helldiver armor and damage received. I saw a video a while back about how the actual armored sections of the armor and even the color mattered, as well as possibly things like visor color and antanae. Would be cool to see someone do a deep dive on that.
Some takeaways from the data: You can't kill a tank with less than 3 AT missiles. You can take out a tanks tracks with 6 AMR shots or 3 AC shots. Somehow it has no explosive vulnerability but I'm pretty sure the vent takes explosive damage? There seems to be a part of the charger (middle back) that is as lethal as hitting the head is. The Factory strider has a 250 hp lightly armored fatal weakpoint. I guess that's the vents going in and out of the body?
I believe its turret has a different HP pool and stats from the body. Probably the heavy fusion cannon. Hp 750. 100% durability everywhere. Main armor 5. Front armor 6 explosion resistance. Rear armor 3; no explosion resistance. The old rocket plus scorcher shot finish makes sense. 650 damage to side or rear. Scorcher shot to rear to deal 100 durability splash damage.
@@Xandros999 I should probably specify that I wasn't entirely correct on the scorcher damage. Because the level heatsink is level 3 armor, it takes half damage from the scorcher's 3 pen splash; so 50 durability damage. However the quasar/eat/recoilless do 150 pen 3 splash, so they do 650 + 75 damage to the turret; leaving 25 hp remaining for the scorcher to finish up in one shot.
Here's a Kitty Komment to help the channel: I don't really need to know the numbers, but it would be nice to know which parts on enemies to aim for. Yes, in most cases the head is obvious, but (for example) with Devastators you can also go for the legs.
Almost at 3,000 likes! Looking forward to the bis targetting for each enemy. The bis weapon for each enemy. The bis loadout for each mission type. bis bis bis. Well done Super Earth Intelligence!
This is definitely one of the damage systems of all time. I’d honestly be shocked if this system is fully working as intended, since this game is pretty buggy and reeks of spaghetti code. This also makes the weapon stats they give even more useless and downright misleading in some instances. That being said, it’s still very cool to learn about and see how it’s all supposed to work under the hood and I’ll always appreciate the nerd stats as I’m a software engineering nerd.
Nerd stats? Friend, these are stats the general public should absolutely be aware of :) Armour penetration values on weapons and armour values on enemies absolutely need to be shown in-game. I was convinced that Devastators had Armour 4 on their chests and most of their bodies. Nope. Armour 3 on the chest, Armour 2 pretty much everywhere else. I don't need anti-armour to fight them. Or the fact that breaking their legs is fatal - didn't know that, either. This is remarkably valuable information. Please, absolutely do a video on each enemy, ideally with stills colour-coded for body parts armour.
I had a feeling this was the case, most games with part damage do something akin to this, but it's cool to actually know the math going into it. (and to know that medium AP weapons are much better than they look on their weapon cards, honestly)
With this extra damage calculation information, no wonder the Med AP Liberator feels so horrible. Not only does it do less damage than the standard Liberator, but even that damage is more than likely less due to how Dmg/Durability interact.
You know this makes a lot of sense and explains why the crossbow even with it's change to try and be a more 'direct impact' rather than 'splash' feels so lack luster now. It's probably getting that big ol' fall off for the impact but even more importantly the explosive is lower AP than the plasma punisher. Like after using both pretty extensively recently, I couldn't explain why they felt so very similar to the punisher yet it just didn't stagger or burst as consistently. It's weird to see it has AP3 on the impact but if it's only impact damage going through because the explosive isn't meeting the AP needed then it's just a higher risk, lower firing impact weapon that is outclassed by the JAR or others of the type. Meanwhile the Punisher's better AOE and higher stun/push values just make it feel better overall. Also okay inner body Armor 4 on titans explains why the HMG can take it down but also inner torso 0?????? where is this part and how can I slap a titan with a senator to death? edit: Though this actually makes a lot of sense why the Railgun feels like a really good follow up to bile titan headshots. With only 100 HP to hit that's just 2 semi-overcharged shots to consistently kill. How that might explain why it doesn't feel like there is a point to holding that overcharge for long because it seems like you get the bulk of the benefits early and it doesn't scale in a meaningful way.
@@EravinVT Yeah, I kinda hope they switch it up to be something like the Torque bow from Gears. Have it stick on impact then explode for a little more damage later.
I wonder if this (the way explosives are handled and the fact some parts are outright immune to them) is why the Eruptor seemingly suffered so much from losing its shrapnel? The extra damage to the enemies total hp probably was small, as was originally stated, but so much small damage all at once across all viable parts of an enemy probably led to situations where the shrapnel would just rip through smaller targets total hp instead of their part hp since I’d imagine the shrapnel isn’t counted as “explosive” and thus bypasses the explosion immunity on some parts. I could be wrong, of course, but it would at least explain why the gun went from amazing to tragically underperforming just from a few supposedly small changes.
The shrapnel was calculated as a bunch of individual explosions invalidating the rule that prevented multiple hits from one explosion overflowing the total hp of most enemies
Ah. Figured something like that was the case, as I just wasn't sure if they counted as Projectiles or Explosions. Still, all this info in and of itself is really cool and useful to have on hand because it prompts questions like this one. I'm definitely looking forward to more stuff like this video. :)
The Eruptor's performance pre- and post-shrapnel removal is the first thing that came to my mind once I started seeing a bunch of those (ExplosionImmunity) tags on certain enemies, glad to see others picked up on it too. The patch notes for that shrapnel removal always struck me as dishonest ("This is to avoid cases in which players would randomly one-shot themselves or their teammates in a huge radius around the explosion."), and this kind of stuff is why the Numbers Nerds™ in any game are important. P.S.: Arrowhead if you want to nerf something, that's whatever (and a whole different can of worms at the moment), just don't be dishonest about it. Especially in cases like this where it's incredibly blatant, it comes across as condescending.
Assuming that the four "unk" labeled body parts of the warrior are its torso, it is not the same health total as main. The main health pool is 250, while 75x4 is 300.
I think the most interesting stuff to come out of enemy stats is berserkers (the belly weakpoint looks like a fakeout) and stalkers (everything is 50% durable except the head).
Only able to skim through this one at the moment, but from my understanding bullet angle on impact matters. As with the crossbow bolts bouncing off the ground. Could be wrong, but a bad angle may count the target as having higher armor. Was testing with the pistol on warriors, and sometimes bullets deflect, seems to be based off impact angle.
So I think this goes to show the love and care the devs put into this game. Its carefully been crafted and planned to have these modifiers and interactions. What a game they have given us.
Honestly, after seeing this explanation, and assuming it's accurate, I think they need to seriously reconsider/redesign some major portions of their damage model. It's no wonder balancing is such a nightmare. In fact after seeing the explanation of how limb/body/total health damage is tallied, I can't help but think they re-invented the wheel and did it worse than the original wheel. Battletech has had limb to core damage worked out for decades, and this includes each section having Armor, structure, and critical hit spots (for important equipment), as well as damage transference (i.e. when the left arm has been reduced to zero, additional hits to the arm transfer that damage inward to the next section such as the left torso). And this system has been the backbone of the TT Wargame since the 1980s, and countless Turn Based, RTS, and simulator computer games over the decades. There are even rules to deal with things like scatter shot weapons (cluster missiles, shotguns, shrapnel), fire damage, arc damage, internal explosions (ammo cook offs in a mech, but this could certainly be re-applied to Helldivers). I'm a lifelong fan of Battletech and one of the reasons for my continued playing is the system's relative simplicity that in combinations lead to near infinite complexity. Helldivers could beg, borrow, and steal some valuable lessons from that franchise.
this damage system is fucking horrible. whatever idiot thought he was einstien when he made this needs to be fired cause thats why the balance in this game is destroyed
I'm not a nerd, i don't understand numbers, I shoot and enemy go boom, total caveman. I'd really hope for a video explaining what to do with this new insight in practical terms!
Just looking at the weapons chart, holy crap no wonder I love Spear so much. Also kind of funny the other rocket launchers all have a push value of 25, but Quasar is 40. I have to imagine that explains how Quasar causes funnier ragdolls.
I'm trying to develop a spreadsheet that gives an approximation of each weapon's value in relation to other weapons, and plasma weapons (especially the scorcher) are an absolute nightmare to deal with. It causes every other weapon to be ridiculously underpowered due to the AOE, durable damage, and armor penetration. It's no wonder the Arrowhead developers are having a difficult time balancing the weapons of the game. Even the purifier, based purely on numbers, is an extremely overpowered weapon relative to other weapons due to these properties.
5:28 This is such a silly aside that has nothing to do with the video, but if you ever wondered why you can't dovide by 0, this is why. Dividing by x-x in this case is LITERALLY 0, but in theoratical problems where you don't know x this still applies
Nerd stats are fun but they also hurt my brain. I think at the end of the day what we want to glean from the numbers is where to shoot what enemy with what gun to get the kill in as few shots as possible. Guess we gotta crunch some numbers.
You know I noticed something interesting. Devastators have two damage entries for the right hip and no damage entries for the left hip. It could potentially mean that that the two hips work different. Perhaps Devastators simply don't take any damage at all in the left hip. Perhaps they take double damage to the right hip, or have right hips have twice as many effective hit points as they are supposed to. Or it could mean absolutely nothing. Would love to know if anyone has tested this.
I am curious as to how all of this was found out, because some of these numbers seem incredibly hard to find out. As an example, the arc thrower having ap7, when the highest armor value on enemies is 5.
So the hole Explosiv Dmg System was actually fundamentally broken by Design. So before they made Limbs immune to explosiv dmg, when a rocket hit mit toe, it acutally dealt dmg to my legs and torso - which was enough to kill my total health pool. And that was why rockets/rocket Devestators where the worst enemys in the game at launch? So when I 500kg bomb a bile titan, and the explosion only hit´s the leg, the titan survives, because the leg is immune to explosion DMG? Plz Eravin, give us more examples of some edge chases, so I can better understand this knowledge.
The explosive category is still under more thorough investigation but it's starting to make more sense overtime. But yes that first example is exactly why Rocket Devastators always one shot us
Damage/effects should round up for HDs and down for enemies due to there are way more shots coming in at the players vs number of shots going out toward our enemies.
I find it interesting that the gunship thrusters aren't listed as fatal when they might as well be. But I suppose it's not counted as a kill till it hits the ground?
In the video about Scorcher, you say that explosive damage ALWAYS applied only to Total Health. So, if I deal just explosive DMG to an enemy body part (which is, for example, 50% to main), and that part is NOT immune to explosive damage, will damage be fully redirected to the Total Health? Or only 50% of damage gonna be redirected and other 50% damage is taken by body part HP? Like, as an example Devastator (800 Total Health) Scorcher (100 Ballistic AP 2 + 100 Explosive AP3) shots at his Chest (425 Health, 3 AC, 100% to main, 40% durable): Ballistic DMG is deflected since AP < AC; Explosive DMG to durable is 100%, but since 3 AP = 3 AC, damage will be halved, which is 50 points of DMG; But his Chest is immune to explosive DMG, so damage will not be applied to body part, but just to Total Health. So it would take (800/50) 16 shots from Scorcher to kill him by shooting Chest? *** Except that Devastator arms (1 AC, 50% to main, 0% durable) are not immune to explosive damage, and in theory they redirect half of explosive DMG (or 50%+50%, if both arms are in inner full DMG radius) to Total Health when you shoot Chest. Or does immunity to explosive damage mean that if you hit Immune Chest, the explosive damage will only be applied to Chest, and arms won't count any damage even if they're within the blast radius?*** Also, do I understand correctly that we only look at Durable DMG if we're shooting at a Durable body part (durability > 0%), and if durability = 0%, we just count Ballistic Damage + others? For example: if AP = 2, AC = 2 and a body part has 0% durability, then we count Total DMG as ---- (100% ballistic DMG + 0% Durable DMG) and divide the sum by two; But if AP = 2, AC = 2 and the body part has 40% durability, then we count Total DMG as ---- (60% Ballistic DMG + 40% Durable DMG) and divide the sum by two?
interesting info no doubt, many have reached similar conclusions even w/out crunching numbers... I just hope most folks use it to try and have more fun playing the game, but avoid taking it as gospel... even tho a lot of it "makes a lot of sense" (now), the info might not be 100% accurate, heck even if the info had came straight from the devs there's the possibility of some not working as intended (being affected by glitches, or unforeseen interactions), but even if it is, those are still subject to change... and since arrowhead has opted to not disclose that info in-game or otherwise, there's an even greater change they won't disclose if they change any of those mechanics...
They don't ignore armor, but penetration is quite high for most of them. Blitzer has medium AP and Brood's head is only light armor. Arc Thrower has an astounding 7AP, which is more than anything in the game has armor, so effectively that ignores armor. The low damage still means you need a boatload of shots. Tesla Tower has 5AP.
Looking at the links, what are Chemical Backpack, Prowler (not sure if another type of Stalker or just a forgotten name), Hulk Obliterator, Barrager Tank and Bile Charger?
@EravinVT, it'd help me a lot if you could break down the math with an example including the explosion effect. For instance, I see that a Bot Fab has a inside health of 400hp with 100% durable and 4 armor. The Eruptor kills Bot Fabs in one shot to the inside, but it has a damage of 230, durable of 115, and explosion effect of 190, with 3 AP. How does the Eruptor kill the inside of a Bot Fab in one shot?
My only problem with that helldiver armor site is it's just a blob of data. I know that's ingested/used by other sites in a table format, but I'd rather it just be a simple table for each enemy. Meh.
I wonder how "explosionimmunity" is handled for AoE weapons. A basic raider bot is flagged as explosion immune in all parts, but will die to an airstrike. Devastators are flagged as explosion immune to all but the arms, implying that maybe the Scorcher's AOE attacks are hurting the arms, that transfer their "50% to main" damage to its 800 main health pool, perhaps. Maybe explosionimmunity counters AoE damage at an equal or lower AP value but doesn't confer immunity if AP exceeds it?
In short the explosion immunity prevents damage from being done multiple times. There is still the main body of the enemy which will take splash damage, but all the individual body parts if they are explosion immune will not take damage. Basically look at the total hp of an enemy, that is how much splash damage it will take to finish them. Grenade launcher is 350 splash damage, so it will take 3 shots to destroy a devastator. The arms being vulnerable to splash means that sometimes you'll see the arms blown off while using the grenade launcher or other splash weapons. _Might_ also be possible to two shot a devastator by targeting the arms. You should be able to one shot an arm with the splash, doing 150 damage to main; if the splash still reaches main and does at least 250 damage, you'll be doing 400 damage required for the 2 shot finish.
On bugs i know certain weapons break the armor and you can shoot the squishy parts underneath. But exactly what determines that? Same higher armor class on weapon? explosive?
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Hopefully this breakdown of how Helldivers 2's damage system functions was concise enough. With so many moving parts I would not be surprised if I made a mistake or two but the sources of this information listed in the description do no such thing. As always my favorite comment in this video will be featured at the end of the next! Thanks for Watching!
That was enlightening and overwhelming. Let us know if any new strategies against certain enemies develop from this. Thanks, Eravin.
that's a bug, the charger displaces it's armor during charge animations allowing you to shoot the exposed leg through the armor.
I didn't understand a bit of your explanation of explosive damage tbh
What's the deal with scorcher and devastator chest in the end?
If enemy has explosive immunity on every part - almost all of my scorcher shots can't even deal explosive damage AT ALL to an enemy?
So many questions
Very good information, uncovering the mechanics under the hood really sheds light on WHY a lot of strange things happen when attacking enemies.
Before that, it was at the point where even people who try to understand mechanics just shrug and give up, and just dogmatically stick to tactics without knowing why something works or doesn't work.
@@LaserTractor Devastators have Explosive Immunity on every part except arms and the main health pool, which is 800. Devastator Chest has AP 3, so the Scorcher's projectile will not deal damage to chest, but the explosion effect deals 100 damage which is transferred to the Main health pool, meaning it will take 8 shots from the Scorcher to kill a Devastator with chest shots.... unless the Devastators arms take explosive aoe damage, which they do, which transfers 50% of damage to the main health pool. I'm not quite sure yet how to figure out how much damage each arm may take from the explosive AOE of a body shot.
Gonna send this to my friends and end so many arguments
Nice
And possibly start a few I’m assuming
Make sure to convey in a non condescending way. If they continue to refute just leave it be. It won’t be worth the effort to you and others who don’t want it.
also keep in mind that just cuz someone(s) "researched" and "makes sense" doesn't necessarily make is 100% accurate, even if was "plucked" straight from the _source code_ remember not everything works as intended all the time, if anything hasn't been more obvious is that many times it doesn't work as intended in Helldivers2
☝🏻🤓 “SeE AcTuAlLy I hAvE bEeN rIgHt AlL aLoNg” *inserts RUclips link* 💀
Me: So my sniper rifle’s description says it will give me 140 damage.
Helldiver’s Damage Calculator: Best I can do is 50
Yep
Alexus slaps fabricator: "This baby has zero effect on the number of robots that spawn throughout the level!"
@@baltogames1501Why would it?
@@johndiddilyjoe6258 It makes robots, bro.
@@johndiddilyjoe6258 It's a fabricator. It fabricates ( makes) robots.
Holy shit. This explains why my Dominator sometimes takes 2 or 3 shots to kill a hunter lol. It's got 275 damage and hunters have 175 hp. I assumed it was either insane damage drop off or I just hit a wing or somethin. If its 275 * 0.50 (50% to main) thats 137/175 = hunter lives. If I hit 2 of the wings / claws (they arent labled on the website but I assume its that) that would be 275 * (0.3)*2 = 165 LOL the hunter has now lived thru 2 dominator shots and im goin WTF? in game. Luckily even a .3 and .4 hit is 192 damage, enough to consistently 2 tap them unless im super unlucky. This is really useful info I hope you do a deep dive!
Edit: This also explains why the Senator feels like shit vs hunters lol. I was like this pistol does so much damage but it can't 1 shot a hunter?! No other site has explained or shown the % to main stat!
These guys put together an absolute treasure trove of information, i'm just bringing it to light!
I love Senator vs hunters, but yesterday I saw a round ricochet off one’s claw and deal 0 damage (it was a weird angle). Pretty neat.
You gotta know how to parry to take the senator against hunters
Between you and jebblesjr, I get all my HellDivers Intel and brain trust moments.
👍
Keep at it, Crawler!
The Pride of Pride thanks you for your service.
I fuckin love nerd stats. These numbers are unironically super helpful vs devastators and berserkers. Now with the actual numbers, I can know where to actually aim besides “shoot the skull”
This makes the nerf to the Slugger even more confusing when compared to the Dominator buff that happened in the exact same patch.
Arrowhead balancing is just so confusing. I mean, not all of it is, but some of it really is.
Slugger nerf will never make sense
@@EravinVT”but… but… its braindead!” said Alexus stupidly(yes, he said it was braindead)
@@s2wuolf508 I don't even think Alexus was the one that chose how it got nerfed. Cause his explanation doesn't line up with the stats that were nerfed.
Who ever nerfed it probably wanted people to switch to the dominator and other weapons, and get the data on what weapons people switched to.
If only one weapon could hold the role of high damage medium pen stagger; it makes more sense for it to be the cumbersome gyrojet; than better handling pump action shotgun.
@@josephburchanowski4636 Alexus rarely makes sense tbh
Oh that follow-up video would be amazing
It would be ALOT but i'm willing to do it
It would be great if you explained how the numbers translate to strategies against enemies. Like which parts should be targeted for each enemy depending on the type of weapon being used.
I would include some of that in a followup
5:30 from row 5 to 6, dividing both sides with (x-x) to simplification is an error, since you cannot divide by (x-x) because (x-x) is, in fact, zero.
These breakdowns are exactly what i need to get into the total health pools for flamethrower gameplay
It’s certainly a deep rabbit hole
Well dang! I remember leaving a comment on a previous video asking if there was documentation of some of the information you've mentioned before, but you went above and beyond with explaining everything. Thanks for sharing links to those resources as well!
Yep I saw lots of you guys commenting asking for more elaboration on stats so I wanted to deliver asap
@@EravinVT I cannot tell you how much I appreciated it too! I'm going to be spending a lot of time running experiments now with the info and resources you've shared.
It's gonna be a fun weekend!
This is a preposterously convoluted system.
It sure is a system of all time
To be honest stuff like this is incredibly common in gaming. We just usually don't see it all.
Garbage over-complicated shit. No wonder why the game feels so shit.
This is extremely enlightening. Zeddy must have done a ton of work for these numbers!
Thank you for all the clarification on the numbers, Zeddy!
This was so useful when it came out last week or whenever. The correction from previous estimates about how durable damage/health worked filled in so many oddities. As did the confirmation of a % damage being transferred to a "main" health pool.
And now we know why the railgun is so bad. What it needs is more durable damage. And why the laser is so amazing. High availability 200 non-explosive durable dps is huge.
Nah the railgun doesn't need more durable damage imo, what needs to happen is that some bodyparts with ridiculous durability stats need to have that lowered, case in point, bile titan head.
I like railgun as the "weakpoint eliminator", there just needs to be more weak parts in the game
@CorwinTheOneAndOnly hot dog brother! I think that's the best solution for the rail gun. I like using the rail gun on bots at times and your idea sounds like a solid solution.
@@Jhunta Railgun on bots is honestly mostly fine. Only a few things maybe need tweaking.
Railgun on BUGS is a problem. A bile titan head has a full 100% durability...
It's weird that railgun is particularly bad at Tanks and Turrets. Scorcher kills them faster. Makes no sense. Yet railgun can 1 shot Hulks in perfect shots. 🤷♂️
@CorwinTheOneAndOnly yes but not all weapons are designed for both fronts. the flamethrower is a beast against bugs, but practically worthless agaisnt bots. the railgun working well against bots but not bugs is fine. the new plas101-pacifier I found to not be a better pick than the scorcher against bots, and most players dismissed it at that, but I found the pacifier really shines against bugs. so the first plasma gun is one of the best picks against bots while the new plasma gun works best against bugs. different tools for different tactics and different warfronts.
How damage works. *
*conditions apply **
** conditions apply to the conditional applications.***
*** further exemptions to the conditions of the applications apply to how it works.
Basically
You can really tell that they took inspiration from Warhammer 40,000.
When I learned that enemy body parts have separate health pools…..this explains a lot. That video and this one was extremely helpful with my matches going forward.
Nice glad they helped you out
I sure find it interesting that GameSpot also made a video on this exact same topic right after you.
Happens
this is why the diligence cannot one shot a devastator even though the diligence deals 125 damage and the devastator head health is 125. It's because the second the bullet leaves the barrel, it loses at least one point of damage. This is a reason why so many guns feel so weak.
so that's why enemies feel so spongey, it's not because they have high hp, but because of weird damage mingling
More often then not yes
everyone like this video, i want that breakdown haha
Soon tm
Spam likes on this video so we can get the next video unlocked. Consider it a Major Order.
lol
First time I've ever hit like on a RUclips video =D
Can't wait for this to fix the Helldivers 2 wiki. The Helldivers 1 wiki had several years to get so deep, this information will help restore it to it's former glory.
You make the best, and most detailed/well explained Helldivers content on the internet. Not just this video, but all your videos are packed with juicy juicy mechanics and information. Thanks dude. Side thanks to the other nerds behind the scenes that provide the data / testing that's highlighted in these videos.
My takeaway from this is that the damage value given by the in-game armory is not only meaningless but is actually misleading. That said, I really like the amount of math they've baked into the game because it allows them to fine-tune how effective each weapon is against each enemy type, and it makes weapon proficiency come with field testing rather than analyzing spreadsheets.
I know a lot of people have asked for more weapon stats but I actually think they should go the other way and remove the numerical damage value displayed in the armory. This number is actively unhelpful when discussing damage output for each weapon because the true value is always lower, but the AMOUNT lower it is varies for each weapon and each enemy body part you shoot it at. Instead, I'd love to see Arrowhead remove the numerical damage completely and instead represent damage as a sliding scale value and have another sliding scale value for enemy size that the weapon is meant to be used against. They could even add a third sliding scale for armor penetration and then they wouldn't have to have the armor pen tags in the weapon attributes. This would help players visualize the whole "durable damage" system without needing to reverse engineer all the math or use a spreadsheet to understand what's going on.
Durable damage needs to be represented somehow in the tooltips as it’s to integral to the calculation to be left hidden imo
it doesnt allow them to fine tune anything, its too complicated for the devs to keep track of themselves and leads to weird ass gun interactions that make the game feel like shit a considerable amount of the time
wow. thank you so much. this is huge. with this massive data release, thanks to it, I finally figured out WHY THE BERSERKERS SEEM TO NEVER FUCKING DIE. They have no armor! none! they just have 1000 HP on the body and a really small head hitbox, which explains exactly why the redeemer side SMG does so incredibly well against them! No AP, but it has a incredible fire rate, and thus against no armor, its DPS is actually insane! BUT it also leads you to notice that the most optimal weapon against them is the KNIGHT SMG (larger clip faster, fire rate, similar damage per shot) which should be able to easily shred berserkers better than any other gun. coming in close second is the STALWART support weapon at max RPM. I was very confused why seemingly heavy hitter weapons like the HMG did so poorly, but now I understand that the ARMOR PEN IS WASTED which is counter intuitive because normally you would think about the bots as having armor be the main issue!
Information like this is what I live for, keep it coming!
Finally it all starts making some sense
At long last it makes some amount of sense haha
Some of these damage mechanisms feels very similar to the way damage is done in some TTRPG games like Dungeon & Dragons or Pathfinder (armor class ratings causing a knock-down to damage received depending on type of damage etc...)
It's quite cool and I like it (even though some comments here would complain about the complexity). The fact that it's all abstracted away encourage players to experiment with different weapons and hitting different areas on the enemies to figure out for themselves what weapons/strategy is best for different enemy types
MORE NERD NUMBERS PLEASE
I sure do love nerd numbers
I was literally looking for this spreadsheet forever. Thank you so much!
happy to help spread good info
This guy’s videos rock. He never asks me to buy his protein powder or other sponsored garbage and his video actually starts at the beginning instead of 2 minutes in after all the self promotion and ads. He’s also a genius with this shit. Like and subscribe all day.
Wild, but interesting too. You'd think with all that work and information in place it would be way easier for the devs to finetune the weapons to make them excel at specific roles.
no lol they made it so complex they cant even mess with it without destroying everything else. thats why the balance is destroyed, they made a system thats bloated as fuck and unnecessary
More complicated than a modern Jojo stand battle
Pretty much
that armor reduction thing is some overwatch level fuckery
Thanks for the video!
Please consider covering the most problematic enemies like titans & chargers & hulks & brood commanders & spewers.
Also if you can please elaborate what is the difference in "weak spots" and "durable parts" on an enemy like the charger or spewer?
If I could give you 3,000 likes on my own, I would happily personally give this video 3,000 likes.
PLEASE make the video breaking down how these numbers apply to each enemy type. Even if you only give a few examples (like one "standard" example and then more nuanced enemies) it would be greatly appreciated.
I think I follow everything you said in this video, but I would feel more confident in my takeaways if there were a couple specific examples I could look at. I can't be the only one that feels this way, unless I'm a lot dumber than I currently suspect, so I have to imagine there are other people that would appreciate any follow up content you make on the topic.
Every enemy bodypart analysis incoming, im fking pumped up dude
I’m mentally preparing haha
Absolute abstraction for a random outside viewer
Damage fall off values. Reminds me of when in physics class we were calculating projectile motion, and then the professor goes “but now we need to calculate friction and wind resistance”
This was cool. I wonder if there is a similar amount of data for helldiver armor and damage received. I saw a video a while back about how the actual armored sections of the armor and even the color mattered, as well as possibly things like visor color and antanae. Would be cool to see someone do a deep dive on that.
I know the videos you are referring to and those are entirely fake
@@EravinVT That's a bummer, was hoping player equipment had some hidden details like that. Thank you for letting me know.
Ive been waiting for this breakdown!
Please make a follow up video for the enemies!
If we get there it’ll be a lot of info to cover but I’ll do my best, it might need to be per faction
Some takeaways from the data:
You can't kill a tank with less than 3 AT missiles.
You can take out a tanks tracks with 6 AMR shots or 3 AC shots.
Somehow it has no explosive vulnerability but I'm pretty sure the vent takes explosive damage?
There seems to be a part of the charger (middle back) that is as lethal as hitting the head is.
The Factory strider has a 250 hp lightly armored fatal weakpoint. I guess that's the vents going in and out of the body?
I believe its turret has a different HP pool and stats from the body. Probably the heavy fusion cannon.
Hp 750. 100% durability everywhere. Main armor 5.
Front armor 6 explosion resistance.
Rear armor 3; no explosion resistance.
The old rocket plus scorcher shot finish makes sense. 650 damage to side or rear. Scorcher shot to rear to deal 100 durability splash damage.
@@josephburchanowski4636 That sounds right. Good catch.
@@Xandros999 I should probably specify that I wasn't entirely correct on the scorcher damage. Because the level heatsink is level 3 armor, it takes half damage from the scorcher's 3 pen splash; so 50 durability damage. However the quasar/eat/recoilless do 150 pen 3 splash, so they do 650 + 75 damage to the turret; leaving 25 hp remaining for the scorcher to finish up in one shot.
Here's a Kitty Komment to help the channel: I don't really need to know the numbers, but it would be nice to know which parts on enemies to aim for. Yes, in most cases the head is obvious, but (for example) with Devastators you can also go for the legs.
If we get to the follow up I may need to split it in two one faction at a time but I’ll attempt to cover it the best I can
Almost at 3,000 likes!
Looking forward to the bis targetting for each enemy. The bis weapon for each enemy. The bis loadout for each mission type. bis bis bis.
Well done Super Earth Intelligence!
This is definitely one of the damage systems of all time. I’d honestly be shocked if this system is fully working as intended, since this game is pretty buggy and reeks of spaghetti code. This also makes the weapon stats they give even more useless and downright misleading in some instances.
That being said, it’s still very cool to learn about and see how it’s all supposed to work under the hood and I’ll always appreciate the nerd stats as I’m a software engineering nerd.
Love me some nerd numbers
Nerd stats? Friend, these are stats the general public should absolutely be aware of :) Armour penetration values on weapons and armour values on enemies absolutely need to be shown in-game. I was convinced that Devastators had Armour 4 on their chests and most of their bodies. Nope. Armour 3 on the chest, Armour 2 pretty much everywhere else. I don't need anti-armour to fight them. Or the fact that breaking their legs is fatal - didn't know that, either. This is remarkably valuable information. Please, absolutely do a video on each enemy, ideally with stills colour-coded for body parts armour.
I had a feeling this was the case, most games with part damage do something akin to this, but it's cool to actually know the math going into it. (and to know that medium AP weapons are much better than they look on their weapon cards, honestly)
With this extra damage calculation information, no wonder the Med AP Liberator feels so horrible. Not only does it do less damage than the standard Liberator, but even that damage is more than likely less due to how Dmg/Durability interact.
This was amazingly useful! I'd love to see the follow-up video!
I might need to make one per faction but if we get there it’ll happen
You know this makes a lot of sense and explains why the crossbow even with it's change to try and be a more 'direct impact' rather than 'splash' feels so lack luster now. It's probably getting that big ol' fall off for the impact but even more importantly the explosive is lower AP than the plasma punisher. Like after using both pretty extensively recently, I couldn't explain why they felt so very similar to the punisher yet it just didn't stagger or burst as consistently. It's weird to see it has AP3 on the impact but if it's only impact damage going through because the explosive isn't meeting the AP needed then it's just a higher risk, lower firing impact weapon that is outclassed by the JAR or others of the type. Meanwhile the Punisher's better AOE and higher stun/push values just make it feel better overall.
Also okay inner body Armor 4 on titans explains why the HMG can take it down but also inner torso 0?????? where is this part and how can I slap a titan with a senator to death?
edit: Though this actually makes a lot of sense why the Railgun feels like a really good follow up to bile titan headshots. With only 100 HP to hit that's just 2 semi-overcharged shots to consistently kill. How that might explain why it doesn't feel like there is a point to holding that overcharge for long because it seems like you get the bulk of the benefits early and it doesn't scale in a meaningful way.
Yeah crossbow AP 2 explosions is wack, I’d almost prefer no explosion at all
@@EravinVT Yeah, I kinda hope they switch it up to be something like the Torque bow from Gears. Have it stick on impact then explode for a little more damage later.
🤯 I was wondering why, so frustratingly, I’d shoot a raider with the scorcher or jar, etc, and not one shot them
Yeaa
Great video like always, knowing stuff about HP pools is very important
Eravin diction / speech lvl have improved a lot... KEEP GOING BRO!
Doin my best
I wonder if this (the way explosives are handled and the fact some parts are outright immune to them) is why the Eruptor seemingly suffered so much from losing its shrapnel?
The extra damage to the enemies total hp probably was small, as was originally stated, but so much small damage all at once across all viable parts of an enemy probably led to situations where the shrapnel would just rip through smaller targets total hp instead of their part hp since I’d imagine the shrapnel isn’t counted as “explosive” and thus bypasses the explosion immunity on some parts.
I could be wrong, of course, but it would at least explain why the gun went from amazing to tragically underperforming just from a few supposedly small changes.
The shrapnel was calculated as a bunch of individual explosions invalidating the rule that prevented multiple hits from one explosion overflowing the total hp of most enemies
Ah. Figured something like that was the case, as I just wasn't sure if they counted as Projectiles or Explosions. Still, all this info in and of itself is really cool and useful to have on hand because it prompts questions like this one. I'm definitely looking forward to more stuff like this video. :)
The Eruptor's performance pre- and post-shrapnel removal is the first thing that came to my mind once I started seeing a bunch of those (ExplosionImmunity) tags on certain enemies, glad to see others picked up on it too. The patch notes for that shrapnel removal always struck me as dishonest ("This is to avoid cases in which players would randomly one-shot themselves or their teammates in a huge radius around the explosion."), and this kind of stuff is why the Numbers Nerds™ in any game are important.
P.S.: Arrowhead if you want to nerf something, that's whatever (and a whole different can of worms at the moment), just don't be dishonest about it. Especially in cases like this where it's incredibly blatant, it comes across as condescending.
Assuming that the four "unk" labeled body parts of the warrior are its torso, it is not the same health total as main. The main health pool is 250, while 75x4 is 300.
omg thank you guys for bringing this to the light, was really wanting the nerd numbers for this stuff.
Glad I could help deliver them
I think the most interesting stuff to come out of enemy stats is berserkers (the belly weakpoint looks like a fakeout) and stalkers (everything is 50% durable except the head).
Holy shit after three fucking months we FINALLY have the numbers. Thank democracy.
ikr
Only able to skim through this one at the moment, but from my understanding bullet angle on impact matters.
As with the crossbow bolts bouncing off the ground.
Could be wrong, but a bad angle may count the target as having higher armor.
Was testing with the pistol on warriors, and sometimes bullets deflect, seems to be based off impact angle.
So I think this goes to show the love and care the devs put into this game. Its carefully been crafted and planned to have these modifiers and interactions. What a game they have given us.
Tons of moving parts under the hood just wish they'd show a bit more of it off!
Beautifully complex! Thanks for the breakdown
Thought I was one of the few helldivers who love nerd numbers and spreadsheets.
Good work soldier, out here doing super earth's work.
Honestly, after seeing this explanation, and assuming it's accurate, I think they need to seriously reconsider/redesign some major portions of their damage model. It's no wonder balancing is such a nightmare. In fact after seeing the explanation of how limb/body/total health damage is tallied, I can't help but think they re-invented the wheel and did it worse than the original wheel. Battletech has had limb to core damage worked out for decades, and this includes each section having Armor, structure, and critical hit spots (for important equipment), as well as damage transference (i.e. when the left arm has been reduced to zero, additional hits to the arm transfer that damage inward to the next section such as the left torso). And this system has been the backbone of the TT Wargame since the 1980s, and countless Turn Based, RTS, and simulator computer games over the decades. There are even rules to deal with things like scatter shot weapons (cluster missiles, shotguns, shrapnel), fire damage, arc damage, internal explosions (ammo cook offs in a mech, but this could certainly be re-applied to Helldivers). I'm a lifelong fan of Battletech and one of the reasons for my continued playing is the system's relative simplicity that in combinations lead to near infinite complexity. Helldivers could beg, borrow, and steal some valuable lessons from that franchise.
this damage system is fucking horrible. whatever idiot thought he was einstien when he made this needs to be fired cause thats why the balance in this game is destroyed
I'm not a nerd, i don't understand numbers, I shoot and enemy go boom, total caveman. I'd really hope for a video explaining what to do with this new insight in practical terms!
I’ll give it my best shot if we get there
i think the no falloff on the jar 5 explains why it feels so good
Just looking at the weapons chart, holy crap no wonder I love Spear so much.
Also kind of funny the other rocket launchers all have a push value of 25, but Quasar is 40. I have to imagine that explains how Quasar causes funnier ragdolls.
I'm trying to develop a spreadsheet that gives an approximation of each weapon's value in relation to other weapons, and plasma weapons (especially the scorcher) are an absolute nightmare to deal with. It causes every other weapon to be ridiculously underpowered due to the AOE, durable damage, and armor penetration. It's no wonder the Arrowhead developers are having a difficult time balancing the weapons of the game. Even the purifier, based purely on numbers, is an extremely overpowered weapon relative to other weapons due to these properties.
Watching that AC trying to kill a fab from the side at the end was painful
I was running out of time and there was a hulk in the way 🤣
5:28 This is such a silly aside that has nothing to do with the video, but if you ever wondered why you can't dovide by 0, this is why. Dividing by x-x in this case is LITERALLY 0, but in theoratical problems where you don't know x this still applies
Heres my comment to boost the numbers! I want...need to get the in depth per enemy videos of the damage breakdowns!
It’s gonna take alot of explanation but if we get there I’ll try my best
Nerd stats are fun but they also hurt my brain. I think at the end of the day what we want to glean from the numbers is where to shoot what enemy with what gun to get the kill in as few shots as possible. Guess we gotta crunch some numbers.
Yeah follow up vid please. I’m still a bit confused on how damage works and I’m sure others are as well. Nice vid
It’s a lot to work into such a short time frame for sure, doubt it’ll be the last time I talk about it
@@EravinVT I bet!
My brain is melting, thank you for these numbers number man.
Commenting for the algorithm.
I want the follow up videos.
Roger
You know I noticed something interesting. Devastators have two damage entries for the right hip and no damage entries for the left hip. It could potentially mean that that the two hips work different. Perhaps Devastators simply don't take any damage at all in the left hip. Perhaps they take double damage to the right hip, or have right hips have twice as many effective hit points as they are supposed to. Or it could mean absolutely nothing. Would love to know if anyone has tested this.
likely just mislabeled and one is the left one is the right hip
I am curious as to how all of this was found out, because some of these numbers seem incredibly hard to find out. As an example, the arc thrower having ap7, when the highest armor value on enemies is 5.
They looked under the hood
A little bird told us, but the highest armor value on enemies is 6 (See Bile Titan being absolutely covered in 6 parts).
It’s all datamined from the game files.
So the hole Explosiv Dmg System was actually fundamentally broken by Design. So before they made Limbs immune to explosiv dmg, when a rocket hit mit toe, it acutally dealt dmg to my legs and torso - which was enough to kill my total health pool. And that was why rockets/rocket Devestators where the worst enemys in the game at launch?
So when I 500kg bomb a bile titan, and the explosion only hit´s the leg, the titan survives, because the leg is immune to explosion DMG?
Plz Eravin, give us more examples of some edge chases, so I can better understand this knowledge.
The explosive category is still under more thorough investigation but it's starting to make more sense overtime. But yes that first example is exactly why Rocket Devastators always one shot us
Damage/effects should round up for HDs and down for enemies due to there are way more shots coming in at the players vs number of shots going out toward our enemies.
How damage works: You shoot stuff and they lose HP (joking)
True
So true
So true
sometimes*
maybe*
He's just been an Arrowhead dev this entire time slowly leaking us mechanics and curving public opinion. I'm onto you protag-kun.
not quite lol, If I was my trailblazer colors would be in game
I'd pay for that follow up video
Stat videos are my favorite by a long shot
I find it interesting that the gunship thrusters aren't listed as fatal when they might as well be. But I suppose it's not counted as a kill till it hits the ground?
Yeah, killing the thruster likely triggers a script to make it spin out and crash, which *then* kills it.
I once again salute 🫡 you for your service to Super Earth! A true patriot.
Glad to serve, for super earth!
*Laughs in Warframe*
But also, man i love this game's systems!
In the video about Scorcher, you say that explosive damage ALWAYS applied only to Total Health.
So, if I deal just explosive DMG to an enemy body part (which is, for example, 50% to main), and that part is NOT immune to explosive damage, will damage be fully redirected to the Total Health? Or only 50% of damage gonna be redirected and other 50% damage is taken by body part HP?
Like, as an example
Devastator (800 Total Health)
Scorcher (100 Ballistic AP 2 + 100 Explosive AP3)
shots at his Chest (425 Health, 3 AC, 100% to main, 40% durable):
Ballistic DMG is deflected since AP < AC;
Explosive DMG to durable is 100%, but since 3 AP = 3 AC, damage will be halved, which is 50 points of DMG;
But his Chest is immune to explosive DMG, so damage will not be applied to body part, but just to Total Health.
So it would take (800/50) 16 shots from Scorcher to kill him by shooting Chest?
*** Except that Devastator arms (1 AC, 50% to main, 0% durable) are not immune to explosive damage, and in theory they redirect half of explosive DMG (or 50%+50%, if both arms are in inner full DMG radius) to Total Health when you shoot Chest.
Or does immunity to explosive damage mean that if you hit Immune Chest, the explosive damage will only be applied to Chest, and arms won't count any damage even if they're within the blast radius?***
Also, do I understand correctly that we only look at Durable DMG if we're shooting at a Durable body part (durability > 0%), and if durability = 0%, we just count Ballistic Damage + others?
For example:
if AP = 2, AC = 2 and a body part has 0% durability, then we count Total DMG as ---- (100% ballistic DMG + 0% Durable DMG) and divide the sum by two;
But if AP = 2, AC = 2 and the body part has 40% durability, then we count Total DMG as ---- (60% Ballistic DMG + 40% Durable DMG) and divide the sum by two?
interesting info no doubt, many have reached similar conclusions even w/out crunching numbers...
I just hope most folks use it to try and have more fun playing the game, but avoid taking it as gospel...
even tho a lot of it "makes a lot of sense" (now), the info might not be 100% accurate, heck even if the info had came straight from the devs there's the possibility of some not working as intended (being affected by glitches, or unforeseen interactions), but even if it is, those are still subject to change... and since arrowhead has opted to not disclose that info in-game or otherwise, there's an even greater change they won't disclose if they change any of those mechanics...
A lot of this information is not just through testing but the numbers directly from under the hood
Based research, please keep it up
We will!
I knew it. I knew that berserkers have huge hp pool, which basically forces you to break their bodyparts in order to kill them.
I really wish they had a setting like borderlands or apex and other games with damage ticks on screen to display accurate damage numbers 😢
Arch weapons ignore armor, yes? Blitzer can tape the head off a brood commander in like two shots I feel.
They don't ignore armor, but penetration is quite high for most of them. Blitzer has medium AP and Brood's head is only light armor. Arc Thrower has an astounding 7AP, which is more than anything in the game has armor, so effectively that ignores armor. The low damage still means you need a boatload of shots.
Tesla Tower has 5AP.
@@ZedDiDragon Tesla tower has 4 AP, which is disappointing low. Chargers are effectively immune to it. They really should buff it to AP 5.
@@josephburchanowski4636 i forgot about that, thanks for correcting
Looking at the links, what are Chemical Backpack, Prowler (not sure if another type of Stalker or just a forgotten name), Hulk Obliterator, Barrager Tank and Bile Charger?
Some of those are unimplemented enemies
Another excellent video, I find such a thing to be very helpful. Thank you :)
Glad it was helpful and thanks for watching
I knew damage fall off was a thing. Liberator usually 3 taps devastators to the head but from extreme distances it does not
@EravinVT, it'd help me a lot if you could break down the math with an example including the explosion effect. For instance, I see that a Bot Fab has a inside health of 400hp with 100% durable and 4 armor. The Eruptor kills Bot Fabs in one shot to the inside, but it has a damage of 230, durable of 115, and explosion effect of 190, with 3 AP. How does the Eruptor kill the inside of a Bot Fab in one shot?
That’s based on Demolition Force, yet another hidden damage mechanic not mentioned in the video
cant wait for the 3 hour encyclopedia of information that will be every enemy and their parts durability lol
Ugh lol
Learnin' with Eravin'
:D
My only problem with that helldiver armor site is it's just a blob of data. I know that's ingested/used by other sites in a table format, but I'd rather it just be a simple table for each enemy. Meh.
I wonder how "explosionimmunity" is handled for AoE weapons. A basic raider bot is flagged as explosion immune in all parts, but will die to an airstrike. Devastators are flagged as explosion immune to all but the arms, implying that maybe the Scorcher's AOE attacks are hurting the arms, that transfer their "50% to main" damage to its 800 main health pool, perhaps. Maybe explosionimmunity counters AoE damage at an equal or lower AP value but doesn't confer immunity if AP exceeds it?
In short the explosion immunity prevents damage from being done multiple times. There is still the main body of the enemy which will take splash damage, but all the individual body parts if they are explosion immune will not take damage.
Basically look at the total hp of an enemy, that is how much splash damage it will take to finish them. Grenade launcher is 350 splash damage, so it will take 3 shots to destroy a devastator. The arms being vulnerable to splash means that sometimes you'll see the arms blown off while using the grenade launcher or other splash weapons.
_Might_ also be possible to two shot a devastator by targeting the arms. You should be able to one shot an arm with the splash, doing 150 damage to main; if the splash still reaches main and does at least 250 damage, you'll be doing 400 damage required for the 2 shot finish.
Well this definitely answered my question
Glad I could help
I appreciate it
...you know what, at first I thought we didn't need all 50 weapon stats, BUT maybe an extra 2 or 3 would have been nice given all these factors😅
Yeaaah
On bugs i know certain weapons break the armor and you can shoot the squishy parts underneath. But exactly what determines that? Same higher armor class on weapon? explosive?
Durable damage seems to ware down armor
Long have I waited
We finally have the technology