Why Players Struggle against the Automatons in Helldivers 2 - Exploring Game Design
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2024
- By exploring the differences between the Terminids and Automatons in Helldivers 2, I'm able to use aspects of Game Design to figure out why players find the Automatons hard.
This isn't very different from my usual content, but people should expect the unexpected.
Hopefully this makes some sense :) #helldivers2 #gamedesign
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Twitter:
/ g1beongames
The extra content (like music) is found here:
/ @g1beonextras
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References:
Stout, M. (2015). Game Developer: Enemy Attacks and Telegraphing. www.gamedeveloper.com/design/...
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
01:23 - Contradictory Designs
03:43 - Telegraphing Attacks
06:06 - Striking Where It Hurts
08:18 - Conclusion
10:43 - Outro 
Развлечения
![Demystifying Helldivers 2's Difficulty (Or Lack Thereof) [cc]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KtghYzYoAuM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Demystifying Helldivers 2's Difficulty (Or Lack Thereof) [cc]](/img/tr.png)
Bugs: running simulator
Bots: rag doll simulator
Also: Bots have *way* more gameplay issues than bugs.
IMHO bots as a faction are easier *when you are not being ragdolled, staggered or crippled by glitches,* which is... pretty much all the time, if you fight any group of enemies on helldive, lmao.
@@SkywalkerWroc nah, the bots are great design wise. Their rockets are dodgeable and people aren't even complaining the ragdoll, they complain about bullet shooting bots like heavy devastators. So basically fixing their gameplay issues to accomodate the casuals player would be to completely remove bots' ability to shoot back.
@@kaleidoscope3234sun I don’t know what bots you’ve been fighting but the rocket pods from both the devastators and the gunships constantly rag doll me regardless of how I move or run. The only consistent ways to fight them is behind cover peaking out in short intervals (very hard when recent numbers of bots have basically required a frantic retreat any time there is a bot drop)
@@kaleidoscope3234 People aren't complaining about ragdoll? What world you live in? Your comment about dodging rockets goes to show you never played helldive, where you have tons of devastators. Heavy devastators absolutely are a problem as well, so is the stagger that they give. Again: The reason why difficulty of bots is artificially inflated. If heavy armour would negate staggers and ragdolling - bots would be the easiest enemy in the game (long-term Illuminate are likely to be the hardest)
@@kaleidoscope3234 BOO!!! BOO!!!
While watching through this, rocket devastators DO have a warning before they shoot their rockets. They noticeably change their stance and take a bit of a spread before they fire.
Like stryker eureka in pacific rim
They do a little squat before firing, but have no recovery animation after they have fired. Like empty rockets pods
@@G1beonGames they do have a fairly long cooldown before doing it again though?
@chachock6728 No, it is like 5 seconds in between
@@chachock6728and when they do it again, they once again squat. Because this game is a third person shooter, you can use the position of the camera to peak behind cover. This gives you enough information of when to peak the rocket devastators.
The recovery itself is not visual but more based on game knowledge that you automatically acquire after fighting them for a while. It takes a few seconds for them to recharge and once they are ready and you’re in their line of sight, they squat again
Wait until we only have 500 divers fighting squids
I look forward to it! I'll be one of them
Losing is part of the fun!
Real* helldivers know.
In the og they were the first to go in most wars (mostly cause you didnt need at)
@@stuflames4769 Yeah, Winning all of the time is boring.
If the bot community is barely a vanguard, then the Squids are gonna be fighting a skeleton crew
I will be one of them
I enjoy bots way more. You actually engage with their mechanics far more often and it feels more rewarding to be more strategic. Granted now with roaming gunships, bots are far more frustrating since you pretty much have to bring anti air support weapons but regardless, nothing is more fun than fighting factory striders or two tapping hulks.
You dislike the roaming gunships? I bloody love them.
Think about it. Bots were hard when you started, now they're decently easy. The addition of roaming gunships readds that challenge that i believe the bots SHOULD have. The bots SHOULD be harder than the bugs, and the roaming gunships are exactly what they needed. Just my opinion ofc, I'm weird anyway LOL
@@lg_the_idiot791 I hate flying enemies on general. At the very least, termanid flyers are easy to kill despite their numbers.
@@lg_the_idiot791 Multiple people dislike roaming gunships not just because they make the game harder, but also because they force a meta onto the game. You are now REQUIRED to bring a strategem that can handle gunships. Stalwart is not viable. Machine Gun isn't viable. Eagle Cluster Bomb isn't viable. Grenade launcher is definitely not viable. Mines are definitely not viable. Heck multiple orbital strategems aren't viable against the Gunship facilities because they stick to one location. Oh, and don't even THINK about bringing Guard dogs.
Thus you are now stuck with stratagems that at minimum can penetrate armor level 4 (AMR, Autocannon, Quasar Cannon, AC sentry, etc).
Recently, certain buffs made certain stratagems viable (Orbital Gatling Barrage, Spear, HMG, Eagle 110 Rocket Pods), but with the introduction of roaming Gunships, some of these stratagems don't mean jack because they can't target Gunships (Gatling Barrage, Rocket Pods).
I like a challenge, but I would also like to take on that challenge in multiple ways, not being forced to do it one way.
@@Exl6243 The good news is, Gunship patrols are an operation modifier so you KNOW when they will appear and can prepare your loadout accordingly (but Gunship Towers however are still a surprise objective even without the air patrols).
I wish they would do this for the Bug Front (stuff like "Bile Spewer Infestation" or "Hunter Swarms") since those 2 threats require far different weapons and you won't need to bring both to be ready just in case.
@@Lazarultos People have dataminded that we'll will be getting bug modifiers for "hunter" "acid" and "armored" broods. Just from the text it seems likely this will be higher hunter and stalkers spawns, higher spewer and acid variant spawns, and probably medium armor + spawns on missions with said modifiers. We kinda already have this with certain missions having much higher spawns of one kind of bug over others. Just right now it seems completely random because there is no indication to tell the player.
A true helldiver goes where the war needs them
Which is where ever the bots and soon to be squids are! Bug divers aren’t real divers!
I actually love the Automatons, they're a bit easier to juke but some of their missions are mad easy.
Bots have higher skill floor, it's harder to learn how to fight bots
But they also have much lower skill celing. Once you know the bots, it's pretty easy to adapt to higher difficulties.
meanwhile bugs is just pure swarm spam. there is just more enemies. and the enemies bugs have are functionally the same.
Scavenger, Warrior, Elite Warrior, Bile Warrior, Brood Commander and Hive Guard literaly work the same way. only difference is Brood Commanders have more health and Hive guards have some armour.
Meanwhile even the basic troopers on bot side can have various weaponry. on top of that they also can throw granades.
Which means Bot require more tactics. But if you deploy said tactics, bots starts to be very easy.
they are easier to avoid, their weakpoints are more critical, and don't push you out of your fortified position as much
With the heavy enemy spawn rate change you barely get any hulks in bot drops anymore, instead being replaced by more devastators and troopers (both of which are mulched by the autocannon).
I still don't like how rockets can random crit (yes, not only can enemies headshot you, they can random crit you on any point on the body). But I usually wear heavy medic armor so most of the damage is nullified anyway.
@@VeneficusCubesbiggest annoyance with bots is when they have perfect accuracy during very bad weather like fog and dust (fuck Menkent)
@@VeneficusCubesthat is one of the most beautiful descriptions of something I’ve always struggle to say. Thank you. I totally agree.
@@Jewls1 I wholeheartedly agree there, it feels like you were cheated out when you randomly get one shotted by a rocket to the knee out of nowhere
People don't work corners. There. Entire video summarized into a sentence.
Theyll just stand there trying to duel a gun ship.
Gunship: It's over Helldiver! I have the high ground!
Helldiver: You underestimate my power!
It's not though, like straight up it isn't, that's not what the video is about. Also good luck finding corners to work on shitholes like Marfark or Menkent
Yep, was thinking this throughout the whole video. Anyone's who's played a competitive FPS will probably do well against automatons. Cutting line of sight, using cover, rotating to flank while they're focused on a teammate focus firing, are all transferable skills.
meanwhile me perfectly behind cover at a rock,
"explosion"
"ragdolled away from cover"
"insta beamed by the shield boii with limitless amount of ammo, and perfect accuracy from 100meters away"
or
"continues to be ragdolled to critically low hp, not being able to FKING STIM!!!"
"dies"
"fun"
@@nightfalls5462if you get bogged down vs bots, you made an error positioning on the map. Pop in and out of radar and don't pull new patrols or objectives if the team is already pushing one. Try to bait a bot drop between objectives and eliminate it quickly, then take an objective and leave it quickly.
If you get bogged down by bugs you can kite them. If you get bogged down by bots, you already messed up.
cant wait for the gameplay for the Squids to see the jump in difficulty and new tactics that will develop around them.
If they are basically the same as in HD1, ur gonna regret it, Fr.
@@brunomonteiro7788especially with our weapons and not the bullet storms that were Ar’s and Machine Guns in the first one
I definitely remember hating them in HD1. So many shields, defensive ones and lock your ass down ones
Manipulatrive psykers, striking from the shadows, able to materialise from thin air, and litteraly teleport a full squad in your back.
Back then the most important counter was the energy shield, as their psychic manipulation were through blast waves, meaning the Shield could protect you from the AoE... But now ? I fear they will be able to target us more easely.
Imagine this : all the possible effects that could happen... backward controls. Low visibility. Immobilisation. Privation of earing. To see your friends appear as enemies !
@@HammerheadcruiserYeah, that will likely be it, aggressive hit and run teleporters with shields & constructs to lock us down for their heavier units
The main problem with bots is that they stagger you into oblivion while most of them have the ability to shred you down to atoms in a split second.
The enemies are actually way easier to kill than with the bugs you just kinda need to play more carefull which isnt exactly what most people want to do in a hoard shooter.
Yeah, playing on lower difficulties roleplaying john wick has taught me one very important lesson
DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE MARADUER
That bitch is an absolute beast
Easier to kill then bugs, lol that is just factually wrong. There u is any half as much accuracy requirements in the bugs what are you smoking?
@@Ashbringer36 they all have meaningfull weak spots, many weapons can kill every single Automaton that the game can throw at you, if you choose the right primary weapon most bots turn into oneshots with a bit of aim. While bugs are essencially bullet sponges with theyr heavy units only being able to be killed by anti tank weapons.
TLDR: bugs have higher health pools and less meaningfull weakspots. + your only viable tool against bile titants is to have anti tank weapons
@@dripwastaken7884 chargers are far easier to line up your anti tank. Abs if you can’t line up those headshots consistently then that same start is your only option against hulks, even regular old devastators.
And yes lots of people can’t line up a headshot faster then the bots rag doll you for taking a single toe out from cover hence tougher
@@Ashbringer36 Smol bots can be 1-tap headshotted, mid bots can be 1-tap headshotted, large bots can still be headshotted and stunned, and their titan comparable units can be 1-shot by the overwhelming majority of strategems. Wat do you mean they aren't easier to kill than bugs?
I'm curious how the more casual playerbase - and even the hardcore playerbase to an extent - is gonna react when the Illuminate get introduced.
I can already hear the shrill cries of the reddit users and click bait youtubers. . .
"This faction is too OP! They need to nerf the Illuminate immediately!"
"Having your controls reversed is such an UNFUN mechanic!"
"One of my teammates was mind controlled and wiped our entire squad. . . "
@@Jewls1 Exactly! So much clickbait!
It's going to be glorious. I hope the Obelisk returns and they actively work with other ones to box you in. "Welcome to the Thunder dome! 4 Divers enter, none leave."
I think a key paradigm shift are their shields. If they work like our shield generator (completely negating the instance of damage that destroy them, leaving the occupants alive) means 500kg, all current single shot Anti-tank and stratagems will fail to do what they normally do.
Thus any continuous fire stratagem or guns (MGs, Scythe, Laser Cannon, Assault Rifles, etc) and multi instance explosions (clusters and and airburst launcher) gain utility.
Fire will also be worse, shielded targets don't burn.
The psionic powers weren't the worst thing to work against but this is now a 3D environment, which does make reversed controls far more inconvenient.
And given the generally target rich environment and being less durable armour-wise (to balance the shield's properties) meaning accuracy isn't likely to be necessary.
I cannot wait for those videos, its going to be hilarious when all a 500kg does is alert the enemy to your exact location, and they have hit scan lasers like our scythe, Laser Cannon and Rover.
And you thought the Automatons planets looked like Star Wars? We going to Geonosis with this one boys
@@verdanteridium
Did the airburst get buffed?
'Cause its damage was not enough to wipe out squads of mediums or even fodder waves reliably.
When I first started playing helldivers 2 I was a bug diver primarily because I thought the bots were too hard but I got bored with the bugs and started diving against the bots more and more and slowly but surely I began to dominate the bots because I figured out that you need to bring a loadout with some punch and I learned the 3 C's, cover, cover and more cover. I can definitely tell who the bug divers are when they decide to venture into a bot mission with me cause they never take cover and never know what to do when devastators numbers are high and usually end up in a panic or doing panic circles in front of you obstructing your line of fire trying to figure out which way to run
I also learnt that the best way to deal with them is not to hold your ground like against the bugs but to use guerilla tactics.
Hit their bases and run, do the objectives and run, use stealth to infiltrate their bases, when you hit them, hit them hard and quick and be out of there very quickly. You’re only there for the objectives. Destroy their factories from a distance, don’t engage with every enemy you see etc.
Also learned to target the smaller enemies as they’ll be the ones calling for reinforcements. I ignore the devastators and always go for the “reinforcers” first. And smoke just works so well against bots compared to the terminids.
I even changed my loadout to a fun one. Plasma them to stagger them, then switch to auto cannon/HMG to get rid of them quickly. So I’ve pretty much implemented the skill of quick swapping which I’ve learned from Doom Eternal and it feels amazing.
@@jesspeed Doom truly is Eternal.
I see you learned General Brasch's A.B.C.s, Always Be taking Cover.
@@jesspeed I usually just pick heavy tier airstrike stratagems like the airstrike, 500kg bomb or rocket pods, with the autocannon of course. Not even heavy patrols consisting of devastators and hulks can stop me, I can just stun them in place and let the airstrike do the work lol. Guerilla warfare isn't necessary imo.
@@johnnycracker8191 Guerilla tactics might not be necessary all the time, but they do help a lot especially on higher difficulties. There's no extra points for killing enemies so the less shots you take and less ammo you use, the better your condition will be when shit hits the fan and you NEED to fight.
I think the tutorial has a lot to do with it. It establishes two bug enemies as the lowest of the chaff. But you never see a bot during the tutorial - so the entire experience feels like jumping into an entirely new game and skipping the tutorial.
I don't buy that. You have to be explicitly told how to fight an enemy in order for it to be "ok"? This indirectly speaks volumes to how little players pay attention to the mountain of feedback and baked-in genre conventions that have become the norm over the years. The hit markers tell you whats happening for most things, weak spots are all color coded (even if they aren't one shot vulnerable), dismemberment is pretty apparent on both bots and bugs, ineffective attacks almost always visibly deflect.
And if thats still not enough, Brasch Tactics routinely plays in the Super Destroyer vid screen talking about the majority of these very subjects.
And when you boil it down, the only new skill you need to learn to combat bots is to use terrain as cover. Bots are also slower, and less prone to scattering, giving you a chance to properly aim. On top of which, the tips where they tell you to keep kiting when fighting bugs is a little misleading. At higher difficulties, thats a very easy way to run into multiple patrols, and aggroing them. Sometimes you have to plow through a group of bugs to avoid the more dangerous one closing in on you.
From playing multiple different combined arms and hoard games, if theres one thing players usually lack is situational awareness. Threat assessment is a close second. So many are used to killing everything that moves without issue, that they'll routinely waste time and ammo on picking fights they don't need to.
If you wanna learn the secret to Hell Divers, its the Infiltrator armor from the basic warbond. Makes you harder to spot by patrols, while being just squishy enough to want to take advantage of it. The Extra speed also helps. And because it doesn't cover up your bad habits, you get punished swiftly for biting off more that you can chew; yet you also have enough stamina and speed to try and disengage early enough in a fight. I hate switching off of it now, since being able to tread between 2 patrols just saves a lot of threat and time. Especially at higher difficulties where its prone to back to back reinforcement chains.
@@freelancerthe2561 it’s not so much that players can’t figure out bots, it’s more they mentally trick themselves into thinking they can’t. Our monkey brains go “no bot in tutorial = bots are harder that tutorial = bots are hard.” It’s not true, but we animalistically tell ourselves that’s how things go
Real infantry tactics genuinely work Vs bots, so being a sad military nerd kinda helps you conceptualise how to deal with them. And honestly the biggest issue I see with people playing bots is people just being unable to chill the fuck out and stop running around like a chicken. Get close to the ground and use cover even when there's almost none. Don't camp, don't lose momentum, but do go prone often. Keeps you alive do much longer.... Unless there's bezerkers....
It's so true though, being some form of military nerd actually goes a long way against the bots. Just having good discipline when it comes to shooting and movement really helps out. Can't tell you the amount of times just going prone and not firing has saved my arse.
@@G1beonGames prone, cover, digging in and holding onto your position as hard as possible, especially helps if someone can give fire support from another location or delivering perpendicular fire ("enfilading fire" comes to mind). Running from bots is obviously important but it's way riskier than Vs bugs because they have GUNS. Sometimes the thing to do is to bite and hold, it definitely checks your ability to destroy tanks and hulks on demand (another reason why a flanking AMR user and stun grenades can be a force multiplier) but if you can fend those off, good defensible terrain and knowing how to not get shot can turn bots into a turkey shoot.
@@mattjk5299 The problem I found with going prone is that a lot more hits become headshots. There are some times where I was facing Rocket Devastators, told myself "oh, let's try out going prone to reduce explosive damage" and then got obliterated by rocket impact headshots.
@@leonardorossi998 yeah that's not wrong. Though as far as I can tell, enemies are generally aiming for your head anyway, perhaps it'd be more accurate to say that switching from crouch to prone and evasion is all part of "using cover". Rockets feel less dangerous than a couple patches ago but honestly a lot of that can be chance and other subtle learned ways of staying alive that I'm not self aware enough to describe.
One hint someone gave me in other more competitive games is watching your gameplay back, specifically your deaths, but also when things went really well. Wonder if you'd learn stuff about HD2 by doing that.
@@leonardorossi998 Look away from them before going prone, then 180 around so that your feet are towards the enemy. Getting nailed in the foot by a bigass rocket has never been more likely!
As an overly casual player who fights both Factions based on the Major Order.
I think the reason why some people (including myself to some extent) are more comfortable playing the Automatons is that they've gotten so used to Getting shot at, that they forgot what its like to be charged and swarmed.
Hiding Behind the Blessed Rock ain't gonna work this time.
It's one of the reasons why Berserkers terrify me.
When playing against the Bugs, whenever I see a hunter, killing them first becomes my priority.
God, yes. Bugs suck so much more than bots. All I have to deal with the bots is hide behind a rock, and suddenly half of the field isn't a problem. The little guys are perfectly content to just sit back and die, the big guys die to a shot or two to the face with a main weapon. If I dive to the ground, suddenly it's harder for the ones who do see me to hit me, while making me even more accurate. The bugs don't give me room to breath, because they're always in my face all the time there's no way to divide and conquer the battlefield, and there's no "aim here to kill in 2 shots" for the bile spewers, brood commanders, stalkers, etc.
@@TheClaw47 This is why I like the flamer against the bugs, and anything else against the bots.
I always follow the major order. The bugs feel like a vacation compared to the Bots. I enjoy the bot front so much more.
Erm, ackshually, they removed the AA Defences operation modifier in the recent patch. 🤓🤓🤓
Bruh
Now they're just Air Defences
Bruh
they removed the modifier, not the AA defence objective
@@MrTLSfan I know, I didn't say that Arrowhead had removed the Anti-Air Emplacement Objective. Just the operation modifier
Huehuehuehue! Well said! This "git gud" "game knowledge" video game bro doesn't even read the latest patch notes before he makes his silly RUclips videos. Huehuehuehue! We're so smart for pointing this out!
I dont find the bots more difficult, I just find their aim bot stupid, especially when you turn a corner and they already firing at you, or when they hit you from 100 to 200m away with 90% accuracy.
It is worse than that: try this, stay hidden from a patrol, random sentry fire at them from the opposite side. They somehow instantly turn and open fire at you despite you being prone and 100m away.
Bugs do it, but they don’t have many ranged attack, so it doesn’t feels as unfair.
@@briannormant3622I hate how they turn on you a second after you throw a stratagem at their base even if you’re hidden in cover.
Or when they shoot through solid matter. Seriously, I love bots.
But a factory strider peaking its head through an entire mountain and shredding me with its miniguns is. . . infuriating to say the least.
@@Jewls1 Yep. The entire faction is filled with issues and glitches.
Kinda hilarious when G1beon is laughing at people who think bots are easier, when... that's just the reality, lmao. Bots *are* easier when you don't get glitches, ragdolls or staggers. Every single unit in that faction can be killed in less than 15 seconds with a primary weapon. Bugs actually require you to think, bots just require you to aim and pray to RNGesus.
Yes all of you have a point, that even further explains why the bots are so fucked, they are full of bugs and annoying glitches, I like to fight them but they would be 5 times easier without the amount of problems they have.
the funniest part of this to me, is I have always found the bots easier. You can take cover from being shot at to give yourself room to breath most of the time
For me the reason I find them easier is because they have easily exploitable weak points. I can kill a Hulk with 2-4 shots with a bunch of non anti-tank weapons. Tanks drop pretty fast too if you target the vent.
@@Deadsnake989That does not make them easier, the bugs have weak points too but we're not out here saying that's the reason why bugs are easier.
I flippin HATE bugs.. I only fight them for major orders. I'd rather fight 3 factory striders than 1 damn Bile Titan. The bugs are just the absolute worst.
To enjoy them more, I'd want a rework for bugs elite... By making them take damage on their wounded parts. For instance, when a charger get his back broken up, and exposed ? Just like the legs, I'd wish to shoot this part and do physical damage. Which right now is still considered as "armored part".
I understand it will bleed out, but this doesn't make much of sense, if there's exposed organs, it should be easier to hit... And to compensate this change, give them more HP : for armor before breaking, and flesh parts.
Not really, the bots MO is fire and maneuver with heavy ordinance.
I’d take getting chased by a pack of hunters, over getting rag dolled by a dozen rocket devastators from two hundred meters away.
But to each their own, I personally think bugs are a cake walk compared to bots.
I'm primarily a bot fighter, and I mostly love it. I don't enjoy fighting the bugs because I find there is very little strategy beyond run away and bring brrrrt gun. I find them more difficult because there are just so many bum rushing me with very little variation in strategy. The automatons allow me to multitask in my mind; I can balance the encounter around what to expect. The lack of being able to strategize is what ironically cripples me on bug missions
I like how I can be more flexible with stratagem choices and loadouts vs bots, vs bugs I can run just 1 thing and it covers all my needs: medic light armour+breaker incendiary+grenade piston and stun grenades, flamethrower, shield pack, napalm, 500kg - no matter solo or squad. Vs bots I can go shit ton of stuff: stealth sniper build, heavy medic armour for extra stims and explosive prot, engineer passive for more stun grenades and further throw radius on 380mm barrage, a lot of support weapons are viable (I lean towards autocannon mostly cuz its super good, but like I can run anti-material rifle, grenade launcher is okay, etc). And oh god I finally get to use more than 1 primary: I can use scorcher, dominator, punisher plasma, purifier and some other.
Bots just bring more freaking variety with loadouts and I am not bound to flame breaker and flamethrower to be efficient wow
Yeah this is the feel I've gotten after dropping on both fronts many times.
Fighting Bugs is a battle of attrition. It's about mobility and ammunition/resource management to handle the endless hordes of bugs they throw at you every time they breach, and ensuring you have enough Anti-Tank munitions for the Chargers and Titans, and enough bullets for the Hunters and Bile Spewers. The only positioning that matters is how far you can keep the bugs away from you, and whether your can hit Charger and Titan heads with your AT.
Fighting Automatons is more tactical and depends a lot on your ability to identify and neutralize different threats. Unlike Bug Breaches (which spawn bugs in waves), Bot drops deploy their load all at once and you immediately see the troop composition as they are air-dropped in, and their position/formation. You can identify Tanks, Hulks, and Devastators the moment they drop in, decide which ones are the worst threats, and use the right weapons/stratagems to eliminate them ASAP while leaving milder threats for later. Your own positioning matters a lot since you need cover between you and the worst of the enemy guns, and an escape route which also provides cover as you run if you cannot effectively fight the enemy platoon that just dropped in. Winning a fight with the Bots depends largely on how well you can identify which threats are the ones you cannot avoid or ignore, and eliminating them to buy you time to take out the rest of the hostiles on the field.
The play styles you need to develop for either faction are very different and I'm glad the game offers such a varied combat experience. This makes me look forward to when the Illuminate gets released and what new play style or tactics it will demand of players on a 3D environment (compared to the Illuminates of the 1st game)
here the stratergy to deal with bug breaches, time your stratagems don't throw them all in one go because the bugs come out of breaches in waves(best use stratagems that have prolonged effect and last for awhile) and the closer you are to it the better since you can react to it.
the problem with quick play games is that everyone is everywhere so bug breaches could happend away from you which give the bug more time to spread out and scatter in different directions would be easier to handle if the whole team stick together since that would make the bug funnel through the same spot.
I think the reason some people think the bugs are harder is because they get so used to the mindset of fighting the bots on harder difficulties for long periods of time, then get whiplash when they instinctively fight the bugs the same way on harder bug difficulties.
I purely hate the bugs just because theyre annoying bro, the acid spits that slow you down, the fact some can lose half their body and still 2 shot you, the stalkers, etc
@@wahabeez stalkers and hunters are why i dont play bug side
@@brainlesstoaster try using pummeler and senator, or jar and a high RoF pistol. Head on a swivel and a gun with stagger drastically reduces Stalker threat. Being able to run from Hunters while shooting them is great. This loadout needs a support weapon like AC, HMG, GL, EAT, or FT.
I need to learn the timing to melee counter Hunter pounces.
this is exactly why we need a long bot campaign like we had with the termicide and meridia and allat, it'll help players actually learn to stop running around and instead press c on their keyboard.
it's pretty funny to be honest, with the bugs you want to be always on the move, but with the bots you want to be slow and quiet. It's exactly why stealth challenges are always done against the bots (specifically on marfark because of the snowstorms, I love that planet so much) and never on the bugs.
Especially because the bugs can 'smell' you according to an interview with Arrowhead (if I'm remembering it correctly). Which basically makes stealth not truely possible against them.
We had swift disassembly which ended in 400k+ people playing on malevelon creek
I've seen it swing both ways with finding each faction difficult. When my buddy came over from the bot front to fight the bugs, he struggled due his bot fighting strategies constantly finding him swarmed and overwhelmed. Now our squad bounces back and forth between factions to follow MOs or fight whomever we are feeling insulted managed democracy more that day.
That's definitely something that occurred earlier on when I was playing, switching fronts was a challenge. Because stratagies that work on one front don't work on the other. But with time and practice, it's only minor. (Especially because I need to keep switching fronts in order to get footage of both)
The thing early on that really got me into focusing bot missions was their bases. I love all the buildings, fences, walls, towers that bases bring to the game. It feels rad as hell to storm up the trenches into them, or even better to jet pack over all their walls for a big flank.
That kind of tactical positioning is something I miss when I play bugs.
My only gripe with bots is that devastators are impossible to avoid in low visibility planets if you're not already aware where they are. It would be both nice QoL and immersive if they did that red eye scan thing in low visibility planets they do when first detecting you when they attack, as they're also meant to have their vision disrupted by weather, and having them scan for you before firing a rocket salvo would give you a chance to notice where the attack is coming from
I habitually change direction of travel even out of combat vs bots and will drop prone if I hear something that isn't on radar to see if it approaches. Bots(other than MG types) will miss if you time Strafing at close range. Nothing they do has tracking. Far out, you will make them shoot well away from you with slight directional variation every couple seconds.
Solo Helldive Automatons player here; I sincerely agree with the idea that bugs can be harder than bots, particularly when performing a mission on solo.
I believe this because the bar for performance in bots is mostly predicated on game knowledge and tactics, while the bar for performance in bugs is generally damage output and crowd control. As a solo player on any mission with either faction, you lose three quarters of your damage output, but lose none of your game knowledge. Hence, bugs become significantly harder than bots when alone.
That's an excellent point that I didn't even consider! I don't play solo, or not very frequently anyways. I'm always running with a squad of randos, so I've always got at least one other helldiver with me. Though when it comes to missions, I tend to be very solo in the group. With most of the squad going off to do something else while leaving me completely alone. But yeah, that's a very good point. Thank you!
I’m lvl 100+ in this game and the sheer number of bots per mission is absolutely busted right now. Seems like 75% of enemies have rockets now too. I saw someone in the comments say ragdoll simulator and I think it’s totally accurate for this post patch experience
I remember playing on Helldive when the patch dropped, and I was like. I don't remember there being this many devastators being present. I enjoyed the challenge, but every patrol was sporting at least an extra 2 Heavy and Rocket Devastators
Lol I was showing my brother the game and he said something almost like that "dying simulator" since I was just being rocketed a million times and flying all over the place lol
I'm primarily the AMR gunner so I just looked at it as more things to shoot at. 😊 I'll take more RD over hulk anyway. It's hard to hit their eye while moving and waiting to stun them when close distracts from taking out the other heavies.
people complain about rocket devs but what really peeves me are the rocket raiders (footsoldier bots with RPGs). it makes sense for the devastators to be armed with the rocket pods as standard since they're a heavy, and when i see or hear one i know to take appropriate caution, but ive been screwed so many times by a single RPG raider that i missed or neglected due to that kind of enemy usually being chaff. It's crazy that so many of them are carrying rockets to me. I would expect more MG troopers if they want to ramp up the firepower of the chaff
helldivers 2 is one of those games where you can see exactly what it wants to be, and it’s SO close to being literally perfect.
If devastators were squisher to compare to mid tier bug units, and if rocket devastators couldn’t detect you from SO FAR AWAY..
I can see the bot front being more liked. The serious split in players does make me hesitant to a third faction, though..
The devastators could use some tweaking, they're a bit too tanky and could have a more obvious weak point on their backs. Especially when it comes to the Rocket and Heavy variants.
The rocket devs always fire where you are and never where you are going, so as long as you aren't running in a straight line. You will (likely)be fine!
Game already is perfect
I think what they should do is give the bots more infantry variants with Heavier firepower. Shotguns, Lmg’s and Quad rockets on top of the pistols rifles and bazzookas they already have
Welp, the third faction Will be basically weak against automatic weapons with high rpm, since they use shields. They dont have a lot of high armored enemies, except for the tripod. But they do have energy shields, snipers that could kill you from any distance, teleportation, mind controlling Powers, they could make barriers that would stop us from fleeing, and last but not least, invisibility Lmao, welp, at least that is what they used to have. And they are the ones responsible for making us lose the war a couple of times in HD1.. god illuminates are such a pain in the ass, bug divers Will cry a lot about it
Bots are more intimidating on the outside, but once you pay attention, they're dead easy.
You can defend against them by taking cover. They reward precision. Only two kinds of bot can call for help, and if you're quick with it, you can abort those reinforcements early, unlike a bug breach where you're forced to deal with a clown car of enemies coming in the moment any bug so much as whispers for help.
Except when they shoot right through the walls.
Yeah but... the objectives for bots are just so much harder. Gunship spawner? Sorry, you can only use a helldbomb, and if you dont take out the gunships, the gunships will tkae out your hellbomb. Strider? Sure, drop a 500 kg. Pretty unlikely youll kill it though, and if you so much as exist in front of the strider youll be disintegrated by its machine guns. Not complaining about bots, i actually prefer them, but claiming they are easier than bugs is 90% wrong. Whenever i want to chill, i just use the breaker spray and pray and the stun grenades on bugs, and their main strength, swarming a ton of little guys on you, is no longer an issue. I play bugs when i want to take a break from bullet hell.
@@nostillno1912 The Strider is pretty easy, with a laser cannon, AMR or HMG, just shoot it's belly, the Gunship fabricator is a bit annoying, but I just Leeroy Jenkins that thing and it works 98% of the time. Meanwhile with bugs I end up just feeling tired, tired of running tired of bull dancing with the Charger, but everyone is different, I started with bugs but after playing bots, I realize bugs are much more annoying to me.
@@Rhinosaurfish id def agree bugs are more annoying, but not easier. I use the spray and pray to deal with those annoying white bugs, it can wipe a group of them within like 1-3 seconds. once the annoying tiny little white bastards are gone, it becomes much easier
It helps that you can destroy the striders frontal machine guns as well as the dorsal turret. Makes life a whole lot easier.
I find this analysis so interesting because to me, at Trivial level the bots are a bigger threat, but at Helldiver difficulty I generally struggle more with the bugs if all things
That's never been the case for me on the highest difficulty, but every player's experience is different. I'm probably going to look into this further, because you're not the only one who's said that. At a design level, the bots are harder. But, maybe, it could be due to player's previous experience with other games. Or something to do with the bugs design overall that I might be missing.
@@G1beonGames I haven't done much research so I only have my own experience to truly rely on, but it may have something to do with the different sort of pressures the factions apply. With the bots, even when I'm in the middle of a difficulty 9 fire fight, I can usually find some cover to make a call in for an air strike to try and clear out a cluster of enemies to gain breathing room. With the bugs, they not only feel to come in much higher numbers, but their melee focused nature forces me to almost constantly moving if I get caught up in a fight for any prolonged period of time. Having to coordinate evasive movement while also performing the call ins is significantly trickier than just hunkering down, so I guess that's why the bugs feel worse at 9. At 1 the bugs don't show up in high enough numbers to apply that same pressure, so the bots range advantage plays a more significant role at the lower difficulties.
But like I said earlier, haven't done any actually research, this is just based on my own personal experience.
same, I find bots far easier
devastators rockets still need a long cooldown they can shoot u every 4 seconds or so, there's almost no room to do anything if there are 10 of them close to u
Sounds like real life. Rockets sure can fire their whole load in seconds........ maybe suggest that it takes time to lock on to you as a nerf? That makes more sense. 👨🚀🚀
uhm… krill issue
1. funny as hell
2. stratagems will be at your disposal if you manage them correctly
3. avoiding enemy encounters is an option too
4. if there are 10 of them around you can always banzai/bail and reposition
Cover, cover and more cover
Drop, stun grenade, reload or stratagem, stun grenade, unleash Democracy, 💀X10
As an experienced player bots just feel so much more fair. You don't get swarmed ever, and rarely get snuck up on. Most importantly it never feels like I don't have a solution to a problem they face me with. This is because 1. they're easier to run away from, and 2. every enemy has an exploitable weak spot that can be taken out with the autocannon. The worst feeling is when I'm useless because my 500kg is on cooldown and I'm up against a bile titan.
It’s also got a lot to do with what weapons are currently in a good place. Even lore wise, it would make sense for divers to focus on the front they have the tools to succeed at.
This is the issue. I have seen so many video essays like this that are arguing that the mechanics are the reason why bots are harder. But the reality is for a significant chunk of the games life*, we've had few weapons good at dealing with medium armored enemies and the bots would spawn dozens of them every drop. So players very easily get overwhelmed on objectives.
The telegraph difference canonically makes sense. Animals are notorious for evolving telegraphs right alongside their other traits.
But robots don’t need to telegraph. In fact, they’re wiser (or rather more strategically designed) to not.
I always felt like the bots are way easier than the bugs because bots have clear hittable weakpoints so you can actually be more effective with higher accuracy whereas the bugs are more about pure volume and crowd control.
That does not make them easier though, bugs have weak points too but we're not out here making think pieces about how easy they are because of weak points.
@@scottroxford5715 who hurt you
@@maulbrook5263 THE BOTS DAMNIT I'M TIRED OF PEOPLE DOWNPLAYING THEM, I WAS THERE ON MALEVELON MAN, THE TREES WERE SPEAKIN BINARY!!
agree 100%
@@scottroxford5715 i was there too bro and they were easier than the bugs for me
One thing you missed is the fact that every strategem has some use against the bugs, but many are nearly useless against bots like the flamethrower, gas strike, fire nades, manned turret, tesla tower, etc
The bots also have so much long range anti tank that any vehicle that exist or will be added in the future will have limited usefulness.
Cyborgs in helldivers 1 had plenty of ranged units but it wasn’t nearly as much nor as potent as automatons which is why HD1 had better faction balance.
Another excellent point! Unfortunately, that point ended up on the cutting room floor for time reasons when it came to the video
I mean, with exosuits, if you prioritize a cannon or tank when spotted, they're not that difficult to deal with. Factory Striders too. Fire does work against the bots, as does gas (corrosive damage), and the manned turret is great, especially on defense, evacuate civilians, and mineral vein missions (Good positioning on other mission types can also be viable, especially after the recent buff to the HMG emplacement's turn speed). I haven't tried the tesla tower against bots, but I'd imagine it'd be really niche at best. But the majority of stratagems are useful, it just goes down to situation and execution.
And if we ever get faster moving vehicles like that armored transport and jeeps teased a while ago, we may be able to out-speed turrets/tanks, too.
Great break down! Love your analysis of these games. You do a great job putting words to what makes this so fun!
I actually find bots easier than bugs at this point, at least at Difficulty 8 where I play. I can kill all of them with an AMR and get around the medium armor of anything short of Hulks with a plasma shotgun. Terminids require me to have tools and movement to get behind chargers while dealing with a million other bugs, or else have the appropriate strategem or anti-tank weapon. You never need anti-tank weapons against the bots.
It's the same on difficulty 9, only you get ragdolled more, or killed by a random issues with the game, lol
Little tip for Spewers ... get close and personal ...their Meelee attacks are weak and they wont spew on you in meelee distance
I think most player start with the bugs and go to the bot front on a high difficulty and get destroyed. Therefore, thinking the bots are harder, but it's because they didn't learn the bot mechanics on an easier difficulty.
Yeah bot missions difficulty 5 and below are stupid easy. There’s also the fact that you need to be getting better strats and gear to fight bots at higher levels. Some lvl 20 something that got carried through 7-9 bug missions, swapping over to bots won’t have that knowledge or the right gear to fight effectively.
I like to think lore wise, is that the automatons were built to counter helldivers. The cyborgs set up some sort of contingency based on their loss
I imagine so. And that just makes the design of the bots even better, can't wait until we get to cyberstan
I feel like a lot of bug divers fail to realize you can outrun bots much more easily.
Yeah, none of them are fast enough to catch you aside from gunships and maybe scout striders
The only enemies that annoy the piss out of me are the Heavy and Rocket Devs. Pinpoint accurate with little down time and the possibility of them headshotting you to boot, flinching every time I get hit making me aim to the sky, ragdolls that can happen over and over again, can and will shoot through walls sometimes negating cover and scores upon scores of them appearing in missions without the Gunship patrols present. I know the strats to kill them. I bring the right tools/loadout to do it. But volume of fire combined with pinpoint accuracy and walls not being a safe place to hunker down and aiming to the sky when one even so much as looks at me just make them unfun and I avoid them unless a M.O. comes in.
And even the patch notes said they fixed an issue with them being able to shoot at you in angles that make no sense. And they still suck to fight.
Zoning is everything with bots, managing angle and range. Its why tanks are so relatively harmless - they're low and slow so you can keep them from finding an angle. The design weakness of automatons otherwise is allowing you to use stationary reload strat weapons.
Bots in some ways are way easier. I can sit on a mountain 2 miles away with a spear and clear 4 bases without ever being shot
I'm exclusively a lv 100+ bot diver and there are two enemies that I hate the most. Shield devastator and gunship, and the former is one that I hate much more than the other. Gunships can be taken down reliably by exactly one primary in the game that being the scorcher, and it takes more than a mag to do so. Their spawner can't be taken down by orbitals or eagles, and neither can the ships themselves.
You have to use support weapons or rely on teammates to take them down and many times you've got the veggie tales squad running around so that's not an option. So one of your strat slots is relegated to autocannon/amr/laser cannon/spear/recoilless. Tough luck if you like using the railgun or HMG, both of which are absolute piss at dealing with them, and also happen to be the ones I like using.
Shield devastators are straight up retarded. It fucking aimbots you through rocks all while not even looking at you. It takes like one second for them to reload. Rocket devastators are nowhere near lethal as they used to be, and the aimbot devastator far eclipses them now, they didn't use to be this cancer. I'd rather fight 5 rocket devastators in the open than one shield devastator close to me. Because you can literally just outmaneuver a rocket devastator. If you're close enough to just one aimbot devastator you're dead, and trying to shoot back just bullet flinches you. 5 aimbot devastators in a row? Forget it you're just cooked. Absolute worst enemy in the entire game.
The bullets literally track you and you can see them comr out of the barrel at 90º angles qt times. Berserkers are just too tanky and absolute bullshit enemies
The worst part about Shield Devastators is that they shoot THROUGH their shield, meaning from certain angles you can't hit their face and they cheese you to death, they just flat out cheat at life and I hate them for it.
A large part of their lethality is also due to the weird and over-engineered player health system. The damage you take is a casino, and with how often they shoot, they are constantly rolling the dice. At this volume of tries, it is very likely that they will hit you in the head through sheer brute forcing of the RNG. Their DPS can already kill you in seconds with bodyshots, but if you get particularly unlucky they can just roll a double headshot and erase you the split-second you peek out of cover.
The fact that they turn on a dime and you can't out-turn their aim at close range even when sprinting in light armor also feels wrong.
I really wish they'd just redesign this enemy. Just split it up and have a separate Shield Devastator and Heavy MG Devastator.
Or at least penalize them for being loaded with the super-heavy machinegun and everything-proof shield by severely limiting their turn rate and/or not allowing them to shoot while moving, or something.
how many hours do you have on the game?
HMG eats gunships for breakfast
Overall with this game is easy to pick up but hard to master if you truly want to get into the harder difficulties
Would be great to have underground areas on the bugplanets. That would remove the stratagems for that portion of the mission and raise bug difficulty level. That would also mean no BT or shriekers for that portion.
That gives me Geonosis vibes from the clone wars
great video with some fun editing. Each of your transitions was well paced and had good animations. Keep up the good work!
I'll do my best 😁
"Bots are hard" divers when I bring a riot shield and Fortified armor to negate 75% of their attacks
"...Power? Certainly not in their primary"
Me- * Caresses Plas-Punisher Deviously *
Perfect Berserker Counter
@@autistic_m4a3_76w_hvss And if you pair it with amr it is insane if you can hit quick shots between stuns
Okay, maybe not all primaries. 😆
Compared to the Jar 5, it surely takes longer to kill Berserkers and Devastators, but can lock them down very quickly, and it's much more efficient against troops and scout striders... if you can stand having to constantly reload
problem is the bots cheat, they shoot through walls and rocks and can see you from across the map
I regret to inform you that this is Infact not cheats, just glitches. If only it were so simple. At least it’s as bad as the bug glitches. Every source of high ground turns into getting mauled by the ground because they are inside it.
Great analysis on the whole. I'm glad there's some game design content out there, the faction design in this game is really fascinating. You mightve hit the nail on the head with how many of the bot enemies are very deadly, require careful dismantling and targeting, and while they feature obvious weaknesses, will easily screw you over if you're even a little bit unlucky. I say this as a career botdiver who'd rather get ragdolled across the map than run away from hunters and dodge bile half the game.
The bot game plan is all about knocking you out of your comfort zone and putting you on the back foot, with no regard for their own forces, expecting that waves of suppressive bots will eventually run you down. You're meant to win by repositioning, dismantling and crowd controlling the threat, even while pieces of your team are flying around the map via rocket boosts and getting deleted by cannons. That is, by far, obviously the intent, and can't change or what's even the point of the bots. It's nice to see someone gets that it is the idea, and is a valid piece of design (but most players are babies).
Ultimately the draw of this game is watching tough enemies fall apart after you correctly apply pressure, after they've given you a lot of pain. Really not unlike dark souls in that way. Thats why a lot of the BS is almost required, though yeah heavy and rocket devs really need to be a little clearer with when they're about to ventilate you.
I would say bots have a higher difficulty floor but bugs have a higher difficulty ceiling. Like once you know the game you can take down the bots heavy units relatively easily with the exception of factory striders at times. But with the bugs once you have 2 bile titans and 3 charger behemoths on you while also getting swarmed by chaff it can become a big slog to try to get out of there and requires a lot of creative tactics and maneuvering. My teams have some times resorted to supply drops on chargers or BTS because we were drained of supplies by the amount of them there. Which I think is a cool design feature personally
I cant play bugs i die and just die
Ngl, i Find bugs to be Harder and worse than bots, since bugs overrun you really fast and Bots come from distance and you can shoot from behind cover and there are less enemys and more are accually easy to kill. Same for us, tho i had more fun with bots than bugs.
overrun? there is no bug other than charger that can overrun you in light armor
@@ouzelswing4529 well hordes of enemys that just attack close range. So hiding behind cover aint working. And bots only have 4 enemys that are mele and they Make more sence for me to fend Off.
@@Th3MousyMouse than you just run and they cant do anything about that.
Against bots if you run you can be shot, if you take cover you'll face hulk with flamethrower or factory strider
@@ouzelswing4529 Id rather have those than bugs
@@Th3MousyMouse fair enough. for me its way easier to press shift and then call a few eagles to solve all of the bug problems
It’s really learning how to fight again and unorganized force vs a semi formal fighting force
Excellent video. This channel is underrated af. Keep up the good work and you're gonna go far with the quality of content you're making! ;)
The bot are easier than the bugs.
cope
the bugs are to easy only annoying thing about them is when they lick you, i find the bots the most fun and easier to play just run and gun, blow some stuff up and keep going
Exactly, the bugs just annoy me with the debuffs. I like being able to move freely
Who woulda guessed getting licked by a Terminid is either like getting kicked across a football field or stabbed with a ketamine needle?
@@G1beonGamesThats why I use the shield backpack, it really puts a damper on their ability to slow you down every 3 seconds.
I've fought bots so much that the bugs are a harder challenge for me because I'm not used to their play style.
Basically facing an army where the majority of units try to melee you vs army where the majority of units have guns.
Three (well actually 5) words
Cover, cover, and more cover
That's decent advice, but I suggest cover
@@MrVelociraptor75 pretty good, but I'd suggest more cover
I’d argue automatons can be a bit easier at the moment than the bugs, if you know what you are doing. While fighting bugs is about crowd control, fighting the automatons is more about holding better positions. The bots are much easier to outrun if you are outgunned, and simply using this to retreat to a superior position can make the difference between a victory and a blood bath.
Another nice thing about the Automatons is that they offer significantly more loadout flexibility than the bugs, Assault Rifles, DMRs, and even weapons like the Scythe are significantly better than they are against the bugs, same thing goes for a lot of the support weapons and stratagems, rather than just shoehorning in AT, shotguns, and medium pen weapons being just outright better (which is the nice thing, as medium pen and AT are still very much helpful against bots still)
Meanwhile illuminate: Ranged, melee, tankier, faster enemy
What do you mean automatons are harder than bugs?
Automatons:
- slower, thus easier to run from them
- easy fabricator 1-shot with quasar or auto cannon (I prefer quasar for the wider angle)
- less bots compared to bugs; makes for easy pickings from far with a sniper (I use the CS)
- strategy’s just to sneak, stratagem, run
Bugs:
- chases you down wherever the fuck you are
- detects you wherever the fuck you are
- can rarely outrun them
- rarely able to snipe bug holes from far and run
- 3 behemoths after you at once is no joke
Oh yeah, even a Bile Titan get's a sniff on you, he will chase you to the ends of earth, alerting the nearby patrol enemies and then:
*Bug tunnel breatch*
Bugs don't shoot you with lasers of hate. Oh and rocket spam.
@@jondmontoto oh yeah? Bots don't have stealth-clocked enemies who *will* tear you apart.
Bots do hunt you down. They investigate everything that happens. They'll even drop tanks on top of cliffs. Plus if the bots are so easy why don't we have the anti-tank mines?
I absolutely agree lol the bots just demand situational awareness but the bugs are an endless wave of bile and carapace.
The bots mortars are a static thing while the bugs have the big green ticks that are basically a roaming mortar squad (that also slows you if you get hit)
1 word. Ragdoll
One word. Cover.
Funnily enough, I find the terminids harder than the toasters.
Im not saying bots are easier, but I can handle the bots better overall, since stealth and shock and awe tactics are more available against the bots and they stay far enough away for stratagems not to hurt friendlies.
In contrast, bugs swarm you and make it hard for divers to use stratagems without hurting themselves as well as chase you around for longer, making stealth weaker.
That is at least how I see it (mostly, screw rocket devastators) but I totally get why most people would find bugs easier to fight than bots, since all you need is enough firepower for the crowds and at least one option for the heavies to succeed.
When I first started helldivers 2 I played against bots initially; when I eventually moved over to the bugs, I found them way more difficult due to the different design principles mentioned in the video; I had no idea how to deal with half of the bugs since they had larger health pools with no apparent weak spot, and the acid was aggravatingly constant with the hunter swarms. I have since improved against the bugs, but I think what deters most people is actually just the change in design being perceived as increased difficulty as opposed to, just, being unfairly difficult; having game knowledge on bots makes them substantially easier and half the playerbase only has game knowledge on bugs.
They are redesigning automatons to be less challenging and to encourage higher participation. And please note thet they removed AA defences in the recent patch!
*any helldiver who thinks that Bots are harder then Bugs never had the chance to experience damn stalkers at diff 9*
Stalkers?! I WISH it was the stalkers because these FREEDOM-HATING bile and nursery spewers are a bane of my existence!! Going from Bot to Bugs these fatasses are tanky, strong, and quiet too
Been there, bots are harder. Keep truckin on crimsica boyscout, your menial grunt work serves super earth well
@@penguinmaster11321 I play *only* on helldive. The sole reason you might be thinking that is ragdolling and glitches. Otherwise, let's be real here: Bugs *are* more difficult.
@SkywalkerWroc your passive war against mindless animals is appreciated, without you we'd have to divert valuable personnel from the real war. Truly doing your part bug janitor
bro called the illuminate squids
Bots are my favorite enemies to fight. They were also my intro into Helldivers 2, after the tutorial, on Maleveon Creek.
The enemy design in HD2 is not very good. For example, the charger behemoth can survive shots to the head and the squishy rear but if you tickle any of its legs with a flamethrower it instantly dies.
The enemy design in Doom Eternal was really good. Your entire kit was OP but if you're not good at managing it you'd die. Plus the game does a good job of teaching about enemy weak points
Anti "TANK" rocket : 800-900mm Pen
Behe Charger's head : NO
@@thaimember1 Yeah it doesn't make sense. HD2's armour system is way too complex. I don't think even the devs fully understand it.
I'd love to see them play their game on at least DF7.
@@thaimember1 Chill, if you press [w] it will actually kill the Behemoth.
Because the game is *that* fkn broken.
Use cover. Aim at the head/weak points. Maintain positional awareness. Disengage from overwhelming forces. Be quick.
It's not rocket surgery. It's a skill issue.
Rocket devestators telegraph theor attack.
They do "high crouch" bracing themselves for shooting from their rocket launchers.
Then they return to their neutral position.
The Rocket devsatators have a visual anticipation animation with that squat, but have no visual recovery afterwards. No empty rocket pods, or reloading animation. I probably could've been clearer with my words, especially with the 'visual' part of the recovery. That's where I was going with that point
@@G1beonGames yes they have they go straight, maybe walk few meters then they will brace themselves and shoot.
I play both and fine them easy as hell.
Primarily, bring crowd control stuff for the bugs and higher penetration stuff for the bots.
Theres a key difference in which bugs are more meaty and "weaker" in the prospect that they use quantity or quality to overwhelm.
Bots rather than mass producing themselves, put more emphasis on armour and firepower.
Take heavier weapons and ALWAYS have cover against bots. Come up with an attack plan with yuor squad because the bots are susceptible to being flanked whereas bugs are always hot on your tail.
In all honesty, alternate between factions. Theyre both really fun in their own ways.
*Just dont expect the tactics you use for a faction to work on the others*
Contradictory Designs? CONTRADICTION? IS THAT A MF’ING ACE ATTORNEY REFERENCE?!?! (also AAI 2 is finally coming to every country other than Japan, so yippee!!!)
I heard about Ace Attorney Investigations collection is coming in September, was thrilled to hear about it. Waited a very long time for the second one to make it west side.
Objection! *Furiously points*
HOLD IT!!!
Bots: Crazy Fun. Hard, but rewarding
Bugs: Gamer Daycare
"I don't like an enemy who can shoot back" -bugdivers
Dear lord, when the illuminates arrive I *PRAY* for the entire player base that think the bots are hard🙏. They are *NOT* prepared for teleportation, mind control and speed the illuminates have. 🙏🙏
I don't like fighting bots because they're frustrating in ways I don't enjoy playing against. It has nothing to do with difficulty.
The bots aren't "more difficult" than the bugs. The things that make them difficult at higher levels are just frustrating to deal with in a way I don't enjoy.
They "rely on armor" but really, all that means is that the best counterplay to bots isn't to use weapons that are specifically designed to be good at fighting them-something a diverse weapon base should enable players to do-but instead to just install an aimbot that auto-targets their weak points.
And I say this because the weapons that have the capacity to make it easier to target and deal damage to those areas-the various sniper rifle type weapons in the game-do not actually have the rate of fire necessary to deal with massed hordes of bots.
The bots also employ mass fire power tactics, but don't recoil almost at all from taking return fire. They just do not care that they're getting shot at, and will stand out in the open and fire wildly at the general area the player is located in.
These are not tactics associated with actual fire engagements. They're just features added to encounters with the bots that make them irritating to play against, because of the literal best strategy to engage bots... Is to not engage them.
That's it. That's the secret. Avoid combat at all costs, and take out their structures with the longest range options you have available when you absolutely must.
I know, because I've done it, and seen others do it. The game itself encourages it. Which is frustrating to me, because I did not pick up Helldivers 2 to play a shitty stealth game (because, as stealth mechanics go, Helldivers' are especially shitty.)
Yet if I want to fight the bots, that's the game I'm forced to play.
For example of much, Much better games that force you to fight other ranged units, look at literally any Halo FPS game. You'll notice the dramatic differences very quickly, and see why it's a better experience.
Définitly, as long as you play passive, run and use distance. Bots are perfectly managable.
But it is the problem: first it doesnt feat the Spirit or the game, and it is not what people play helldiver for:
The whole intro scene has no mention of automatons. I bough thé game to fight endless swarm of monstrous bugs, to constantly bye on the edge of being overrun.
Another interesting behavior from the bugs is that if you pay close attention, you can notice that they are actually trying to actively encircle you, to cut off any escape routes for you, when engaging, some of the bugs always try to sneak around you, instead of fighting you head on, which is really cool imo
I noticed that things like turrets and the small bots with single rocket launchers (I forget the name) will often flash red a split second before they attack you. That in addition to them physically aiming at you for a few seconds is the tell that they're attacking. The problem with the devastator rocket guys is that there is no cooldown between when they can launch a salvo, no reload animation, just salvo after salvo of rockets. They aren't particularly accurate rockets, but the volume of fire makes up for it, especially when there's more than one. Supposedly bots will become 'suppressed' when shooting at them but it's hard to test something like that when you're more focused on actually hitting and killing them than trying to shoot in their general direction and hoping that keeps you alive.
However, I think the main reason people typically play against bugs is because of Starship Troopers. It was the same in Helldivers 1: in HD1 it was hard for me to join a war in which the bugs hadn't been defeated already, and the people in it for their Starship Troopers fix who didn't want to fight cyborgs or not-Protoss left the war for everyone else to finish. I never got to see the boss enemy for the bugs.
Fighting against bugs in HD2 does feel like a bombastic power trip to a large degree, while fighting against the Automatons can play more like a stealth action game or a tactical shooter depending on how you and your team approaches it. I personally like fighting both factions, and it's good to change it up every once in a while.
EDIT: What pisses me off most about bots is when you shoot them and they go into a stagger animation but they will still be sliding towards you at full speed as if they hadn't been hit. This is especially bad on the berserker bots. Why even play a stagger animation if they don't get staggered?
Channel is funny and informative. Deserves more subs
Criminally good content for such a small channel. GG
Good video my man!
At first, I was excited when they patched the firing angles of the bots to prevent heavy devastators from shooting at 90 degree angles. Unfortunately that seems to have made the bots absolutely laser accurate at all times
Meet the Sniper
The bugs feel like combine soldiers, they sprint at you but get blown up easily
And the bots feel like doom 2 soldiers, as they don’t care and just shoot you to dust
I prefer to play the major order. The only reason I leave the bot front is because Super Earth needs me on the bug front. And the only reason I leave the bug front is because Managed Democracy needs me on the bot front.
For Liberty
It’s insane to say the bugs are harder than the bots. A level 9 bug mission is equivalent to like a level 7 bot mission. It isn’t even close
I honestly use the bugs to farm for samples when I need them, they are far easier to deal with
I prefer fighting the automatons, specifically cause when I land shots with explosive weapons it feels so satisfying
This is some quality content. Personally, I feel more "in control" when fighting the bots. I'm a decent marksman, and I believe that's why they're not too difficult for me, as they have clear exploitable weakspots.
As a casual player who plays on the bot front when I try to fight the bugs I find something off and when I get hit by a bug I am dead because I can’t get up
You can absolutely tell when a rocket devastator is about to fire a salvo. Adjusts its legs to stand shoulder width apart and leans forward, while lowering its blaster arm.
I think the biggest problem for players is just getting stun locked from getting hit by lasers. That is why so many players take the shield backpack against them.
To be honest the bugs are kinda satisfying to kill. Its like bubble wrap when you're popping the little bubbles en masse.
For me, headshotting virtually everything on the bot side with the Antimateriel Rifle is very satisfying for me.
Not even 1k subs..? Bro you deserve to be famous, this is such awesome content
I think the bug and bot contrast is a core thing story wise, too. I've always thought of Helldivers 2 as being quite anti war, but they just stick to the satire unflinchingly. With that in mind, fighting the bugs is what's put on the propaganda and sold to you, while fighting the bots is the true horror of war.
Fighting the Terminids does have its scary moments the first few times, but because of them being a very lightly armoured horde, they end up being good for a power fantasy since you can easily shred through much of em. Story wise, the whole reason they're where they are is because we brought them there to harvest FTL fuel (substance 710) from them. It's also no coincidence they show up way more often on the stuff on your ship's TV.
Fighting the Automatons, though, is meant to be more akin to actual war. The bot drop mechanic actively makes it more difficult if you try to go full Rambo, let alone every other enemy having heavy armour. Instead, you gotta use a lot more strategy and hold your fire until the perfect moment. When someone's only experience is with the bugs, though, the fight quickly spirals out of control. Story wise, it's also more complex than the bugs, as they've out right said they just want cyberstan back, with war also giving them a nationalistic hatred towards super earth.
Gonna be interesting how the Illuminate plays into this.
AA and mortar guns can be shot anywhere with 4AP or higher.
Don't need to find the g spot before going for the boom.
This is true, but I wanted to feel cool in the moment. Which was ruined when the exploding mortar gun sent me flying, nearly onto a mine
@@G1beonGames Gotta love those combo deaths!
Players struggle against them because most of the bigger enemies can only be killed by stratagems and explosive support weapons (some) and almost every automaton staggers whenever you even walk 1 inch in their direction