I just installed one and with the help of this video, now knowing the electronics are different, I managed to calibrate my tune to work with the knockoff 102mm TB.
That chip on the PCB is not a stepper motor controller. It's a magnetic rotary position sensor. There is a magnet on the end of the shaft in the yellow-greenish half-gear, as it rotates the chip measures the position. Also, it's a DC motor in there (just like the OEM part) and the driver for the motor is built into your ECU. I'm guessing you didn't recalibrate your Haltech to reflect the voltage curves of the new ECU. I certainly wouldn't use one of these with an OEM ecu, but it should be just fine with an aftermarket ECU.
Great video mate. I already went and bought a decent condition second hand GM one that cost the same as an unbranded new one. Having watched this now I sure am glad that I went that direction.
WOW! Thanks for sharing this. I'm currently trying to figure out if I need a new IAC for my 99 Accord. So this is good info even though I don't have a GM. Mechanic says I need a new throttle body sensor. Sent me a link to an unbranded item on Ebay. I'm sketchy about buying an unbranded item. I'm also thinking of changing out my IAC because my former trustworthy mechanic fooled me by removing my brand new IAC and replacing it with a junk yard one. Later took my car to the dealer for a full cleaning and was told that was the DIRTIEST IAC they've ever seen. This is why I'm doing my own work now. Can't trust anyone now.
Thank you for this video. This is exactly why when I was looking online for a ls4 tb I decided to go to a junkyard and get an official oem one and not bother buying a cheap Chinese new tb.
Fun video. Not sure I agree with your position feedback analysis. The generic version looks like it uses a magnetic absolute position encoder, which if implemented correctly should be extremely reliable. something else seems to be going on to throw the error. Maybe a cal mismatch? Or the drive is a POS?
Hold on once both are calibrated why should there be an issue ? One is simply done in a slightly different way, the cheep one looks to be getting it's throttle angle by motor movement
One way is accurate, one way is not. These cheap ones don't have any position sensors on the throttle at all. It's all just motor step count. Fine for a printer that can reset and recount, not fine for a car. This is why good tuning software such as the Haltech in my case will see these and go into fault mode. Plain and simple, it's a major risk running one of these.
Just got one of the cheap ones to put on my 2007 Envoy. Couldn't even leave the driveway and voila! Limp mode.Put old one (GM) back on and no limp mode. Envoy idled like new with cheap replacement but went to limp mode when accelerator went more than halfway... limp mode.
I too purchased one of these "cheap Chinese" throttle bodies (from Ebay) and carried out a comparison. Like you I was surprised, as to what I agree looks to be very cheap and nasty. But looks can be deceiving!! As an electronics engineer I made a more in depth investigation into why the position sensor looks so basic and simple. As a result I think your evaluation relating to this cheap Chinese unit may be wrong. Even though the internals look cheap, what you looking at is a high tech, state of the art magnetic angle sensor which in many aspect is more reliable, robust and accurate compared to the genuine GM unit. The magnetic angle sensor does not embody mechanical moving parts and as such cannot wear out (other than mechanical fatigue induced by thermal cycling). The fact that it looks so simply and basic is what makes it reliable. However do not mistake the simple looking electronics for the complexity in the technology which is contained within the IC chip. The GM unit on the other hand utilises mechanical variable resistors which in their nature will wear out and are susceptible to contamination. I suspect this is the primary reason why genuine throttle bodies fail. The variable resistors used in the GM throttle body is technology which dates back to the late 19th century (over 120 year ago). I have no doubt that the factory GM throttle body has far higher quality mechanical components such as the drive motor, gearing, machining tolerances etc. But as far as the throttle position sensor goes, I am afraid to say that the good old GM factory unit is using antiquated technology which in this application I suggest is technically inferior and far more expensive to manufacture.
It’s funny… when searching for videos like this you will find videos trashing gm throttle bodies for being junk. While watching this video I found it disappointing the video didn’t mention anything about the components on the board. If it is a cheap Chinese knock off it still has to work even if for 10 minutes. The ls2 TB doesn’t have the additional tps as it’s included in the TB so the creditability of this video goes out the window because he didn’t even know what he was looking at and assumed older technology that many others consider unreliable and junk to be superior. I for one am glad that someone saw the need to make a product that would work in an older application while using more updated components and methods. A oem gm ls2 throttle body used at this time 8/21 is going for min 300.00. And that price goes up considerably which is some what laughable. This TB body is not something complicated. This video is a joke.
You should make a video of your analysis. I do wonder, if the ebay version is using superior electronics, why is it not meeting specifications of the OEM unit, and throwing codes? Does it just need its own calibration? I would expect they would design it to meet OEM specified parameters, but perhaps that's not the case.
@@amorgan93 I found the voltage reference levels are reasonably different to the stock throttle. As such I doubt it would work straight out to the box and that is probably another reason why these units get such a bad wrap. Some ECU have a self learn feature which enables the software to automatically re-calibrate with the new throttle body. Even with a replacement OEM unit the electrical references will vary from one unit to the next. In relation to how this re-calibrated (re-learn) is done depends on the model and version of the ECU. The re-calibration is a function of the software running on the ECU (or the Throttle control module). On some version the re-calibration may occur automatically as you are driving, on others you may need to plug the ECU into a special diagnostic tool.
Curious as to the "unbranded" brand. I see some are remanufactured (ie Cardone) and some are cheap brands like "SK". I just cancelled my order for the SK after seeing this.
Sorry my ignorance but got a question...adding a 90mm throttle body to an ls2 which comes with smaller size throttle body from factory..it requires relearn? Or a tune up? Or just plug and play?
So the deal its that the throttle position sensor its fk-up in the aftermarket one so the hall teck sees some discrepancies in the positions of the throttle body
maybe the problem was just a throttle calibration needed for the cheap part. It can't be that bad if it's on the market. It has to function at least for a few months.
Sadly, no. Its a cheap imported part. With a Haltech ECU the calibration process is very straight forward and was done correctly as its a built in process. These parts are honestly 100% "you get what you pay for".
What's the possibilities of putting old internals on new one and adding the post to the tps sensor to knew one? Seems illy I know. But I'm someone of a finagler 😂
I thought about that as well. Especially since I had a brand new casing. It looked to be a bit different on the inside and I was really afraid I would destroy my "good" one trying to get the guts out so I didn't really try.
When using a Gold blade on a gen 3 you have to change ” Throttle to rpm ” values in HP tuner to 90% otherwise ecm will revert to limp mode as it goes out of bounds for gen 3 ecm. These are otherwise ok to use but you must do a retune of your ecm.
@@AGhostRiderR Im going to be doing this in the next few weeks. Technically the casting is slightly different. I only see one major issue that might require grinding. All the screws line up as I expected, I was slightly surprised that the casting had some differences on the inside walls. I will post pics later after I have all the parts I need because I am stealing/using the GM electronics out of my current 92mm Ported TB. Unscrew and add thread locker to all TB blade bolts, sand transitions smooth and swap GM electronics from an easy to find, cheap GM 90MM Gold blade TB typically called the LS7 TB.
@@DoesItTrack All good, I was going to by two for over 400.00. Guy didn't want to give me a deal so I passed. Only out 100.00 or so. Will go with a Nick Williams.
Ok. If it unbranded. Who did you purchase it from? 1a-auto ? Summit? Rock auto? Who was it? So far saying Chinese isn’t buying me that this is a legitimate gripe. Or maybe your selling than complaining.
@@DoesItTrack. 1a-auto has one posted on eBay ,looks identical, but they back it up and guarantee it for a year. I’m thinking about buying it from them. Thanks for the reply.
I just installed one and with the help of this video, now knowing the electronics are different, I managed to calibrate my tune to work with the knockoff 102mm TB.
do you have a video
That chip on the PCB is not a stepper motor controller. It's a magnetic rotary position sensor. There is a magnet on the end of the shaft in the yellow-greenish half-gear, as it rotates the chip measures the position. Also, it's a DC motor in there (just like the OEM part) and the driver for the motor is built into your ECU. I'm guessing you didn't recalibrate your Haltech to reflect the voltage curves of the new ECU. I certainly wouldn't use one of these with an OEM ecu, but it should be just fine with an aftermarket ECU.
Great video mate. I already went and bought a decent condition second hand GM one that cost the same as an unbranded new one. Having watched this now I sure am glad that I went that direction.
WOW! Thanks for sharing this. I'm currently trying to figure out if I need a new IAC for my 99 Accord. So this is good info even though I don't have a GM. Mechanic says I need a new throttle body sensor. Sent me a link to an unbranded item on Ebay. I'm sketchy about buying an unbranded item. I'm also thinking of changing out my IAC because my former trustworthy mechanic fooled me by removing my brand new IAC and replacing it with a junk yard one. Later took my car to the dealer for a full cleaning and was told that was the DIRTIEST IAC they've ever seen. This is why I'm doing my own work now. Can't trust anyone now.
I wished i would of known that a tuner recommended me that exact throttle body and waste of money thank you for the video
Thanks for taking the time to show this!
Thank you for this video. This is exactly why when I was looking online for a ls4 tb I decided to go to a junkyard and get an official oem one and not bother buying a cheap Chinese new tb.
Happy to help!!
How much that run you?
Thanks for sharing this, I probably got a non-branded one and that's why it's giving me shitloads of problems!
I bet so! Take it apart and see if it's matches the innards of a GM one.
@@DoesItTrack I'm about to go do that right now this is pissing me off 😂
Fun video. Not sure I agree with your position feedback analysis. The generic version looks like it uses a magnetic absolute position encoder, which if implemented correctly should be extremely reliable. something else seems to be going on to throw the error. Maybe a cal mismatch? Or the drive is a POS?
The position of butterfly should be fully closed or open a bit? Thank you
Hold on once both are calibrated why should there be an issue ? One is simply done in a slightly different way, the cheep one looks to be getting it's throttle angle by motor movement
One way is accurate, one way is not. These cheap ones don't have any position sensors on the throttle at all. It's all just motor step count. Fine for a printer that can reset and recount, not fine for a car. This is why good tuning software such as the Haltech in my case will see these and go into fault mode. Plain and simple, it's a major risk running one of these.
Thanks for the video. Clears up my decision.
Just got one of the cheap ones to put on my 2007 Envoy. Couldn't even leave the driveway and voila! Limp mode.Put old one (GM) back on and no limp mode. Envoy idled like new with cheap replacement but went to limp mode when accelerator went more than halfway... limp mode.
Where did you pick up the GM throttle body?
Good to know. Thanks.
I too purchased one of these "cheap Chinese" throttle bodies (from Ebay) and carried out a comparison. Like you I was surprised, as to what I agree looks to be very cheap and nasty. But looks can be deceiving!!
As an electronics engineer I made a more in depth investigation into why the position sensor looks so basic and simple. As a result I think your evaluation relating to this cheap Chinese unit may be wrong. Even though the internals look cheap, what you looking at is a high tech, state of the art magnetic angle sensor which in many aspect is more reliable, robust and accurate compared to the genuine GM unit. The magnetic angle sensor does not embody mechanical moving parts and as such cannot wear out (other than mechanical fatigue induced by thermal cycling). The fact that it looks so simply and basic is what makes it reliable. However do not mistake the simple looking electronics for the complexity in the technology which is contained within the IC chip.
The GM unit on the other hand utilises mechanical variable resistors which in their nature will wear out and are susceptible to contamination. I suspect this is the primary reason why genuine throttle bodies fail. The variable resistors used in the GM throttle body is technology which dates back to the late 19th century (over 120 year ago).
I have no doubt that the factory GM throttle body has far higher quality mechanical components such as the drive motor, gearing, machining tolerances etc. But as far as the throttle position sensor goes, I am afraid to say that the good old GM factory unit is using antiquated technology which in this application I suggest is technically inferior and far more expensive to manufacture.
It’s funny… when searching for videos like this you will find videos trashing gm throttle bodies for being junk. While watching this video I found it disappointing the video didn’t mention anything about the components on the board. If it is a cheap Chinese knock off it still has to work even if for 10 minutes. The ls2 TB doesn’t have the additional tps as it’s included in the TB so the creditability of this video goes out the window because he didn’t even know what he was looking at and assumed older technology that many others consider unreliable and junk to be superior. I for one am glad that someone saw the need to make a product that would work in an older application while using more updated components and methods. A oem gm ls2 throttle body used at this time 8/21 is going for min 300.00. And that price goes up considerably which is some what laughable. This TB body is not something complicated. This video is a joke.
You should make a video of your analysis. I do wonder, if the ebay version is using superior electronics, why is it not meeting specifications of the OEM unit, and throwing codes? Does it just need its own calibration? I would expect they would design it to meet OEM specified parameters, but perhaps that's not the case.
@@amorgan93 I found the voltage reference levels are reasonably different to the stock throttle. As such I doubt it would work straight out to the box and that is probably another reason why these units get such a bad wrap. Some ECU have a self learn feature which enables the software to automatically re-calibrate with the new throttle body. Even with a replacement OEM unit the electrical references will vary from one unit to the next. In relation to how this re-calibrated (re-learn) is done depends on the model and version of the ECU. The re-calibration is a function of the software running on the ECU (or the Throttle control module). On some version the re-calibration may occur automatically as you are driving, on others you may need to plug the ECU into a special diagnostic tool.
Curious as to the "unbranded" brand. I see some are remanufactured (ie Cardone) and some are cheap brands like "SK". I just cancelled my order for the SK after seeing this.
Yep, I really can only tell by the GM logo, or better yet, take it apart and look.
Sorry my ignorance but got a question...adding a 90mm throttle body to an ls2 which comes with smaller size throttle body from factory..it requires relearn? Or a tune up? Or just plug and play?
So the deal its that the throttle position sensor its fk-up in the aftermarket one so the hall teck sees some discrepancies in the positions of the throttle body
I was wondering if you were going to put out some more videos
Oh ya, just been doing too much wrenching and not enough filming. More to come!
Wonder if this is the reason why my truck keeps going into REDUCED ENGINE POWER
maybe the problem was just a throttle calibration needed for the cheap part.
It can't be that bad if it's on the market. It has to function at least for a few months.
Sadly, no. Its a cheap imported part. With a Haltech ECU the calibration process is very straight forward and was done correctly as its a built in process. These parts are honestly 100% "you get what you pay for".
Maybe，just maybe your settings in haltech needs polish, throttle voltage calibration and PID parameters.
What's the possibilities of putting old internals on new one and adding the post to the tps sensor to knew one? Seems illy I know. But I'm someone of a finagler 😂
I thought about that as well. Especially since I had a brand new casing. It looked to be a bit different on the inside and I was really afraid I would destroy my "good" one trying to get the guts out so I didn't really try.
@@DoesItTrack they look sooooo similar, I hate that good ones are so high
@@kevinreed4399 I totally agree.
How does BBK stack up🤔
No clue, I don't have any experience with that one.
When using a Gold blade on a gen 3 you have to change ” Throttle to rpm ” values in HP tuner to 90% otherwise ecm will revert to limp mode as it goes out of bounds for gen 3 ecm.
These are otherwise ok to use but you must do a retune of your ecm.
Do you think there might be a possibility to modify the unbranded one to use the original Factory Electronics?
I wouldn't use the unbranded one for any reason.
@@DoesItTrack would save a lot of money if it's 102mm upgrade that you could use there casting gm's electronics if it could be modified to work?
@@AGhostRiderR the aluminum part is good, the electronics are not.
@@DoesItTrack that's what I'm thinking maybe i can customize the aluminum part make it work with the factory electronics.
@@AGhostRiderR Im going to be doing this in the next few weeks. Technically the casting is slightly different. I only see one major issue that might require grinding. All the screws line up as I expected, I was slightly surprised that the casting had some differences on the inside walls. I will post pics later after I have all the parts I need because I am stealing/using the GM electronics out of my current 92mm Ported TB. Unscrew and add thread locker to all TB blade bolts, sand transitions smooth and swap GM electronics from an easy to find, cheap GM 90MM Gold blade TB typically called the LS7 TB.
Damn!!! Just spent 100.00 on one of these.
So sorry man! :)
@@DoesItTrack All good, I was going to by two for over 400.00. Guy didn't want to give me a deal so I passed. Only out 100.00 or so. Will go with a Nick Williams.
Ok. If it unbranded. Who did you purchase it from? 1a-auto ? Summit? Rock auto? Who was it? So far saying Chinese isn’t buying me that this is a legitimate gripe. Or maybe your selling than complaining.
I bought it on ebay, it shipped from China.
@@DoesItTrack. 1a-auto has one posted on eBay ,looks identical, but they back it up and guarantee it for a year. I’m thinking about buying it from them. Thanks for the reply.
@@theozman38 Pop the cover when you get it, see what it looks like on the inside. Always up for a good deal! 👍
I don't even understand why they would even bother selling products that are incapable of even working? It's almost as if it's just a scam 🤔
Ya, or maybe lesser ECU's in other country's don't have dual channel fail safes? I don't know honestly.
go gable
People who buy non OE or OEM throttle bodys need their heads checked lol