🛠 Drive-By-Wire or Cable Throttle? | TECH TUESDAY |
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- Опубликовано: 12 май 2019
- Cable or Electronic? One has been around for ages and has plenty of supporters, the other claims to be better, quicker and more adaptable. In this episode of Tech Tuesday Scott gives you a brief overview of both systems and offers his opinion on this polarizing subject.
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Cable or Electronic? One has been around for ages and has plenty of supporters, the other claims to be better, quicker and more adaptable. In this episode of Tech Tuesday Scott gives you a brief overview of both systems and offers his opinion on this polarizing subject.
I have 3$
I personally prefer cable.. my old is300 drive by wire was a major pita
Haltech just wondering about the 2jzgte in the aristo’s they are cable/electronic, so you use cable to open the throttle partly and the electronic motor will open it fully?
Throttle relocations... oh my are there some bad one out there.
My favorite thing about these Haltech videos is it settles the argument for me. No anecdotal nonsense. Just a professional tuner laying down the truth.
Best Tech Tuesday yet tuning fork! Really informative and entertaining keep up the good work!!!
I prefer cable for its directness and simplicity.
Swapped from an engine with DBW back to an older one with cable, and it feels much much better.
@@ThatWasPrettyFunny I guess I need to try some newer DBW setups to see if my opinion will change.
@@nickamarit no dbw can match the cable
@@nickamaritI have, no dice. They ALL suck. Universally. Cars AND bikes. Can't escape the latency. Not to mention all the artificial "assist" post-processing...
@@233kosta Yikes, I always had to reset the adaptation almost everytime I drive a DBW car to regain factory feel. Otherwise they all feel jumpy to me after a while because I drive with a very light foot and prefer to do so.
@@nickamarit I listened to some of this dude's seminar on tuning these things, seems the haltech approach is actually much better than OEMs' in this regard. If they use the right type of compute architecture, it might even be fast enough to feel just like a good cable throttle. Maybe...
Cable 100%
I have plenty of experience with both. I'd argue there's no throttle motor that is as fast as my foot, but that's hardly an issue. My issue is definately the feel - being able to adjust throttle directly and load the engine predictably without any electronic adjustments. Also, like was mentioned, factory cars seem to have a delay (my manual Audi sure doesn't, but the newer FCAs do), and they also don't seem to be 1:1, they lurch or come on far too quick for smooth driving. Speaking of smooth driving, I can put my foot back on the throttle and cancel cruise control comfortably, unlike drive by wire
Yep a lot of them seem to have a little one two count before they react, just enough to be irritating
@@JordyValentine I agree but all of those issues can be tuned out these days. I used to swear I'd never go dbw, but once I did it has opened up so many options I find it hard to go back. I picked up over a half a second and now the car is super consistent after setting up traction control too.
@@JordyValentine LOL
The delay is miniscule and most people get accustomed...like with boost lag. I was going with cable but realized how much more room I'd have with cable and coolant lines for the tb and idle valve out of the way. I also want cruise and with my old impreza the actuator is huge, so the dbw tb will give lots of space I didn't have before.
Mate you have no idea what your missing out on. Get a decent tuner to set it up and you wont look back. Mechanical is a thing of the past. My last tuner wouldn't have a bar of it and that reflects in the rest of his work that's stuck in the dark ages
Damn!
Thats an amazing tip about the Honda Cable to Ethrottle box!
I might just take that up in my MR2, should I need the upgrade!
For anybody in europe,all the peugeot 2.0hdi(306,406 expert etc)
from the 90's had the same style of cable to throttle sensor set up
Might be easier to source
From 90's to 2004 to be exact
Loved this. reminds me of the old S.U carbs that only gave the engine what it needed. Fantastic on early turbo systems!
This is exactly what kept me busy for the last few days to retrofit to an MX-5 NA with a VVT-engine!
The hybrid cable/DBW wasn't coming to my mind until this video popped up.
I think that's the road I'm going to take.
Thanx Scotty!
I've fabbed hybrid cable to DBW setups too. It isnt that hard to do and if you know the values from the potentiometer used in the pedal assembly you can use something other than the factory unit.
thank you for encourageing me!
@@mixalisstathis274 how's it coming? Want to do the same thing
Great video, quick to the point, and informative.
One major advantage of ETC is the linearisation of engine torque across all engine speeds. A throttle plate sized to provide little restriction when wide open at peak power engine speed (say 7,000 rpm) will effectively be wide open at a much smaller angle at lower engine speeds. On typical OE sized throttles, "effective wide open throttle" (ewot) can be as little as 30% of it's full travel range at just 2000rpm. By Mapping that into the throttle maps vs engine speed, the engine torque is better controlled and because the throttle is always closer to ewot, it is able to faster influence flywheel torque (ie is ewot is 30%, and the throttle is (pointlessly) at 100%, then it must close by 70% before it has any effect on torque!)
Secondary, the concept of controlling "pre-throttle boost" becomes possible (to minimise turbo lag) and in conjunction with the "Fast path" ignition angle control provides decent torque back up for any driving dynamics situation.
I run electronic port throttles on my competition car, with a strategy i have written called "fast-WOT" which detects a rapidly applied accelerator pedal position input, and actually gets the throttle plate open around 30ms BEFORE the driver has got their foot all the way down on the accel pedal (which typically takes 100ms to do). If the driver doesn't actually go to WOT, then the system re-blends the plate angle back to the pedal demand over a few hundred ms in order to avoid excessive torque overshoot......
100% there is so many thing you can do with electronic throttle. As always it's always hard to make heads soft enough to accept new information. "Good drivers" always say they are better than any mechanical device, blah, blah, blah. Well look you get the 10,000 hours you need to control the car perfectly with throttle input while I go for the faster solution that just works better. Plus my Focus ST has electronic throttle and we're just now tuning for better traction when under max acceleration (drag strip).
Kinda nudging an all or nothing switch.
@@dj4monie thats an Argument to automise the entire Life.... OK little over the top 😀
That's not an advantage and can be done with Cables as well. Less complex mechanism, lighter, no overrides, etc.
If it takes you 0.1s to put the pedal down you're slow. If you fuck up your detection... well, enjoy that spin, slower and less precise response, etc. If their is an error outside of the person, enjoy that out of commission vehicle (e.g. 737 MAX, murder Prius & Tesla's, etc.).
The short of the long is you have not made a case for DBW. You have pointed to your use case and flawed justifications.
that's just something that THE DRIVER should be able to do on his own with his foot/wrist and not rely on a computer to do for him. Also, the cable throttle reacts to your input in tenths of a millisecond. What your whole comment describes is your distrust of the driver knowing how to do what he wants or worse, not knowing what he wants at all. It also does not take 100ms to press the pedal from all the way up to all the way down, it takes more like 30ms give or take. If you know what throttle opening you want and you have good dexterity, which you should have, the system you described WILL OVERSHOOT and by a lot, if say you go on the throttle from 0 to 50% and you're good with your feet, you'll do it in around 15ms give or take. So, assuming your system can react fast enough to the input, it will overshoot to 100% when the driver didn't intend to do so and then it'll go back down to whatever the driver wanted to do. Besides, the biggest problem of drive by wire systems is not the time it takes for the butterfly to open to 100% from closed but how long it takes for the butterfly to start moving from the moment the driver's foot starts moving or the rider's wrist starts twisting.
For reference, the pulling on a cable is a tensional stress that propagates at close to the speed of sound in whatever material the cable is made of. Not exactly the speed of sound because that stress is not a wave. Throttle cables are made of steel. A motorcycle's throttle cable is about 80cm long. Do you know how soon after you start twisting the throttle the valve will start to move in that setup? 0.16ms. Can your strategy react in 0.16ms? Oh, by the way, if you twist the throttle grip in 20ms, the plate will be fully open in 20.16ms. There was a video in a different channel with logs of how fast the butterfly went from fully closed to fully open on a car's electronic throttle body, and it was embarrassingly slow compared to a cable... 13ms response time and 63ms to go from fully closed to fully open while the guy pressed the pedal from fully up to fully down in 30ms. It clearly cannot keep up with someone's foot AND it doesn't react as fast as a mechanical connection. To be fair, that video was made 7 years ago, so, I really hope that RBW systems have advanced a lot by then.
Excellent explanation. Keep up the great work👍🏻
The Saab Trionic 7 Management System also use a cable to e-throttle. The thottle cable goes all the way to the throttle plate where it is converted to e-throttle at the same place. Makes the pedal feel more old fashion, which in my mind is a great feel. I feel that newer e-throttle pedals are way to soft.
There are a lots of motorcycles that have both cable and DBW throttle blades.
The lower "primary" throttle blades are cable and the upper "secondary" blades are DBW through the ECU (with Primary TPS, Engine RPM and Gear Position inputs) so we have quite a bit of tuning/control over them with ECU flashing...
Early versions of Honda K20 were based on cable (ex. EP3), later on, were available versions with cruise control, VSA and Drive-by-wire.
In case of Honda Accord, between 2003-2005 there were available K20 (based on cable), and K24 (drive-by-wire) with VSA.
To reuse a lot of components, like pedals, brackets etc. Honda decides to use adapter cable-to-wire used in K24 and in K20 since 2006.
This adapter after few years is starting to be problematic, because inside there is an electronic potentiometer. Potentiometer starts to wear out and the dust begins to affect its operation - but can be opened and easily cleaned up, after it should work correctly again ;)
Very interesting information mate.
Great info about the Honda setup, could be an easy option for my 7.
Haha Perfect! My k24 engine donor car in a 2005 accord and I kept the box for that reason 😂! Keep up the good work lads for the UK🇬🇧
I watched this video about a year ago when i was making my mind up about going DBW or staying cable. I ended up going drive-by-wire and honestly i cannot recommend it enough. throttle response and rev-matching is so perfect. There is no input lag whatsoever, idle is perfect. If anybody ever tries to tell you that cable is better - tell them to stop living in 1995.
*edit: 400kw RB25 S15.
atleast cable last longer and more reliable a DBW would fail due to tps issues and all sort of stuff
Nah, cable is better, stop using your daddy’s money buying the newest cars
Nearly 3 years on, still using the same Bosch DBW throttle body. A+++++
@@Songtester with you on this. And respect for not rising to the bait!
Is that how arguments work now a days? stop living in 1995?
One downside of electronic throttle: it lacks the "gritty" or vibrating feel of a cable throttle as the engine runs. It also lack the feel of the throttle pedal suddenly popping when it goes from high vacuum to WOT. It also lacks the amusement of having the throttle pedal physically moving when cruise control runs.
Although that's nitpicking.
What's about that popping you said. Can you explain it ?
Although i really like that vibration when driving hard, but just for getting to work (30 miles motorway) i would really love an electronic one because my foot tingles after 10 minuten^^
Love the knowledge!!!
Thanks Scotty 👍
Most OEM return-less fuel systems can't cope with sudden throttle inputs. So electronic throttles are used to limit opening speed
Thomas 16.04 great information!!
So how would a cable throttle limit opening speed then? Or I guess it doesn't and just bogs? (Cuz that's what it feels like it does on my cable-throttle car, when I mash the gas at lower RPMs)
@@Platinumtag I don't know about the pricing in your country, but here, iacv is cheaper to replace than an entire tb. most of the time, it just needs cleaning.
Good advice - thanks mate!
Being electronic and more complex there might be reliability issues, in case of a cable the major downside in my opinion would be a sticky cable, especially in automatic cars.
I used factory parts such as modern nissan e theottle and kun hilux pedal. Reliable as and cheap. Super responsive pedal too
Can Haltech operate the combo throttle (i.e. cable from the pedal to the valve, but with a electronic regulation on a side)?
As stated, a lot of the issues people usually have with DBW throttles are really down to factory tuning, with a few issues attributable to pedal assemblies themselves having unusual travel and in some cases non-linear potentiometers. Tuned properly, an electronic throttle can behave exactly the same way a mechanical throttle would. Of course, that simply adds a level of complexity to your tune, which can already cost hundreds of dollars in labor time just to get the engine reliably making power, let alone adding whole layers of drivability tuning when TPPS and TPS Demand curves are considered, not to mention the cost of finding and acquiring a suitable pedal assembly that fits your car, sits in a comfortable position, has a suitable spring rate and travel, and the process of mounting it in your car.
Like anything, there's no one right way to use an electronic throttle, but there are plenty of wrong ways, which have soured many people on them, and there are a lot of considerations when developing your own "right way" to throttle your engine. I went with a cable in my Nissan, but I'll be running an engine with an electronic throttle in my RX7. There are a lot of reasons why I've chosen these different paths, and in my opinion, both technologies offer their own advantages that best suit different kinds of builds. Think long and hard about what you want to accomplish, and throttle your engine with the actuator that best suits your needs.
I haven't had that experience. Even with standalone ECUs tuned to provide linear, fast E-throttle response, no E-throttle I've driven has had the immediate response and natural resistance of a cable. With a cable I can feel the cable be actuated, and instinctively know how much throttle was applied.
Also, when slamming the throttle down after a quick shift, the E-throttles simply can't keep up. "A throttle control algorithm for improving engine response based on the characteristics of electronic-throttle-control actuator" (T. Aono; T. Kowatari, 2001) sees E-throttle response times of 60-100ms; even if that has improved over the years, it will still be noticeable at 20-60ms compared to the
This might be the greatest video I've ever seen...
Meh, I have yet to drive a car with an e-throttle that feels “right”. Maybe it’s because when I started driving, everything was cable actuated. My biggest complaint is feedback. E-throttles just don’t have any in the foot - they’re dead feeling IMO. Case in point. My JDM WRX STI has a cable tb while the same vintage (02) exports of that car (UK for instance) went e-throttle. I like to believe it’s because Japanese performance drivers’ preference was still cable. Though more likely it had to do with meeting export (UK for example) emission requirements as it’s easier to manipulate engine management with that type of throttle, as mentioned in the video. While I understand the upside of etbs, I’ll stick with cable unless there’s no option - personal preference in my case. Anyone else feel similarly?
Yous Uck All* I* got from your* comment is that you’ve* not quite grasped the English language.
You’re probably just not old enough to have experienced the evolution from DBC to DBW. New tech is probably great. I am not shooting for crazy power so no need for me to convert. ✌🏻
I agree I don’t like the feel of dbw use to make it difficult to drive I just rest my foot on the pedal n forget about it it’s basically like the car drive itself
I think a lot of people don't like the "feel" of DBW because they are almost always set up conservative from the factory i.e. to minimise fuel consumption and emissions, sometimes at the expense of response and linearity. Wheras with a cable, the feel is what it is. Really its down to the tuning and not any inherent flaw with the technology, though I do wonder about the cost vs durability aspect of the DBW. The motors/gears etc. are just another thing to potentially fail and cost money. Though not really sure if thats a common problem? My car (BMW E39) came with both cable and DBW engines so a conversion either way is pretty easy. Think I'll stick with my old cable for now though.
The major disadvantage I have found on our Ford BA XR6 is that the throttle does not know exactly what I want, and makes some very dangerous assumptions- either too little, because it thinks I want to be conservative, or too much, which is hazardous in low-traction environments (no TC on the sedan). This has led to my wife (and no sexist remarks, thanks; she IS a good driver) and I both losing control of the vehicle on different occasions, luckily no other vehicles were in the immediate vicinity at the times. We have absolutely NO confidence in the power delivery of the vehicle, and will be trading out to another vehicle entirely, WITHOUT FBW throttle as soon as possible, even if that means going back a few years in model choices.
Just converted my 1j non vvti fc rx7 to e throttle. So simple. Used a throttle body from a vq25 and kun hilux pedal. Cost 100 bux kiwi easy to mount cleaned everything up and way nicer on the right foot.
Would the hilux pedal suit Nissan s14 also?
@@zenkisilvias1428 dont see why not. It will need to be calibrated anyway. Just choose something that suits as far as mounting goes thats what i did
Some VAG's have both, an electronic TB with a cable connection to the pedal
I that setup on a honda manual j series swap on a 2000 accord. I use the 04 tl which has that cable peddle sensor and then to a tundra throttle body. And it works good.
Hi. I am doing a swap with a complete engine that comes with DBW. I want to use the ecu with the DBW funciton so I was planing to adapt another throttle pedal. The tip about the Honda module is great! But can you be more specific supplying a link for us to see which is the exact part you are talking about? Thanks!
Cable all the way!
The electronic ones fail faster than the cable ones due to failing sensor and/or motor
This is true. Happened to my 12 year old motorcycle. Where as my 20 year old bikes have had no issues with cable. I own three motos. Plus I predict a time in the future when the authorities will be able to slow speeding vehicles wirelessly with a throttle sensor jammer.
With cable you learn how to drive the car. After a couple trips you master the power delivery. With an electric one the engines "tries" to make your decisions better, but there is always lag, and inconsistency
It's funny, one of the justifications I've heard is that it provides a "more consistent" feel... If they mean they all feel sh!t - true. If they mean they all react the same - nah...
I've had the fortune of using multiple cable throttle engines. Different manufacturers, different configurations, different power... Guess what, they all "felt" more or less the same in their nonlinear responce.
No latency, no artificial "smoothing", no "adapting to your driving style", just the pure, honest engine.
Depends on which car. If it's a cheap car then yea it's quite laggy
@@dr.science_0177 Cheap, expensive - it's all the same. Always extra latency, always some bullsh!t "smoothing" algorithm.
I am going to run dbw on my impreza and will be doing all of the wiring/fuel/engine/etc so hopefully I integrate the original oem cruise switches correctly with the elite 2500. May need some help getting cruise working "properly" as I've read online of people struggling with it. The tuners may be able to dial it in, but since they live a few hundred miles away I won't be able to take the car back for every small issue.
What's crazy is I was thinking about this earlier today, then this video popped up in my subscriptions. Thanks for the info!
Just recieved my terminated FD RX7 loom. Excellent quality.
Nice! Send us the pix of the install when you're done:)
Recieved my Elite1500, wideband kit, dual egt sensors + TCM2 signal amplifier, IGN1A coils and ignition harness.
Plain white cardboard boxes hide the nicely packaged parts inside. looking forward to seeing the learning capabilities of the ELITE1500 with their wideband kit
Will email you guys some install photo's in high quality with good lighting.
Allan Ulladulla.
Ahhh, there in lies the responsiveness problem. If it is not a design flaw, then the manufacturers "dialed-in" the slow throttle response to pump up their gas mileage ratings, & or to minimize wear & tear on components. If you are use to the linear response of a cable activated throttle (including a carburetor) then it is very annoying to have to modulate the pedal to get the car to respond appropiately. Why should I have to over press the pedal initially (to get the speed I want) only to have to ease up on the pedal just enough?
Tuning Fork, I'm just a cave man and i like my analog throttle bodies. some things on a car i like digital, some things i like mechanical...the thought of something like electric brakes and steering assist make me nervous 😓
A couple of other things - some events have a specified maximum speed the vehicle is allowed to do, such as some Targe events and different classes in events like the Silver Dollar race in Nevada. The throttle can also be used as a torque limiting device in the different gears and for different grip levels - limiting boost is a rather primitive method as that is limiting the maximum torque on the curve, which is leaving potential torque application below and above that peak.
I wanted to do the Silver Dollar Race but sort of forgotten about it.
@@dj4monie Take this as a reminder ;-)
My 2000 Mercedes W210 E55 has a short throttle cable to an electronic box in the engine bay, I think it might be the same for all the face lift petrol versions but you'd have to check should be loads in scrapyards, they all go rusty or have something really expensive break eventually.
Having been using *only* cable prior to DBW, all I can say now after years of DBW-driving is; that I miss cable, it *just* isn't the same with electronic, and just do not get the right pedal-feel or any of the older auto 2-stage throttle feels like on some older Volvo's (where there's a tactile "extra travel" in the throttle & pedal for 'full power').
Couldn't you just put a stronger spring or a damper below the pedal? I feel like again this is not the fault of the electronic throttle but the setup at the pedal being sub par which diminishes your in cabin experience.
@@anonchannel1058 Yeah he blames technology because it's easier to do as he and the majority of others are always fearful of what they don't understand. Pedal Feel is only crucial if your still on that horse about better drivers have some natural feel for the car in certain situations. I drag race so 88% throttle on my is WOT, I am not trying to modulate the throttle, I have programmed clutch slip. Along with managed throttle opening I will have the best 60 ft times possible from FWD very soon without having to have an ultra wide tire.
@stoeger 2 He is a fool and doesn't understand that even a carb systems can be sized such that 88% on throttle would be effective WOT. But kids these days don't understand mechanical systems or even how to do a proper pro/con "analysis". They are stuck in a mentality where newer or more advanced means better to them.
My 06 lancer ralliart has a cable to electronic adapter also.
Cable for me. I haven't driven an aftermarket-controlled e-throttle, but the OE ones I've driven are laggy and increasingly meddlesome and have turned me off to the idea entirely.
I want to switch to drive by wire throttle body but does my Haltech Platinum Sport 1000 supports drive by wire throttle body?
Im still all about the cable. More direct and without lag u cant have without a cable. the computer can still communicate with the throttle via the TPS. U can adjust the idle with the little screw on the side adjusting the plate slightly more open or closed for idle. Old school just work loads and loads easier . Only one good thing about the DBW is in very cold country's the ford will intermitted open and close to prevent freezing of the throttle body.
That's the road i'm going down with the 2J, feel better about the choice now :D
Fastest 2JZ have all switched, same with the fastest RB's and other engines from the 90's
Smart man
I am planing to dct swap transmission can I use my cable throttle or needs to drive by wire❓
Ive noticed on my two drive-by-wire cars (diff makes and models) they seem to have an issue if needing to accelerate up and out of a tight and steep hair pin they take a good 4-5 seconds to kick down. I can replicate it on the same corner every single time in both cars. Not sure what it is but none of my prior cars with throttle cables ever had a problem kicking down on this same corner. Pretty sure its the computer saying no which is kind of annoying,
I have the same problem in stop and go traffic when drive my mom car. It feel very weired to floor it in stop and go traffic just my make the car keep up with others.
After driving 8,000ks on a road trip without cruise control, I'm definitely moving towards a DBW conversion on my 1UZ Hilux.
The Honda pedal box is the last piece of the puzzle...... May even pinch it off my mums Accord....... 😂
U guys gotta make more videos on Barra stuff
Watch this space :)
We need some more ETC wiring explanations. Maybe some diag!!
Next Explain the throttle Control/response on old mechanical Diesels Vs Electronically controlled Diesels. Test Case the Beasty cummins 5.9 6bt Vs Cummins 5.9 ISB. Please.
If I buy an install a manual throttle body.How will the computer know what the timing is and how to make the engine run?Like when I've got the throttle Wide open. How the computer now?I've got the pedal to the floor
Quick question. can't find an answer on any forum anywhere...Running an elite 2000 on a 300zx (TT) with dual tb's. Wanting to convert to dbw. Can I just source both reference and signal wires from the same output to both TB's? Is a dual setup even possible to calibrate/operate?
Hey Chris,
Get in contact with our support team: www.haltech.com/support
They'll be more than happy to help answer your questions :)
If i keep dbw in a k24 Acura TSX, with Hal tech, can i tune it like a pedal commander would and remove lag i guess ?? 3:18 is what I’m referring to. It’s dbw but already has a cable in the bay… I’d like to keep ac but no heater… and i don’t mind going haltech… what ecu do i get ?
Scott, in my Subaru I have an issue where if you go from zero throttle to a quick jab on the accelerator it delays sometimes a good second. Response while on it already is excellent. What causes this delay from zero?
Timothy Brown a dumb ECU making decisions for you
That can be tuned out of the ECU and wouldn't be a problem with standalone ECU
Cable I have had so many problems with an electronic throttle
cable 100%. Some cars have so much delay on the throttle that you can quickly stomp it up and down before the engine does anything. Rev-matching is WAY faster and easier on cable throttle bodies.
Can you run automatic transmissions on cable driven TB
just building a Fit with a supercharger I've gone with a K tuned cable throttle body with a TPS for the vcu. I'm hoping that is best of both worlds combo myself.
Ran into a major issue with an electronic throttle body. My serpentine belt snapped because my ac compressor seized, the alternator didn't have power and the gas pedal was the first thing to lose power. If it was a cable I could have driven all the way home to fix it
Hey, I recognise you! We see you sometimes with MCM guys!!!!!
If my car came with an idle air control valve that was plumbed into the throttle body and I convert to this DBW does the IAC valve get eliminated?
If I’m not mistaken, to tune a car on steady load on load bearing dyno it is only possible with electronic throttle body such as tuning the MBT timing for a specific load and rpm. Correct me if I’m wrong
Edit: I’m still hoping for a clarification
You are mistaken. People can do that while doing something called "street tuning". MBT tuning also does not need a steady load and can be done via power sweeps. Among other methods.
Ive done DBW on my newly built sr22vet and as good as it sounds in terms of traction control and all the rest, the delay from throttle on is annoying, also hard to drive it smoothly, slight touch of the throttle and the car lurches, weve calibrated it yet its still hard to drive smooth, its also hard to feather the throttle in situations where theres no traction control, its hard to keep it in the sweet spot of traction/wheelspin, i much rather a cable throttle now but already have this DBW set up in the car, if i could do it again id definetely do cable
Is it possible to program auto blip on a h pattern via the ecu when it detects a brake and clutch signal simultaneously?
Yes!
For DBW equipped engines we can program a throttle open position when those two criteria are met resulting in a throttle blip.
Contact our technical support for more information!
@@haltech Awesome good to know! Havent purchased a ECU yet guys. Not at that stage on my build but i definitely will be a customer of you guys
my clio rs has horrible lag on the throttle pedal, can't tune it because stock ecu :(
DBW almost got me stuck in the mud today. I'm ok with not having a cable, but the electronics need to keep up when I put the tranny in manual and turn the traction control off.
If using electronic then you should have 2 potentiometers at the “pedal”... the position of BOTH needs to be monitored and the signal disregarded if they are different.. this is a to ensure that a failure cannot result in a runaway car at full throttle , the Boeing 737 Max should have had a similar system to compare the signals on its anti stall sensors... a sensor failure cannot result in a catastrophe
not just that but security has always wigged me out a tad, i knows its a very rare chance but, the throttle* being controlled by software is not a good thing imo, software can be modified, im sure if someone were to leave a wifi/blutooth obd tool plugged in that in theory things could be editied on the fly and dangerous things could be forced to happen, i know its a slim chance but its a posibillity, personally i try to trust electronics with my life as little as possible, and yeah i know its not always completely avoidable
Electricity, Killing people since the 17-18 hundred's or something..
The Boeing 737 MAX does have two sensors, but the MCAS system only makes use of one of them.
Thing with a plane is that you can't just turn the ignition off, in a car a stuck throttle really isn't a problem, you can turn them off without plummeting a mile out of the sky.....
@@popuptoaster must be a pretty poorly designed plane if it cant glide 🤣
I wanting to replace my 2003 5.3 engine with a lower mileage one. Mine is drive by wire and I’m looking at a 2002 that is drive by cable. Would I be able to swap intakes and use my stock harness and my ecu? Or what??? Anyone know?
No downsides to ETC? I'd call the delay on tip in a downside. It's noticeable (and aggravating) compared to the positive and instant nature of a CTC.
Just a matter of tuning.
Says someone who has no experience.
@@RadRidesByCru Did you not watch the video? Tuning fork said that exact same thing.
Scott discussed tuning the throttle curve, that doesn't solve the latency issues in the engine management system.
@@RadRidesByCru You need to listen a bit harder
What car has a 90 mm electric throttle body that can be modified for an Evo 8??
I'm doing an LS swap and want built in idle and cruise control. I need to find a part number for that cable-to-electronic converter?
You can have cable and still idle and cruise
@@NathanKirby2001 I need to know what parts to get to do that.
2:32 One-to-one pedal-to-throttle body mapping would like to have a word with those "poor response" guys.
Has anyone overcome the fluttering issues that plague some electronic throttle bodies when used with higher boost? I’ve seen several builds where they had to switch to a cable driven setup because the drive by wire unit couldn’t hold itself open at wot and put the ecu into limp mode.
Which builds are you talking about? If on the factory ECU that is the problem right there because the values are typically not accessible with backward engineered software.
So is it as simple as taking the adapter off of a K24a cl9 accord, and getting the cable from a k20a?
don't think so. The signal from the box goes into the ecu, which then feeds the TB.
what about pedal feel? Does it feel less connected to the road than drive by wire?
i thought drive by wire was cable but you get my point
I own cars that use both and the cable is SO much more responsive. On electric, I can usually floor the pedal and lift off of it immediately and the engine doesn't even respond.
Does this mean that the Haltech Elite series ECUs can do cruise control now? pretty please?
Yes
Yes it can.
Awesome. Will there be any technically speaking videos going a bit more into depth about DBW setup and cruise control setup? I’m doing this on my MR2 (elite 1500) and my GTR (elite 2500).
Might be good on a car, but they are HORRIBLE on a bike where you need good control and don't want interference from a computer. Motorcycles come with multiple ride modes now - the up-shot is instead of getting one fuel map that works, you end up with 6 that don't. Apparently, emissions standards are the reason they are so bad on motorcycles now. The other reason I really dislike the 'ride-by-wire' revolution is that now throttles react differently in every single gear and it is quite off-putting. They are also incredibly light and twitchy due to light return springs and a lack of friction (that I imagine is inherent in a traditional cable system). This means that while you might have the skill to easily control a bike with 180hp with a cable throttle, it is really scary (and I would suggest very dangerous) riding a bike with a 100hp, with 'ride-by-wire'. Anyway, this looks like a car forum, so I can't imagine too many people will know what I'm talking about. Clearly, this RUclipsr is a big fan- for cars at least.
Another cheap option for those in the US is the 03-07 Accord V6 and 06--07 I4 as these cars are getting old and shouldn't be hard to find in the salvage yard for the APP sensor to retrofit a car that used a mechanical throttle.
Mine has both :D
whats safer?, seen a car at powercruise that was e-throttle that stayed wide open during a power skid . Scary stuff
Wow haha, throttle cables can do something similar if your TPS (throttle position sensor) goes bad, I've seen this happen to an XJ Jeep and it revved up to 2.5K or so.
Turbo lag, and electronic pedal lag almost made me vomit driving that. Naturally aspirated and cable pedal is what I love.
Unfortunately I don't agree I've been working on cars for 38 years drive by wire has way too many complications and failures that become very dangerous for the driver
Cable definitely I have a 2007 Chevrolet Silverado have changed everything and still have problems with reduced engine power junk getting ready to replace with cable then no problems
I really hate the delay in response... I thought its just the Alphard but even others are like that...its like when you press its starts calculating how much it needs to open then decides 3 seconds later
Now we just need an easy process of switching the wire back to the cable!
Put cable throttle body in place of E-Throttle body, Depin and Repin TPS to suit Cable TB. Add throttle pedal and cable. Or int he case of BA/BF Barras. Fit AU falcon upper plenum and TB to Barra lower. Attach cable and add ISC wiring.
Huh I never knew it was unusual for my accord euro to have a cable to electronic adaptor
Learn something new everyday l!
Drive by cable all the way any day. Too bad my new car doesn't have it.
We all know it's about throttle linkages, proper rods and levers all the way (as seen on old Land Rovers)
Nope then you'll never get the traction you want, especially with high powered FWD and RWD cars.
Throttle linkage on my 1972 Mercedes 280ce was a thing of beauty.
I think some early Mitsies use a remote cable style TPS setup for the throttle aswell
Also some older years Mercedes cdi diesel cars have a cable to Potentiometer and a electronic throttle body
WMD-C35 yup the rvr, chariots did , horrible gdi engines they had aswell
From my experience with electronic throttles, the response is not quicker than a cable TB. If anything, the computer seems to "smooth out" the input and you will not receive the action YOU told it to do. Say I want to do a quick blip to throw some rocks. Quick as in less than half a second. My old 02 will do it very well. The 2012 I had, well lets say I had to hold her down for a bit. Sure there are benefits, but why change something that works so well? What we need back is the driving experience.
I hate the rev hang on my 2017 lancer gsr any idea's?
Ye of little knowledge it's the dual mass flywheel attached to your clutch. Could get a lightweight flywheel but you'll get a noise similar to the one you get when the throwout bearing is worn (rattling when the clutch pedal is out). Leave it, it's to help people not experienced driving sticks help not stall the car.
@@dj4monie it's so annoying i didn't notice it when i test drive the car now I'm stuck with it
Repairs :
Electronic - $300
Cable - my shoelace
Hey guys, are you going to make a technically speaking episode on the wiring and setup of a DBW throttle? Perhaps on your 2jz test engine? ;)
We have the software setup walk-through covered already - ruclips.net/video/CxKdO0p6WAI/видео.html