Soy Christianity Isn't Going to Cut It
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- American Christianity is leaving many today disenfranchised. Why is that? And why are many finding refuge in the Orthodox Church? Today, I offer my thoughts on the matter. If you enjoyed this discussion, please share it with friends! Thank you and God bless!
Hit the nail on the head. I was on a worship team, and we were told one Sunday “alright play softly here and let the spirit move.” And then the person who said it started laughing almost like they knew what we were doing was nonsense. I think that was the moment where I finally said enough. It was really hard to see everything I was taught all my life was, well a joke tbh. But after a really rough patch, I’m now going to the EO church with my wife and son. It’s only been a month of consistent attendance but I can already see the changes. I’ve been learning a lot about prayer and what faith really is.
I can totally relate to this, I’m just waiting to align with the ending…
I also play in a worship band at a Baptist church (but looking into / visiting orthodox churches) and I’ve had a very similar experience as you described.
One day we were getting ready to practice, and the “pads” player began holding his drone note down, and then everybody was like “Alright, now we can begin now that the pads have begun!” And everybody, including myself, was hysterical.
But now looking back on that, it gives me the idea that everybody has this sense, even if it’s subconscious, that what we’re doing seems contrived and artificial. It’s stuck with me ever since. On one hand that was a really funny moment, but it points to a sad reality.
@@Hopmeister96 yeah for sure, I’ve heard countless stories like this too. It wasn’t a one time thing either, but the first time where I’m like okay so it’s not just me that’s starting to think it’s ridiculous. I remember when our singers came back from a conference and our director essentially said “ I’m not trying to manufacture a spiritual moment, but I kind of am”. Not word for word, but that is essentially what he said. I remember that raising red flags for me.
I actually attended my first vesper and liturgy over the weekend and Im excited for both services coming up this weekend as well. It was videos like this, josiah trenham, roots of orthodoxy and orthodox ethos that got me here. Thank all of you god bless
@@Okieredds22 Glory to God!
🅱️ased
same here, good to hear the words getting out, i start my catechism in 2 days myself.
The masculine/feminine difference was one of the first things I noticed after attending a Divine Liturgy.
Yeah Orthodoxy is more masculine..
Though I’ve heard an Ortho priest who said to him it feels more feminine. 🤷♂️ to each his own I guess. But most say masculine
I turned to paganism because it was the only thing that took the spiritual world seriously. Then turned to Orthodox Christianity because of the lack of consistency and the lack of reverence for the Source of All Things demonstrated by most "pagans" today.
Never have I experienced feeling whole and at peace as I did when I came to my first Liturgy. As devastating as the isolation during C-v was, I'm ultimately grateful for what I went through, because it brought me home. ❤☦
@@kg2096 Such an awesome story. Glory to God you came home!
I've been raised Protestant/Baptist almost my entire life. I hate that there's so much animosity in Protestantism towards Catholics/Orthodox Christianity, and while I haven't fully come around to the idea of Orthodoxy I agree 100% that what is happening in the American church is a watered down, spiritually bankrupt variation of Christianity. We're a far cry from the pastors of the Great Awakening and men like Jonathan Edwards. I think the biggest reason people are leaving and abandoning Protestantism is because when you look at it today there's almost no difference between it and the world, and the world hates itself just as much as it hates the Church.
Jonathan Edwards satanic calvinist views on theology got us here he's by no means better than the current bunch. "Sinners in the hands of an angry God" is one of the most satanic inversions of true theology to ever exist. There is a reason former hyper-calvinist new engalnd is an atheist wasteland now.
I don't like the hostility either. However, much of that hostility is actually reversed in my experience. I despise the pages Catholic dogma, a dogma about LAWFARE in the faith, whereas at least Protestant and Orthodox practice the faith of Christ himself, and not the woke anti christ popes.
I agree, though I respect orthodoxy, I can’t convince myself of praying to saints. But I think a lot of what they say is true. Faith is a verb. But a big thing is that EO especially is not compromising in the name of inclusion. Most Protestant churches are weak because they take a butts in the pews approach. Don’t make people uncomfortable, don’t challenge them, certainly don’t suggest they’re wrong. I stay pretty high church Protestant (Lutheran) because they’re still more concerned about Christ.
As a fellow Protestant Christian, I agree with you. I grew up being told the Catholic church was a false Christianity (though was told nothing about Orthodoxy), and that colored my perception of Catholicism for many years. It was only after I looked deeper into its teachings and sat down with a good Catholic friend of mine, willing to ask hard questions, did I learn that the differences actually serve a higher purpose than just to be different. I still don't agree with everything the Roman Catholics teach, but my respect for them has increased tremendously.
You're right. Many branches of Protestantism are dying (especially Baptist), and I think that's largely due to the fact they don't have a highly organized international structure like those with a High Church view.
As a former Pentecostal, dude this was GOLD lol 😂
Give me orthodoxy or death ☠️ ☦️
Love your channel brother
Lord have mercy on us all ❤
What made u leave Pentecostalism
@@zealousideal well I found out that it’s a cult that’s only 100 years old lol fake tongues fake healings it’s all a joke.
Former Pentecostal here as well. Had beginnings in oneness Pentecostalism. Started attending Orthodox Church a year and a half ago.
Your singing and Jordan Peterson impression were beautiful lol 😂
I was a Pentecostal most my life, of the Brownsville Revival/Bethel Redding kind. I was a part of many worship teams. I played at conferences, all the Sunday services(it was a mega church), special services, you name it. I desired to worship God in spirit and in truth and pursued that via playing my guitar. To be honest, it was invigorating. Being in front of hundreds to thousands of people each week made me feel special.
I had many experiences where the “worship leader” during practice would state something along these lines: “At this point the Holy Spirit will move”, or “Guitar will play that part and the Holy Spirit will come”, etc. It was all manipulative. It was never true worship, in spirit and in truth. It was all a show - sure, I and others were sincere, but we were sincerely worshiping ourselves and the experience, not the Holy Trinity.
Modern “worship” is a tool of manipulation, pure and simple. There is nothing of value in it besides some real good shoe gaze music(which I love). Protestants are misguided in their worship, they do not worship the Holy Trinity as God has prescribed, as the Holy Orthodoxy Church worships. Modern worship is a drug, and it’s highly addictive. Pray for those who are caught in this spiritual delusion, they are sincerely pursuing a connection with God, but sorely miss the mark.
Oh Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us.
You nailed it, very similar to my experience and background.
@@ICanRideMiBikeWithNoHandleBars Couldn’t have said it better myself! We definitely need to pray for people caught up in this “worship” 🙏🏻
I agree with most of what you wrote, but would like to point out that some “Protestants” still worship liturgically.
Very honest question for you as you sound experienced and informed.
I too have a similar background.
How is the structure of the orthodox liturgy not also emotionally manipulative?
@@bretgreeno The structure of the Divine Liturgy follows the worship structure handed down since the time of Moses. It is designed to worship God in an honorable way - and more importantly, in the way He intended. The hymns are beautiful, but not over-extravagant. The peak of the liturgy is the reception of the Eucharist, where Orthodox Christians follow in the steps of Jesus’s teaching to eat His Body and drink His Blood.
Low-church evangelical worship, on the other hand, is none of these things. It disregards God’s desire for how worship should be in favor of what is popular and liked by the people. The lights, the instruments, the fog machines, it’s all designed to elicit an emotional response. The culmination of this worship, in many churches, is the proverbial “altar call” (where there is usually not actually an altar). This emotional encouragement comes into play here. People are encouraged to come forward and make a decision to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior - AFTER having just received this emotional rigmarole they call worship. This is what I mean when I say it is manipulative and nothing like Orthodox liturgy.
I have a video coming out in a couple months on the topic of Judaism. In that, I discuss further this idea of “worship” and what constitutes valid worship. That may help elucidate this further!
I'm not hopping on the ortho-train, but Soy Christianity is the truest term for what's been going on in the west.
It’s true. We went to our first Divine Liturgy at the end of February. We’ve been every weekend since and are catechumens now. I’m just grateful that the grace of God has led us to the true Church. ❤
@@RickysPlums Glory to God!
amen
That “here I am to worship” brought back so many unpleasant flashbacks 😂
“More and more people aren’t taking [American Evangelicalism] seriously, because it doesn’t take itself seriously. It’s worship is irreverent, it’s beliefs are shallow, and it will change on a dime when some new cultural trend comes along.”
sheesh
After finding Orthodoxy last year, I have made the decision to convert to the true church ☦️ your videos along with handful of others make it easy for me to understand and get to know better! God bless many years!
@@ThinkingChrist Glory to God!
@@untoages
The "Third Adam" series by Spencer Smith
Just wanted to get your opinion on this series when you get the chance!
@@TG-vn7is haven’t seen it, I’ll have to check it out
@untoages
1 and 2 are an hour and some odd minutes long.
3 and 4 get longer, but the video editing gets much better.
Take your time 👍
@@TG-vn7is I just finished watching the first one. He’s so close, but so far 😂 I would recommend him the book “Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future” by Fr. Seraphim Rose. He’s really tracking with a lot of things that are going on, but his presuppositions are blindingly hypocritical as a Protestant. God-willing, perhaps these insights will provide a bridge for him to Orthodoxy one day.
🎶“HeRe I aM To wORshiiP”🎶 Had me belly Laughing 😭😭(Inquirer Here)
High church Protestant here. There’s currently a generational divide in our church. The congregation in their 70’s and older AND the young millennial families like the liturgy and everything traditional, and the boomers and gen x want to turn it into a trendy non-denom. The non-denominational flavor is no longer something to attract young people, it’s to attract boomers and gen x.
@@shana8055 Very interesting! I agree this is likely a generational/cultural shift we’re experiencing more broadly.
this checked a lot of boxes. a lot of the same things i thought or noticed you hit on for sure. the femininity of protestantism (80% of my old church was women), disingenuous, half hearted, untraditional (including secularistic or heretical ideas), flat out rejecting parts of the new testament, list goes on. i appreciate what protestantism did for me and others, opening a door to the faith. but i could never see it as anything more than a stepping stone. forgot to add, 2 days time, wednesday, is my first class for catechism. i am so grateful to God and those like you that preach the truth.
"Soy Christianity" is a brilliantly apt title
Christianity has always been soy. Except maybe for the very first church.
I am Catholic but thinking about becoming Orthodox. For the same exact reasons you name here. The problem is, there is no Orthodox Church anywhere near, where I live.
@@edelkebap That’s definitely tough. I know some people that drive an hour or more to attend my parish. Maybe reach out to an Orthodox priest via email and see what he recommends?
Have you tried looking for a Traditional Latin Mass?
Don't feel pressured to churn out videos and build a giant channel. What you are doing, including this, is good.
True.
@@wjckc79 Thanks for the encouragement! I actually have plenty of videos coming soon 😅 but I will keep that in mind!
Something a soy man with no ambition would say... We should always be striving to reach out to more people, to spread the gospel.
We need western women to come over too! The Bulgarian women at my church are full on based! Head covers all! bowing, kissing icons and crossing furiously. Oh i forget... i attend a Bulgarian Orthodox church and im the only English guy and i love it. Friendliest and most devout people i have ever met.
One right here! 🙋♀️ I started attending Divine Liturgy and classes at a Russian Orthodox church!
Sounds like a night mare. Kissing idols and performing to look good, just like the Bible says not to do. Don't count on many western women joining, your church will probably appeal to the lonely, single male who read Jordan Petersons book and use words like "based" and like politics and arguing online about gaslighting, straw men etc..
@@br.m Are icons idols? Are they gods? Are they worshiped? There is a line to understand showing respect to the saints that have gone before us, who are alive at the throne of God in Heaven. With how iconoclastic Protestantism is, and how it has removed the saints, I can see how it is a stumbling block. But do not comment out of ignorance if you have not looked into the subject as you made clear.
@@JordanBrown-km5kf Yes icons are idols so are relics, saints and Mary. No they are not gods, not exactly and yes they are worshiped.
There is no line to understand. It's facts and not debatable.
The last half or 3/4 of your comment is nonsense, ignorant nonsense.. Then you accuse me of being ignorant.. Well I am not here to debate with fools or beat the dead horse. Obviously you are conditioned to drink the kool aid, thats how it works. I'm not ignorant of all your talking points and arguments and lies you must repeat to justify the idolatry.
Please therefore spare me more comments. Once I realized the video I clicked on was Orthodox propaganda, I am not interested so good luck! Bye.
Yea. But then you go to Ortho countries and see the depravity in so-called orthodox people.
The issues of "basedness" isn't about denomination, but of prominence of denomination. The more prominent denomination is, the more depraved it becomes, sadly. In many Ortho majority countries you have full on political power struggles, with bishops poisoning and assassinating each other, with general church goers being nominal Christians, who live secular lives and only attend Church at holidays, and even that just to have a reason to party.
On the other hand, when you go to many of the baptist churches in those countries, they are the ones with head coverings and modesty all day long, and not only at the Church service.
Don’t forget Harmony on that list of Orthodox resources.
I recently converted to byzantine catholicism, I was baptized June 16th, the main thing that drew me in coming from a protestant upbringing, My priest, told me I must suffer, it will be hard, etc. This is the kind of stuff that makes men men, not emotional little heart warming messages from pastors trying to ride an emotional high. It's incredible. I am already seeing a change in myself.
you converted to Roman Catholicism, not to Orthodoxy. You need to convert to Orthodoxy.
Congratulations
I'm an Orthodox convert. I became Orthodox because I researched about the Church history, and found out this was the original church. Found out I've been lied to. They said the Orthodox people added to the bible, I've come to find out they were the ones who removed it. I also found out the protestants were the ones who broke from the original church of Christ, and so did the Catholics.
The orthodox Church is relevant by not changing.
Others change trying to be relevant but fail to be.
Lord have mercy on us all sinners.
Kyrie eleison ☦️
True. People are tired of all the changes and the modernism and the Marvin milk toast Christianity and/or tired of the woke-ism and the antichrist agendas that are being pushed everywhere. People are hungry for traditional roots and old fashion authenticity.
Now people want something raw and true and classic which has stood the test of time. Which is why many are sadly turning to Islam and other religions..but there’s another option…Orthodox Christianity!
I’ve been visiting a couple of different orthodox parishes in my area, but only for Saturday vespers. I’m not yet able to attend Sunday liturgy because of obligations I have at my home church, but I am looking forward to being able to do so very soon!
@@Hopmeister96 Keep seeking! God will certainly honor your efforts.
Great video! I was just catechized last Sunday after being an inquirer for the past 4 months. Your channel and the ones you mentioned helped tremendously in getting me here. Glory to God!
If I were to become a Christian, I would be Orthodox.
Great video! I went to my first liturgy last week and I am still in awe. It felt like I worshipped for the first time. I feel such a strong pull into orthodoxy. Regular Protestant churches are missing the mark in my experience
Notice Jordan Peterson still uses Christianity as a classical liberal crutch while his wife led herself to Catholicism
Some people like Jordan Peterson are just "too smart" to actually make a decision and stand somewhere.
It would be as though they placed themselves in a corner or up against a wall when it comes to actually having to defend that position rather than casually defending it from a detached and uninvolved position.
Think of them as intellectual sell-swords. Definitely deist, lite-theist, one that will never trade the smell of his own farts for Frankincense.
From a Catholic brother, this is right on. Soy Christianity is why I left the Baptist denomination.
You said just what I was thinking! Great. Thanks and God bless, brother
This is super relatable as someone who grew up in the non denominational charismatic movement, as a missionary kid, youth leader, and worship leader until I was 24. What a wild thing to have your eyes opened and start to live out the mind of the church. It’s been a two year journey but it’s the best one I’ve made in my life. Glory to God in all things!
6:12 Including Jordan Peterson when referring to soy is very applicable. I can't think of someone who is a bumbling mess more than him these days. How ironic.
You expressed this well. I was attending a non denominational church, with the modern music, lights /concert type worship. At first it was intriguing, but I realized every Sunday, the associate pastor would come out and say “The spirit is moving” “I know God is doing something special today”…. And now that I write that I cringe. The music gives you an emotional high, followed by a pastors sermon that’s little more than “Self help with Jesus”. Sure it makes you think for a moment, you laugh, then you leave and nothing really changes. And communion is a little single serve plastic cup with grape juice and a cracker. There isn’t even a prayer said, just music played. It all felt very superficial.
Within the first day attending a Divine Liturgy, I cried - not tears invoked by music, but a real presence knowing God had called me home. I don’t have any animosity towards my Protestant past because it’s a part of my journey to Jesus Christ.
I’m now on my way to being a catechumen 🙏🏽☦️
Thank you Lord! ❤ I’m home
@@skatermom8259 Glory to God! I’m sure you understand where I’m coming from, the contrast is night and day.
Excellent videos before vesper tonight. Love the channel.
☦️
I might go visit a monastery this weekend. Unfortunately i dont know what to do but hopefully things pan out. May the Holy Spirit guide me to the church of Christ.
Might be a good idea to contact them before you go. Some have rules about dress and other things that would be good to know ahead of time. I haven't been yet myself but nearly everyone I talk to at my Church has asked me if I've been to a monastery yet and when I say that I haven't they're all, "you have to go! You'll love it!" 😄
Can't wait! God bless you on your journey
@@MURDANA_ I second what the other commenter said about reaching out first. They can give you an idea of what to expect.
@@kg2096 Thank you for your response! I am blessed to be so close to a monastery here in Texas. I will definitely be reaching out here today, I have been an inquirer of all 3 branches of our faith for a year now but have never been to a divine liturgy, let alone a monastery, so I'll definitely make sure to call with questions and for direction. I'll also probably watch a good amount of videos to make sure as well. I may visit a vespers at a regular church this evening as a bit of an intro so I'm not so ignorant. Does that sound appropriate?
@@untoages I appreciate you both. Would you mind checking over my response to kg2096 and let me know if I'm going about this the right way?
@@MURDANA_ Might depend on your perish, but mine was super welcoming and would have loved an inquirer at any service.
After converting to Orthodoxy my wife and I watched a video of a “Freedom Sunday” service. We were very confused.
@@kemptonbryan It is very strange in hindsight lol
And this is one of the Main reasons I wanna become orthodox The baptist Church does not cut it for me and it really bothers my family That I want to go in this journey. And I understand why I was raised in the Baptist church And I understand why I was raised in the Baptist church but I'm growing as man I'm 24.
And I know where I want to be with that being said what's the best advice you can give me
Get in touch with a priest and show your family through your interactions that Orthodoxy is sanctifying you.
@@Handycan-x8m The best advice I can give is go to church. The Orthodox Church, of course 😉
Come and see! Attend services (Vespers, Divine Liturgy) talk to to closest priest near you. God Bless you on your journey brother.
Just don’t listen to Gavin Ortlund and other Protestants who are constantly trying to debunk it. He thinks everything is an accretion except Protestantism. Lol 😆
There’s endless info online now videos and books you can read on the subject. But honestly the BEST and preferred method is the old fashioned timeless method…just GO to the parish. Talk to the priest and start your seeker period or catechumen period….bcz this will take a long time to go thru anyway so you can be properly educated, taught, and formed into an orthodox Christian. It’s opposite of Protestantism where you just go say a prayer and ta-dah like magic 🪄 you’re automatically a Christian and a member of the church overnight. Ancient Christianity doesn’t work that way. There’s a process. So go get started. ….. start here ☝🏽
*Ferociously B A S E D*
Would you be able to do a video on the eastern rite catholics? Because I’m still trying to figure out how they have communion with Rome, despite the fact that they are so different. That’s always interested me. I still think it’s kind of weird.
Communion with Rome is sharing in Rome's demonic heresies like Filioque, Immaculate Conception, Sacred Heart, Purgatory, Papal infailability and so on and so forth.
Study the political history of Uniatism. That whole movement is people's who were captured or conned into communion with Rome by political and material coercions much of it horrific and bloody.
Even the Orthodox used to consider the Bishop of Rome the first among equals.
@@georgemartin1383 that was just an honorific title. That doesn't mean Rome owns Christianity. Far from it.
@@ericvechery8853 I did briefly discuss them in the my video titled “How The Great Schism Changed History,” though I may come back and elaborate further. But yes, it seems pretty incoherent that they’re in communion with Rome.
Son, the dragon men need to fight is throughout the week. We don’t need it in a church. Church time is a sanctuary from the “manly” battle. Living worship involves the heart and , yes, the emotions.
@@jimmillhouse5912 I think you’re missing the point. What I’m saying is these low-church branches of Christianity don’t require anything of their adherents - theologically speaking, repentance becomes optional. But in Orthodoxy, waging war against our sin is a requirement.
I love Orthodoxy
So then, read the masterpiece novel "Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke." Fascinating. Explains how to ascend as a Christian. Enjoy!
Christ be with you Always. IC XC NIKA!
This is true I use to attend the novus ordo mass
Went from Non Denom to Roman Cath and I feel so calm and I love having something actually worthy to serve to, the church I went to as a kid was just a lousy rock concert with a Bible study. I wasn't the fan of the music and when looking into history and The Church itself, what's the point in studying a book when there's been stuff cut out?
I feel like everything is whole now, I have leas worries, I feel happier, etc etc
Lore of Soy Christianity Isn't Going to Cut It momentum 100
“Christianity is not a religion, it’s a relationship.” Hearing that from non-denominationals makes me want to throw up!
@@tru2thastyle Same
I get what they try to say when they say that line. But I never liked it even as a teenager. The word 'religion' isn't supposed to be a swear word. And yes, you have a relationship personal to you with God. But man.... I always hated how it came off. Because it literally does sound feminine. Like it was made to appeal to highschool girls who got dumped by their boyfriends or something....
Sorry, but when the Pope no longer holds solid RCC beliefs you can't claim it is doing well.
The Scriptures are the ultimate authority and seeking them out is the only good approach.
An Orthodox service may fill some needs, but it is not growing either.
I am not much for weak sauce Christianity either. That fails in many areas as you correctly note
This was interesting.
love the clickbait title, and message
based.
6:21 "Are you welcomed?... How do you feel?... Tell me what's on your heart?... Have you tried the massage machine?" 😅😂🤣 Instantly like 👍
I pray this youtube migration to orthodoxy doesn’t turn into a cringefest freakshow like so many others (watches next soy heretic getting rekt video)
I agree mostly as one of those "soy Christians". I think the points you bring up are legitimate reasons why people join the Orthodox Church but I don't think they're good reasons.
@@N8R_Quizzie More broadly, the point I’m making is that Orthodoxy is a rich, mystical, sacramental and traditional form of Christianity in a culture that broadly rejects those concepts (ie, evangelicalism). People are responding intuitively to these bigger picture issues, not just the shallow aesthetic differences. It’s really a completely different worldview and I’d say that’s a perfectly valid reason for converting.
I was following you until “evangelicals don’t have a priesthood”. Never read the book of Hebrews, I gather?
@@matthewdyer2926 The “priesthood of all believers” that evangelicals make claim to is not the same thing as apostolic succession, nor do they have a priest who makes sacrifice on their behalf. My point is they have no continuity with the early Church.
@@untoages The sacrifice has already been made. Subsequent sacrifices are an abomination and a disgrace to the death and resurrection of Christ, and Christ is our eternal High Priest and Mediator. Apostles were not priests, and they did not offer sacrifices, because they understood this. This question is sincere- have you never read the book of Hebrews, particularly chapters eight and nine? Excerpt:
“Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,
“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired,
but a body have you prepared for me;
in burnt offerings and sin offerings
you have taken no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God,
as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’”
When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.”
By the way, I love the spirit and sentiment of your video. As a Protestant, I am disgusted with soft and effeminate evangelicalism. The reformers and Puritans wouldn’t recognize the church today.
Beware of judging other Christians too harshly, and remember that in many New Testament texts there are examples of house churches, which I can't imagine were too ornate given the persecution of Christians at that time. I also look to my own country's history, Northern Ireland, during the era of the penal laws, and think back to how Catholics and Presbyterians worshipped God in hedge schools, which were worshippers gathering in the countryside, for fear of persecution. Sometimes they would also worship God in ruined churches or monasteries.
That being said, you make some great points about things going awry in some modern churches. Makes me think of Jude v4. Many blessings to you and your ministry.
I wanted to weigh in on your mention of house churches. Actually they were very liturgical. It wasnt house church like we do in america. The wealthy would dedicate and consecrate a room in their home or rooms in their home for worship and the Eucharist.
We have archeological evidence of this now. Due to persecution of the Christians they had to do this but...we have evidence of chalis' for communion, candles, even clergy garments. We have iconography that early as well. So dont think it was just willy nilly everyone bring their bibles and lets sit in the living room and have devotions...that was NOT what was happening. Hope this helps
Maybe not as ornate as a cathedral or the temple in Jerusalem, but I do not think it reasonable to assume that they were not at all ornate. In scripture, one of the first instances we hear of Lord filling a man with the Spirit of God was for the purpose of devising cunning works, in gold, silver, brass, etc.
Exodus 31:1-5
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah: And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, To devise cunning works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass, And in cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of timber, to work in all manner of workmanship.
The same Spirit, which moved the Son of Uri to work in all manner of workmanship, was also working in the apostles and their disciples. And He would have surely caused them to make beautiful the spaces dedicated to him. God has always desired that spaces dedicated to him should be beautiful and that we should give our first fruits him. If a group of Christians are unable to decorate their sanctuary out of poverty that is perfectly understandable. But this is not the situation for most Protestant churches in America. We are the wealthiest nation in history.
Additionally, those house churches were often provided by wealthier members of the church. These people would often take a room in their house and would set it aside for church use. If they were wealthy enough to donate a room of their house, then they were probably wealthy enough to make it a little ornate.
@@boardbill5852 if that's how God speaks to you my friend.
Western Christianity is the denial of what the Scriptures say about the Church, and this is one of the reasons why they aren't a part of the Church and hasn't been for 1000 years.
@@JamieMacKrell God speaks through visions, the scriptures, etc. Leaving a beige wall empty or covering in with icons to honor Him I would not call God speaking to me.
Hey, if you need better intro music I'd love to help. No charge.
if you know the detailed nutritional data charts about soy some people would probably not ridicule it like that
I agree with everything you say in this video, but theologically I could never become orthodox, I just fundamentally disagree with the theological positions of orthodoxy.
@@pipinfresh Take your time and explore Orthodoxy. No one expects you to convert tomorrow. It took several years for things to settle for me regarding Orthodox theology. Just be careful not to put yourself above God when in comes to what you prefer.
@@untoages I've studied the various traditions for years now, and I seem to be unable to find a home. I am Reformed in my theology, but Reformed according to the classic sense not this modern watered down version. I lean Anglican in many aspects, but also Presbyterian, and even Lutheran. Aesthetically Orthodox wins hands down. But aesthetics isn't enough to make me convert, I have to be fully convinced by the doctrines to even consider it, but in my studies I just haven't been convinced.
@@pipinfreshTheologically Eastern Orthodoxy wins hands down. You need to research it more. No other branch comes close.
@@shobudski6776 I'm sorry, but I have explored orthodoxy and I wasn't convinced. Like I said I am Reformed, meaning I hold to Reformed soteriology which is rejected by the orthodox church.
@@pipinfresh I tend to have a different approach when it comes to these matters. I don’t really care what I think or what I want, because that may or may not have any relation to what is actually true. Instead, I look at what has always been believed by Christians. Reformed theology pops up at a distinct period of time and is in opposition to what came before. And by that regard, it’s just as much of an innovation as what Rome came up with post-schism. Personally, I wouldn’t want to find something that fits “me” and my tastes if I were you - that’s not a good metric for what is actually true. Maybe visit an Orthodox parish and speak with a priest about it. These things tend to make more sense in context rather than in the theoretical, intellectual bubble that is the internet.
Idk who you hang out with. Most of my fellow youngsters are still hung up on Joe Biden as if despite everything he’s still a legitimate choice
@@tylermcflyer3061 I don’t know anyone who supports him (young or old), but I also live in Tennessee
do we ever good enough?
Authentical.
NOT rabbinical=maniacal !!!!
You need to have , on̈ average, $2,100 , to belong to a synagogue
Agree with the points made but ironically the narrators voice is pretty soy 😅.
No hate just some light jabbing 😂
I think his voice sounds young.
@@VictorG10264 Plot twist: I am the most soy of them all 😮
Have you listened to the voice of Saint Porphyrios, St Paisios, or Elder Ephraim? They don’t tend to be hypermasculine but pure and childlike
1 peter 2:9
It's all fake.
What is real then?
Pastor Steven Anderson he has good seremons on orthodoxy
Is this satire 😂
Indeed i find it interesting how he had a toddler tantrum when a 1st time newcomer asked for prayers
@@KyrieEleiso_n you mean that heretic freak?
Oriental Orthodoxy is the true variant of Orthodoxy, staying true to the foundations of the faith..For those interested..
I agree with you but I don’t think soy Christianity is feminised that’s an insult to us women I believe it’s infantilised
@@Hmmmmmm674 I think it’s both. It’s an emotional brand of Christianity (not that it’s a bad thing that women can be emotional - men and women have different strengths, emotional intuition is generally stronger in women than men) but that is obviously NOT a good thing for Christianity to be. It’s also infantilized because it lacks maturity and spiritual depth.
@@untoages I thought it was infantilised more than feminised because it’s incapable of any spiritual depth thought it can ‘feel’ like someone is truly living a Christian life didn’t really think about the emotional aspect
Sorry, I gotta say something. In the first five minutes, you made three absolutely erroneous statements within thirty seconds of each other that badly need correcting.
1. Evangelicals don't have a priesthood
2. Evangelicals don't have a sacrifice
3. Evangelical worship is therefore invalid
None of these statements are true.
1. Evangelicals *do* have a priesthood, which is currently serviced by our High Priest; that High Priest is Jesus Christ (Hebrews 2:17-3:2; 4:14-5:11; 7:17-28).
2. Evangelicals *do* have a sacrifice; that sacrifice, once again, is Christ. This is self-evident throughout the New Testament, and to explore this would take more space than RUclips comment sections allow.
3. Evangelical worship--depending upon the denomination--is *entirely* valid.
What worship does Orthodoxy offer? The same old prayers, recited endlessly? Well, there are times when this is appropriate. There are times when one must be silent, or solemn, in the presence of God. There are times when one may recite memorized prayers in the ears of God, like the performance of a classic well-loved song. But what does the Bible say? King David danced before God in worship, and his worship was valid. The book of Psalms, chapter 150, tells us to praise God with stringed instruments, cymbals, and trumpets, and dance. The Bible tells us that this worship is valid.
Now, worship to God is invalid if it's insincere, or offered in a way similar to the ways of worship of pagan gods. So, if one recites formulaic and unvarying prayers, if they are recited and re-recited because the person recited things he will be heard through much recitation, then such prayers are invalid, because this is how the pagans pray to their gods. Prayers are not magic words, after all. And I worship with my spirit, and I worship in truth. I worship with stringed instruments, and with dance. Why do I do this? Not because of my skill or my goodness--I received both from God, and they cannot impress Him. No, I play, and I dance, and I shout, and I celebrate because I know who God is, and how great He is, and all the wonderful things He has done for me. He merits my playing; His generosity and patience merits my dancing; His sacrifice on the cross merits my loud and enthusiastic praise in His presence. And sometimes, we do keep silent in His presence, because it is appropriate to the occasion.
Now, there are evangelical denominations that have sold out the Gospel because they love the praise of men rather than the praise of God. They are easily identified, and the less said about them, the better. But there are those of us who seek diligently after God, who worship Him in spirit and in truth, who have not partaken of the various corruptions both modern and ancient. We are not "soy," and by God's grace, never will be.
@@lanerussell7958 By definition, evangelicals, and Protestants more broadly, do not have a priesthood. They reject the priesthood as such as have no apostolic succession. While you can pay lip service to the Great High Priest, it doesn’t mean much if you’re not following after Him in your means of worship. Orthodox liturgy follows the pattern of worship revealed to Moses. We’re not at liberty to pick and choose how we worship - God already revealed how it should be done. Liturgical worship is all throughout the Bible. Speaking of Hebrews, that entire book makes no sense without liturgy in mind.
And again, by definition, evangelicals believe the Eucharist is just a symbol, therefore it is not a sacrifice - just a symbol. If you look at any form of ancient worship, whether Jewish or pagan, all required a sacrifice to be made on behalf of the people. For the Jews, this was done with a priest. I agree that Christ is the Eternal Sacrifice - but you can’t get there if you believe the Eucharist is just a symbol.
THESE are the standards by which worship is deemed valid and has been for most of history. Not “if it’s sincere.”
@@untoages the Scriptures don't seem to agree. Nowhere in Acts do Christians appoint a priest, understanding that Christ has completed the priesthood. If you understand that His outpouring of His Holy Ghost upon all the believers in Acts 2 confers His authority upon them all, then you understand the fulfillment of God's promise to Israel that they should be a nation of kings and priests to Him has been extended to the entire world, whoever shall come. That being the case, building upon the priesthood of Aaron seems to be just the reconstruction of dead works.
I agree that we're not at liberty to pick and choose how we worship; however, your saying that forms of worship specifically commanded by the Bible aren't valid, and I'm saying that they are. Now, I've never been to an Orthodox church; but from what I understand, it resembles Roman Catholicism without the heresies they invented after 1054. Nowhere in the Bible have i read anything prescribed that goes on in a Catholic church, and since I imagine Orthodoxy to proceed similarly, I surmise that the Orthodox liturgy was cast along a similar pattern. However, I admit you would, necessarily, know more than I do about that.
The Eucharist, as you term it, is indeed a symbol, since Christ is already omnipresent; and is indeed in the midst of where two or three are gathered in His Name. Let me ask, when Christ first broke the bread and shared the wine with His disciples, were the bread and wine His literal flesh and blood then? No, of course not, because Christ was already with them bodily. He wasn't transubstantiating, He was reciting the terms of a Galilean engagement, with Himself as groom and His disciples as bride. Otherwise, why did He not cut off a piece of Himself and bleed into a cup? You forget: these men were committed Jews. Cannibalism isn't kosher, you don't eat your own flesh, nor that taken from an animal that's still alive. He was framing what was to happen in terms they would understand. The Romanizing of the Church grotesquely distorted many of the core doctrines, opening the way for error to dominate from 381 until today.
As to sincerity not being a metric for worship, Christ Himself seemed pretty concerned with it, especially when He told the Samaritan woman at the well that worship must be in Spirit and in Truth--two things that the Pharisees were notably missing, though they worshipped according to their liturgy, and do so even today. The Sadducees, as well, followed Moses very strictly, as they rejected the Writings and the Prophets of the Old Testament; in fact, one might say that they followed the liturgy of Moses to a degree that Orthodoxy cannot! Though, I'm still not clear on whether any of the Saducees were Levites. Jesus Christ didn't think too well of them, either. However, I in my own life have seen God come to the aid of Baptists, Roman Catholics, Presbyterians, and even atheists when they cry out in desperation to Him without the benefit of liturgy, or even of any form or structure of worship. I can only conclude that God is not impressed by rank, or vestments, or liturgy, or denomination; but that the same God is rich unto all who cry out to Him with broken heart and contrite spirit, liturgy notwithstanding. However, I must add that even among the atheist who desired help, very few of those I've seen helped have troubled themselves to follow after their Helper, even as I encouraged them to do so. Nevertheless, I've seen God move in response to need, desperation, even; but never in response to liturgy.
@@lanerussell7958 First, Jesus already chose the apostles. They are considered the first bishops of the Church. They ordained people by the laying on of hands (which is seen in Acts). Priests came later as the Church grew and bishops weren't able to do everything, so the priests functioned of the bishop's behalf, and still do to this day.
I don't believe you understand the difference between "worship" and "veneration." One can sing songs of praise and thanksgiving - this does not constitute "worship," but rather "veneration." Worship is properly due to God alone and can only be done with A. a priest or bishop B. the people and C. the sacrifice (Christ Himself).
I don't adhere to sola-scriptura, so the idea that everything is just in the Bible is simply historically ignorant. St. Paul says to hold on to his teachings whether by word or epistle, meaning word of mouth or written epistle. The Bible IS tradition. Who gave you the Bible in the first place? The Church. Don't you think the Body that gave you the Scriptures is in a better place to understand and explains its context?
The Eucharist is not just a symbol. This is why people were scandalized when Jesus first taught about it and they chose to leave Him. This is why St. Paul warns not to partake in an unworthy manner, "for some have fallen asleep and died." This doesn't sound like a symbol to me. It's not a later Roman innovation, everyone believed this from the earliest eras of the Church. Read St. Ignatius or any of the early fathers. It also makes no sense for you to claim to have "sacrifice" but believe the Eucharist is just a symbol.
Lastly, I'd recommend doing a little more homework on Orthodoxy. A lot of Protestants try to copy and paste their arguments against Catholicism to Orthodoxy, and it just doesn't work. You say you've never been to liturgy but you know God doesn't work in liturgy. This just reeks of personal incredulity.
In conclusion, your inclination against vain worship is warranted, as Christ Himself railed against the Pharisees for this. I would argue that the "worship" (ie veneration) of evangelicals is far more vain, irreverent, and historically inconsistent with the way all Christians before have worshipped. You even admit not knowing much about Orthodoxy or liturgy. There's a lot of history and context that you're unaware of, and that's not your fault. I'd recommend Fr. Stephen De Young's book, "Religion of the Apostles." And check out a liturgy sometime. You may be pleasantly surprised by what you experience.
@@untoagesnah. I will admit I have never met an orthodox Christian there aren’t many of yall to zero where I come from (Louisiana) - however catholic is the majority here. Pretty much every catholic I know is dead in their faith. Caught up in ritualism, not even knowing popular verses from the Bible. I don’t know if you could call me “Protestant” but I am as far away from organized religion as possible. I walk and talk with Yeshua, have a personal relationship with him, feel the Holy Spirit in my life / fruits of the spirit, spread the good news to friends and strangers alike, and constantly repent of my sins and am washed clean daily by the good lord. I am saved. If I was broke poor in a foreign country surrounded by unbelievers with no Catholic Churches or orthodox monasteries and could therefore do none of the rituals, be baptized by another, not have my sin absolved by a human intercessor, not be able to take communion, or even know what a Eucharist is, a catholic would tell me I wasn’t saved. Not quite sure what your viewpoint is but this is just plain wrong. We know from Isaiah that God wanted a relationship and for people to truly change their ways than baseless rituals - Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to Me. New Moons, Sabbaths, and convocations- I cannot bear with evil assemblies.
14
My soul hates your New Moons and your appointed feasts; they are a burden to Me; I am weary of bearing them.
15
When you reach out your hands, I will hide My eyes from you; even when you make many prayers, I will not hear.
Your hands are full of blood. Blessed are those who pray in quiet and cry out to the Lord God. As for the caption of this video… lol… me and my friends are some of the most masculine and strong Christians (physical, emotionally, spiritually) that you’ll see. Now, are there tons of non-denominational / Protestant people who get it wrong and who shallowly attend church and think singing songs and being there will save them? Of course. Just like anywhere else I guarantee u Eastern Orthodoxy does too. I have respect for EO because of some priests I see on my algorithm who have become a bit famous recently and they truly do speak words of wisdom. However Jesus ABHORRED the ways of the Pharisees - and I truly believe that having so much ritual is just a path to being just like them. I also follow the Septuigent. The first, true, unedited Bible. No saints, no added books, just the Old Testament and complete cannon of the new. Doesn’t God say that whoever adds on to his word will be cursed? It’s all about our relationship with Yeshua and if we are truly repentant and if we truly take up our cross daily and fight for him. At the end of the day, I can tell your striving towards Jesus and so am I, so arnt we both saved? The question is, what’s the best way to do it and save others…I guess we’ll see in heaven my friend
Lost me immediately at Protestantism....AND Catholicism are changing. Catholicism hasn't "changed" any more than "Orthodoxy" has, unless you want to claim that the evolution of the Eastern churches was also bad until the 11th century.
So the papacy launching crusades against Islam and declaring it "religion of Antichrist" in the middle ages vs V2 declaring them brothers in faith isn't a significant change?
@@RealAugustusAutumn Catholicism is rapidly changing. All you have to do is look to the pope to see new, radical statements regularly, such as his latest pluralist innovation.
Bruh the Pope is literally a Perennialist who says that all other religions are valid paths to arrive at union with God
@@untoages That's not Catholicism, that's the Pope, and that's THIS Pope. I understand the opposition - as a Catholic I really do - but a good soldier doesn't abandon his regiment just because he has a bad leader at that moment.
I don't know how involved you are in keeping up with the news from all the "Orthodox" churches, but Patriarchs, Metropolitans, and Bishops change in the same way just as much. The "Orthodox" churches are extremely political. I know firsthand that the church in America is kind of unique, at least the OCROR is, because they're starting from scratch with one political identity. They're lucky in that regard.
@@RealAugustusAutumn If the papacy, which can suppposedly never err in morals or theology, contradicts itself on morals and theology, that should be obvious that isn't the true church.
My own native southern baptist is all i ever will attend sorry
Your comment stinks of pride protestant.
Unfortunate.
@@Stand_watie sad that your pride blinds you from the historical ancient apostolic church of Christ.
"My own pagan ritual is all I will ever attend"
- A pagan, probably
for your own sake, i advise you to at least learn church history. we have no excuse to remain ignorant.