This $390 six watt per channel tube amplifier has taught me A LOT these past couple of months. I hope some of my fans who specialize in tube gear can help answer some further questions for me in this video after I point out two tips for newcomers to tube amps. Do you prefer tube or solid state amps?
I just got the Cayin MT-12N EL84EH integrated amp from Drop that is rated at 10 watts. I wanted it for my secondary system which has Wharfedale Diamond 12.0 speakers rated at 85 dB. I was assuming I would need to get more sensitive speakers but once I hooked it up I realized that was not necessary at all, as hitting the 12 o'clock position on the volume is very loud. What really got me was the sound quality,, as the bass was deeper than I'd heard with solid state and it was smooth and richer. This has been an awesome combination for me, and this amp is a bargain at $479.
It is not just speaker sensitivity that is important, you can have 2 speakers at 93 db. @ 1 watt. And one will sound lifeless, the other will sound vibrant and dynamic. Even more important than sensitivity is matching the impedance curve of the amplifier with a speaker that reacts well with in its specific curve. This is why you have to audition speakers. Also keep speaker cables short and nothing under 10 awg. This will help keep bass tight. If you own a tube amp you own a good multimeter to occasionally check the tube bias.
If it’s cathode biased,no need to set the bias..it does it automatically…if it’s a fixed bias design,then yes,you will need to bias the amp when changing tubes…
Thank you for this really informative video. I've been wondering about all of the topics you touched upon & looking forward to seeing some viewer replies in response to the questions you posed. Great channel!
Very nice presentation..and useful too. As a 25 Years user of SET tube amp...I am free to present my own experiance: Most influance on sound have p.p. tubes, than power once and the list one...rectifier tubes. Subwoofer...is of great benefit..with high level inputs ..and sealed one. PS. Cost effective and great one is SVS SB 1000!
I've owned the Reisong A12 (6 WPC) for a year, and I love it for 2 channel music! A nice feature is that the A12 can be used as a integrated amp or power amp (which is how I use it), as it's preamp section is passive. I'm using the A12 with, ironically, a Marantz Cinema 50 AVR (C50) in the role of a 4 channel surround music preamp. I really enjoy surround mode for live recordings on occasion and the C50 supports this via 2 channel sources from a PC custom built as a audio file server and good old - fashioned Dolby Surround. I'm pleasantly surprised how good the C50 sounds for my use case as a DAC/Preamp. Two other benefits of using the C50: It does bass management very well allowing easy crossover from my Gallo Acoustics Strada 2 speakers which are not designed to go low, to a pair of Dayton Audio MKSX4 passive woofers For the Dayton woofers. Note that I called them "woofers" as the Daytons are designed to only extend to 40 Hz, which is fine for about 95% of my music collection. The woofers are powered by the mighty-mite (aka Aiyima A07 class D "palm" amp-my nickname for the A07 because I can easily hold one in the palm of my hand)😁. In terms of bass performance it gets better in two ways. The C50 allows for running my pair of woofers in true stereo which is useful, as set the crossover to the Strada 2's at 120 Hz. At this frequency I can hear where woofers are located, but I have each woofer physically located near each speaker so they blend perfectly. Finally, I ran room correction via the Audyssey app on my tablet and applied its correction from 250 Hz down. This tightened up the bass significantly, allowing me to hear the full bass potential of the Aiyima-Dayton woofer combo. In short, super-tight, quick, well defined bass! Coming back to the Reisong A12, I love its contribution to the music as it does the "tube thing": Holographic sound staging and imaging, great clarity, slight touch of warmth but not too much-rock sounds great on my system. The A12 currently sells for $500 on Amazon, and I wouldn't pay much more than this for a tube at this point, as the law of diminishing returns come into play at this price. What a great time to be an audiophile: Very high performance for less!
I've a pair of Wavelength Mercury 4W amplifiers driving fullrange 93dB speakers (-3dB @ 57Hz) in TQWT enclosures. Augmented the bass with a powered subwoofer (-4dB @ 37Hz): two opposing 6" drivers in a sealed box driven by separate bridge amp modules. The sub has both gain and low pass frequency roll off settings.
You only need to bias the output tubes, but a "hot" and "ground" point is needed to see the bias with a meter and a trim pot for each tube to adjust bias, otherwise, there is nothing you can do other than changing out the bias resistor. Does the instruction tell you what is the correct value, if not you are SOL. You can buy bias tools off eBay that insert between the amp and tube to read the bias, but w/o a trim pot and knowing the correct value they are of little use, except to verify they are of the same value and thus probably OK.
I run one of my low power tube amps with a smallish sub which has high level (speaker) inputs and just couple the amp speaker outputs & sub inputs. Don't lose much tube amp power and get all that easy bass!
When I got my Heresy IV’s the world of tubes was laid before me. Super fun. I have a vintage flea watt ( 10) amp and got the Willsenton R8 . Yeah sits fun again
Great vid! Subwoofer? = Yes. Monoprice makes some good ones at a cheap price to dip you toes into subwoofers. Even Rockville has some great deals on subs. I have a Decware UFO2 and a Douk tube amp (with similar output wattage).They are very holographic and clean sounding but you really DO need a subwoofer. Have you ever considered open-baffle speakers? Lii makes some really great drivers and Caintuck audio has open-baffles that are like pieces of art. ....but they are not cheap. I think that tube amps sound the best with open-baffle speakers and those types of speakers are super efficient and can change the way you listen to your music. Keep up the great work!
I don't know if it's anybody said this in the comments but the big problem with Chinese tube apps is cheap lightweight iron. For obvious reasons, it's all down to shipping costs. You can't get good bass from undersized output Transformers.
@@ForeverAnalog Sure maybe for China standards but just not beefy enough. For instance if you were to get a single ended transformer from Hammond it would weigh in at 23 pounds for one.
Hi! Thanks for this neat find! I've recently stumbled into tube hybrid systems, one with an Unico Primo integrated, and another with Schiit Freya N with Denafrips Hyperion amp, both of which take to tube rolling nicely. I used to be a straight up solid state guy with Rotel integrateds, or other similar amps. Of course, speakers matter too. Anyway, do you know if this Miaolai is single ended or push-pull? Couldn't figure it out from the seller page.
first off loving all your content!2 awsome stands for the herresy 1.5s.3 is that vincent phono stage? i debated the vincent s v 500 for way too long before pulling the trigger on emotiva p t 2 and a2 amp. still kinda lusting for vincent but its hard to find many reviews that might be called unbiased. but the tube pre amp on the sv 500 intriges me. do you know anything about that integrated. one big reason i got zu dw 2s is the sensitivety with an eye on someday buying also a low powerd tube amp. funny but im doing thebook thing under my herresy 2s now thanks for the tip! until i figure out proper placement i my room. i do have the original stands but big hassels while trying to figure out my room.thanks man!
Great video. I have a question for the audience if that's ok. I recently picked up a 1968 Heathkit AA-32 tube amp rated at 8w/ch. I just happened to own 2 pairs of awesome Sound Dynamics 10s speakers. These are Canadian made from the late '80s and have a 10" woofer, and a horn-loaded tweeter. They were rated at 100dB /w/m sensitivity. I connected a pair to the AA-32 amp and was amazed. I found I had adequate volume and bass. But wanting even more out of the speakers without clipping the amp, my question for the audience is: can an integrated tube amp be used as a pre-amp if it does not have pre-amp outputs? So far I've read that you may be able to connect a line-out converter such as the Kicker KISLOC2 to reduce the speaker-out levels to line levels. Will this work? Thanks
MOSFET amps are a better choice and you don’t have to mess with them. Low power amps are higher in distortion. All types of distortion THD, IM and TIM. Try a Hafler or Adcom with 100W per channel or more. Nothing wrong with the McIntosh except for the output transformer. But those never break down.
I used for 20 years highly recognized 90W/ch Onkyo haveng excellent TIM,. THD and IM data but couldn't find it perfect. Then I replaced it with smaller 50 W/ch Luxman, better only , later with even less tube 17W/ch Pioneer yea, better, , later with 15 Watt tube Bell - that is in some way perfect. but I was still looking for "something" At last I build my own 2 Watt per channel and guess? With widerange compact size speakers I will never go back to any from past.
ONE QUESTION ......Just ordered the amp today 371.00 Can. Funds. Now, I've own 6-7 tubes amps. I will never turn on a tube amp before any speakers connected to the amp. Now If you use headphones.... Can you turn on the amp without speakers connected on the back ???
Normaly , NEVER turn on a tube amp without speakers connected to the amp. This is a headphone tube amp , maybe it is ok . If you did it without damage , it means it is OK . But normally , don't to it. I've own many tube amp. Now I just have my Quickslivers Mono V4 , Fluxion B 2a and my Dynaco St 70 modified. @@ForeverAnalog
Normaly, if you don't connect speakers, then the transformer can not reflect a load and the tubes will only see the wire in the transformer and a big coil as a load. This is basically shorting the tubes to the high voltage and it will cause damage to the amplifier eventually. ( google )
I will not agree with opinion that "solid state provides with deep bass and tube amplifier cannot." Tube amplifier should and can peform to lowest range But It is the case of additional work out/ circuitry which nowadays is not provided . Due to tube amplifier construction and speaker cabinet issues they outperform lowest bass with higher bass range 400- 1000 Hz. Reason of it is very complicated and has a lot to do with speakers They call it "warm" sounding and it overlays existing good low bass. To solve it is only one way- to compensate that issue (for example) with adequate to used speakers and volume loudness correction.I developed additionaly to that more sophisticated circuitry which cannot be enough easy for everyone replicated. Bass may be excellent down to 25 Hz - of course with such bass we cannot expect that 2 Watt power will alow to shake walls but linear loudness up to say 75-80 dB is mantaiined Adding subwoofer will add bass but spoil sound even more. Solid state has uncontrolled lowest range which is often complained. Unfortunately no much is possible to do - high damping factor is not effective. I purchased very aclaimed amplifier with high damping factor and always felt lack of low range controll. The only way is to align speakers construction as much as possible but be aware that any change in speaker construction changes also amplifier response so it is like lucky draw.
![Tee Grizzley - Robbery 8 [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/34_vkNV6wrU/mqdefault.jpg)
This $390 six watt per channel tube amplifier has taught me A LOT these past couple of months. I hope some of my fans who specialize in tube gear can help answer some further questions for me in this video after I point out two tips for newcomers to tube amps. Do you prefer tube or solid state amps?
A self powered sub that you can run line level to could help improve the sound
You get that hollow sound a pre amp usually fixed that. Ditton 25's are amazing with a ST70.
Koss 1020 pairs well with tubes that can put out at least 15w
Can you turn on the amp without speakers connected to it ? :-)
I just got the Cayin MT-12N EL84EH integrated amp from Drop that is rated at 10 watts. I wanted it for my secondary system which has Wharfedale Diamond 12.0 speakers rated at 85 dB. I was assuming I would need to get more sensitive speakers but once I hooked it up I realized that was not necessary at all, as hitting the 12 o'clock position on the volume is very loud. What really got me was the sound quality,, as the bass was deeper than I'd heard with solid state and it was smooth and richer. This has been an awesome combination for me, and this amp is a bargain at $479.
I need to check out that amp, thank for sharing!
It is not just speaker sensitivity that is important, you can have 2 speakers at 93 db. @ 1 watt. And one will sound lifeless, the other will sound vibrant and dynamic.
Even more important than sensitivity is matching the impedance curve of the amplifier with a speaker that reacts well with in its specific curve.
This is why you have to audition speakers.
Also keep speaker cables short and nothing under 10 awg. This will help keep bass tight.
If you own a tube amp you own a good multimeter to occasionally check the tube bias.
Great points, thank you for watching and sharing!
If it’s cathode biased,no need to set the bias..it does it automatically…if it’s a fixed bias design,then yes,you will need to bias the amp when changing tubes…
Wonderful. Thank you!
Thank you for this really informative video. I've been wondering about all of the topics you touched upon & looking forward to seeing some viewer replies in response to the questions you posed. Great channel!
Thank you for watching!
@@ForeverAnalog My pleasure. BTW... I'm also going to find me a copy of 'The Complete Guide to High End Audio'. Thanks for the tip.
It’s a great book!
Very nice presentation..and useful too.
As a 25 Years user of SET tube amp...I am free to present my own experiance:
Most influance on sound have p.p. tubes, than power once and the list one...rectifier tubes.
Subwoofer...is of great benefit..with high level inputs ..and sealed one.
PS. Cost effective and great one is SVS SB 1000!
Thanks for watching and for sharing!
As a HK fan (I have the 330,630, and 930) I very much enjoyed this video! Keep on keeping on.
Awesome! Thank you!
I've owned the Reisong A12 (6 WPC) for a year, and I love it for 2 channel music! A nice feature is that the A12 can be used as a integrated amp or power amp (which is how I use it), as it's preamp section is passive. I'm using the A12 with, ironically, a Marantz Cinema 50 AVR (C50) in the role of a 4 channel surround music preamp. I really enjoy surround mode for live recordings on occasion and the C50 supports this via 2 channel sources from a PC custom built as a audio file server and good old - fashioned Dolby Surround. I'm pleasantly surprised how good the C50 sounds for my use case as a DAC/Preamp. Two other benefits of using the C50: It does bass management very well allowing easy crossover from my Gallo Acoustics Strada 2 speakers which are not designed to go low, to a pair of Dayton Audio MKSX4 passive woofers For the Dayton woofers. Note that I called them "woofers" as the Daytons are designed to only extend to 40 Hz, which is fine for about 95% of my music collection. The woofers are powered by the mighty-mite (aka Aiyima A07 class D "palm" amp-my nickname for the A07 because I can easily hold one in the palm of my hand)😁. In terms of bass performance it gets better in two ways. The C50 allows for running my pair of woofers in true stereo which is useful, as set the crossover to the Strada 2's at 120 Hz. At this frequency I can hear where woofers are located, but I have each woofer physically located near each speaker so they blend perfectly. Finally, I ran room correction via the Audyssey app on my tablet and applied its correction from 250 Hz down. This tightened up the bass significantly, allowing me to hear the full bass potential of the Aiyima-Dayton woofer combo. In short, super-tight, quick, well defined bass! Coming back to the Reisong A12, I love its contribution to the music as it does the "tube thing": Holographic sound staging and imaging, great clarity, slight touch of warmth but not too much-rock sounds great on my system. The A12 currently sells for $500 on Amazon, and I wouldn't pay much more than this for a tube at this point, as the law of diminishing returns come into play at this price. What a great time to be an audiophile: Very high performance for less!
Awesome, thank you for sharing and for watching!
I've a pair of Wavelength Mercury 4W amplifiers driving fullrange 93dB speakers (-3dB @ 57Hz) in TQWT enclosures. Augmented the bass with a powered subwoofer (-4dB @ 37Hz): two opposing 6" drivers in a sealed box driven by separate bridge amp modules. The sub has both gain and low pass frequency roll off settings.
Awesome setup! Thanks for watching!
You only need to bias the output tubes, but a "hot" and "ground" point is needed to see the bias with a meter and a trim pot for each tube to adjust bias, otherwise, there is nothing you can do other than changing out the bias resistor. Does the instruction tell you what is the correct value, if not you are SOL. You can buy bias tools off eBay that insert between the amp and tube to read the bias, but w/o a trim pot and knowing the correct value they are of little use, except to verify they are of the same value and thus probably OK.
No info in instructions provided. Thanks for the info! Very helpful
I run one of my low power tube amps with a smallish sub which has high level (speaker) inputs and just couple the amp speaker outputs & sub inputs. Don't lose much tube amp power and get all that easy bass!
Excellent idea. Thank you for sharing!
There is no tube power loss in that configuration
@@hrvojekant9415 There is some loss from the tube amp to power the sub, but it's small.
@@Nirky It is quite negligible ...in my case 8/2000 ... ie. ratio between 8Ω impedance of speakers and imput impedance of subwoofer ... wich is 2kΩ
When I got my Heresy IV’s the world of tubes was laid before me. Super fun. I have a vintage flea watt ( 10) amp and got the Willsenton R8 . Yeah sits fun again
Love those IVs and having a lot of fun too! That’s what’s it’s all about!
Yes, a powered subwoofer will work better for you. Let the sub handle everything from 100Hz down.
If your sub has line level inputs , you can connect to tube amp. I have Sunfires hooked to mine and it’s great.
Shopping for one still lol!
Great vid! Subwoofer? = Yes. Monoprice makes some good ones at a cheap price to dip you toes into subwoofers. Even Rockville has some great deals on subs. I have a Decware UFO2 and a Douk tube amp (with similar output wattage).They are very holographic and clean sounding but you really DO need a subwoofer. Have you ever considered open-baffle speakers? Lii makes some really great drivers and Caintuck audio has open-baffles that are like pieces of art. ....but they are not cheap. I think that tube amps sound the best with open-baffle speakers and those types of speakers are super efficient and can change the way you listen to your music. Keep up the great work!
I’m definitely shopping for a sub. Open baffle yes but need to save up some funds
For headphones a 45set is heaven. For speakers 300b set or to just power anything ST70. However the new Vincent integrated tube hybrid is so amazing.
I need to check out that Vincent! Thank you
I don't know if it's anybody said this in the comments but the big problem with Chinese tube apps is cheap lightweight iron. For obvious reasons, it's all down to shipping costs. You can't get good bass from undersized output Transformers.
Agreed - this one has a pretty beefy one though! Thanks for watching!
@@ForeverAnalog Sure maybe for China standards but just not beefy enough. For instance if you were to get a single ended transformer from Hammond it would weigh in at 23 pounds for one.
Every fostex driver Sounds fantastic with a low watt amp. And dude that for a Price this is so redicolus
Awesome. Thanks for watching!
Hi! Thanks for this neat find! I've recently stumbled into tube hybrid systems, one with an Unico Primo integrated, and another with Schiit Freya N with Denafrips Hyperion amp, both of which take to tube rolling nicely. I used to be a straight up solid state guy with Rotel integrateds, or other similar amps. Of course, speakers matter too. Anyway, do you know if this Miaolai is single ended or push-pull? Couldn't figure it out from the seller page.
I couldn’t figure it out either! I’ll ask them and see if I can get an answer. Thank you for watching! Your gear set up sounds amazing
@@ForeverAnalog tube amps no bass.. LOL
first off loving all your content!2 awsome stands for the herresy 1.5s.3 is that vincent phono stage? i debated the vincent s v 500 for way too long before pulling the trigger on emotiva p t 2 and a2 amp. still kinda lusting for vincent but its hard to find many reviews that might be called unbiased. but the tube pre amp on the sv 500 intriges me. do you know anything about that integrated. one big reason i got zu dw 2s is the sensitivety with an eye on someday buying also a low powerd tube amp. funny but im doing thebook thing under my herresy 2s now thanks for the tip! until i figure out proper placement i my room. i do have the original stands but big hassels while trying to figure out my room.thanks man!
Thank you. Yes it’s the Vincent phono preamp. I reviewed it here last year as well. It’s the only Vincent gear I’ve used so far. Thanks for watching!
nothing funny at all! other than a spy baloon droping of the amp.
A cheap amp may have "cathode" auto biasing - which is not "real" auto biasing - used on many guitar tube amps.
Great video. I have a question for the audience if that's ok. I recently picked up a 1968 Heathkit AA-32 tube amp rated at 8w/ch. I just happened to own 2 pairs of awesome Sound Dynamics 10s speakers. These are Canadian made from the late '80s and have a 10" woofer, and a horn-loaded tweeter. They were rated at 100dB /w/m sensitivity. I connected a pair to the AA-32 amp and was amazed. I found I had adequate volume and bass. But wanting even more out of the speakers without clipping the amp, my question for the audience is: can an integrated tube amp be used as a pre-amp if it does not have pre-amp outputs? So far I've read that you may be able to connect a line-out converter such as the Kicker KISLOC2 to reduce the speaker-out levels to line levels. Will this work? Thanks
Thank you for the compliment. Hope someone can answer your question. Thanks for watching!
I would think it would auto biase. It would be to expensive to use trim pots.
MOSFET amps are a better choice and you don’t have to mess with them. Low power amps are higher in distortion. All types of distortion THD, IM and TIM. Try a Hafler or Adcom with 100W per channel or more. Nothing wrong with the McIntosh except for the output transformer. But those never break down.
Awesome thank you!
I used for 20 years highly recognized 90W/ch Onkyo haveng excellent TIM,. THD and IM data but couldn't find it perfect. Then I replaced it with smaller 50 W/ch Luxman, better only , later with even less tube 17W/ch Pioneer yea, better, , later with 15 Watt tube Bell - that is in some way perfect. but I was still looking for "something" At last I build my own 2 Watt per channel and guess? With widerange compact size speakers I will never go back to any from past.
ONE QUESTION ......Just ordered the amp today 371.00 Can. Funds. Now, I've own 6-7 tubes amps. I will never turn on a tube amp before any speakers connected to the amp. Now If you use headphones.... Can you turn on the amp without speakers connected on the back ???
I don’t see why not. I don’t have the unit with me to test
Normaly , NEVER turn on a tube amp without speakers connected to the amp. This is a headphone tube amp , maybe it is ok . If you did it without damage , it means it is OK . But normally , don't to it. I've own many tube amp. Now I just have my Quickslivers Mono V4 , Fluxion B 2a and my Dynaco St 70 modified. @@ForeverAnalog
Normaly, if you don't connect speakers, then the transformer can not reflect a load and the tubes will only see the wire in the transformer and a big coil as a load. This is basically shorting the tubes to the high voltage and it will cause damage to the amplifier eventually. ( google )
Has anyone tried a tube amp with my 89db Boston Acoustic A100s?
This looks like a single ended Class A tube amp.....so it's likely to be cathode biased, which means (roughly) no adjustment is needed
Also $300ish is very cheap for a tube amp....I suspect a mod would boost the bass.
Yes you will eventually need to bias as the power supply breaks in.
I will not agree with opinion that "solid state provides with deep bass and tube amplifier cannot." Tube amplifier should and can peform to lowest range But It is the case of additional work out/ circuitry which nowadays is not provided . Due to tube amplifier construction and speaker cabinet issues they outperform lowest bass with higher bass range 400- 1000 Hz. Reason of it is very complicated and has a lot to do with speakers They call it "warm" sounding and it overlays existing good low bass.
To solve it is only one way- to compensate that issue (for example) with adequate to used speakers and volume loudness correction.I developed additionaly to that more sophisticated circuitry which cannot be enough easy for everyone replicated. Bass may be excellent down to 25 Hz - of course with such bass we cannot expect that 2 Watt power will alow to shake walls but linear loudness up to say 75-80 dB is mantaiined Adding subwoofer will add bass but spoil sound even more.
Solid state has uncontrolled lowest range which is often complained. Unfortunately no much is possible to do - high damping factor is not effective. I purchased very aclaimed amplifier with high damping factor and always felt lack of low range controll. The only way is to align speakers construction as much as possible but be aware that any change in speaker construction changes also amplifier response so it is like lucky draw.
Thank you!
Won't bother watching this video. Everybody is a RUclips expert these days.
Let me know when you start your channel!
Hahahahaha you don't Bias a Cathode amp
Too many words
That’s what my wife says too, Tony