hi, i would like to point out some inaccuracies.... 1 : your " amplifier" has little to do with a tube amplifier since it uses vacuum tubes only as signal buffers, everything coming out of that box is transistor generated. 2 : a true vacuum tube amplifier uses "final" driver tubes to generate the power to drive a speaker, but since they require high voltage as part of their working characteristics they have ust a high impedance output. this impedance is matched with an iron core transformers ( with some special characteristics to improve audio performance ) so in your amplifier you are bypassing about 3/4 of what a tube amplifier really is. 3 : the tube curves are less linear than transistor ones, but you are actually looking at the wrong graph to determinate linearity, audio specific vacuum tubes ( there are RF, IF, oscillator, mixer ecc.... specific tubes) have a grid voltage - plate current graph, si you see the variation of plate current versus grid voltage; this really shows linearity ( remember that tubes are transimpedance amplifier basically ) i also would like to propose an objective osservation, the audio quality can be strumentally measured with audio distorsimeters of fft analyzers ( or a scope fft ) as well as a frequency sweep, if you take a look at some videos by "ElPaso TubeAmps" channel you would see how a real tube amplifier is built and fully tested, a good tube amplifiers does not show distortion of any kind basically, you can achieve even 0.1% total distortion which is a remarkable result. i do not want to be polemic, i just want to point out some inaccuracies :) hope you reed this comment!
Yeah, i only have a high level understanding of tube amps, but every cheap circuit is still 80% silicon, the tube does nearly nothing. The parts that make a tube amp a tube amp are bulky and heavy, and pretty dangerous too. Like 400- 600v.
the problem with using tubes as final drive tubes is that it adds a ton of aliniarity the mentioned iron core transformer features a alinerar iron core which is a source of distortion add to that that those systems are rather inefficient and that they are only realy usefull for low powers and you have quite a lot of problems. also 0.1%thd is basicaly nothing in the world of silicon amps they usually run with a ton less untill they get out if their linear region. not saying that tube amps have to place to be quite the opposite if you find that mix of distortion pleasing to hear thats a great option for you same with guitar amps where that distortion makes a guitar spring to life. but just as a amplifier that has to create the most linear and accurate results tubes are not your friend
Tube sound superiority in hifi amplifiers is still a very contentious debate. There are many who believe that the amount of distortion is less important than the harmonic content of the distortion. The typical argument is that a strong 2nd harmonic is a pleasing "musical" distortion and tubes tend to distort in that way. It's a fine argument for guitar amps, but it kind of falls apart for audio amplifiers. Music usually contains complex a mix of frequencies and while a 2nd order harmonic might sound nice applied to a single note, with many simultaneous notes the resulting distortion products interact with each other in a very non-musical way creating a whole bunch of new frequencies not in the original piece of music. The result is a loss of definition of each individual instrument and a more noisy, veiled sound.
Wait!! Let me get to the point. So her 80$ audio vacum tube are trash product that scam innocent peoples to buy it because humor about tube sounds quality? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤭🤭🤭🤭
As a tube amp designer, I would like to add on to your theory at the end as you were quite close to hitting the nail on the head. You will notice the curves for the tube not being evenly spaced unlike the transistor in which causes even order harmonics to be generated as opposed to the transistor in which (especially when driven into clipping) generates predominantly odd order harmonics (which sound terrible as they are not musically related notes). The dominant even order harmonic with a triode tube is the 2nd, being the octave. This brings rise to huge popularity using triodes as distortion generators for musical instrument circuits as all distortion generated is musically related to the fundamental frequency and although does contain odd order harmonics, all harmonics after the 2nd decay in even amounts from one another which has the result of the triode distortion not containing too much high frequency fizz! I'd recommend googling the harmonic distribution chart of a triode. Most electronics channels of course always talk about hi-fi use when it comes to audio circuits but forget that there is a whole other world out there in which distortion is wanted- but you are right in saying that there is a taste for tubes in hi-fi. As I said with the distortion being musically relevent, it can have a nice tone to it. I built my first vacuum tube hi-fi amplifier when I was 18 and I still use it to this day!
I don't think it is that, but it's easy to find out, i suggest you get a spectrum analyzer and check the output of the Valve amp, i was thinking in do that, but I don't have the time. As a tube amp designer I think this will be great to do such a test, who knows put to a end to this discussion and legend :)
"Musicality" is a by product of distortion. Choosing the type of distortion, and it's amount of influence is the really difficult part of audio design.
Scott was looking at the wrong curves if he wanted to compare tubes with transistors. The curve that really gives the information is the one that relates input voltage to output current. For a tube, the current out is approximately proportional to the square of the voltage in. When the input receives a sine wave of a particular frequency, the output current will mainly be a sinewave of the same frequency plus a lower amplitude sinewave at twice the frequency. That's second harmonic distortion and, for some reason, our hearing perceives that as a pleasant sound. There will usually be small amounts of fourth harmonic distortion and higher, but still nothing we tend to find unpleasant. For a bipolar transistor, the current out is approximately proportional to an exponential function of the voltage in. When the input receives a sine wave of a particular frequency, the output current will mainly be a sinewave of the same frequency plus lower amplitude sinewaves at twice, three times, four times, etc. the frequency. That's still harmonic distortion, but our hearing generally perceives third order harmonics as unpleasant, and the same seems to be true for all odd order harmonics. Nevertheless, well-designed amplifier circuits incorporate generous amounts of negative feedback, which will reduce distortion (particularly in transistor amps) to levels that are virtually unmeasurable against the background noise. It is very difficult to believe that anybody could distinguish the difference between an output signal from a tube amp and that of a transistor amp if sufficiently high levels of negative feedback were present to ensure that the output was a faithful reproduction of the input signal. Oddly enough, field effect transistors have just the same sort of transfer characteristics as triode amplifiers, but we don't see audio enthusiasts complimenting the sound of jfet or mosfet amps. One of the other differences between solid state and tube amplifiers is that solid state clips signals quite abruptly when overdriven, which effectively turns a sine wave into a square wave, A square wave is equivalent to a sine wave plus its third, fifth, seventh, etc. harmonics, which are just the ones that we find unpleasant. Tube amps clip much more progressively, adding extra harmonics gradually as they begin to be overdriven, so that may account for the different "sound" of the distortion found under overloading conditions. Finally, the much higher voltages found in tube design allows more overhead before the output starts to stray from linearity, and the higher voltages and higher impedances of tube amps often require output transformers in order to match low impedance loads such as loudspeakers. Those transformers often restrict the frequency response and can introduce other nonlinearities into the amplification chain, and may themselves be significant contributors to the "valve sound".
@@greatscottlab your intelligence is the what help me make 50% of my tools, I am a student I can't afford to buy then so thank you for intelligence, I used to live in dueschland and y'all are amazing keep being creative!😸👍
A well designed and built integrated tube amp (for hi fi ) will sound good if it's internal components are high end, if it's preamp and power tubes (and there are many brands and types) are compatible with each other, and if the amp has a good source like a great cd player and great speakers. there are so many things one has to go through to find the right equipment to form one great stereo system.
As mentioned below, an amp is not a tube amp because it has one single tube in it. Building a tube amp from scratch is a tedious task involving much planning, calculating and reading datasheets, while dealing with lethal voltages. I built a lot of real tube amps and i repair and service them regularly. Tube amps are fascinating and great fun and every visitor to my house likes the sound of my stereo or guitar amps.
We asked espechally in your "electrically generated music" Video, because overdriven tube amps are used for the typical rock and metal sound. So a lot of musicians use Tube Amps for their sound.
I'd like to see you do an AC sweep for audio frequencies and do a Fourier analysis to see if the difference in sound quality has anything to do with the frequency response of the two amplifiers. Maybe even create bode plots for them and compare.
@@5d51e2gyU6JD All circuits are nonlinear outside of their frequency response. An AC sweep would be accurate and useful over the range of human hearing
I had a grandfather who worked with TVs based on tubes, back in the old days.. He loved when transistors went to market, as they get rid of many problems tubes had: high voltage, excess heat, fragility... Anyway, nice videos! Keep on with such great content.
I totally agree with your grandfather. In the 70s into 80s I earned most of the money to finance university by repairing all kinds of common tube devices (TVs, radios, PA-, Guitar & Bass-Amps). They always had to be repaired, esp. the TVs, because of damaged transformers, tubes and capacitors (because of the high voltages of about 300-500V, up to 25.000 in TVs), exhausted tubes (burnout), etc. Switching to transistors and thyristors changed everything later. Today from time to time I still restore some old guitar- or bassamps (at the moment a 'HiFi Binson 40WB' Guitar-Amp and 'Echolette BS40' bass amp both from the early sixties )
Posted 2 mins ago and already 27 comments and 200 views. You have an ACTIVE community! On a side note, BUILD IDEA: automated aquarium ecosystem w/ sensors
I've built several guitar amplifiers around the concept of using a tube(s) for preamplification and a Class-D power amplifier module. I'm an old guy and don't want to carry around heavy things (used to have a Vox AC100 amp back in the '60s that probably weighted 200 lbs altogether and don't want to do that again). My rationale was to get "tube" type distortion out of the tube followed by clean amplification with the Class-D amplifier. IOW, if I drive a 100 watt amp to 20 watts the output should be a fairly good copy of the input. I realize that I'm not getting the full distortion that I would get with an all-tube amp (power supply sag, output transformer saturation, non linearity in the finals, ...), however, I hope to get most of the way there with a much lighter package. I've been very happy with the results. My understanding is that tubes give you more even order harmonic distortion and transistors give you odd order harmonic distortion. The reason for this is that a transistor will clip at both the positive and negative power supply rails when overdriven, IOW a turn a sine wave into a square wave, which is comprised of odd order harmonics. A tube, OTOH, can do a hard clip going to the positive power supply rail, but doesn't clip nearly as hard going to the negative (ground) power supply rail because the tube gain drops as the plate voltage drops, softening the clipping. This results in more even order harmonics.
You have described why tube amps are popular with guitarists - overdriving a tube amp creates much more "pleasant" distortion than a solid state device, rumors have it because of the addition of even as opposed to odd harmonics, something you could easily verify, or not. Great episode!
Having owned a tube radio (1950's RCA Victor), it really is night and day between tube and transistor/ic. Listening to the audio as it faded in was something too, unless the tubes were warmed up already.
So true, I'll have made my system all tubes pre amp phono and power amps. I never go back to transistors. Only half conducters I have got is my cd player ( modified teac vrds10se) and dac. If you build it right without any compromise it will preform very well. I better listen to even harmonics from tubes then the distortion from a Class D transistor amp. Cheers
As a little tidbit - Part of the distortion characteristic of tubeamps is that instead of clipping, they tend to compress the signal instead. This gives a much more tolerable sound when you begin to get any distortion, and can squash some of the highs downwards, giving that 'warm' sound.
I've been watching you for almost 6 years, and you're the best electronics teacher I've had. Your videos never fail to teach me something new, keep up the great work!
I've never used a vacuum tube before, but I do love the way they have such a vintage look with that orange glow. As long as they don't put a disgusting blue LED underneath it.
No it can't. You can sort of approximate tube sound in software (or DSP) over an extremely low distortion SS amp, but even the best algorithms aren't all that good at reproducing the effect of tubes. They are still the best at what they do. Moreover the low pass filter is kind of a cliché; a proper tube design won't significantly roll off the treble (although some will do it on purpose because some like the sound). And that particular roll off comes from the output transformer, not the tube. Remember tubes can easily handle RF range, so audio frequencies aren't much of a challenge. In a preamp buffer like this cheap device, there won't be any roll off.
Not really. The roll-off comes from the OPT which isn't there in a pre-amp. Besides that, it's not about "recreating the sound" (the sound is far more influenced by the speakers than the amp btw, unless we're talking about overdriven instruments), it's about building/owning the real thing. I'm pretty sure you can modify a Prius to behave exactly like a Cadillac, even make the inside look like one with VR glasses, but is it a Cadillac? *NO.*
Jonathan Brouillet If FR looks like a tube, if slew rates are the same, if speakers are connected identically, any other type of amplifier will sound exactly like tube driven. This is physics. Everything else is subjective, personal, placebo.
@@jonathanvanier what the hell are you even talk about? You should run along and let the adults in the room talk electronics. Typical "audiophile" responses, zero EE knowledge.
I'm an electronic engineer, after many years of trying to find the explanation to why the people say that a tube amplifier is better than others, measuring all possible values and being the more objective possible. I realise that all this things doesn't matter. When you hear a tube amplifier you will never come back, is a one way path. And is not suggestive, put 10 guys in a room and do a blind test, with your best transistor amplifier (McInt for exple) and a tube amplifier (made in house) you will be surprised.
I've used to play guitar as my hobby for the past eight years. I'm really happy for this video and thanks a lot for you hard work and dedication. Looking forward for the upcoming videos.
@@trevorhaddox6884 eh hmm... yes i know but everyone learns throughout their lives (including me) and I mentioned "good video about vacuum tubes" because he tried and showed up what he does wrong. For a beginner video is not as bad, he showed how triode works, and basic schematic of triode amplifier.
Soldering to all-glass tubes with pins is a big no-no, as they are likely to crack because of the pin thermal expansion. Sometimes the pins can also break off instead. You can get subminiature tubes that have solderable leads, but even then there is a minimum distance from the envelope specified.
A cheap Amazon hybrid is certainly not a decent evaluation of the sonic advantages of tubes over transistors. But, building real vacuum tube amplifiers involves skills and precautions beyond the scope of this channel. There are plenty of resources on the internet where would-be DIY tube enthusiasts can become dangerous enough to kill themselves. Having said that, beware of audio equipment reviews that sound like wine tastings. “Spacious”, Warm”, “Pairs well with jazz” Love your channel!
The other component that you must factor into tube amps is the output transformer. OTs saturate and alter the shape of the signal, so even a linear input through an OT will have a “valve amp” response. Transistor amplifiers with interstage transformers have the same audio pleasantries that valve amps do. For example the PigNose and Baldwin-Burns amps sound like valve amps but are all transistor with interstage transformers.
I remember when I was a kid going to the store and testing vacuum tubes.. all the stores had vacuum tube testers.. it was a draw so you might buy other products while you were there
Linearity can be deducted by looking at the characteristic curves of an amplifying device not from the literal straightness of the lines (which has little to do with this) but by how constant the spacing between them is. With transistors, the distance between the top two lines is pretty much the same as the distance between the two bottom ones. With triodes, the right-most lines are much closer together than the left-most lines, it is that change in spacing what deforms the signal and adds extra frequencies that were not in the original input signal, not the actual curvature of each individual line ;)
Dear Scott the Great. Electronics is my hobby since a few years. I watch all your videos and I learned so much that I wasn't aware of therefore thank you. And I hope you keep going teaching us
Agree with most of presented about sound and distortion of tube and transistor amplifiers. As I remember from my university time, in general tube amps produce about 10 times more distortion than transistor amp. Main difference is that tube amps produce "even" harmonics that sound more harmonic or musical to our ear and this is main reason why it sounds worm and pleasant.
Tube amps make most sense in the electric guitar amplification, where the tube overdrive is highly desired. Also the voltage for rich sounding amps may be up to 450 volts. And also the great influence on the sound is made by output transformers. And yes - digital anode voltage regulators are very noisy and should be tailor made specially for tube amplification
Yup, output transformers are a big part of the sound signature of a tube amp. That's why, say, McIntosh uses output transformers even on their SS designs. And that's why a proper tube amp (or a proper tube preamp) would have been a much better choice than a "cheap opamp and Class-D module with a tube buffer" for this video...
They're still popular in guitar amps mainly due to their overdrive characteristics. They can produce a really soft, mellow type of distortion which an overdriven transistor simply cannot create on its own. Synthetic valve distortion is achievable through some sophisticated electronics (as long as the transistors are kept out of overdrive) but that'll never be enough for a purist
This is a well constructed and presented argument that sounds logical. I don't have a counter argument, but I do have a tube pre-amp & power-amp combination that makes the music that I love sound absolutely stunning! There's a reason why audiophiles are prepared to pay the premium prices charged for high-end tube amps...because they've heard them. Cheap tube amps will probably sound worse than solid state amps of the same price because mass produced solid state manufacturing is cheaper, so I'd suggest that each technology is 'better' in it's specific niche. How lucky are we to have the choice! :)
Mr. Scott, the output signal of the 6J4 triode (at 8:14) was so ugly because of improper biasing. The grid does not require the 50V nor the 100k resistors. Maybe you should consider using just a 1 megohm resistor between grid an cathode and perhaps your power supply was not faulty. Your 6J4 valve was operating in saturation region, so you found almost no output swing!
Or they don't and use big honking transmitter tubes that draw ridiculous filament current/banks of normal output tubes in parallel. It's called output transformerless or OTL.
Vacuum tubes do not necessarily reproduce cleaner audio, however due to the frequency response characteristics, and the characteristics of the way they clip when over driven, they produce a unique sound that is pleasant to the ears of many. Though there is some credibility to most tube amps running class A or class AB bias to truer more linear response and less distortion as opposed to class D. Keep in mind there is a lot of inductance and iron in a tube amp in the output transformers and interstage transformers that also affect the frequency response and saturation characteristics. Its not "cleaner" audio, but it is different, and quite nice to listen to. Every amplifier, period, alters the characteristics of the signal to some extent.
While there maybe the negligible difference in sound and tubes are energy hogs, tubes still outclass transistors for the true audiophile. Love that you showed (measured) the input/output of each circuit. Good video. 👍
are you serious?🤣tube amplifiers are much worse than transistor ones. you can find measurements of their parameters on audiosciencereview for example. measurement of noise, distortions, channels separation of tube amplifier are the worst of all other amplifiers
You must be an expert , no doubt about that ......Peter Quortrup would like to have a conversation with you ....he will be happy to learn from you .@@user-qi1cs3zg3n
@@user-qi1cs3zg3n there are 2 types of audiophiles, those that spend their time looking into measurements and parameters, and those that actually listen to music. I'll let you figure out which type is the true audiophile Andrew is referring to.
@@jonsnow7092 The main problem is that hearing differs from person to person. Trusting the ears of a stranger when choosing something is not very smart. This parameter is very subjective. In a blind test, "listening" audiophiles are unable to distinguish one amplifier from another. Measurements and parameters are much more objective. Manipulations about “two types” and that “those who look at the parameters do not listen to music” do not work for those people who love the scientific approach and critical thinking
I started building tube amps 40 years ago as parts from old radios were freely available. The quality of the available capacitors and transformers was not that great. I am currently still playing with tube amps and much better quality parts are now available. I like tube amps as they are (in principle) very simple compared to solid state amps. They do provide very high quality audio. Main disadvantage is the low efficiency.
You know....I want to thank you for your videos. I have wanted to do many projects and lacked confidence to get started on them. Your presentations have given me a greater understanding of process and method allowing me to do things I have put off for years. Thank You
Audio knob here... So yes you explained it right. Vacuum tubes have a non linear amplifying curve and such distort the signal a bit. In the music world, thats called "saturation" many people nowdays add this purposely onto their music to add this warmth and natural feeling because properly amplified and made music lacks that saturated feel. Most of the time the saturation acts more in the lower frequencies which makes the sound more bassy and such feel warmer. Great video, and you can do more stuff with tubes, its very interesting. At the moment i am trying to build a whole simple computer out of tubes.
The key to the "natural" sound of a tube amp or preamp is not simply the distortion. It is also the TYPE of distortion. In the natural world, there are very few things, if any, that create a pure tone. There is also some distortion, in the form of harmonics, whether it is a bell, a trumpet, a voice, etc. Importantly, these harmonics are on the even multiples of the original tone, and roll off naturally the higher the multiple of the original tone. THIS is what our ears are used to hearing every day of our lives. Tubes DO introduce even-ordered harmonics (2, 4,.etc.). Transistors, when distortion is present, particularly in the early days of transistor technology, is odd-ordered (3, 5, 7, etc.). So with transistors, either the natural even-ordered harmonics are suppressed entirely, or odd-ordered, which sounds harsh and brittle to our ears. That is why you don't have to push a tube amp or preamp into what would typically be distortion levels to notice its benefits. This is why the term "natural" is a good one. Tubes recreate sound that is similar to our real world experience, distortion and all. In contrast, transistors sound "dry", "lifeless", or even harsh - before even reaching levels of distortion.
Welcome to the world of hi-fi snobbery. ;) Tube amplifiers are exactly the way you describe: They have a "warm" distortion that many people, especially those who grew up with that kind of sound, really like. Many of those people would describe transistor amplifiers as "clinical" sounding. But objectively, that is exactly what an amplifier SHOULD be. The purpose of a good amplifier is to amplify a signal without altering it in any other way. Of course, it's entirely okay to enjoy the tube type sound, but it's objectively an inferior way of amplifying a signal. I'm of the opinion that tube amplifiers are perfectly fine for use in guitar amplifiers and such things. Anything you introduce before the recording studio, is part of the instrument so to speak. But once you've recorded the piece of music, the ideal is for the listener to hear exactly the same performance that was recorded in the studio.
That is a hybrid amplifier, not a "true" tube amplifer. It has a tube in the pre-amp stage and a solid state power amp. Really the only differences from your typical transistor amplifier is that the tubes create a more pleasant harmonic response and "clips" naturally when driven.
Hello Scott, good job! I admire you because of the time you dedicate on each video, providing detailed explanations on everything you think and do with the merely purpose of making everyone understand. Greetings from Buenos Aires, Argentina!
I like your approach to the topic. You cover both sides, the feelings of the consumer, and what happens to the frequencies on the physical level. And I like how you state, that some people love that particular tube sound, but still this simply doesn't apply so much for you. Audio tube amplification is a strongly debated field, and you manage very well to state your observations and opinion without being too harsh towards other opinions.
Id like to see you try DCC control. Its mainly sold for model trains to have multiple trains on the same track but controlled with signals sent through the two rails(if im understanding it correctly). At least one guy built an arduino library for it but it still requires quite a bit of electronics.
I grew up on vinyl - i have a tube preamp for my turntable going into a bugara tube amplifier ! i like it - its warm natural and what you here is basically how it was recorded in the studio ! I thought i was 1 of only a few !
This is NOT and I repeat NOT a true representation of a classic tube audio amplifier. A true tube ausio amp has no solid state parts in it anywhere . It will be all resistors and capacitors. It will have a high voltage transformer called a plate transformer That will step up the voltage from 110vac to around 500vdc. The preamp tubes will usually be a 12AX7 and the finals are usually a pair of 6L6GC or something similar. Aslo you have to have an output transformer. Which will couple the plates of the output finals and the output of the output transformer would be either 4,8, or 16 ohms connected directly to speakers. And since we mentioned speakers you cant just use modern day speakers made for Transistor amps they need to be paper cone speakers
I like the audio related stuff! Tubes in the preamp do provide a softer clipping, but that's only part of tube amp. The prized dynamic and complex tube amp eq comes from the impedances in a tube driven power section. Also, an interesting way to visualize audio characteristics of a certain circuit is to run pink noise thru it into a frequency analyzer.
As always, great video! And although I am not that much into tubes, it still was very interesting! Keep up the great work! I (personally) would wish that there were some more tutorials on how to use the ESP32 properly, with all its bells and whistles
one of the things I always do when I watch people on youtube is check the comments section to make sure that they've replied to at least 1 or 2 comments; I can't stand the youtubers who ask for likes/comments and don't even bother to read a few of them. so congrats for being a good youtuber.
This reminded me... Can you please do noise cancelling? I remember learning about the noise cancelling circuit in college but would love to see your take. Maybe a DIY or BUY?
As an audiophile, i can assure you the quantity of output transformer and coupling transformer/capacitor of a tube amplifiers is also a very important factor of reproducing quality sound. Try with better tube such as 300b, 2A3 before given up.
I assume this isn't a triode, but a pentode. The two 100kohm resistors are a voltage divider. The lower resistor should be decoupled. Pentodes need DC on one screen. If the screen is tied to the anode, it operates like a triode. Look at the datasheet of the EF86 pentode. It has application examples. Pdfs are available online. Pretty much the only signal pentode used in audio in the 1950s-60s.
@@grisflyt Exactly. In this way it operates in ultralinear mode, which is a strange choice for a preamp stage. Usually you'd like a nice triode like a 12AX7. Here they probably should just connect the plate to the screen and run it in triode mode; after all, this pretend device is supposed to give you "tube sound" on the cheap. Although with a tube buffer strapped on an opamp with a cheap Class-D module for the output, I'm not sure it's worth the trouble: NOT the recommended way to audition tube sound if you're curious about it!
@@jonathanvanier I doubt that. In ultralinear, you have negative feedback within the transformer. How much is dependent where you tap it, typically 34%, if I remember. This seems to be nothing more than a voltage divider. Since it's important that the screen gets ripple-free DC (ideally low impedance, there should be a capacitor. This amp is just riding on the tube trend. I don't really consider this a tube amp. It may still be a fine amplifier. Today's opamps are very good.
@@grisflyt I went back to the video and I was wrong, the screen/suppressor grid is indeed connected to DC on the circuit and not the plate, so it’s not running in ultralinear. Sorry about that. This begin said, ultralinear really just means that you feed a percentage of the plate’s output to the screen; a simple way to do so is, indeed, to use a tap on the transformer’s primary, but you can do it with a voltage divider just as well. It’s still called operating the tetrode in ultralinear mode. And of course, in a preamp stage you don’t normally have a transformer tap available (or if you use something like global feedback, you’d probably rather do it on the cathode anyway). But you’re right that it’s just a form of feedback. All this being said, I fully agree with you that this device is not a tube amp, in no shape or form.
I had built a vacuum tube amp in 2012. My reference was a book by Dave Hunter Guitar Amp Handbook. To this day it is a very good Functioning amp. It produces about 10 to 12 watts depending what vacuum tubes you use. My total cost was at $500 for all components and enclosure. It was not a difficult amplifier to build with paying close attention to the schematics.
The tube amp may have been negligible in terms of quality, but these videos are top quality (which always brings me back). Your videos are always interesting and cool, and have great delivery and quality. Keep up the great work!
It's not a real tube amp. It is junk as far as saying it's a tube amp. Now if it was just solid state without the tubes then it would be a solid state amp but with these tubes being used the way they are it isn't a proper tube amp.
Just in case you think those tubes are useless in those amplifiers: the Fender Twin Reverb guitar amplifier and the Marshall JCM800 guitar amp are both tube amplifiers AND the most iconic guitar amps of all time. You can hear those amps in music by Red Hot Chili Peppers, Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Eric Clapton, Christone Kingfish Ingram, Gary Moore, Slayer, Nirvana, Guns And Roses and countless bands and artists
Hi Scott, I used to start learning electronics for a long while now, but things get complicated as I dive deeper, after some time I found it difficult to continue to learn, I thought it was to go to university in order to specialize on electronics, but recently I came across your video of Q&A in which you mentioned that *You come from non-electronics background* this one word from your mouth gave me a big inspiration to continue to learn electronics., I thought if Scott without relevant background can be so bright, why can't I..?? 🤔🤔🤔
yeah a comparison would have been great. It's one thing to talk specs and numbers and another to see how they translate into the real world. Its like telling me that a resistor before an LED will reduce brightness and not actually showing me how much it does in real life
One very important quality overlooked here is the slew rate of a transistor vs a VT. At least due to the higher operating voltage, if not the speed of electrons flying from the cathode to the anode (~10% speed of light), tube amps have much faster slew rates. This is really going to stand out with the shape of the transient note attacks, and that's a really key part of the sound that our ears pick up on because it is so frequency rich -- at least that's my understanding of it.
11:40 You cannot look distortion like that! The plate voltage does not change. You should look at grid voltage to anode current. To do this, draw a line from your plate voltage (B+ or HT) on the voltage axis, to the short circuit current on the current axis and see how it crosses the grid voltage lines. Just like designing a BJT amp. Also, the reason you don't need a tube amp is probably the music producers are using tube devices or software models of tubes to record, mix and master the tracks.
hi, i would like to point out some inaccuracies....
1 : your " amplifier" has little to do with a tube amplifier since it uses vacuum tubes only as signal buffers, everything coming out of that box is transistor generated.
2 : a true vacuum tube amplifier uses "final" driver tubes to generate the power to drive a speaker, but since they require high voltage as part of their working characteristics they have ust a high impedance output. this impedance is matched with an iron core transformers ( with some special characteristics to improve audio performance ) so in your amplifier you are bypassing about 3/4 of what a tube amplifier really is.
3 : the tube curves are less linear than transistor ones, but you are actually looking at the wrong graph to determinate linearity, audio specific vacuum tubes ( there are RF, IF, oscillator, mixer ecc.... specific tubes) have a grid voltage - plate current graph, si you see the variation of plate current versus grid voltage; this really shows linearity ( remember that tubes are transimpedance amplifier basically )
i also would like to propose an objective osservation, the audio quality can be strumentally measured with audio distorsimeters of fft analyzers ( or a scope fft ) as well as a frequency sweep, if you take a look at some videos by "ElPaso TubeAmps" channel you would see how a real tube amplifier is built and fully tested, a good tube amplifiers does not show distortion of any kind basically, you can achieve even 0.1% total distortion which is a remarkable result.
i do not want to be polemic, i just want to point out some inaccuracies :)
hope you reed this comment!
Yeah, i only have a high level understanding of tube amps, but every cheap circuit is still 80% silicon, the tube does nearly nothing. The parts that make a tube amp a tube amp are bulky and heavy, and pretty dangerous too. Like 400- 600v.
the problem with using tubes as final drive tubes is that it adds a ton of aliniarity the mentioned iron core transformer features a alinerar iron core which is a source of distortion add to that that those systems are rather inefficient and that they are only realy usefull for low powers and you have quite a lot of problems. also 0.1%thd is basicaly nothing in the world of silicon amps they usually run with a ton less untill they get out if their linear region.
not saying that tube amps have to place to be quite the opposite if you find that mix of distortion pleasing to hear thats a great option for you same with guitar amps where that distortion makes a guitar spring to life.
but just as a amplifier that has to create the most linear and accurate results tubes are not your friend
Tube sound superiority in hifi amplifiers is still a very contentious debate. There are many who believe that the amount of distortion is less important than the harmonic content of the distortion. The typical argument is that a strong 2nd harmonic is a pleasing "musical" distortion and tubes tend to distort in that way. It's a fine argument for guitar amps, but it kind of falls apart for audio amplifiers. Music usually contains complex a mix of frequencies and while a 2nd order harmonic might sound nice applied to a single note, with many simultaneous notes the resulting distortion products interact with each other in a very non-musical way creating a whole bunch of new frequencies not in the original piece of music. The result is a loss of definition of each individual instrument and a more noisy, veiled sound.
This.
Wait!! Let me get to the point.
So her 80$ audio vacum tube are trash product that scam innocent peoples to buy it because humor about tube sounds quality? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤭🤭🤭🤭
As a tube amp designer, I would like to add on to your theory at the end as you were quite close to hitting the nail on the head. You will notice the curves for the tube not being evenly spaced unlike the transistor in which causes even order harmonics to be generated as opposed to the transistor in which (especially when driven into clipping) generates predominantly odd order harmonics (which sound terrible as they are not musically related notes). The dominant even order harmonic with a triode tube is the 2nd, being the octave. This brings rise to huge popularity using triodes as distortion generators for musical instrument circuits as all distortion generated is musically related to the fundamental frequency and although does contain odd order harmonics, all harmonics after the 2nd decay in even amounts from one another which has the result of the triode distortion not containing too much high frequency fizz! I'd recommend googling the harmonic distribution chart of a triode.
Most electronics channels of course always talk about hi-fi use when it comes to audio circuits but forget that there is a whole other world out there in which distortion is wanted- but you are right in saying that there is a taste for tubes in hi-fi. As I said with the distortion being musically relevent, it can have a nice tone to it. I built my first vacuum tube hi-fi amplifier when I was 18 and I still use it to this day!
I don't think it is that, but it's easy to find out, i suggest you get a spectrum analyzer and check the output of the Valve amp, i was thinking in do that, but I don't have the time. As a tube amp designer I think this will be great to do such a test, who knows put to a end to this discussion and legend :)
@@luigicfilho Many have done such a test and verified exactly what Liam wrote. ruclips.net/video/UcNKGagfMyg/видео.html
Electrons move more freely in a vacuum!!!
"Musicality" is a by product of distortion. Choosing the type of distortion, and it's amount of influence is the really difficult part of audio design.
Scott was looking at the wrong curves if he wanted to compare tubes with transistors. The curve that really gives the information is the one that relates input voltage to output current.
For a tube, the current out is approximately proportional to the square of the voltage in. When the input receives a sine wave of a particular frequency, the output current will mainly be a sinewave of the same frequency plus a lower amplitude sinewave at twice the frequency. That's second harmonic distortion and, for some reason, our hearing perceives that as a pleasant sound. There will usually be small amounts of fourth harmonic distortion and higher, but still nothing we tend to find unpleasant.
For a bipolar transistor, the current out is approximately proportional to an exponential function of the voltage in. When the input receives a sine wave of a particular frequency, the output current will mainly be a sinewave of the same frequency plus lower amplitude sinewaves at twice, three times, four times, etc. the frequency. That's still harmonic distortion, but our hearing generally perceives third order harmonics as unpleasant, and the same seems to be true for all odd order harmonics.
Nevertheless, well-designed amplifier circuits incorporate generous amounts of negative feedback, which will reduce distortion (particularly in transistor amps) to levels that are virtually unmeasurable against the background noise. It is very difficult to believe that anybody could distinguish the difference between an output signal from a tube amp and that of a transistor amp if sufficiently high levels of negative feedback were present to ensure that the output was a faithful reproduction of the input signal.
Oddly enough, field effect transistors have just the same sort of transfer characteristics as triode amplifiers, but we don't see audio enthusiasts complimenting the sound of jfet or mosfet amps.
One of the other differences between solid state and tube amplifiers is that solid state clips signals quite abruptly when overdriven, which effectively turns a sine wave into a square wave, A square wave is equivalent to a sine wave plus its third, fifth, seventh, etc. harmonics, which are just the ones that we find unpleasant. Tube amps clip much more progressively, adding extra harmonics gradually as they begin to be overdriven, so that may account for the different "sound" of the distortion found under overloading conditions.
Finally, the much higher voltages found in tube design allows more overhead before the output starts to stray from linearity, and the higher voltages and higher impedances of tube amps often require output transformers in order to match low impedance loads such as loudspeakers. Those transformers often restrict the frequency response and can introduce other nonlinearities into the amplification chain, and may themselves be significant contributors to the "valve sound".
I wouldn’t be years deep into my electronics addiction if it weren’t for GreatScott! Keep up the amazing work!
-Greetings from Texas! 🤘🏼🤘🏼
Well, he meant well !
Thanks😁
Same here!
@@greatscottlab your intelligence is the what help me make 50% of my tools, I am a student I can't afford to buy then so thank you for intelligence, I used to live in dueschland and y'all are amazing keep being creative!😸👍
I might have caught the tingle of it being a newbie electrical engineering student
A well designed and built integrated tube amp (for hi fi ) will sound good if it's internal components are high end, if it's preamp and power tubes (and there are many brands and types) are compatible with each other, and if the amp has a good source like a great cd player and great speakers. there are so many things one has to go through to find the right equipment to form one great stereo system.
They don't want to hear that.
They're missing out a lot. Well, maybe not much if they listen to synthetic music.
As mentioned below, an amp is not a tube amp because it has one single tube in it. Building a tube amp from scratch is a tedious task involving much planning, calculating and reading datasheets, while dealing with lethal voltages. I built a lot of real tube amps and i repair and service them regularly. Tube amps are fascinating and great fun and every visitor to my house likes the sound of my stereo or guitar amps.
How about a diy oscilloscope?
That'd be sick
It is on my to do list
Heck yeah dit or buy !
I can make it. Just using my phone
Can't wait :)
So, read this from Brazil: we love you and your work! Keep going, there is only success in your Future!
Opa
@@sdffsdafdsfsdfsd only you people don't care but others do
Agreed
@@sdffsdafdsfsdfsd TRU LUL
We asked espechally in your "electrically generated music" Video, because overdriven tube amps are used for the typical rock and metal sound.
So a lot of musicians use Tube Amps for their sound.
Indeed, tubes handle clipping more "gracefully" than SS, and are therefore still in great demand for guitar amps.
I'd like to see you do an AC sweep for audio frequencies and do a Fourier analysis to see if the difference in sound quality has anything to do with the frequency response of the two amplifiers. Maybe even create bode plots for them and compare.
tube amps are nonlinear circuits so an ac sweep wouldn't be very accurate
@@5d51e2gyU6JD All circuits are nonlinear outside of their frequency response. An AC sweep would be accurate and useful over the range of human hearing
@@liam1253 tube circuits are highly nonlinear in the human hearing range as well
@@5d51e2gyU6JD and how do you determine the range for which an amplifier is nonlinear? With an AC frequency sweep. You have a circular argument
The way the camera focused perfectly on the "Hi there" made me smile
Yeah
I think greatScott needs to have a chat with Mr. Carlson.
I'm surprised at the number of Mr. Carlson fans there are here.
Now that guy knows EVERYTHING and can fix EVERYTHING, much respect.
@@JohnnyClavin Much more than you think
Bet their wives/gf's will not approve hehehehe
Yes
I had a grandfather who worked with TVs based on tubes, back in the old days.. He loved when transistors went to market, as they get rid of many problems tubes had: high voltage, excess heat, fragility... Anyway, nice videos! Keep on with such great content.
I totally agree with your grandfather. In the 70s into 80s I earned most of the money to finance university by repairing all kinds of common tube devices (TVs, radios, PA-, Guitar & Bass-Amps). They always had to be repaired, esp. the TVs, because of damaged transformers, tubes and capacitors (because of the high voltages of about 300-500V, up to 25.000 in TVs), exhausted tubes (burnout), etc.
Switching to transistors and thyristors changed everything later.
Today from time to time I still restore some old guitar- or bassamps (at the moment a 'HiFi Binson 40WB' Guitar-Amp and 'Echolette BS40' bass amp both from the early sixties )
Posted 2 mins ago and already 27 comments and 200 views. You have an ACTIVE community! On a side note, BUILD IDEA: automated aquarium ecosystem w/ sensors
I can put it on my to do list :-)
Yes please
I Gonna wait for it AHHAHAHAH
Yes please
I've built several guitar amplifiers around the concept of using a tube(s) for preamplification and a Class-D power amplifier module. I'm an old guy and don't want to carry around heavy things (used to have a Vox AC100 amp back in the '60s that probably weighted 200 lbs altogether and don't want to do that again). My rationale was to get "tube" type distortion out of the tube followed by clean amplification with the Class-D amplifier. IOW, if I drive a 100 watt amp to 20 watts the output should be a fairly good copy of the input. I realize that I'm not getting the full distortion that I would get with an all-tube amp (power supply sag, output transformer saturation, non linearity in the finals, ...), however, I hope to get most of the way there with a much lighter package. I've been very happy with the results.
My understanding is that tubes give you more even order harmonic distortion and transistors give you odd order harmonic distortion. The reason for this is that a transistor will clip at both the positive and negative power supply rails when overdriven, IOW a turn a sine wave into a square wave, which is comprised of odd order harmonics. A tube, OTOH, can do a hard clip going to the positive power supply rail, but doesn't clip nearly as hard going to the negative (ground) power supply rail because the tube gain drops as the plate voltage drops, softening the clipping. This results in more even order harmonics.
Old school RCA 12AX7s as a quad. Awsome tubes.❤
EE here... You should teach handwriting classes for engineers
You have described why tube amps are popular with guitarists - overdriving a tube amp creates much more "pleasant" distortion than a solid state device, rumors have it because of the addition of even as opposed to odd harmonics, something you could easily verify, or not. Great episode!
New one: DIY or buy Girlfriend
So you are saying i can finally have a gf?
@@cake-lord yeah my friends single days will be over............cheers
I've been DIYing for a while now tbh
Wait.....
DIY?
Now explain how!!!!!!
Having owned a tube radio (1950's RCA Victor), it really is night and day between tube and transistor/ic. Listening to the audio as it faded in was something too, unless the tubes were warmed up already.
Why I loved GreatScott? The pen used to write and draw. Such a pleasure to my eyes
And his diction is so precise and proper !
Curves. Always good! And a tube amp in winter helps with heating.
Overdriven valves for rock guitar!
Many audiophiles love that soft distortion and imperfection, that’s why both tube amplifiers and vinyl records are still a thing.
So true, I'll have made my system all tubes pre amp phono and power amps. I never go back to transistors.
Only half conducters I have got is my cd player ( modified teac vrds10se) and dac. If you build it right without any compromise it will preform very well. I better listen to even harmonics from tubes then the distortion from a Class D transistor amp. Cheers
I'll always prefer the accuracy and clean sound of solid-state amps for all my cassettes, vinyl and CDs.
As a little tidbit - Part of the distortion characteristic of tubeamps is that instead of clipping, they tend to compress the signal instead. This gives a much more tolerable sound when you begin to get any distortion, and can squash some of the highs downwards, giving that 'warm' sound.
I've been watching you for almost 6 years, and you're the best electronics teacher I've had. Your videos never fail to teach me something new, keep up the great work!
I've never used a vacuum tube before, but I do love the way they have such a vintage look with that orange glow.
As long as they don't put a disgusting blue LED underneath it.
Blue LEDs are cancer for my eyes
it would have been interesting to measure the frequency response of the tube and see if it can be replicated with a BJT and a low pass filter.
No it can't. You can sort of approximate tube sound in software (or DSP) over an extremely low distortion SS amp, but even the best algorithms aren't all that good at reproducing the effect of tubes. They are still the best at what they do. Moreover the low pass filter is kind of a cliché; a proper tube design won't significantly roll off the treble (although some will do it on purpose because some like the sound). And that particular roll off comes from the output transformer, not the tube. Remember tubes can easily handle RF range, so audio frequencies aren't much of a challenge. In a preamp buffer like this cheap device, there won't be any roll off.
the answer is yes, but no. You need more than a lowpass filter, but overlaying frequency distortion is easy to do.
Not really. The roll-off comes from the OPT which isn't there in a pre-amp.
Besides that, it's not about "recreating the sound" (the sound is far more influenced by the speakers than the amp btw, unless we're talking about overdriven instruments), it's about building/owning the real thing.
I'm pretty sure you can modify a Prius to behave exactly like a Cadillac, even make the inside look like one with VR glasses, but is it a Cadillac? *NO.*
Jonathan Brouillet If FR looks like a tube, if slew rates are the same, if speakers are connected identically, any other type of amplifier will sound exactly like tube driven. This is physics. Everything else is subjective, personal, placebo.
@@jonathanvanier what the hell are you even talk about? You should run along and let the adults in the room talk electronics. Typical "audiophile" responses, zero EE knowledge.
Nuclear reactor. DIY or BUY?
Government: don't!!!!!
Actually it's not that hard to make a simple fusión reactor at home
@@gcr100 It's certainly not cheap either ;)
@@BertGrink yeah, but with patience you can get almost all the parts on industrial junkyards for cheap
DIY, definetly!
You read a lot of comments everyday, make sure this is one of them.
Is that a threat?
@@okashaarshad2371 GTA V quote.
only interesting and suggestive comments, not nonsense like yours
Sure✌
João Aleixo relax boy, this is a quote from gtav and it’s quite funny, for me atleast
Mr. Carlson: "Hold my oscilloscope"
I'm an electronic engineer, after many years of trying to find the explanation to why the people say that a tube amplifier is better than others, measuring all possible values and being the more objective possible. I realise that all this things doesn't matter. When you hear a tube amplifier you will never come back, is a one way path. And is not suggestive, put 10 guys in a room and do a blind test, with your best transistor amplifier (McInt for exple) and a tube amplifier (made in house) you will be surprised.
I've used to play guitar as my hobby for the past eight years. I'm really happy for this video and thanks a lot for you hard work and dedication. Looking forward for the upcoming videos.
That into never gets old.😀
It's well created i must say
7:42 This is the most sacrilegious thing i ever seen in my life!!!! But very good video about vacuum tubes :)
Not really a good tube description either, he's clearly a tube noob, wasn't even looking at the right tube characteristics (see other comments).
@@trevorhaddox6884 eh hmm... yes i know but everyone learns throughout their lives (including me) and I mentioned "good video about vacuum tubes" because he tried and showed up what he does wrong. For a beginner video is not as bad, he showed how triode works, and basic schematic of triode amplifier.
Soldering to all-glass tubes with pins is a big no-no, as they are likely to crack because of the pin thermal expansion. Sometimes the pins can also break off instead. You can get subminiature tubes that have solderable leads, but even then there is a minimum distance from the envelope specified.
A cheap Amazon hybrid is certainly not a decent evaluation of the sonic advantages of tubes over transistors. But, building real vacuum tube amplifiers involves skills and precautions beyond the scope of this channel. There are plenty of resources on the internet where would-be DIY tube enthusiasts can become dangerous enough to kill themselves.
Having said that, beware of audio equipment reviews that sound like wine tastings. “Spacious”, Warm”, “Pairs well with jazz”
Love your channel!
The other component that you must factor into tube amps is the output transformer. OTs saturate and alter the shape of the signal, so even a linear input through an OT will have a “valve amp” response. Transistor amplifiers with interstage transformers have the same audio pleasantries that valve amps do. For example the PigNose and Baldwin-Burns amps sound like valve amps but are all transistor with interstage transformers.
I remember when I was a kid going to the store and testing vacuum tubes.. all the stores had vacuum tube testers.. it was a draw so you might buy other products while you were there
Linearity can be deducted by looking at the characteristic curves of an amplifying device not from the literal straightness of the lines (which has little to do with this) but by how constant the spacing between them is. With transistors, the distance between the top two lines is pretty much the same as the distance between the two bottom ones. With triodes, the right-most lines are much closer together than the left-most lines, it is that change in spacing what deforms the signal and adds extra frequencies that were not in the original input signal, not the actual curvature of each individual line ;)
Meh. You can add a NFB circuit to both and still hear the difference...
Dear Scott the Great. Electronics is my hobby since a few years. I watch all your videos and I learned so much that I wasn't aware of therefore thank you. And I hope you keep going teaching us
Seriously, this is my favourite youtube channel. Period
Agree with most of presented about sound and distortion of tube and transistor amplifiers. As I remember from my university time, in general tube amps produce about 10 times more distortion than transistor amp. Main difference is that tube amps produce "even" harmonics that sound more harmonic or musical to our ear and this is main reason why it sounds worm and pleasant.
Tube amps make most sense in the electric guitar amplification, where the tube overdrive is highly desired. Also the voltage for rich sounding amps may be up to 450 volts. And also the great influence on the sound is made by output transformers. And yes - digital anode voltage regulators are very noisy and should be tailor made specially for tube amplification
Yup, output transformers are a big part of the sound signature of a tube amp. That's why, say, McIntosh uses output transformers even on their SS designs. And that's why a proper tube amp (or a proper tube preamp) would have been a much better choice than a "cheap opamp and Class-D module with a tube buffer" for this video...
Consumer: Analog sounds so much better!
Also consumer: *uses bluetooth*
@@thewolfin I find aptx has a comparable quality to line in on my lgv30 with quad dac
tbh it can all be "fixed" using other circutry (like filters or even - god forbid - op amp chips)
@@boazcohen7992 and that opamp filters loads more then distortion.
I use discrete opamps. They do not much with the original signal.
They're still popular in guitar amps mainly due to their overdrive characteristics. They can produce a really soft, mellow type of distortion which an overdriven transistor simply cannot create on its own. Synthetic valve distortion is achievable through some sophisticated electronics (as long as the transistors are kept out of overdrive) but that'll never be enough for a purist
This is a well constructed and presented argument that sounds logical. I don't have a counter argument, but I do have a tube pre-amp & power-amp combination that makes the music that I love sound absolutely stunning! There's a reason why audiophiles are prepared to pay the premium prices charged for high-end tube amps...because they've heard them. Cheap tube amps will probably sound worse than solid state amps of the same price because mass produced solid state manufacturing is cheaper, so I'd suggest that each technology is 'better' in it's specific niche. How lucky are we to have the choice! :)
Mr. Scott, the output signal of the 6J4 triode (at 8:14) was so ugly because of improper biasing. The grid does not require the 50V nor the 100k resistors. Maybe you should consider using just a 1 megohm resistor between grid an cathode and perhaps your power supply was not faulty.
Your 6J4 valve was operating in saturation region, so you found almost no output swing!
me:2020 can't go worse...
2020: video from great scott that isn't sponsorized from JLC pcb
I love how he still kept the old intro
Also, tube power amps have an output transformer which also affects the "pleasantness" of the sound.
If it's for hi fi audio reproduction, a well projected output transformer will have a flat response in the audible frequencies
class AB also have transformer
Or they don't and use big honking transmitter tubes that draw ridiculous filament current/banks of normal output tubes in parallel. It's called output transformerless or OTL.
I love how you took the time to draw and illustrate everything you could with pen and paper. Very cool, thank you!
Vacuum tubes do not necessarily reproduce cleaner audio, however due to the frequency response characteristics, and the characteristics of the way they clip when over driven, they produce a unique sound that is pleasant to the ears of many. Though there is some credibility to most tube amps running class A or class AB bias to truer more linear response and less distortion as opposed to class D. Keep in mind there is a lot of inductance and iron in a tube amp in the output transformers and interstage transformers that also affect the frequency response and saturation characteristics. Its not "cleaner" audio, but it is different, and quite nice to listen to. Every amplifier, period, alters the characteristics of the signal to some extent.
As always I have no freaking clue what you are talking about! But I really enjoy your videos none the less :D Keep up the awesome work Scott!
While there maybe the negligible difference in sound and tubes are energy hogs, tubes still outclass transistors for the true audiophile. Love that you showed (measured) the input/output of each circuit. Good video. 👍
are you serious?🤣tube amplifiers are much worse than transistor ones. you can find measurements of their parameters on audiosciencereview for example. measurement of noise, distortions, channels separation of tube amplifier are the worst of all other amplifiers
You must be an expert , no doubt about that ......Peter Quortrup would like to have a conversation with you ....he will be happy to learn from you .@@user-qi1cs3zg3n
@@user-qi1cs3zg3nMeasurements do not make music , some of the finest kit measures terribly.
@@user-qi1cs3zg3n there are 2 types of audiophiles, those that spend their time looking into measurements and parameters, and those that actually listen to music. I'll let you figure out which type is the true audiophile Andrew is referring to.
@@jonsnow7092 The main problem is that hearing differs from person to person. Trusting the ears of a stranger when choosing something is not very smart. This parameter is very subjective. In a blind test, "listening" audiophiles are unable to distinguish one amplifier from another. Measurements and parameters are much more objective. Manipulations about “two types” and that “those who look at the parameters do not listen to music” do not work for those people who love the scientific approach and critical thinking
I started building tube amps 40 years ago as parts from old radios were freely available. The quality of the available capacitors and transformers was not that great. I am currently still playing with tube amps and much better quality parts are now available. I like tube amps as they are (in principle) very simple compared to solid state amps. They do provide very high quality audio. Main disadvantage is the low efficiency.
You know....I want to thank you for your videos. I have wanted to do many projects and lacked confidence to get started on them. Your presentations have given me a greater understanding of process and method allowing me to do things I have put off for years.
Thank You
Audio knob here...
So yes you explained it right. Vacuum tubes have a non linear amplifying curve and such distort the signal a bit. In the music world, thats called "saturation" many people nowdays add this purposely onto their music to add this warmth and natural feeling because properly amplified and made music lacks that saturated feel. Most of the time the saturation acts more in the lower frequencies which makes the sound more bassy and such feel warmer.
Great video, and you can do more stuff with tubes, its very interesting. At the moment i am trying to build a whole simple computer out of tubes.
Scott, thanks for your videos. I agree always that the tube amps add a character to the sound, if you want true audio then the best is a class A
I only trust Mr. Carlson. When we need to talk about tubes.
Don't we all?
@@mthompson965 Sure.
Don’t forget Uncle Doug and D-Lab!
@@jimhibert ohh :( my mistake.. Yes! you are right!
Mr Carlson agree with that video.
The key to the "natural" sound of a tube amp or preamp is not simply the distortion. It is also the TYPE of distortion. In the natural world, there are very few things, if any, that create a pure tone. There is also some distortion, in the form of harmonics, whether it is a bell, a trumpet, a voice, etc. Importantly, these harmonics are on the even multiples of the original tone, and roll off naturally the higher the multiple of the original tone. THIS is what our ears are used to hearing every day of our lives. Tubes DO introduce even-ordered harmonics (2, 4,.etc.). Transistors, when distortion is present, particularly in the early days of transistor technology, is odd-ordered (3, 5, 7, etc.). So with transistors, either the natural even-ordered harmonics are suppressed entirely, or odd-ordered, which sounds harsh and brittle to our ears. That is why you don't have to push a tube amp or preamp into what would typically be distortion levels to notice its benefits. This is why the term "natural" is a good one. Tubes recreate sound that is similar to our real world experience, distortion and all. In contrast, transistors sound "dry", "lifeless", or even harsh - before even reaching levels of distortion.
Welcome to the world of hi-fi snobbery. ;) Tube amplifiers are exactly the way you describe: They have a "warm" distortion that many people, especially those who grew up with that kind of sound, really like. Many of those people would describe transistor amplifiers as "clinical" sounding. But objectively, that is exactly what an amplifier SHOULD be. The purpose of a good amplifier is to amplify a signal without altering it in any other way. Of course, it's entirely okay to enjoy the tube type sound, but it's objectively an inferior way of amplifying a signal. I'm of the opinion that tube amplifiers are perfectly fine for use in guitar amplifiers and such things. Anything you introduce before the recording studio, is part of the instrument so to speak. But once you've recorded the piece of music, the ideal is for the listener to hear exactly the same performance that was recorded in the studio.
That is a hybrid amplifier, not a "true" tube amplifer. It has a tube in the pre-amp stage and a solid state power amp. Really the only differences from your typical transistor amplifier is that the tubes create a more pleasant harmonic response and "clips" naturally when driven.
Hello Scott, good job! I admire you because of the time you dedicate on each video, providing detailed explanations on everything you think and do with the merely purpose of making everyone understand. Greetings from Buenos Aires, Argentina!
This wasn't a good example of a traditional tube amp.
Agree
Pretty much the worst possible example.
Fully share
Digital ready speakers need digital inputs don't they?🍄🧙♂️
Here come the tube lovers
listening to this video on my tube amp!
I like your approach to the topic. You cover both sides, the feelings of the consumer, and what happens to the frequencies on the physical level.
And I like how you state, that some people love that particular tube sound, but still this simply doesn't apply so much for you.
Audio tube amplification is a strongly debated field, and you manage very well to state your observations and opinion without being too harsh towards other opinions.
He's not using a true tube amp. BTW, I like both solid state and tube.
As you stated you're reading all the comments, I use this chance:
Dude, your videos are awesome! Thank you :)
At least when something goes wrong it doesn’t sound like a dial up modem screaming into the mic 😂
Id like to see you try DCC control. Its mainly sold for model trains to have multiple trains on the same track but controlled with signals sent through the two rails(if im understanding it correctly). At least one guy built an arduino library for it but it still requires quite a bit of electronics.
I grew up on vinyl - i have a tube preamp for my turntable going into a bugara tube amplifier ! i like it - its warm natural and what you here is basically how it was recorded in the studio ! I thought i was 1 of only a few !
Building my own tube shit is what got me into electronics and eventually led to me deciding to become an electrical engineer.
Your channel keeps me interested in electronics.
Ahhh, a face for the voice I have followed for years. Greetings from USA !
This is NOT and I repeat NOT a true representation of a classic tube audio amplifier. A true tube ausio amp has no solid state parts in it anywhere . It will be all resistors and capacitors. It will have a high voltage transformer called a plate transformer That will step up the voltage from 110vac to around 500vdc. The preamp tubes will usually be a 12AX7 and the finals are usually a pair of 6L6GC or something similar. Aslo you have to have an output transformer. Which will couple the plates of the output finals and the output of the output transformer would be either 4,8, or 16 ohms connected directly to speakers. And since we mentioned speakers you cant just use modern day speakers made for Transistor amps they need to be paper cone speakers
True said
I like the audio related stuff! Tubes in the preamp do provide a softer clipping, but that's only part of tube amp. The prized dynamic and complex tube amp eq comes from the impedances in a tube driven power section. Also, an interesting way to visualize audio characteristics of a certain circuit is to run pink noise thru it into a frequency analyzer.
GLAD to hear that you read most of comments that means what we are writing is always meaningfull atleast to write
Very well explained, thanks for this one. I read all my comments but you have WAY more viewers so my hat's off toy you if you read them all, lol!
FINALLY. Validation. I've been telling my friends every chance I get: "Warm" sound is distorted sound!
Scott builds an Ampeg SVT
As always, great video! And although I am not that much into tubes, it still was very interesting! Keep up the great work! I (personally) would wish that there were some more tutorials on how to use the ESP32 properly, with all its bells and whistles
Great Scott the future is now ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ thanks for the video Man 😊
one of the things I always do when I watch people on youtube is check the comments section to make sure that they've replied to at least 1 or 2 comments; I can't stand the youtubers who ask for likes/comments and don't even bother to read a few of them. so congrats for being a good youtuber.
This reminded me... Can you please do noise cancelling? I remember learning about the noise cancelling circuit in college but would love to see your take. Maybe a DIY or BUY?
As an audiophile, i can assure you the quantity of output transformer and coupling transformer/capacitor of a tube amplifiers is also a very important factor of reproducing quality sound. Try with better tube such as 300b, 2A3 before given up.
I happened to just watch this video which seems to agree with your viewpoint ruclips.net/video/p0fJSaVljeg/видео.html
Great video! I only have one question. What are those two 100kΩ suppose to do?
I assume this isn't a triode, but a pentode. The two 100kohm resistors are a voltage divider. The lower resistor should be decoupled. Pentodes need DC on one screen. If the screen is tied to the anode, it operates like a triode. Look at the datasheet of the EF86 pentode. It has application examples. Pdfs are available online. Pretty much the only signal pentode used in audio in the 1950s-60s.
@@grisflyt Exactly. In this way it operates in ultralinear mode, which is a strange choice for a preamp stage. Usually you'd like a nice triode like a 12AX7. Here they probably should just connect the plate to the screen and run it in triode mode; after all, this pretend device is supposed to give you "tube sound" on the cheap. Although with a tube buffer strapped on an opamp with a cheap Class-D module for the output, I'm not sure it's worth the trouble: NOT the recommended way to audition tube sound if you're curious about it!
@@jonathanvanier I doubt that. In ultralinear, you have negative feedback within the transformer. How much is dependent where you tap it, typically 34%, if I remember. This seems to be nothing more than a voltage divider. Since it's important that the screen gets ripple-free DC (ideally low impedance, there should be a capacitor.
This amp is just riding on the tube trend. I don't really consider this a tube amp. It may still be a fine amplifier. Today's opamps are very good.
@@grisflyt I went back to the video and I was wrong, the screen/suppressor grid is indeed connected to DC on the circuit and not the plate, so it’s not running in ultralinear. Sorry about that. This begin said, ultralinear really just means that you feed a percentage of the plate’s output to the screen; a simple way to do so is, indeed, to use a tap on the transformer’s primary, but you can do it with a voltage divider just as well. It’s still called operating the tetrode in ultralinear mode. And of course, in a preamp stage you don’t normally have a transformer tap available (or if you use something like global feedback, you’d probably rather do it on the cathode anyway). But you’re right that it’s just a form of feedback.
All this being said, I fully agree with you that this device is not a tube amp, in no shape or form.
First records come back, and now vacuum tubes
What the heckin beans
I had built a vacuum tube amp in 2012. My reference was a book by Dave Hunter Guitar Amp Handbook. To this day it is a very good
Functioning amp. It produces about 10 to 12 watts depending what vacuum tubes you use. My total cost was at $500 for all components and enclosure.
It was not a difficult amplifier to build with paying close attention to the schematics.
The tube amp may have been negligible in terms of quality, but these videos are top quality (which always brings me back). Your videos are always interesting and cool, and have great delivery and quality. Keep up the great work!
It's not a real tube amp. It is junk as far as saying it's a tube amp. Now if it was just solid state without the tubes then it would be a solid state amp but with these tubes being used the way they are it isn't a proper tube amp.
I envy his handwriting
Just in case you think those tubes are useless in those amplifiers: the Fender Twin Reverb guitar amplifier and the Marshall JCM800 guitar amp are both tube amplifiers AND the most iconic guitar amps of all time. You can hear those amps in music by Red Hot Chili Peppers, Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Eric Clapton, Christone Kingfish Ingram, Gary Moore, Slayer, Nirvana, Guns And Roses and countless bands and artists
Hi Scott, I used to start learning electronics for a long while now, but things get complicated as I dive deeper, after some time I found it difficult to continue to learn, I thought it was to go to university in order to specialize on electronics, but recently I came across your video of Q&A in which you mentioned that *You come from non-electronics background* this one word from your mouth gave me a big inspiration to continue to learn electronics., I thought if Scott without relevant background can be so bright, why can't I..?? 🤔🤔🤔
Primary advantage? Cool factor. Those tubes are rad as hell.
Guitar effects board you say? I'd certainly like a look at that. Hope you make a video on that (if not already) soon 😉
I was waiting for the part where you listened to music with your ears.
yeah a comparison would have been great. It's one thing to talk specs and numbers and another to see how they translate into the real world. Its like telling me that a resistor before an LED will reduce brightness and not actually showing me how much it does in real life
Dude I can't wait to see your drone
Plz at least make something about your quadcopter
How much time we'll have to wait
One very important quality overlooked here is the slew rate of a transistor vs a VT. At least due to the higher operating voltage, if not the speed of electrons flying from the cathode to the anode (~10% speed of light), tube amps have much faster slew rates. This is really going to stand out with the shape of the transient note attacks, and that's a really key part of the sound that our ears pick up on because it is so frequency rich -- at least that's my understanding of it.
True said
Excellent video
Oh, dont mind me i am just searching for Mr.Carlson's comment.
Hahah YUP
11:40 You cannot look distortion like that! The plate voltage does not change. You should look at grid voltage to anode current.
To do this, draw a line from your plate voltage (B+ or HT) on the voltage axis, to the short circuit current on the current axis and see how it crosses the grid voltage lines. Just like designing a BJT amp.
Also, the reason you don't need a tube amp is probably the music producers are using tube devices or software models of tubes to record, mix and master the tracks.
You need "golden ears" to separate high end amps. Try a Gallium Nitride amplifier.
It is more pleasing to the ear for sure. Like beauty- the eye of the beholder, it is the ear of the listener.
Hab erst gedacht du schrumptst einen Schrumpfschlauch an der heissen Trioden Röhre :P Aber das war ja ein Temperatur Sensor.