Lenovo ideapad 3 - Not charging, not coming on repair - USB Type C the worst port design ever
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- Опубликовано: 4 янв 2023
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Take in account that the USB-C contacts have a width of 0.25mm (+/- 0.04) and the most recent specs want to pull 240W over the connection (50V at 5A)
good old barrel jack...
edit - I just used a wire size calculator and the recommendation for a 50V/5A power draw is a cross-sectional area of 0.326mm². The contact pad has a cross-sectional are of 0.0125mm² (cca)
Not to mention the mating ends have to have a large contact area to carry that current.
pull it contiously or just peak ??
@@efdawahfan Continuous, like when you are charging the battery and playing a demanding game.
@@marcellipovsky8222 thank you so much ...i have another question for you brother...how much current can a copper strip 5mm x 0.2mm handle ??
@@efdawahfan I am no wire expert, but chatgpt says "A copper wire 5 mm long and 0.2 mm in diameter can handle a maximum current of approximately 94.2 mA without overheating. Please note that this is an estimate and may vary based on the specific conditions and the actual temperature rise of the wire."
You shared knowledge sir. Don't be depressed. We learn a lot from you.
Thank you for sharing the frustrations we all have in our day to day living. I empathise with you.
Thank you so much for deciding to post this video. very informative.
Hi Sorin, Totally agree with your comments on USB-C. Your ability to find the tiny culprit is most amazing!
I love your teachings sir; it's really helping me daily with my study in computer maintenance.
am an upcoming technician. laptop repairer, i will love to continue learn more from you sir and become expert like you.
It's not a pointless video. Thank you. Very good comments on the state of things. Engineers are bossed by sales people, so this is how things go.
Planned obsolescence! Great video, Sorin - thanks a lot for Your Channel. One of the best 🙂
When sorin got mad angee you can feel current 😅😅
The current is coming from the electronic cigarette... :D
Shoutout My name is jersey marco from the Philippines.
I really like your videos. I learn a lot.
Hello Philippines 👍👍
Hello from Algeria. Thanx for all videos you're making.
I've definitely encountered some devices that use usb-c style ports for power and don't follow anything like usb-c standard
Including one device where all the pins were bridged internally into one power and one ground connection
Well, I have bad news for your Sorin, all notebooks are set to come out from factory with USB-C port 😥The thing is, that not all USB-C ports are equal. Some have through hole pins, others just surface mounted pins. IMO, Lenovo is using the worst kind of ports in their Thinkpad series (maybe Ideapad as well), and they are not securing the ports with some kind of metal bracket, to prevent them from breaking easily. Had a Thinkpad which had lots of through hole pins which were all broken, as the port was not properly secured by a bracket, and worse than that, some of the pads were gone.
Lenovo dropped down quality long time ago. Especially their soldering technique at factory and solder material. Today I had Ideapad 330? Don't recall exact number. Customer complaint: black screen, charge light changing state every second. Confirmed that BIOS kept resetting for some reason that's why black screen and long boot time, disassembly time. I tried to remove battery connector with tweezers and just a slight pressure from tweezers made connector completely snap off the board, traces intact fortunately. 2 plus pins had burned solder so they cracked a while ago, rest didn't hold either. Resoldered connector, BIOS keeps being funny but for good measure while it still did read I made dump and I'll replace bios chip for the customer for a good measure.
Can you please start putting the basic model like you did in this but also put the full model of each laptop you fix in the description? You will get a ton more views long term if you do as well. Thanks. I wish I understood more about how you use the meters and stuff but keep it up!
Customer: my Lenovo junk is broken
Sorin: I'am too depressed right now..🤣
One more great video, keep on with the good job, no matter what!
So an improvement to the USB-C layout, (to make it more resilient) would be to swap the GND and VBus pins and to put a little additional spacing between the VBus and the adjacent Pins. (So there be bigger protection for other pins to get accidently connected to a high voltage)
Ahaaa loved it ! Thanks for sharing this insight ;)
I understand your frustration Sorin, cars used to be simple at one time, then they had to over complicate them also. It seems to always work that way, over complicating.
Yes, I totally agree! Our expensive Lenovo notebook was destroyed by a faulty USB-C charger. There seems to be no effective protection circuit to protect the mainboard although a defect USB-C charger should be considered a probable event that shouldn't be able to destroy the whole machine!
"The world is changing.. Greed" - me first! Good that you are calling it out. I have recommended T480 and we bought 5 for staff, but the charging port issue makes me nervous (before I saw your video.)
I'm primarily an audio guy and we never like power and audio parallel in an installation. Same with data. Pro audio and video used the always have robust connections (XLR / BNC) ) wired separately to the board, instead of direct to the board. Commerce do not want longevity. But their treatment of customers puts me off brands.
This was a worthwhile video, because I wouldn't have checked the other side. This will be handy to some. Thanks.
Hi Sorin, yes indeed, the world is changing on a trend to miniaturize, compress and complicate everything in such a way that becomes pointless or less profitable to fix broken things, with no or less information regarding the background schematics (in order to give more control to the manufacturing or dealership giants over the supply chain for spare parts, post sales, servicing, R&D & sales of new products or technological generation change), as the worldwide middle man market to restore, repair and resale still competitive products is a multi-billion one that is directly affecting production and dispatching volumes of goods on saturated markets. Even the quality of components is not as before, being designed to last as long as the warranty (but not longer then that) or until the next generation of products is scheduled to be released. Everything is a sales game targeting huge profits in the name of human progress, speculating the modern world desire to have the last minute innovations in their hands at any cost.
the issue with power lines crossing data lines also was known to this industry some years previously with the firewire 1394 specs. but they just swept it under the rug.
so in the end i just decided to de solder and remove those vcc pin from all my firewire cards. they were not being used and just a huge risk to inflict damage break the connected device
and now they want to run 48v over usb-c. to get the 240w laptop charging
great video as always Sorin solution works :) also like you I hate the USB-C port :)
Yes, It might be a bad implementation. The USB-C spec says the VBUS starts at 5V (like previous USB), and then the devices can negotiate up to a higher voltage up to 20V/5A. Also, using the wrong cables or underrated cables can cause issues. Maybe they should have added an on/off switch for USB ports from the beginning... 🤣🤣🤣
Hey Sorin, Please do not get depressed. We still can feel the pain.
Hi Sorin! Right now I'm trying to understand the USB type C connector and the solutions behind it, for example PD handshake. I'm on it.
13:09 Are you sure that there is voltage at the output of the connector even if no device is plugged in? I don't think so, but I would be happy if someone could confirm or deny it.
There's 5V by default and that shouldn't do any harm. The whole world is using it, think about it... any higher voltage/current would only be applied after proper negotiation. Sorin might take things too far when he's angry, IMHO
That's nice tutorial master
So my i have the same exact laptop with the same problem. If i take out that chip will it work again?
Have you swapped the hot ait stations?
I have a new Lenovo laptop with USB-C PD and also a barrel jack, it came with a barrel jack power supply. Is this the best of both worlds?
Nice job
good luck my hero
i have had the similar problem on my company provided laptop, the Type C connector was worn and not charging / powering the laptop, luckily it was under warranty - the service center replaced the motherboard and they indicated that USB Type C port was the issue.
I've never had problems with any ports until the advent of USB C. Can't stand them 😠
Could also be that the chip is fine, but either the usb-a or the usb-c on the board have some contacts shorting inside them, i have seen that many times, but could also be the chip only or both the port and the chip, anyway nice video Sorin
Agree 100%. Complete insanity for the sake of a few extra pennies for the shareholders.
Certainly an interesting topic, it's kinda unfortunate that some companies do things solely for money.
You are so great Kee going on.
Unfortunately, things are likely to get worse, various mandates will standardise ports used (based on USB C, as far as I know). Not only is mixing high current power and signals on the same miniature connector asking for trouble, so is such a relatively-fragile connector on a device like a laptop (where connecting and disconnecting is likely to happen multiple times over its lifetime).
I can't remember why you have ( v ) in screen meter .
You have spoke about it long time ago.
PLZ explain it in 30 seconde .
Thanks
It's designed to fail, sells more laptops. If people stopped buying laptops with usb-c ports, they'd change back but people won't because they don't know any better. If you look at a Dell dock USB-C connector and the weak solder that holds their ports in, there is no surprise people are going mental trying to get their dock working. I've literally seen Dell laptops where the legs of the USB-C are barely soldered, some aren't. Look at the size and weight, (deliberately made big and bulky to weaken the usb port) it is designed to fail, simple.
Sorin You are not the only one that hates horrible designs. :-(
Ill keep my old normal laptops, normal usb and barrel power input.
you are 100% Right!!
I have one of these newer Lenovo's with the USB charging, and it seems mad to me you are going to pull alot of power/voltage through such a small port. Are they trying to defy physics? I notice I can charge using both of the ports; is that is because they expect on them to fail (and its just a matter of time). It reminds me of plastic parts in cars when some years back they used aluminium alloy; now the plastic only lasts a short time before it becomes brittle and uv affected.
you're sooooo right!!
Is it possible that having support for PD makes it useful? I think so.
I absolutely agree with you.
It only has to last past warranty. Its quite clever actually, they made it as intended.
Hello! I am reaching out to you for an advise. I have a laptop that will not power on with the power button, this laptop will only power on once I have reset the Battery (with charger not plugged in) and once I plug in the charger it will automatically turn on. I have to do this procedure every time I want to turn on the computer. The power button board is separate from the motherboard but this board also has an SD Card reader and one USB Port and both are working fine. I am not knowledgable in testing volatges in the circuits but I will appreciate any advise, thank you!
Battery problem probably. In first try to change or Ask a shop to test a same one in, or probably the power circuit of battery.
@@chrisof570 thank you, I will try that out. I'll update you once I have tested it.
Sorin,
Don’t be down by a stupid usb-c port.
I understand that. And it’s new and everyone want that. Fast charging. And fast reading writing. But it’s seconds faster not hours. The people want to be faster al the time .
And they use the usb-c port. It’s terrible. The sound from my receiver do not have a usb -c port can’t push the quality trough the tiny….. and quality is not what the people want they want to be faster.
Sorin thanks for sharing.
We love your ways of thinking.
Have a nice weekend
Greetings from Holland 🇳🇱
Why is not going to 19v when he plug charger ?
Nice one 👍
Sorry to say Sorin but isn't a pointless video...
Companies are just looking for numbers, they dont care about customers anymore.
keep the good work. Have a great year
no second usb-c, Mr.Costumer can buy a dongle!! hahhaha
I think many, many more failure at this feature of port and chip configure. Very curious to hear opinion as new Intel high frequency standard to top of the line CPU release. And, I know and understand this cost will be upper level as quality perhaps and not so much as Lenavo low end rubbish. Will the new Intel chips as power need and game level be solid builds?
is a great idea can plug in monitor mean while charging the laptop, or some power bank can support extra power for laptop. or carry 1 power adapter for many devices, can also plug as docking station with charging.
just not easy for repair😅
luv this
Excellent commentary on these goofy ass USB-C charging ports.
Sorin I am young man but the things you say are so right about the changing world.. amazing to me as I always think humans are so smart and can do anything. Now I don't know what to think 😂
USB-C really messed up when they wanted to also use it to supply power without consideration for conductor distance and size. Even USB-A had bigger connections and contact area just for the power lines.
I do not like this trend either. One reason they moved away from round jack connectors is the size, they push for laptops that are thinner and thinner and the round jack was too thick. They could have made a new jack but since USB-C was already around they thought "why not use this ?". People need to punish those vendors with their wallets. When nobody will buy bad designs anymore, they will be forced to improve.
Totally agree with your rant. Design engineers should be forced to spend some time in production and maintenance departments in order to realize how their designs impact the guys further down the line. Let me not get started on sales guys and committees overriding good design ideas. And for the guys burning to crap on me as beingn armchair commentator, well, I was a design engineer that spent a lot of time in maintenance and production environments, so that greatly influenced my designs… not saying it was perfect, but I learnt to see things from both a production and maintenance pov.
I agree 100% Sorin .
i feel you bro.. =(
Personally, I love Type C everywhere. I'm full of Type-C devices and gadgets... But maaaaan, I don't want it in laptops. I prefer carrying a USB PD trigger with the correct barrel pin instead. Small portable devices are fine with type C, not laptops.
If the port was damaged would removing the same chip solve the problem of not switching on?
The reason I ask is I have a damaged USB-C port and now the laptop will not switch on, could removing the chip like in this video resolve the issue for me
@@ss67uk Why you don't the port itself? Propably both makes problem. Its all up to measurement like in the video.. testing.
@@XantheFIN thank you for reply, I was not sure if you would need to remove the port if the chip is removed as in the video. Maybe I will try both
Trading standards should throw the book at the manufacturers for not standardizing them!
USB Type C is amazing for a lot of reasons BUT the issue is with how companies use it because it's so open, it allows to be used in a proprietary way because anyone can basically set it up in the way they want it to communicate.
Edit: USB Type-C or the new name of it, USB-C, for charging is also a really good thing because i don't have to have every proprietary crap port every company wants to make it different, i can have 1 or 2 chargers (watt depended and not port anymore) to charge/power all of my USB Type-C devices.
Just like induction stoves... How to complicate the hell out of something that works fine the way it was. The spare parts crazy expensive and pretty much impossible to DIY repair by regular joe. Also, the electronics and power supply come with capacitors that will crap out sooner than later.
Good vid for awareness, i now know
Sorin,this video is not pointless but I think it will be the most important video of 2023...
Welcome to CD3215 et al on Macbooks
Hi Sorin! You once said that you need to get a linear power supply. And yeah, a linear might be better, but can you get away with a switching one? Is it that bad? Can you do proper voltage injection with it? Btw. I have a WPS305H Thank you!
Totally agree. WTF Lenovo - USB-C is the worst thing for charging a laptop. It is poorly designed for attaching to their laptop boards. It needs to be more, say, robust to handle the human factor - they love to abuse the port on the laptop. I have seen so many at work with scratches all around where the charge cable connects to the laptop. Lenovo should have stuck with the square slim charge port from the previous models.
USB C can be complex from a repair stand point. But is God sent for the consumers.
Step #1 = 5v USBC IN --> to PD Controller --> (PD) Generate its own 1V8 + 3V3 --> 3v3 to BIOS --> PD Ready to communicate with charger.
Step #2 = PD to Charger --> Now USBC IN 20v --> 20v to PD + POWER SWITCH --> 20v to charge IC --> etc...
Rather than:
19V DCIN --> Charge IC --> 3v Linear Reg + SMC --> Charge IC = Device ready
Sorry Sorin, but the only objective of the company is the quickest profit and if possible form a monopoly. Respect for human beings is always in the background.
“The world has changed.
I see it in the water.
I feel it in the Earth.
I smell it in the air.
Much that once was is lost..."
Agreed
I completely agree, USB-C is a bad and overcomplicated idea for charging. I dont think this will save electronic waste at all. Maybe some cables or simple phone charger... But a lot of devices will have to be disposed just because the stupid charging port is broken.
I repaired equipment in a fast food restaurant. I usually had to order 3 of the same part in the hopes that at least one would work. Quality.....what quality????
it is depressing i watch techs fixing cars and they need 4 channel oscilloscops.
This feels like me trying to figure out why the fuk my nintendo switch lite wont charge despite it turning on and working. I changed the m92t36 chip which got the switch to a point where it works but its not charging, it could also be a software thing but I will continue to probe around a little more.
Meanwhile I modded my Lenovo ThinkPad T430 to have a USB-C charging port using a ZYPDS trigger board.
Well Sorin, if there is an upside to this it's that you and the rest of us repairing electronics will not be out of a job any time soon! That said, I 100% agree with you...
Couldn’t agree with you more, If I see a laptop come in with usb-c not charging I no longer even look at it, it’s a waste of time.
Old man shouts at the clouds.
The USB Type C design is so good that Texas Instrument felt the need to create the protector chip TPD6S300A. That no one will use
I love them since they provide a secured income.
But, is the port still working?
The USB-C port, of course not. The USB-A port, is probably working.
Hi Sorin, yes it is crazy. Some new designs may have been made with good intentions but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Thay can take something good and turn it into a moneymaker. Char up. 73 Leo
The criminals are among us Sorin!
Ohh i was pissed off, similar problem, usb c "charging"(melting) port, almost toss one laptop away, there is only one point for what they are doing, to make older chargers uselles, and make laptop to function in strict guarante period of max 3 years.
USB-C was supposed to be used as universal for connecting devices so we don't have micro pico nano kiki diki ports for 100's of different devices and cables but have a standard USB-C cable and port for all devices. It was never part of the original idea to also use USB-C for charging ports on laptop's. This is really stupid and 100% agree.
This has a two words explanation: planned obsolescence
maybe someday they'll decide to use USB-C for mains too, because the current mains socket size is, you know, too bulky... who knows...
Sorin, there is nothing to disagree. I'm loosing faith too. My domain is software, but recently i fixed old Lenovo T420, the ibm ver. Many screws, each one different, but the inside is clearly ment to be reapired, last long time and peripherals can be upgraded. Everything accessible easily, detachable... Recently i bought one of tesla smart plugs. User is no longer part of the equation. You can't even see usage statistics if the plug isn't online. I mean online, not just connected to local network. User is not allowed run this plug just locally. No, cloud only. And without history. It's stored in plug itself : )
That is probably why the schematic is not provided. We will realise how we are being ripped off.
Have you seen the lightbulb conspiracy?
you are not the only one... i realy HATE THIS USB-C shit that is made to be used with display and charging at 20V with 3-5A.
what do you expect from laptop thu brand new price is 179 pounds