That’s the key to the conundrum - we condemn a person to death (no matter how reprehensible the crime they committed), we are also condemning them to hell, unless by some miracle they repented of their sins and became a Christian beforehand. For that reason alone I would demur from the death penalty, but the efforts of those who minister to prisoners on death row is vital and goes without saying hugely worthwhile when a soul is saved! I also seriously doubt whether the examples in the OT where capital punishment was handed down or considered applicable are grounds for justifying same in this church age. Thanks for the considered and balanced dissertation on this difficult topic.
I love and appreciate Bro. Bernard and his teaching, wisdom, and intelligence. Now I'm just praying for God to give him the revelation and understanding of Daniel 7 and other end times, things like Bro Baxter taught. 😅 Reading Understanding the Bible by DKB and that part had me struggling to continue.
I always appreciate your insights. I usually know before I even load the video what your answer is going to be based on my years in the church with very good teaching. I admit today I wasn't so sure, though I did figure that Christian liberty was going to play a part of your answer. I hope you serve as General Superintendent for many more years Bro. Benard.
Cain was marked and forced to be a vagabond and literally couldnt sustain himself unless he killed animals or took from someone else (strength can mean fruit) look at genesis 4:12 cain had a worser punishment than being killed, he was forced to wander and either kill animals or ask for handouts. Look at the words wanderer and vagabond, the root words indicate sorrow, and trembling/wandering. This indicating his punishment was worse than a typical murderer who can hide from his conscience and the sorrow of his actions, wereas cain was forced to live in it till the day he died a natural or at least a unmurdered death.
I have always been in favor of capital punishment, but only as a last resort. While no one is beyond the reach of Jesus, not everyone He reaches actually wants what He has to offer. Sadly, there are those in our world who are content in their evilness, and have no desire to be reformed. Among those individuals are they who are far too dangerous to be left alive, considering the threat they pose to others. I support the death penalty in such cases, when a person has zero desire to reform, even when offered by Jesus Himself, and is also too dangerous to remain alive among those he or she could hurt.
No. No judicial system could perfect the will of God unless it was God Himself. That would be the logic of the Judeo-Christian God. Contending with providing justice on earth, that’s a task humans must take on.
I'm one of the Christians who would respectfully disagree. Dr. Bernard surfaced most of the points I'd disagree on, which shows good perspective on the issue. The way I understand it, the death penalty was enacted as a deterrent to crime. Since, though, it's become a matter of revenge. Also, the implications of executing innocent people considered, we can see that government isn't responsible enough to make such decisions. Also, there is the fact that government can wield that power unjustly. Knowing that we have a Bible mandate to obey the laws of the land (except where they conflict with the Bible), this thinking would cause a dilemma. If the government said that breaking a small, non-religious law was worthy of capital punishment, are we bound to honor that ruling? If it's right in God's sight that we object at that point, where is the line drawn, definitively? It's rather telling, I feel, when Christians favor the death penalty but conscientously object to being the ones carrying it out. At that point, they tend to recognize that it's ending a life and a person's chance to repent and find their way to God. But, they're fine with vocalizing the opinion, just not seeing it through. I personally would neither want to do it, nor to promote it. In our 21st century society, the court of public opinion still holds some weight. Great discussion though, I'll be sharing with some friends who aren't Christians.
The cities of refuge were made because God understood the innocent manslayer, and how people would try to kill him, though he did not mean to kill. I think this helps believers to understand that God has a specific idea of who is worthy of death. Deuteronomy 19:1-13 and 15-21 deals witnessess and judgement
My father said something to me years ago that made me stop and think, and he said: "We kill ppl who kill ppl to teach ppl that killing is wrong," which by itself sounds hypocritical and that statement always stuck with me for some reason.
the bible says an eye for an eye , we are not allowed to murder someone premeditated, how can one walk away free when u plan someone's murder,and since DNA i dont think anyone is innocently accused
God Himself demanded it of us in Genesis because of the intrinsic value of human life. If you take a life, your life becomes forfit as payment for the life you took. Anything less would devalue the life that was taken.
@@Palmstreet-u7xthat's no always the case, I do support the death penalty but I also recognize that no one is made of better clay. There is always corruption as well as forensic scientists that screw things up. Anything could go wrong in the making of a case. Hence why we have defence attorneys.
@@Palmstreet-u7xthat is incorrect application. Exodus 21:11-27 have to do with injury, not murder, and even gives exceptions to it. Furthermore, Jesus gave a different commandment in matthew 5:38-39 which, again, emphasizes personal injury, not murder.
Its not agreeing with it if you allow secular society to put justice on secular evil. Its not a theocracy so you can’t try to implement Christian mercy as if all the people are Christians or will be converted to Christianity. Otherwise, nobody would be murdering. Jesus didn’t outlaw justice.
In the USA civil society isn’t meant to be secular. Please see evidence below 👇🏻. North Carolina Constitution Preamble: We, the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for the preservation of the American Union and the existence of our civil, political and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those blessings to us and our posterity, do, for the more certain security thereof and for the better government of this State, ordain and establish this Constitution. This type of claim is made in all 51 Constitutions. The Constitution of the United States of America Article 7: done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names, They are clearly claiming JESUS is LORD in the federal Constitution. The following shows how Biblical Principles are a necessity for good government and have been inshrined in America law. 👇🏻 Arizona State Constitution Article 2 “Declaration of Rights” Section 1: Fundamental Principles; Recurrence to: “A frequent recurrence to fundamental principles is essential to the security of individual rights and the perpetuity of free government.” Wisconsin State Constitution Article I “Declaration of Rights” Section 22: Maintenance of Free Government: “The blessings of a free government can only be maintained by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality and virtue, and by frequent recurrence to fundamental principles.” Maxim of Law: 51q. A frequent recurrence to fundamental principles, and a firm adherence to justice, virtue, and original law, are indispensably necessary to preserve the blessings of liberty and good government. American Maxim. One more American maxim of law. 👇🏻 Maxim of Law: 51o. All political power is inherent in the people by decree of God, thus none can exist except it be derived from them. American Maxim. All of the Above is Law in the USA. It’s our duty as the American People and more specifically as The Body of CHRIST to demand these principles be upheld by our trustees and servants within the government We the People created. Text of Paragraph I: Origin and Foundation of Government All government, of right, originates with the people, is founded upon their will only, and is instituted solely for the good of the whole. Public officers are the trustees and servants of the people and are at all times amenable to them. Missouri Constitution Article 1 Bill of Rights: Text of Section 3: Powers of the People over Internal Affairs, Constitution and Form of Government That the people of this state have the inherent, sole and exclusive right to regulate the internal government and police thereof, and to alter and abolish their constitution and form of government whenever they may deem it necessary to their safety and happiness, provided such change be not repugnant to the Constitution of the United States. 🙏🇺🇸! In JESUS Name! Amen!
The Bible states that "because sentence against an evil work is not speedily executed, the hearts of men are fully set in them to do evil". That being said, I worked for the Department of Corrections for 18 years. I believed in the validity of the death penalty because I have seen so many prisoners fake being rehabilitated and then get paroled and go out and commit another heinous crime against humanity. However, I myself could not serve on a jury where capital punishment was a possibility. I personally don't feel that I could condemn someone to death and not suffer the mental tortures of the damned because of it. Incidentally, if you have not viewed Bro. Bernard's message at Gen. Conf. 2023, "Consumed by Zeal", you have missed a masterpiece.
Brother Bernard, an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth is hypocritical. Pro-life is pro-life. Jesus does the judging we do not take any life, a murder a horrible evil person sits in consequences of penalty a prison for the rest of their days, then goes to God an gets to judge, like your cousin probably was saved. Glory to God for that! Jesus did not kill Saul he converted him into Paul. Pro-life is pro-life.
If you’re using the pro life argument and attempting to compare abortion with the death penalty for someone who’s committed murder and been found guilty by a jury of their peers; then your logic is flawed, because the baby is innocent. 🙏🇺🇸! In JESUS Name! Amen!
As an Apostolic American I’d like to address the idea of a “secular society”. The fundamental principle that the USA is founded upon is that our inherent, inalienable, indubitable, indefeasible rights are granted to us individually by GOD; so therefore it’s impossible, even within our civil law, to claim something as a right if it violates GOD’S law. 🙏🇺🇸! In JESUS Name! Amen!
Why do upc senior citizens retire into financiL embarrassment and dissappear from the church for ever????? I spent 25 years in the military and got all over the U.s.a . The 65ers mostly made ends meet . Young widows who lost their husband's early in life struggled the rest of their life or until they found a new husband. .. talking about the day after retirement.
That’s the key to the conundrum - we condemn a person to death (no matter how reprehensible the crime they committed), we are also condemning them to hell, unless by some miracle they repented of their sins and became a Christian beforehand. For that reason alone I would demur from the death penalty, but the efforts of those who minister to prisoners on death row is vital and goes without saying hugely worthwhile when a soul is saved! I also seriously doubt whether the examples in the OT where capital punishment was handed down or considered applicable are grounds for justifying same in this church age. Thanks for the considered and balanced dissertation on this difficult topic.
I love and appreciate Bro. Bernard and his teaching, wisdom, and intelligence.
Now I'm just praying for God to give him the revelation and understanding of Daniel 7 and other end times, things like Bro Baxter taught. 😅
Reading Understanding the Bible by DKB and that part had me struggling to continue.
Great insight Bro. David.😊
I always appreciate your insights. I usually know before I even load the video what your answer is going to be based on my years in the church with very good teaching. I admit today I wasn't so sure, though I did figure that Christian liberty was going to play a part of your answer. I hope you serve as General Superintendent for many more years Bro. Benard.
As christians, we opt for mercy.
Selah.
Gbu Dr
Cain was not only allowed by God to live, but was protected by God himself.
Korah and all of his supporters were executed by God.
Cain was marked and forced to be a vagabond and literally couldnt sustain himself unless he killed animals or took from someone else (strength can mean fruit) look at genesis 4:12 cain had a worser punishment than being killed, he was forced to wander and either kill animals or ask for handouts. Look at the words wanderer and vagabond, the root words indicate sorrow, and trembling/wandering. This indicating his punishment was worse than a typical murderer who can hide from his conscience and the sorrow of his actions, wereas cain was forced to live in it till the day he died a natural or at least a unmurdered death.
I have always been in favor of capital punishment, but only as a last resort. While no one is beyond the reach of Jesus, not everyone He reaches actually wants what He has to offer. Sadly, there are those in our world who are content in their evilness, and have no desire to be reformed. Among those individuals are they who are far too dangerous to be left alive, considering the threat they pose to others. I support the death penalty in such cases, when a person has zero desire to reform, even when offered by Jesus Himself, and is also too dangerous to remain alive among those he or she could hurt.
No. No judicial system could perfect the will of God unless it was God Himself. That would be the logic of the Judeo-Christian God.
Contending with providing justice on earth, that’s a task humans must take on.
I'm one of the Christians who would respectfully disagree. Dr. Bernard surfaced most of the points I'd disagree on, which shows good perspective on the issue.
The way I understand it, the death penalty was enacted as a deterrent to crime. Since, though, it's become a matter of revenge. Also, the implications of executing innocent people considered, we can see that government isn't responsible enough to make such decisions. Also, there is the fact that government can wield that power unjustly. Knowing that we have a Bible mandate to obey the laws of the land (except where they conflict with the Bible), this thinking would cause a dilemma. If the government said that breaking a small, non-religious law was worthy of capital punishment, are we bound to honor that ruling? If it's right in God's sight that we object at that point, where is the line drawn, definitively?
It's rather telling, I feel, when Christians favor the death penalty but conscientously object to being the ones carrying it out. At that point, they tend to recognize that it's ending a life and a person's chance to repent and find their way to God. But, they're fine with vocalizing the opinion, just not seeing it through. I personally would neither want to do it, nor to promote it. In our 21st century society, the court of public opinion still holds some weight.
Great discussion though, I'll be sharing with some friends who aren't Christians.
The cities of refuge were made because God understood the innocent manslayer, and how people would try to kill him, though he did not mean to kill. I think this helps believers to understand that God has a specific idea of who is worthy of death. Deuteronomy 19:1-13 and 15-21 deals witnessess and judgement
My father said something to me years ago that made me stop and think, and he said: "We kill ppl who kill ppl to teach ppl that killing is wrong," which by itself sounds hypocritical and that statement always stuck with me for some reason.
the bible says an eye for an eye , we are not allowed to murder someone premeditated, how can one walk away free when u plan someone's murder,and since DNA i dont think anyone is innocently accused
God Himself demanded it of us in Genesis because of the intrinsic value of human life. If you take a life, your life becomes forfit as payment for the life you took. Anything less would devalue the life that was taken.
@@Palmstreet-u7xthat's no always the case, I do support the death penalty but I also recognize that no one is made of better clay. There is always corruption as well as forensic scientists that screw things up. Anything could go wrong in the making of a case. Hence why we have defence attorneys.
All valid points, but I was simply saying that what my father said stuck in my head that's all because it's an oxymoron type of statement.
@@Palmstreet-u7xthat is incorrect application. Exodus 21:11-27 have to do with injury, not murder, and even gives exceptions to it. Furthermore, Jesus gave a different commandment in matthew 5:38-39 which, again, emphasizes personal injury, not murder.
I disagree with society. It's secular. Why would I agree with it?
Its not agreeing with it if you allow secular society to put justice on secular evil. Its not a theocracy so you can’t try to implement Christian mercy as if all the people are Christians or will be converted to Christianity. Otherwise, nobody would be murdering. Jesus didn’t outlaw justice.
In the USA civil society isn’t meant to be secular.
Please see evidence below 👇🏻.
North Carolina Constitution Preamble:
We, the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for the preservation of the American Union and the existence of our civil, political and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those blessings to us and our posterity, do, for the more certain security thereof and for the better government of this State, ordain and establish this Constitution.
This type of claim is made in all 51 Constitutions.
The Constitution of the United States of America Article 7:
done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,
They are clearly claiming JESUS is LORD in the federal Constitution.
The following shows how Biblical Principles are a necessity for good government and have been inshrined in America law. 👇🏻
Arizona State Constitution Article 2 “Declaration of Rights” Section 1:
Fundamental Principles; Recurrence to:
“A frequent recurrence to fundamental principles is essential to the security of individual rights and the perpetuity of free government.”
Wisconsin State Constitution Article I “Declaration of Rights” Section 22:
Maintenance of Free Government:
“The blessings of a free government can only be maintained by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality and virtue, and by frequent recurrence to fundamental principles.”
Maxim of Law: 51q. A frequent recurrence to fundamental principles, and a firm adherence to justice, virtue, and original law, are indispensably necessary to preserve the blessings of liberty and good government. American Maxim.
One more American maxim of law. 👇🏻
Maxim of Law: 51o. All political power is inherent in the people by decree of God, thus none can exist except it be derived from them. American Maxim.
All of the Above is Law in the USA. It’s our duty as the American People and more specifically as The Body of CHRIST to demand these principles be upheld by our trustees and servants within the government We the People created.
Text of Paragraph I:
Origin and Foundation of Government
All government, of right, originates with the people, is founded upon their will only, and is instituted solely for the good of the whole. Public officers are the trustees and servants of the people and are at all times amenable to them.
Missouri Constitution Article 1 Bill of Rights:
Text of Section 3:
Powers of the People over Internal Affairs, Constitution and Form of Government
That the people of this state have the inherent, sole and exclusive right to regulate the internal government and police thereof, and to alter and abolish their constitution and form of government whenever they may deem it necessary to their safety and happiness, provided such change be not repugnant to the Constitution of the United States.
🙏🇺🇸!
In JESUS Name! Amen!
The Bible states that "because sentence against an evil work is not speedily executed, the hearts of men are fully set in them to do evil". That being said, I worked for the Department of Corrections for 18 years. I believed in the validity of the death penalty because I have seen so many prisoners fake being rehabilitated and then get paroled and go out and commit another heinous crime against humanity. However, I myself could not serve on a jury where capital punishment was a possibility. I personally don't feel that I could condemn someone to death and not suffer the mental tortures of the damned because of it. Incidentally, if you have not viewed Bro. Bernard's message at Gen. Conf. 2023, "Consumed by Zeal", you have missed a masterpiece.
Understandable. But remember, its the job of the judge and government to oversee it, not the jury.
Listening. Thanks.
Under human government the law of Israel or Moses he had an Israelite stone to death for breaking the Sabbath
I will always be against the death penalty.
You are then always against God. You think you are more righteous than he is?
What happened to david?????
David was Monarch..
He should have been executed, but he wasn't because he was king (the corrupt government).
Brother Bernard, an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth is hypocritical. Pro-life is pro-life. Jesus does the judging we do not take any life, a murder a horrible evil person sits in consequences of penalty a prison for the rest of their days, then goes to God an gets to judge, like your cousin probably was saved. Glory to God for that! Jesus did not kill Saul he converted him into Paul. Pro-life is pro-life.
If you’re using the pro life argument and attempting to compare abortion with the death penalty for someone who’s committed murder and been found guilty by a jury of their peers; then your logic is flawed, because the baby is innocent.
🙏🇺🇸!
In JESUS Name! Amen!
Amen and Amen!!
Pro-life for all life. Every time. Always.
And that means no death penalty.
As an Apostolic American I’d like to address the idea of a “secular society”.
The fundamental principle that the USA is founded upon is that our inherent, inalienable, indubitable, indefeasible rights are granted to us individually by GOD; so therefore it’s impossible, even within our civil law, to claim something as a right if it violates GOD’S law.
🙏🇺🇸!
In JESUS Name! Amen!
I'm in Sweden, and NOT in the U S. Thank God!
Why do upc senior citizens retire into financiL embarrassment and dissappear from the church for ever????? I spent 25 years in the military and got all over the U.s.a . The 65ers mostly made ends meet . Young widows who lost their husband's early in life struggled the rest of their life or until they found a new husband. .. talking about the day after retirement.
What the heck are you talking about lol
Probably talking when senior citizen goes into a retirement home
Your statement is not correct