I don't agree with CGC's cleaning can be construed as restoration. If I may make an analogy - If a classic car was pulled out of a barn after 30 years and covered in filth. Then it gets sent to a detailer and has a deep cleaning done which includes the paint getting buffed so that it looks new and vibrant. Would that car be considered to be restored? Most would say NO, unless there were things replaced or the car was repainted. That's basically what is being done to the comics with the cleaning and pressing process. That's just the way I feel about it.
CGC has some nerve. Cleaning a book is not restoration. This company has been way out of lines for years. Sorry they flagged your books. Good content, and thanks for explaining why they did.
@@jamesross824 We will be having this same debate forever, and it will be a matter of degrees and slightly imperfect analogies. But still a fun discussion. Yes, it has to do with the dollar value of the collectible. Maybe or maybe not greed depending on the motivation. I think of it this way. If you clean and wax your car, you are not restoring it. You are conserving the finish on your car so it continues to look good and last longer. If you fix sun or rust damage on the surface finish, then that is restoration. Cleaning a book is good. Making it noticeably whiter than it likely originally started out is not. And patina is that word you use when you have a lot of exposure to something and what is before you just does not look right to your experience.
@michaelmayrend313 So pulling out the staples and cleaning them, so they won't cause any further damage to the book. Would that be restoration? Being an artist, restoration is used all the time to persevere artwork. I don't consider cleaning a book restoration. Replacing pages, color touch-ups, rebinding a torn book, cutting the edges offs, and kit bashing a book is restoration for a comic book. Techniques such as pressing, dry cleaning, tape removal, or any other process that only removes foreign substance is not considered restoration. I am not an attorney, but removing dirt and stains from a book should not be considered restoration. Like this guy said, everyone has different opinions on what restoration is.
@@comicbookgallery4431 I agree with your points. I would also like to add that the uniqueness for an encased/slabbed comic book is that high value comic books can not be fully appraised between each purchase without breaking them out of the case. The comic is not quite an artwork, and not quite a collectible - but a little of both. Good discussion, thank you.
Both of the methods mentioned can be completed using distilled water and B-Led's. h2o2 is just quicker and degrades into h2o under bluelight, heat and oxygen. Is light exposure restoration ? Is humidity restoration? These are environmental factors. Clearly no they are not. Why is it that controlled applications of both restoration? Rant over.
Doesn't natural exposure to light make things like paintings/ comic books fade or yellow over time. So brightening with light, peroxide would seem un-natural, therefore it must be restorative. I do think that Thor issue looks fantastic tho
Thank you Chris Trump, groundbreaking development! I'm gonna watch the side-by-side video, but I'm curious about what you do to ensure not overdoing it with the hydrogen peroxide/distilled water solution on the HOP?
Great video. I'm on the fence with the BLED process and it is certainly a controversial form of restoration. It would be good for CGC to have a consistent view of this like they have with cleaning and pressing, so we as a collecting community can move forward. I'd like to improve my books with this method, but won't be experimenting until we have that certainty. I suspect BLED won't be widely accepted until CGC offer that service themselves.
I'm not into grading comics so my questions comes from a genuine interest in knowing: if you do the whitening and the pressing and all that to get a book looking as new as possible, and let's say it's a book that's a pretty old (50's, 60's) so my question is: would the restored book not get a higher grade than the untreated book? If the idea is to get a book in its best condition possible vs a book that looks its age which one would a collector want the most?
Typically restored books do grade higher. Most collectors prefer “universal” (unrestored) books. But the distinction is more subtle in reality… which is the point of the video.
The truth is, I don’t have anything against what you do but everything you do is restoration to some degree so if you get mad you get one purple label after a two grade bump on another book I don’t see why you’d be upset
I worked.on 40 silver age Xmens for about 2 months before sending them in. It was my first time working on older books and first time doing HOP and BLED. I thought I did pretty well on them until I got them back. 15 were purple label "cover cleaned" and I was so pissed. After cracking them all back out to resubmit I noticed leftover streaks of ImmacuClean, especially in the solid color and dark areas. I've since cleaned and resubmitted them (in smaller batches this time) and am waiting for the results. Hoping to get all blue labels and recoop some of my costs. Live and learn I guess.
I was considering blue light peroxide but went against the technique because it makes the book unnaturally bone white. I know I lack the necessary experience to make the book passable as normal white for its age. This technique is definitely more art than science.
I use the techniques sparingly. One of my customers was dinged with 3 purples on silver age books last year when CGC decided to beat on everyone. Now, I look over the book very carefully and imagine how it's gonna work and will it still match the rest of the book (tanning/ whatever). No one has been dinged this year (thank god), but, you do have to be very selective on how much you do...Great video.
So what happens is that little bumps happen after wet wet cleaning, move fast and efficiently! If you can’t do it in one go, press, clean, humidify and repeat you really only get 30-45 seconds when wet cleaning, maybe 2 swipes of the same area. I can always tell if a cover has been cleaned, little white or other colored tiny dots all over the book! Always try to dry wipe as much first, with reasonable pressure. If you have any questions reach out! I’m happy to help!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Joe! I too have been guilty of over-whitening a book usually as a result of repeatedly trying to get a stain or tanning out. Now, I feel it's ok (and better) to leave some flaws on the book even if it causes a slightly lower grade. I've also been realizing that a few HOP treatments will pull enough yellow out of a book to where I don't even need the BLED process. It's a nice middle ground between "dingy and bone white." 😁
Dont feel bad, i've had this happen on 2 of my books about 2 months ago. Funny part is i cracked them back open and sent them back in and both magically got a blue label with nothing done to them. Was a serious facepalm in my mind
@@TopComicsPressing The crinkling you mentioned, i agree it is a major tell and difficult to remove once its in there. sometimes ill try and dry the book out a bit and put it back in the press when i catch it and comes out. One book i have found that is notorious for it is the ASM 238 when doing a HOP to it which i try to avoid due to this reason as even with barely any wetness to the overlay it still happens. In your opinion you think adding more pressure to the book during the press would prevent the crinkling look from happening?
@@TopComicsPressing apperciate it and yea, it was something I like to avoid. While I am able to prevent damage to them. It’s something I still like to avoid.
I don't agree with CGC's cleaning can be construed as restoration. If I may make an analogy - If a classic car was pulled out of a barn after 30 years and covered in filth. Then it gets sent to a detailer and has a deep cleaning done which includes the paint getting buffed so that it looks new and vibrant. Would that car be considered to be restored? Most would say NO, unless there were things replaced or the car was repainted. That's basically what is being done to the comics with the cleaning and pressing process. That's just the way I feel about it.
CGC should be more concerned with cleaning up their house and not whether you clean your books.
CGC has some nerve. Cleaning a book is not restoration. This company has been way out of lines for years.
Sorry they flagged your books.
Good content, and thanks for explaining why they did.
Cleaning is absolutely restoration.You guys killed the hobby and for what?Greed.
@@jamesross824 We will be having this same debate forever, and it will be a matter of degrees and slightly imperfect analogies. But still a fun discussion. Yes, it has to do with the dollar value of the collectible. Maybe or maybe not greed depending on the motivation. I think of it this way. If you clean and wax your car, you are not restoring it. You are conserving the finish on your car so it continues to look good and last longer. If you fix sun or rust damage on the surface finish, then that is restoration. Cleaning a book is good. Making it noticeably whiter than it likely originally started out is not. And patina is that word you use when you have a lot of exposure to something and what is before you just does not look right to your experience.
@michaelmayrend313 So pulling out the staples and cleaning them, so they won't cause any further damage to the book. Would that be restoration? Being an artist, restoration is used all the time to persevere artwork. I don't consider cleaning a book restoration. Replacing pages, color touch-ups, rebinding a torn book, cutting the edges offs, and kit bashing a book is restoration for a comic book.
Techniques such as pressing, dry cleaning, tape removal, or any other process that only removes foreign substance is not considered restoration.
I am not an attorney, but removing dirt and stains from a book should not be considered restoration.
Like this guy said, everyone has different opinions on what restoration is.
@@jamesross824No. Not true. Your feelings aren't facts.
@@comicbookgallery4431 I agree with your points. I would also like to add that the uniqueness for an encased/slabbed comic book is that high value comic books can not be fully appraised between each purchase without breaking them out of the case. The comic is not quite an artwork, and not quite a collectible - but a little of both. Good discussion, thank you.
It’s not restoration. Send it to cbcs
I really like your matter of fact approach to the cover clean process.
Thanks 🙏
Both of the methods mentioned can be completed using distilled water and B-Led's. h2o2 is just quicker and degrades into h2o under bluelight, heat and oxygen.
Is light exposure restoration ?
Is humidity restoration?
These are environmental factors. Clearly no they are not.
Why is it that controlled applications of both restoration?
Rant over.
Doesn't natural exposure to light make things like paintings/ comic books fade or yellow over time. So brightening with light, peroxide would seem un-natural, therefore it must be restorative. I do think that Thor issue looks fantastic tho
Appreciate the video.
Thanks for watching!
Thank you Chris Trump, groundbreaking development! I'm gonna watch the side-by-side video, but I'm curious about what you do to ensure not overdoing it with the hydrogen peroxide/distilled water solution on the HOP?
Has more to do w how much tanning there is initially
Rusty Staples are my greatest enemy....... I'm still trying to figure out how to get rid of it tbh lol
You and me both
Great video. I'm on the fence with the BLED process and it is certainly a controversial form of restoration. It would be good for CGC to have a consistent view of this like they have with cleaning and pressing, so we as a collecting community can move forward. I'd like to improve my books with this method, but won't be experimenting until we have that certainty. I suspect BLED won't be widely accepted until CGC offer that service themselves.
There is the truth - once CGC offers it it will be ok
I'm not into grading comics so my questions comes from a genuine interest in knowing: if you do the whitening and the pressing and all that to get a book looking as new as possible, and let's say it's a book that's a pretty old (50's, 60's) so my question is: would the restored book not get a higher grade than the untreated book?
If the idea is to get a book in its best condition possible vs a book that looks its age which one would a collector want the most?
Typically restored books do grade higher. Most collectors prefer “universal” (unrestored) books. But the distinction is more subtle in reality… which is the point of the video.
*_By now, CGC has flagged your account and they will ALWAYS x2 or x3 check your books._*
*_So you'll need a new CGC account every 3-6 months._*
You did not watch the video did you?
The truth is, I don’t have anything against what you do but everything you do is restoration to some degree so if you get mad you get one purple label after a two grade bump on another book I don’t see why you’d be upset
If you watched the video - you would know I was not upset at any one instance. I am attempting to provide guidance on what could/should be labeled
I worked.on 40 silver age Xmens for about 2 months before sending them in. It was my first time working on older books and first time doing HOP and BLED. I thought I did pretty well on them until I got them back. 15 were purple label "cover cleaned" and I was so pissed. After cracking them all back out to resubmit I noticed leftover streaks of ImmacuClean, especially in the solid color and dark areas. I've since cleaned and resubmitted them (in smaller batches this time) and am waiting for the results. Hoping to get all blue labels and recoop some of my costs. Live and learn I guess.
I was considering blue light peroxide but went against the technique because it makes the book unnaturally bone white. I know I lack the necessary experience to make the book passable as normal white for its age. This technique is definitely more art than science.
I agree
It can be done reproducibly. It just takes practice as with anything.
I use the techniques sparingly. One of my customers was dinged with 3 purples on silver age books last year when CGC decided to beat on everyone. Now, I look over the book very carefully and imagine how it's gonna work and will it still match the rest of the book (tanning/ whatever). No one has been dinged this year (thank god), but, you do have to be very selective on how much you do...Great video.
So what happens is that little bumps happen after wet wet cleaning, move fast and efficiently! If you can’t do it in one go, press, clean, humidify and repeat you really only get 30-45 seconds when wet cleaning, maybe 2 swipes of the same area. I can always tell if a cover has been cleaned, little white or other colored tiny dots all over the book!
Always try to dry wipe as much first, with reasonable pressure. If you have any questions reach out! I’m happy to help!
Seems to me that if you can press and clean a book it shouldn’t matter the method.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Joe! I too have been guilty of over-whitening a book usually as a result of repeatedly trying to get a stain or tanning out. Now, I feel it's ok (and better) to leave some flaws on the book even if it causes a slightly lower grade. I've also been realizing that a few HOP treatments will pull enough yellow out of a book to where I don't even need the BLED process. It's a nice middle ground between "dingy and bone white." 😁
Yeah def don’t do both on same book
Sounds like restoration to me.
To me cleaning is not restoration. Bleaching is definitely restoration.
This channel is very informative!!! 😃
Glad you think so!
Dont feel bad, i've had this happen on 2 of my books about 2 months ago. Funny part is i cracked them back open and sent them back in and both magically got a blue label with nothing done to them. Was a serious facepalm in my mind
I also converted several back to blue. Def worth attempting if no major tells
@@TopComicsPressing The crinkling you mentioned, i agree it is a major tell and difficult to remove once its in there. sometimes ill try and dry the book out a bit and put it back in the press when i catch it and comes out.
One book i have found that is notorious for it is the ASM 238 when doing a HOP to it which i try to avoid due to this reason as even with barely any wetness to the overlay it still happens. In your opinion you think adding more pressure to the book during the press would prevent the crinkling look from happening?
Yes - but I would never hop a ASM 238 due to tatts
@@TopComicsPressing apperciate it and yea, it was something I like to avoid. While I am able to prevent damage to them. It’s something I still like to avoid.
Thanks for a very informative video!
My pleasure!