Thank you, Peter, for your generous sharing of knowledge and experience about the Zorn palette. You are, clearly, a gifted painter and teacher. Much appreciated!
Thank you for that interesting color wheel, I had not seen it done like that hitherto. My problem with the Zorn Palette is that other than the yellow ochre, I am never all that confident we even have the colors Zorn was using. The biggest issue is the nature of the black he used. Ivory black is said to have had an actual blue tone to it. But nothing like true ivory black exists any longer. Then he used Vermilion, and lead white, which is a transparent white. Even if we have colors that look on a swatch like a few of the colors he used, the modern variants do not mix the same, or have the same transparency. Which is kinda important when it comes to having 4 colors to mix from, should they not mix and play together authentically. Still a great exercise palette, but getting authentic results is testing.
You're right as the colours we use today will always be slightly different from the ones used decades ago. The colours I'm using here are the closest comparisons to what Zorn often used in his work.
Fascinating! I just watched another video where the artist painted using the Zorn palette and I couldn't understand where all the blue and green came from but this video explains it perfectly. Subscribed!
Actually, when he died, several tubes of Cobalt Blue were found. And on his palette there were traces of Cadmium Yellow and Viridian Green. So although the so called Zorn palette is described as 4 colors only, is a bit misleading. He did use those 4 colors in every painting those were his... let's say "sigmature" colors, but he did use blue, yellow, and green, when needed. So yes, no surprise he used some Cobalt Blue to achieve that violet. 😊
Yes of course, a big misconception of Zorn is that he only used these 4 colours. He of course used others where needed (like your observation) but where possible he kept it to a minimum.
I had never seen anyone use a mixed black for the blue, rather than pure black. That was helpful and makes perfect sense. I was toying with the idea of mixing a chromatic black and making it lean toward blue. Perhaps that would be cheating a bit but isn't that what the term "artistic license" is for?
Gambin IB skews blue. MH is a brown black. I use Mars black. All Mars colors and most earth colors are synthetic iron oxide, heated like roasting coffee, a certain time and temp. BUT: they like each other. Its more about how the pigments work with each other. Unless you paint wet on dry. Wet on wet, you want to use colors in a pigment family or you get not just mud but funky pukey colors
I read an article by Natalie Richy that he had an extended palette using cobalt blue and burnt sienna which he added to the black for a warm and cool black. Cheers.
Hello there. I have enjoyed this video.very much. Thx for it. But I'm really confused. Everywhere I look, Ivory Black, is described as a warm black. Lamp Black as a cool black, and Mars Black as leaning towards the warmer side. The thing is that I was looking to buy the Ivory Black from Sennelier Oil Pastels, but they only sell one called Black and Lamp Black. I remembered you saying Ivory Black is a cool black so I read .the descriptions looking for the one that was a cool black. One thing led to another, and at the end, I started reading about the differences between blacks, and I am yet to find, Ivory Black described as cool. Could you help me here? Is Ivory Black different in oils?! Is that it? Among al the things I read, I decided to copy/paste this paragraph, so you can see the info I have been finding... "Mars Black: Slightly warm in its tint, this leanest (more matte) black dries quickly. Mars Black has approximately three times the tinting strength of other blacks and is very opaque. Carbon Black pigment is formed from partial combustion of natural gas and is a nearly pure form of carbon. It is the strongest black has a slightly cool undertone. Bone Black, an ancient colour is formed from the burning bones, where impurities provide a slightly warmer undertone. Lamp Black is a semi-opaque black with a cool, blue undertone. It is great when you want bluer shades and cool blue greys. Ivory Black is a warm, all around great black. Add Ivory Black to warm colours to maintain a warm colour temperature. Attrament black a greenish tinted warm black."
Great question Vey and I have also gone around in circles about which is the so called ‘best’ black to use for this technique. After speaking to Michael Harding and other oil paint manufacturers in the UK they were in agreement that Ivory black would be considered the coolest compared to the other black paints. Zorn would have used traditional Ivory black as well (using actual Ivory instead of animal bones used today) which would have looked slightly cooler still. However, it’s a good point to remember that colour temperature is always relative and changes drastically according to what you compared it to. I would presume that the same ‘which is the best black’ question for pastels would provide the same answer as paints however, as I’m not a pastel artist, Im no authority on that.
I am thinking about trying the Zorn palette with the schmincke Norma blue oil paints, but they don’t have ivory black. Would paynesgrey maybe also do it?
A small correction, Peter; he did not use titanium white, as it was only developed in the 1910s and started being used only in the 1920s. He probably used lead white, for which zinc is a good replacement nowadays. Very neat video nonetheless!
No. Lead is green gray. It is highly reflective where you get that glow. Look at Whistlers Compositions 1 & 2. He got lead poisoning from those two. Starry Night? Vincent had lead poisoning. That's what he actually saw. Look up lead poisoning. Vincent used Lead white and Lead Tin yellow
White was chalk, red and yellow were ochre, black was charcoal. Neanderthals used this. The Romans accidentally discovered flake white because they ate and drank off pewter, which is Lead & Tin. The wine oxidized the lead. The vinegar & manure flake white came later. Ivory used to be tusks, but today is cow bones
Zorn didn't use Titanium white, which wasn't invented until the 1910s. If you're going to make a point of the importance of the cool black vs. warm black, then ignoring the warm white that Zorn used vs. cool titanium white seems questionable.
LEAD is dificult to get now for safety reasons. One tube of MH Flake Lead is $110+ in the US which has less restrictions than UK or EU. Look up the rules for Lead White in the UK. He also mentions Vermillion is also hard to get. MH vermillion is the only authentic one and is again $110+ in the US with few restrictions.
@@gregorygarcia1754 I understand. Still, I think it should be mentioned. As an aside, MH Stack Lead is on sale at Blick (in U.S.) right now for $85 a tube. It's backordered, and I have no idea if it will actually ever show up, or where else to get it. Or if it's actually good. Hope so.
Ohhh, you don't like it?!!!! Wow! Then something must be done, cause you don't like it! 🤔🤔 Here's an idea!!! Don't watch it then, cause the world doesn't revolve around YOUR likes. 🙄 🥱🥱🥱🥱 Waste of time explaining u this, anyway.
Wow, Thank You! It's the first time I see somebody explain Zorn palete so well 😄. I'm so thankfull❤
I forgot you existed! I miss your podcast!
The very best I have seen on Zorn Palette very well done thank you !!!!
This was the best explanation and demo of the Zorn palette for portraiture. Thank you so much! I’ve bookmarked this. 🎉
Thank you so much. New videos coming on my channel very soon!
Love this no nonsense approach. Very stimulating.
Best tutorial series ever on youtube.
Thank you so much. New videos coming on my channel very soon!
Thank you for your so generously share your knowledge, clear explanation and this serie step for step tutorials on oil portraits with Zorn Palette.
Wow! this page is widely underrated
Thank you, Peter, for your generous sharing of knowledge and experience about the Zorn palette. You are, clearly, a gifted painter and teacher. Much appreciated!
Thank you Peter this is a pleasure to watch and learn!
Very impressive indeed. Thank you.
This is a wonderful demonstration. Thank you for the time and trouble you have gone to in order this information more understandable.
Really useful and practical - thanks
Thank you ! Wonderful explanation.
You are welcome!
the simplest on youtube ! subbed
Thank you for that interesting color wheel, I had not seen it done like that hitherto.
My problem with the Zorn Palette is that other than the yellow ochre, I am never all that confident we even have the colors Zorn was using. The biggest issue is the nature of the black he used. Ivory black is said to have had an actual blue tone to it. But nothing like true ivory black exists any longer.
Then he used Vermilion, and lead white, which is a transparent white. Even if we have colors that look on a swatch like a few of the colors he used, the modern variants do not mix the same, or have the same transparency. Which is kinda important when it comes to having 4 colors to mix from, should they not mix and play together authentically.
Still a great exercise palette, but getting authentic results is testing.
You're right as the colours we use today will always be slightly different from the ones used decades ago. The colours I'm using here are the closest comparisons to what Zorn often used in his work.
@@peterkeeganartist3135@peterkeeganartist3135 Hello: There is a Blue-Black from Da Vinci paints that makes the palette perfect!
True, but if you try modern versions of these colours, with care, you can still achieve incredible results.
Great tutorial. Thanks Peter!
Thank you so much. New videos coming on my channel very soon!
Fascinating! I just watched another video where the artist painted using the Zorn palette and I couldn't understand where all the blue and green came from but this video explains it perfectly. Subscribed!
One of the best videos about the zorn palette.
Thank you very much.
I feel fortunate to find you mr. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for watching
I made a Zorn color wheel with like 40 different "colors" it is honestly one of the best things I've ever made haha
Completely agree, such a versatile colour palette, especially for figurative work.
Just found you. I love your no nonsense filming set up and succinct explanations! Subbed.
Brillant, thank you for watching
This was so amazing! Thank you
You're welcome, thank you for watching
Great Teacher. Thank you for that lesson!
You're welcome, thank you
Fascinating thankyou
0:52 seems like he * must * have introduced at least a touch of blue to get the violet blossoms on the dress.
Actually, when he died, several tubes of Cobalt Blue were found. And on his palette there were traces of Cadmium Yellow and Viridian Green. So although the so called Zorn palette is described as 4 colors only, is a bit misleading. He did use those 4 colors in every painting those were his... let's say "sigmature" colors, but he did use blue, yellow, and green, when needed.
So yes, no surprise he used some Cobalt Blue to achieve that violet. 😊
Yes of course, a big misconception of Zorn is that he only used these 4 colours. He of course used others where needed (like your observation) but where possible he kept it to a minimum.
Awesome teaching I am subscribing! Thanks
this video was so useful for me thank you so much and please make more and long portrait painting videos
Thank you so much. New videos coming on my channel very soon!
I had never seen anyone use a mixed black for the blue, rather than pure black. That was helpful and makes perfect sense. I was toying with the idea of mixing a chromatic black and making it lean toward blue. Perhaps that would be cheating a bit but isn't that what the term "artistic license" is for?
Absolutely - I fully endorse learning by doing - I think it's all about what works for you - give it a go and see how you get on.
Gambin IB skews blue. MH is a brown black. I use Mars black. All Mars colors and most earth colors are synthetic iron oxide, heated like roasting coffee, a certain time and temp. BUT: they like each other. Its more about how the pigments work with each other. Unless you paint wet on dry. Wet on wet, you want to use colors in a pigment family or you get not just mud but funky pukey colors
Fantastic really interesting
I read an article by Natalie Richy that he had an extended palette using cobalt blue and burnt sienna which he added to the black for a warm and cool black.
Cheers.
Huge help... Thanks!
Ti white came into consumption in 1921 after zorn's death...so wouldn't a basic lead white be better for the palette , as ti white is quite cold ?
Lead white is toxic and banned in many countries.
Great and to point overview! The Zorn color wheel puts a good perspective on what we are up to, should we use this 🎨!
Thank you for your feedback, glad you found it helpful
I'm very new to painting. Should I try the Zorn Pallete or is it more advanced?
Works for me, thank you :)
You're welcome!
Hello there. I have enjoyed this video.very much. Thx for it. But I'm really confused. Everywhere I look, Ivory Black, is described as a warm black. Lamp Black as a cool black, and Mars Black as leaning towards the warmer side.
The thing is that I was looking to buy the Ivory Black from Sennelier Oil Pastels, but they only sell one called Black and Lamp Black. I remembered you saying Ivory Black is a cool black so I read .the descriptions looking for the one that was a cool black. One thing led to another, and at the end, I started reading about the differences between blacks, and I am yet to find, Ivory Black described as cool.
Could you help me here? Is Ivory Black different in oils?! Is that it?
Among al the things I read, I decided to copy/paste this paragraph, so you can see the info I have been finding...
"Mars Black: Slightly warm in its tint, this leanest (more matte) black dries quickly. Mars Black has approximately three times the tinting strength of other blacks and is very opaque.
Carbon Black pigment is formed from partial combustion of natural gas and is a nearly pure form of carbon. It is the strongest black has a slightly cool undertone.
Bone Black, an ancient colour is formed from the burning bones, where impurities provide a slightly warmer undertone.
Lamp Black is a semi-opaque black with a cool, blue undertone. It is great when you want bluer shades and cool blue greys.
Ivory Black is a warm, all around great black. Add Ivory Black to warm colours to maintain a warm colour temperature.
Attrament black a greenish tinted warm black."
Great question Vey and I have also gone around in circles about which is the so called ‘best’ black to use for this technique. After speaking to Michael Harding and other oil paint manufacturers in the UK they were in agreement that Ivory black would be considered the coolest compared to the other black paints. Zorn would have used traditional Ivory black as well (using actual Ivory instead of animal bones used today) which would have looked slightly cooler still.
However, it’s a good point to remember that colour temperature is always relative and changes drastically according to what you compared it to. I would presume that the same ‘which is the best black’ question for pastels would provide the same answer as paints however, as I’m not a pastel artist, Im no authority on that.
@@peterkeeganartist3135 thank u so much for your answer! Highly appreciated! 🥰
hello sir love your works can i use pyrolle red instead of cadnium red in zorn palette?
White is being employed in almost every mixture. Isn’t that affecting color quality in the means of vibrancy? How do you address this?
Is that a yellow ochre py43 or a yellow oxide py42. ? Some manufacturers aren't too particular about how they name colours.
Very interesting.
Thank you, brilliant
Thank you
I am thinking about trying the Zorn palette with the schmincke Norma blue oil paints, but they don’t have ivory black. Would paynesgrey maybe also do it?
It's worth trying. I've seen other people mix payne's grey and yellow to make a whole range or gorgeous greens.
Master of zorn
No blue?
A small correction, Peter; he did not use titanium white, as it was only developed in the 1910s and started being used only in the 1920s. He probably used lead white, for which zinc is a good replacement nowadays. Very neat video nonetheless!
No. Lead is green gray. It is highly reflective where you get that glow. Look at Whistlers Compositions 1 & 2. He got lead poisoning from those two. Starry Night? Vincent had lead poisoning. That's what he actually saw. Look up lead poisoning. Vincent used Lead white and Lead Tin yellow
Actually this tetrachrome palette us basically the palette of Polygnotus used by the ancient Greeks and Byzantine Iconographers.
White was chalk, red and yellow were ochre, black was charcoal. Neanderthals used this. The Romans accidentally discovered flake white because they ate and drank off pewter, which is Lead & Tin. The wine oxidized the lead. The vinegar & manure flake white came later. Ivory used to be tusks, but today is cow bones
Zorn didn't use Titanium white, which wasn't invented until the 1910s. If you're going to make a point of the importance of the cool black vs. warm black, then ignoring the warm white that Zorn used vs. cool titanium white seems questionable.
LEAD is dificult to get now for safety reasons. One tube of MH Flake Lead is $110+ in the US which has less restrictions than UK or EU. Look up the rules for Lead White in the UK. He also mentions Vermillion is also hard to get. MH vermillion is the only authentic one and is again $110+ in the US with few restrictions.
@@gregorygarcia1754 I understand. Still, I think it should be mentioned. As an aside, MH Stack Lead is on sale at Blick (in U.S.) right now for $85 a tube. It's backordered, and I have no idea if it will actually ever show up, or where else to get it. Or if it's actually good. Hope so.
Great video, but need to click away, there is an ad shown every few minutes :(
maybe he didnt see blue, or some funny eye problem like that
He did use other colurs among them cobolt blue, but he seems to have used the Zorn pallette for portraites.
You could draw pictures with mustard, ketchup and toothpaste.
Zorn Palette,Zorn Palette,Zorn Palette,Zorn Palette... . Can anyone stop this pandemic? And largely overrated.
Ohhh, you don't like it?!!!!
Wow! Then something must be done, cause you don't like it!
🤔🤔 Here's an idea!!! Don't watch it then, cause the world doesn't revolve around YOUR likes. 🙄
🥱🥱🥱🥱 Waste of time explaining u this, anyway.
Wym overrated??
There is absolutely nothing bad about using a blue oil paint.
Thank you ! Wonderful explanation.
You're welcome, thank you for watching