The 250 Columbo V12 is a work of art, so far ahead of it's time. The roller rockers are a thing of beauty, amazing design. These engines remind me of a whole lot of work !! Great video, thanks. FWIW, you are correct regarding the 4 cam headers, the pipes run all the way to the collector, 2 cam goes 3 into 1 before the collector. Once again, 4 cam headers reminding me of lots of cussing and frustration...
Sadly soon all gas cars will be banned in EU and USA! In France they have a new banning law for ICE cars called SCHLABOUBVE and in Switzerland the HESCHLAVVO law! In Scandinavian countries soon there will be a so called SMORVERBIDEN law. In Germany from 2027 the new BABVVO and TEBBVO laws by the green peoples party will bann all gas cars from public streets only exception will be professional commuter trips and state-certified transports)!!!
Great film Tom and really useful information. If you ever have the opportunity would love to see a comparison between the Tipo 251 Daytona engine and the F101 GTC4 engine and how they differ? Also re engine numbers on the Daytona. As I understand it early Daytonas had the engine number stamped on the plate on the steering column. Ferrari did away with this practice in 1971/72 not exactly sure when? It seems some cars around this time had the plate with the engine number part left blank which confuses people a bit.
Hi Matthew, I have two Daytonas at my shop and one has the engine number on the steering column and the other does not. Makes for confirming matching numbers even harder. The biggest difference between the 365GTB/4 engine and the GTC/4 engine is the timing chain layout. It’s not obvious externally, but internally the GTB/4 has a shorter chain and gears, while the GTC/4 has a chain that does it all.
You have to hit the picture of you actually to have the video play in RUclips. Not the missing RUclips logo. I’d love to see the internals of a gte 250 engine compared to a same but different swb or similar 250 engine. Or a 300 rave engine internals compared to a consumer 330 engine.
It’s rare that I have a couple of assembled engines next to each other, let alone a disassembled ones! The differences are really in the camshaft profiles and carburetors.
@@tomyangnet so all you’d need to make a gte like a gto is a different cam shaft? And a bigger carb? You’d think there would be quite a bit of that with lusso’s and pf coupes if that was it.
@@yaluaka I was talking about the street cars. Ferrari did all sorts of things with the comp cars, and made running changes. I haven’t built a comp motor yet, but I know there were internal differences.
The Ferrari number scheme sounds a lot like the early Nisan or Datsun stuff. if you had a "matching numbers" car you were lucky! One month they would build 1600 engines, and the next month 200, then 1000 engines, then 500, etc. So you don't usually have a car with the same chassis & engine serial number, unlike the American factories. They didn't keep records either, so there's no way to verify if the engine belongs in your chassis.
Ferrari's system from what I understand built completed engines with an internal number that was stamped on each block up to the point when the engine was run on a dynamometer. As the cars were assembled, they took the completed engine and "married" it to chassis by stamping the chassis number on the engine that was next in line. The sequential internal numbers don't always match up to chassis numbers, but are close in manufacture dates. They actually still have these largely complete records in Italy.
Great video. I've wondered how these intricate and kind of delicate looking engines could be winners in a 12 or 24 hour race. Maybe because from the top looking in the engine bay, the engineering is hidden. Their race record speaks for itself.
There was a certain amount of redundancy built into these engines. Two ignition coils, two distributors, 4 sets of points, timed to run two 6 cylinder engines together as a V12. If any of these systems failed, they could limp back to the pits. The early suspensions were crude and over engineered, but were durable and hard to break. Most of the battle of endurance racing is finishing!
@@tomyangnet It still amazes me that some competitors would drive across Europe to LeMans, run these cars flat out for 24 hrs, and then drive them home afterwards - tough cars indeed.
@@soidog5 Ferraris won these endurance races not only because they were fast, but also because they finished! That was one of the secrets to their success.
What are the weaknesses of each engine? Are there upgraded camshafts, valvetrain components, etc? On the early engines, weren't the heads equipped with siamese intake ports?
There are different upgrades for these Colombo designed engines, but the common weakness for the two valve engines was the valve guides and seals. A copper alloy guide was originally used, and the 250s did not have valve seals, which lead to excessive smoking by about 40-50K miles. All the two valve engines would start smoking by about 50K miles. The solution was to insert silicone bronze guides with modern viton valve seals. New valves and seats would also be done at this time. Many of the other modifications at for making more power which is always a balance of cost, durability and performance. Thanks for watching!
for the 250 engines, I think there were some so called inside spark plugs and some with outside spark plugs. Do you have pictures of these variants that you could show us? And why did they change? I mean for the later four cam engines, it makes sense to put the spark plugs in between the two cams, but why did they do one thing first and then another with the two cam engines? I think it was back in the time when they did the PF coupes. thanks!
The earlier inside plug engines had a few designs the factory changed including the valve springs. I know the inside plug engines had the potential to catch fire if there was a fuel leak from one of the carbs and fuel would drip down onto the ignition wires. Ferrari solved this by putting drip trays under each carburetor that drained onto the ground. Moving the ignition wires and plugs outside of the V-8 eliminated this problem. I rarely work on the early inside plug engines. Thanks for watching.
The Ferrari V-12 is timed like two 6 cylinder engines 60 degrees apart, so each distributor is dedicated to one bank. The Colombo V-12, tipo 168 being one of them, used a single chain to operate the valves and the flywheel has marks to indicate intake and exhaust marks. There a lot more nuances to getting everything synched, but when it's right, it beautifully smooth! thanks for watching
The 250 Columbo V12 is a work of art, so far ahead of it's time. The roller rockers are a thing of beauty, amazing design. These engines remind me of a whole lot of work !! Great video, thanks. FWIW, you are correct regarding the 4 cam headers, the pipes run all the way to the collector, 2 cam goes 3 into 1 before the collector. Once again, 4 cam headers reminding me of lots of cussing and frustration...
Getting those 4-cam headers to fit between the frame rails and connected is a struggle! I've been there too!
Sadly soon all gas cars will be banned in EU and USA! In France they have a new banning law for ICE cars called SCHLABOUBVE and in Switzerland the HESCHLAVVO law! In Scandinavian countries soon there will be a so called SMORVERBIDEN law. In Germany from 2027 the new BABVVO and TEBBVO laws by the green peoples party will bann all gas cars from public streets only exception will be professional commuter trips and state-certified transports)!!!
As always, a very informative and educational video Tom. Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with us!
You’re welcome!
Great film Tom and really useful information. If you ever have the opportunity would love to see a comparison between the Tipo 251 Daytona engine and the F101 GTC4 engine and how they differ? Also re engine numbers on the Daytona. As I understand it early Daytonas had the engine number stamped on the plate on the steering column. Ferrari did away with this practice in 1971/72 not exactly sure when? It seems some cars around this time had the plate with the engine number part left blank which confuses people a bit.
Hi Matthew, I have two Daytonas at my shop and one has the engine number on the steering column and the other does not. Makes for confirming matching numbers even harder.
The biggest difference between the 365GTB/4 engine and the GTC/4 engine is the timing chain layout. It’s not obvious externally, but internally the GTB/4 has a shorter chain and gears, while the GTC/4 has a chain that does it all.
Nice video again 👍 your videos are different than others and I like them !
I realize just like my blog, I work on things that most people never see, and it’s fun to share. Thanks for watching!
Very informative video Tom. Thanks for taking the time to make this.
Great video and timely for those of us are really "wanna be" mechanics.
All of your AV skills came clearly into focus...well done. steve meltzer
"I have 3 Ferrari engines here at the shop" lol words I thought I would never heard but so glad I have
I was kind of surprised too!
Just amazing inffo thankyou! Adds more knowlege to our basket,,,, when we find people like u!
You’re welcome. Happy to share. Thanks for watching!
As always, great information about the Ferraris history, big thanks for sharing and Happy New Year :)
Thanks for your kind words or support. I’m trying to balance interesting facts without boring everyone to death! Thanks for watching.
You have to hit the picture of you actually to have the video play in RUclips. Not the missing RUclips logo.
I’d love to see the internals of a gte 250 engine compared to a same but different swb or similar 250 engine. Or a 300 rave engine internals compared to a consumer 330 engine.
It’s rare that I have a couple of assembled engines next to each other, let alone a disassembled ones! The differences are really in the camshaft profiles and carburetors.
@@tomyangnet so all you’d need to make a gte like a gto is a different cam shaft? And a bigger carb? You’d think there would be quite a bit of that with lusso’s and pf coupes if that was it.
@@yaluaka I was talking about the street cars. Ferrari did all sorts of things with the comp cars, and made running changes. I haven’t built a comp motor yet, but I know there were internal differences.
Sadly the greens in Germany banned all gas cars from 2027 on
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
The new F1 cars need this engine!!!!!
At 1:28 you mention that: " ... 250 x 12 equals 4 liters ..." believe that you meant 3 liters.
Thanks for the catch! Thinking one thing and saying something else. Ooops.
Awesome, thank you!
You’re welcome and thanks for watching!
The Ferrari number scheme sounds a lot like the early Nisan or Datsun stuff. if you had a "matching numbers" car you were lucky! One month they would build 1600 engines, and the next month 200, then 1000 engines, then 500, etc. So you don't usually have a car with the same chassis & engine serial number, unlike the American factories.
They didn't keep records either, so there's no way to verify if the engine belongs in your chassis.
Ferrari's system from what I understand built completed engines with an internal number that was stamped on each block up to the point when the engine was run on a dynamometer. As the cars were assembled, they took the completed engine and "married" it to chassis by stamping the chassis number on the engine that was next in line. The sequential internal numbers don't always match up to chassis numbers, but are close in manufacture dates. They actually still have these largely complete records in Italy.
Helpful, thanks
Nice broom-brooms.
Great video. I've wondered how these intricate and kind of delicate looking engines could be winners in a 12 or 24 hour race. Maybe because from the top looking in the engine bay, the engineering is hidden. Their race record speaks for itself.
There was a certain amount of redundancy built into these engines. Two ignition coils, two distributors, 4 sets of points, timed to run two 6 cylinder engines together as a V12. If any of these systems failed, they could limp back to the pits. The early suspensions were crude and over engineered, but were durable and hard to break. Most of the battle of endurance racing is finishing!
@@tomyangnet It still amazes me that some competitors would drive across Europe to LeMans, run these cars flat out for 24 hrs, and then drive them home afterwards - tough cars indeed.
@@soidog5 Ferraris won these endurance races not only because they were fast, but also because they finished! That was one of the secrets to their success.
What are the weaknesses of each engine? Are there upgraded camshafts, valvetrain components, etc? On the early engines, weren't the heads equipped with siamese intake ports?
There are different upgrades for these Colombo designed engines, but the common weakness for the two valve engines was the valve guides and seals. A copper alloy guide was originally used, and the 250s did not have valve seals, which lead to excessive smoking by about 40-50K miles. All the two valve engines would start smoking by about 50K miles. The solution was to insert silicone bronze guides with modern viton valve seals. New valves and seats would also be done at this time. Many of the other modifications at for making more power which is always a balance of cost, durability and performance. Thanks for watching!
for the 250 engines, I think there were some so called inside spark plugs and some with outside spark plugs. Do you have pictures of these variants that you could show us? And why did they change? I mean for the later four cam engines, it makes sense to put the spark plugs in between the two cams, but why did they do one thing first and then another with the two cam engines? I think it was back in the time when they did the PF coupes. thanks!
The earlier inside plug engines had a few designs the factory changed including the valve springs. I know the inside plug engines had the potential to catch fire if there was a fuel leak from one of the carbs and fuel would drip down onto the ignition wires. Ferrari solved this by putting drip trays under each carburetor that drained onto the ground. Moving the ignition wires and plugs outside of the V-8 eliminated this problem. I rarely work on the early inside plug engines. Thanks for watching.
@@tomyangnet Thank you, Tom, for explaining, now I know :)
What I'd like to know is how did they manage the valve timing, and how did they synchronize the two different distributors on the tipo 168 engine.
The Ferrari V-12 is timed like two 6 cylinder engines 60 degrees apart, so each distributor is dedicated to one bank. The Colombo V-12, tipo 168 being one of them, used a single chain to operate the valves and the flywheel has marks to indicate intake and exhaust marks. There a lot more nuances to getting everything synched, but when it's right, it beautifully smooth! thanks for watching
But will it fit in a Miata?
Much cheaper alternatives for a Miata with a smaller package and more power, unless you're just looking for style points!
@@tomyangnet, I just want the sound. Bends me that car makers care more about power than sound and few cars outside of Italy sound that good.
@@THESocialJusticeWarrior the sound of that V-12 was the whole reason I spend every dime I had to buy a Ferrari all those years ago!