I live in a small town in the hills. I'm also 63 years old with severe heart failure. I ride my ebike everywhere, it's a matter of choosing the right bike for your environment and the 250w limit is fine, use your gears with forethought and pop up through the assist modes as necessary. I get up hills I could never hope to ride a normal bike up, even in my youth and without lifting my bum off the saddle.
Yes and I am 72 years old and load my Raleigh with 2 panniers of heavy shopping and encounter a steep hill on the way back . Bike is fine going up hill with pedal assist . Also my bike is 8 speed hub gear.
Hello to you, I also have heart failure and COPD and would love an eBike. Can you tell me what power and other numbers I should be looking out for, if anyone can help I'd be truly Grateful. Thanks then. Quentin
The rules on max power, throttles etc. could be tweaked slightly, but remember that unlike other powered vehicles, ebikes require no licence, tax or insurance. An exception is made for them as they're not supposed to be any faster than a fit person would be on a normal pedal bike. The power restriction is intended to make them safe to use without any training and to allow them to mix safely with pedal cycles. Remember that ebikes have the privilege of using cycle lanes and cycle racks just like a pedal bike. - Anyone who needs or wants more power can buy an electric motorbike, but these don't belong on cycle paths as their higher speed and extra weight make them unsafe to share space with pedal cycles and pedestrians.
I disagree they should be faster than bikes but slower than cars and motorcycles. They should be safe enough to ride in bike lanes so obviously not like 70kmh but 45kmh is fine
@@deleteduser3455You're missing the point, the best thing about ebikes is the lack of BS. No insurance, no licence, no helmet if you want, ride it anywhere and, most importantly, no registration/licence plate. I will gladly keep the current restrictions to avoid all that nonsense. If they keep the current rules for the current pedal assist bikes and introduce the BS for the faster bikes, fine, but this could ruin ebikes for me.
@ivor well said I agree but Still not fair on bikes whilst cars are free to hit 150mph. 🥴 yeah we can’t just allow everybody to go fast so why pick on one and not the other
Giving an e bike to a young person would be like giving a monkey a loaded machine gun. The comments in this video and in the posted comments proves my point. There is no cure for stupid.
I made a 2kW ebike 8 years ago which does up to 30 mph by adding a hub motor to a mountain bike and making a battery from 224 harvested laptop cells and have ridden thousands of miles on it. Secret to not being stopped is to behave responsibly and keep pedaling as though you're working at it, even you're not actually doing any work. Having a couple of panniers help too.
@@v0styr0-u4n the law is there to try and stop the idiots but if you ride responsibly no one is going to question you. But if you are ever in an RTC you may be found liable even if it is not your fault because your vehicle is illegal. ie if a car knock you off and causes damage to your bike and cause injury to you and then you try and claim against the drivers insurance the likelihood is they wont pay out
Regardless if the 250W power is pointless or not I guess most of us agree that double the power its decent and safe enough. After all ,accidents happen even with the push bikes, even when we’re walking, that doesn’t mean we should ban vehicles specially now with so much technology they put in pretty much everything. European union leaders are ruining all the fun in life because they care so much about our safety. Its all about how to reap more money from our pockets and I think is obvious. Same damn thing they do with drones and other good things in our lives.
@@MisterAshbrook I live in an area surrounded by steep hills. I have a responsibility to my neck, back and joints when I'm trying to make it home struggling up a steep incline with sweat dripping down my face and a bag full of shopping on my back snagging on my shoulders. Most average car drivers can't even be bothered to walk to the shop 5-10 mins down the road let alone climb these hills and there's those who physically are unable to peddle like my dad who lost half his leg in a car accident when he was young. Plus there are days when I wanna get out for my own mental health without it having to feel like a workout or the fact a lot of jobs are on the other side of the city and I don't fancy peddling like a maniac to get to work for an hour each way and yet people are whizzing around on e-scooters which you could argue are even more dangerous. I can't afford one anyway. I can barely afford to maintain my pushbike which is currently a bit of a death trap and while I personally enjoy riding a bike for exercise and leisure I can immediately see the benefits having one of these would have for my mental health since I don't own a car and can't afford to get one plus it would literally increase my chances of finding work and expanding the radius in which I could travel. Also these e-bikes hit like 15.5mph. I can do 20-30mph+ easily on a regular bike whizzing downhill but if I'm focusing all my attention on peddling getting out of breath with wind and rain blowing in my face then the e-bike rider is gonna be a lot safer and react a lot faster to any potential hazards coming their way not to mention they often have thicker tires with better tread/traction where as one wrong move with my thin presta tyres and I could end up sliding under the tires of an oncoming vehicle. I've always rode safe though. I respect both pedestrians and the laws of the road but I can't say the same for a large percentage of car drivers who think it's ok to cut me off by turning in front of me or tryng to overtake on the opposite side of the road when the reason I'm in the middle of the road is cos I'm about to turn right and if I didn't naturally ride on the defensive and assume everyone's an asshole I would've been dead many times over by now. If people got out on their bikes more often this would all be common sense not to mention free up the burden on the NHS since everyone should be getting a minimum of 150mins cardio every week in order to reduce their risk of things like stroke/heart disease. Also just to note I'm not a skinny ass lycra wearing ''cyclist'' I'm just a guy who happens to ride a bike from time to time or at least I did before I broke it and then both my mental/physical health took a signifficant downturn cos I was unble to get out and about as much. Besides IF I wanted to break the law I could just as easily go get my hands on a stolen overpowered e-bike/motorbike/ped/car where as all I want is a simple legal route that doesn't involve jumping through lots of hoops or costing a fortune. When I hear about all these stupid rules and regulations it just makes me wanna go out and break the law all the more even though I try my best to be a good law abiding citizen most of the time, or at least do no harm cause no foul. There will always be those who go out and break the law but guess what? They're already out there doing it and they will mow you down all the same lol
@paulleekc3 Just have to hope you don't get pulled over for any reason because the police do have powers to seize them unless you have motor bike license & have it fully registered for the road & insured. Although if its an ebike from Amazon they'll be doing you a favour taking it away. They're terrible lol What is called a BSO. Bicycle Shaped Object. But quality usually very poor
@@ControlAroundRockLines No, it's absolutely brilliant, fat tyres, big motorcycle style frontlight and rear break light. Can not fault it, although I will be upgrading a few bits, rear suspension been the main one.
eBikes should be limited to 20mph so you can keep up with the traffic in such restricted areas. There would then be no need for 'close pass' etc, because you're at the max anyway. I can pedel my bike at about 20mph on the flat (I am a retiree!), but the assistance is useful for hills....
@@BarkingSpiderAdventures true. I can pedel as fast as 30, however the gearing on the Raleigh eBike is only 4:1 and you can’t get the gears to change it (I wanted a bigger chainring than 44). I can comfortably sustain 20 without compromising blood pressure. My son has a full race/road bike and cab make 50 as it has higher ratio range.
@@herrtomas6729 then why limit it to only 20? I have a motor goat v3 on the way. Does over 40 with a rider my size. I bought this bike to save money going to work and maybe a little door dash or bike trails on the weekends. On my commute I have no choice but to ride in traffic because the road meets the ditch on both sides. In order to be safe I have to keep up. Sure I could have bought another motorcycle but that's defeating the entire purpose of getting an EV.
@@BarkingSpiderAdventures simply looking from the town/commuter viewpoint to safely cover everyone, starting from (I think it is) 14yr olds upwards from residential front door to school, work etc
I’m sorry but I totally agree with high performance e bikes. I’ve got a motorbike license and have had for decades. I learnt how to ride a motorbike safely and those skills take time. For someone with no experience on riding a bike that can legally get on a bike that has similar performance to some small motorbikes is nothing short lunacy. They’ve typically got inferior handling capabilities, poorer braking making them even more dangerous. To see young kids on extremely fast illegal e-bikes scares me to death, not for them (they’re the least of my worries) but for people around them…
I agree with you about the ebikes that look like motor bikes they should be taxed and insured, why? because the young stupid boys out there are going to buy these bikes and break the law by riding like a bunch of dicks.
I surrendered my driving licence after having a seizure and they won’t give me it back now even though I’m 100% healthy . now there trying to take my bike 😂. I will build a para moter
really ? i have a visual impairment condition and this leaves me unable to obtain my license, which means i cannot get my provisional for a cbt to ride the likes of a surron. i’ve ridden dh mountain bikes and have been into mtb as a sport in general from a young age and im used to controlling a bike in fast situations but also feel as though im safe, Im aware of my limits of my eye condition and generally that’s in low light , id like to be able to travel at the same speed as general town traffic (30mph, on a flat surface i can achieve this anyway, feels much safer travelling at the same speed as cars rather than sticking to one side and having tonnes of cars overtake ). I already have insurance on my mountainbike which is both in case of theft but also public liability and personal accident, it only costs £7 a month most bloody people should have it as it can help one day ! my issue is id absolutely love a surron but being unable to register one is what holds me back. i feel plenty competent to handle a bike like this having had prior experience on some mates ones along with mx bikes. feels very restrictive, e bikes are great and there will obviously be people that will abuse them but that can’t be said for everyone
We have an ADO folding E bike with a 250 watt motor with a CE mark on it. I have been into the engineering section, changed it to hybrid drive and increased the max speed setting and fitted the throttle that came with the bike as an option. The bike now goes up to 15.5 mph as normal with the pedal assist but the throttle takes it up to about 22 mph without pedaling hard, in still conditions on the flat. I now find it perfectly capable enough for tootling about as a sensible e-bike. I can't see that 500 watts is needed. If I want to go faster I can get my Kawasaki 900 RS, or my Honda cbr 600 f out and go nearly 160 mph ( where permitted ) lol. Don't think any faster than that speed on an e-bike is appropriate and at that speed I wouldn't attract the wrong attention, particularly at 65 years old.
You can have your Surron on the road however it just appears to me that you do not want to register or insure it, I would love to get away with that argument on my motorcycle or car. If we remove the restriction for pedal assist then those bikes will also lose the ability to use the same areas that standard pedal cycles currently use as these areas will become overrun with what are effectively electric motorbikes. One of your arguments that these electric motorcycles are actually safer than pedal assist is you state & 11.55 that your bike is equipped with better brakes than a pedal cycle, that’s strange as yours appears to be equipped with Hope Tech 4 master cylinders which are designed for normal bicycles. Just give in, register your bike, do your CBT and ride it without complaining.
lol. I’m not complaining. I’m just talking about a topic. I agree that hope tech 4’s are for mountain bikes however you cant deny that they are a performance upgrade that would out perform most stock pedal assist e-bikes. Personally I feel a lot safer on the Surron compared to my EAPC. That’s just my opinion. Another point I wish I had made is regarding people converting their standard pushbikes to e-bikes by bolting on hub motors and strapping on batteries.
I agree TECH 4s and everything that Hope produce is well above the standard parts that are fitted to most bicycles, however the Surrons are effectively electric motorbikes and need to be treated that way. On the subject of home conversions by adding a hub motor and little else, I have seen several very poor examples and cannot believe that people would actually ride them even before a motor was fitted, I also believe that these are the source of many fires which does nothing but give electric vehicles of all types a very bad name.
The issue with the laws changing on e-bikes is that it will be guaranteed that registration, a licence and insurance will be required, and you guessed it parking fines etc. will also come into play. Further, you will also be pulled for bald tyres and much more. At which point you may as well get a moped and be done, e-mopeds are generally cheaper than decent e-bikes and are more secure when parking up etc due to in built immobilisers, alarms etc…
Regular bicycles increasingly use dedicated road spaces, sometimes shared with pedestrians. If e-bikes can share this road space then it makes sense for others who interact with those dedicated spaces, be they cyclists, pedestrians or motor vehicles, to expect similar characteristics from all types of machine in that space. That’s why e-bikes have limited power and max speed. There are also electric mopeds, available which have much higher power, but are treated like other mopeds in terms of the road spaces they are allowed to use and the registration and driver training regimes. I ride a pushbike mostly in London where there’s a lot of dedicated cycle infrastructure and would not appreciate having electric mopeds invade that space. The distinction between bikes and motorbikes is also enshrined in law. Cycles can’t be sanctioned for breaking the motor vehicle speed limit, for example, unless, as you point out they do so ‘furiously’ (generally taken to mean dangerously) So it’s not a money-making scheme by the government, it’s a necessary categorization of vehicle types and the line has to be drawn somewhere.
You misunderstand the use-case for an e-bike. They are basically bikes made easier, they are not designed to be electric motorcycles. The throttle being allowed up to 4 mph is because it is only designed as a push assist, or to assist someone with a disability to get moving. Some e-bikes are heavy, especially cargo bikes, so this assists greatly.
@@SoSimonSays That is a pretty stupid remark. I ride my converted ebike fifty odd miles a week in hilly country. VERY hilly country. I am 73 years old. I enjoy riding it and work hard enough to be able to get 43 miles out of a nearly four year old 13Ahr battery, so I am putting out effort. When I was forty odd, I could ride forty miles in two hours on an unassisted bike and run a half marathon in 1 hr 18 minutes. AS you age, you will notice that it gets harder to put out high power, so in the future, YOU TOO might be taking advantage of some lithium ions when going up hills.
I think the laws on ebikes are spot on. If you don't have pedal assist then it's a motorbike. The likes of Surrons and Talarias ect, are in the realm of mopeds, they are faster in fact. You should need tax, insurance and a CBT to ride one on the road.
Escooters are not classed as motorbikes, so I think it's fair to reinstate throttles up to 15mph on ebikes and still remain I. The bycycle category. They are much safer and allow people with limited mobility to get some exercise and rest when needed. Just my input as someone who has used one for 15 years
@@urbanpuma9136the kid that slammed into me on a government scooter cost Nottingham city council 2k in damages because he slammed into at full speed facing the wrong direction looking at a piece of ass 4 lanes away they are dangerous! Getting hit by a fat person at 15mph on a slab weighing almost 15kg does a lot of damage and can easily breaks bones then add in no helmets or protection and they are a disaster waiting to happen..
@@printitpaintit.2436 I think rules on usage need to be implemented. Users should be aware of all road users and ride responsibly - this should be made law. In built up areas speed should be low. All vehicles are dangerous if used incorrectly and no way am I saying .escooters should be riding at full speed, same as ebikes and cyclists
I'm all for cycling proficiency tests, and registration of e-bikes above a certain power or speed. 1) it will provide a way of enforcing speed limits 2) it will provide some deterrence for theft 3) if you are using the public highway, particularly at speeds where a collision is going to be life threatening and harder to avoid due to reaction times and stopping distance, I'd like to know you have been tested to show you know what you're doing. Just gives us more power and easier speed control. As for cycling proficiency tests, got no problem with that either.
The 4mph throttle is for walking your bike up hills when you're not actually on the bike. The reason the output is 250watts is because as you said ≈ human pedal power. Full electric power (or more than 250w) is then a mechanically propelled vehicle and the subject to the same road laws as a car, motorbike etc, insurance, DV license etc
watts are a value of volts x amps, so i can program my bafang 48v 30amp (1500 watts) controller to only output 250w quite easily. But then they also require you to use 36v batteries and only ride up to 15.5mph whilst using only pedal assist. So what if you have dodgy knees as a lot of older people have and find pedalling painfull and difficult. No riding for you slightly disabled person, the law doesn't allow you the freedom other people have. What a strange country we live in, where people can float into this country and stay here with no identification. Claiming they're fleeing a war torn country after passing through countless safe countries to get here, sounds wrong to me. But i can't ride 20mph on an ebike, yet you can ride up to the speed limit on a non ebike as long as you like.
As someone who owns an e bike and who has spent many many years cycling prior to using an e bike, someone needs to explain to me why going over 15.5mph on an e bike is more dangerous than going over 15.5mph on a normal bicycle, because i have experienced no additional safety concerns between the two.
@@scotlaughlin2487 pedestrians? I'm cycling on the road. If I'm concerned about hitting pedestrians then there's more immediate issues that are nothing to do with it being an e bike.
Pedestrians don't cross the road without looking where you ride? They do here. I think some see "not a car" don't notice my speed. I own five e-bikes, from low power 500w conversions to 1400w factory bikes. They weigh anywhere from 55 lbs to 140 lbs. Most of them could use more brakes to even match a typical road bike's stopping distance. If I hit a pedestrian, it's my fault in the eyes of the law, no matter how oblivious they were. If I hit them with the 140lb bike, they're going to be hurt worse than if hit by a roady on his 15lb carbon tour de france replica. Impact energy goes up as a square of speed, so if you're going twice as fast, you do four times the damage to whatever you hit. If your e-bike is only twice as heavy as a typical leisure bike, and you're going twice as fast (a couple of mine will hit 30 mph easily ) that's eight times the impact energy. Yes, E bikes need to meet higher standards than pedal bikes. @@anythingpeteives
@@scotlaughlin2487 so should any bike ridden by a heavier person also be restricted to 15.5 mph. Or any normal heavy bike. A phat bike, for instance. I've cycled for over 20 years and have never come even close to having an accident with a pedestrian crossing in front of me because I am aware of the potential hazards and of what my bicycle is capable of, stopping wise. If I couldn't avoid hitting a pedestrian even if I was doing say 20mph on an e bike then I shouldn't be cycling at all, in my view. Btw, I'm not advocating for e bikes to be allowed to go at 30mph legally. But 15.5 is painfully slow and, if you cannot avoid pedestrians stepping out onto the road when travelling at that speed then there's an issue with your ability as a cyclist.
you can cycle as fast as you like but motor assist needs to cut out at 25km per hour and no throttle other wise you become a motor/ped and then there are different rules....speed pedelec, 45km, helmet and registration & insurance and no use of cycle paths
Whilst I agree with the main thrust of your video, personally I find the 250 watt motor perfectly adequate for my needs. My one big issue is range and the affordability of new batteries. I have a thumb throttle on my bike which gets used for pulling away from traffic lights, I'm not a lightweight rider (15st) and even at 250 watts the kick I get from the throttle is amazing, I look forward with interest to see just what the government's new regulations are.
I’m 64 and I can ride a normal bike at 30 mph plus but when I’m on my ebike bicycles pass me, the only thing I like about the ebike is it’s a lot easier on your joints and help going uphill.
The whole electric mobility issue needs sorting. Ebikes, Escooters, Eunicycles, Segways etc. I have developed a hip issue and hate the idea of using a mobility scooter. I can no longer ride my ebike and have been looking at ebikes with thumb throttles as electric scooters seem to be targeted by the police. Its all totally ridiculous including the 15.5 mph assist limit. I am beginning to wonder when they will stop me using my walking stick as it's potentially a lethal weapon. Liked the video by the way.
I have a car, motorbike and used to be a motorcycle riding instructor in the 1990s, I am all for proficiency testing, helmets and 3rd party insurance. I also think that the driving test in the Uk is far too easy. It should include night, motorway, and skid control training 40 mins around town is far from adequate testing to be able to drive around in 1.5 tonnes of metal.
so 40 minutes testing in a 1.5 ton car, is not enough time to pass or fail someone to drive a 1.5 ton car. That's what you just said Dave. Remembering all the lessons that they've had driving a 1.5 ton car.
If you got to insure one and MOT it and tax it you might as well buy a moped and go twice as fast. Next the government will expect us to insure a normal push bike. I can see all the kids with bikes going for that rubbish. It's all about the money. Government just penny pinching for their own pockets as usual
After a cyclist came off the pavement at high speed he ended up on my car bonnet, £420 damage to car and who had to pay yeah I DID, cyclists should at least have 3rd party insurance to be on a road.
The average rider output is 180watts, so having an extra 250watts it's like having almost two and half times the power. I ride a Raleigh Motus and it was a revelation! I live in the hilly part of Yorkshire and this bike allows me at 68 to go up hills with little effort. I love it.
Sounds like you haven't ridden a decent e-bike to be honest. With a Bosch Performance Line CX motor and the right gearing you can go up very steep hills with ease. I can do it on my Enviolo with moderate effort (sitting down, not sweating) but I test rode a bike with the Rohloff E-14 transmission and it went up the same hill in 3rd gear with ease. There is no need for more than 250W
I agree 250 watts can do it with some effort from the rider. At a push I would be ok if they upped it to 350 watts as I think anything beyond this is too much to feel safe, particularly around pedestrians
You make some good points. We have such terrible restrictions because some people are dicks and spoil it for everyone. I think that the police generally have better things to do than check e-bikes and so as long as you are riding in way that is not disrespectful to other people you should be okay.
The USA speed limit of 20mph is approaching sensible. I ride a normal bike at around 18-22mph and I've raced down hill skateboards at 50mph (world record is over 90mph). 15mph is just useless apart from pottering around a city.
😮😮😮😮 no way!!!! That’s extortionate. It’s frustrating as the government is pushing for transport to become more green but then you are being completely shafted by insurance companies.
I think you’re missing the point the assist is to get someone who’s struggling to get up to speed 15.5 is like you said the normal speed for someone who is not struggling
I’ve just bought a 250w bike to help me get out. Now having been a MTB downhill racer back in the day, I’m now disabled and can’t ride a non powered MTB anymore. My e-bike at 250w helps assist me climb some pretty steep hill in Shropshire, still pedalling but with no stress on my spine or knackered leg. The throttle gets me moving then cuts out which I really don’t mind as it’s all about exercise rather than speed. I have held a full motorbike license for 30 years and ridden some pretty powerful bikes so I understand people wanting a bit more power, but it isn’t necessary on a e-bike unless you want to be a hooligan, which tbh will fcuk it up for everyone else…if you want speed…pass your test, if you want exercise with a bit of help, then e-bikes are perfect ESPECIALLY for those of us who need that extra push up a hill.
I’ve ridden an E bike for over twenty years. Throttle and pedal power are fine so long as we use with care and common sense. Government cannot make everyone apply common sense.
This comment needs to be pinned. Really good assesment of what an ebike is meant for. If you want something faster and stronger, just get a motorbike! Ultimately the people wanting more will ruin it for everyone elese because with higher speeds/power will come road tax, insurance, parking fines etc.
Power of an e bike is not important if the speed is limited but more power on a limited bike means more able to climb hills which makes them safer and better not any more dangerous. In fact it makes take off better when keeping in traffic flow. I got involved in the govt e scooter consultation, their suggestions were ridiculous in my eyes, ignoring things that could be considered to make them a safe cheap transport mode, like decent size wheels that aren't too small for our crappy potholed roads and the simple option of a seat on a scooter making it more stable for any rider , even my old mum could enjoy that, and easily get it indoors , or up stairs etc. . Money always ends up the motivation. A cbt etc. will mean a licence, might as well buy a moped for far less money. Remember 16 yr olds had to ride limited mopeds with pedals? That didn't last did it? Mo FS1Es in shops now.
Great video. I am in the USA (California), but I feel you. Your local laws are far worse than ours. Ours are 750W and 28 mph, and yours at 250W/15mph always seemed unreasonable to me. At the end of the day, who cares? As long as you abide by the laws and the rules of the road locally, why should the power matter? Would the government prefer I ride a motorcycle or drive an ICE-powered vehicle? At least my e-bike is powered by my solar panels on my house, is non-polluting, and isn’t hurting anyone since I DO follow my local laws.
I’ve had an e-bike for 5 years, it is great I can go anywhere on it. 250w is fine, I can go up steep hills, takes the strain of my 63 year old knees and hips. Young People are getting lazy, the bike you want is basically an electric motorcycle….
The 250w, 15.5mph standards are not British government standards, they're EU standards, it's actually 25km/hrs, that's why there's a 0.5 mph on the limit. The whole idea of an ebike isn't so some young idiot can fly around the roads like they're on a motorbike... that's why there are motorbikes. E-bikes are just bicycles made easier; you don't need to pedal as hard, a less fit person can cycle, and go further, with more load, like a few groceries, etc. If you want a high-power motorbike with a throttle? Take your test and buy a high-power motorbike with a throttle, I hope the UK government leaves e-bikes in the niche they're in.
what about people who fall in between? They have limited mobility and want to get some exercise. A motorcycle is pointless for them as they wouldn't get any physical benefit and would be lumbered with a pointless, heavy item. An ebike with a throttle helps here.
With trespassing all it means that if u are not causing any damage then all they can do is ask u to leave there land .. that’s it nothing else , IF you refuse to leave when asked from the landowner then that’s a criminal offence. I am a landowner myself, basically if u see all these signs saying ‘ trespassers will be prosecuted’ etc etc ignore them , they can’t do squat 👍
You are quite right about the motor power, it is very silly. Its safer to have a higher power motor to get yourself out of a bad situation such as crawling up a hill on a narrow road with angry drivers behind overtaking at inapropriate opportunities. The proposed increase to 500w is foolish - they may as well go to 750w because manufacturers are simply going to sell a restricted 750w motor to the UK market. If the rider is going to have to have insurance is this going to mean the bike will have to have a number plate? Will the police do more spot checks to make sure people have insurance?? I can see the market for stealth ebikes increasing if so because nobody wants to be stopped and have to present documents. Too many restriction and like you say we may as well get a motorbike, especially if you have to wear a helmet and have insurance and do a test - a 125 is far more fun and powerful than an ebike, and if they make a better noise too!
Personally I'm not too worried about the power limit, but would like the assisted speed limit to be raised (say to 20 mph). Would make it much easier to keep up with traffic. Also, would make it easier to keep up with non-assisted bikes (at the moment I go faster uphill, and then they catch up on the downhill stretches).
The output IS NOT limited to 250w. You can output as much power as you like. The law says that the motor must be RATED at 250w, There is no rule for how it has to be rated, so manufacturers can use whatever rules they want, which is why there are some very powerful "250w" motors, like Heinzmann. Basically, your motor must be marked 250w. How much power you push through it is up to you.
Yes, the laws are crazy, but you have to ask yourself this simple question; What are you using the Ebike for? If your answer is; to commute and not to have to pedal at all, well as long as you have no steep hills on your commute, 250W motor will just about do fine, if you dont want to go too fast. You wont need to pedal at all. What you have, is a non-taxable , no insurance, no MOT , no licence plate, no helmet required, ultra cheap mode of transport, job well done! If however , you are like me and has steep long hills where you live, but would like to cycle for fitness, but are like me, old 74, with dodgy knees, overweight and not so fit, you wont go near a push bike, as there is no point, you cant cycle up the hills. Thus adding an electric motor, batttery kit , even 250W allows me to go on a bike, and the motor makes the difference, providing that you are prepared to pedal! So for people that otherwise would not be cycling, due to age illness etc, Even a 250W motor makes a difference., and enables me to get the blood flowing . Thus first ask yourself , do you intend to pedal, or just use it as a free lightweight moped.
I took and passed the cycling proficiency test when I was a young teenager. Nothing wrong with having that for ebikes, or even all bikes, in view of the frequent abyssmal standard of bike riding. Insurance would be a good thing too. If you're not dangerous, it won't cost much, maybe even included with home insurance, but if you cause an accident, you need to pay for the damage or injuries. Some people think that because they don't have insurance, they're not responsible. I'd say registration would be a step too far. Next would be MOTs.
Any E-Bike able to go over 20mph should require the same as a motorbike. CBT, Insurance, Helmet. Why? as more and more people on the road untested that don’t have a clue how to ride on the road. Plus Insurance protects other road users
Was on my 250cc moped filtering past a line of heavy traffic, traffic was doing 0-5 mph i was filtering at 10-15, Surron rider came past at 50 plus with nothing but tyre noise. Anyoneone deciding to do a U turn or turn into their drive would have killed him. E bikes are definitely a part of our world and more powerful ones should be allowed but they must be subject to training and licencing the same as any motorbike because that is what they are.
Makes me sick this country, they hound vehicle users over emissions and damaging the environment and encourage more eco friendly alternatives like bikes then try police and restrict them as much as possible absolutely sickening
I have a legal rockrider e bike. Gets up clay filled rough forest terrain on a 20 degree incline fine with about 100w of power from my legs. You’re using the wrong bikes if you can’t get up a hill. I like the law as is. I love my ebike and don’t see it pointless at all. It helps me train in the right easy zone despite hills and rough terrain, it gets me further and helps lug stuff around
250 watt with peddle assist is a good combination for keep fit and hilly locations, if I need more power I'd purchase a small motorbike, how do you get the off road Surron from your home to the off road private track if you don't have a car and trailer. ?
I mean, as someone who has insurance for my e-bike anyway for theft/damage of bike and included accessories, I just tacked on public liability cover to the policy for peace of mind 🤷♀ costs me about £5 a month, and a whole lot less worry. So I'm actually for the case of having insurance, and if the government offers a free registration (like with the Bike Register national database) then sure, all for it, makes it that little bit harder to steal if the bikes unique number is on there, right?
If you have to register/plate/insure a higher power ebike would that make it illegal to take them on cycle paths/trails? if they are then classed as a road vehicle? can of worms?
I think the 250W limit is good. If you want electric mopeds you must start paying insurance, think of stronger helmets, stronger brakes etc. . But a bicycle with pedal assist should remain a bicycle with pedal assist.
I think you'll find that there are more because the stats only refer to killed out right or die within a set time from point of impact. It does not include those who die a few days after.
I rode 6000 miles delivering on a 250w ebike. A lot of that was in eco mode, it was fine. I never felt like I needed more. The only change that should be made is top speed should be 20mph
I do agree with the law changes regarding helmets and insurance, especially if they're allowing more powerful ebikes. The insurance needs to be considered to cover liability for crashes, even for personal injuries. Otherwise the taxpayers cover hospital and/or damage costs to you or another person.
I’d love to ride an e-bike to work but due to an injury I need full assist especially up hills, so it’s not an option, unfortunately the current law seems to be a one size fits all and discriminates against pepeole, with disabilities or heaver pepeole, no reason a 1000w Moyer can’t be used and regulated to deliver power and maintain the league speed limits, e-bikes could be a major answer to the climate crisis and congestion, pepole in power are clueless to be honest in my opinion.
The truth is they are not that bothered about the climate,they are adding more restrictions to cars all the time,but a good alternative to cars on short journeys they also heavily restrictions,its like they don't want people to use there ebikes more instead of using there cars to often
I managed to get a second hand 250watt bike that was built before January 2016. It has a full throttle as well as five levels of pedal assist and is fully legal due to its age.
Current rules for e-bikes are just fine. 15mph on a shared cycle path is fast enough. You want a e-motorcycle or scooter then pay the insurance, license and get on the road. Whats the issue or fear? Its already bad enough when road scared mamils are flying down shared infrastructure with all the gear and no Idea. Speed on shared pedestrian infrastructure with no physical connection to how fast you are travelling is a terrible Idea.
The reality is that as long as you can buy these 'illegal' PEVs, people are going to get them in spite of any regulation or or law. More regulations just means less honest people using electric modes of transport, and the same idiots buying whatever they want and using it recklessly anyway
i seen many cars go through reds, in fact i not seen a cyclist go direct through a red to the other side. and i been driving 35 years, so stop making it up.
@tonyrichardson2637 I'm not making it up about cyclists running red lights. It's epidemic in London and I've seen it with my own eyes. Yes motorists do run red lights but nowhere near the amount cyclists do. Yes, I appreciate there are many responsible cyclists around, I was one for many years but there is a certain group of cyclists that totally disregard the rules and can be a problem.
Keep up the good work ,I've got a peddle assist an yep 15 is just to slow my average is 17/18 mph so useless unless chipped an like you said fine on private land so why does it void warranty ,they need to sit down with the people that ride ,but I use on Rd an off and do all the maintance up ,but yes laws need to change .
I can already unlock my 250w ADO Air to over 20 MPH. I would have loved a throttle on mine (EU model comes without) just for safer pull away and turning corners. The motor is weak for uphill though and I have to put in lot of effort for some of the steeper inclines. I can't see why the motor can't be up to 1000w with a speed limiter. It is needed for steep hills. Being able to maintain 15.5mph or higher uphill would be much safer too.
Put slime gel in the inner tube and take another inner tube and cut the inner diameter side and use it as protection for the first one. So basically you cover the inner tube with another one. You will never have puncture again except if is cut by shard of glass. It worked for me very well. And I had 14 kg of batteries on the rear and a 8kg hub motor and I weight 90kg
I saw this coming. The government always does things for their benefit. They initially restrict, then bring in " sweeteners" to bring others around to the greater restrictions they want to impose, i.e. tax, mot, insurance, registration and licence. If it requires registering, it isn't yours. If you require a licence, that is a contract relating to permission needed. Tax is just legal theft, so what you end up with is everything needed to use a ice bike or car, yet you are only using an e bike. If others can see through the deceptive practices and avoid them as much as possible, they will be better off. All of this is legislation. It is not law.
The number of stolen Sur-Rons being used for drug deals and quick getaways (e.g snatched mobile phones) is also unlikely to encourage fewer restrictions for fast e-bikes.
Three days ago, the police stopped me in Newcastle. They confiscated my bicycle, which has a 250W motor and a maximum speed of 15 mph, just because it has a throttle. Now I'm trying to get it back. It's really difficult to get the 34-kilogram bicycle moving at traffic lights, and the throttle helps with that. I hope I can get my bicycle back.
I used to be a competitive cyclist. Every year we has the Christmas hill sprint which was about 300m flat then a steep 600m section/ I used to hit over 40MPH on the flat section and could maintain that for 1/4 mile at 15yo. I averaged 22MPH on the long training runs which were 199 miles. So personally I believe a 15MPH speed limit is stupid. An E-bike that is in effect an E-moped should have the same performance IE capable of 30MPH.
Good points raised for a debate. 1. You say you can’t see the point of having 250w as the government believe this is equivalent to a person pedalling. The point is with the 250w power assist that it gives your bike the assistance of the eqivilant another person pedalling with you for the few kilos added by the e-bike accessories. My 250w e-trike gets me around ok and up hills where I live with my 14 1/2 stone arse on it. If you have an e-bike with mid drive that drives the chain it will handle hills more easily by being able to change down through the gears. With a hub motor it’s a bit more limited. 2. Yes you can ride an e-bike with greater power than 250w on private land BUT with the owners permission as there is an accountability issue. If you ride without the landowners permission and knowledge they are not liable for any outcome as you have trespassed. If you have their permission they are partially responsible for your actions under their duty of care obligations, hence the ‘with their permission bit’. 3. The reckless riding law is in place as bicycles and tricycles aren’t obliged to have a speedo so you can’t get done for speeding, hence the reckless riding law which was used when a cyclist killed a woman when they ran into her at speed. 4. The mph limit on the throttle suits me as my e-trike manages to meet the requirements of the invalid carriage regulations 1988 so as a person classed as disabled due to not being able to walk distances I can ride it on footpaths and in town centres at a max speed of 4mph. However the throttle requirements apply to manufactures and sellers of e-bikes and not ebike kits fitted to bikes or trikes that were initially intended and ridden as a bike/trike. 5. Needing a licence: I think any person riding a bike or trike at a responsible age should have to attend a cycling proficiency test especially if having no driving licence. At present anyone can ride a bike on the road or a cycle path without any knowledge of the Highway Code, some of who are a bloody liability. When I was in senior school in the mid 60’s you had pass the proficiency test to be able to ride your bike to school. 6. Whilst cycling offences can’t result in penalty points being put on a driving license a court can apply a ban for any serious offences. That could include reckless riding or riding under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Good advice about wearing a helmet. Came off my bike on a cycle path in London cracking my helmet on a kerb in the process. I had a headache for a day but expect it would have been far worse with no helmet on. With respect you need to know your facts before giving out misleading info..
So you can a road legal surron & you need a cbt or moped license, insurance etc to ride it on the road. Can they be retuned & reclassed to be a motor bike & then ridden with a full motorbike license, insurance etc ? Like you can fit a bigger engine in a 50 or 125cc & have it reclassed as a motorbike.
The biggest problem is kids riding around on these, full balaclavas, no helmet, no license, no insurance. They have no regard for the road laws. From what I have seen, they are just dangerous. It’s a shame as these are now replacing kids on a mountain bike.
unfortunately there are a large number of idiots who spoil it for everyone, spoke to someone the other day who has built an old mountain ebike that will do 50+ mph according to him,this is on pushbike rim brakes! there should be a mot and insurance and plates.
I agree people should not be allowed to build their own ebike without registering it because the components have to be MUCH stronger! The motor and battery packs make the bike almost as heavy as a second rider so the frame, forks and rims have to be able to the extra weight and strain! Even shocks have to be ebike certified with stronger valves because of the extra weight so the home build kits that allow you to 50mph are definitely dangerous.. Not to mention most kits use cheap nasty batteries made in china that will burn your house down if given the opportunity! 🙈
I disagree, I built my own e bike but I'm jot stupid so like a car I upgraded the brakes ect, if someone wants 70mph on a 25 year old frame on rim brakes ,,let em there enough stupid people around let em Darwin themselves lol 😆
I started riding again and converted an old mountain bike. The intention was to build up confidence before getting a motorbike, however, I've found that I can get to work twice as fast on an e-bike because I can use bus lanes and cut through parks. IF they changed the laws to allow motorbikes to use bus lanes then I'd have a motorbike.
Bikes are primarily built to be pedalled , the 250 w motor helps people who need that 'assist', if anyone wants to go faster , pedal faster in high gear or get a moped or motor bike
It's not about speed sometimes, I'm 71 and live in an area that is all hills, some of them very steep and getting up them just pedalling is impossible.
I brought a e-bike to ease my body back into riding after accident. Yes they are slow and can't keep up with my pace. Having said that, at the moment, there are too many idiots on the roads. This includes all vehicles, so I would say faster electric bikes are not ready for the roads yet. Last thing, rather than put speed up, sort the bloody pot holes out first.
The US has a sensible balance 20mph, which is usable when riding with other cyclists and if applied to the Uk would prevent poor passes by frustrated motorists in 20mph zones. Creep past a cyclist with a speed differential of 4.5mph in a built up environment is dangerous as it takes a long time.
I have the same experience with fat tyre e-bike. I find it’s the look of the Surron. It does look like a moto x bike and people just jump to conclusions. 99% of people I come across love it. You know the story of the other 1% lol
All good and nice to use .. I did not try an bike yet, but was an mopeds and bigger bikes from the age of 12 .. with or without license.. now have all the licenses and insurance I need .. what I know and believe is that younger teens do not have the understanding how much damage any motorbike burner or electric can do.. there have been accidents with scooters and ebukes from younger teens on footpaths with other pedestrians, so I do understand some regulations need to be in place. But you got a point low powered bikes are not making a difference of power and it is not there to make one, it is there to assist you and help you get there.. commuting to work or school etc.. getting there with less afford. I would say the bikes should be regulated the same way as motorbikes, it is a motor propelled bike it it is petrol or electric .. no difference, if you hit a car or a person with it and damage or health service would need to be covered yes you would need an insurance, any electric bike does have a way higher weight than a simple bicycle, the more weight and speed combined on impact the more damage.. not even talking about torque and controllability knowing how to and when, so this is going into a training same as motorbike licensing or cbt.. and if used on the street and it can go over the speed limit, to be able to trace the owner it be like a motorbike again ..meaning registration, numberplate etc..
Load of rubbish. With no licence, no insurance and no training 250watts is enough and big hills are no problem for my e bike. Living in a town with gangs of small children racing round on unrestricted e bikes, balaclavas (police can't knock the scroats off), no gloves etc. this is a dangerous load of codswallop.
29 may in bow street london i was arrested for wanton and furious cycling the charge went no where i handed them a nice adjusted legal bill as well . If someone has a 250 watt motor can they put say a 500watt motor on without changing anything else
You clearly don’t understand the point of an eBike. If you want these things get a motorbike. Increased power, it makes sense to test, licence and insurance, this isn’t the government trying to grab cash, it’s common sense.
What is the difference between an electric car and a fossil fuel car and make the same comparison between an e-bike, a 50cc moped and a normal motorbike. The problem is that if a car driver is always deemed responsible in an accident with a bicycle where does that leave the driver when an ebike arrives at and crosses a pedestrian crossing from the pavement at 20 mph?
also owning an ebike for most people above 18yrs old are about saving money and having a viable cheap alternative to a car if the govoment start making people tax insure and pay for training just to use one then it no longer becomes cheap its obviosly cheaper than a car but ebike give people without licences and a lot of money for a car the freedom to get out and about which is good for mental health so like always the poorest get shafted
Do people really think goverments raise money for profit? Building and maintaining national infrastructure costs money, and the national debt is huge because they already have to borrow money to pay for it all, despite all our taxes. As for insurance and registration, evidence from e-bikes and e-scooters has shown that kids and younger people especially, are more likely to be involved in accidents (just as with young car drivers). If someone gets hurt or property damaged, you'd expect the people responsible to be held accountable, and want compensation for any financial loss, just like with motor vehicles. You can't have your cake and eat it.
Have you ridden a middrive mountain bike. That thing you were riding looked like a hub motor bike. If it was a 250 watt motor it would struggle up some hills unlike a mid motor bike! Where the motor can use the gears along side the riders input. Riding a pedal cycle is for exercise and enjoyment not just tearing up the country side being a nuisance! If you want to ride fast like a motorcyclist that's fine too abid by the law of the land!
I have a 250w pedibal commuter bike and it has been to the DVSA for certification for throttle assist up to 15.5mph. Pedibal did all the leg work and the certificate arrived with the bike.
People want more freedoms, but they don't want any extra responsibility in return for them. 🙄 Governments can't be experts on everything, so they take advice from many sources before coming up with draft legislation. Such laws are usually based on what appeared to be sound principles presented to them at the time. The UK has broadly followed European laws on the subject of e-bikes. Income from registration will likely be dwarfed by the costs involved in setting up and administration of it.
250W is not completely pointless, makes a world of difference to my recumbent trike after adding one to it. Taking it easy, my average speed went from 8mph to 14mph compared to 11.5 on the bicycle. I can put in as little or a work as I want , not forced to push hard if I dont want to up hills. You don't seem to understand power output. If the motor does 250W and so do you, the total output is 500W, not 250W.
I have the Engwe E26 (250w motor) and I live in a small town in a hilly area where over a 1.3mile distance I have to climb a 90mtrs high gradient and at 78yrs of age manage extremely well without breaking sweat. While having an increased power would be an advantage, I manage quite well at present.
The laws are in place for pedal assist e-bikes. If you want to ride a motorbike, petrol or electric, you need to have a licence, insurance and do the required test. Pedal assist e-bikes are given special dispensation because of the power/speed restrictions to be ridden with the same rules as pedal cycles and can use cylce lanes, paths etc, which you can't do on a motorbike. It sounds from what you are saying the abuse of e-bikes by some is going to result in all of us, who are quite happy with our 250w pedal assist bikes, having to get registration and insurance. Great result guys! ☹As for you riding your Surron off road, you may have the permission of the land owner to ride in their fields but in your videos you are clearly riding an electric motorbike on public roads which requires licence, insurance, registration etc.
@mikeroberts I couldn't have said it better. The channel is making an argument for a completely different type of 'vehicle' whilst at the same time trying to align it with a bike equipped with a motor. The 250w motor is there to assist, not propel and the thumb throttle is again for assistance whilst pushing. Let's hope current laws stay as they are.
@southcoastsurron Idiots don't care about 'the public' and would override them. Laws exist because a small minority has no moral compass. Electric scooters, outside official inner city schemes, are illegal, but that doesn't stop people tearing around on them.
Ok so just to clarify the trespass bit. Correct it isn't a criminal matter, it is a civil matter. But there are civil courts that you could find yourself in. On those occasions where you choose to ride on land that you don't have the owners permission on, ut is the same as someone coming to your house and riding round your garden when you aren't there. You are just relying on not being seen. If the landowner does see you, I suspect they won't be happy, and they will ask you to leave. If they ask this and you leave and do not return, then you break no law of trespass. If you refuse to leave or leave and come back, you do break trespass law and can be pursued through the civil courts. Aggrevated trespass can also become a criminal matter if damage is caused. You also have to be careful on those internal tracks on the fields. Many of them will also be footpaths and bridleways, both of which it is illegal to ride that type of bike on. Best stick to a private piece of land you do have permission for.
The same 250 W, throttle rules, and 15 mph speed limit apply in Queensland, Australia. eBikes have a lot of extra weight (motor, battery, stronger frame, etc). And Cargo eBikes (the type I want to get) have even more weight that makes the 250 W motor virtually useless. I would eBike to work if there were bike lanes along the roads around here. But on the roads around here, even with careful, defensive driving, I'd be very worried about my life expectancy. The big, fast 4WDs, trucks, etc would squash me like a bug in no time.
I completely agree with bringing in registering and insuring for them. The simple fact is that if a person riding an e-bike hits a car or pedestrian, then the person riding it can simply jump back on and ride away with assistance from the bike or if the bike is damaged then that person can run away. If the bike is registered then that makes it much more difficult and if its insured, then if you do crash your e bike, then at least the rider is covered, and the vehicle/person the isn't left having to shell out a bill for something that wasn't there fault. I also think power restrictions for e-bikes are a good idea, I.E if its 250w then you can ride it on pavements like a normal bike but if its 500w then it can only be ridden on roads and bike lanes. Also, regardless of if they bring in registering and insurance for them, if someone is using then for work purposes (deliveroo/user eats) then i think they should have to register and insure them.
I had to give up cycling due to health reasons. As I stay in a hilly area a 250w electric bike is pointless therefore when I go out to the shops I have to take the car. Only other option is I passed my driving test in 1977 therefore I could ride a 50cc moped on my licence without any test ?
Luckily the consultation re increasing continuous power and the use of throttles in the UK was completed before the General Election was called. Let’s hope whoever forms the next Government acts on that consultation and doesn’t bin it. Hope all UK residents interested in changing the law on e-bikes actually participated in the consultation rather than just commenting on RUclips 😳
I live in a small town in the hills. I'm also 63 years old with severe heart failure. I ride my ebike everywhere, it's a matter of choosing the right bike for your environment and the 250w limit is fine, use your gears with forethought and pop up through the assist modes as necessary. I get up hills I could never hope to ride a normal bike up, even in my youth and without lifting my bum off the saddle.
Yes and I am 72 years old and load my Raleigh with 2 panniers of heavy shopping and encounter a steep hill on the way back . Bike is fine going up hill with pedal assist . Also my bike is 8 speed hub gear.
You’re old, every thing is fast compared to you
@@MuffinHunter69bro allow them
I live in the North East, I don’t know what the hills are like there but there’s no way at all I’m getting up the hill I live on with 250w
Hello to you, I also have heart failure and COPD and would love an eBike. Can you tell me what power and other numbers I should be looking out for, if anyone can help I'd be truly Grateful. Thanks then. Quentin
The rules on max power, throttles etc. could be tweaked slightly, but remember that unlike other powered vehicles, ebikes require no licence, tax or insurance. An exception is made for them as they're not supposed to be any faster than a fit person would be on a normal pedal bike. The power restriction is intended to make them safe to use without any training and to allow them to mix safely with pedal cycles. Remember that ebikes have the privilege of using cycle lanes and cycle racks just like a pedal bike. - Anyone who needs or wants more power can buy an electric motorbike, but these don't belong on cycle paths as their higher speed and extra weight make them unsafe to share space with pedal cycles and pedestrians.
I disagree they should be faster than bikes but slower than cars and motorcycles. They should be safe enough to ride in bike lanes so obviously not like 70kmh but 45kmh is fine
Oh please shut up. 😹
@@deleteduser3455You're missing the point, the best thing about ebikes is the lack of BS. No insurance, no licence, no helmet if you want, ride it anywhere and, most importantly, no registration/licence plate. I will gladly keep the current restrictions to avoid all that nonsense. If they keep the current rules for the current pedal assist bikes and introduce the BS for the faster bikes, fine, but this could ruin ebikes for me.
@ivor well said I agree but Still not fair on bikes whilst cars are free to hit 150mph. 🥴 yeah we can’t just allow everybody to go fast so why pick on one and not the other
Giving an e bike to a young person would be like giving a monkey a loaded machine gun. The comments in this video and in the posted comments proves my point. There is no cure for stupid.
I made a 2kW ebike 8 years ago which does up to 30 mph by adding a hub motor to a mountain bike and making a battery from 224 harvested laptop cells and have ridden thousands of miles on it.
Secret to not being stopped is to behave responsibly and keep pedaling as though you're working at it, even you're not actually doing any work.
Having a couple of panniers help too.
panniers is absolute gold 🤣🤣🤣
@@v0styr0-u4n the law is there to try and stop the idiots but if you ride responsibly no one is going to question you. But if you are ever in an RTC you may be found liable even if it is not your fault because your vehicle is illegal. ie if a car knock you off and causes damage to your bike and cause injury to you and then you try and claim against the drivers insurance the likelihood is they wont pay out
@Asparagus777-hw5ft That doesn't worry me at all. I don't live in the UK.
Alot of Uber delivery guys on bikes have a 700w back wheel
yeah but sensible bikers want to use their muscles still and not end up like a cabbage in later life
I don't agree that 250 watts is pointless. It gives a very significant boost and definitely makes me use my bike more than I'd use one unpowered
Regardless if the 250W power is pointless or not I guess most of us agree that double the power its decent and safe enough. After all ,accidents happen even with the push bikes, even when we’re walking, that doesn’t mean we should ban vehicles specially now with so much technology they put in pretty much everything. European union leaders are ruining all the fun in life because they care so much about our safety. Its all about how to reap more money from our pockets and I think is obvious. Same damn thing they do with drones and other good things in our lives.
The only benefit to a 250w motor is that its helps maintain your speed when you're tired.
@@zahaidrahman2052 Not at all. Its a massive benefit
Throttles will be dangerous. Many people just won’t bother pedalling. There’s a certain connection and responsibility with the need to pedal.
@@MisterAshbrook I live in an area surrounded by steep hills. I have a responsibility to my neck, back and joints when I'm trying to make it home struggling up a steep incline with sweat dripping down my face and a bag full of shopping on my back snagging on my shoulders. Most average car drivers can't even be bothered to walk to the shop 5-10 mins down the road let alone climb these hills and there's those who physically are unable to peddle like my dad who lost half his leg in a car accident when he was young. Plus there are days when I wanna get out for my own mental health without it having to feel like a workout or the fact a lot of jobs are on the other side of the city and I don't fancy peddling like a maniac to get to work for an hour each way and yet people are whizzing around on e-scooters which you could argue are even more dangerous. I can't afford one anyway. I can barely afford to maintain my pushbike which is currently a bit of a death trap and while I personally enjoy riding a bike for exercise and leisure I can immediately see the benefits having one of these would have for my mental health since I don't own a car and can't afford to get one plus it would literally increase my chances of finding work and expanding the radius in which I could travel. Also these e-bikes hit like 15.5mph. I can do 20-30mph+ easily on a regular bike whizzing downhill but if I'm focusing all my attention on peddling getting out of breath with wind and rain blowing in my face then the e-bike rider is gonna be a lot safer and react a lot faster to any potential hazards coming their way not to mention they often have thicker tires with better tread/traction where as one wrong move with my thin presta tyres and I could end up sliding under the tires of an oncoming vehicle. I've always rode safe though. I respect both pedestrians and the laws of the road but I can't say the same for a large percentage of car drivers who think it's ok to cut me off by turning in front of me or tryng to overtake on the opposite side of the road when the reason I'm in the middle of the road is cos I'm about to turn right and if I didn't naturally ride on the defensive and assume everyone's an asshole I would've been dead many times over by now. If people got out on their bikes more often this would all be common sense not to mention free up the burden on the NHS since everyone should be getting a minimum of 150mins cardio every week in order to reduce their risk of things like stroke/heart disease. Also just to note I'm not a skinny ass lycra wearing ''cyclist'' I'm just a guy who happens to ride a bike from time to time or at least I did before I broke it and then both my mental/physical health took a signifficant downturn cos I was unble to get out and about as much. Besides IF I wanted to break the law I could just as easily go get my hands on a stolen overpowered e-bike/motorbike/ped/car where as all I want is a simple legal route that doesn't involve jumping through lots of hoops or costing a fortune. When I hear about all these stupid rules and regulations it just makes me wanna go out and break the law all the more even though I try my best to be a good law abiding citizen most of the time, or at least do no harm cause no foul. There will always be those who go out and break the law but guess what? They're already out there doing it and they will mow you down all the same lol
There's only one rule that needs to change. Increase the speed limit from 15.5 mph to 20 mph
👍And allow throttle only mode up to the same speed.
@gedofgont1006 nah. If you want a throttle then buy a motor bike.
I have a hitway ebike from amazon and have unlocked the throttle speed from 15.5mph to 20mph. So much better now.
@paulleekc3 Just have to hope you don't get pulled over for any reason because the police do have powers to seize them unless you have motor bike license & have it fully registered for the road & insured. Although if its an ebike from Amazon they'll be doing you a favour taking it away. They're terrible lol What is called a BSO. Bicycle Shaped Object. But quality usually very poor
@@ControlAroundRockLines No, it's absolutely brilliant, fat tyres, big motorcycle style frontlight and rear break light. Can not fault it, although I will be upgrading a few bits, rear suspension been the main one.
eBikes should be limited to 20mph so you can keep up with the traffic in such restricted areas. There would then be no need for 'close pass' etc, because you're at the max anyway.
I can pedel my bike at about 20mph on the flat (I am a retiree!), but the assistance is useful for hills....
Yea great suggestion mate. I would agree. 👍
People on road bikes pedal far faster than that.
@@BarkingSpiderAdventures true. I can pedel as fast as 30, however the gearing on the Raleigh eBike is only 4:1 and you can’t get the gears to change it (I wanted a bigger chainring than 44). I can comfortably sustain 20 without compromising blood pressure.
My son has a full race/road bike and cab make 50 as it has higher ratio range.
@@herrtomas6729 then why limit it to only 20? I have a motor goat v3 on the way. Does over 40 with a rider my size. I bought this bike to save money going to work and maybe a little door dash or bike trails on the weekends. On my commute I have no choice but to ride in traffic because the road meets the ditch on both sides. In order to be safe I have to keep up. Sure I could have bought another motorcycle but that's defeating the entire purpose of getting an EV.
@@BarkingSpiderAdventures simply looking from the town/commuter viewpoint to safely cover everyone, starting from (I think it is) 14yr olds upwards from residential front door to school, work etc
I’m sorry but I totally agree with high performance e bikes. I’ve got a motorbike license and have had for decades. I learnt how to ride a motorbike safely and those skills take time. For someone with no experience on riding a bike that can legally get on a bike that has similar performance to some small motorbikes is nothing short lunacy. They’ve typically got inferior handling capabilities, poorer braking making them even more dangerous. To see young kids on extremely fast illegal e-bikes scares me to death, not for them (they’re the least of my worries) but for people around them…
I agree with you about the ebikes that look like motor bikes they should be taxed and insured, why? because the young stupid boys out there are going to buy these bikes and break the law by riding like a bunch of dicks.
I surrendered my driving licence after having a seizure and they won’t give me it back now even though I’m 100% healthy . now there trying to take my bike 😂. I will build a para moter
🤣
Yes!
really ? i have a visual impairment condition and this leaves me unable to obtain my license, which means i cannot get my provisional for a cbt to ride the likes of a surron. i’ve ridden dh mountain bikes and have been into mtb as a sport in general from a young age and im used to controlling a bike in fast situations but also feel as though im safe, Im aware of my limits of my eye condition and generally that’s in low light , id like to be able to travel at the same speed as general town traffic (30mph, on a flat surface i can achieve this anyway, feels much safer travelling at the same speed as cars rather than sticking to one side and having tonnes of cars overtake ). I already have insurance on my mountainbike which is both in case of theft but also public liability and personal accident, it only costs £7 a month most bloody people should have it as it can help one day ! my issue is id absolutely love a surron but being unable to register one is what holds me back. i feel plenty competent to handle a bike like this having had prior experience on some mates ones along with mx bikes. feels very restrictive, e bikes are great and there will obviously be people that will abuse them but that can’t be said for everyone
why would you of even surrender ill be suprised if they give it you back
@@Theblindanglerjust go get a surron and ride it
We have an ADO folding E bike with a 250 watt motor with a CE mark on it. I have been into the engineering section, changed it to hybrid drive and increased the max speed setting and fitted the throttle that came with the bike as an option. The bike now goes up to 15.5 mph as normal with the pedal assist but the throttle takes it up to about 22 mph without pedaling hard, in still conditions on the flat. I now find it perfectly capable enough for tootling about as a sensible e-bike. I can't see that 500 watts is needed. If I want to go faster I can get my Kawasaki 900 RS, or my Honda cbr 600 f out and go nearly 160 mph ( where permitted ) lol. Don't think any faster than that speed on an e-bike is appropriate and at that speed I wouldn't attract the wrong attention, particularly at 65 years old.
You can have your Surron on the road however it just appears to me that you do not want to register or insure it, I would love to get away with that argument on my motorcycle or car. If we remove the restriction for pedal assist then those bikes will also lose the ability to use the same areas that standard pedal cycles currently use as these areas will become overrun with what are effectively electric motorbikes. One of your arguments that these electric motorcycles are actually safer than pedal assist is you state & 11.55 that your bike is equipped with better brakes than a pedal cycle, that’s strange as yours appears to be equipped with Hope Tech 4 master cylinders which are designed for normal bicycles. Just give in, register your bike, do your CBT and ride it without complaining.
lol. I’m not complaining. I’m just talking about a topic. I agree that hope tech 4’s are for mountain bikes however you cant deny that they are a performance upgrade that would out perform most stock pedal assist e-bikes. Personally I feel a lot safer on the Surron compared to my EAPC. That’s just my opinion. Another point I wish I had made is regarding people converting their standard pushbikes to e-bikes by bolting on hub motors and strapping on batteries.
I agree TECH 4s and everything that Hope produce is well above the standard parts that are fitted to most bicycles, however the Surrons are effectively electric motorbikes and need to be treated that way. On the subject of home conversions by adding a hub motor and little else, I have seen several very poor examples and cannot believe that people would actually ride them even before a motor was fitted, I also believe that these are the source of many fires which does nothing but give electric vehicles of all types a very bad name.
You cannot ride a surron legally in the uk on the roads without insurance and tax
I don't believe that is a legal version of it it does not have wall the lights you need and the paperwork and he understands that
@@SirLordCustardthe10th there is a uk legal one with number plate lights and indicators
The issue with the laws changing on e-bikes is that it will be guaranteed that registration, a licence and insurance will be required, and you guessed it parking fines etc. will also come into play. Further, you will also be pulled for bald tyres and much more.
At which point you may as well get a moped and be done, e-mopeds are generally cheaper than decent e-bikes and are more secure when parking up etc due to in built immobilisers, alarms etc…
Regular bicycles increasingly use dedicated road spaces, sometimes shared with pedestrians. If e-bikes can share this road space then it makes sense for others who interact with those dedicated spaces, be they cyclists, pedestrians or motor vehicles, to expect similar characteristics from all types of machine in that space. That’s why e-bikes have limited power and max speed. There are also electric mopeds, available which have much higher power, but are treated like other mopeds in terms of the road spaces they are allowed to use and the registration and driver training regimes.
I ride a pushbike mostly in London where there’s a lot of dedicated cycle infrastructure and would not appreciate having electric mopeds invade that space.
The distinction between bikes and motorbikes is also enshrined in law. Cycles can’t be sanctioned for breaking the motor vehicle speed limit, for example, unless, as you point out they do so ‘furiously’ (generally taken to mean dangerously)
So it’s not a money-making scheme by the government, it’s a necessary categorization of vehicle types and the line has to be drawn somewhere.
You misunderstand the use-case for an e-bike. They are basically bikes made easier, they are not designed to be electric motorcycles. The throttle being allowed up to 4 mph is because it is only designed as a push assist, or to assist someone with a disability to get moving. Some e-bikes are heavy, especially cargo bikes, so this assists greatly.
ebiker, more often than not, the lazy cyclist
@@SoSimonSays tell that to us hauling cargo on our bikes
@@user-op8fg3ny3j cargo bikes existed before the ebike
@@SoSimonSays That is a pretty stupid remark. I ride my converted ebike fifty odd miles a week in hilly country. VERY hilly country. I am 73 years old. I enjoy riding it and work hard enough to be able to get 43 miles out of a nearly four year old 13Ahr battery, so I am putting out effort. When I was forty odd, I could ride forty miles in two hours on an unassisted bike and run a half marathon in 1 hr 18 minutes. AS you age, you will notice that it gets harder to put out high power, so in the future, YOU TOO might be taking advantage of some lithium ions when going up hills.
@@Tonyv1951 hence more often than not, you are the not, the minority doesn't make the rule
I think the laws on ebikes are spot on. If you don't have pedal assist then it's a motorbike. The likes of Surrons and Talarias ect, are in the realm of mopeds, they are faster in fact. You should need tax, insurance and a CBT to ride one on the road.
fed
Escooters are not classed as motorbikes, so I think it's fair to reinstate throttles up to 15mph on ebikes and still remain I. The bycycle category. They are much safer and allow people with limited mobility to get some exercise and rest when needed. Just my input as someone who has used one for 15 years
@@urbanpuma9136the kid that slammed into me on a government scooter cost Nottingham city council 2k in damages because he slammed into at full speed facing the wrong direction looking at a piece of ass 4 lanes away they are dangerous!
Getting hit by a fat person at 15mph on a slab weighing almost 15kg does a lot of damage and can easily breaks bones then add in no helmets or protection and they are a disaster waiting to happen..
@@printitpaintit.2436 I think rules on usage need to be implemented. Users should be aware of all road users and ride responsibly - this should be made law. In built up areas speed should be low. All vehicles are dangerous if used incorrectly and no way am I saying .escooters should be riding at full speed, same as ebikes and cyclists
Have my phone snatched out of my hands by someone on an e bike with no licence. Huge fan of powerful e bikes being registered and not free for all.
I'm all for cycling proficiency tests, and registration of e-bikes above a certain power or speed.
1) it will provide a way of enforcing speed limits
2) it will provide some deterrence for theft
3) if you are using the public highway, particularly at speeds where a collision is going to be life threatening and harder to avoid due to reaction times and stopping distance, I'd like to know you have been tested to show you know what you're doing.
Just gives us more power and easier speed control.
As for cycling proficiency tests, got no problem with that either.
👍
The 4mph throttle is for walking your bike up hills when you're not actually on the bike.
The reason the output is 250watts is because as you said ≈ human pedal power. Full electric power (or more than 250w) is then a mechanically propelled vehicle and the subject to the same road laws as a car, motorbike etc, insurance, DV license etc
I'm a human I ride a bike I output way more than 250 w...
@@ksbbsk0891I'm happy for you
watts are a value of volts x amps, so i can program my bafang 48v 30amp (1500 watts) controller to only output 250w quite easily. But then they also require you to use 36v batteries and only ride up to 15.5mph whilst using only pedal assist. So what if you have dodgy knees as a lot of older people have and find pedalling painfull and difficult. No riding for you slightly disabled person, the law doesn't allow you the freedom other people have. What a strange country we live in, where people can float into this country and stay here with no identification. Claiming they're fleeing a war torn country after passing through countless safe countries to get here, sounds wrong to me. But i can't ride 20mph on an ebike, yet you can ride up to the speed limit on a non ebike as long as you like.
The average politician went to Eton school, so anything with a wheel will baffle them.
😂😂
Anything more complicated than socks will baffle the fu---rs.
I've heard they are well versed in pigs though (the true "Swine" version)
Ok class warrior :D:D:D
@@synkuk Some people stand up for themselves, others thank their abusers.
As someone who owns an e bike and who has spent many many years cycling prior to using an e bike, someone needs to explain to me why going over 15.5mph on an e bike is more dangerous than going over 15.5mph on a normal bicycle, because i have experienced no additional safety concerns between the two.
E bikes tend to be heavier than pure pedal bikes, so more danger to pedestrians, and strong brakes become more important.
@@scotlaughlin2487 pedestrians? I'm cycling on the road. If I'm concerned about hitting pedestrians then there's more immediate issues that are nothing to do with it being an e bike.
Pedestrians don't cross the road without looking where you ride? They do here. I think some see "not a car" don't notice my speed. I own five e-bikes, from low power 500w conversions to 1400w factory bikes. They weigh anywhere from 55 lbs to 140 lbs. Most of them could use more brakes to even match a typical road bike's stopping distance. If I hit a pedestrian, it's my fault in the eyes of the law, no matter how oblivious they were. If I hit them with the 140lb bike, they're going to be hurt worse than if hit by a roady on his 15lb carbon tour de france replica.
Impact energy goes up as a square of speed, so if you're going twice as fast, you do four times the damage to whatever you hit. If your e-bike is only twice as heavy as a typical leisure bike, and you're going twice as fast (a couple of mine will hit 30 mph easily ) that's eight times the impact energy. Yes, E bikes need to meet higher standards than pedal bikes. @@anythingpeteives
@@scotlaughlin2487 so should any bike ridden by a heavier person also be restricted to 15.5 mph. Or any normal heavy bike. A phat bike, for instance.
I've cycled for over 20 years and have never come even close to having an accident with a pedestrian crossing in front of me because I am aware of the potential hazards and of what my bicycle is capable of, stopping wise. If I couldn't avoid hitting a pedestrian even if I was doing say 20mph on an e bike then I shouldn't be cycling at all, in my view.
Btw, I'm not advocating for e bikes to be allowed to go at 30mph legally. But 15.5 is painfully slow and, if you cannot avoid pedestrians stepping out onto the road when travelling at that speed then there's an issue with your ability as a cyclist.
you can cycle as fast as you like but motor assist needs to cut out at 25km per hour and no throttle other wise you become a motor/ped and then there are different rules....speed pedelec, 45km, helmet and registration & insurance and no use of cycle paths
Whilst I agree with the main thrust of your video, personally I find the 250 watt motor perfectly adequate for my needs. My one big issue is range and the affordability of new batteries. I have a thumb throttle on my bike which gets used for pulling away from traffic lights, I'm not a lightweight rider (15st) and even at 250 watts the kick I get from the throttle is amazing, I look forward with interest to see just what the government's new regulations are.
The problem is, people that ride these sort of bikes do so irresponsibly. The type I mean are high powered illegal bikes,not legal pedlecs.
Piffle! SOME people (kids and young adults) may…I am 60 and ride very responsibly. Don’t tar everyone with the same brush huh!
I meant higher powered illegal bikes,not legal pedlecs.
I’m 64 and I can ride a normal bike at 30 mph plus but when I’m on my ebike bicycles pass me, the only thing I like about the ebike is it’s a lot easier on your joints and help going uphill.
I’d just like to say, you can fail a CBT. If the instructor considers you unsafe to be on the road, you will not be issued with a certificate.
good thing too!
The whole electric mobility issue needs sorting. Ebikes, Escooters, Eunicycles, Segways etc. I have developed a hip issue and hate the idea of using a mobility scooter. I can no longer ride my ebike and have been looking at ebikes with thumb throttles as electric scooters seem to be targeted by the police. Its all totally ridiculous including the 15.5 mph assist limit. I am beginning to wonder when they will stop me using my walking stick as it's potentially a lethal weapon. Liked the video by the way.
I have a car, motorbike and used to be a motorcycle riding instructor in the 1990s, I am all for proficiency testing, helmets and 3rd party insurance. I also think that the driving test in the Uk is far too easy. It should include night, motorway, and skid control training 40 mins around town is far from adequate testing to be able to drive around in 1.5 tonnes of metal.
so 40 minutes testing in a 1.5 ton car, is not enough time to pass or fail someone to drive a 1.5 ton car. That's what you just said Dave. Remembering all the lessons that they've had driving a 1.5 ton car.
If you got to insure one and MOT it and tax it you might as well buy a moped and go twice as fast. Next the government will expect us to insure a normal push bike. I can see all the kids with bikes going for that rubbish. It's all about the money. Government just penny pinching for their own pockets as usual
After a cyclist came off the pavement at high speed he ended up on my car bonnet, £420 damage to car and who had to pay yeah I DID, cyclists should at least have 3rd party insurance to be on a road.
The road is not safe for cyclists but people insist on them being on the roads
The average rider output is 180watts, so having an extra 250watts it's like having almost two and half times the power. I ride a Raleigh Motus and it was a revelation! I live in the hilly part of Yorkshire and this bike allows me at 68 to go up hills with little effort. I love it.
Not legal speed
I'm 68 years old! not riding at 68mph 😂
@@jcfallows totally read that wrong
Sounds like you haven't ridden a decent e-bike to be honest. With a Bosch Performance Line CX motor and the right gearing you can go up very steep hills with ease. I can do it on my Enviolo with moderate effort (sitting down, not sweating) but I test rode a bike with the Rohloff E-14 transmission and it went up the same hill in 3rd gear with ease. There is no need for more than 250W
Not everyopne can afford top spec.
Rohloff costs a grand alone
@@johndumarney1630£1600+
I agree 250 watts can do it with some effort from the rider. At a push I would be ok if they upped it to 350 watts as I think anything beyond this is too much to feel safe, particularly around pedestrians
there is when you like to do a lot of off roading, 250w doesn't get my fat arse up steep forest trails without risking a heart attack.
You make some good points. We have such terrible restrictions because some people are dicks and spoil it for everyone. I think that the police generally have better things to do than check e-bikes and so as long as you are riding in way that is not disrespectful to other people you should be okay.
Totally agree 👊
The USA speed limit of 20mph is approaching sensible. I ride a normal bike at around 18-22mph and I've raced down hill skateboards at 50mph (world record is over 90mph). 15mph is just useless apart from pottering around a city.
Did my cbt and now i have insured my surron by the way i wouldnt recommend doing it at 16 im now paying 2500 a year to be insured
😮😮😮😮 no way!!!! That’s extortionate. It’s frustrating as the government is pushing for transport to become more green but then you are being completely shafted by insurance companies.
Sounds like you just didn't go to a decent insurance company.
Raped by the government
I think you’re missing the point the assist is to get someone who’s struggling to get up to speed 15.5 is like you said the normal speed for someone who is not struggling
I’ve just bought a 250w bike to help me get out. Now having been a MTB downhill racer back in the day, I’m now disabled and can’t ride a non powered MTB anymore. My e-bike at 250w helps assist me climb some pretty steep hill in Shropshire, still pedalling but with no stress on my spine or knackered leg. The throttle gets me moving then cuts out which I really don’t mind as it’s all about exercise rather than speed. I have held a full motorbike license for 30 years and ridden some pretty powerful bikes so I understand people wanting a bit more power, but it isn’t necessary on a e-bike unless you want to be a hooligan, which tbh will fcuk it up for everyone else…if you want speed…pass your test, if you want exercise with a bit of help, then e-bikes are perfect ESPECIALLY for those of us who need that extra push up a hill.
Same here, herniated disc in my back and arthritis in joints. Just bought a 250w full suspension emtb so I can keep enjoying the MTB experience.
I’ve ridden an E bike for over twenty years. Throttle and pedal power are fine so long as we use with care and common sense. Government cannot make everyone apply common sense.
This comment needs to be pinned. Really good assesment of what an ebike is meant for. If you want something faster and stronger, just get a motorbike! Ultimately the people wanting more will ruin it for everyone elese because with higher speeds/power will come road tax, insurance, parking fines etc.
Power of an e bike is not important if the speed is limited but more power on a limited bike means more able to climb hills which makes them safer and better not any more dangerous. In fact it makes take off better when keeping in traffic flow. I got involved in the govt e scooter consultation, their suggestions were ridiculous in my eyes, ignoring things that could be considered to make them a safe cheap transport mode, like decent size wheels that aren't too small for our crappy potholed roads and the simple option of a seat on a scooter making it more stable for any rider , even my old mum could enjoy that, and easily get it indoors , or up stairs etc. . Money always ends up the motivation. A cbt etc. will mean a licence, might as well buy a moped for far less money. Remember 16 yr olds had to ride limited mopeds with pedals? That didn't last did it? Mo FS1Es in shops now.
Yea I couldn’t agree more mate 👊
Great video. I am in the USA (California), but I feel you. Your local laws are far worse than ours. Ours are 750W and 28 mph, and yours at 250W/15mph always seemed unreasonable to me. At the end of the day, who cares? As long as you abide by the laws and the rules of the road locally, why should the power matter? Would the government prefer I ride a motorcycle or drive an ICE-powered vehicle? At least my e-bike is powered by my solar panels on my house, is non-polluting, and isn’t hurting anyone since I DO follow my local laws.
Our problem in the UK ebiking is spoilt by the idiots who use ebikes for crime ? So we are all punished. Typical government thinking.
You have have higher powered bikes on UK roads, you need to register them and insure them.
If you ride round a farmers field without permission would you mind if we all ride through your garden without your permission?
I’ve had an e-bike for 5 years, it is great I can go anywhere on it. 250w is fine, I can go up steep hills, takes the strain of my 63 year old knees and hips. Young People are getting lazy, the bike you want is basically an electric motorcycle….
The 250w, 15.5mph standards are not British government standards, they're EU standards, it's actually 25km/hrs, that's why there's a 0.5 mph on the limit.
The whole idea of an ebike isn't so some young idiot can fly around the roads like they're on a motorbike... that's why there are motorbikes. E-bikes are just bicycles made easier; you don't need to pedal as hard, a less fit person can cycle, and go further, with more load, like a few groceries, etc.
If you want a high-power motorbike with a throttle? Take your test and buy a high-power motorbike with a throttle, I hope the UK government leaves e-bikes in the niche they're in.
what about people who fall in between? They have limited mobility and want to get some exercise. A motorcycle is pointless for them as they wouldn't get any physical benefit and would be lumbered with a pointless, heavy item. An ebike with a throttle helps here.
With trespassing all it means that if u are not causing any damage then all they can do is ask u to leave there land .. that’s it nothing else , IF you refuse to leave when asked from the landowner then that’s a criminal offence. I am a landowner myself, basically if u see all these signs saying ‘ trespassers will be prosecuted’ etc etc ignore them , they can’t do squat 👍
Freedom to do as you will without harming or annoying a soul requires a license, that's messed up.
One of the most informative posts I have seen in a long time and not packed out with pointless waffling.
Thank you 🙏
You are quite right about the motor power, it is very silly. Its safer to have a higher power motor to get yourself out of a bad situation such as crawling up a hill on a narrow road with angry drivers behind overtaking at inapropriate opportunities.
The proposed increase to 500w is foolish - they may as well go to 750w because manufacturers are simply going to sell a restricted 750w motor to the UK market.
If the rider is going to have to have insurance is this going to mean the bike will have to have a number plate? Will the police do more spot checks to make sure people have insurance?? I can see the market for stealth ebikes increasing if so because nobody wants to be stopped and have to present documents.
Too many restriction and like you say we may as well get a motorbike, especially if you have to wear a helmet and have insurance and do a test - a 125 is far more fun and powerful than an ebike, and if they make a better noise too!
I totally agree with you mate. Hopefully this is just a step in the right direction and there is more to come.
Personally I'm not too worried about the power limit, but would like the assisted speed limit to be raised (say to 20 mph). Would make it much easier to keep up with traffic. Also, would make it easier to keep up with non-assisted bikes (at the moment I go faster uphill, and then they catch up on the downhill stretches).
Great point and I agree
The output IS NOT limited to 250w. You can output as much power as you like. The law says that the motor must be RATED at 250w, There is no rule for how it has to be rated, so manufacturers can use whatever rules they want, which is why there are some very powerful "250w" motors, like Heinzmann. Basically, your motor must be marked 250w. How much power you push through it is up to you.
Yes, the laws are crazy, but you have to ask yourself this simple question; What are you using the Ebike for? If your answer is; to commute and not to have to pedal at all, well as long as you have no steep hills on your commute, 250W motor will just about do fine, if you dont want to go too fast. You wont need to pedal at all. What you have, is a non-taxable , no insurance, no MOT , no licence plate, no helmet required, ultra cheap mode of transport, job well done! If however , you are like me and has steep long hills where you live, but would like to cycle for fitness, but are like me, old 74, with dodgy knees, overweight and not so fit, you wont go near a push bike, as there is no point, you cant cycle up the hills. Thus adding an electric motor, batttery kit , even 250W allows me to go on a bike, and the motor makes the difference, providing that you are prepared to pedal! So for people that otherwise would not be cycling, due to age illness etc, Even a 250W motor makes a difference., and enables me to get the blood flowing . Thus first ask yourself , do you intend to pedal, or just use it as a free lightweight moped.
Good to see the government is paying attention for once 👍
Definitely!! Hopefully this is just the start with better things to come!!!
They are not. They are asking the wrong questions to avoid building proper cycling infrastructure.
I took and passed the cycling proficiency test when I was a young teenager. Nothing wrong with having that for ebikes, or even all bikes, in view of the frequent abyssmal standard of bike riding. Insurance would be a good thing too. If you're not dangerous, it won't cost much, maybe even included with home insurance, but if you cause an accident, you need to pay for the damage or injuries. Some people think that because they don't have insurance, they're not responsible. I'd say registration would be a step too far. Next would be MOTs.
Any E-Bike able to go over 20mph should require the same as a motorbike. CBT, Insurance, Helmet. Why? as more and more people on the road untested that don’t have a clue how to ride on the road. Plus Insurance protects other road users
They should be able to do 30mph just like a moped too
Was on my 250cc moped filtering past a line of heavy traffic, traffic was doing 0-5 mph i was filtering at 10-15, Surron rider came past at 50 plus with nothing but tyre noise. Anyoneone deciding to do a U turn or turn into their drive would have killed him.
E bikes are definitely a part of our world and more powerful ones should be allowed but they must be subject to training and licencing the same as any motorbike because that is what they are.
Makes me sick this country, they hound vehicle users over emissions and damaging the environment and encourage more eco friendly alternatives like bikes then try police and restrict them as much as possible absolutely sickening
I have a legal rockrider e bike. Gets up clay filled rough forest terrain on a 20 degree incline fine with about 100w of power from my legs. You’re using the wrong bikes if you can’t get up a hill.
I like the law as is. I love my ebike and don’t see it pointless at all. It helps me train in the right easy zone despite hills and rough terrain, it gets me further and helps lug stuff around
Tell that to my Grandpa
When they comply with the Road Traffic Act I will consider them. At present they don't and are a menace to all other road users.
250 watt with peddle assist is a good combination for keep fit and hilly locations, if I need more power I'd purchase a small motorbike, how do you get the off road Surron from your home to the off road private track if you don't have a car and trailer. ?
I mean, as someone who has insurance for my e-bike anyway for theft/damage of bike and included accessories, I just tacked on public liability cover to the policy for peace of mind 🤷♀ costs me about £5 a month, and a whole lot less worry. So I'm actually for the case of having insurance, and if the government offers a free registration (like with the Bike Register national database) then sure, all for it, makes it that little bit harder to steal if the bikes unique number is on there, right?
If you have to register/plate/insure a higher power ebike would that make it illegal to take them on cycle paths/trails? if they are then classed as a road vehicle? can of worms?
Yes.
Trouble is people will still ride them on those trails. No shortage of entitled douchebags out there.
I think the 250W limit is good. If you want electric mopeds you must start paying insurance, think of stronger helmets, stronger brakes etc. . But a bicycle with pedal assist should remain a bicycle with pedal assist.
Only 4 pedestrians are killed by bicycles every year compared to 400 pedestrians killed annually by cars
More people die from talking selfies than shark attacks.
I think you'll find that there are more because the stats only refer to killed out right or die within a set time from point of impact. It does not include those who die a few days after.
@@funkycowie OK... perhaps, but I suspect that would make the car figure even higher than the bicycle one.
I rode 6000 miles delivering on a 250w ebike. A lot of that was in eco mode, it was fine. I never felt like I needed more. The only change that should be made is top speed should be 20mph
I got quoted $75 a year for liability insurance on my ebike that's not bad if you run Into somebody and the damage is covered.
Not in the uk
@@harrychambers7784 I got quoted £66 for insurance with Eversure. Liability, Injury and Legal.
For an off-road Sur-Ron?
@@southcoastsurron72v arial rider through progressive, considered motorcycle insurance
@@southcoastsurron Deleted my reply? i paid £66 for a 52v 1200w cruiser years insurance in UK.
I do agree with the law changes regarding helmets and insurance, especially if they're allowing more powerful ebikes. The insurance needs to be considered to cover liability for crashes, even for personal injuries. Otherwise the taxpayers cover hospital and/or damage costs to you or another person.
I’d love to ride an e-bike to work but due to an injury I need full assist especially up hills, so it’s not an option, unfortunately the current law seems to be a one size fits all and discriminates against pepeole, with disabilities or heaver pepeole, no reason a 1000w Moyer can’t be used and regulated to deliver power and maintain the league speed limits, e-bikes could be a major answer to the climate crisis and congestion, pepole in power are clueless to be honest in my opinion.
I completely agree with you mate. Congestion would be a huge factor. Great point. Thanks for your comment bro.
The truth is they are not that bothered about the climate,they are adding more restrictions to cars all the time,but a good alternative to cars on short journeys they also heavily restrictions,its like they don't want people to use there ebikes more instead of using there cars to often
I managed to get a second hand 250watt bike that was built before January 2016. It has a full throttle as well as five levels of pedal assist and is fully legal due to its age.
Current rules for e-bikes are just fine. 15mph on a shared cycle path is fast enough. You want a e-motorcycle or scooter then pay the insurance, license and get on the road. Whats the issue or fear? Its already bad enough when road scared mamils are flying down shared infrastructure with all the gear and no Idea. Speed on shared pedestrian infrastructure with no physical connection to how fast you are travelling is a terrible Idea.
The reality is that as long as you can buy these 'illegal' PEVs, people are going to get them in spite of any regulation or or law. More regulations just means less honest people using electric modes of transport, and the same idiots buying whatever they want and using it recklessly anyway
100%
I agree. This is one of the points I contemplated making in the video is should it be illegal to buy e-bikes with such big motors.
From your introduction I'd assume you haven't experienced a full power (legal) EMTB
Will there be a setting to stop these bicycles at red traffic lights!
i seen many cars go through reds, in fact i not seen a cyclist go direct through a red to the other side. and i been driving 35 years, so stop making it up.
@tonyrichardson2637
I'm not making it up about cyclists running red lights. It's epidemic in London and I've seen it with my own eyes. Yes motorists do run red lights but nowhere near the amount cyclists do. Yes, I appreciate there are many responsible cyclists around, I was one for many years but there is a certain group of cyclists that totally disregard the rules and can be a problem.
@@tonyrichardson2637 Not once in 35 years? 🙄 Stop driving blindfolded - it's dangerous.
Keep up the good work ,I've got a peddle assist an yep 15 is just to slow my average is 17/18 mph so useless unless chipped an like you said fine on private land so why does it void warranty ,they need to sit down with the people that ride ,but I use on Rd an off and do all the maintance up ,but yes laws need to change .
I can already unlock my 250w ADO Air to over 20 MPH. I would have loved a throttle on mine (EU model comes without) just for safer pull away and turning corners. The motor is weak for uphill though and I have to put in lot of effort for some of the steeper inclines. I can't see why the motor can't be up to 1000w with a speed limiter. It is needed for steep hills. Being able to maintain 15.5mph or higher uphill would be much safer too.
I have a Chinese 2000 watt conversion kit fitted to my bike, but I'm always getting punctures ,as it's so heavy at the back.😢
Fit a solid tyre...
Put slime gel in the inner tube and take another inner tube and cut the inner diameter side and use it as protection for the first one. So basically you cover the inner tube with another one. You will never have puncture again except if is cut by shard of glass. It worked for me very well. And I had 14 kg of batteries on the rear and a 8kg hub motor and I weight 90kg
I saw this coming. The government always does things for their benefit. They initially restrict, then bring in " sweeteners" to bring others around to the greater restrictions they want to impose, i.e. tax, mot, insurance, registration and licence. If it requires registering, it isn't yours. If you require a licence, that is a contract relating to permission needed. Tax is just legal theft, so what you end up with is everything needed to use a ice bike or car, yet you are only using an e bike. If others can see through the deceptive practices and avoid them as much as possible, they will be better off. All of this is legislation. It is not law.
The number of stolen Sur-Rons being used for drug deals and quick getaways (e.g snatched mobile phones) is also unlikely to encourage fewer restrictions for fast e-bikes.
Three days ago, the police stopped me in Newcastle. They confiscated my bicycle, which has a 250W motor and a maximum speed of 15 mph, just because it has a throttle. Now I'm trying to get it back. It's really difficult to get the 34-kilogram bicycle moving at traffic lights, and the throttle helps with that. I hope I can get my bicycle back.
Throttle ebikes are not allowed in UK, it literally states it in the law
I used to be a competitive cyclist. Every year we has the Christmas hill sprint which was about 300m flat then a steep 600m section/ I used to hit over 40MPH on the flat section and could maintain that for 1/4 mile at 15yo. I averaged 22MPH on the long training runs which were 199 miles. So personally I believe a 15MPH speed limit is stupid. An E-bike that is in effect an E-moped should have the same performance IE capable of 30MPH.
Good points raised for a debate.
1. You say you can’t see the point of having 250w as the government believe this is equivalent to a person pedalling. The point is with the 250w power assist that it gives your bike the assistance of the eqivilant another person pedalling with you for the few kilos added by the e-bike accessories. My 250w e-trike gets me around ok and up hills where I live with my 14 1/2 stone arse on it. If you have an e-bike with mid drive that drives the chain it will handle hills more easily by being able to change down through the gears. With a hub motor it’s a bit more limited.
2. Yes you can ride an e-bike with greater power than 250w on private land BUT with the owners permission as there is an accountability issue. If you ride without the landowners permission and knowledge they are not liable for any outcome as you have trespassed. If you have their permission they are partially responsible for your actions under their duty of care obligations, hence the ‘with their permission bit’.
3. The reckless riding law is in place as bicycles and tricycles aren’t obliged to have a speedo so you can’t get done for speeding, hence the reckless riding law which was used when a cyclist killed a woman when they ran into her at speed.
4. The mph limit on the throttle suits me as my e-trike manages to meet the requirements of the invalid carriage regulations 1988 so as a person classed as disabled due to not being able to walk distances I can ride it on footpaths and in town centres at a max speed of 4mph.
However the throttle requirements apply to manufactures and sellers of e-bikes and not ebike kits fitted to bikes or trikes that were initially intended and ridden as a bike/trike.
5. Needing a licence: I think any person riding a bike or trike at a responsible age should have to attend a cycling proficiency test especially if having no driving licence. At present anyone can ride a bike on the road or a cycle path without any knowledge of the Highway Code, some of who are a bloody liability. When I was in senior school in the mid 60’s you had pass the proficiency test to be able to ride your bike to school.
6. Whilst cycling offences can’t result in penalty points being put on a driving license a court can apply a ban for any serious offences. That could include reckless riding or riding under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
Good advice about wearing a helmet. Came off my bike on a cycle path in London cracking my helmet on a kerb in the process. I had a headache for a day but expect it would have been far worse with no helmet on.
With respect you need to know your facts before giving out misleading info..
Great video! It's about time they changed the laws. At least we're moving in the right direction.
Let’s hope so Mate 👊
Then, In the future, when 20 is the norm.....there'll be everyone crying out we want faster
So you can a road legal surron & you need a cbt or moped license, insurance etc to ride it on the road.
Can they be retuned & reclassed to be a motor bike & then ridden with a full motorbike license, insurance etc ?
Like you can fit a bigger engine in a 50 or 125cc & have it reclassed as a motorbike.
Any ebike over 250w and 15mph is classed as a motor vehicle. You'd need MoT etc. too ride on road legally.
The biggest problem is kids riding around on these, full balaclavas, no helmet, no license, no insurance. They have no regard for the road laws. From what I have seen, they are just dangerous. It’s a shame as these are now replacing kids on a mountain bike.
unfortunately there are a large number of idiots who spoil it for everyone, spoke to someone the other day who has built an old mountain ebike that will do 50+ mph according to him,this is on pushbike rim brakes! there should be a mot and insurance and plates.
I agree people should not be allowed to build their own ebike without registering it because the components have to be MUCH stronger! The motor and battery packs make the bike almost as heavy as a second rider so the frame, forks and rims have to be able to the extra weight and strain!
Even shocks have to be ebike certified with stronger valves because of the extra weight so the home build kits that allow you to 50mph are definitely dangerous..
Not to mention most kits use cheap nasty batteries made in china that will burn your house down if given the opportunity! 🙈
I disagree, I built my own e bike but I'm jot stupid so like a car I upgraded the brakes ect, if someone wants 70mph on a 25 year old frame on rim brakes ,,let em there enough stupid people around let em Darwin themselves lol 😆
I started riding again and converted an old mountain bike. The intention was to build up confidence before getting a motorbike, however, I've found that I can get to work twice as fast on an e-bike because I can use bus lanes and cut through parks. IF they changed the laws to allow motorbikes to use bus lanes then I'd have a motorbike.
Bikes are primarily built to be pedalled , the 250 w motor helps people who need that 'assist', if anyone wants to go faster , pedal faster in high gear or get a moped or motor bike
It's not about speed sometimes, I'm 71 and live in an area that is all hills, some of them very steep and getting up them just pedalling is impossible.
@@chrislaunders8283 Sheffield perhaps?
I brought a e-bike to ease my body back into riding after accident. Yes they are slow and can't keep up with my pace. Having said that, at the moment, there are too many idiots on the roads. This includes all vehicles, so I would say faster electric bikes are not ready for the roads yet. Last thing, rather than put speed up, sort the bloody pot holes out first.
Revenue collection for their wars. Insurance, bikes always come off worse in accidents with larger vehicles.
The US has a sensible balance 20mph, which is usable when riding with other cyclists and if applied to the Uk would prevent poor passes by frustrated motorists in 20mph zones. Creep past a cyclist with a speed differential of 4.5mph in a built up environment is dangerous as it takes a long time.
I have a fat bike that goes 35mph but i can take it the same place that you do and the feild owners are chill about
I have the same experience with fat tyre e-bike. I find it’s the look of the Surron. It does look like a moto x bike and people just jump to conclusions. 99% of people I come across love it. You know the story of the other 1% lol
@@southcoastsurron yea there are just some people that abuse the Ron that's why they have a bad name
Nope, also police will seize it as its not restricted to 15.5mph
All good and nice to use .. I did not try an bike yet, but was an mopeds and bigger bikes from the age of 12 .. with or without license.. now have all the licenses and insurance I need .. what I know and believe is that younger teens do not have the understanding how much damage any motorbike burner or electric can do.. there have been accidents with scooters and ebukes from younger teens on footpaths with other pedestrians, so I do understand some regulations need to be in place. But you got a point low powered bikes are not making a difference of power and it is not there to make one, it is there to assist you and help you get there.. commuting to work or school etc.. getting there with less afford. I would say the bikes should be regulated the same way as motorbikes, it is a motor propelled bike it it is petrol or electric .. no difference, if you hit a car or a person with it and damage or health service would need to be covered yes you would need an insurance, any electric bike does have a way higher weight than a simple bicycle, the more weight and speed combined on impact the more damage.. not even talking about torque and controllability knowing how to and when, so this is going into a training same as motorbike licensing or cbt.. and if used on the street and it can go over the speed limit, to be able to trace the owner it be like a motorbike again ..meaning registration, numberplate etc..
Load of rubbish. With no licence, no insurance and no training 250watts is enough and big hills are no problem for my e bike. Living in a town with gangs of small children racing round on unrestricted e bikes, balaclavas (police can't knock the scroats off), no gloves etc. this is a dangerous load of codswallop.
Couldn't agree more.
29 may in bow street london i was arrested for wanton and furious cycling the charge went no where i handed them a nice adjusted legal bill as well . If someone has a 250 watt motor can they put say a 500watt motor on without changing anything else
Hahaha! - The Fast and The Furious - 😂😂 Perhaps if your bike had more power you wouldn't need to pedal so furiously. 🤣🤣
You clearly don’t understand the point of an eBike.
If you want these things get a motorbike.
Increased power, it makes sense to test, licence and insurance, this isn’t the government trying to grab cash, it’s common sense.
You can’t ride a motor bike across the canal can you
It's about personal transport that doesn't involve a 2 ton killing machine
Hey @Adepalady999 your Government d!@k gobbler
What is the difference between an electric car and a fossil fuel car and make the same comparison between an e-bike, a 50cc moped and a normal motorbike.
The problem is that if a car driver is always deemed responsible in an accident with a bicycle where does that leave the driver when an ebike arrives at and crosses a pedestrian crossing from the pavement at 20 mph?
Both are classed as motor vehicles they just have different types of motors.
also owning an ebike for most people above 18yrs old are about saving money and having a viable cheap alternative to a car if the govoment start making people tax insure and pay for training just to use one then it no longer becomes cheap its obviosly cheaper than a car but ebike give people without licences and a lot of money for a car the freedom to get out and about which is good for mental health so like always the poorest get shafted
I totally agree with you mate. 👊
and yet they weill cry that it's a war on drivers
Do people really think goverments raise money for profit? Building and maintaining national infrastructure costs money, and the national debt is huge because they already have to borrow money to pay for it all, despite all our taxes. As for insurance and registration, evidence from e-bikes and e-scooters has shown that kids and younger people especially, are more likely to be involved in accidents (just as with young car drivers). If someone gets hurt or property damaged, you'd expect the people responsible to be held accountable, and want compensation for any financial loss, just like with motor vehicles. You can't have your cake and eat it.
Have you ridden a middrive mountain bike. That thing you were riding looked like a hub motor bike. If it was a 250 watt motor it would struggle up some hills unlike a mid motor bike! Where the motor can use the gears along side the riders input. Riding a pedal cycle is for exercise and enjoyment not just tearing up the country side being a nuisance! If you want to ride fast like a motorcyclist that's fine too abid by the law of the land!
I have a 250w pedibal commuter bike and it has been to the DVSA for certification for throttle assist up to 15.5mph. Pedibal did all the leg work and the certificate arrived with the bike.
People want more freedoms, but they don't want any extra responsibility in return for them. 🙄 Governments can't be experts on everything, so they take advice from many sources before coming up with draft legislation. Such laws are usually based on what appeared to be sound principles presented to them at the time. The UK has broadly followed European laws on the subject of e-bikes. Income from registration will likely be dwarfed by the costs involved in setting up and administration of it.
250W is not completely pointless, makes a world of difference to my recumbent trike after adding one to it. Taking it easy, my average speed went from 8mph to 14mph compared to 11.5 on the bicycle. I can put in as little or a work as I want , not forced to push hard if I dont want to up hills.
You don't seem to understand power output. If the motor does 250W and so do you, the total output is 500W, not 250W.
250w is helpful but 500w would help more people , especially elderly or disabled to get out riding .
I have the Engwe E26 (250w motor) and I live in a small town in a hilly area where over a 1.3mile distance I have to climb a 90mtrs high gradient and at 78yrs of age manage extremely well without breaking sweat. While having an increased power would be an advantage, I manage quite well at present.
The laws are in place for pedal assist e-bikes. If you want to ride a motorbike, petrol or electric, you need to have a licence, insurance and do the required test. Pedal assist e-bikes are given special dispensation because of the power/speed restrictions to be ridden with the same rules as pedal cycles and can use cylce lanes, paths etc, which you can't do on a motorbike. It sounds from what you are saying the abuse of e-bikes by some is going to result in all of us, who are quite happy with our 250w pedal assist bikes, having to get registration and insurance. Great result guys! ☹As for you riding your Surron off road, you may have the permission of the land owner to ride in their fields but in your videos you are clearly riding an electric motorbike on public roads which requires licence, insurance, registration etc.
@mikeroberts I couldn't have said it better.
The channel is making an argument for a completely different type of 'vehicle' whilst at the same time trying to align it with a bike equipped with a motor.
The 250w motor is there to assist, not propel and the thumb throttle is again for assistance whilst pushing.
Let's hope current laws stay as they are.
I’m not disagreeing with you. What’s your thoughts on introducing a limiter to restrict high powered e-bikes when riding in public?
@southcoastsurron Idiots don't care about 'the public' and would override them. Laws exist because a small minority has no moral compass. Electric scooters, outside official inner city schemes, are illegal, but that doesn't stop people tearing around on them.
Exactly.
@@southcoastsurronyou mean a device to restrict it to 250W power?
Ok so just to clarify the trespass bit. Correct it isn't a criminal matter, it is a civil matter. But there are civil courts that you could find yourself in. On those occasions where you choose to ride on land that you don't have the owners permission on, ut is the same as someone coming to your house and riding round your garden when you aren't there. You are just relying on not being seen. If the landowner does see you, I suspect they won't be happy, and they will ask you to leave. If they ask this and you leave and do not return, then you break no law of trespass. If you refuse to leave or leave and come back, you do break trespass law and can be pursued through the civil courts. Aggrevated trespass can also become a criminal matter if damage is caused. You also have to be careful on those internal tracks on the fields. Many of them will also be footpaths and bridleways, both of which it is illegal to ride that type of bike on. Best stick to a private piece of land you do have permission for.
Government will find a way to make money from it. We will not see a penny of it 🤷♂️
The same 250 W, throttle rules, and 15 mph speed limit apply in Queensland, Australia. eBikes have a lot of extra weight (motor, battery, stronger frame, etc). And Cargo eBikes (the type I want to get) have even more weight that makes the 250 W motor virtually useless.
I would eBike to work if there were bike lanes along the roads around here. But on the roads around here, even with careful, defensive driving, I'd be very worried about my life expectancy. The big, fast 4WDs, trucks, etc would squash me like a bug in no time.
Typical UK Gov. If they can't tax it, ban it.
I completely agree with bringing in registering and insuring for them. The simple fact is that if a person riding an e-bike hits a car or pedestrian, then the person riding it can simply jump back on and ride away with assistance from the bike or if the bike is damaged then that person can run away. If the bike is registered then that makes it much more difficult and if its insured, then if you do crash your e bike, then at least the rider is covered, and the vehicle/person the isn't left having to shell out a bill for something that wasn't there fault. I also think power restrictions for e-bikes are a good idea, I.E if its 250w then you can ride it on pavements like a normal bike but if its 500w then it can only be ridden on roads and bike lanes.
Also, regardless of if they bring in registering and insurance for them, if someone is using then for work purposes (deliveroo/user eats) then i think they should have to register and insure them.
I had to give up cycling due to health reasons. As I stay in a hilly area a 250w electric bike is pointless therefore when I go out to the shops I have to take the car. Only other option is I passed my driving test in 1977 therefore I could ride a 50cc moped on my licence without any test ?
Luckily the consultation re increasing continuous power and the use of throttles in the UK was completed before the General Election was called. Let’s hope whoever forms the next Government acts on that consultation and doesn’t bin it. Hope all UK residents interested in changing the law on e-bikes actually participated in the consultation rather than just commenting on RUclips 😳