I’d say it’s only bad when these methods are used to completely take someone else’s art and pass it off as your own. If you traced a drawing and gave it to a friend because they liked it or you hang it in your room that’s fine, but if you trace it and are trying to sell or pass it off as you came up with the design yourself then that’s where it’s wrong
I use grid when my objective is on the accuracy of the subject. Mostly on portraits. But in figure drawings or other subjects, I use my eye to measure the relationships of the big shapes. So, it depends on what's your goal.
I tackled this exact same subject and i came into exactly same conclusion as you, but i got torn apart via angry art fans on internet. The reason i got so much negative feedback was, i pointed out the fact, that many internet artists like to hide the fact that they are tracing, and some even go as far as edit the video, to appear as they would have drawn the outline by hand. So my point basically was 1. Tracing is part of handicraft and no biggie 2. Tracing should not be the only way to work. 3. Decieving people to think you are not tracing is not cheating, it's scamming.
All that matters is if you are trying to make money from art. If you're not and it's just for fun, then there's no cheating or anything to worry about. Just do whatever you want. But if you want to to make money from art, and especially if you want to make a living from it, then you have to treat it as a business. And then the only question is how does tracing or grids affect your business? If it helps your artwork to be higher quality and if it can be finished quicker, than that's just efficient and nothing fundamentally wrong with that. Where complications might arise is when your clients and your audience want to know about your working method and how you produce your art. Many people really like to see the art being made, like the incredible videos on this channel. So if you make art but are reliant on tracing or using grids, it is a possibility that some people would be disappointed to see the use of them and would rather see it being made freehand. So then the question would arise of would you be dishonest to people and not tell them that you use methods like tracing or grids because you feel they would be less impressed with your work and less likely to purchase work from you? If that's the case, then that would be dishonest and would be "cheating".
The grid method is a good way to proportion realistic drawings. Drawholic is a professional artist who uses the method. Tracing on the other hand, if your a beginner artist, tracing can help you get a feel of what the right proportions should feel and look like. But, if you continue tracing art that is not yours, it just becomes stealing. (This is just my opinion, so don't hate me.)
I draw realistic portrait via freehand but none can compete with grid due to its accurate proportion results. Keep in mind that youll be erasing the lines after tracing so freehand will take its place.
@@CuriousChronicles82275 I agree 100% I too draw freehand for realistic drawings, but yes the grid method is a good way to proportion drawings with accuracy. One way you can draw with the grid without erasing lines is if you layer your paper over a light tablet with the grid lines under the paper your drawing on.
As first I was always drawing freehandedly, but I struggled to make bigger drawings, so one women suggested me using a grid method. I tried it and started using it almost everytime. But then after years using it I have lost my ability to draw freehanded. 😅 So I trying now to draw without grid and use it just when it's really necessary and useful and can save me time. I absolutely agree with you. 😊👍
Several drawings by Michelangelo reveal he had a problem. He would run out of space and would draw a part of the body, maybe a foot, elsewhere on the paper. The use of a grid would have helped him to pick the correct starting position. Grids help develop a sense of perspective. Some start well enough but then find they are running out of room so start to squeeze things in. Over time a person might make their grids larger as the need might diminish but the important thing is that the person enjoys what they are doing.
I guess I'll be the dissenting opinion on this and say yes for a simple reason.When copying or tracing all your doing is tracing the outlines of an image.But when drawing freehand it forces you to train your hand,eye,and mind to work together to judge accuracy in a more natural way.
You have a good point, if an artist who use grids wants to try other kind of art, he will realize that the grids are useless in that case. You make me change my point of view.
Tracing and grid methods are time savers for me. I can make sure of a good outline then continue on with the finishing the outline and shading by sight. In my opinion if you don’t know how to draw these methods aren’t going to help you much to get away.
I have to be honest that I am awful at grid work on art. It doesn’t work for me. I can copy exactly the squares, but together, it’s a mess. The lines aren’t seamless and flawless. I quit grid work in high school. It didn’t work for me. I agree that using the same method of drawing limits you to that specific thing you’re doing. Do you even remember how to draw without grid lines? Different things like tracing and using grid lines are good to start you out in doing enough art so you can know how to draw without references. Do you always want to be dependent on grids or copying? I think some people get hurt in the last video because they work really hard on the realism and they want their hard work and dedication to be noticed and appreciated. However, I do want to try and explain it like this: Do you want to be an original or a copy of someone else? Britney Spears has a pretty noticeable voice. You can tell when her song comes on the radio. There are very talented singers who can imitate famous voices, but when you hear them, you think it’s the artist and not someone who worked hard for years trying to copy someone else’s voice. My point is: no matter how hard you work or how much time you dedicate to something, BE ORIGINAL. For all that hard work and dedication, I hope people look at your art and say, “I know that person! That’s (insert name).” Or will they look at your artwork and think it’s a piece by the artist you admire and aim to be like?
I'm a beginner and I'm self learning different methods to draw. The Grid method enabled me to draw a portrait that actually looks like the person, as compared to other methods. I'm practising drawing different parts of the human anatomy and their proportions so that I can directly draw them. But till I get good at drawing without grids, I'm gonna stick with it coz it's seriously motivating when you get the results you want. Only drawback is erasing the grids... it takes up too much time and I hate that sometimes if I'm not careful, it leaves ugly marks on the paper even after erasing them....
I don't see it as cheating. I see it as a method of teaching and a time saver. If theres something ive tried drawing 10 times. I'm probably not going to get the proportions right on the 11 so I tell my self to do a more accurate study.
I've always used gridding and tracing to do my art. Yes I've always felt it was cheating, but I've always had a problem with proportion. It works for me.
good analogy, great at beginning to learn the movements and so on (or training wheel in a bike). But at some point ideally u take it off (doesn't mean you can't put it back on when needed and time saving etc) thanks for commenting Sanket.
Grid method helped me draw a portrait that was way beyond the quality of anything I had ever drawn before. I was shocked that I could draw something that good. Over time I will try to move beyond it. after I get better I will try the 5 Pencil method which I don't know yet, but it seems to be about plotting out key measurements and reference points on the photo used and then indicating those on the paper you draw on.
Very well put...depends on the context and intentions behind the art. I think someone who relies on tracing or gridding is hurting themselves long term. It creates an easy route mentality and probably which most often reflects in the rest of the work.
if we call those method cheating, let's ask some classical artist what they can say about modern art. They probably say it is also cheating because modern art doesn't follow the old and tradional way how old paintings were made.
I don’t know how anyone can think the grid method is cheating. It’s all still free handing. It’s like freehanding 144 squares that make up a 12x12 image.
Logically cheating in any aspect of life involves performing actions designed to be hidden or unknown in order to help accomplish a task. Using short cuts in art involves a physical version of lying where the truth of the process is withheld. This makes using grids, tracing and even using a paint-by-number canvas or even using a complex coloring template to create a work of art not cheating since the truth remains subjectively known [unless a piece of art is promoted with a certain integrity of process]. The main problem with these methods is that it can ultimately limit the scope of composition and the acquired talent and skill of the artist as is pointed out in this video.
I always though using Grid art was cheating in a way. Why? Because it’s giving you answers for each square. Same applies to tracing. Call it “assistance or a guide , whatever” I would prefer “Free Hand” for myself personally.
I )ove doing grids, but I also practice free hand drawing. I only use grid drawing to have an image I like that I can not purchase that I want to hang in my house. I also grids for recreating photos I have personally taken. I am also free hand drawing to try ro take what I learned from grid drawings, and other sources like RUclips. So I enjoy both, but if I get the chance to sell art I make the grid method will only be used on a photo I took. Everything else will be free hand, or drawing form life reference.
Its just the outline.... the shadings and details are work of art.... there are no rules in art.... but not giving out credits and stealing someone's work is an exception
I don't consider cheating, but like you said, limiting. If you go and work in the industry, you'll be asked to do changes and many times do initial sketchs to show the art director, and if you are drawing without a "crutch" the better.
can you do more videos tackling the boundaries of art from stealing? for example a certain iconic pose, or a peculiar technique only known to one artist. What is the thin line from copying other art work ?
Is eating healthy food when you're hungry cheating? No Why would tracing be cheating? It's not cheating. The only thing you could say is that you suck, if you can only get your proportions right by using a grid. Which is okay, there are many famous artists that suck at drawing. In the arts everything is possible.
Great to hear your sensible opinion about tracing. I totally agree it is not cheating but can be limiting. It is a tool to assist, how you use that tool could be a benefit or a hinderance, just like any other tool. I remember, back in the days when I was at school using a calculator was considered cheating but with more complex calculations it was a requirement. I am a painter so I quite often practice my drawing separately then trace my drawing onto my canvas. Other times I do not even have a drawing on the canvas and “draw” on the canvas with my paint brush much the same way as you draw, big shapes and shadows first then detail later. 😊 I am always using different methods depending on my mood and what I want to achieve. For me painting is more about my feelings during the process rather than the end result. I’m not going to lie and say I don’t care about the end result, of course I do, it’s just not my main focus sometimes. 😊 thank you for sharing your thoughts and art T x
Though saving time is the same , anyone who needs to trace or use grids for replication are surely less talented than those who can work otherwise ..Maybe it doesn't matter to the customer looking for an exact replica...But somehow the feeling and connection to the work is lost when the focus is on minute areas or starts out with tracing....it maybe a good craft but definitely not pure art
Like i said in your previous video, i use tracing to do the job quickly even though it felt like cheating when i started to use it.. like a huge shorcut taken. Fondations? Measurements? Proportions? Forms? Skipped, i was shocked but now i got used to it. I like to compare portrait to sculpture and tracing/grid to printing or 3d printing? Maybe this example could help understand a bit more the main question. If you're a beginner, you can use these guides to focus on other aspects easier but don't depend on this i think it's a bad habbit to have at this early stage.
I wouldn't necessarily say it's cheating. Sometimes, such as when doing a portrait, when it's crucial to nail the likeness, it's a more definite way to achieve it. The negative thing I'd say about using a grid or tracing is that it can be a crutch. I think it's important to always exercise the drawing skills that you are trying to develop. If you trace or grid, then you rely on those things more than you use your skills.
more a mimic shortcut, and it's the same advantage you would have over someone who can only copy and paste. sure you both get the same letters on the screen but you might as well be two different computer users. Also there are many things where it can take a quick glance by a seasoned art director or professional to know whether it is done by hands of a person with skill or not.
No it’s not cheating. I’ve done it as you said to get to the rendering phase. It can be limiting if you’re not practicing anything else or doing study’s. Art is about that resource of time. Some of us catch on quicker than others. That’s the same as the person that puts the most time writing songs or books, play any sport. You get what you give. Advertising at local art stores or libraries will help spread the word of what you can do and bring in a ton of business. If you draw animals go to vets offices and groomers ask if you can advertise and offer a sample of your work. Just get a basic contract from the internet and get a deposit! lol personal lesson learned. Good luck
Atm, I'm working on a drawing of Papa Emeritus, but I traced the photo. I add shading and my own touches, what would people think of that? Honestly, I find it enjoyable
For me tracing method is not cheating...i do freehand but im not good at it.. so i use tracing because i feel so bad whenever i didn't get the image of the picture proportionally and it ends up stoping from continuing it.. I'm lack of patience sometimes so to help me getting back i use tracing method just to push my self to continue...to those who are good in freehand you are lucky but please never criticize other arist who's making art with these methods...we draw by hand and we are not supposed to criticize others hand just because of these methods.
I use grid for accuracy, proportion and it save time i also use grid to photoshop to create my own art, at the sametime i know i'm gonna have to take the training wheels off, at one point one of my client ask me can i also draw someone in real life, my answer was it would take me along time where as when they see my art to them it look like i can do it
I don't think drawing using grid to make accurate proportions is considered cheating. Keep in mind that freehand is an acquired talent and youll be using this after tracing via grid so you see they work in tandem. Try a none artist do grid and they would be tracing all over the place. However grids cant be applied when you draw a live person it must be freehand. Like I said once you have the knack in freehand and you want to speed up your drawing, go for grids.
Grid artists somehow know in the deep down of their heart that this is not right thing for art . But they a too late to leave it . Change it now or never . Really it will ruin you . I am a grid user too but according my age it not too late for me
yes u going to hell. J/K. Nope, it's all good. even the old masters have used such tools. a possible problem is that you use it so much that you can't draw without it. for commission it is understandable to use it to save time. But otherwise you kinda limit yourself as an artist. So nothing wrong with it, but it can be limiting. hope i'm making sense.
In my personal experience, I also used to do "rendering" than drawing. I loved it at first but now when I showed this to someone and they ask me draw in sight, I couldn't. So I left doing that. But I should tell you it helped me shade very well which is not that bad. Just my opinion
Some comments about tracing: Last year I finished illustrating a book about the link between our face features and personality (the techique is called Al Ferasa), book which had more than 100 illustrations, most of them portraits or face features. All these were done by hand, in pencil. I know how to draw without aids, but here, the exact proportions of certain faces, features, or essential details, was very important. So in my case, tracing some photos that I had to include in the book as drawings, not only ensured that the drawing will have the exact same feature the author wanted, but it also saved a lot of time. On the other hand, tracing was not needed for many illustrations where I had to make a portrait based on photos from the internet which had the features we needed, but I had to make sure the character resemblance was off, so there were no issues with image rights. I can't link here but grids and tracing were used in the Renassaince as well (there is an engraving showing how they worked with this). Of course the great masters knew how to draw without aids, but sometimes they had to copy designs or just cut corners because time was important back then too. Tracing or aids are tools if you already know how to draw. Otherwise they are crutches, they help you with proportions and understanding some basics, but it is like learning to ride the bicycle, you have to let go of the helping wheels at some point.
I don’t understand why people think tracing is “cheating” but using a grid isn’t. What’s the difference? They’re both essentially doing the same thing- copying an image. A grid is just a more time consuming way of tracing I think. I myself am pretty neutral on the matter. I freehand my art, and I think you’re right when you say using grids/tracing is very limiting. But I think it’s silly when people are so against tracing and then use grids in their art.
For me, tracing is a means to an end. Either way the picture will turn out good it's just a matter of efficiency. When I first began my journey with realism in college, I did 100 percent free hand to prove to myself I could do it. It was the least enjoyable part for me. I found it incredibly boring and wanted to get to what I considered the fun part, shading and detailing. Which btw was where I really need improvement. I only shaded w my fingers I had jo clue what tools and methods to use 😅 I proved to myself I could do free hand and decided after receiving multiple requests and not having time to meet the deadlines that I would start tracing to save time. I could do free hand, but I just don't see the point anymore.
If one traces a photo that they took, its fine. I see a lot of students tracing and then entering contests and claiming them as their own. The grid method is good for beginners and children in special education.
Cheating is definitely not cheating, but you'll be stunting your growth or your improvement. A pro art tip is basically drawing what you see. You'll eventually see that you've developed a certain style or technique.
There is no problem with your point of view , it is your way of life and personnal experience.: nobody can discussed that. I just want to add mine about your title video : is it cheat ? it is not matter of cheating , it is matter of training : that is true you can achieved very quickly and well a draw with this method (grid or camera obscura , there are good numeric camera obscura now :) ) Your brain (your eyes and hands) will not have very good behavior, habits with these methods. That is true it is time consuming hundred to thousand hours of intensive drawing) but the reward is freedom to execute anything freely . I understand achievement can be more important but finally it will be a piece of art.
people should sketch more. I forgot who made this quote "if you can sketch and draw, then you can paint". Thanks for leaving a comment Raymond! always good to have a fellow artist visit.
silly argument....why use eye glasses if you have poor eyesight, why use brushes to apply paint when you have fingers, you shouldnt be buying tubes of paint when theres fat oil and earth pigments to work with....why use a ruler anyway? a "proper"artist should be able to draw a perfect straight line freehand...... Its cheating to use lamps or other artificial light, and studio heating. Dont buy pencils when you can dig lumps of graphite directly out of the earth or lumps of charcoal out of the fire....some guy from new york doesnt use any grid or OHP or anything but DOES use bino's to study detail on the model....a proper artist wouldnt use BINO's now would they....theres some crazy notion that"proper" art is some sort of spiritual mystical mystery that only a select few can engage in. When the reality is its 99% BLOODY HARD WORK, and anything that reduces the stress of tedium and speeds up the process and assists the creative flow, is all good. Anyone else used proportional dividers?
well in this case, I think they fall into the "i can only rely on this method trap". So if it's cheating they are cheating against themselves. Unless they just do it for fun then w/e is fine.
Using it as a tool to improve then yes that is fine, using it as your only way of drawing, then you are cheating yourself. You might as well buy a colouring book.
@@kapuanimation5735 no it is not at all,what on earth are you talking about? Do you even know how it works?? Besides, you can use a grid on your own reference pictures. It's just a tool/method. It has nothing whatsoever to do with stealing ideas or copying. 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
I get what Kapu is saying (his statement is under the assumption you are purely copying someone else's owned image) Here we are talking about how people feel about a particular method of drawing, not any legality regarding copyright, which is often in a grey zone since fair use is not super clear. But if you use your own reference (assume u have all the rights) it's all good like GrumpetteJV mentioned. (note just cuz you take your own reference doesn't always mean you have all the rights. For example if another person's face is in the picture, generally you need permission, this is also why google street view blurs out people's faces)
@@ThePortraitArt that's assuming you go for reality. Lots of artists use reference pictures just for pose and proportion. Using a grid is fine in any case and it's not copying. Copying is copying. Like I said, it's just a tool and has nothing to do with the final result.
It's art, every method is completely acceptable as long as you get the results you want
When money is involved. You should add that on the end.
Not really you could plagarise someone else's work to get the results you want, but I wouldn't call it acceptable.
I’d say it’s only bad when these methods are used to completely take someone else’s art and pass it off as your own. If you traced a drawing and gave it to a friend because they liked it or you hang it in your room that’s fine, but if you trace it and are trying to sell or pass it off as you came up with the design yourself then that’s where it’s wrong
I use grid when my objective is on the accuracy of the subject. Mostly on portraits. But in figure drawings or other subjects, I use my eye to measure the relationships of the big shapes. So, it depends on what's your goal.
Leave a comment, if it has a good point I might talk about it in the next commentary video. Cheers!
I created the channel drawing register help Me
I tackled this exact same subject and i came into exactly same conclusion as you, but i got torn apart via angry art fans on internet.
The reason i got so much negative feedback was, i pointed out the fact, that many internet artists like to hide the fact that they are tracing, and some even go as far as edit the video, to appear as they would have drawn the outline by hand.
So my point basically was
1. Tracing is part of handicraft and no biggie
2. Tracing should not be the only way to work.
3. Decieving people to think you are not tracing is not cheating, it's scamming.
All that matters is if you are trying to make money from art. If you're not and it's just for fun, then there's no cheating or anything to worry about. Just do whatever you want.
But if you want to to make money from art, and especially if you want to make a living from it, then you have to treat it as a business. And then the only question is how does tracing or grids affect your business? If it helps your artwork to be higher quality and if it can be finished quicker, than that's just efficient and nothing fundamentally wrong with that. Where complications might arise is when your clients and your audience want to know about your working method and how you produce your art. Many people really like to see the art being made, like the incredible videos on this channel. So if you make art but are reliant on tracing or using grids, it is a possibility that some people would be disappointed to see the use of them and would rather see it being made freehand. So then the question would arise of would you be dishonest to people and not tell them that you use methods like tracing or grids because you feel they would be less impressed with your work and less likely to purchase work from you? If that's the case, then that would be dishonest and would be "cheating".
thats correct
Thank you so much
As long as you get the job done, Grids, tracing or projection is fine. So is media mixing. Do what you have to do to get the effect you want.
Not cheating at all. Only art snobs say it's cheating.
Only people who need to use it can’t truly draw
The grid method is a good way to proportion realistic drawings. Drawholic is a professional artist who uses the method. Tracing on the other hand, if your a beginner artist, tracing can help you get a feel of what the right proportions should feel and look like. But, if you continue tracing art that is not yours, it just becomes stealing. (This is just my opinion, so don't hate me.)
But it will close your limits .
I draw realistic portrait via freehand but none can compete with grid due to its accurate proportion results. Keep in mind that youll be erasing the lines after tracing so freehand will take its place.
@@CuriousChronicles82275 I agree 100% I too draw freehand for realistic drawings, but yes the grid method is a good way to proportion drawings with accuracy. One way you can draw with the grid without erasing lines is if you layer your paper over a light tablet with the grid lines under the paper your drawing on.
@@debangshuarts2688 not if you use them right. But yes in some cases it does.
I was wondering if drawholic uses a grid but I could never see it in the video. I thought they just free hand all the drawings lol
As first I was always drawing freehandedly, but I struggled to make bigger drawings, so one women suggested me using a grid method. I tried it and started using it almost everytime. But then after years using it I have lost my ability to draw freehanded. 😅 So I trying now to draw without grid and use it just when it's really necessary and useful and can save me time. I absolutely agree with you. 😊👍
Same I always freehand but I plan on using the grid method once to see how it is but I probably wont use the grid method regularly
Haven't seen the vid. But my take on it. No, it is not cheating. Some of my favorite professional artists use the geid method.
Several drawings by Michelangelo reveal he had a problem. He would run out of space and would draw a part of the body, maybe a foot, elsewhere on the paper. The use of a grid would have helped him to pick the correct starting position. Grids help develop a sense of perspective. Some start well enough but then find they are running out of room so start to squeeze things in. Over time a person might make their grids larger as the need might diminish but the important thing is that the person enjoys what they are doing.
Bruh, what are you talking about
It is not cheating but it limits the area in which artist can draw.
I guess I'll be the dissenting opinion on this and say yes for a simple reason.When copying or tracing all your doing is tracing the outlines of an image.But when drawing freehand it forces you to train your hand,eye,and mind to work together to judge accuracy in a more natural way.
You have a good point, if an artist who use grids wants to try other kind of art, he will realize that the grids are useless in that case. You make me change my point of view.
I dont think its cheating, but it's good to practice without them also.
Tracing and grid methods are time savers for me. I can make sure of a good outline then continue on with the finishing the outline and shading by sight. In my opinion if you don’t know how to draw these methods aren’t going to help you much to get away.
I have to be honest that I am awful at grid work on art. It doesn’t work for me. I can copy exactly the squares, but together, it’s a mess. The lines aren’t seamless and flawless. I quit grid work in high school. It didn’t work for me.
I agree that using the same method of drawing limits you to that specific thing you’re doing. Do you even remember how to draw without grid lines? Different things like tracing and using grid lines are good to start you out in doing enough art so you can know how to draw without references. Do you always want to be dependent on grids or copying?
I think some people get hurt in the last video because they work really hard on the realism and they want their hard work and dedication to be noticed and appreciated. However, I do want to try and explain it like this:
Do you want to be an original or a copy of someone else?
Britney Spears has a pretty noticeable voice. You can tell when her song comes on the radio. There are very talented singers who can imitate famous voices, but when you hear them, you think it’s the artist and not someone who worked hard for years trying to copy someone else’s voice.
My point is: no matter how hard you work or how much time you dedicate to something, BE ORIGINAL. For all that hard work and dedication, I hope people look at your art and say, “I know that person! That’s (insert name).” Or will they look at your artwork and think it’s a piece by the artist you admire and aim to be like?
I'm a beginner and I'm self learning different methods to draw. The Grid method enabled me to draw a portrait that actually looks like the person, as compared to other methods. I'm practising drawing different parts of the human anatomy and their proportions so that I can directly draw them. But till I get good at drawing without grids, I'm gonna stick with it coz it's seriously motivating when you get the results you want. Only drawback is erasing the grids... it takes up too much time and I hate that sometimes if I'm not careful, it leaves ugly marks on the paper even after erasing them....
I don't see it as cheating. I see it as a method of teaching and a time saver. If theres something ive tried drawing 10 times. I'm probably not going to get the proportions right on the 11 so I tell my self to do a more accurate study.
Skill matters in art
I've always used gridding and tracing to do my art. Yes I've always felt it was cheating, but I've always had a problem with proportion. It works for me.
Using grid is like swimming with a support!
good analogy, great at beginning to learn the movements and so on (or training wheel in a bike). But at some point ideally u take it off (doesn't mean you can't put it back on when needed and time saving etc) thanks for commenting Sanket.
Both methods are great for practicing techniques and learning form. In the end, art is art. Money shouldn't be the ultimate end goal.
Grid method helped me draw a portrait that was way beyond the quality of anything I had ever drawn before. I was shocked that I could draw something that good. Over time I will try to move beyond it. after I get better I will try the 5 Pencil method which I don't know yet, but it seems to be about plotting out key measurements and reference points on the photo used and then indicating those on the paper you draw on.
Very well put...depends on the context and intentions behind the art. I think someone who relies on tracing or gridding is hurting themselves long term. It creates an easy route mentality and probably which most often reflects in the rest of the work.
if we call those method cheating, let's ask some classical artist what they can say about modern art. They probably say it is also cheating because modern art doesn't follow the old and tradional way how old paintings were made.
I try to practice all forms, freehand and trace/rendering.....I enjoy all of it.
I don’t know how anyone can think the grid method is cheating. It’s all still free handing. It’s like freehanding 144 squares that make up a 12x12 image.
Logically cheating in any aspect of life involves performing actions designed to be hidden or unknown in order to help accomplish a task. Using short cuts in art involves a physical version of lying where the truth of the process is withheld. This makes using grids, tracing and even using a paint-by-number canvas or even using a complex coloring template to create a work of art not cheating since the truth remains subjectively known [unless a piece of art is promoted with a certain integrity of process]. The main problem with these methods is that it can ultimately limit the scope of composition and the acquired talent and skill of the artist as is pointed out in this video.
I always though using Grid art was cheating in a way. Why? Because it’s giving you answers for each square. Same applies to tracing. Call it “assistance or a guide , whatever” I would prefer “Free Hand” for myself personally.
I )ove doing grids, but I also practice free hand drawing. I only use grid drawing to have an image I like that I can not purchase that I want to hang in my house. I also grids for recreating photos I have personally taken. I am also free hand drawing to try ro take what I learned from grid drawings, and other sources like RUclips. So I enjoy both, but if I get the chance to sell art I make the grid method will only be used on a photo I took. Everything else will be free hand, or drawing form life reference.
sure, it's a tool. Use it correctly and it's all good. Cheers.
I agree that whatever tool you need to get the job done is acceptable, who is judging anyway, Great work!
Its just the outline.... the shadings and details are work of art.... there are no rules in art.... but not giving out credits and stealing someone's work is an exception
Can you start a piece like this from the very beginning? I've noticed alot of TY channels do the same as you and start after you have your lay out.
I don't consider cheating, but like you said, limiting. If you go and work in the industry, you'll be asked to do changes and many times do initial sketchs to show the art director, and if you are drawing without a "crutch" the better.
can you do more videos tackling the boundaries of art from stealing? for example a certain iconic pose, or a peculiar technique only known to one artist. What is the thin line from copying other art work ?
Cheating is puting four white blank canvas on frame spilling some paint on it like a maniac and then calling it an art set.
lol i know what u mean but it's like, that's good hustling? :)
Great information and insight! It can serve a purpose and save time.
Is eating healthy food when you're hungry cheating? No
Why would tracing be cheating? It's not cheating.
The only thing you could say is that you suck, if you can only get your proportions right by using a grid. Which is okay, there are many famous artists that suck at drawing. In the arts everything is possible.
Great to hear your sensible opinion about tracing. I totally agree it is not cheating but can be limiting. It is a tool to assist, how you use that tool could be a benefit or a hinderance, just like any other tool. I remember, back in the days when I was at school using a calculator was considered cheating but with more complex calculations it was a requirement. I am a painter so I quite often practice my drawing separately then trace my drawing onto my canvas. Other times I do not even have a drawing on the canvas and “draw” on the canvas with my paint brush much the same way as you draw, big shapes and shadows first then detail later. 😊 I am always using different methods depending on my mood and what I want to achieve. For me painting is more about my feelings during the process rather than the end result. I’m not going to lie and say I don’t care about the end result, of course I do, it’s just not my main focus sometimes. 😊 thank you for sharing your thoughts and art T x
Thanks Tartantaz.
Though saving time is the same , anyone who needs to trace or use grids for replication are surely less talented than those who can work otherwise ..Maybe it doesn't matter to the customer looking for an exact replica...But somehow the feeling and connection to the work is lost when the focus is on minute areas or starts out with tracing....it maybe a good craft but definitely not pure art
Like i said in your previous video, i use tracing to do the job quickly even though it felt like cheating when i started to use it.. like a huge shorcut taken. Fondations? Measurements? Proportions? Forms? Skipped, i was shocked but now i got used to it. I like to compare portrait to sculpture and tracing/grid to printing or 3d printing? Maybe this example could help understand a bit more the main question. If you're a beginner, you can use these guides to focus on other aspects easier but don't depend on this i think it's a bad habbit to have at this early stage.
I wouldn't necessarily say it's cheating. Sometimes, such as when doing a portrait, when it's crucial to nail the likeness, it's a more definite way to achieve it. The negative thing I'd say about using a grid or tracing is that it can be a crutch. I think it's important to always exercise the drawing skills that you are trying to develop. If you trace or grid, then you rely on those things more than you use your skills.
Find it helpful😊
Thanks
But if an amatuer uses this and achieve a result a good as ones who draws regularly, isnt that like an advantage?
more a mimic shortcut, and it's the same advantage you would have over someone who can only copy and paste. sure you both get the same letters on the screen but you might as well be two different computer users. Also there are many things where it can take a quick glance by a seasoned art director or professional to know whether it is done by hands of a person with skill or not.
No it’s not cheating. I’ve done it as you said to get to the rendering phase. It can be limiting if you’re not practicing anything else or doing study’s. Art is about that resource of time. Some of us catch on quicker than others. That’s the same as the person that puts the most time writing songs or books, play any sport. You get what you give. Advertising at local art stores or libraries will help spread the word of what you can do and bring in a ton of business. If you draw animals go to vets offices and groomers ask if you can advertise and offer a sample of your work. Just get a basic contract from the internet and get a deposit! lol personal lesson learned. Good luck
how do i even start grid when im not good at tracing the ruler T_T
Atm, I'm working on a drawing of Papa Emeritus, but I traced the photo. I add shading and my own touches, what would people think of that? Honestly, I find it enjoyable
For me tracing method is not cheating...i do freehand but im not good at it.. so i use tracing because i feel so bad whenever i didn't get the image of the picture proportionally and it ends up stoping from continuing it.. I'm lack of patience sometimes so to help me getting back i use tracing method just to push my self to continue...to those who are good in freehand you are lucky but please never criticize other arist who's making art with these methods...we draw by hand and we are not supposed to criticize others hand just because of these methods.
I use grid for accuracy, proportion and it save time i also use grid to photoshop to create my own art, at the sametime i know i'm gonna have to take the training wheels off, at one point one of my client ask me can i also draw someone in real life, my answer was it would take me along time where as when they see my art to them it look like i can do it
My way on tracing is i use screen in laptop to get the exactly outline. Im newbie. Someone can tell me it is wrong or what
I don't think drawing using grid to make accurate proportions is considered cheating. Keep in mind that freehand is an acquired talent and youll be using this after tracing via grid so you see they work in tandem. Try a none artist do grid and they would be tracing all over the place.
However grids cant be applied when you draw a live person it must be freehand. Like I said once you have the knack in freehand and you want to speed up your drawing, go for grids.
Grid artists somehow know in the deep down of their heart that this is not right thing for art . But they a too late to leave it . Change it now or never . Really it will ruin you .
I am a grid user too but according my age it not too late for me
I make great portraits and make money of it , but i use tracing , is that bad ?
yes u going to hell. J/K. Nope, it's all good. even the old masters have used such tools. a possible problem is that you use it so much that you can't draw without it. for commission it is understandable to use it to save time. But otherwise you kinda limit yourself as an artist. So nothing wrong with it, but it can be limiting. hope i'm making sense.
depends on what you are tracing because you make money of it
I traced one time but I prefer referencing a picture with my eyes
In my personal experience, I also used to do "rendering" than drawing. I loved it at first but now when I showed this to someone and they ask me draw in sight, I couldn't. So I left doing that.
But I should tell you it helped me shade very well which is not that bad.
Just my opinion
Excuse me, what do you mean with "rendering"
@@isacssj4 you know those realistic drawing which takes weeks to finish... Those, I was pretty good at it. But yeah my imagination was a big LOL
perfectly ok the end result is what counts it is just pat of the tools
Some comments about tracing: Last year I finished illustrating a book about the link between our face features and personality (the techique is called Al Ferasa), book which had more than 100 illustrations, most of them portraits or face features. All these were done by hand, in pencil. I know how to draw without aids, but here, the exact proportions of certain faces, features, or essential details, was very important. So in my case, tracing some photos that I had to include in the book as drawings, not only ensured that the drawing will have the exact same feature the author wanted, but it also saved a lot of time. On the other hand, tracing was not needed for many illustrations where I had to make a portrait based on photos from the internet which had the features we needed, but I had to make sure the character resemblance was off, so there were no issues with image rights. I can't link here but grids and tracing were used in the Renassaince as well (there is an engraving showing how they worked with this). Of course the great masters knew how to draw without aids, but sometimes they had to copy designs or just cut corners because time was important back then too. Tracing or aids are tools if you already know how to draw. Otherwise they are crutches, they help you with proportions and understanding some basics, but it is like learning to ride the bicycle, you have to let go of the helping wheels at some point.
right. thanks for sharing george
I don’t understand why people think tracing is “cheating” but using a grid isn’t. What’s the difference? They’re both essentially doing the same thing- copying an image. A grid is just a more time consuming way of tracing I think.
I myself am pretty neutral on the matter. I freehand my art, and I think you’re right when you say using grids/tracing is very limiting. But I think it’s silly when people are so against tracing and then use grids in their art.
For me, tracing is a means to an end. Either way the picture will turn out good it's just a matter of efficiency. When I first began my journey with realism in college, I did 100 percent free hand to prove to myself I could do it. It was the least enjoyable part for me. I found it incredibly boring and wanted to get to what I considered the fun part, shading and detailing. Which btw was where I really need improvement. I only shaded w my fingers I had jo clue what tools and methods to use 😅 I proved to myself I could do free hand and decided after receiving multiple requests and not having time to meet the deadlines that I would start tracing to save time. I could do free hand, but I just don't see the point anymore.
Spot on analysis!
If one traces a photo that they took, its fine. I see a lot of students tracing and then entering contests and claiming them as their own. The grid method is good for beginners and children in special education.
i agree with you using grid is a limit
I'm and my father using grid and this is good to training your eyes and Brain and this is good and easy .
Cheating is definitely not cheating, but you'll be stunting your growth or your improvement. A pro art tip is basically drawing what you see. You'll eventually see that you've developed a certain style or technique.
There's tons of people out there who know only how to trace, and don't know how to draw anything without tracing it.
I agree. You are a great debater.
thanks PJ for the kind words, I just try to present the facts. they should make the point for you if done right.
short and long answer. NO. it's not a sport. whatever gets the bills paid.
There is no problem with your point of view , it is your way of life and personnal experience.: nobody can discussed that.
I just want to add mine about your title video : is it cheat ? it is not matter of cheating , it is matter of training : that is true you can achieved very quickly and well a draw with this method (grid or camera obscura , there are good numeric camera obscura now :) )
Your brain (your eyes and hands) will not have very good behavior, habits with these methods.
That is true it is time consuming hundred to thousand hours of intensive drawing) but the reward is freedom to execute anything freely .
I understand achievement can be more important but finally it will be a piece of art.
thanks for the comment Fanalooker.
Hope it's not cheating I trace all the time. But I have done my dues and sketched for thousands of hours over the years.
people should sketch more. I forgot who made this quote "if you can sketch and draw, then you can paint". Thanks for leaving a comment Raymond! always good to have a fellow artist visit.
If you want to draw while learning nothing, use grid.
You're right, many professional artist that secretly uses grid cant draw freehand😂
this just reminds me of joana ceddia cuz she uses a grid
Same as if you learnt to drive on an automatic car and doesn’t know how to use manual shift.
Yes, Goldbrickers. Yes, it is.
I think I am limiting
😘😘😘😘✌🎨
good video
silly argument....why use eye glasses if you have poor eyesight, why use brushes to apply paint when you have fingers, you shouldnt be buying tubes of paint when theres fat oil and earth pigments to work with....why use a ruler anyway? a "proper"artist should be able to draw a perfect straight line freehand...... Its cheating to use lamps or other artificial light, and studio heating. Dont buy pencils when you can dig lumps of graphite directly out of the earth or lumps of charcoal out of the fire....some guy from new york doesnt use any grid or OHP or anything but DOES use bino's to study detail on the model....a proper artist wouldnt use BINO's now would they....theres some crazy notion that"proper" art is some sort of spiritual mystical mystery that only a select few can engage in. When the reality is its 99% BLOODY HARD WORK, and anything that reduces the stress of tedium and speeds up the process and assists the creative flow, is all good. Anyone else used proportional dividers?
Yes it’s cheating
It is not cheating. But you are not learning how to draw. You are learning how to copy.
This is so unnecessary video. Grid# is fine period. I used to use it to be more accurate after a while I stopped using it. There’s no cheating on art
In my opinion using grid is cheating, I have seen bigners who use grid there skills not improve.
well in this case, I think they fall into the "i can only rely on this method trap". So if it's cheating they are cheating against themselves. Unless they just do it for fun then w/e is fine.
@@ThePortraitArt Totally, agree with you man!
It’s definitely cheating
i think it is cheating
Using it as a tool to improve then yes that is fine, using it as your only way of drawing, then you are cheating yourself. You might as well buy a colouring book.
Yes if you publish it or make profit out of it.
No if you make tutorial about it or education purposes
False. You are talking about copying, and that's not the same as using a grid.
@@GrumpetteJV grid is copying somebody idea..
@@kapuanimation5735 no it is not at all,what on earth are you talking about? Do you even know how it works?? Besides, you can use a grid on your own reference pictures. It's just a tool/method. It has nothing whatsoever to do with stealing ideas or copying. 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
I get what Kapu is saying (his statement is under the assumption you are purely copying someone else's owned image) Here we are talking about how people feel about a particular method of drawing, not any legality regarding copyright, which is often in a grey zone since fair use is not super clear. But if you use your own reference (assume u have all the rights) it's all good like GrumpetteJV mentioned. (note just cuz you take your own reference doesn't always mean you have all the rights. For example if another person's face is in the picture, generally you need permission, this is also why google street view blurs out people's faces)
@@ThePortraitArt that's assuming you go for reality. Lots of artists use reference pictures just for pose and proportion. Using a grid is fine in any case and it's not copying. Copying is copying. Like I said, it's just a tool and has nothing to do with the final result.
It´s art, no doubt about it.