They certainly did some historical researches when designing the game, but not enough. If I were the chief designer of the Chinese civ I'd focus on the North vs South dichotomy (historically the north and south of China were often divided and even today there's still a visible dichotomy between the two), and I'd design the civ as follows: For the Dark Age both would start at the Tang Dynasty there's nothing special to mention, and the units would be roughly the same as well. From the Feudal Age the differences would start to appear, you can choose to upgrade your Tang Dynasty civ into either the Liao Dynasty (North China) or the Song Dynasty (South China). They would have a few different units too. For instance if you choose to upgrade to Liao Dynasty you'll get the Khitan Raider, which is a light cavalry similar to the Steppe Rider in AoE3. And you won't get any crossbow units instead you'll get something like a Khitan composite bowman. And if you choose the Song Dynasty you'll not only get the familiar Chu Ko Nu but you'll also get something called a Paper-Armored Militia, which is a fast infantry unit wearing paper armor and wielding a bamboo spear and is good at raiding. In the Castle Age the differences would be even more apparent. The North China path would lead you to the Jin Dynasty, whereas the South China path would lead you to the South Song or the Cham Song (at this time South China had a lot of contacts with the Champa kingdom in SE Asia and the Cham Song kingdom is based on a what-if scenario: what if Champa pirates and merchants managed to take control of South China?). The Khitan Raider that you got before would upgrade itself either to the Jurchen Guaizima (a Jurchen horse archer) or to the Jurchen Tiefutu (a heavy shock cavalry). And the Khitan composite bowman would upgrade itself to the Jurchen recurve bowman. In a similar fashion, the humble Chu Ko Nu would upgrade itself either to the Shenbigong Heavy Crossbowman or to the Doengh Poison Crossbowman, and the Paper-Armored Militia would upgrade itself either to the Vijaya Raider (Pirates of SE Asian origin), the Doengh Wolf Trooper (light raiding infantry of the native Doengh people armed with saber and shield), or the Hmong Warrior (a heavy spearman with a pavise shield clad in full leather armor and accompanied by a war dog). And in the Imperial Age the possibilities are even more numerous. The North China path would lead you to the Yuan Dynasty with even more steppe related units, whereas the South China path would probably lead you to a navy and infantry powerhouse and possibly even some elephant units as well.
After looking at your RUclips, I deleted all my previous comments. Not that I agree but I realized that I discovered something bigger than this game or just opinions. I wish you the best but I just don’t agree with your both the contents you posted in your channel or the life attitude. Plus, you can advertise your theories and people will do their research. Peace bro.
Paper armor was already invented and used by the Tang dynasty. Ming dynasty is when it became "famous". Song dynasty troops were heavily armored. As much if not more than the Jin Iron Pagoda cataphract cavalry. It sounds like you want a degenerate Chinese civilization rather than a proper Chinese civilization represented for game purposes. "Chu Ko Nu" was hardly used by the Song dynasty but instead the Shenbi Nu was used instead. The world's best crossbows at the time. The Chu Ko Nu fell out of use by the Ming dynasty and only remnant use by the Qing period. It should really only be used for Han dynasty period games and settings in whatever. What the fuck is the Cham Song. Clearly a degenerate. The Guaizima system was employed by the Song dynasty when it's cavalrymen was faltering. After a long period of neglect for its cavalry. The Song dynasty needed to chain its cavalry together to force its cavalry to stand their ground against northern cavalry. It was also used by the infantry to trip and entangle northern cavalry. No reason and highly unlikely would northern cavalry use such a tactic that harmed itself. And Guaizima were not horse archers. Makes no sense a raider unit then transitions either or to a horse archer or shock cataphract just like that. Instead should be new units unlocked. Again, regarding the Chu Ko Nu. Just such a stupid unit that a Chinese like myself is fucking annoyed seeing over and over again. Now you just go into full blown let's fan girl for South East Asian culture plays rather than proper Chinese civilization features. I can't even for your Imperial Age nonsense. Inherently the Chinese civilization has been in an "Imperial" fashion since 221 BCE. All the way up to 1911 CE. So dynasties should correspond a bit to the Age setting that AOE has gone for. It wouldn't be Yuan dynasty but Ming or Qing. Yuan dynasty is a continuation of the Song dynasty's era. And the Chinese have had strong cavalry since the Han dynasty era. Makes no sense to throw it all out to be horse archer raider degenerate base. It wouldn't match the civilization pros and cons that is the setting for the Chinese civilization. During the early Ming dynasty, short of the terror of the Tamerlane. No other state in the world was as strong as the Ming in the navy, infantry, or cavalry fields. Elephant units were hardly used because it wasn't worth it. No reason such a "cliche niche" such as yours should be for the Chinese civilization. Most people around the world shit on the Chinese. There's no reason to debuff the Chinese in AOE4 like your nonsense.
Bro u'r soo good that in the very first minute i just stopped the video and said to myself, lemme just drop a like in case that i forget and then i started to watch the rest of video, thanks a lot
Ming dynasty is like a trap in current version. First, it's just too expensive, which requires 4800 food and 2400 gold to unlock. Those high amount of resources might just be the resources you need to win the game, not to mention in 1v1you may never have that amount of resources. Second, adding 10% hp to all units seems to be not as good as having extra 15% movement speed to all except siege units. Palace guards and fire lancers are strong raiding units, with the speed bonus they are just too fast to get caught by units that can counter them. But if you wanna fight a truly late game with lots of siege units, ignore this one. Third, the dynasty unit of Ming --- grenadier, is absolutely the most weird units in the game. It requires 4.8k food and 2.4k gold to unlock, itself requires a lot of resources to train. Yet it's neither good at raiding nor fighting. It moves slow, attack range is only 3,the (splash) damage is low and the splash area is small. Why don't I just build Nest of bees in this case? I think the Ming dynasty bonus should change to buff gunpowder units by giveing extra attack speed, and the tech that add range to handgunners should also apply to grenadiers. Then nuff firelancer, bombard and nest of bees a little.
I agree, as a China main I very rarely go into Ming dynasty. I usually start with Song and when the economy is up an running I switch to Yuan but you never feel the need to go to Ming because basically the extra health does not compensate the insane amount of quick spam you can make with the extra movement speed, and in late game with China you rarely struggle with resources so you can produce more units that reach the front line faster. Ming is very situational, most of the times I get there for example if I'm playing agains a very defensive HRE player where super buffed buildings and troops require me to go very heavy on siege and cannot afford to lose it so I need extra health both for the siege itself and the units defending it.
Google/YoutTube have to improve content quality evaluation. You are the best or the second best in your game and ethically correct (Marinelord, but you beat him, Whamen top 1 Quickmatch, damm!!, she and Faye are probably part of the Top 10 E-Sports-Women in the world. And, you enabled this great women. Gonna support your business!! AoE4 & AoE2 communities are great.Gonna think Stormgate will be same??
In an extended team or FFA game I feel like having access to all landmarks is kind of broken or does that not come in to play as much as it seems like it would? Edit: after watching all of these I see why everyone is disappointed in ottoman. Everyone is better and has unique upgrades for what ottoman is supposed to be good at.
Not many people are using those kind of switches on their keyboards, given the amount of key presses you have to do per video and the loudness of your keyboard why wouldn't you spend a little more money to have a really nice silent keyboard?. i.e keychrone or modded stuff...The tech is leaps and bounds ahead of what it was 5 years ago.
When I watch good aoe players they’re often spamming keys and clicks, whereas I’m a noob and just click on things and use A key to send units to attack. If there’s a guide for basically being faster with everything let me know!!
its for a couple reasons one of which is the fact that at the highest level they need to perform lots of actions per minute so doing all the clicks and hotkey checks keeps them in the mindset of being fast and responsive not slow. Another is the prior statement regarding hotkeys they are just getting comfortable with pressing and their hotkeys
they went from best siege to ... literally not even good siege lol. especially since you can't IO-boost the clocktower like you used to be able to back in the day.
They still have very good siege and with the upcoming update it will get even better. As trebs will become a more castle-oriented unit that will be killed more easily and deals less damage, in late game bombards will become a thing and in terms of bombards chinese are insane. Nest of bees still remains a very effective unit. Now you can make rams with extra health in clocktower, which is insane considering where the rams are in the current meta. In terms of anti-siege, you basically have springalds with extra health, which is by itself better than most civs excluding the ones with culverin. I mean guys I'm a China main but I try to be as objective as possible, in terms of siege China doesn't need buffs, it's very good. You are just complaining probably because you like the civ and you would like to see it buffed all the way around, but that's not how things work. If there's anything I would change / buff it's Ming Dynasty, which is usually not that useful in most situations.
@@teomarik China's siege during age 3 is fully ok, but for age 4 the tech which extends range on ALL gunpowder units would be great to see back in the game
Situation be like "OMG China is so cool I have so many options" and then you realise you don't have enough APM and macro ability to manage all that crap and in imperial you realise you official is still supervising the very first gold mine you have finished at minute 10 😂😂😂
Bro SC2 needs you and you know it... EDIT: Bro you looking good at least youre working on yourself lol... EDIT #2: Bro this game is *CLEARLY* too easy for you... EDIT #3: Yuh boi just beat Maru ffs... EDIT #4: Who is paying you to do this lol
Just got the game last week and ur videos have been extremely helpful 🙏💯
Same here ! well done and thank you for the content !
I learned so much about Imperial Officials, thanks!
I was waiting for that one, thanks!
Hopefully the Build order next? If possible, not the feudal one ahah
looking forward to this so badly! Thank you sir!
Was sitting here coming back after not playing since the release of the game wondering how to learn how to play Chinese again 😂 how convenient
finallyyyy I’ve been waiting for this, Chinese is my main and always will be
finally, now i can play chinese and actually know what im doing
thanks
They certainly did some historical researches when designing the game, but not enough. If I were the chief designer of the Chinese civ I'd focus on the North vs South dichotomy (historically the north and south of China were often divided and even today there's still a visible dichotomy between the two), and I'd design the civ as follows:
For the Dark Age both would start at the Tang Dynasty there's nothing special to mention, and the units would be roughly the same as well.
From the Feudal Age the differences would start to appear, you can choose to upgrade your Tang Dynasty civ into either the Liao Dynasty (North China) or the Song Dynasty (South China). They would have a few different units too. For instance if you choose to upgrade to Liao Dynasty you'll get the Khitan Raider, which is a light cavalry similar to the Steppe Rider in AoE3. And you won't get any crossbow units instead you'll get something like a Khitan composite bowman. And if you choose the Song Dynasty you'll not only get the familiar Chu Ko Nu but you'll also get something called a Paper-Armored Militia, which is a fast infantry unit wearing paper armor and wielding a bamboo spear and is good at raiding.
In the Castle Age the differences would be even more apparent. The North China path would lead you to the Jin Dynasty, whereas the South China path would lead you to the South Song or the Cham Song (at this time South China had a lot of contacts with the Champa kingdom in SE Asia and the Cham Song kingdom is based on a what-if scenario: what if Champa pirates and merchants managed to take control of South China?). The Khitan Raider that you got before would upgrade itself either to the Jurchen Guaizima (a Jurchen horse archer) or to the Jurchen Tiefutu (a heavy shock cavalry). And the Khitan composite bowman would upgrade itself to the Jurchen recurve bowman. In a similar fashion, the humble Chu Ko Nu would upgrade itself either to the Shenbigong Heavy Crossbowman or to the Doengh Poison Crossbowman, and the Paper-Armored Militia would upgrade itself either to the Vijaya Raider (Pirates of SE Asian origin), the Doengh Wolf Trooper (light raiding infantry of the native Doengh people armed with saber and shield), or the Hmong Warrior (a heavy spearman with a pavise shield clad in full leather armor and accompanied by a war dog).
And in the Imperial Age the possibilities are even more numerous. The North China path would lead you to the Yuan Dynasty with even more steppe related units, whereas the South China path would probably lead you to a navy and infantry powerhouse and possibly even some elephant units as well.
After looking at your RUclips, I deleted all my previous comments. Not that I agree but I realized that I discovered something bigger than this game or just opinions. I wish you the best but I just don’t agree with your both the contents you posted in your channel or the life attitude. Plus, you can advertise your theories and people will do their research. Peace bro.
Paper armor was already invented and used by the Tang dynasty. Ming dynasty is when it became "famous". Song dynasty troops were heavily armored. As much if not more than the Jin Iron Pagoda cataphract cavalry. It sounds like you want a degenerate Chinese civilization rather than a proper Chinese civilization represented for game purposes. "Chu Ko Nu" was hardly used by the Song dynasty but instead the Shenbi Nu was used instead. The world's best crossbows at the time. The Chu Ko Nu fell out of use by the Ming dynasty and only remnant use by the Qing period. It should really only be used for Han dynasty period games and settings in whatever.
What the fuck is the Cham Song. Clearly a degenerate.
The Guaizima system was employed by the Song dynasty when it's cavalrymen was faltering. After a long period of neglect for its cavalry. The Song dynasty needed to chain its cavalry together to force its cavalry to stand their ground against northern cavalry. It was also used by the infantry to trip and entangle northern cavalry. No reason and highly unlikely would northern cavalry use such a tactic that harmed itself. And Guaizima were not horse archers. Makes no sense a raider unit then transitions either or to a horse archer or shock cataphract just like that. Instead should be new units unlocked. Again, regarding the Chu Ko Nu. Just such a stupid unit that a Chinese like myself is fucking annoyed seeing over and over again. Now you just go into full blown let's fan girl for South East Asian culture plays rather than proper Chinese civilization features.
I can't even for your Imperial Age nonsense. Inherently the Chinese civilization has been in an "Imperial" fashion since 221 BCE. All the way up to 1911 CE. So dynasties should correspond a bit to the Age setting that AOE has gone for. It wouldn't be Yuan dynasty but Ming or Qing. Yuan dynasty is a continuation of the Song dynasty's era. And the Chinese have had strong cavalry since the Han dynasty era. Makes no sense to throw it all out to be horse archer raider degenerate base. It wouldn't match the civilization pros and cons that is the setting for the Chinese civilization. During the early Ming dynasty, short of the terror of the Tamerlane. No other state in the world was as strong as the Ming in the navy, infantry, or cavalry fields. Elephant units were hardly used because it wasn't worth it. No reason such a "cliche niche" such as yours should be for the Chinese civilization. Most people around the world shit on the Chinese. There's no reason to debuff the Chinese in AOE4 like your nonsense.
I think after going to Song, the scout vision bonus from Tang will disappear
Bro u'r soo good that in the very first minute i just stopped the video and said to myself, lemme just drop a like in case that i forget and then i started to watch the rest of video, thanks a lot
i wasnt know that we are losing previous dynasty bonus once we move forward ! thnx man
Great stuff! Thanks!
Ming dynasty is like a trap in current version.
First, it's just too expensive, which requires 4800 food and 2400 gold to unlock. Those high amount of resources might just be the resources you need to win the game, not to mention in 1v1you may never have that amount of resources.
Second, adding 10% hp to all units seems to be not as good as having extra 15% movement speed to all except siege units. Palace guards and fire lancers are strong raiding units, with the speed bonus they are just too fast to get caught by units that can counter them. But if you wanna fight a truly late game with lots of siege units, ignore this one.
Third, the dynasty unit of Ming --- grenadier, is absolutely the most weird units in the game. It requires 4.8k food and 2.4k gold to unlock, itself requires a lot of resources to train. Yet it's neither good at raiding nor fighting. It moves slow, attack range is only 3,the (splash) damage is low and the splash area is small. Why don't I just build Nest of bees in this case?
I think the Ming dynasty bonus should change to buff gunpowder units by giveing extra attack speed, and the tech that add range to handgunners should also apply to grenadiers. Then nuff firelancer, bombard and nest of bees a little.
I agree, as a China main I very rarely go into Ming dynasty. I usually start with Song and when the economy is up an running I switch to Yuan but you never feel the need to go to Ming because basically the extra health does not compensate the insane amount of quick spam you can make with the extra movement speed, and in late game with China you rarely struggle with resources so you can produce more units that reach the front line faster. Ming is very situational, most of the times I get there for example if I'm playing agains a very defensive HRE player where super buffed buildings and troops require me to go very heavy on siege and cannot afford to lose it so I need extra health both for the siege itself and the units defending it.
Now just imagine the developers allow all those perks to stack up as you age through each dynasty all the way to the Ming.
they should buff the Ming either to keep the Yuan bonus, or if not then increase to 20% hp
Pagodas could come in handy on maps where you get unlucky with stone.
Thanks for the video.
Google/YoutTube have to improve content quality evaluation. You are the best or the second best in your game and ethically correct (Marinelord, but you beat him, Whamen top 1 Quickmatch, damm!!, she and Faye are probably part of the Top 10 E-Sports-Women in the world. And, you enabled this great women. Gonna support your business!!
AoE4 & AoE2 communities are great.Gonna think Stormgate will be same??
Thanks, please make a strategy guide for Chinese.
Now they can make clocktower supervisable or revert pyrotechnics, and it might not even make Chinese broken.
Supervise clocktower would be broken as hell for a fast castle + all rams attack. It would be pretty unfair, and I'm a China main.
In an extended team or FFA game I feel like having access to all landmarks is kind of broken or does that not come in to play as much as it seems like it would?
Edit: after watching all of these I see why everyone is disappointed in ottoman. Everyone is better and has unique upgrades for what ottoman is supposed to be good at.
Besides DeMu, Beasty, Leenock, and Vortix. Are there any more former SC2 players who have transitioned to AOE4?
Thank You
Good stuff.
Does the Military Academy blacksmith upgrade work with the Astronomical Clocktower?
thank you
Any good build order for 3v3/4v4? Just go 3/4 TC?
Search for guide on his channel. He got guides for all civs.
@@victorhreisemnou Not for team games. I remember watching a single video with general tips for teamgames. Certainly no civ by civ videos.
Will stone towers (anathema in ranked play) also Heal walls with tech?
Not many people are using those kind of switches on their keyboards, given the amount of key presses you have to do per video and the loudness of your keyboard why wouldn't you spend a little more money to have a really nice silent keyboard?. i.e keychrone or modded stuff...The tech is leaps and bounds ahead of what it was 5 years ago.
Clicklity clack is cool lol
When I watch good aoe players they’re often spamming keys and clicks, whereas I’m a noob and just click on things and use A key to send units to attack. If there’s a guide for basically being faster with everything let me know!!
I am the same bro
its for a couple reasons one of which is the fact that at the highest level they need to perform lots of actions per minute so doing all the clicks and hotkey checks keeps them in the mindset of being fast and responsive not slow. Another is the prior statement regarding hotkeys they are just getting comfortable with pressing and their hotkeys
Good vid but man you need to find a way to tone down the keyboard clicking
how to get to Chinese civilization in first place?!
I played Chinese like a damn😂
They had the best siege until they got nerfed but now they lack of anti-siege units or unique tech in imperial age i think
No culverin
they went from best siege to ... literally not even good siege lol. especially since you can't IO-boost the clocktower like you used to be able to back in the day.
@@MVPhurricane yes that and food starved, if they can give Chinese some discount on farms would be really good.
They still have very good siege and with the upcoming update it will get even better. As trebs will become a more castle-oriented unit that will be killed more easily and deals less damage, in late game bombards will become a thing and in terms of bombards chinese are insane.
Nest of bees still remains a very effective unit.
Now you can make rams with extra health in clocktower, which is insane considering where the rams are in the current meta.
In terms of anti-siege, you basically have springalds with extra health, which is by itself better than most civs excluding the ones with culverin.
I mean guys I'm a China main but I try to be as objective as possible, in terms of siege China doesn't need buffs, it's very good. You are just complaining probably because you like the civ and you would like to see it buffed all the way around, but that's not how things work.
If there's anything I would change / buff it's Ming Dynasty, which is usually not that useful in most situations.
@@teomarik China's siege during age 3 is fully ok, but for age 4 the tech which extends range on ALL gunpowder units would be great to see back in the game
Time to terrorize the ladder with my new-found-China-knowledge (not really)
Situation be like "OMG China is so cool I have so many options" and then you realise you don't have enough APM and macro ability to manage all that crap and in imperial you realise you official is still supervising the very first gold mine you have finished at minute 10 😂😂😂
@@teomarik the part about supervising the first gold by the time youre imp is too real lmaoooo
Hey Beasty, you dont rlly play china right? Why so?😁
yo beasty, you know you can use a bug for have more imperial office in 1 building? can bee accumulated
China #1
A man of culture I see. The Doc would be proud
damn if they made a USA civ taxes gonna be high as f lol
irony?
Bro SC2 needs you and you know it... EDIT: Bro you looking good at least youre working on yourself lol... EDIT #2: Bro this game is *CLEARLY* too easy for you... EDIT #3: Yuh boi just beat Maru ffs... EDIT #4: Who is paying you to do this lol
Isn't It peculiar that anything Chinese in ANY game is absolutely busted?
They really aren't, you just have a skill issue
Thanks, very informative