Responding to Ben Shapiro's Rejection of Jesus
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- On this episode of Apologia Radio we continue our discussion of the conversation between Dr. John MacArthur and Ben Shapiro. Why is it important to get this right? How does MacArthur's eschatology impact his witness to an Orthodox Jew? Is it important?
We also respond to another Independent Fundamentalist Baptist who came out with an incoherent and absurd rant rooted in pure ignorance against Calvinism.
Get more at apologiastudios....
![MISSING: SLIM SHADY [Expanded Mourner’s Edition Trailer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xh8qgHrOO1g/mqdefault.jpg)
Macarthur did a fabulous job with shapiro. The gospel was clearly preached. Shapiro will not believe no matter what you tell him unless the Father draws him in.
Pretty sure Gods blinded the last day Jews until the appointed time (tribulation). I hope he does because Ben likes Christianity.. So does Mark Levin.
Even by reformed theology standards (which I don't totally believe in) the gospel still needs to be proclaimed
@@WhyPentecostal absolutely and the reformed camp would be the first to say that
@Phantom, definitely not “fabulous,” especially considering his position and intellect.
Romans 11
What you came here for starts at 20:00
You're the real hero
MVP
RUclips should reward people like you champ.
Thanks mate .
Thanks👍🕇
I know you guys know this: Shapiro doesn't need a reason to reject Jesus and no amount of REASON alone with bring him to Jesus. As you said, the Spirit can use less than perfect theology to bring you to Himself.
Jesus Himself preached the PERFECT truth to Jews in His time and they rejected Him...
Cheri Stokes amen
They're not his sheep. Sad isn't it
We don't know that he isn't one of his sheep, perhaps it's simply not his time yet, I certainly hope Ben Shapiro comes to Jesus
@@kjvacp , seriously? "those that are of faith are the children/offspring/[Israel] of Abraham.". . Did God reject His ppl who He foreknew? May it NEVER be. "For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin." And I too am a descendant of Abraham - in the truest sense of the word!! :D
Rom 11:26 is the KEY: "And IN THIS WAY all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; In what way is/has ANYONE [been] saved...?!?
It wouldn't matter what tactics you used on Ben, his rejection comes from the heart
Is his story over then?
@@smiller6925 not yet. However it is not dependent upon eschatology, if anything trying to use amillenialism as a means of reaching out to a Jew like Ben Shapiro is not only counter productive, it's going to guarantee that he will reject the gospel as one of the common Jewish objections against the gospel is 'if Jesus is the Messiah then why is there no peace?'
@@smiller6925 jews rarely convert to christianity so he will likely die and go to hell
@@Gabrielfromearth
Romans 11:26 says you are wrong. God himself blinded the Jews so the gospel would move outside Hebrew culture, but at the end, "...all Israel shall be saved."
U don’t know that tho. Not every1 that doesn’t believe us because they don’t want it to be true. There are some who genuinely don’t believe
Wow. Jeff really has some amazing insight about the Foreshowding of Jesus' sacrifice when he talks about Abraham and Isaac at 44:00. This really opened my eyes to how important the Old Testament is. Just talking about how the Old Testament's discussion of "The Angel of the Lord" not being some Heavenly creature, but God himself. WOW. Thank you Jeff for the work you do, not just ministering to Non-believers but to us Christians as well.
How is the angel of God - God ?
All excellent points, Jeff! Very good to see you back.
Yes, after I came to Christ from Mormonism, I saw how perfectly the OT speaks to us in prophecy and types, pointing perfectly to Jesus only, as our means of reconciliation with God. Both testaments together are complete, final, and all sufficient to bring us to salvation and peace with God.
Would you mind sharing your testimony? My neighbor is a Mormon and I've just been praying for her and for an opportunity to share The gospel with her!
Solange Renfroe praise the name of Jesus!
Jesus is Lord Hi there!
So sorry, I don’t know how buy I missed your comment! I don’t mind at all. I am in the process of making a video of my testimony, as I believe I am being called to reach out to Mormons. I am happy to answer any questions you have.
Starts @ 4:18
David Padilla I went to the comments to see if someone did this thank you so much.
You da MVP!
GOD BLESS YOU 😂
They didn't start talking about Shapiro's video until around 21:00
Mvp
The truth of God's word brings me to tears.
I’d love to see Jeff debate Sam Harris. Now that would be cool.
Human Being I think Jeff would give Sam a better go than Ben. That said, Sam seems closed to the idea of monotheism
I'm a Christian and I like Jeff, but he could not hang with Sam. Truth is truth regardless of a debate 'performance', however in terms of 'performance' Jeff would operate on, or throw out some presuppositions and argue from there, without actually finding any common ground based on reason and arguing from evidences either logical, scientific, or philosophical. It's like saying sye ten bruggencate would be a good person to debate sam harris. Sam is brilliant in the human sense, which means he has an incredible ability to misuse logic at such a HIGH level that arguing against him on those grounds takes not only an immense intelligence, but more importantly a deep wisdom, and the leading of the holy spirit, and behind it all - love.
in the context of a public debate, it's not merely about who is right. of course these men are generally right and sam is generally wrong, but such a debate would not be convincing or effective. i don't know who would be best to debate with harris, or speak with ben, but it would require a quality that is not Jeff's strong suit, and i mean zero offense by that. he's got his own strengths.
i'd rather see john lennox or william lane craig talk to harris. as for Ben, it needs to be an OT/Jewish EXPERT - but beyond, and more important than, the field of expertise (in either case) is the HEART of the man. if they're genuine, if their walk is solid, if they have LOVE and concern for the individual they're speaking with, and if they're truly actively being led by the spirit THAT is what makes a conversation fruitful.
@@Artcore103 Sam Harris is not a capable debater - see how in his debates he finds it difficult to follow the arguments of opposition
@@ChristianCommentonEverything i probably wasn't clear enough. To someone who knows the truth and thus who's reason and logic is working properly in subjection to that truth, obviously his debating is pathetic, as any argument for a blatant falsehood would be pathetic regardless of its presentation. Same could be said for dawkins or hitchins. I'm speaking from the average perspective of the average audience. They idolize him as a genius. You and i may see that as ridiculous, but we can still recognize the appearance of things and work out what type of argumentation and presentation might be most effective. You don't decide what a capable debater is, because what is meant by that in context is what does the average person think a capable debater is. In this sense he is exactly that.
Human Being My guess is God would agree with the one quoting his word-Jeff.
Get this man jeff durbin on Ben shapiros Sunday special asap!!!
I'm literally praying at night that you make it on his Sunday special Jeff. So if you read this, may our lord bless you and Ben Shapiro! 🐑🐑🐑
Yes, I hope Durbin will see how badly he misunderstands the Tanakh and will repent.
@@imagomonkei i think that's the beauty of Bens show that ideas get openly expressed. I would love to see these to go at theological boxing, plus seeing Ben get the gospel. Jeff is no backseat thinker tho and i think he would bring a great force with the holy spirit.
Please Explain...Peace & Blessings❤💪☝️
@@imagomonkeiHave you repented yet? Turn to Christ and live!
It is so important to not be so quick to criticize another brother. Dr. Macarthur is there without the luxury of time to over think and pick apart "what he should have said". He certainly gave a good and Biblical accurate description of what all of us believe. The Lord gives us the concept of Christian liberty, I believe, for just such a situation as this. I would rather you have this discussion with John Macarthur present or not at all. Please take this in brotherly love as that is how it was given
Have a one on one discussion with Ben Shapiro on Jesus being the Messiah...
4 MONTHS!! the movie UNPLANNED is coming out. Pro life 2019.
What is 1911 ACP
@@katlady298 it is.... beautiful. And necessary living outside the city in Alaska.
#allbabiesmatter
Loved the scripture rich message, encouraged me in my faith. Thanks for your boldness brothers.
Apologia is a blessing as a ministry to reaching the lost, edifying the Church but on this one, there is serious inconsistency. I find it incredibly disappointing that Apologia will criticize John Macarthur for presenting the Gospel to Shapiro when the exact same opportunity and practically the same context and environment was given to Jeff Durbin and he did nothing. Pastor Jeff sat there as Ben Shapiro stated why he doesn't use with the Bible when engaging the culture and as a presuppositionalist, this should have raised red flags. It's one thing to criticize Dr. Macarthur and what was said but it's another when you had the same opportunity and did not even attempt to present the Gospel.
Great show. Ben's problem is that he wants to remain King of his own life. May the Lord Jesus open his eyes.
It would be great if you guys had John MacArthur on to discuss your eschatological views. I tend to agree with him but would love to hear a discussion between the two of you because you raise some good points as well
Here is escatology. The rapture occurs at the 2nd coming. Thats it. The Bible plainly teaches that.
The rapture is not Christ’s second coming. He will never set foot on this earth then. After the rapture then the tribulation then Christ’s second coming on earth when he actually sets foot on earth and sets up his kingdom that is the second coming
@@Mega77Cutlass The so called rapture occurs at the second coming of Christ. Its very plainly taught in Matthew 24:30-31 and the parallel account in 2nd Thessalonians 4:15-18. Christ returns, and at His appearing, all those who are dead in Christ from Adam until that moment are raised to meet Christ in the air and then immediately after, all those living who are in Christ are raised to meet Him in the air...they all accompany Christ in His return to earth in In flaming fire with his holy angels, and he sets his foot on the Earth at that day. This is all plainly taught. also see 1. Cor 15:22-24.
R L so you do believe in a physical reign of Christ on earth following the rapture? You wouldn’t subscribe that the millennium is occurring now but it is a future event
@@Mega77Cutlass What happens after I meet Christ is in His hands and I will not worry or be concerned about what happens from that moment on will be wonderful and glorious. Do you dispute what I said in my previous message?
can you guys do a video going through your eschatological views within Scripture? i’ve watched your videos on eschatology and they really don’t explain the timelines within Daniel and Revelation. These apocalyptic texts, as far as i can see, don’t line up with the post-millennial view, so i would love to be corrected/enlightened/proven wrong. and i mean that sincerely!
Agreed. I don't understand how Revelation can be ignored here. I agree with Jeff that Jesus is in His throne, however, I disagree that throne is physically established on Earth, as is addressed in Revelation and in the glorious appearing of Jesus.
Jesus's kingdom is established in the hearts of His church right now. But, it is in no way His physical representation on the Earth, after Satan has been bound for 1000 years. We can't SEE Jesus right now, but, after the Great Tribulation is over, we will.
Derek Ball I decided to do some research of my own, on the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, on the book of Revelation... the timelines of the dynasty’s and Roman Emperors and so on.. To me it now makes much more sense and is very clear.
The book of Revelation is not about something in the future, it has already taken place.
I recommend listening to Dr Gary Demar, he has written loads of books on eschatology, he has spoken on the subject many times and really helps you understand. (I’ve got him on my playlist)
Also, Jeff Durbin has taught on Daniel chapter 9 and discussed the timeline of the Messiah and the destruction of the temple.. on his podcast, which was very interesting!
But I remember at first it was very confusing, because we constantly hear about this certain eschatological view, which everyone seems to agree with, but do not bother doing their own research and really paying attention to what scripture says and reading it in context.
@@specialk7715 respectfully, the destruction of Jerusalem happennd in AD 70. The book of Revelation specifically outlines things that have happened, and will happen. This is and has been always my argument in regards to revelation because Revelation outlines a singular world government as well as the reestablishment of several key things in Israel that have not come to fruition yet. The two witnesses for instance, have not taken their place in Jerusalem. These two witnesses are most likely Moses and Elijah or Elijah and Enoch. The two witnesses are to Bear witness against the Antichrist for three and a half years, will be killed, and then be resurrected. They are to do this publicly for the whole world to see.
my question on this, is how can the whole world see it if there is no method at the time for the whole world to actually see it? Were there televisions back then? I'm not asking that question to be a smart aleck, but I am trying to get my point across in that there are many things that are in the book of Revelation that simply haven't become a reality yet.
If Revelation is supposedly written about the future destruction of Jerusalem, it was done very poorly because it was written ten years after the destruction of Jerusalem. It was written after animal sacrifice had not only been stopped, but the Jews have been scattered out of Jerusalem and over the face of the Earth. And let's be real, there is no physical throne of Jesus where we can see him visually right now. There has not been a war of 200 million people gathered at the valley of megiddo. We have not seen Jesus in his second coming as Revelation also States. The Mount of Olives has not been cracked in two. There has been judgments. There is still sin and death and war and famine and disease all over the world, which is something is said to have ended in the book of Revelation.
So please hear me on this, if parts of the book of Revelation haven't come true, and major events in the book of Revelation foretold of things after the destruction of Jerusalem, then how can the book of Revelation be essentially null and void? I do not understand how it can be ignored.
@@specialk7715 I made a typo... The major judgements in the Trumpets and the Bowls have not come to fruition. However, I believe 6 of the seven seals in the Seal judgement have.
We are still living in an era of Grace because of Jesus. But the wrath of God is going to come upon mankind. And while there have been many incidents throughout the world since the destruction of Jerusalem, that mirror or mimic the end times of Revelation, those events did not affect the entire world. Those events only impacted the region in and around was Israel and the middle East.
Revelation + REALITY seem to be disregarded in the post-millennial view; Satan is not in prison, he is roaming about, devouring people, and it’s pretty obvious.
"Ben I love you man, but do you Bible?"
Lol love it brother!
Wow great show guys👌🏽. You brothers are so blessed, thank you for what you do threw Jesus our King and Lord. God bless!
Please get jeff on the ben shapiro sunday special! That would be worth watching!
John Macarthur is, in my opinion, one of the greatest preachers of our day. However, his dispensational eschatology blinds him in his view of Israel and the Jewish people. I will give him kudos for actually changing much of his view on Romans 13 over the past year though. God bless him for that. They really need to get someone like Chuck Baldwin on Shapiro's show. That I would love to see.
Awesome episode, I've learned a lot. I pray God continues to bless Apologia ministry,...... for Gods glory! :)
I was baptized at Grace Community and love Dr Mac, and I’m with you guys!
Now hang on. Are you guys catcalling Ben Shapiro?
Nate Amend best comment.
LOL!
Lol they really are though
@B R Are you sure you replied to the right comment? Because if so, you jumped to an awful lot of *very* wrong conclusions.
This comment was made in good fun. It was a reference to AOC's insinuation that, by inviting her to debate, Ben Shapiro was catcalling her. I was jokingly applying her (absurd) standards to Jeff's suggestion of a dialogue.
I'm not trolling Christians. I am one, bud.
And, forgive me if I'm misreading you, but it sounds like you're bringing a good bit of anti-Semitism into this discussion. You need to repent of that. I will pray that the love of Jesus (our Jewish savior) convicts you of the prejudice in your heart.
This is what I’ve been wanting since the day I heard you share all the scripture pointing to Jesus in the Old Testimony. I thought he HAS to have a sit down with Ben Shapiro!!! Can’t wait... God is after your soul and platform Ben because you a warrior for his kingdom laws and brining his justice to this world. Looking forward to seeing God move in this! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Ben is a great example of those who belong to the institutionalized rejection of Jesus.
You guys are Aces. I’m boutta binge hard on your content. Jesus wants to work through me. Thanks for helping me get up to speed. Let the God of our salvation be exalted. 👍🏼
Dear brothers, if you are referring to the interview Ben Shapiro did with John MacArthur I didn't see a rejection but a man of faith in the only God making questions. He didn't argue. He didn't accepted Christ nor he rejected Him. Give him time I'm sure that the Lord is going for him
Gabriel Garibay he outright said he doesn’t believe in the divinity of Christ - what part didn’t you hear ?
Boerboel 1652 don't remember that, I ll check the interview again. Thx for the note.
Somethin Aint Right Here I don't know your experience but not of us have such immediate conversion . You share the Word , you evangelize and pray pray and pray. Don't you trust the Holy Spirit? Not all of us , even brother MacArthur , are Peter or Paul . Have faith , pray.
Couldn’t find the source I mentioned in myasthenia comment, but here is a link to Ben denying Jesus and say I g he would have been a bad rabbi.
m.ruclips.net/video/nRL2OIkA9y4/видео.html
In the Daily Wire Backstage show a week or so ago, “Putting the X back in Christmas,” they touch upon this subject of Ben’s opinion of Christ, and he refers to the MacArthur interview and says he allowed MacArthur to speak his point and chose not to pick at the interpretation which he disagrees with, so he basically said that he still doesn’t accept that Jesus is the Messiah, even after the interview.
Easily the best episode yet guys. Such good teaching
Also God spoke to Abraham in man form about destroying Sodom!
Thank you for all you do. Learn tons from you. Will pray for your good work 🙏 Merry Christmas ❤
If there is a Love button, I would have love these men.
Luke, thanks for bringing up Elohim. I’ve asked Jews about that, and of course, invariably, the answer is “God’s using the plural because it’s a form of respect.”
No it is plural because g-d has multiple characteristics.
I love Ben and have been standing firm for his salvation.
Ben doesn’t need to be saved from God
Christmas wouldn't be the same without Chris Claus saying Hi. May God keep blessing Apologia and keep them defending His word and his children.
"Mustard seeds that become large trees" Great episode!
Great stuff at 38:42 - 39:23
1:05:43 - 1:06:17
Judges 13:18 "And the angel of the LORD said to him, “Why do you ask my name, seeing it is wonderful?”"
I would be careful about making too much of an emphasis on Tanakh-only Judaism versus Tanakh-plus-Talmud Judaism.
Historically, the former were Sadducees, and the latter were Pharisees.
Boerboel 1652 man is the creation of Pharisees. Nowhere in the Bible does it state to be a Pharisee. They have labeled themselves by extra biblical texts and beliefs.
How ironic that I pulled up this podcast. The past week, the Lord have given me 7 Jewish people to share the gospel with. One is even a biblical scholar, from Israel. I’m an uneducated person who loves theology and the Jewish people. God doesn’t call the equipped, he equips the called.
Bless you guys for going into the Old Testament and glorifying Jesus! Love hearing the gospel in the story of Abraham and Isaac. Bringing forth the truth in gracious love! Love you guys! Blessings to all you guys and your labors for Christ. Jeff, here's a great video of a Messianic Jew pointing Jesus out in the Old Testament. If you are led to, please forward this to Mr. Shapiro and the good people at the Daily Wire. ruclips.net/video/PVItBigi7xs/видео.html
So do you have church Institutions im Bavaria Germany as well?
Cause where I am from there are no real churches anymore and almost none of them ste even teaching the Bible.
Hope that Germany gets a big revival for Christ Jesus.
Amen!
Been waiting on someone to do this talk with Ben for awhile now
John MacArthur did it perfectly.
I first heard the Daniel chapter 9 from Seventh Day Adventists, and people who speak against them say that Daniel was talking about the Antichrist. Now I've heard multiple reformed Christians pointing out that yes, Daniel was talking about Jesus, therefore, many theories about the end times are waiting for an erroneous factor. The temple doesn't need to be rebuilt, and the sacrificial system restarted, just so that the Antichrist can put an end to the sacrifices again.
I was in attendance when Piper delivered the sermon from which that clip is taken. It was awesome.
As a confession: from 84-87 I was in a Navigator group ( while in the Army ), they were all PM-PT-Dispen (We were heavy into GTY, J Vernon McGee, I even had a Scofield Bible). Then Several key verses leaped out at me. I was in a crisis mode. What was blazing out in front of me conflicted with their charts, theology, & primarily their Soteriology. After I had collected a notebook of notes, forming what I was seeing in scripture, I called my Dad (a Ref Preacher). After 15 minutes of explaining, I shut up & waited for him to say “you’re wrong because...”. Silence. He simply said: “You have just described the process of God saving man as upheld by the Reformed view. A wall has fallen down, & you’ll never be able to fit in fully with your friends.” He then sent me Berkhof’s Systematic Theology. He said, “This is what my Professor made us use”. I still have it. From that point until 10 years ago, the Lord had me moving all around the globe (literally).
Please forgive, I felt the need to share. My Dad passed away in June, I was by his side, but it’s been tough. He would have hated to see all this division, these snipe attacks, these machinations by satan’s minions & imps. Sometimes I feel I only got a shread of his mantle fall on me. In my woundedness, it has enabled me to minister to others. “The most precious thing we have to offer to the Lord, is that thing which wounds us the most.” -M. Card
Your table is to big.
🔨
Trib Ulation ?? Shame on you man.
Mark Van Laren, “too”**
I love JMac, I love Ben, and now Iove you guys!!! Thank you for sharing this! I pray Ben can have a chat with you guys soon!
I can't believe a conservative doesn't believe Jesus as messiah
Jews........
Conflating Christianity & conservatism is a big problem that leads people into blindly following a one half of a very evil and corrupt political system. That, I believe, is the biggest thing that has fed the madness of the left giving them ammo to keep good, freedom loving people divided.
rozz2656 maybe classical liberal but definitely not leftist liberals of today. But he wasn’t a neocon either. He was about freedom of choice & let people be responsible for their actions. He wasn’t about force. Both liberals and conservatives of today are about force and that poisons their best intentions.
Open your mind, Carlos C.
Carlos C Conservatism is a political ideology, not a religion. You could be am atheist and be conservative so long as you support judeo-christian values in society
Judge not that we be not judged ❤ thank you Heavenly Father Lord Jesus. Kathleen
You truly need to sit down with Tovia Singer. I would truly love to see that. I think he would give you more of a biblical debate. He has passionately spoken against Jews for Jesus and Jesus in general backing everything he says with scripture.
Tovia commits logical fallacies plus flat out lies.
If I could give you guys two thumbs up for this one I would. Awesome stuff!
I absolutely love Ben Shapiro and you guys.
As a Christian brother I've noticed Jeff Durbin seems to have no issue using foul language? I love what he does and appreciate him as a brother in Christ, I would just encourage him to watch his witness, and use words like bast@&), pu&&%, F&$# just because people use them at him doesn't mean he should repeat them back to them. God bless you my brother and I pray the Lord helps you in this area and continues to use you in your current ministries. 🙏❤✝️
Superado2006
I don’t mind the language so much, but when he denies evolution, and says the earth is only 6000 years old, that’s what’s really dangerous for children to hear.
Superado2006
Fair enough. Nothing is 100% certain, and rational probability is key to logical thought. That said, we know, and I mean we really know, that the ancestors of every animal and human on the planet today did not disburse from a mountaintop in the Middle East 4500 years ago.
@@sirajaxl Thats inaccurate and not what the bible says. Have you read it, or are you just mocking what it says?
Superado2006
I’m not mocking, and that is more or less what the Bible says. At least the KJV. Man and animal disbursed from the Middle East about 4500 years ago According to this Jeff guy and just about every creationist I’ve ever heard.
@@sirajaxl More or less, isn't what it says...
KJV Genesis 1:20-27 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
The Sixth Day: Creatures on Land
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Nowhere does it mention a mountain top (garden of eden), going by most creationist and the biblical timeline it was more like 6000-8000 years ago, it also says that god commanded the sky, oceans and earth to bring forth every kind of creature, the only ones that dispersed from there were the man and woman... I understand you have an opposing view but if your going to argue against it, at least get it right so you don't come off as condescending. As a Christian I understand both arguments and the secular arguments for the origin of life.
Dr Michael Brown should have a conversation with Ben Shapiro
Nah he's a NAR Adjacentish heretic so many apostateesque people sounding great but when you get down to who they support you gotta just say no to them.
I WOULD love to have a full transcription of the conversation
Bring tovia singer to your show jeff.
Mr Sleekwave I'd pay to see that.
Or Michael Skobac
Yesss!
Jeff:
Love the show you're blessing us, my son & I.
Re Ben Shapiro insistence that Messiah wasn't coming as a man or child, he's drawing his Theology not from the Torah or Prophets but from Talmudic rabbi teachers who lie & distort the historical record.
We, in the New Covenant church, in Christ, are the actual Israelites by faith. Quote "If you be in Christ then you are Abraham's seed and heirs to what was promised"
Look up the helpful video documentary 'Marching to Zion" where a Pastor interviewed various Rabbis from different branches of Judiasim it explains a lot on why Ben gets the nature of Jesus = Messiah wrong.
Praying for His Kingdom to come - bless your efforts Brothers & Sisters !
18:45 Oh golly gee, what a surprise, Christians disagreeing with each other on who's got the "right" interpretation of the bible.
are you an atheist?
Brand new viewer, I haven’t even made it through the intro and I’ve already subscribed
Since I know from inside out how Roman catholic church does it... they push people to do, read, learn and belive everything else but Scriptures; and they believe their teachers' /preast's interpretations before God. The same is with modern Israelites. Only they don't have idols any more.
Addressing the ridiculous commenters (taking some crazy rabbit trails) made this show way more fun to listen to! Keep doing that :D
I'm curious, how can Jmac look Ben Shapiro straight in the eye and tell him that Christ died for his sins? Jmac has no clue if he is one of the "elect." Remember, Christ didn't die for the sins of the non-elect.
If the Calvinist were honest, they truly can't tell any unbeliever that Christ died for their sins.
I think Jmac should re-name his ministry from Grace To You, to Grace Maybe To You!
The Calvinist can look ANYONE in the eyes and proclaim the exact same message the Apostles did. That “Jesus died for sinners and anyone who turns to Him in faith and repentance will find Him to be a perfect Savior”.
Where do you ever see the Apostles in the new testament telling individuals “Jesus died for you”? They proclaimed that Jesus died for sinners and the Holy Spirit used them as a means to regenerate.
@@middleclass3224 This is a meaningless distinction you're trying to make. You are trying to divorce Calvinism from its own assumption that Christ only died for some/elect. Your example fails, watch:
P1: All men are sinners,
P2: Christ died for sinners,
C: Therefore, Christ died for all men.
OhdeeKoenig that doesn’t logically (or scripturally) follow. Just because Jesus died for sinners doesn’t logically follow that, because everyone is a sinner, Jesus then died for them all. Jesus did in fact die for his bride. Every member of His bride is a wretched sinner saved by grace. Therefore, Jesus did die for sinners... cuz his bride is composed of sinners. It’s fallacious to say “because Jesus died for sinner, and everyone is a sinner, that means he died for everyone”.
You failed to address my point, regardless. Nowhere did the apostles preach to someone and say “Jesus died for you”. That was the OP’s point.
Kevin Johnson typing something in all caps doesn’t make your point true.
“God isn’t willing that any perish”
Why do you assume the word “any” has to always mean everyone? The chapter and verse divisions are great, but this is an example of where they become a hindrance. If you start at verse 1, you’ll see the “any” is given. And it isn’t “every single human that’s ever lived”.
“I just don’t get the predestination thing”
Well, it’s all throughout the Bible. It’s pretty clear.
“I am genuinely concerned that your faith in Christ is falling short?”
Kevin, do you understand reformed theology? I don’t mean that in a condescending way. I ask because if you did, you wouldn’t say that Calvinists think they earn their salvation. That’s one of the fundamental reasons the reformers pulled away from Rome. It’s one of the fundamental reformed doctrines. Faith alone, in Christ alone. Calvinists believe the only reason a person is saved to begin with is because God was merciful in granting them faith and repentance.
@Kevin Johnson Pls! That is a bad rendering of the greek. Litterally it is " the one believing". In english ( not my native tounge) the emphasis should be "whosoever BELIEVES". God bless.
The reasoning and facts can be there, but the revelation will come from God who is in heaven.
A tool for tools?? For the sake of all the good you do, stop being as prideful and mean spirited as those oppose your biblical truths.
I suggest these guys, and all Christian's, learn Hebrew. These 3 guys are taking the Torah out of context. As it says in Numbers 23:19 "God is not a man that he may deceive.". Elohim is NOT plural. I know Hebrew.
If Jews accept Yeshua as Yahweh (IAM) that means acknowledging they are responsible for killing God in the flesh. So of course he can’t be God to them. I think it’s more they’d rather not acknowledge that particular horror of their past. So they deny it all together and make up rationals why Yeshua can’t be the messiah. Despite what the Old Testament says very clearly.
I semi-agree, with the exception that no one alive today was responsible for Jesus’ death. It’s like saying whites in America still hold responsibility for slavery.
We should all humble ourselves with the responsibility Jesus put on us. He did it because He loves us, so instead of blaming our sins or ourselves, we should be grateful and carry our own crosses and live like He did to thank Him.
Quasinconsistent
Your correct they aren’t totally responsible as it was something that had to happen regardless. However would you not feel responsible if your ancestors did such a thing? Not only that but saying to God you cast out devils by the power of devils. Deeply blasphemous and rejecting he is actually God. Can’t get much worse than that, but hey if he’s not God then it’s okay what they said and did. Ben Shapiro is smart enough to know exactly what the Old Testament says.
Carmen Siekierke
Gods Sovereign, mans responsible. Even it being Gods plan man is still responsible for it. I guarantee God will hold them responsible for what they said and did. And lacking the faith to accept God came down to earth in the flesh. Their only salvation is through Yeshua Christ and repentance. Personally I’d love to see Johnathan Chan and Jeff discussion with Ben Shapiro about Christ. To see how Ben would try to argue his way to deny Christ.
Carmen Siekierke
Yes that’s true Mormons are viciously deceived and exploited for profit and power. However an Orthodox Jew should know the Torrah cover to cover. In Ben case he’s likely deferring to Rabbi opinions and discussion of the Old Testament and not what Gods Word actually says. Exaltation of mans opinion on scripture not the actual scripture. Same thing Mormons do, disregarding the Bible for what their current prophet says. Even when they are huge contradictions with previous ones. The same can be said of Orthodox Jews focusing on what they expect of God and what the messiah should be like in their eyes. Like how Ben expects the messiah to come and be a military power for the Jews. Completely overlooks what scripture actually says. Or how Abraham talked to God in person on the earth. That alone contradicts their impression that God can only be spirit. In fact man can not stay alive in Gods spiritual presence because of sin. I mean people would die just being in the presence of the Ark of the covenant. So God comes down as a man as a physical being sealing off a great deal of his power so he can talk to humans face to face without killing them. So it’s actually Yeshua talking to Abraham about Sodom and Gomorrah. A lot of humans mix that up because they assume God is bound by linear time like we are. That’s our folly we assume God is as limited as we are. When that’s never been the case. This is where Ben gets stuck I imagine. He’s assuming things about God that just aren’t true and upheld by scripture.
Carmen Siekierke
Honestly I don’t ever see Ben acceptance of Christ he’s far too proud and arrogant in his own views about scripture. He like other Orthodox Jews don’t consider the New Testament as scripture and I doubt they ever will. After all they are still waiting for the messiah to come and despite the 2nd temples destruction they still believe he’s yet to come. They are stuck in the old law and commandments of the Torrah. So atonement is completely foreign concept to them. Ben should talk to a messianic Jew one who accepted Christ and the New Testament. I can think of no one better than Johnathan Chan really. He changed and obtained salvation, course it wasn’t till he was hit by a train. Sometimes it takes massive intervention to change a Jew mind about Christianity. Until something like that happens to Ben I don’t think he’d ever change his mind and admit he was wrong. He never does it all the debates and talks he’s given over the many years. He almost always goes out of his way to prove the other side is wrong.
God bless this ministry
14:40 Get Woke. Go Broke is a slightly better phrase in my opinion.
Guys,
I just watched the show for the first time, and happened upon your response to MacArthur chatting with Shapiro. First of all, I just wanted to say how much I appreciated your deep biblical knowledge and your command of the scriptures. You guys are obviously highly intelligent and well taught scholars. However, I had 2 issues with the show that I just saw:
1) You never actually addressed Shapiro’s objections. You can say, (like MacArthur actually did in his interview with Ben) that the scripture should be our ultimate authority. Obviously this is 100% true, without question. However, Shapiro and most other Orthodox Jews (like Catholics and Progressive “christians” and Eastern Orthodox) reject the tenant of Sola Scriptura and focus on tradition and other sources. Obviously this is problematic at the least and arguably blasphemous, but it is where their conversation starts. If you are dealing with an ignorant Orthodox Jew that has never read a lot of the TaNak for themselves, the verses you guys were so admirably belting out is enough to shake them into studying for themselves and possibly making that turn into becoming completed in Christ.
Unfortunately Satan isn’t an idiot. (wait, is the literal existence of Satan still cool with you reformed guys?) Just checking ;) hehe
Unbelievers have been building up arguments against trusting of the scriptures alone for thousands of years. Half the time when Jesus is confronting the Jews in the New Testament he is taking on their rabbinical traditions and destroying their arguments. Obviously I don’t expect anyone to have the insight that God has in debating scholars, but I think that, in attempting to add the MacArthur’s answers to Shapiro, you simply repeated a lot of the points that he made. Now I think that MacArthur is simply using the platform to preach Christ and Him crucified as he does, and even says to Shapiro that his answers would always be the same no matter what so I doubt his intention was a “one and done” conversion conversation.
I guess what I was looking for here, if you are going to not just answer questions about Christianity as MacArthur was doing, but going about on a full on conversion mission to Orthodox Jews, is that I wanted the baseline of the argument to be WHY Sola Scriptura isn’t just a tenant of dusty reformers, but a vital precept that all other precepts must follow from. You alluded to some of this when you talked about how logic and reason are the result of God’s intentional creation, but then you skipped over just WHY listening to Maimonides instead of trusting our own faculties in understanding scripture is a flawed idea. Shapiro offers, if “people smarter than himself are experts in the scripture", why would he substitute his own reading for theirs? MacArthur challenges that idea in the video, but also realizes that the format to get out the Gospel was more important than the specific point of why Rabbinical Tradition should be questioned.
I guess what I want from a deeply intelligent show like you guys have, is 2 hours on why focusing on the scripture as opposed to other sources for the ability to interpret what scripture says would be in order. This can apply to Catholics as well. The silly idea that God wrote something that all of us are too dim to understand ourselves without an outside authority is the root of the issue. I want to see arguments for Sola Scriptura as well as arguments that specifically get into why Jewish scholarship is so off base.
OK. Phew. So my second objection is this:
2) Please have a few profs from DTS come on the show and educate you guys on Dispensationalism before declaring that our tradition is damaging. These are debates that are “in house” or within orthodoxy. I know these were just some offhanded comments, but please have Dr. Baylis and Dr. Hannah on and have a discussion,
Charles P. Baylis Professor of Bible Exposition - Dallas Theological ... www.dts.edu/people/cbaylis/
and
John D. Hannah - Dallas Theological Seminary... www.dts.edu/people/jhannah/
These guys are great, and can without a doubt dispel some of the incorrect notions you seem to have about Dispensational Theology.
Now you guys have done hundreds of shows and interviews, and maybe you have had these guys on, but if you are going to be harsh with us, maybe you should debate DTS guys rather than straw men.
Awesome show guys, and I love what you are doing for ending abortion now. Thanks Brothers!
Christopher Rank
@Deals Durban So what are the top three arguments that you get bored refuting?
@Deals DurbanIf you will not believe the law and the prophets, even if someone came back from the grave, you would not believe.
Stick to the person of Jesus of Nazareth and leave eschatology out of it.
That assumes that the two aren't connected. Our presentations of Christ are all informed by our eschatology.
@Loonytoones85 it's precisely because I listen that I said what I said. Amillennialism is very similar to hyper-preterism, it violates the literal meaning of prophecy in favour of an antichrist tradition of interpretation just like the Messiah accused the Pharisees of, they do the very same thing, nullifying the word of God to keep their tradition which they have handed down.
The pre-tribulation rapture doctrine comes from the pit of hell, but so does amillennialism! The Messiah will touch his feet on the mount of olives (Zechariah 14), he will judge the nation while physically present in the valley of Jehosaphat (Joel), he will rule from Jerusalem and rule the nations (Isaiah, Daniel, Revelation) and after He returns the nations will go up year after year to keep the feast of tabernacles (Zechariah 14) at the Holy Temple the prophet Ezekiel saw (chapters 40-48).
All of this Scripture is made of no effect by the erroneous tradition amillennialists have handed down.
David Roberts you do realize that amillennialist has been the most popular view by saints and church fathers in the history of Christianity, right?
I think it would be really good for your to read C.S. Lewis’ article on the importance of eschatology and its implications on HOW we live life. It’s all very interconnected my friend.
@@Parks179-h all the first century Christians believed in what those Scriptures above clearly teach. And your appeal to authority is what precisely what Jews did which the Lord said made void the Scriptures. The Apostle John, his disciples, the bishops Papias & Polycarp believed the Lord would rule this earth for a thousand years from the throne of David in Jerusalem. It was the orthodox doctrine of the Church till helenism and gnosticism lead many astray, rotting their minds with pagan ideas. They teach the material earth was a mistake. The Bible says it was "very good". They say we become disembodied spirits forever, the Bible teaches the bodily resurrection of the righteous at the return of the Lord. They say fruit is sinful and canal, the Bible says it was all good and a gift from the Lord, only one tree was forbidden. I could go on and on, but the facts are clear to see. In the end, the only reasons to resist the truth is 1) pride (not to admit you were previously in error, which wounds the pride) or even worse 2) a spirit of falsehood is making the person blind to the things of God.
David Roberts well, I don’t disagree with anything you so here, for the most part I guess. What concerns me is the axe you seem to be trying to grind. Many of the doctrines you just mentioned have totally different grounds and footing. The eschatological beliefs of the earlier church were not shared across the board. The one you mentioned is post-millennialism, but actually, amillennialism has history been most popular historical. Those come down to how one persons interprets Scripture.
Now, for those who wanted to say that fruit, sex, and marriage were of themselves evil or wrong, we’re obviously influenced by the Gnostics. Nevertheless, I’m interested to know where you’re going with all this.
I'm a latecomer but I love the discussion. Just to add this: around timeline 37 and again at 38 the reference to the "anointing" speaks not about a holy "one" (Jesus) being anointed, but properly translated, "the anointing of the most holy". Read this in context of Psalm 85:10-11. So here's the truth- When Jesus died on the cross, His blood and water had a mission to accomplish physically. This was done when God opened up an earthquake crack at the foot of the cross, and the diluted blood poured down into it, traveling 20 feet deep until it dripped onto the mercy seat of God (the golden cover over the arc of the covenant, holding the 10 commandments, also referred to as the "most holy"). It had to do this in order to fulfill what Jesus said He would do (fulfill every jot and tittle)...explained in Leviticus 16. The ark was hidden there by Jeremiah (read 2nd Macc 2) some 500 years earlier. God had this divine plan. We now have the archeological evidence (although the Jews are keeping it quiet), but after the temple is built, perhaps 3.5 years into the final week on Daniel, it will be unearthed from underneath the Golgotha escarpment and placed there (perhaps the Muslims will "graciously" allow the removal of the lesser al Aqsa mosque to make room for it, as a goodwill gesture to the world). It will be then that all hell breaks loose. If you want to be there for that, remain a non-believer in Jesus the Messiah (as a Jew) or don't be a true born-again Christian..either way, you will be unlikely to get to paradise if you're a witness to that terrible time (unless you are willing to lose your life (and head) for Christ). However, the bible tells us that you will pretty much accept the mark of the beast at that point. Better to commit to Jesus Christ now.
Hey fellas, I just have to say this. I would most definitely not classify flat earth belief as idolatry. Especially if you have not truly taken time to look into the endless amounts of crazy flat earth Christian claims. True born again believers in Christ have come to the truth by way of coming to the realization that almost everything they have been taught to believe while growing up can not be trusted. All throughout our young lives we are taught what to think and not how...that we are all here on this earth by means of evolution...Nothing matters and we are just a spec of dust and accidentally got here. Well if they lie and force us what to think about the origins of all humanity, why wouldn’t they lie to us about what humanity lives on? Because satan is the prince of this world and will do whatever it takes to hide the truth from us all. Satan doesn’t want you to believe in a flat earth because you have absolutely no choice but to accept that we are uniquely created by God and are center attention. Jesus is the only way and Gods word is truth. We are Gods footstool. Upon the four corners of the earth. Much love.
But how does believing that the earth is round keep us from knowing Jesus?
RICKtoSICK10 I don’t have the perfect answer but I think “they” try to deceive us to believe that we live in an infinite universe that may have intelligent life outside planet Earth, e.g., aliens or other life forms, dispelling the truth that God created human beings. That itself can lead us away from Jesus Christ.
Man isnt the center of attention
Stop being fool
Flat earth still doesn't have 4 corners bro.
RICKtoSICK10 because science so called tells us we were formed from a big bing that came from nothing. Nothing matters and we just happened to evolve from muck over billions of years. A round earth flying at 500,000mph in outer space is merely the end result. Science “Satan” wants to deceive people to believe the earth formed over this long period of time,. This is why so many people have an atheistic world view, because they have always been taught there is no creator and we just happened to evolve into humanity. But the truth is this was all created in 6 literally days, just as Gods word says. he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in
Ben doesn’t debate anyone he thinks will win. He’ll probably talk to Pierce Morgan again.
When we dwell In GOD'S Word's The Holy Spirit teaches our spirit the truths of Our Heavenly Father's Word'. Some things remain unrevealed to us for GOD'S Glory 💕 Praise His Holy Name Christ Jesus ❤️ Trust And Obey 🙏 Kathleen
I like Ben as well and would like to see him on your show!
Please !! Pastor Jeff , i'm new to you but old in the Lord! Praise God for the way you're able to reach the young and those who are about to kill their young! I pray that the Lord will keep you humble young man for it is a wicked world we live in and power and recognition has a subtle way of producing tyrants ! One thing I love about you is your able to reach my young son of 39 who listens to you every day he's a Christian loves the Lord has a beautiful young family and one on the way ! But needs encouragement every day ! If you turn out to be one of those who just seeks notoriety big houses big cars and beautiful women I Dam you to Hell ! I'm watching you!!!!
I love your comment put a big smile on my face. God bless you
Keep it up! 💯 love hearing you all..
Galatians 4 : 26 " But the Jerusalem that is above is free and she she is our mother."
Love your inspirational teachings.
Thank guys. God bless. Be safe
Sometime i think ben shapiro don't want to accept the fact that Jesus is the Messiah is because he doesn't want to be proven wrong for the first time. That's where his pride steps in...
Or for a lack of knowledge
I had the same thought
All respect to you Jeff, but please stop your critic of MacAuthur. After all, you did have an interview earlier this year with Ben, and I don’t recall you doing as much as MacArthur did. I also understand that you disagree with MacArthurs eschatology, and you do consider him a true brother.
Wow, I can't believe Jeff Durbin said Pastor MacArthur's eschatology helped feed Shapiro's rejection of Christ. Dr. MacArthur was crystal clear that personal salvation is only through faith in Jesus Christ. I think Jeff's partial preterist view is becoming somewhat of an idol and he lacks humility on the subject.
"Ben . . . do you Bible?" I love it.
Don't get me wrong, I love Ben and think he is brilliant and have Faith He will open his eyes.
If you truly believe in God's election/Determination then why don't you just chalk Ben up to the "Going to Hell" team? Or do you really believe Ben can choose Jesus and be saved by his own freewill choice?
"Sees His offspring and prolongs his days." What verse is this in Isaiah 53?
Isaiah 53:10
Loved the video Apologia Studios! Have you guys looked into progressive dispensationalism? Very recent view and very distinct from traditional dispensationalism such as McCarthurs View.
Loved the commentary @23:00 minutes.
I want to see Jeff and John M discuss your criticism, Jeff. Would be really great to see.
love you guys. Jeff, you are a man of God that I really look up to.
Come on Ben let's do it this would be an awesome conversation
Anyone know and have an opinion on the fact that the Torah refers to us as Idol Worshipers, we'll need to be converted to Noahides, subservient to the Chosen s or be destroyed?
What is the best way to learn and study about the Messiah bringing forth His justice on a theological level besides the Scriptures obviously. Is this Covenant Theology?
What’s up with the six minutes of ...intro?
Ben is not rejecting Jesus he is not accepting Jesus for who he wasn’t . Jesus was not the messiah . Jesus was a rabbi , was pro Torah and probably died for his loyalty of Torah and israel by the hands of ROME .
1 John 2:1-10 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Zechariah prophesied in 4:6 Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, says the Lord of host.
The more I hear this view of eschatology the more it’s lining up with the whole of scripture.
I’d love to see you guys have a discussion with Rabbi Tovia singer.
Jeff, please consider debating Rabbi Tovia Singer. He's one of the smartest people I've ever seen. I think you two would have a very interesting debate.