The best use of Inexperienced I have seen was squads of 6 or 7, bum rush objectives near their start line, then put them on ambush ready for when enemy units have to advance to get that objective. The -1 to hit is then passed on to the attacking/moving unit, equalising the 'to hit' between the units, but the inexperienced get to choose when to fire and so impose pins on the attacking units. They can hold their own if used that way. Unless in a big unit then yeah, inexperienced units aren't so great. Good vid 👍🏻👍🏻
I want to assume that you’ve played a lot of bolt action, but apparently you’ve never dealt with an inexperienced horde on the table. One to one, yeah, inexperienced suck. But when you have 2x the amount of order dice in the bag (or even more) you will activate your units far more often than your opponent and big units of cheap inexperienced infantry are going to throw out more pins on the enemy than you think. And because you’ve likely activated several units before your opponent, you’re going to have them taking order tests more Often than your inexperienced troops do.
inexperienced units can be extremely usefull. If you play Germans you can get 10 inexperienced Strafbattalion Soldiers for 55 points. I always take one, sometimes two of those squads with me, they get a lot of bodies on the board (which for Germans is especially hard) and they are an amazing meat shield. I always play them very agressively, usually letting them yeet towards an objective or just place them in a way that makes them easier targets than the units I want to protect, and most enemies go for the bait, which si fine. They arent really supposed to win a firefight or an assault, but just by being there and being a potential threat and/or a juicy target, people will attack them taking away heat from more precious units, and with the amount of shots they churn out (10 shots for 55 points isnt too bad), they will ocassionally hit stuff. Hell sometimes I even yeet them into assault against smaller experienced units, 3-4 of those guys will potentially kill a veteran. Im sure they arent the most meta unit point for point (unless you play Japanese or Russians), but they can be a very effective tool and in my experience the 55 points spent always worked out, more often than not theyd kill stuff worth 50+ points or soaked up fire worth twice or three times their value if it would have hit my veteran grenadiers for example.
They do get extra order dice for cheap though, which can gain you a lot of flexibility and momentum with units you actually care abut. Also, once they're actually on the table, they should probably be used as second line troops anyway, to sit on objectives or in buildings. Actually expecting them to do anything is probably doing it wrong. Saying that I kind of have to use them since I play a lot of Fall of Singapore British, and couldn't care less about tourney play, so I probably see more value in them than most, simply due to having to!
having a full inexperience infantry list with green might work. You can just spam and possibly get 12+ order dice to really move these inexperience troops around and getting your opponent busy. Also inexperience infantry shooting from buildings become a regular in terms of saves but of course until it get rekt by flame throwers or HE. I wont really field inexperienced troops but it might be useful on some scenario or objectives. Throwing cheap inexperience troops to the frontline and let the regular or vets to deal with the objectives might work too. and erm.. hitlerjungen green + indoctrination sounds like a fun list to field.. (inb4 being called out for playing with child soldiers)
Oh absolutely. Some units make great use of green and would be super fun in thematic/scenario matches. But in anything competitive they’d probably get squashed.
Playing as the Americans, I usually like to take 3 MMG teams as inex to hold a single area under fire. Generally in good cover and under 18" to deal only with hc and -1. because they can't move and shoot unless changing arc of fire I'm hitting on single 6. But this is more of playing prevent defense rather than being offensive. Having said that it has helped me Free up the other infantry units to have upgrades and press the attack elsewhere.
105 points for 12 shots and 6 bodies isnt really that good by itself, but the 3 order dice make them amazing. I like the Strafbattalion with 10 bodies, 10 shots for 55 points
I used to have the same opinion, that the multiple penalties in taking inexperienced troops weren't worth the saving in points. But in the hands of a highly skilled player I think they can be somewhat competitive. The trick is to mob and pin isolated enemy forces and use the points saved to bring overwhelming support. The massive dice advantage and threat saturation count for something. The Soviets are especially good at this as they can take a commissar who gives a +1 to hit aura for inexperienced troops (he's in the Stalingrad book) and the free squad doesn't hurt.
@@HollywoodWargaming The new commissar certainly helps but he's not essential especially as depending on terrain he'll inevitably get sniped out. Honestly he's not the most important part of this sort of build. I think it's the support elements. Because on top of 66 rifleman, you can take a Katyusha, medium artillery piece, medium mortar, and three ampulomet teams to saturate the board in HE. On top of that I generally have four medium machine guns mounted in transports and jeeps and even a cheap MMG team to lay down supporting fire and then there's still points left over for a flamethrower team or sniper. This build has 19 order dice and doesn't care if you knock out say the mortar, it's only 35 points. There's still a hell of a lot of HE left in the list. I don't think it's only the Soviets that can do this well, the French can pull the same trick although admittedly not at as effectively. But I haven't lost every match with my inexperienced French. You take five inexperienced squads with VB launchers, plus the free squad. The VB launchers can do work despite the terrible range, if supported by two Medium regular artillery pieces, three motorcycle and sidecar with LMGs, a Renault FT, a medium mortar and everything else. Again it's 19 order dice, a hell of a lot of LG and MMG shots at 36 range, and points for cheap transports to help overwhelm one side of the board with cheap firepower. You do have to use little tricks to avoid hitting on sevens, like putting your units on ambush to catch them dashing across the open. But generally I think you're right, there are massive drawbacks to inexperienced troops. I'm not disagreeing with you there. For one thing my French army cost an absolute fortune! But I think Inexperienced forces can work in certain configurations with certain tactics and are extremely anti-meta for most people.
I used a few inexperienced squads, mostly the British Home Guard; saves points and yes a gamble, but I get another squad in or two, depending on size, so I still got alot of board control and units to fire about, plus green can charge the game a bit; and this goes both ways, a 1 is but a roll away.
This is true but a lot of Bolt Action objectives do promote aggression. On top of that a zeroed in mortar can ruin that party. Obviously easier said than done but I don’t usually believe the backfield objective jumper investment. I think the flexibility you get from the extra points is worth it. Hope that makes sense
I agree with everything you said. With my Italian army I would never use inexperienced units, its just to risky with the Avanti Savio rule. Also any inexperienced infantry unit within 6 inchs of the Soviet commissar ignores the -1 to hit for being inexperienced. The soviets can also take a 20 man inexperienced green squad. I think if you take two 20 man squads and place the commissar next to them they can be pretty potent.
I actually did not know that about Soviet’s. That’s a huge buff. As for the giant inexp squads, I forgot to mention units like that and bamboo spearmen.
@@econeffects9808 its the jewish partisan squad (based of the defiance movie). They are in the osftront book. It's actually a really good squad. They can take a panzerfust, as well as they get upgraded to fanatic and tough fighters if your opponent as any SS squads.
Rewatching this and listening to you talk about Green, I’m wondering on your thoughts on Volksgrenadiers. Mordian Glory did a really good video on them and I was wondering your thoughts
i do take transport as inexperienced to save points. But if i plan on using them to outflank/reserves or have a MMG then i take them as regular. If i plan to put a small team in them and rush to take an objective on turn one then i use inexperience.
Imho, inexperience are good only if they have green (which is free) or some other good extra rules (native irregular pre points change, or 1 point cheaper, are a nice example).
Really interesting video. Appreciate the detail and even more so, the reasons why. Not sure what I can do playing soviets with the Stalingrad builder. Haven’t played with them yet, for obvious reasons
This explains why my friend wanted help with his writing his replacement for Bolt Action. Why have units that are only 30% cheaper, but almost never can activate?
How do EW forces get on then ? not all of them can use regular and vets. Soviets seems to be almost all inexperienced in EW, I'm sure other forces have similar.
Yeah between Luftwaffe Ground units or Volk Grenadiers I went with the Volks as they have a few benefits over most other inexperience German infantry units. First you can pretty much arm them to the teeth with MP-40/Stg-44/MG-42, and Panzerfaust. But the main advantage is that on the first casualty you roll a morale test and if you get a 5 or 6 they go to a regular unit then roll again and if you get a 5 or 6 they go to veteran. Sure it's a risk but it also is cheaper doing it this way and possibly getting a regular or veteran unit at a discount during the game without putting the points into said unit. But all my vehicles minus transports are veterans as that is where most of my points are put into as a way to back them up. Nothing more scary than a Brummbar, Puma, or a Panther out there showing up while you think you have a low morale infantry unit pinned and so about to be wiped out. Then the tables can be turned.
I get a lot of requests for Poland so I’ll probably have to do it. But unfortunately it would only be covering their armies of lists and units, not the special units or lists from the campaign books like Market Garden
@@HollywoodWargaming I literally watched all your Bolt Action reviews and you are seriously doing a tremendous job. I would love to see Polish review and I bet there are many people who would like that too. Anyways, solid solid job, I’m glad I subscribed to your channel.
While I understand the point you are making the scenario you posited to show why they suck is so absurd. Why is the inexperienced squad even 1v1 against an equal morale regular squad? Of course if you set up a scenario in which the person playing the unit you say is bad is making a play that is counterintuitive to how you would actually use the unit the conclusion will be: regulars beat inexperienced in a regular engagement. Only my Canadian Army of all greens is almost wholly inexperienced infantry, but that doesn't mean that I don't think about including them in other lists. This is all to say that I love that the game rules allow me to run 200 partisans with BIG IRONS. Not that I'll ever have the time to make such an army. But I think you do inexp units a disservice overall in this video. Or maybe I just like to bring in fun toys too much and am willing to play a more wall-esque infantry game to compensate.
The best use of Inexperienced I have seen was squads of 6 or 7, bum rush objectives near their start line, then put them on ambush ready for when enemy units have to advance to get that objective. The -1 to hit is then passed on to the attacking/moving unit, equalising the 'to hit' between the units, but the inexperienced get to choose when to fire and so impose pins on the attacking units. They can hold their own if used that way. Unless in a big unit then yeah, inexperienced units aren't so great. Good vid 👍🏻👍🏻
I want to assume that you’ve played a lot of bolt action, but apparently you’ve never dealt with an inexperienced horde on the table. One to one, yeah, inexperienced suck.
But when you have 2x the amount of order dice in the bag (or even more) you will activate your units far more often than your opponent and big units of cheap inexperienced infantry are going to throw out more pins on the enemy than you think.
And because you’ve likely activated several units before your opponent, you’re going to have them taking order tests more
Often than your inexperienced troops do.
I love how people who play Finland have no need to even consider inexperienced troops, what with the lack of them what so ever ;)
inexperienced units can be extremely usefull. If you play Germans you can get 10 inexperienced Strafbattalion Soldiers for 55 points. I always take one, sometimes two of those squads with me, they get a lot of bodies on the board (which for Germans is especially hard) and they are an amazing meat shield. I always play them very agressively, usually letting them yeet towards an objective or just place them in a way that makes them easier targets than the units I want to protect, and most enemies go for the bait, which si fine. They arent really supposed to win a firefight or an assault, but just by being there and being a potential threat and/or a juicy target, people will attack them taking away heat from more precious units, and with the amount of shots they churn out (10 shots for 55 points isnt too bad), they will ocassionally hit stuff. Hell sometimes I even yeet them into assault against smaller experienced units, 3-4 of those guys will potentially kill a veteran. Im sure they arent the most meta unit point for point (unless you play Japanese or Russians), but they can be a very effective tool and in my experience the 55 points spent always worked out, more often than not theyd kill stuff worth 50+ points or soaked up fire worth twice or three times their value if it would have hit my veteran grenadiers for example.
They do get extra order dice for cheap though, which can gain you a lot of flexibility and momentum with units you actually care abut. Also, once they're actually on the table, they should probably be used as second line troops anyway, to sit on objectives or in buildings. Actually expecting them to do anything is probably doing it wrong.
Saying that I kind of have to use them since I play a lot of Fall of Singapore British, and couldn't care less about tourney play, so I probably see more value in them than most, simply due to having to!
Yeah I will happily run them in thematic or scenario lists, just not in anything where I know my opponent is trying his hardest to beat me
having a full inexperience infantry list with green might work. You can just spam and possibly get 12+ order dice to really move these inexperience troops around and getting your opponent busy. Also inexperience infantry shooting from buildings become a regular in terms of saves but of course until it get rekt by flame throwers or HE. I wont really field inexperienced troops but it might be useful on some scenario or objectives. Throwing cheap inexperience troops to the frontline and let the regular or vets to deal with the objectives might work too.
and erm.. hitlerjungen green + indoctrination sounds like a fun list to field.. (inb4 being called out for playing with child soldiers)
Oh absolutely. Some units make great use of green and would be super fun in thematic/scenario matches. But in anything competitive they’d probably get squashed.
Oh also, shirkers make for great mobile cover.
Playing as the Americans, I usually like to take 3 MMG teams as inex to hold a single area under fire. Generally in good cover and under 18" to deal only with hc and -1. because they can't move and shoot unless changing arc of fire I'm hitting on single 6. But this is more of playing prevent defense rather than being offensive. Having said that it has helped me Free up the other infantry units to have upgrades and press the attack elsewhere.
105 points for 12 shots and 6 bodies isnt really that good by itself, but the 3 order dice make them amazing. I like the Strafbattalion with 10 bodies, 10 shots for 55 points
I used to have the same opinion, that the multiple penalties in taking inexperienced troops weren't worth the saving in points. But in the hands of a highly skilled player I think they can be somewhat competitive. The trick is to mob and pin isolated enemy forces and use the points saved to bring overwhelming support. The massive dice advantage and threat saturation count for something.
The Soviets are especially good at this as they can take a commissar who gives a +1 to hit aura for inexperienced troops (he's in the Stalingrad book) and the free squad doesn't hurt.
I think this could work with the Soviets because of that aura and the free squad. But I don’t see it working without that
@@HollywoodWargaming The new commissar certainly helps but he's not essential especially as depending on terrain he'll inevitably get sniped out. Honestly he's not the most important part of this sort of build. I think it's the support elements.
Because on top of 66 rifleman, you can take a Katyusha, medium artillery piece, medium mortar, and three ampulomet teams to saturate the board in HE. On top of that I generally have four medium machine guns mounted in transports and jeeps and even a cheap MMG team to lay down supporting fire and then there's still points left over for a flamethrower team or sniper. This build has 19 order dice and doesn't care if you knock out say the mortar, it's only 35 points. There's still a hell of a lot of HE left in the list.
I don't think it's only the Soviets that can do this well, the French can pull the same trick although admittedly not at as effectively. But I haven't lost every match with my inexperienced French. You take five inexperienced squads with VB launchers, plus the free squad. The VB launchers can do work despite the terrible range, if supported by two Medium regular artillery pieces, three motorcycle and sidecar with LMGs, a Renault FT, a medium mortar and everything else. Again it's 19 order dice, a hell of a lot of LG and MMG shots at 36 range, and points for cheap transports to help overwhelm one side of the board with cheap firepower.
You do have to use little tricks to avoid hitting on sevens, like putting your units on ambush to catch them dashing across the open.
But generally I think you're right, there are massive drawbacks to inexperienced troops. I'm not disagreeing with you there. For one thing my French army cost an absolute fortune! But I think Inexperienced forces can work in certain configurations with certain tactics and are extremely anti-meta for most people.
I used a few inexperienced squads, mostly the British Home Guard; saves points and yes a gamble, but I get another squad in or two, depending on size, so I still got alot of board control and units to fire about, plus green can charge the game a bit; and this goes both ways, a 1 is but a roll away.
Sometimes you only want a unit to hold an objective in the backfield. Inexperienced units are great for that.
This is true but a lot of Bolt Action objectives do promote aggression. On top of that a zeroed in mortar can ruin that party. Obviously easier said than done but I don’t usually believe the backfield objective jumper investment. I think the flexibility you get from the extra points is worth it. Hope that makes sense
I agree with everything you said. With my Italian army I would never use inexperienced units, its just to risky with the Avanti Savio rule.
Also any inexperienced infantry unit within 6 inchs of the Soviet commissar ignores the -1 to hit for being inexperienced. The soviets can also take a 20 man inexperienced green squad. I think if you take two 20 man squads and place the commissar next to them they can be pretty potent.
I actually did not know that about Soviet’s. That’s a huge buff. As for the giant inexp squads, I forgot to mention units like that and bamboo spearmen.
20 man inexperienced squad? which expansion is this? Unless I missed something, that's not in the Armies of.. book
@@econeffects9808 its the jewish partisan squad (based of the defiance movie). They are in the osftront book.
It's actually a really good squad. They can take a panzerfust, as well as they get upgraded to fanatic and tough fighters if your opponent as any SS squads.
interesting since at my local game store, early war french spamming inex would roll any faction
Strange. I tried that when I started my free French and they’re just wet paper.
Another great video, fully agree on your points. Still use them for our games, because sometimes you have to take what you get in spezial settings.
And as for ways to go about it,, do regualr and vet troops, the go down the Generic Platoon list, officer, medic, observer, infantry, etc etc.
Already have the Reg and Vet uploaded and scheduled ;)
Good video. I shared it on the Bolt Action Facebook page.
Rewatching this and listening to you talk about Green, I’m wondering on your thoughts on Volksgrenadiers. Mordian Glory did a really good video on them and I was wondering your thoughts
Full volksgrenadiers armies are super fun , but yes super risky and 100% a gamblers army
Thanks for you content! Very helpful for a beginner!
i do take transport as inexperienced to save points. But if i plan on using them to outflank/reserves or have a MMG then i take them as regular. If i plan to put a small team in them and rush to take an objective on turn one then i use inexperience.
That’s a risky move IMO. I’ve had inexp transportation fail an order test and tarpit my army.
Imho, inexperience are good only if they have green (which is free) or some other good extra rules (native irregular pre points change, or 1 point cheaper, are a nice example).
Really interesting video. Appreciate the detail and even more so, the reasons why. Not sure what I can do playing soviets with the Stalingrad builder. Haven’t played with them yet, for obvious reasons
This explains why my friend wanted help with his writing his replacement for Bolt Action. Why have units that are only 30% cheaper, but almost never can activate?
but it makes sense, you have inexperienced, experienced and veteran units:
-1
0
+1
makes sense
How do EW forces get on then ? not all of them can use regular and vets. Soviets seems to be almost all inexperienced in EW, I'm sure other forces have similar.
Yeah between Luftwaffe Ground units or Volk Grenadiers I went with the Volks as they have a few benefits over most other inexperience German infantry units. First you can pretty much arm them to the teeth with MP-40/Stg-44/MG-42, and Panzerfaust. But the main advantage is that on the first casualty you roll a morale test and if you get a 5 or 6 they go to a regular unit then roll again and if you get a 5 or 6 they go to veteran. Sure it's a risk but it also is cheaper doing it this way and possibly getting a regular or veteran unit at a discount during the game without putting the points into said unit.
But all my vehicles minus transports are veterans as that is where most of my points are put into as a way to back them up. Nothing more scary than a Brummbar, Puma, or a Panther out there showing up while you think you have a low morale infantry unit pinned and so about to be wiped out. Then the tables can be turned.
I see you did a lot of different country army reviews, are you planning on having Polish troops reviewed too?
I get a lot of requests for Poland so I’ll probably have to do it. But unfortunately it would only be covering their armies of lists and units, not the special units or lists from the campaign books like Market Garden
@@HollywoodWargaming I literally watched all your Bolt Action reviews and you are seriously doing a tremendous job. I would love to see Polish review and I bet there are many people who would like that too. Anyways, solid solid job, I’m glad I subscribed to your channel.
Well Chinese get a one full 14 man squad for free.
How would you go about making inexperienced troops more viable?
Bringing their points down, removing the -1 to hit, or increasing the aura buffs of Officers to help them perform better
I mean sure. You can shoot. But, I have 250+ Models on the table. Can you kill them all before the game ends?
only if they’re unpainted
While I understand the point you are making the scenario you posited to show why they suck is so absurd. Why is the inexperienced squad even 1v1 against an equal morale regular squad? Of course if you set up a scenario in which the person playing the unit you say is bad is making a play that is counterintuitive to how you would actually use the unit the conclusion will be: regulars beat inexperienced in a regular engagement. Only my Canadian Army of all greens is almost wholly inexperienced infantry, but that doesn't mean that I don't think about including them in other lists. This is all to say that I love that the game rules allow me to run 200 partisans with BIG IRONS. Not that I'll ever have the time to make such an army. But I think you do inexp units a disservice overall in this video. Or maybe I just like to bring in fun toys too much and am willing to play a more wall-esque infantry game to compensate.
Yup inexperienced are pretty worthless, if they didn't have the -1 to hit then maybe, like Volksgrenadiers would be ok but otherwise nope.
If they had no -1 to hit i would field only inexperience stuff.
Seriously, i would flood the table with inexperience stuff all the way
Yep... don't do it