Infinite Scaling: A Useless Mechanic? | League of Legends
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- About 10% of League of Legends' roster features champions who have a mechanic or ability that grows stronger or more efficient over time, external from natural scaling sources like levels, items and such. Today we're gonna talk about Infinite Scaling: Is it a really scary thing? Or a useless mechanic?
Champion Group Discussion Playlist: bit.ly/3z1PDjL
Support me on Patreon! bit.ly/3iy5pvu
Donate to the channel! bit.ly/36TpIQP
~Editor (Aphrow)~
Twitter: / aphrew
Twitch: / afrew
RUclips: / @aphrow
Website: www.aphediting...
~Contact Links~
Discord: bit.ly/33M2iev
Twitter: bit.ly/3kv7CZU
Twitch: bit.ly/2XNes31
Candle.gg: bit.ly/3ndfU9r
Email: varsverum@gmail.com (Business inquiries only)
Graphics provided by: tofugraphics.c...
#LoL #Infinite #Scaling
One thing a lot of new players don't get about these type of mechanics is that they aren't a bonus, they're a hindrance. It's not some thing the champ *can* do to get ahead, it's something they *have* to do to keep up.
Exactly!
I would says yes to all but kindred. Edit: and cho
I kinda disagree on Veigar though, he's got CC and burst with good ratios. The scaling only lets him snowball harder, his problem is rather the amount of mobility in the game atm.
@@themuffinprincesa21 and imo viegar, cus like viegar alone is already really strong in teamfights if he survives laning, with a amazing e and r
@@d4s0n282 but his passive doesn't strictly give him power to scale. Don't get me wrong Veig can be strong but if he is into anyone with mobility (kat,kass,fizz,zed etc) he can't get to his stacks and is useless. Cho scaling adds to his kill combo (ult) and the bonus hp adds to his E damage. Kindred allows you counter jungle and get more out of it, and more out of ganks that you're already doing which means their scaling mechanic is also a bonus.
Everybody gangsta till Nasus starts farming champions with his Q
what crap of a champ he is ....
@@_darkavenger why ?
I think he fine
@@unknowguy9642 he is over tuned fr low elo 😂
@@_darkavenger he’s op in low elo cause they don’t know how to punish and zone him off farm
@@Cynsham my low elo team mates keep complaining when i play mid on my second account 😂
You forgot Yasuo infinitely scaling deaths
Underrated comment
Death is like the wind
@@panlis6243 Always by my side
XD
There is only death mine or mine
I like these champions because they are very good at teaching you fundamentals of the game. They teach you to farm well, too learn how to play passive, learn what powers spikes are and how to take advantage of them, and most importantly how to play from behind (most people can't comprehend nowadays)
exactly champs like Kayle and Nasus are all about just managing your laning phase and split pushing, be patient and then they become GG's
lEagUe PlAyeRs TheSe dAys
@@magical571 they suck
na nasus level 6 power spike is godly if you have decent q stacks its far most than what most champions can suddenly do
@@samcan9997 if you hit 6 first it's a guaranteed kill. With some good wave management it's not hard to get an exp lead.
The reason Nasus and Veigar have the easiest time benefitting from their stacks is due to items. Veigar's strongest attribute is the ability to build cheap AP items and still hit as hard as another mage who's going for the expensive stuff. Nasus builds whatever is the best Sheen item and then full tank, because he can get the flat damage he needs from stacking Q.
If there were more (and better) items that let you stack resistances, Sion and Cho'Gath would be a lot stronger since they're already getting max health from their kit.
Then we have Kindred and Senna, who can't really build around their stacking. Kindred still needs marksman items even if their stacks give them similar stats because marksmen cannot function without getting those stats as fast as possible.
ADC items scale multiplicatively so flat ad, crit and attack speed scale really well with items. Then there's also the fact that both Senna and Kindred gets range which is massive.
i mean you can build legit anything on senna the passive is more just to spit on your opponent
plus who doesnt like a 600AP senna who hits with 300AD with shit like demonics or other memeable items
Also, at like 80 stacks (which is totally achievable) you've essentially got the equivalent AP as an item with more AP to come, which leaves you free to build a straight tank item like Gargoyle's if you wish (especially if you've already grabbed Zhonya's, Banshee's and deathcap) just so you can say fuck you to anyone trying to 1-shot you with lethality/flat magic pen builds - after all, what's an additional 60-100ish damage on abilities that already do several hundred if not a thousand odd damage - compared to surviving to getting another cast or two off?
As for Senna, her passive makes her straight up the best marksman, as the crit she gets from souls means she doesn't need 5 crit items to unlock her full potential (plus she can get 100% crit before reaching full build, which only Yasuo and Yone can match). Without the obligation to finish a crit build she has the most freedom in build-diversity - meaning unlike other marksmen she can pick up items like Ravenous hydra for omnivamp and better AoE for teamfights or bruiser items so she can be a bit less squishy, after all, the difference between being one-shot or two-shot can be survival if you have teammates who can peel or are able to flash away from danger. The fact she can do all that while also being the safest mid/late-game marksman with the longest engagement distance is ridiculous, the only reason she's not perma-banned or nerfed to the ground is because people are locked into modes of thinking that became outdated when damage and mobility creep made the ADC role less prominent. Throw in Grasp (assuming your laning partner has some CC, e.g. a Senna support with an Ashe or Senna ADC with, well pretty much any reasonable support) and once you reach late-game you have the nearest thing in League to a cheat code.
@@Neion8 if you want something funny build pure crit+lifesteal and LDR or shereldas on senna you can get >100% lifesteal and 1 hit fill your intire hp bar
They can be kind of frustrating to play against (especially veigar cage, that thing is more powerful than most ultimates on an 8 second cooldown lategame), but almost all of them are just alright, senna can be really difficult to deal with and is kind of a balance nightmare due to her flexibility though, she's the ezreal of infinite scaling champs
Literally a better version of Thresh ultimate
Technically the cooldown is 3 seconds then because it stays around for 5 seconds so yeah
Dont forget to add Sion(Cho much slower), Bard and Thresh.
Sion health scaling is the only reason i can do leathality sion
And Swain
and kindred
@@brotkruemel5628 fun fact: kindred bonus attack range has a cap
@@dahviper6731 yeah, at 25 marks, but her numbers still increase
The only thing I would change is probably make it so that Kindred's first 4 stacks spawn on their jungle (or scuttle) instead of just scuttle for the 0-1 threshold. Kindred is barely a champion until 7 stacks, and the first 4 threshold is imperative for them to reach because they have really low attack range and lacking damage prior to reaching that, and their first attack range increase only happens once they reach 4 stacks.
Many games I simply couldn't get to the first 4 simply because the mark being seen on everyone's map meant it was really easy for the enemy jungler to either take the crab or counterjungle me while taking it altogether, and compared to the old version of their passive where it gave current health damage per stack, the newer one always felt like an unnecessary nerf instead of a rework to better improve their power budget.
Considering how league matches actually work on a timer, infinite scalers do essentially have a limit. Thinking about it this way, infinite scaling is just a way to give champions pure extra stats (most of the time) under certain (usually easy to obtain) constraints over match time.
they should make q stacks make nasus e armour shread consist after they leave the radius is they are withered (so that youd still want to engage with e as usual, and not raw damage so ap nasus isnt more annoying).
In my experience as a Veigar player, and over all, I think that the three that have significant threat of breaking the late game are Veigar, Cho, and Nasus, but Veigar more. The mentioned problem for Nasus is that he's melee, if the enemy team has CC, he's pretty screwed. Cho has the ability to close on people because of his Q, which is terrifying, however, if you have a bad game, that scaling's never happening if you aren't able to get unique feasts. Veigar, though, has such a ridiculous burst potential if you can learn to land his skill shots, and he has the ability to self peel, and his abilities are ranged. For all those who say Veigar is stupid easy because he has a point and click R, remember that every other ability is a skill shot. A Veigar that's worth anything will keep farming through the whole game. Stack every AP he can because by the time you hit about 250 stacks, you delete tanks if you took cut down and horizon focus, and half the time you don't even need your ult for them. The only thing that continues to be a problem for Veigar are people who can pass through his cage, or can get to him so fast that he dies before he has a chance to cast it. I've beaten 1800 ap, and it doesn't take an hour and a half. It just takes a dedication to stacking and doing everything you can to grab a stack. Last hitting drag, stealing the small chickens, poking, participating in team fights, and of course double stacking on minion last hits with Q. That's really all it takes. Are you behind? Just keep stacking. By the time you get to 35 minutes, you will be a powerhouse even if the rest of your game has sucked.
Veigar rework
Q starts as only one hit (doesnt pass)
25 Stacks 2nd hit
50 Cd refond after hitting a Champ (30%-ish)
75 3rd hiit
100 longer range
W Stays
E same functionallity
50 Stacks allies get movementspeed while passing (decaying)
100 Enemies can get hit multiple times
R
100 Stacks leaves an area around the main target that deals damage equal to the Overkill damage on the main target over a set time
Cho
After 6 Stacks useing his feast on minion/ non-epic monster gives him boni
Minion % health Dmg scaling on his basic abilities
Monster bonus tenacity
Also cd refund after 6 stacks while using it on creeps (similar to the pre-rework)
Thresh
50 souls he can cast his r the box on an allied champ (but with veigar like delay)
100 souls his box last 2 - 3 times and the walls regenerate
69 if an ally refuse to use his lantern they get a bug splash and half their gold goes to Thresh instead (joke)
Hmm how to rework an infinite scaler....
Well for Veigar
Tier 1 (100 Stacks): His Q transforms into a damaging line ability.
Tier 2 (500 Stacks): His E also creates a smaller cage inside the cage, making the safe zone radius from 250 to 125.
Tier 3 (1000 Stacks): His W's damage radius gets 160 units larger ( is now as big as the 400 unit radius for his cage)
Pretty sure this is is less fair, but at the same time its just for a silly thought experiment.
3:50 New Asol... range, damage, AOE, mobiility, everything scales with stacks.
As a former OTP veigar I say that he is okay, the biggest question is if your team(or you can say the jungler) wants to play around you. You can easly get ahead if they do, but soloq you cant expect that to happen. But I would really like at least +5 mobility on veigar.
The thing with some of the infinite scalers is that their stacks are essentially an extra item, sometime 2. That can be huge at times, especially if they are ones played as a support.
Hey hey! You forgot a small factoid about Kindred's scaling. Kindred also gains bonus attack range with marks, but this scaling stops after 25 marks.
As a veigar player I have to say the amount of stacks u get is a little insane but u have like 0 mobility in your kit so it’s balanced.
Veigar actually scales so fast that u can go mythic, rabadons and then just tank items and still oneshot non-tanks.
I had a game a few days ago where I got some free kills in the early phase of the game and ended um with 1000 AP and 5,2k health at 35 minutes which is quite insane in my opinion
MFW new Sol has all his abilites scale off of his infinite scaling passive
fun fact: shyvana passive didn't work on elder drakes until recently, aka like past year or 2
i know its kinda late but kindred also gets bonus range at 4 marks, and every 3 marks aftwerwards
This may go against the spirit of the video/ending question, but I would remove the mechanic altogether. I play thresh and senna alot and love them, but I would gladly give up their infinite scaling if it meant getting rid of all infinite mechanics like this.
The balance to go into these mechanics require such a fine line to be balanced, that a single unrelated change can potentially tip them into being OP or worthless. And thats just from the base game. It gets worse as you look at skill levels of play. Nasus is laughable in high elo because the players know how to coordinate to crush him, but in low elo he can be one of the most disheartening forces because building him pure tank while getting high end stacks can result in him being unkillable until the team figures out how to band together. Not because nasus is skilled, but because his stats are just that much bigger. For lower skilled/newer players this can be damaging because otherwise, they may have done everything right but there was simply the great wall of Nasus existing. (I have problems with Yi as a champion for similar reasons).
I believe that lower tiers of play deserve balance just as much as higher tiers, and I feel like these sorts of champions contribute to the toxicity of the game due to their low tier dominance of the game ruining the early lifespan of newer players.
'n yeah, that's my 5 minute essay.
I am a chogath main. I think I safely speak for all of us when I say that they need to uncap his character model growth from R's. Also, maybe if u hit 40 stacks you should be able to chomp towers and inhibitors
Infinite scaling shouldn't be a thing. If you're having a hard game and it's really even, maybe you have a really bad player on your side and the enemy has a terrible toplaner who plays nasus, all of a sudden it doesnt matter if the nasus player sucks since he will do more damage than kassadin while being tankier than ornn due to healing so much from his damage + passive while having a full tank build
you forget that cho also gets extra damage from stacks also.
Nasus feels kind of useless come lategame. Damage isn't his issue and never was, his problem is how fast he melts once enemies have their items.
Having a second tank to soak damage really helps with nasus, also by the time of lategame my priority as a nasus is melting those tower with Q.
@@andreitaker3527 True that! The problem with that is that come lategame where death timers are long and objectives can't be given, I feel like I'm too needed for fights and I can't use all my stacks to split. You know?
That rework is kina wierd. Aoe q would make it possible to stack more than one minion at a time and his w is already a 90% slow and reduces attack speed giving him a root wouldn't be that much of a change. I suggest they move wither to his e and make it reach 90% faster then give him damage reduction as his w.
As a Swain player I can say his infdinite scaling gives you like 0.75 to 1.1 items worth of health if you are doing good
Give Sion more control on the ult after X amonts of HP.
I swear whenever riot dont know how to make a champion scale late game they will just slap infinite scaling on it
Did Swain even make this list? His cooldowns are so long and his gains so meager, it's barely worth mentioning.
Veigar still contribute without stack though. His passive just make him snowball harder and even without Stacked. Have you ever fight a team fight agaisnt a Veigar who's smart enough to max e second ?
"its not like senna turns into xerath and can snipe you from 2 screens away"
*I beg to differ*
yep, i played alot of senna and that can happen when u get close to 200 souls
@@rafabellini5267 no need for 200 , just a RFC and 100-120 souls is enough .
Senna doesnt get tankier ? i guess he doesnt know senna's run grasp, bone plating, overgrowth and health items into engage lol
I once had to lane against Senna in top lane as Shen. I could not approach any minions without getting riddled with bullets.
@@Shtutaq that's the worst Senna build.
Why would you go that when you have so much range that they shouldn't even get to you in the first place + you have self peel. And on top of that the build is nerfed to the ground.
Useless until that 1000 stacks Nasus disappears from his lane.
Give Q a Drakhtar Passive when he hits 1k stacks, im in
and gets kited to oblivion
@@Raiko01 uses -100% increasing movespeed skill*
@@Raiko01* Slows you up to 90% with ghost activated*: "And who decided that?"
@@Raiko01 Ever had a nasus W you?
My Nasus ally farmed for 30 minutes straight and managed to oneshot all enemy towers and gave us the victory screen while we dealt with the 5 enemies invading our base. I love that Nasus.
Bonk
Yeah Nasus is trash in teamfights, but he absolutely shreds towers lmao
The reason why I stopped playing to lane lol. Even if I was 12/1/0 against 0/9/0 nasus it doesn't matter if he one shot our base
@@Takin2000 nasus Is the same as fiora. They thrive in one on one fights
@@satriahadi1893 yeah exactly
Just go Trundle and Subjugate the enemy Sion, his scaling is now your scaling for your ultimate lol
Then Mordekaiser also scales infinitely!
@@loisolano6041 mordekaiser steals base stats
@@kilgor4502 no?
@@kilgor4502 No, he steals a percentage of core stats like ad AP and attack speed. Not base. All your items make him stronger
@@fashionsuckman4652 being a sion main I rather play against trundle then morde every day of the week. Morde is shit but against sion it feels like Thanos
Not useless when the 0/20 nasus one shots you.
Woof woof
I think if the 0/20 nasus can get close enough to you to one shot you, it is kinda your fault
As a nasus main I can confirm it's their fault for letting you get close
@@potatolord5774 you’re right pressing wither (which is the range of a marksman aa) being having someone slowed for 99%, while nasus runs at you with approach velocity and enhanced boots. Is far too hard to nasus to approach his target.
@@Punchaubuns Galeforce FTW
It's hugely important to talk about Vayne and Fiora in this video as their % max health true damage abilities, in effect, scale infinitely with champion health.
@zahando i mean for fiora it definitely is implied, but Vayne has zero romantic hints
Champion health doesn’t scale infinitely most of the time though so that’s moot
@@changthunderwang7543it does with runes like overgrowth. But either way, it doesn’t scale then you’re still good playing fiora
infinite scaling isn't necessarily useless, it adds a separate goal in a match aside from hitting item and level spikes. However, this gameplay element of stacks only adds to your pure stats and doesn't actually change the gameplay or dynamic of the champ when compared to a kayle or kha. sure it can be scary to deal with, but a smart team can easily shut down scaling champs with enough effort. a side note as well, contrary to popular belief, I think that scaling champs such as Nasus and viegar are actually midgame because once other champs start finishing off their builds, they can win any fight just as easily as an infinite scaling champ can. TLDR not useless, just kinda boring
They're midgame until the match goes to 1 hour and Veigar can one-shot people with Q lol
Yeah, at about 200 stacks if nasus has sheen, he can fight you, and if he has 300 he basically just wins the lane
@@minimoYT full build vlad can oneshot a whole team and doesnt have infinite scaling
@@hashteraksgage3281 but match this day dont go that long
Nasus is midgame, but Veigar is yes, really strong in midgame, but even stronger in lategame because his stacks are more easy to have the more the game progresses
"Rework idea for Nasus, his W can root"
Me, an assassin player: *what*
It already can though?
@@JrKengu its a slow
@@red_freeman9499 really? I didn’t notice because it slows by up to 100% over the duration, with almost no cooldown. Hmm maybe u are right, I must have mistaken it for a root then!!
@@JrKengu League has a minimum movement speed of 110. You can't get slowed more than what is realistically 2/3 if you have low movement speed or 3/4 if you have high movement speed.
@@Stevenxsx well no, technically you can, it’s called a root, and that is what nasus W does, practically.
Titanic Hydra on Sion gives infinite AD, technically.
Imagine if Atma's Impaler was still around
@Shadow Slime That's what technically means...
So do Gore drinker then
TRUE
@@dylanhelvetios2300 no cuase it's capped at 15%
"If there was a champion whose entire kit scaled infinitely they'd be broken."
This didn't age well. We need a video for new A-Sol. This had me in tears
I mean Veigar also kinda has infinite scaling on all abilities and now we got Smolder too
@Klaas_F0X The difference being that their entire kit doesn't scale infinitely like new Aurelion Sol's kit does. His Q damage increases with stardust, W travel distance, E size and execute threshold, and R radius all scale with his Stardust. Kindred comes close to this as her marks upgrade her W, E, and Q, but not her and also her marks aren't very significant upgrades either in my opinion.
Sion's passive is pretty good actually, since his shield is based on health, and with Titanic, he's basically a lesser Senna, where her abilities and attacks get slowly stronger. Getting 60+ AD bonus from Titanic on Sion always feels monsterous. Basically makes him scale with durability and damage at the same time
fair, but its still so tiny, that its barely anything, and tanks are just overtaken by scaling mages like kassadin or adcs late game
@@d4s0n282 Yeah, but that's kind of the thing. Other tanks fall off, while Sion still gets stronger, even if slighty. Which makes him an unique case in the case of tanks, making him pretty good.
@@katamas832 would be the same with cho^ since his e and r also scales off hp, and he gains a ruby crystal per kill with r
Imo Cho scales much faster and does have much more utility,you have q that is very easy to land in teamfights with airborne and slow,w with silence and e with slow,while sion can only try to land q and get stunned,and try to hit someone with e,which does almost nothing in teamfight.Also sion ult is nigh useless in fights,it simply grants you ability to run away when you splitpush. To get sion stacks fast you need to fight creeps instead of champs which again leads to splitpush.Literally the only thing sion can do well
@@d4s0n282 and has a huge base AD with low dmg, mostly CC abilities.......
There was this one game that I'll never forget where our support left the game early on while I was playing Senna ADC.
Thing is, I had dark harvest and gathering storm, and the rest of my team was competent enough to stall. The game went on for like well over a full hour to the point where everyone was full build and I have so many stacks that I could auto towers from outside of their range and could quickly take down even their tanks. Thanks to that insane scaling I was able to successfully win the 4v5
It was just me fulfilling my ultimate late game scaling fantasy and no other game ever came even close to it.
We live for that as a cho main I won't forget that game where no joke it was like over 200minutes long at that point I was at well over 60 stakes and was one shoting ppl with my e while having 25k+ hp without gargoyle at that point I just ran straight mid and one shot there towers one by one with demolish. GL infinite scaling brother to get that 1 gem of a game that will fulfill your fantasy.
@@skelet8337 hahahaha both of you are right, it’s the best feeling
If they couldn't close a 4v5 for sixty minutes, they absolutely deserve to lose that :D
@@skelet8337 yesssss cho mains
I had a similar experience when I played Nasus and almost got 1000 stacks at 30, a lot happened that game, so I was so strong that I could nearly 1 v 5 entire enemy team. I only died because of a crit hit but I will never forget the enemy team typing in all chat just to say “get this fucking demon away from me”
*PTSD flashbacks to Shyvana roaring out of the jungle with a ramped-up Feral Flare*
Veigar's stacks also reduce the CD of his W, a 100% ap ratio ability. The limit is 0s CD
its funny to just spam w and make it undodgable
@@anonymousnyancat492 yeah but your mana is also funny because if you can spam W then you will evaporate your mana in a second maybe that's why they do not want us to reach a certain point where veigar can spam W.
@@joveninocando1386 blue buff
"thankfully there is no champ that entire gameplay infinitely scales" *Asol rework comes out* yeah, idk
Veigar?
Not useless for Nasus. There's no better feeling than coming to teamfights after 30 mins of farming to 2 shot the adc,mid and jg.
His passive lifesteal allows him to, to the most part ignore enemy dmg early game, so he can pretty safely last hit minions with Q. Lategame his 1 Q just heals like a third of his hp bar, while also 1 shotting that 13/2 jinx xD
Thing is a good jinx +support will kite you and never let her get hit. Nasus is MUCH better in the midgame. Coming into a team fight with 300 stacks and 2 items at 15 mins you are one of the strongest champs in the game. Tanky, insane damage, sustain, hard to kite midgame (w + flash or ghost), turret shredding, good 1vs 1. But late game you have no aoe, no dash/movespeed up and everyone else has tank shred+ crazy cc. Best you can do is splitpush which other champs do better. Way better to push your lead In the midgame.
@@shanecoffing yea. Midgame nasus better, but if you get lead you will stomp even late. Thing is jinx doesn't have any mobility so all you need is ghost + W and she's back at fountain
@@Symasas225 Which is why Jinx is going to run around with a tank or a support who will CC you for enough time to either let her escape or even kill you, since most ADCs are able to easily shred tanks in the late game. Even then, once your ult is over you're just a bit more threatening than a cannon minion, so even just kiting you and running away is a victory for them
Edit: which is why Nasus's main goal is splitpushing: if the enemy team only sends melees or champions with no CC, you will usually be able to either win the fight or at least get away safely. On the other hand, if they send their best teamfighters, they will lose a lot of map agency and allow your team to win objectives much more easily
@@Zakaker good point. In low elo no adc is smart enough to not face check that brush though
nasus just needs to point and click the adc into a wheelchair with wither and his job is done, the siphoning strike stacks are an afterthought
No idea how this channel isn’t bigger, it’s been my absolute favorite league channel for the past couple months and I’ve learned so much, keep up the good work
We're almost at 100k! :D
Infinite scaling I'd argue is also a good tool to help teach some mechanics on those champions. Kill-based infinite scaling stacks lets a player better gauge last hitting, things like Kindred and Bard's stacks may promote map awareness or roaming skills, Swain's stacks may promote being better aware of root opportunities etc.
I started playing swain recently. Due to his W I have gotten used to playing with my camera unlocked on pretty much all champions and I'm much more aware of what is going on around the map as I need to check if I can hit anyone with my W.
I really think he can be a useful champion to improve your map awareness and camera controls.
Kindred stacks also promote counter jungling.
I kind of like Infinite scaling bc it adds another feature to the game state where against champs like Nasus your main goal is to freez the wave and prevent him from getting stacks, it also adds pressure on you to end the game earlly.
That's the game plan against every champ in top
@@dizzyheads pretty much
Unless youre against quinn you just freeze and deny exp by zoning
So you just said it promotes uninteractive gameplay from both sides and that's a good thing?
@@theodorechatzis7881 Well, the counter to his stated tactic is to roam - part of the reason many toplaners take teleport - which actually increases overall interactivity between the lanes. If your opponent decides to take the advantage of the now empty lane to push up and farm tower plates, you can return with your jungler/midlaner who are newly freed up by the gank you helped pull off to punish the overextention and freeze them in reply. The advantage of helping your teammates get fed by this tactic also can not be overstated, as even if you loose laning phase due to a sub-optimal start, having fed team-mates to carry you can more than make up for it.
Also, pressure to end the game early can lead to less cautious and more interesting gameplay such as Jungle invades, towerdives you weren't certain you could pull off, risky objectives or starting fights that you didn't have an obvious advantage in - a nice change from the passive-aggressive farming simulator that is the start of most League games.
@@Neion8 All of what you are saying is absolutely right and i honestly can't disagree, but how many of those things are possible in a soloq environment. I mean, in reality your mid or jungle will never cover you or your wave and any leads you give to your teammates will essentially be in vain as they are most likely to throw. However, freezing sometimes does work, i have to admit that, but then again it prevents you to do all of the above as it gives free prio to the enemy laner. You can't roam, you can't rotate. What i'm trying to say is that scaling champs give the player too much safety so no matter how bad he plays the laning phase he will usually just outscale you.
In my opinion, as a Nasus player, he has one important property, he shreds turrets, by himself. He is Tryndamere levels of splitpusher, if not more past a certain amount of time, and unless they have akali or katarina or anybody with large aoe dmg lategame, he has atleast 1,5 min to oneshot all towers, and by definition, the nexus :)
If you're bad at the game it makes all your 50 minute long games pretty fun
One time, I did actually get 1000 or so stacks on nasus cause of this
@@Celestial-yq6hz Nasus in low elo is so fun. You kinda die if they know how to kite, but one shotting everyone with ghost on is the best feeling
Oh, sorry for actually trying to play the league of legends instead of team deathmatch
@@fashionsuckman4652 technically the slow should make it very difficult for them to kite
@@Celestial-yq6hz Well in team fights ppl usually put quite a bit of resources into making you slow or unable to move.
leave veigar alone he's perfectly designed theres nothing wrong with him, Nasus though can eat a soggy biscuit and shove one up
there's nothing wrong with any of them
Nasus is a fair champion that will always have the lesser priority on his lane.
Fuck you Veigar apologizer, Nasus is great
@@Dexuz he is a bad champion.
@@h4imon nasus is literally broken, the only reason no one plays him is because they don't want to play safe for like 25 cs and they don't want to wait for ghost cd. nasus perma wins every 1v1 in the entire game once he hits 6 + sheen + 60 or more stacks. he has literally never been stronger with the addition of uncapped cdr and how overpowered his r is. if nasus is playable at high elo (T1 is a huge commentor on this) he isn't balanced that patch
"Thankfully, there's no champion in league whose gameplay infinitely scales"
Me, a kindred main: Hmm, interesting
(but seriously tho, their stacks are hard and inconsistent to get, and you need quite a bunch to start to feel the impact of the scaling on all 3 basic abilities)
Very clever choice of music as always, Vars. Using the soundtrack for PMD rescue team DX's final dungeon, a tower made out of clouds that stretches infinitely into the sky, as background noise in a video talking about infinite scaling!
I see what you did there.
Oops you caught me XD
Thats the og rescue team version of sky tower im pretty sure tho
@@V2ULTRAKill my bad. I didn't pay too close attention to it.
I love playing infinitely scaling champs, late game macro is quite possibly the most fun aspect of the game for me. However, I do personally think Shyvana in current state barely counts as an infinitely scaling champ, reason being that her stacks are unlike any other champ in the category. At best, she can get 1 stack every 5 minutes, the only thing even comparable to that is Cho with his ult (and Sylas with Cho’s ult), even then, those champs aren’t forced to wait for the dragon in order to stack effectively. Her actual stack stats is also quite possibly one of the most pitiful things in the game, 5 armor and magic resistance every 5 minutes (assuming you get every dragon) is honestly not even valuable. I can only hope that when she inevitably gets her rework in a couple years, after Udyr and probably Skarner, they either make her stacking more valuable or get rid of the mechanic entirely in exchange for something else
??? heh? not really for cho, his ult is not nearly that long
@@d4s0n282 not that long and not forced to stack on one monster and one monster only, yes. it is still the only comparison close in that regard
They could update it so baron also counts, together with large monsters and champions, even if with lesser value (only +2 or something)
Change +5 armor and magic resist to +5% Armor and Magic Resist. Boom, now it’s more appealing to go after every 5 min and helps shyvana scale defensively with greater impact.
But it's every dragon she kills, so A'Sol should TECHNICALLY give her the stacks. Unless they changed it to only the Drake, but she, in theory, should always kill A'Sol and stack every death from him.
I'd love to see Sion's passive involved with his infinite stacking. Say, for every 100 stacks you get with furnace, your speed and and attack speed when reanimated increases by 5%. Either that or have the thresholds, where after some amount of stacks his first auto attack on an enemy when reanimated stuns
Dear lord.
i mean it kinda already does since the more hp he has the longer he can stay alive with his passive
why Senna has a 600 range auto-attack?
Its 680
I think this is the same range as Caitlyn and Ashe
@@Celestial-yq6hz Cait has 650, Ashe 600 and Senna also 600
as senna i've gotten like less than 5 stacks away from outranging towers so many times, it causes me pain
"Fortunately we don't have any champions that scale everything infinitely as that would be incredibly broken"
oh yeah it hasn't aged well
13:26 That bard casually stuning someone in fountain while Vars talking made my day.
Minor correction here, Cho doesn’t actually infinitely scale. Apparently the max stax is like 495 or something
There is a point where he stops getting "bigger" and just gains stats instead of size.
@@andrewplehn4805 yeah after he got so big he covered the intire base area
Vars: "There are 11 infinite scalers in the game.
Me who picks Grasp and gathering storm for every champion: "Are you sure about that?"
Overgrowth: Bonjour
I just want to mention that Veigar being able to hit an additional time with his Q is the most broken effect you can give him bar extremely ridiculous buffs. It makes his scaling faster, and would make him such a prominent midgame threat he’s going to get perma-ganked the entire game and STILL hit 250 stacks by 25.
i mean ganking veigar is normally free stacks
I always wanted Nasus’s q to have a “gain x” or something upon reaching a certain threshold. Like, at 300 stacks his Q could gain something small like 5 bonus lethality for just the q, 450 stacks E gaining true sight on anything inside it, 600 stacks his wither becomes a 3 second slow instead but with a 1.5 second stun at the end of the slow.
I would like a nasus rework where all his abilities stack and have certain new effects at certain thresholds where you choose what you need to stack depending on the enemy
Why tho? A good nasus player can reach 1000q in more or less than 25 min so i dont think the idea of give him more mechanic to his kit is balance
Justaname wrong 500 by 20 is very very good if you play anywhere above gold and almost impossible diamond+
1000 by 30 is almost unheard of these days because of how quick games end and how teamfight reliant the game is these days
Changes would be balanced I think
Useless bc game decided at 15 minutes bc snowball rate ruined the game
I'd remove Shyvana her dragon interaction outright, the source is just too well contested and its the only way she can get it, so it's usually just an aftertought but as a Shyvana player it is also frustrating that you sometimes just cannot interact with the system at all.(Besides, thematically it is rather weak)
They really need to rework her passive.. Either enemy jungler is bad or enemy team in general and just lets you take drags and you become immortal for no reason or you don't get drags and die like a fly.. Also ap shyvana shouldn't be a thing, change my mind, at least not in the way it is rn, making her into an annoying 1 button champ that is useless outside of ult
Now that we have a new Aurelion Sol that also infi-scales. They took your idea that the more you collect the stronger you become. A Sol’s abilities upgrade when he reaches a certain amount of stardust, and they will continue to upgrade the longer the game goes on.
That is definitely how they should update these infi-scalers
12:36 To be fair, Veigar's W already does get an extra 10% cooldown reduction for every 50 stacks of his passive. I mean I know it isn't exactly the same thing but eh
when you can cast 3 metors at the same time though xd
"Infinite Scaling is usually locked to a specific mechanic and or stat in that champions kit, and thankfully there is no champion in league who's entire gameplay infinitely scales. If they did, that would be broken."
*My name's Ignacarious Gigantareno Rex Le Spes Offerentis, but my human friend named me Smolder.*
Infinite scaling is my favorite mechanic in the game, I love every single of the champions that have it
“how many of your games went over 60 minutes”
euw players: i’m about to end this man’s whole career
Having these kind of champions makes the enemy end the game quickly or else....
Yeah, that's a heavy question mark Vars. Reading the comments and in my own opinion, scaling is important to give people hope on holding out vs early stompers. It gives good practice for safe laning and farming, and overall it's just more fun than simply farm farm farm kill kill kill
That's literally the opposite of what most people want.
No one wants to sit in lane playing safe farming for 30min to have a decisive fight.
We had that meta and most people hated it.
@@fiethsing9988 If I wanted to have a teamfight simulator like League's current super-flashiness is tending towards I'd play Battlerite. There's a middle ground to be reached here - scaling champs either need to be sped up or everybody else slowed down so many matches don't just boil down to the first teamfight and an ff@15.
Macro should still be an important factor in deciding games, and scaling champs are there to incentivize people to play for later game objectives rather than just throwing your balls to the wall at level 3 and hoping for the best.
@@ArceusShaymin ill have you know ive fucked giga fed atroxes up as lethalit senna by macro dodging all his Q's
@@ArceusShaymin Playing Battlerite really would be fun, wouldn't it? If only I still could.
"he only falls off in the late game" shows a graph of his wr drastically increasing.
It's like a time limit on your games.
Not really, id be more concerned about a camille/kassadin/vayne rather than a nasus/veigar/senna
"they should have thresholds with their stacks"
*smolder enters the room* *aurelion rework enters through the window*
Just letting you know I have started playing Veigar again with his protobelt build and let me say that infinite scaling doesn't feel like infinite since at some point trying to gain more stacks on Veigar would just be a waste of time since I still oneshot them with my 200 stacks and 4 items
At that point, you only scale so your ult can oneshot the adc by itself
Do you use tear when you go protobelt? I only go protobelt when I go against artillery mages like xerath and when I do, I build tear
I build tank veigar
200 stacks, and 4 items??? I think u are stacking wrong, u should have atleast twice that
I love how no one is talking about kindred. Goes to show why they are placed in the wnop vid 😂😭
She is supposed to scale, but she never did.
@@maxusgamer8515 damn. The burn. Hahaha
This aged so badly XD, belveth and new sol disagree with you so hard :P
Rework for sion : he die slower after death at 100 stacks. At 200 stacks he can push enemies with his E and stun them if push in wall
I don't remember, how well sion getting his stacks, so numbers are random.
Sions stacks generally relate to his cs, so 7/min dould be a good average for him
First of all i gonna say that Nasus doesn't need a rework, i'm the Nasus main myself (250k mastery), i like playing him as he is. I don't good enough to judge anyone or anything (silver for 4 season 😢) but i played him enough to know his huge problem and slowly drifted away from the current meta. He's a single target damage dealer prioritize in split pushing which doesn't viable in the current meta where team fight is more essential. Split pushing doesn't viable in soloQ and in Proplay where every Nasus weakness exploitable so i basically design my ideas for a potential rework on how he should be. I essentially keeping his playstyle all the same which a doggy with a big stick bonk people 😀 hit hard on his early game even more cause the rework is toward late game as infinite scaler
Base health: 620
Bonus health per level: 120
Health regen per 5s: 9
Health regen per level: 1
Base Mana: 375
Mana per level: 70
Mana regen per 5s: 9,5
Mana regen per level: 0,75
Base armor: 40
Armor per level: 4,25
Base AD: 68
AD per lv 3,75
Base MR: 32
MR per level: 1,25
Movement speed: 350
Attack range: 175
Crit damage: 175%
Base AS: 0,635
Bonus AS: 3,25%
Passive: the True Ascendant
Upon reaching levels 9, 13, 16, and 18, Nasus Enchants his abilities reaching it's max potential, gaining additional bonuses.
The soul devourer:
If Siphoning Strike kills its target, Nasus permanently gains soul stack, increased to 4 if its target is a Champion, Large minion, or Large monster, Turret and increased to 6 if its target is Epic monster.
Explanation: i switch around his stacking on his Q to the passive and gave him old lifesteal passive on his Q. I think this new passive gonna impact Nasus entire kits rather than just more damage from Q making him scale more into the late game than the actual mid game then falloff late game just being infinite scaler.
Q: Siphoning Strike
Cast time: None
Cost: 25 Mana
CD: 7.5 / 6.75 / 5 / 4.25 / 3.5
Active: Nasus' next basic attack within 10 seconds has an uncancelable windup, gains 25 Range, deals bonus physical damage and heal him for 4 / 8 / 12 / 16 / 20% pre-migitation damage dealt (+0,1 per 3 soul ) heal of minions are reduced by 35%
Bonus Physical Damage:
35 / 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 (+3 per soul )
Reset Nasus basic attack timer
Apply on-hit
If this attack kills the target, half of the mana cost is refunded
Q ( Enhance): Soul shattering
Effect radius: 275
Nasus Siphoning Strike now deal 50% of Siphoning Strike bonus damage (+ 120% total AD)(+50% AP) to all nearby enemies as physical damage. If the target is beyond his normal basic attack range, Nasus leaps to the target's location within 350 range.
Nasus can cast Soul shattering while being rooted or grounded but cannot leap.
Explanation: 2 of Nasus biggest problem in my opinion were wave clear and lack of mobility so i kinda had some ideas to gave him a small aoe on his Q kinda like Galio passive. But you can decide if you want stacks more or wave clear cause the aoe gonna mess up his stacking efficiency so you can decide to enhance it or not. The leap i added to the empower version i think kinda niche but effective kinda like illaoi W leap. I also added AP ratio so Nasus actually use his Q if he went AP build :D
W: Wither
Target range: 725
Cast time: 0,1s
Cost: 85 Mana
CD: 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 10
Nasus aged the target enemy champion for 5 / 5.25 / 5.5 / 5.75 / 6 seconds, slowing them by 35 / 50 / 65 / 80 / 95% and crippling them by half that amount 17.5 / 25 / 32.5 / 40 / 42.5% instantly. If target within the flame (Nasus E) are withered, the tenacity reduction is double and they are grounded.
Nasus can target enemy turret to reduce its attack speed by 12 / 24 / 36 / 48 / 60% and turret shot speed by 6 / 12 / 18 / 24 / 30%
W ( Enhance): Decaying spirit
Nasus summons locusts that chases after and reveals the withered enemy 65-150 (+ 7.5% AP) (+ 4% target's maximum health)(+0.5% per 25 souls) total magic damage and increase all their current cooldown by 3s. Total 6 swarm of locusts are summoned. Enemies that pass through the locusts for the first time from the same cast are wither for half the amount of the primary target ( slow, cripple and duration are 50% less than primary target) kinda like Rell E
Explanation: i think that combo with E and W which makes enemy grounded actually makes Nasus gets a chance to chase down high mobility champs like Riven, Vayne. The idea which makes Nasus has a point & click root actually too op and doesn't make sense so i came up with this. The empower W is a niche aspect for AP Nasus more viable and the aoe slow is kinda a nice part for Nasus cause chaos in team fight. The locusts and stuff i think really interesting fit in his Anubis theme
E (Spirit flame)
Target range: 725
Effect radius: 425
Cast time: 0,25s
Cost: 70 / 90 / 110 / 130 / 150 Mana
CD: 15s (-0,5s per 50 AP, capped at 10s reduction at 1000 AP)
Nasus erupts a vengeful spirit flame at the target location, granted sight within the flame for 5s dealing magic damage to all enemies within the area. The flame then remains lingering for 5 seconds, dealing magic damage every 0.5 seconds to all enemies within the area and reduce their tenacity while they are inside.
Magic damage:
60/ 105 / 145 / 185 / 225 (+60% AP)
Damage over time:
15 / 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 (+ 20% AP) (+ 3% target's missing health)
Tenacity reduction:
5 / 10 / 15 / 20 / 25%
(Enhance) Divine inferno
Increasing target range: 750
Increasing effect radius: 475
Reduce all healing and shielding enemies received by 40%
His first cast now disrupts enemies ongoing channel spell.
Nasus can select a turret ruins and spends double the mana cost to cast divine inferno above the ruins after a 0.75-second cast time.
Divine inferno remains for 12s and functions the same as a standard but will deal no damage.
Divine inferno ruins effect radius: 2000
Nasus and his allies gain bonus Movement speed upon stepping on the field. Enemies, in turn, are slowed for the same amount, decaying over 2 seconds after leaving the field.
Movement Speed Modifier:
10 / 17.5 / 25 / 32.5 / 40%
Explanation: New champions within a few years in my opinion are overloaded with healing shielding and dashes ( Ex: Yone with 3 fucking dashes, fat load of healing when building shieldbow, BT, shielding from his W) so i think gave him something like free anti healing and shielding effects (i call it reversed spirit visage) would makes Nasus much much stronger cause he wouldn't buy something like serpent fang so he gets fuck up and struggle so bad against with something like Sett and Moderkaiser the healing reduction doesn't count as grievous wound so he gets a chance to compete with the beefy juggernaut with ton of healing renekton aatrox in exchange for loosing the armor reduction
The disrupt part i actually added because i hated that i got blame for not stopping a Shen ult or Karthus cause i'm Nasus without any CC and dont kill em fast enough ;-; Anyway i think that the enhance version that build a huge turret size E that slow enemies and buff allies makes him more signicantly impactful for teamfight than only spit push 😀 Also it makes him more likely a tactical strategist that he should be, really missed out in his lore that Riot fail to replicated to his gameplay. P/s i make AP Nasus OP btw if you haven't noticed already XD
R (Fury of the Sands):
Effect radius: 425
Cast time: 0,1s
Cost: 100 / 125 / 150 Mana
CD: 160 / 140 / 120s
Passive: Reduces the cooldown of Siphoning Strike (Soul shattering) by 15 / 40 / 65% , applying before ability haste.
Active: Nasus unleashes his Ascendant form for 15s gaining bonus health and resistances. Nasus loses the passive bonus but increases 40% (+6% per 100 souls, max 500 souls) in size, grants 50 (+5 per 100 souls max 500 souls) bonus range and 200 (+10 per 100 souls max 1000 souls) cast range while active. Also your basic abilities ( Q, W, E) are lower by half
Bonus health: 250 / 500 / 750
Bonus resistances: 50 / 65 / 80
(Enhance) Fury of the Ascendant: Upon transforming Nasus knocking down all nearby enemies disrupts their movement and cancels their dash for 0,5s. Nasus summons a sandstorm around him, increasing his tenacity by 25% . Enemies caught in the sand storm are slowed by 10% and nearsighted ( Enemies sight radius are reduce to 300 range)
Scoring a takedown against an enemy champion extends Fury of the Ascendant's duration by 5 seconds, refreshing its effects, up to the original amount and restore 12% of your missing Health & Mana.
Explanation: The idea of this R is to turn him into a True Raidboss which cause chaos in teamfight and hunt down enemies and drawn aggro rather than ignores and kites him where a 6 items Vayne 3-shot him. Turn his late game into a relentless Titan frontline soaks up all the damage and deals significantly high damage till he went down for his extremely weak early game. The DoT magic damage on his R doesn't make sense and barely makes any difference so i remove it completely instead the idea for a sandstorm around him to reduce sight and slow down them would be interesting :D
Final conclusion: The idea for this rework to give Nasus more teamfight potential, dualing rather than sticking to the sidelane and constantly split pushing and stacking till the Nexus explode. I myself don't confident enough to certain make Nasus a viable Meta in this fast tempo of game these days but i'm sure that this rework gonna makes Nasus more popular and makes him more skill expression enough for players take interest in him. Some of Nasus skills design could end up overloaded but i just wanna point out anything that can makes Nasus more interest for other players. Obviously some of the number can be tweaked around to make him more balance. If you've read all of this then thank you very much for spending your time here :> sorry for the obsequious English 😕 not my first language ;-; Vietnamese btw
If you're reading this Vars i just wanted you to know that i'm loving all your Series and i hope that you'll make series where you came up with possible rework for league champions would be interesting or takes fan ideas like mine for discussion 😃 anyway greatwork my dude
Draven technically also has an infinitely scaling ability. I know it's arguably not as inpactful as these ones mentioned but I thought it was worth noting.
Well yes, but actually no
He may obtain infinite gold but gold has a finite relevancy thus finite scaling
@@V2ULTRAKill But rune "future market" was considered as "infnitely scaling", so...
"And thankfully, there's no champion in league who's entire gameplay infinitely scales, if they did, that would be completely broken"
ASol: *Smug cosmic dragon noises*
Bel'veth*
Kindred also gets additional additional 75 AA range at 3 stacks and infinitely 25 AA range each 4 marks after that.4:40
No, the range is capped at 250 extra range.
[My Veigar OTP ass coming down from the heavens with 1300 AP with nothing but tank items ready to one shot a bitch]:
_Scaling is what now?_
god, one day I wanna try that and do well, every time I try it, I get blasted
@@d4s0n282 I've played veigar in every lane, every role, all types of builds, and I have both kicked ass and got my ass kicked, it always depends on what the enemy team picks and if they play it smart
If I could rework one infinite scaler (Swain, I love him in the midlane), at 150 stacks (which is a mid to late game), Riot could give him +30 armor and magic res during his ultimate (many would disagree cause Swain is already pretty strong and his ults heals himself, but that would be cool)
Morgana's Q lasting 5 seconds when maxed would be cool too, wouldn't it?
Infinite scaling is one of those things that sounds really cool on paper and has a definite power fantasy attached to it, which I think is why Riot was attracted to the mechanic... But its also a balancing nightmare, especially when that scaling directly contributes to damage...
I was gonna go on a huge rant comparing infinitely scaling champions like Sion, Nasus & Veigar to Heroes from DotA like Slark, Pudge & Anti-mage but there's so many interconnected micro-factors that play into how strong or weak the mechanic even is, which really just reinforces the main point.
ITS A BALANCING *NIGHTMARE*
Getting that extra hp from throwing jump scares at the enemy Caitlyn under her turret as Swain is undeniably fun
Vladimir can technically also infinitely scale exclusively because his passive is an infinite recursion stat, if he has a way to increase HP or AP past normal 6 item thresholds, he can scale infinitely that way. Although, it's stupid because it'd require like, Grasp, Heartsteel, Gathering Storm, Overgrowth, Demonic Embrace and a game to just go on forever to gain the most use out of his passive, of course Gathering and Overgrowth alone would work too but that's not as funny, so it'd be like the dumbest kind of infinite scaling but definitely not not infinite scaling, just reaaaallly bad and never practical.
I honestly kinda like that there are still champs that thrive when the game takes almost an hour in this assasin/fighter meta where everything has 100 dashes and oneshots everything. Not many games actually last that long but boy when they do... I also really like the way they "scale" the better you are at the champion the better stats you have without necessarily it being REALLY hard, it sort of reminds me of shooters where you can always improve and oh boy is it satysfying to improve.
I disagree with the durability point - sure Nasus' q doesn't make him tankier directly, but he can build full tank/haste because he gets the q dmg for free (if he's farming properly). Ergo, the ability enables Nasus' durability much more than other fighters.
Kind of like how Gangplank works is great. Nasus was always more of a midgame champion, it would be nice if Riot recognized this and gave him a proper midgame powerspike.
the truly best lategame scaling is enemy %maxHP truedamage. like vayne and fiora. one might add camille cuz her Q2 deals basically 100% maxHP to squishies
these youtubers are so bad, always making videos to get rid of features that make the game fun, he probably works for riot, riot new employee generation full of bad ideas. Yes lets give Nasus a Threashold and delete his infinite scaling and make him more like less played characters gangplank until the game sucks even more from the new changes. The sad part is your actually getting paid to say this terrible things.
"A champion where the whole kit is infinite scaling would be broken"
Aurelion Sol rework : "you goddamn right"
"And thankfully there is no champion in league whose entire gameplay infinitely scales" New asol came out, point not valid no more
TFW the 100 grasp procs nasus with 600 stacks and sunderer heals to full HP in one Q. Priceless. Priceless
The Only broken infinite scaling is Veigars AP stacks. His ultimate becomes a point and click nuke .
No champions entire kit is based around infinite scaling....
Veigar: Is that a short joke?!?