Evolving Champions: The Better "Infinite" Scaling? | League of Legends
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Today's video talks about Evolution in League of Legends! It's a form of internal scaling just like Infinite Scaling but instead of gradual increase of stats, evolvers have thresholds that upon reached, provide a new set of features or a drastic increase in power! I wanted to bring up the design challenges, but also benefits of evolving champions!
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#LoL #Evolution #Champion
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I wish every champ who evolves would get a physical change like Kha’zix
If we count kayle as evolving champion then she is changing physically
gangplank just gets a new cannon or smth
I mean kayn becomes another entity
Yup i play wild rift and when khazix came out i thought it was so cool seeing him evolve and then i played Kaisa and ... Nothing changed
The reason is because Riot has a hard time making skins like Kayle because it requires 3 different forms similar to Udyr.
The champions with internal scaling?
I mean if they want to make Veigar's abilities evolve, I'd be all for his E getting something like Rell's ult mechanic where it tries to pull you into it a bit, would be pretty fitting since the ability is named after part of a black hole. They already have it where every 50 stacks he gets 10% multiplicative CDR on his W, make Q get more possible unit hits every 75-100 stacks so late game his Q can hit the whole enemy team if you position well or combo well with either your own CC or the CC of a teammate. Could also ramp up his scaling a bit by allowing him to push waves a bit faster while still maintaining proper stacking since the dream of late game Veigar gets pretty lost in the back to back to back 15 minute FFs.
the jhin at 11:44 lmao
"But there are a few in the game who come with their own thresholds, powerspikes if you will. Upon reaching those thresholds, their strength can increase by a large magnitude outside of the scope of items or runes"
*Me as a yasuo main* :
0/10 POWERSPIKING
What I like about Heroes of the Storm, is its talents system. Instead of ability levels or items, you get talents, each changing abilities in a meaningful way. Basically, every Hero in the game is an "Evolution Champion". It feels great. Too bad that game is basically dead now, it deserved better. I guess it's what happens when you enter the territory where such giants as Dota and LoL already exist.
I played and loved that, I just forgot why I stopped, maybe was the ping and getting currency to buy heroes was extremely few and far in between + hard.
I love Hearthstone and Hots, it's probably the games I would play if it weren't for their terrible F2P economy that's basically need to be P2W or no-life 23/7 on average.
Finally someone says that kha is well designed honestly I agree i find kindred so boring but there is something so good about beeing able to adapt to the enemy team with items and ur champs kit that makes kha so gud and well made
Urgot LvL 9 grant him infinite Z, and it's a giant power spike, i think we could count it in evolution.
plot twist: in dota2 every champ has evolutions
U missed Evelyn. She goes invisible at 6 which is an evolution
4:13, im confused here, does rengar on the enemy team allow all four evolutions on kha?
If rengar has a max bonetooth necklace and Khazix has 3 evolution points a special quest occurs to have rengar and Khazix fight. If rengar kills kha then he gets a 6th bonetooth and a ton of extra AD and a buff that says "victory". If Khazix wins then he is allowed a 4th point of evolution allowing him to have a fully maxed kit and a buff that says "victory".
@@NBSF41917 that's sick
Would evelynn count as a evolving champion with her passive making her invisible at lvl 6?
evolution isnt a bad mechanic but i dont think nasus or veigar necessarily need reworks
Viktor feels great, because bassically every upgradr is a power spike, and since its not related strightly to your level, but your CS/kills/assists it makes it feel a lot more dinamic than say, Kayle.
same with kaisa
Tbh, I would take the old Kayle over the new one any day. IMO
But the fun ends when riot decides rhat mages shall do triple the work for the same outcome thanks to the item
@@lokksiders__2151 old Kayle was atrocious
@@lokksiders__2151 never played old kayle. Her artworks seem alright tho. Although one of theme is borderline a copyright infringement
You forgot elementalist lux, she get's invisible spells in river if she evolves into water element.
Really? I have the skin but never tried it so sorry for asking...
@@Astrophilicus I feel like he’s just joking lol
@@KaseyUncle69 no
@@KaseyUncle69 not 100% invisible but it’s very hard to see e in the river if you don’t see her throw it out
Playing against Nidalee with dawnbringer or galaxy skin on aram is just simply living hell
My favorite mechanic. It feels like i am actually leveling up my champ.
I like how as evolutions Kha'zix a soon to be 10 years old champion can grow wings and stuff will Kai'sa just stop for a few sec to moan and get no model changes at all...
A lot of dev time was put into the moaning, and heavy breathing after E to think about model changes
i mean she's a human
@@user-fv1lc2qm3e Her armor isn't.
@@DusKnight7th would you rather see the armor evolve?
@@user-fv1lc2qm3e the superhero like suit is a living being.
I like that evolution champions can vary in playstyle while still keeping their identity and core gameplay. it really makes you feel like you're not just playing the same champion over and over again
That's only true for Kha, Kaisa and Vik dodn't change at all.
Wym it's true for kayn too
@@modarhariri3929 someone has never played Kayle
@@modarhariri3929 full ap Kaisa sniping is incredibly fun tho
@@quinn.iamdefinitelycisgend2542 Indeed it's super fun, but as a diamond Kaisa main (an old otp) ap is not viable at all, she is barely playable with her best build. So ur forced to go the same build path every game.
I think the Ch'goth rework should make him an evolver.
Have him be a skirmisher early and shift to a tank after he grows & and gets enough stacks. Maybe even 3 total sizes.
Things like his Q is faster early, but bigger after the evolution. Maybe even shorter range.
I quite like cho'gath as he is now, but that's a real interesting idea
Would you consider evelynn evolves when she reachs lvl 6? She gains a new property that changes a lot how she's played, compared with her visible version
I think she basically becames a champion...pre 6 evelynn is weak
@@SmallPotato2313 level 1 evelynn is great
@@grrumakemeangry maybe against unthinking camps lmao
@@grrumakemeangry True she can proc electrocute easily with q lvl 1.
@@grrumakemeangry against who?
Main reason why i fell in love with kha'zix (still main him) is his evolution mechanics which helps him to be a highly versatile champion! While at the same time he still maintains his "CORE" identity which is a speedy stealthy melee assassin. This evolution mechanics that kha'zix has allows him to be not only versatile but also viable throughout time of league of legends without making kha'zix too weak or overpowered. On top of this allows people to experiment with different items and builds.
Really want to hear 👂 this video opinion on kha'zix 😁
it also requires a high knowledge of which ability is better to evolve against the specific enemy team comp
10:44 the ultimate betrayal! Poor Gwen 😢
The graves went back in too thats the worse part, her sacrifice was pointless
Viktor should be at the center of the thumbnail
Truers
GLORIOUS
From the weakness of the teammates, Omnissiah save us
From the lies of the streamers, circuit perserve us
From the rage of the Tyler, iron protect us
From the temptations of the scripts, silica cleanse us
From the ravages of the feeding, anima shield us
From this rotting cages of health pool, Machine God set us free.
Found the Viktor player
Personally i agree with most the everything mentioned here. all except for the reworking of all infinite scaling. this is because infinite scaling puts a timer on the game, forcing people to close out games. for an example recently i've been picking up Zed and i lost a game where i was pretty fed. as a result i am focusing on how to close out games and so i have improved a lot. if to be fair it isn't only infinite scalers that put timers on games. still i think infinite scaling healthy for the game.
Your comment cuts out halfway through.
"Essence is change, change is survival, collect and live, stay still and die"
- Dehaka from Starcraft II
All things are not equal. When there is good, there is bad. This is also the same to champions which makes the evolution/upgrade ability a double-edged sword. "You may solved a problem, yet there may another one to be faced"
Interesting how he's not an evolving hero in HotS. That honour goes to heroes like Kel'thuzad, Jaina and Varian.
The fact that u only play as Dehaka once in heart of the swarm left me depressed.
8:00 Yeah, there is little difference between 500 and 600 Nasus - but there is a huge one between 150 and 600 ones. Basically, Nasus gets a "powerspike" when he has to do 1 less Q to kill your team member.
Yeah but enemies can also increase MS, durability, etc. So it's not as clear.
Evolving is more interesting when you can't evolve them all, imo, and when the order of evolution is more situational than an obvious optimal order. So, I do like how Kha'zix sounds and will try him out.
Easiest analogy is evolving champs are toggle switches while scaling champs are knobs/rotary switch
Anybody upset he didn’t hold the R for PARRRLEY
Gangplank has a second evolution not mentioned here, which is his barrel tick rate. When he reaches level 7 and 13 his barrel decay rate decreases (barrels die faster). This is the evolution that matters the most for GP as it allows him to go toe to toe with bruisers.
wouldn't that be an increase in decay rate? because they decay faster?
@@marsa9828 yeah u right,
GP: Haha, barrels ignore DEF while dealing tons of damage go brr
Still same mechanic
@@sibericusthefrosty9950 People with flash, a minimal ms speed or a dash cant be hit if they play right.
Perfectly designed nami when?
Nier music in the backgroud is pretty cool ngl
Found the comment, take a like
A while back dota2 came out with a talent system that basically gave every hero evolutions. What l loved about them was that some of them give abilities that encourage you to play them in ways you don’t expect. For instance crystal maiden is a support that specializes in cc and aoe dmg, but one of her talents actually give her insane attack speed. So you can build carry items in the late game and auto attack the hell out of the enemy team. It was such a fun design
This system actually came from Heroes of the Storm, where Talents are the primary way of character scaling, fully replacing ability levels and items. You gain one of 3-4 talents at lvl 1 and then every 3rd level, except at 10th where you choose your ult (1 out of two per character, which is a great thing on its own). And I really like that. It makes the game much more team-based and beginner-friendly while keeping
I don't think infinite scaling is inherently bad; it's fun to have that micro objective in lane and the comeback possibility if you can survive a large early deficit. I think both evolution and infinite scaling are interesting and should be used in new champions.
As a Kha'zix main I am very pleased that you are using the word "evolution." Just brings a smile to my face. The purple theme to match Kha on the thumbnail also, it's glorious. I don't care if you roast the shit out of my favorite buggy boi for being overloaded or too adaptive or lacking counterplay, his design is so fucking sexy I just can't. The edgy vibes of his passive and ult, the combination of athleticism and dexterity in his E-Q, the ability to snipe with a precise W, he's so amazing and rewarding to play.
--> Kha'zix
--> Sexy
@@distraction2803 don't kinkshame
@@distraction2803 I should've specified that his *gameplay* design is sexy, referencing his QWER and passives. His visual design is hot too but that's obviously not what I was talking about, I mean who would publicly admit to such cringe opinions, definitely not me
nah anyome who thinks kha is overloaded needs to stop with the meth. He was wayyy more op in older seasons. talking about back when his ult would give him damage reduction when stealth (evolved) currently kha is way weaker than he was. yet riot gonna nerf him again. trash company.
@@konstandinosverzamanis5699 Kha'zix is indeed overloaded but in a good and reasonable way.
Unlike Akshan who has 5 passives for no fkin reason.
I don't play kayle that much but it's soo satisfying to reach lvl 11 and start 1shotting people and clearing waves like a mad man
How
I never saw a usefull kayle once.
Even if she is ultra fed i can nearly one shit her even as full tank Sion and beeing 0/5.
If she is engaged once she is dead. A vayne or any other Adc with the same stats are far more usefull.
You are only more useful if you are able to attack multiple enemies but even then there are way way more useful Top Champs doing the exact same Job better.
@@user-ko4zp1wm2i Ranged top with built in aoe attacks, a slow with armor reduction, a heal with a speed boost and another Aoe auto attack reset. + Built in zhonias as an ult.
Then you take into account that she is a gatling gun of auto attacks. Then with riftmaker into account it all comes togheter.
@@lok4890 She still doesnt deal a lot of dmg. If you jump behind, beside her she has to attaxl that enemie. Aoe is then useless
A full build kayle deals about 200-350dmg per auto in every Video i watched to look at her. That "mobility" is nothing compared to others.
I believe Kayle is the mpst overrated carry in League. If she is something she is a Assistant dmg dealer and utility supporter. Her ability to support an ADC is mostly more effective then her dmg herself.
I mean there are very rare moments which she is very good in but the enemie has to be plain ***** to make that happen.
If the enemie has point and click cc/a slow or something like that you are out of the game.
@@user-ko4zp1wm2i She most likely cant 1v9 games, but as of now, no character can do that besides yone.
Also you are essentially ignoring the fact that kayle is a team fighter, she doesnt just mordekaiser her way to the enemy nexus. As long as she has team mates to support her, she can just melt through enemies.
Also, you cant really call her overrated when she has been sitting at 50% for over 10 patched now, and her win rate by time is almost 60% by the 35 to 40 minutes mark.
@@lok4890 That just prooved my whole point.
Hyper Carrys that are full itembuild and lvl 18 should have more then 60%
A Jinx alone is far more superior as Kayle
Are we going to ignore the Nier:Automata OST that runs on the background? Bless that game
Kai’sa evolution kinda annoys me, because unless you do a weird build you can’t evolve W. (Kai’sa is pretty weak in solo queue at the moment, perhaps making W evolution easier would be a good buff)
Isn't kraken>wit's end>nashers suppose to be the build for her rn? It was like this last season. Kai is weak until people find out how to get her evolutions in 3 items
@@Ritsuemaru Most people build Kraken Collector and IE or Phantom Dancer. Building wits end and nashors just for evolutions isn’t worth it.
10:58 as i kaisa main i like her cuz her damg and all of her damage are coming from her q evolving and pass so ya so true
Some of the infinite scaling can be wonky but I do like Veigar. I think he strikes the balance of gaining massive power but still being killable
Correction at 6:00 viktor's ult upgrade makes the ult move faster not him.
Also you don't actually augment the ult, it is automatically augmented after you augment basic abilities
Evolution is better, Dota 1 has it for decades and the concept never ceased, infact they even expanded from it via Talent Trees in Dota 2
Also, why evolution is better is because champs with infinite scaling will be compensated with bad early~midgame than your average non-infinite scaling champ.
Tho I say those, I love these champs in URF with my specific kind of mindset/playstyle
Great video Vars ♡ but the Kai'sa in the beginning auto-ing a minion while fighting Sett had me scared for a second
I thought that i was the only one that saw this aa
Evolution champs are better than infinite scalers in every way, infinite scalers are a pain in the ass to play around on long games, and sometimes stack champions are plain out useless if they fall really behind, evolution champs, are rewarding the one who plays them by constantly improving as tge game progresses, to the enemy team os also easier to play around becaise said spikes those champions have, are easier to do macro and micro game because pf that, and even in late game ,on long games i mean, yoi font have to worry about a kaisa having 500 farm as much as you have to worry about a nasis or a veigar.
Besides, the evolution mechanics are really cool
You forgot to speak about Garen. He evolves at lvl 6 to a sustain bruiser to true damage sword summoner from the sky into a small sad adc
Wait, Veigar would totally benefit from threshold scaling instead of infinite. With a few kit tweaks (and a VU he desperately needs) they could incorporate the Mech he gets in Runeterra after he meets enough thresholds.
The problem then becomes that Veigar would just be a Rumble clone
Eh
I prefer infinite,infinite AP is cool
@@fitmotheyap xd
@@spicytunah8043 would he tho their playstyles would be different
@@fitmotheyap why not both at a certain amount of stacks (not ap but stacks) he gets extra hp when atttacking a enemy champ and at another treshold he gets a mech which boost his abilities and he loses the mech if he loses to much hp
Exellent video as always ! I just wondered why Urgot isn't is this list of evolutive champions ? his W becoming a toggle by rank 5 is a pretty big change on how we play the character in my opinion... i know it's not as big in his kit than the others being only 1 basic ability, but i think it should count anyway :D and also pls continue your videos they're really interesting :)
Because its not really an evolution when u compare it to others
"if players don't like it players won't play it"....isn't this a league of legends video
No evelynn? She is an evolver. She doesn't become a champion until she gets 6 and can become invisible
You forgot the strongest evolution.
0/9 yas evolving into 0/10 yas
Sion evolving sounds kinda fun. But rather than changing his abilities I'd rather have some cool or interesting passives... Buuuut that might just be because he's my main.
if you have more than 500hp from w, you gain additional .1 ar and mr for each stack
Veigar is technically an evolution champ as he gets cdr on his W, everytime he gets a certain number of phenomenal evil stacks. It's only really something that can be felt very late into the game when veigar has a lot of stacks.
I mean, he also discounted Sona which works similar to that, wherein she gains cdr for her ult with her stacks.
Gaining cdr doesn't evolve your abilities.
Note that in every evolve champ there is one extra feature in their abilities.
Kaisa has more missiles, invisibility, and reduced cd when she lands her w
Kha has increased rage and dmg on q, slow and larger range on w, reset on jump + larger range. And 3 usage of r etc
I don't think evolution it bad but i wouldn't put it on every infinite scaler. Also looking at this video i was thinking what if ryze had a similar mechanic to kaisa keep his passive as ap grants mana and abilities scale with mana. But lock his q w e behind stats he build I.E. 100 ap gives Q movement speed, 1000 mana grants W root and, 50 ability haste makes E bounce to other targets. Of course these are just throw away numbers but i think it might allow him to have a larger player base without removing whats already in his kit. Plus i feel like it would be easier to balance then giving him all these tools at once while making him super weak.
I am expecting some mentions to my gurl kayle
Aurelion Sol has evolutions, which, even though it only happens at lv 19 and 20 (urf exclusive), he still gets an extra star for each of those level ups.
Because hs is useless
Can you make a video on buff ults (nasus renekton singed mundo olaf volibear kinda)
Automata BGM for evolution video is perfect
I like Kayns evolutions in the fact that he does feel super weak until you get a form. Makes it feel super impactful.
I like Evolution for he reasons you pretty much explained, that said i don't think they should just rework all infinite scalers. Evolution is a fun mechanic but not a band aid super solution to just slap on a champ. There are people out there, and i count myself as one of them who really enjoy the inifinte scaling mechanic. In my case i just love nuking people to smitherens with veigar after having way over 1000 ap. Thats fun.
i like the nier forest kingdom music in bg
For me personal is beter i finity scale
The main question you asked, is evolution a better design than linear scaling, and I'd agree that yes it is. Veigar and Nasus are archaic champions, their scaling while infinite, is linear, uninteresting, and just provides extra stats. Either its enough stats to win, or it is not. It creates a black and white playstyle where the enemies either can feed off of a weak Nasus like free gold over and over again, or, it takes a team of 5 people to stop a Nasus from bulldozing his way through every structure and back-dooring the Nexus with no counter-play.
It's like you reached an "enrage timer" in Final Fantasy 14, meaning you didn't win on time so the Boss just kills you. That's not fun for anyone involved - except the Boss who finally got to enjoy his enrage mechanic.
But evolution is a more interactive way to scale. First its more controlled so it is more likely to be balanced. Second it's more fun, so players feel they can adapt to a game and interact differently and different interactions and adaptions automatically lend to more player enjoyment. It adds new ways to play or at least improved game play in a creative way.
If and when Nasus and Veigar are reworked to be brought up to modern game visuals, it would be appropriate to give them evolutionary abilities. So they're allowed to actually have dynamic gameplay. Sure maybe a Nasus main would complain that the dynamic gameplay is one-shotting towers with sheen + 1000 stacks but is it really that fun to spend 90% of your collective games just farming for that infinite number?
I feel like infinite scalers need to exist in the game. They don't even need to be meta or good, they can be an overall subpar choice, but they should exist to help teach new players power spikes and how to focus on farm. They almost all have simple kits, so it's easy for new players to pick them up too.
Newer players don't understand how good Farming really is because kills are more flashy and rewarding upfront. But scalers like nasus, Viegar, Sion, Chogath, and thresh show players through raw stats how much more powerful they are getting while farming compared to someone like jinx, who gets just as strong if not stronger with farm, but you don't see it upfront.
This also teaches newer players when too fight and more importantly when to stay back. Alot new players start fights they can't win, but scaling champs give easy to understand times of strength and weakness. Sub 200 stack nasus weak, +200 stack nasus strong, +400 stack nasus SUPER strong.
I disagree with the nasus example. It is so intensely satisfying when you go the first 6 levels doing jack diddly damage, but after you farm well get to around 200 stacks, grab sheen and go back to lane. The first time you go all in and absolutely wreck the guy who has been bullying you for the last 7-8 minutes feels so good.
I think that infinite scaling has a place, mainly as a supplement to allow for "early game" champions to have a late game.
If you're playing for early pressure, you should be less devastating in the late game. It just makes sense to me that you wouldn't get much for going late other than better stats
kindred has her own issues with the evolution or scaling system bc as a marksmen she doesn't have access to the same lv of gold income that she needs. Unlike senna who has a relatively low risk and low investment way to scale outside of CS, Kindred can ONLY scale pretty much with kills, but the issue is that she relies on her abilities which scale OFF her marks rather than with just AD, so she's in a chicken/egg situtation
i agree with almost every point you made until one major disagreement :
*changing all infinite scalers to internal scaler or evolving*
that would take away their magic. so long they've been like this, it's become part of them.
despite that difference of opinion, i consider this video another one of your great quality content and for that i thank you. keep up the good work. wish you well.
make all infinite scalers like bard
purposfully for got eve ?
Have you ever thought of making your own champion
With every thing you sayed what would be a good champion
Honestly I watched this video just because of the Nier Automata goodness in the background.
Dark Star Zhazix evolution is the most beautiful Ive seen, I dont evolve w for damage but instead the ult because he gets that gorgeous dark purple blue. The fact this skin is only an epic tier is an outrage, it deserves so much more love
Does Evelynn and Fiddlesticks qualify? They each gain an additional passive effect at level 6 - Evelynn's granting her access to stealth, and Fiddlesticks granting him the ability to deny vision.
But I think this video encapsulates why I prefer Heroes of the Storm's Talent system to League of Legend's Skill Point/Item system, and why game modes like Odyssey was so fun. It's much more satisfying having your power spikes actually affect how you can approach the game, rather than just waiting for the point that you're threatening (or stop being threatening). Items can hit this in specific cases, but in most cases they're just amplifiers. (I'm aware Odyssey isn't in-game choices, but in a PVE environment where your end-goal spans across multiple matches - it's just a bit more Rogue-like.)
It is worth noting that Veigar does have a Bard-style progression with his W's cooldown being reduced by collecting stacks - every 50, I think.
In general, I think all champions would benefit from evolutions. You made a token comment to Darius and similar effects - it is fun to have a powerspike other than your level 6. I think leaning more into HOTS/Kayn/Kha'Zix and having more mutually exclusive choices would be better going from game-to-game, too. Just because I've got Veigar on the brain, imagine if he had the choices for (a) Q hits 1 (+Stack scaling) additional targets, (b) Event Horizon collapses to X radius (inverse Stack scaling) over the duration and (c) his ultimate deals X% (+Stacks) splash damage!
Does evelynn count as an evolution? She gets camo after lvl 6
i've been playing for a little over two years now and as someone who's FIRST champion ever was kha'zix, i think evolutions are a really good way to incentivize new players to want to play and learn the game. kha'zix has such a perfect way of drawing in someone who is starting off playing jungle, as it directly makes the player express their skills the moment they hit six and figure out what playstyle they enjoy through choosing an evolution. it helped me differentiate my style from how other players played, which i love. whatever reason you have for choosing whichever evolution is based purely on who is playing him. i know a lot of people start by evolving Q because of the increased range and crazy good early game damage that can easily take out squishy champions. evolving W is my favorite to evolve first because of the aoe and the slow making early ganks far way easier, but i know some people who like to evolve E for the resets or R to counter enemy champs. i just love kha'zix as a champion, even though i don't play him as much anymore, and evolves are by far my favorite gimmick in league (no wonder i loved viktor the moment i picked him up)
Infinite scaling must be in the game soo the player need too learn too not leave a Nasus take 500 Stak and 3 shot all tower in top lain,
Too not let Veigar reach min 30 of free stucking under tower but tring diveing him.
Make your path jungle more efficent soo Kindred don't steal all your farm while become extreamly powerfull with time.
Probably Evolution is more healthy for the game becouse I don't want getting stuck in my lain or I'll lose the lain and get overscaled by the enemy.
But I think everything need too be in the game soo it will resault more heterogeneous and diverse.
And please Riot just goo full crazy (pls NEVER do it) with one of the next champ and create a fusion between Shapeshifters and Evolution champ.
The reason I personally love to play Kaisa is the fantasy of zipping around the battlefield and dishing out attacks and skills.
Then again, she is one of the slowest champs out there... Go figure. The evolutions are a nice bonus though.
I built her at first with Phase Rush, Speedy Boots and anything I could get my hands on with speed. Then I realises Yi's run me down and kind of anyone who builds a moderate amount of speed AND damage to boot.
Evolutions are just tools. Not a fantasy.
Honestly, controversial opinion here, but as someone who mained Kayle before the rework and somewhat up until now, I guess what I have to say is kinda relevant?
I agree true damage waves that can crit at 16 was kinda bonkers, and having that 50 extra range instead goes a long way without being outright busted. But getting ranged form at 6 and waves at eleven felt *bad*. So much of Kayle's power is locked behind those waves. It was like the lvl 1 cheese we current have, since her lvl 6 damage spike was so humongous. Not only that, but much else changed for the best. If you position correctly you could use minions to poke with the waves, you still had Q and E to somewhat control things from afar (although still pretty limited by early Kayle power), and the E splash damage coming at lvl 6 made her so much stronger at skirmishes than being ranged will ever do. She had a way more balanced scaling curve and provided even more to her team even earlier. I honestly can't understand why they changed that, and it feels bad to this day to hit 6 and still swing your sword like a wet noodle, only a wet noodle with slightly higher reach.
IMO an infinite scaling champ like Nasus should have his base dmg increased a bit but then take out something else of his kit, for example: make his Q base dmg +20 at all level, but remove a bit of his lifesteal from passive, so he can actually trade early, but stops him from having infinite sustain in lane, making him actually killable and interactive, rather than healing through any dmg he gets by ignoring you and farming minions 24/7
Does Evelynn count as an Evolver ? I would argue that her playstyle pre-6 is vastly different than post-6 and she really gets a second passive (other than her passive regen) which makes her a whole entire new champions. Or am I wrong because she does not really have the "choice" to get it ? In this case, neither would be Kayle since the power-up comes, no matter if you want it or not.
The thing I don’t really like about evolving passives, in a way the champion doesn’t really have a passive. Syndra has no passive until mid game. While i like kha’zix, other evolving passives could have not been there and the ability could do that from the start minus kai’sa e.
i disagree actually. do evolutions feel good to play with ? sure , but in the end they are waaaay more unfair. you can always see a nasus or a veigar getting stronger , and the way you counter them is pretty obvious. Evolution spikes are way more insidious , and the power they get from evolutions tends to be pretty damn big. that's why kaisa has been like one of the best adcs in the game for like 2 years : her 1 item spike was unrivled.
and the thing is....if evolutions aren't impactfull.....why make them. but if they are that impactfull , they feel really shit to play vs. I for one don't like massive leaps in strenght for a champion at certain level/items breaktroughs or ability level. That kind of design feels nice to play as , but terrible to vs imo.
at least infinite scalers have a constant increase in power and their spikes aren't that insane. Dunno...it just felt like shit playing better all lane then a kaisa for example , only for her to hit her evolution and surprise you with an all in that she shouldn't win normally , and then snowball on your ass. That is not good design
I would love to watch a series of you going in depth on how you’d change every infinite stacking champ to evolving.
There's League with a few evolvers.
And there's Dota where everyone has 2 or more ability evolutions. Including Ult.
I do agree with the infinite scaler thing, I don't think nasus is healthy, senna and veigar both feel truly weak early but nasus has a huge amount of sustain for free, and kindred never scales enough that she truly becomes "infinite scaling" due to the way her marks work, is nasus could be shifted that his q got bonus attributes at certain stack like counts like a on hit slow, or passive armor pen etc and stacking maxed out at 300 with each minon giving equivalent cs value I feel that would be much healthier
Wouldn't veigar's W also count here? Since the amount of passive stacks directly reduce the ability's CD?
kha’zix: *gets sharper claws sheds skin gains thorns and wings*
kai’sa: when i go its for gold yeah they cool but im cold i dont fit in the mold im a rebel
me: about to sue riot for not giving us a badass woman who’s suit evolves to match the needs of her situation
Now that you made this video, I realise that most of my mains are evolvers: viktor, gp, kassadin (as you said his level 16 stomp)... you do feel a massive difference once you've hit a certain milestone
Dumb question, but couldnt kindred kinda classify too? her 4 mark power spiker are super signifigent to her play style and strengh
I agree that evolution is much better than infinite scaling, every infinite scaling should be redesigned? maybe no. but for ****s sake, remove nasus!
You forgot to put "glorious"
Join the glorious evolution!
i was dissapointed at how lowkey kaisa and bulletangels evolutions were now imagine my disappointment with evos being scrapped for her ever since. why is no one critisizing riot for this?
I rather infinite scaling, it's too much fun to see people get annihilated by Veigar W.
And I think that Veigar is one of the best infinite scaling since it applies to all his damage, so you can sometimes 2hit the fucking tower and bring it down
Evolutions do have an innate "problem" (from a dev perspective). They raise the skill floor of a champion.
Tho I absoluteley agree that evolution is better than just upping the numbers on an ability, i dont think they should change champs like veigar, the main part of his fun imo is his massive damage u get lategame from just the big number
I wonder if it would be possible to design evolution mechanics for Nasus and Veigar without breaking them
Ryze mains: "wait don't you guys enjoy farming? oh i love when my team three inhibitor is out"
I hope they go evolution for the Cho rework. It makes sense for him and his e already scales off size so it partially is affected by his stacks. Also, did you know that Tahm’s Q range scales with his size?
All ho gath really needs is to get some sort of shields or armor and mr from his kit raw hp isnt enough anymore with all the %max hp damage and is even in his lore that his skin gets tougher the more he eats so make it that at 5 stacks he gets 20 armor and mr and at 10 stacks I may sound crazy but give him a 15% damage reduction that works against all types of damage in exchange nerfs his q damage and w damage a bit my fantasy as cho gath main is to be tank not be one shot by adc and I to one shot them
Most abilities like cho gaths e and tahm scales with size
0:42 Nautilus rave party
Urgot and Darius technically also evolve. Urgots w becomes a toggle at lvl 9. And Darius gets a full ult reset at lvl 16.