There is nothing wrong with this form .... in fact.... if you want to get technical .... to all you wing chun experts criticizing this video... if you play this video at the same time with Sifu Ip Man ‘s video they are almost identical ...... everyone is a critic , everyone likes to talk shit .... until they get punched in the face ....we should all as Martial Artist honor this Sifu , for his superb instructional / presentation of Chum Kiu form....🙏🏻
Excellent Chum Kill form; I liked that you didn't do it too fast like most videos I've encountered. This allows a student to grasp in every movement of the form. Thanks for posting this as I'm learning this form and it helped me understand the form much better.
To all those "wing chun experts" here saying this form is trash: There are x lineages of wing chun so it's possible there will be slight differences. Mark is a respected wing chun teacher from Ip Man - Chu Shong Tin lineage and I've personally trained with a couple of guys from CST. Trust me, he knows what he's doing. I'm learning Chum Kiu right now and this video is detailed and helpful. Saying that other lineage's forms ale trash or bullshit says more about you than about them.
I don't know who this guy is, I don't know who respects him, and I don't know if he knows what he's doing. Nor do I care. But if you are learning Cham Kiu right now, I have to point out that you should pay attention to your body weight a lot more than Mark Spence is doing because he is leaning backwards and it's a really bad habit that you should kick asap. Pay close attention in particular when he is rotating, that's when it's most obvious. Those sections showcase lan sao, and if there is one technique that will never work if you lean back, it's lan sao. This is because lan sao requires you send energy back into the ground. Most of the other technique might work leaning back, lan sao never. There's a lot I don't agree with but there wouldn't be any point discussing it with an intermediate student. However, the part about not leaning back is not a matter of opinion or lineage. It's actually one of the core ideas of Cham Kiu, which is forcing you to control your body weight for maximum efficiency.
He's just making his movements more abstract...which is not bad, since he is trying to teach it to multiple people at once. Other schools focus more on the hits, and they have another portion of the whole truth about the forms. In the end, each practitioner will perform the forms in his own specific way!
@@billmurray7676 Mark has an internal skill often called "floating root".If you have gained root skillthen you know it's based off of a line from heaven to earth that get's stronger when one learns to "sink" or "sink the chi". Later this line is condensed to a singlepoint granting root w/o the same need for ground connection. If you have developed real root skill then this is the next levelyou shouldseek otherwise keep up SLT and ground path practice until it is strong then you can refine this line to asingle"floating"point.
Thank you very much for help us to remember this great martial art. I like your video because you do it slowly. This way is much better seeing the small details.
Critiques everywhere. Thank you Sifu for keeping it to a slower pace for those wanting to see the moves. I have seen at least 10 different variation of Chum Kiu Sim, Lim Tao and Biu Jee . WIng chun is like any other art it will evolve a little with each sifu. Who is to say it is wrong , if you are not the original SIFU . SHE is the true and original artist we are all just students. even IP man may he rest respectfully was a student as was Bruce Lee.
@Stefano Da Giau he's moving completely wrong, he is pivoting on the heels with both feet moving at the same time, which greatly compromises balance if you were using any of the shapes in the chum kui form to actually redirect any force, which is what the whole form is about. Instead he should be rotating his leading foot on the ball from bui ma stance to iris stance and then doing the same in reverse with the other foot. If he actually engaged any force with the current technique he's practicing, he would be easily pushed back and probably fall. To be fair it looks as if he's got into some bad training habits though, guaranteed if you get into a fight you wont have a nice laminated floor and slippers to pivot on. You clearly have never practiced wing chun or are very bad at it to be praising his technique, the footwork is the tip of the iceberg aswell, there are so many things wrong with his chum kui. it just wouldn't work.
Marwyn The Mage Instead of criticizing, maybe you should personally touch hands with him and see if he can redirect your forces. The reason why he doesn’t need to do all those huge movements is because he can efficiently and effectively redirect your force with minimal effort. Sifu Mark Spence has shown some really high level Chum Kiu right here that an “external” practitioner cannot really see or understand until you feel it first hand.
Moreover, if you’re criticizing his form and saying he’s doing it completely wrong. His teacher was the late Grandmaster Chu Shong Tin, the King of Siu Nim Tao, whom (if you still don’t know by now) was one of the most famous student of Grandmaster Ip Man. Go check out his Chum Kiu form and dare say he also does it wrong completely. Instead of criticizing another lineage’s form, maybe try humbling yourself and thinking it might be due to your lack of understanding that lead you to such conclusions.
Watching this there are a lot of positives . Movement is lovely and fluid and posture is so relaxed. Bit different form how I learned it with the arm position being a little lower in some parts and the steps smaller. But in saying that nice instructional video and as other comments say this form can be personal to the person doing it
Obrigado Rafael pela dica! Realmente as formas são diferentes das que treino com meu sifu; porém, como existem algumas diferenças de acordo com as linhagens e até mesmo na mesma linhagem é meio que comum que isso aconteça. Se reparar bem no siu nim tao feito por Ip Man e o feito pelo seu aluno Leung Ting perceberá diferenças também. E olha que ele foi um aluno bem conceituado e "grande" representante do Wing Chun (Wing Tsun) do Ip Man. Para mim foi interessante o vídeo acima, pois auxilia no aprendizado pela forma lenta em que ele é executado. Valeu!
Na década de 80 conheci um mestre chines, Lee tat Yan (Já falecido) Treinei alguns anos com ele, sendo que ele ministrava Shaolin do Norte e Wing chun em Niteroi, no Rio; mas tenho praticado Wing chun atualmente. Não há muito tempo, mas o que vale é a nossa dedicação.
To Ahmed Han... Judging too quickly from a movie is not correct... I know Mark Spence since he came to Prague for a seminar in 2006 and he is very good...
Question, it would seem as if you keep your hands a little too close to your body. Is that the camera angle, or does your system encourage tighter positioning? Thanks.
I agree this approach is valuable for improving form, but "the" and "should" are strong words. At the end of the day, your 'hard work' comes together in application or it doesn't, and training with intensity brings its own benefits.
Your style is different from mine. At 0:35 to 0:50, there must be at least 2 inches distance for both hands. Both hands must not stick to each other. Moreover , your stance is quite different.
Unfortunately I think that this performance lacks any determination and effectiveness, but it might be intentional. Still, a good video to refresh one's memory regarding the general sequence.
Es gibt verschiedene Stile, jeder hat seine Berechtigung. Nach Ip Man ist der erste "Tritt" tatsächlich nur ein Beinheben zur Vorbereitung und keine Technik. Kannst du überprüfen, wenn du dir Ip Man Videos ansiehst. Egal ob er selbst oder Samuel Kwok oder die Söhne Ip Chun und Ip Chin. Frage dich des weiteren, warum man in Hong Kong das gesamte System in 4 Jahren lernt und bei der EWTO 30 Jahre in Endlosschleife trainiert. LG ein EX WTler und nun Schüler des Ip Man Wing Chun.
Everything is wrong in this video. You don't move feet once a time, your arms are too high. Chum-Kiu, against Siu Nim Tau, was created to move around the space. While you perform this form you should Image enemies around you. Are you kidding me?
Exactly, learn your first form and get better at that and get an understanding, then when you’re at the level, you’ll have a base for your second form movements
This doesn’t seem right. The wing hand is too short. Remember, you have to connect theory with reality, and this comes no way close. I’d love to show you what wing chun is really about. This video looks nice but loses the very main point.
those kicks need a lot of work, and so does the rest of your footwork. drop the hands an inch or two all round and really focus on the details in each movement because the whole thing is sloppy.
Lina G I have, and in that footage he is like 90. don;t try and learn from an old man that can barely move, learn from his top students or theirs since most of the guys directly trained by ip are old AF now.
Mark Spence learned wing chun from one of Yip Man's top students Chu Shong Tin for more than 20 years. You may be learning a different lineage of wing chun, but it doesn't make it less ridiculous that you're trying to give this man your advice. Don't judge his form until you challenge his skills in real life.
What about the pink belt? Can those kicks pass the mighty pink belt? Your positioning relative to your wc knowledge needs some re-positioning. #nosuchthingasbeltsinwingchun
Don't go to chi sau club kids. There are so many things wrong with this form, even his understanding of wing chun really. Switching of stance, execution of the sentences , sharpness and power of the delivery, which only comes from an understanding what the sentences are applied to. I shudder to think this guy is a sifu. Clearly just some dude practicing nice looking movements. His wing chun just wouldn't work outside of the studio.
Marwyn The Mage Before you attack someone, go do some research on who this man is. Just because in your perspective he’s not doing something your limited experience and understanding could understand doesn’t mean he’s doing it incorrectly. Way to falsely accuse or slander an honorable honest person.
He would hit you once and you don't get up - your guts feel like a small hand grenade went off inside you - so yeah, he can use this stuff real good!!!
Sifu Mark worked as a bouncer for 12 years in NZ. He knows how to handle himself. If the forms don't make sense to you that is because the lineage differs.
There is nothing wrong with this form .... in fact.... if you want to get technical .... to all you wing chun experts criticizing this video... if you play this video at the same time with Sifu Ip Man ‘s video they are almost identical ...... everyone is a critic , everyone likes to talk shit .... until they get punched in the face ....we should all as Martial Artist honor this Sifu , for his superb instructional / presentation of Chum Kiu form....🙏🏻
You said true brother.
True. Good video
Well said. The toxic nature of the online martial arts community never fails to disappoint.
xD what has being punched in the face got to do with making valid or invalid criticism of a youtube video?
Except this guy is pivoting on the heel when it should be with the ball of the foot
Excellent Chum Kill form; I liked that you didn't do it too fast like most videos I've encountered. This allows a student to grasp in every movement of the form. Thanks for posting this as I'm learning this form and it helped me understand the form much better.
To all those "wing chun experts" here saying this form is trash: There are x lineages of wing chun so it's possible there will be slight differences. Mark is a respected wing chun teacher from Ip Man - Chu Shong Tin lineage and I've personally trained with a couple of guys from CST. Trust me, he knows what he's doing.
I'm learning Chum Kiu right now and this video is detailed and helpful.
Saying that other lineage's forms ale trash or bullshit says more about you than about them.
I don't know who this guy is, I don't know who respects him, and I don't know if he knows what he's doing. Nor do I care.
But if you are learning Cham Kiu right now, I have to point out that you should pay attention to your body weight a lot more than Mark Spence is doing because he is leaning backwards and it's a really bad habit that you should kick asap. Pay close attention in particular when he is rotating, that's when it's most obvious. Those sections showcase lan sao, and if there is one technique that will never work if you lean back, it's lan sao. This is because lan sao requires you send energy back into the ground. Most of the other technique might work leaning back, lan sao never.
There's a lot I don't agree with but there wouldn't be any point discussing it with an intermediate student. However, the part about not leaning back is not a matter of opinion or lineage. It's actually one of the core ideas of Cham Kiu, which is forcing you to control your body weight for maximum efficiency.
@@billmurray7676 thank you, I appreciate this. An honest, constructive comment instead of "this is bullshit, period"
He's just making his movements more abstract...which is not bad, since he is trying to teach it to multiple people at once. Other schools focus more on the hits, and they have another portion of the whole truth about the forms. In the end, each practitioner will perform the forms in his own specific way!
@@billmurray7676 Mark has an internal skill often called "floating root".If you have gained root skillthen you know it's based off of a line from heaven to earth that get's stronger when one learns to "sink" or "sink the chi". Later this line is condensed to a singlepoint granting root w/o the same need for ground connection. If you have developed real root skill then this is the next levelyou shouldseek otherwise keep up SLT and ground path practice until it is strong then you can refine this line to asingle"floating"point.
@@jasonsecretsword7606 uh-huh. When does the wizard come in?
Great display of the Chum Kiu form Mark, thank you very much.
thank you very much for teaching chum kiu form in a slow way ... others do it very fast and it is difficult to practice
A great video Sifu. I needed a nice slow and frontal version for my exam and for review. This was a great video by yourself. Thank you very much.
Thank you for sharing , you can really see the unity and rotation from the spine :) more clips please :)
Thank you Sifu Mark.
Your video is the template for my self learning the Chum Kiu form.
I was so into this a few years ago. I didn't move on. I use it as a foundation of what I'm moving forward to archive.
muito obrigado por divulgar este video, aprendi faze-lo todo,estou aprendendo muito com os videos.tenho um pouco de noção do wing chun.
entre em contato para tirarmos duvida do estilo sei um pouco tbem e pretendo diluir muito
Thank you very much for help us to remember this great martial art.
I like your video because you do it slowly. This way is much better seeing the small details.
Critiques everywhere. Thank you Sifu for keeping it to a slower pace for those wanting to see the moves. I have seen at least 10 different variation of Chum Kiu Sim, Lim Tao and Biu Jee . WIng chun is like any other art it will evolve a little with each sifu. Who is to say it is wrong , if you are not the original SIFU . SHE is the true and original artist we are all just students. even IP man may he rest respectfully was a student as was Bruce Lee.
@Stefano Da Giau he's moving completely wrong, he is pivoting on the heels with both feet moving at the same time, which greatly compromises balance if you were using any of the shapes in the chum kui form to actually redirect any force, which is what the whole form is about. Instead he should be rotating his leading foot on the ball from bui ma stance to iris stance and then doing the same in reverse with the other foot. If he actually engaged any force with the current technique he's practicing, he would be easily pushed back and probably fall. To be fair it looks as if he's got into some bad training habits though, guaranteed if you get into a fight you wont have a nice laminated floor and slippers to pivot on. You clearly have never practiced wing chun or are very bad at it to be praising his technique, the footwork is the tip of the iceberg aswell, there are so many things wrong with his chum kui. it just wouldn't work.
No, he's just doing the form completely wrong
Same basic shapes, just executed very, very poorly
Marwyn The Mage Instead of criticizing, maybe you should personally touch hands with him and see if he can redirect your forces. The reason why he doesn’t need to do all those huge movements is because he can efficiently and effectively redirect your force with minimal effort. Sifu Mark Spence has shown some really high level Chum Kiu right here that an “external” practitioner cannot really see or understand until you feel it first hand.
Moreover, if you’re criticizing his form and saying he’s doing it completely wrong. His teacher was the late Grandmaster Chu Shong Tin, the King of Siu Nim Tao, whom (if you still don’t know by now) was one of the most famous student of Grandmaster Ip Man. Go check out his Chum Kiu form and dare say he also does it wrong completely. Instead of criticizing another lineage’s form, maybe try humbling yourself and thinking it might be due to your lack of understanding that lead you to such conclusions.
Шикарное исполнение. И музыка подобрана серьёзная! Была бы возможность у вас поучиться.
Watching this there are a lot of positives . Movement is lovely and fluid and posture is so relaxed. Bit different form how I learned it with the arm position being a little lower in some parts and the steps smaller. But in saying that nice instructional video and as other comments say this form can be personal to the person doing it
I've never seen chum kiu like this before. I like it a lot!
The Best ! thank you for sharing...
Beautiful form and music. Cheers from Sifu Adie Gray of Ip Ching Adie Gray Wing Chung.
This is a mixture between ip man's traditional form and the common one
This is Chu Shong Tin's style. CST was one of Ip Man's direct students.
Dare good, very useful, thank muchly.
Very relaxing and pwerful.
That looked deceptively effortless.
Muito bom! Muito me auxiliou na memorização das formas. O melhor vídeo que encontrei para esse propósito.
Paulo Cesar ; a postura e alguns movimentos não foram executados da maneira correta.
Obrigado Rafael pela dica! Realmente as formas são diferentes das que treino com meu sifu; porém, como existem algumas diferenças de acordo com as linhagens e até mesmo na mesma linhagem é meio que comum que isso aconteça. Se reparar bem no siu nim tao feito por Ip Man e o feito pelo seu aluno Leung Ting perceberá diferenças também. E olha que ele foi um aluno bem conceituado e "grande" representante do Wing Chun (Wing Tsun) do Ip Man. Para mim foi interessante o vídeo acima, pois auxilia no aprendizado pela forma lenta em que ele é executado. Valeu!
Paulo Cesar ; tem razão aniki, o importante é saber aplicar os movimentos em combate. já pratica à quanto tempo?
Na década de 80 conheci um mestre chines, Lee tat Yan (Já falecido) Treinei alguns anos com ele, sendo que ele ministrava Shaolin do Norte e Wing chun em Niteroi, no Rio; mas tenho praticado Wing chun atualmente. Não há muito tempo, mas o que vale é a nossa dedicação.
Paulo Cesar ; que legal irmão, continue indo a fundo nessa arte.
you are so elegant and balanced
Very precise and good
To Ahmed Han... Judging too quickly from a movie is not correct... I know Mark Spence since he came to Prague for a seminar in 2006 and he is very good...
What should that be? Only small similarity to the chum kiu form.
No dai bongs on last part? I’m Ip Ching lineage, I’m confused . I don’t understand this interpretation of Chum Kiu.
I see a lot of demonstrations of Chum Kui but not much on what we are doing it for.
Spar then. Otherwise you're wasting youre time
Question, it would seem as if you keep your hands a little too close to your body. Is that the camera angle, or does your system encourage tighter positioning? Thanks.
Keeps his hands way too close. Gonna get jammed.
I'm guessing CST? Much focus on transitioning between positions with minimal tension.
Correct. The way WC should be done.
Source: I'm one of his students.
I agree this approach is valuable for improving form, but "the" and "should" are strong words. At the end of the day, your 'hard work' comes together in application or it doesn't, and training with intensity brings its own benefits.
I`m sorry to say that his form is so wrong that I`d send him back to the beginner class.
A comment I can agree with so much wrong with this form
Tem que melhorar algumas coisas, mas parabéns por divulgar a arte.
ty for doing it slowly
Your style is different from mine. At 0:35 to 0:50, there must be at least 2 inches distance for both hands. Both hands must not stick to each other. Moreover , your stance is quite different.
Por favor a 3 forma, muito bom o video
Merci !!
my dad was teaching me chum kiu but i watch this instead
Unfortunately I think that this performance lacks any determination and effectiveness, but it might be intentional. Still, a good video to refresh one's memory regarding the general sequence.
Were you just trying to demonstrate the movements because there was a complete lack of power. Or were you doing some form of qi gong.
That's internal kung fu, I think he's doing it for over 30 years, just don't mess with this guy.
Mark's been doing WC for 40 years now!
sifu choi ming hoi
😅
poderoso
Kassulke Estate
Die Form ist richtig aber die Beinbewegungen nicht
MUSIK MAN garnichts ist richtig oh man Schweiß WTler
Es gibt verschiedene Stile, jeder hat seine Berechtigung. Nach Ip Man ist der erste "Tritt" tatsächlich nur ein Beinheben zur Vorbereitung und keine Technik. Kannst du überprüfen, wenn du dir Ip Man Videos ansiehst. Egal ob er selbst oder Samuel Kwok oder die Söhne Ip Chun und Ip Chin. Frage dich des weiteren, warum man in Hong Kong das gesamte System in 4 Jahren lernt und bei der EWTO 30 Jahre in Endlosschleife trainiert. LG ein EX WTler und nun Schüler des Ip Man Wing Chun.
Bong looks like a lan.
ok
Und die Hand ist falsch
what is this? lol
I am petty sure that he does not know what he is trying to demonstrate and does not even know the purpose of each movement.
That's internal Kung fu. He's very powerful, I think he's been doing it for over 30 years, don't mess with him.
Everything is wrong in this video.
You don't move feet once a time, your arms are too high.
Chum-Kiu, against Siu Nim Tau, was created to move around the space. While you perform this form you should Image enemies around you. Are you kidding me?
so hard :(
+áron pintér If you learn siu lim tao first it shouldn't be too difficult
Exactly, learn your first form and get better at that and get an understanding, then when you’re at the level, you’ll have a base for your second form movements
Iras et chum kiu not comment
Nice and slow
This doesn’t seem right. The wing hand is too short. Remember, you have to connect theory with reality, and this comes no way close. I’d love to show you what wing chun is really about. This video looks nice but loses the very main point.
ALL WRONG!
Edit: All right!*
those kicks need a lot of work, and so does the rest of your footwork. drop the hands an inch or two all round and really focus on the details in each movement because the whole thing is sloppy.
greed fox obviously you have never seen the actual footage of ip man doing chum kiu. The exact same kicks.
Lina G I have, and in that footage he is like 90. don;t try and learn from an old man that can barely move, learn from his top students or theirs since most of the guys directly trained by ip are old AF now.
the footage of Ip man it's not so good, he was hiding many movements during his videos
Mark Spence learned wing chun from one of Yip Man's top students Chu Shong Tin for more than 20 years. You may be learning a different lineage of wing chun, but it doesn't make it less ridiculous that you're trying to give this man your advice. Don't judge his form until you challenge his skills in real life.
Lousy Footwork sorry man no power in your form also incorrect position when your doing the Bong Sau in the middle of your form.
LMAOOOOO
Это ужас говно отстой не вин чунь
Well you know this form but not perfect.With these kicks you cannot pass even the green belt.Your positioning needs practice.
Wood Zed Lol, you're talking about coloured belts. 😁
What about the pink belt? Can those kicks pass the mighty pink belt?
Your positioning relative to your wc knowledge needs some re-positioning.
#nosuchthingasbeltsinwingchun
All wrong
Yawn
wrong
Don't go to chi sau club kids. There are so many things wrong with this form, even his understanding of wing chun really. Switching of stance, execution of the sentences , sharpness and power of the delivery, which only comes from an understanding what the sentences are applied to. I shudder to think this guy is a sifu. Clearly just some dude practicing nice looking movements. His wing chun just wouldn't work outside of the studio.
Marwyn The Mage Before you attack someone, go do some research on who this man is. Just because in your perspective he’s not doing something your limited experience and understanding could understand doesn’t mean he’s doing it incorrectly. Way to falsely accuse or slander an honorable honest person.
He would hit you once and you don't get up - your guts feel like a small hand grenade went off inside you - so yeah, he can use this stuff real good!!!
Sifu Mark worked as a bouncer for 12 years in NZ.
He knows how to handle himself.
If the forms don't make sense to you that is because the lineage differs.
You are quick to criticize without understanding. You do yourself a grave disservice to your practice if you do not at least find out what's going on.
Looks so lazy. You should see how Cheung does the form.
He would knock you through a wall! You have no idea how much force this block can generate! Cheung is a lying fraud!