Just like the Frost treatment, in MK11 she never had any meterless freezing combos and require meter to to perform one. While in MK1 they made ice ball entirety useless cause nothing connects to it without losing combo.
Yeah but that's from the infinite mixups with him, this sub needs some better damage though he can get around 34-36% consistently for me it's worse than lots of characters
Sub in MK11 is the reason I retired from the game, and I was in the top 1% of ranked players. Even the worst players were able to contend with top tier players and humiliate them, much like the erron black slide/tackle spam.
That's only because he had an insane f2 that was super quick. In this game his b2 is super slow and that's his only OH. Certain kameos allow for consistent 40% but that's with resources. Compared to characters with plus frames on jabs and 50-60% combos
@@nuclear816 An overhead move that is +4 but can never actually hit someone's block is still the funniest thing to me. Hypothetical plus frames is one of the craziest things I've ever said out loud lmao
@@olofacosta3192 lmaooo of course he did. I recall Scarecrow had a pretty useless 3 hit string from his s3. I'm positive I could find enough material to make a vid like this for probly all NRS fighting games tbh. I genuinely wish I could interview the devs and ask them what they intended with moves like that. Especially Mileenas string or the Smoke ones I mentioned in the vid
Day 1 that move bothered me. Lots of stuff in the frame data and move list was incorrect at first. But now all these months later...that error is still there xD
@@rockycuro7737 I wouldn’t pin this solely on WB. NRS had a longer dev cycle to make MK1. If anything, they were learning to use a new engine for this game and that’s probably why it feels so bare compared to MK11.
The worst thing about Raiden's Razzle Dazzle is that the current version of it is the "buffed" version after they butchered 3 of his best specials and his passive. They couldn't even be bothered to make the move plus with his passive active. Truly a masterclass of game design
Because Raiden, Johnny, Kenshi, and Sindel were the only characters being used the most before we got Peacemaker. It’s easier to nerf Raiden while still keeping him fine, granted he’s now mostly carried by kameos now, but I will admit that they need to fully list and reevaluate how his passive works.
Razzle dazzle is a combo tool for no resource air juggles from some strings and works to create space and reset neutral on block, not a crazy move but far from being as worthless as some others in this list
@@jaidora yeah, its much rarer, since razzle does not help with his main buttons like the jabs and f434. I legit Just know this because i always do combo trials aand tutorials
As a Raiden main since forever, Razzle Dazzle has to be thee worst move he’s ever had. Like what gives? No damage, no set up, nothing. Literally nothing. The only cases where you could properly use that move is either the EX version with a Kameo or, in corner combos. Forward 2 2 4 + Razzle Dazzle into standing 2 4 2 works + EX Shocker works as a corner combo. But the thing is…why do that when I can get more damage from other things? Imo, that’s one move I definitely think NRS needs to actually get rid of. It does nothing. They’ve been adding things to characters and Raiden needs to get this checked out.
@@Mavado_Catolico Smoke's armor is actually one of the worst in the game. Its really easy to trigger it and then still be able to block and punish it. And if you expect his armor, you can just antiair it before he can hit you after the teleport. Theres no guess or mindgame, its one of the most unsafe and slow armor moves lol
@@AmiriHipHop honestly I was back and forth, but wasn't sure i had enough entries for a 2nd part, and since I didn't spend very long on them, I could still probly use them and just elaborate more if i do make a 2nd part, assuming I get enough moves with the DLC to fill another list of 10 lol
Faster invis. Fallings Fangs EX into cancel still better tho. Temp invis and has armor IIRC standard invis had the same time current EX does but it was nerfed for EX to exist… bruh
I think Kung Lao's f4 deserves to be here. Terrible start up, and is super unsafe. There is almost no reason to ever use this unless your opponent is giving birth. His f3 string is also pretty bad compared to other characters who have the exact same move but better like Liu kang and Scorpion.
so glad to see this kinda content getting made! this kind of sloppy game design really is a problem. when I pick up a new fighting game, the first thing I usually do to decide on a main is run through the roster writing off every character that has a tool that just seems totally pointless, and often times that just about halves the characters I have to pick out of
I’m a sub zero main and literally the only time ice ball is viable is if you’re trying to play mind games with a much better zoner at distance. Or from very niche kameo uses.
@@KoolSocietyFilms it actually seems decent with Ferra, and F4 at least seems like a good gap closer so im sure if you just mash the full F434 string, it'll catch people more often than Sub's ice ball at least lol
@@Mk_Bowzer I had an actual blast making and editing this, so im really glad its noticeable to people and that people are enjoying it!! So thank you very much!!
Raidens razzle dazzle allows you to combo without meter off of his f224 in the corner. It’s his best option off of f224 in the corner especially since you can use meter later in the combo if you choose. Great list though nice vid
@@kamerongarrett4555 I think I had that in one of my clips for that section, but didn't realize that it was actually a viable use for it lol. Thats kinda neat. It almost makes it more annoying that its a 0 damage move. But thank you for the correction and the kind words!
@@kamerongarrett4555 Yup! I mentioned that part in my video at least. One of my practice partners mentioned it after I had already recorded the voice-over and edited most of the section so I had to go back and add in that part lmao
I personally main Ermac sometimes. I like that back 3 because it’s a “get off me” move. If reptile or reiko or whoever else is running toward you, you simply do that so they can back up. You can also do it if they’re trying to get a bit closer or they hit from too far away, you hit them with it. As for the opponent being too far, If they zone from far away, you teleport behind them. It’s quite viable in my experience
As a Havik main, I get caught by Subs ice ball more than I'd like to admit. Seeking Neoplasm does not beat ice ball, and Ill be sure to remember that one day.
Great video, love how it's informative, but also with a great humor, like asking NRS more and more concerning questions as the list moves on 😂 Voicing numbers with the corresponding characters' AI voices is also a nice touch, i liked it.
@@CoolSaver thank you very much! I appreciate that a lot! I had a lot of fun making it and structuring the asking NRS sections like I was getting progressively more concerned or frustrated was what i was tryna convey so I'm glad it showed through! Though I forgot to add a version for number 1, but I guess my Smoke rant probly sufficed lol And I was worried people would be super against the AI voices for that, but I've only seen a couple comments that really had a problem with it. I thought it'd just add a neat extra flair to the transitions so thats nice to hear you felt that way too haha. Thank you for the support!
Some of these moves are understandably mistakes, as in you could see what NRS might’ve been trying to do. Everyone makes mistakes. But some of these are so bad its actually mind boggling I can’t even defend them. Great breakdown in this video, you clearly put effort into labbing before you made your decisions, great editing, funny commentary. You earned a new sub
havik he's so cool looking but his combos are horrible sub zero just the slow moves and no style in combos lao is easily top 3 most boring characters. that's my top 3
@@mekk96 prior to this patch, Lao, Tanya, and probly Scorpion would have been on my list. I actually really like Havik, but his combo routes weren't as cool. Now he feels amazing to play, and Tanya is slightly more interesting. But my list would still probly be her, Lao, and Scorp lol. I find Scorp's more defensive play style to be boring, and he doesn't seem to have a large amount of combo routes which isn't as interesting to me
Ay man, just realized i had my notis set to “personalized” for some reason 😭. Thats why i couldn’t see when u uploaded lol. Vid didn’t disappoint man! Also i’d like to claim the fact that i was the one who told u phasing through even existed, it was on a live i remember this well lol. U were so shocked to see it. Banger as usual man 🔥🔥🤙🏻🤙🏻
@@drakevandoom LOL its actually so funny to think about it like that. I was dying making that graphic at the end of the Mileena section thinking about how many of those values actually are 100% hypothetical lmao
I feel like people dont realize that this games variation system IS the kameos. They basically gives you more specials to do more with your character. and sometimes, specific movies literally only exist to get a kameo extention. Just like some how in past games some moves dont do anything except finish a basic combo and be done unless you have a variation to combo with. Because of how different every single one of these kameos are, some characters are going to have throw away move s that only work with some kameos to make sure that if your using that kameo because you want to, you have options. Thats why you can only pick one kameo. Its a give and take. Pick this kameo for this move an dthis strength, at the cost of this other move and this other strength. Ice ball works fine as a zoning tool. If it was fast it would be broken. if it froze for longer it would be broken. Its exactly what it needs to be. Not all characters, in fact most dont have a teleport, so if you fire that from mid screen they have to respect it because if they get hit by it with a trade you get full combo. Nitaras string can literally be comboed off of by Janet, mavado or ferra. You yourself say it works off of ferra. Sometimes moves have one purpose? This isnt even a kind of new thing. Literally the past 3 games have had that. A safe on block one button, with kameo meterless combo starter? Thats amazing. What are you talking about If you use meterless timestop and use fan lift or teleport or something that allows you to combo meterlessly from timestop, do that, use it. The application is there. if you do an air combo then extend with kameo and use the meterburn thing and go right up to them, you can apply pressure with unsafe moves for free This is so far the only one I will somewhat agree with you on, but really? You can't use flawless block punishable as an argument when its a single move. You push that, they wont see it coming, they cant block other attacks, its a one move thing. Its never going to get flawless blocked. Yeah the move is pretty useless but thats not an argument for sindel see the first thing I said. Some moves have to be open ended so if the player decides to pick a different kameo then they can. Its giving you options. Would you rather every character have specific kameos and the character just isn't playable without them? I will grant that tanyas move is useless. its an unnecessary route. Fair I will also grant that mileenas thing is dumb Non ex razzle dazzle is pointless. Meter burn isn't. It restands, and sets up for kameo with pre stated gravity. So no if you hit it even at the end of the combo, you can combo off it with a kameo. Thats really good. Raidens basic combo is literally a reset. its to throw them to the other side to get a neutral reset so throw projectiles. Thats useful, if you dont know why, idk what to tell you buddy. kitanas two hit string can be combos off of with kameos. smokes air combo not better than the main one but you could still use it. Would you rather they only give you one choice? smokes side switch you can throw out mavados otg which would shove them fully into the corner where as the other side switches push you too far out so they wouldnt be in the corner.
As a Geras player, I usually use the hour glass-sand storm as a way to set up a pressure situation with the Motaro flurry of lazers, but you are right, Geras has already so many other ways to use meter that it's tough to save meter specifically to get this move out. Either way it's nice to have the option.
I’ve always found Kung Lao’s F4 to be really terrible. The only time I’ve ever seen anyone use it is on accident and on block or whiff you are stuck for ages watching Lao breakdance on the floor.
Haha I get this was only an honorable mention..But I actually use Kitana’s B14 in the corner. D1 jails into it and if it’s block, you’re plus frames right in their face and if it hits, Movado kombo. Cool list though. Interesting.
@@junior14536 Thank you so much!! I'm really glad it shows. I had a blast making this and it is definitely my proudest video so far. Getting cloned AI voices and then spamming the generate button until I had a voiceline that actually sounded really close to the character took way longer than it should have but im really happy with how it came out and its sick that other people are into it too so thanks! :)
@@DGolden94 he's a weird one for sure. And definitely got way over nerfed. All he needed was for poke into storm cell to get toned down. Idk why they destroyed so many other aspects of his kit
That last part about the basic punching and kicking speaks to me a lot. You imagine these characters as very powerful beings that bend the elements and stuff but then, they sure do a lot of basic punching and kicking for half their moveset don't they? MK should get more creative with their normals, honestly
That Nitara kick combo can be useful for catching opponents off guard. The move covers a decent amount of space useful to rush down an opponent. True, it's not high damage, but there's strategy in it.
Great list, they have been adding new moves to the characters which is nice, but, it's about time they start revisiting some moves. Wasn't aware of the Mileena string condition, which is wild.
Thank you for putting into words all of the issues with Geras Amp Sandstorm. Honestly just give geras low Sand Trap back as the amp version, it wouldn't be as spammable and would give him a real projectile for the zone war. 5% projectile is pain
@@wren8253 Yo whats up! I've definitely got plans for the DLC/this patch. The 2 videos I've got on the backburner that I've started scripting are a beginner Noob Guide/Combo Structure(more like my Ermac one than my Smoke and Sub ones) and a Smoke/Sektor updated synergy guide, because he's just amazing with the buffs they keep giving him. I would like to do guides for Havik and Cyrax as well, and more Kameo Klasses, and i have some more entertainment focused vids like this i wanna do in between guides. So I've definitely got a lot in my brain and I appreciate your support and kind words immensely! I had a blast editing this and planning some of the sarcasm and jokes, so it always makes my day to hear when people enjoyed them!!
When i was playing raiden, i believe i had learned from a guide to use that move for anti air. Of they crossed you up, you'd get shocker, and if they stayed on the same side, they'd pop up with that move.
@@iamthenati forreal, its so bad lmao. I forgot to mention the hit advantage but im pretty sure all his specials have similar or better hit advantage than phasing through as well. I'd love to ask NRS what they intended for us to do with that move lmao
@@Justme-vz4px Thank you very much, im glad it was enjoyable!! And it activates after Raiden takes a certain amount of chip damage in a round. Which is super random and its bizarre that he's one of the only characters with a passive mechanic like that lmao
@@CruiseshipcarlHell yea thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed! And if I can find 10 more horrible moves and come up with enough interesting things to say about them then I will definitely make a part 2! I've definitely got plenty to choose from with Smoke and Raiden. And like 1/4 of my comments are giving me shit for not picking Lao F4 so I might be able to with the DLC lol
Subzero's back-forward+2 is the special move meant to be abused. Faster start up, hits mid and can win a lot of projectile wars. Wanting his freeze to also be O.P. as a projectile shows a lack of understanding and a desire to play brain dead.
Geras' delayed sand trap just feels like they wanted to redo the delayed ground shake that aftershock Tremor had in mkx and somehow made an absolutely atrocious alternate version of it
I'm a Sindel main, I was so offended you'd say she has a useless move cause most of her moves are kinda great. Then you showed the move and I was like "oh yeah, I forgot she has that" In the year I've been playing her now, I can't remember using it a single time lmao
As a geras player, the close ex sandtrap is occasionally useful if ur backed up against the corner. But generally, yea its prettt useless. In invasions npc Geras' sandtrap always tracks the opponent for some reason. They should implement that for the main character. It would force u to block and lead to pressure opportunities.
Raiden's Razzle Dazzle is actually pretty good for 1 (one) specific combo in the corner. If you start with F224 and then Razzle Dazzle you can extend the combo and allows a 242 into Shocker (if you get the timing right, you can hit a 2 in the air and then 242). It deals considerably more damage than just going F224 into Shocker.
@@simplydolgoruky1018 I considered it and maybe could have put it in honorable mentions if I hadn't already chosen 3 others, but my reasoning was Lao F4 at least causes a crumple, and I was unsure if there were maybe some weird kameo routes that could make that actually semi worth using for a combo or something due to the unique hit effect. But I can see why so many people are surprised I didn't include it lol I'll probly do a part 2 of this list eventually and it'll be a main contender in that case probly
I made this comment on another video talking about Raiden's db2, it has a lot more use than people think: Db2 jails after his best neutral check button, which is his d4, on block. If you space out your d4 and cancel into db2, you essentially get a safe poke special mind game against 99% of the game because it will be un-punishable from that distance. From max range no one can punish it, not even Johnny’s reversal shadow kick. If they try to press after the d4 and get hit, db2 is +21 so you can dash up and jail a s1 even from max distance. You can also use it as a standing reset because of the plus frames if you don’t have bar or your kameo available for a combo extension. It’s also 10f startup so you can actually punish some pokes and other specials with pushback, and if you pair him with someone like Mavado or Scorpion for example, you can combo off the EX version if you do get a punish for decent damage. On top of the synergy with his passive buff and the fact that you can use it for meterless conversions in the corner as well, db2 is actually not even Raiden's most useless move as a character. Talking strictly special moves, sure. But his f2-1 string serves far less of a purpose than db2 does
As a havik main his standing 4 is pretty good. If you're mixing in the corner or your opponent knows that 21 is safe you can throw that kick out to stagger. A lot of people don't know that's a safe move and will assume they can hit after. Works good too for a combo ender. it's not something that is used a lot but it makes him more random too which is what havik is made for.
This is what id do for the hour glass move for geras: For still one bar, he will create the hour glass above his opponents head no matter what distance you choose, with two frames cut off the start up and the recovery cut to 58 instead of 75. The hour glass will track the opponent’s movement until the sandstorm tigger’s, the trigger time is the same 2.6 seconds or whatever, however the tracking of the hourglass is not super fast it moves at a walking speed type pace dashing or teleporting away will get your out of it most likely if you time it right, or fast dashing moves or combos that move across the screen quickly. But for block presser this will be nice and if they happen to punish you and it doesn’t have alot of “fast” screen travel distance, they will get hit out of there combo freeing you.
What I’ve learned is they seem useless but when you’re in an awkward position it’s sometime the only thing that works , a lot of moves duck under or go over like haviks kick punish that’s highly punishable , it jumps over many lows
Loved the video. I hope NRS see it and do something about it. I agree with almost everything. Just Raiden’s db2 is not useless. It is a poke punish. It got nerfed unfortunately, for no reason because no one was using it before. But it was punishing any -9 move to get a huge turn. With kameos you can combo. But they nerfed it and now you can only punish -10 moves. Like ermac’s d4 for example. So it is not completely useless. It should go back to the original version imo.
These are my thoughts for each of listed moves, some I think are fine to exist if they give you space or block advantage but buffing them might be a better solution. Sub Zero: yeah I wish it was a little more faster. Maybe 35 frames and 32 frames with meter (a larger size hit box would also be fine in my opinion) otherwise everyone will be spamming it even more. Nitara: probably used for chip damage, being -8 with a little more pushback wouldn’t hurt. She’s already good right now so if that move gets a special cancel opportunity then that would be too good. Havik: Honestly I forgot what his S4 is. If it’s a mid then that’s fine but it’s also Havik so maybe they intentionally gave him a bad button. Geras: Doesn’t that move track the opponent? It could have a different property based on how many hourglass charges you have?”, something to wish for. Ermac: could just be a poking move, maybe or hopefully it gets a brutality. Having a faster start up would also be nice. Sindel: honestly might just be for kameo set up. It should have more pushback though. Tanya: no idea. Maybe the very rare instance where the opponent ducks the first hit so the second hit catches them off guard but that’s still bad. Mileena: just make it special cancel into any air special or causes the opponent to bounce. Raiden: should be +4 on block and have a brutality on the meter version. Smoke: The only way to save that string is by making it a true mid command grab.
I think I said this in your "Buffs Wishlist" vid but if Ex Vicious Vapors was not only faster but also made Smoke shift backward, it would be such a good mindfuck tool because you could follow up with b2 or Smoke Bomb.
@@BlackXSunlight Having smoke-away would be so amazing actually. Whether thats a new move, or a cancel that only works from the EX version of the move, it would be awesome.
As a Tanya main, it's totally true. I never use Back 2 4. Not even for fun, just never found a use for it. I guess I don't mind so much as she has so many good tools any way but it would be nice if the string had some kind of use.
on Geras - several cameos like Motaro or Khameleon can actually mitigate the recovery factor, btw with the last this move can actually become a big threat
Sindels b23 isnt as useless, its great to end longer combos after a lot of gravity has been used because the bounce after the dive will almost always combo into db4, FB, etc. Comboing with a kameo after b3, 244, b232 uses more gravity then normal and using b23>ender will be guaranteed and give the most damage when f43 drops
@@nguyenminhat9374 lol I probly could have mentioned it in honorable mentions, but my justification was that it at least does something unique with the crumple hit effect, and figured maybe there's some weird kameo combo route with him where its usable in that role, so I couldn't justify putting it fully on the list. But I can understand why you feel that way lol
This is true with Mileena as I main her , I remember practicing the hell outta her with that move just to relise its useless online. You hve to hit for it to come out aha
@@СЕРГЕЙ_МАРКОВ_26 i had a blast making it and I really appreciate you saying that, thank you!! I put a ton of effort in and its really cool to hear that you can tell
Sub Zero's ice ball exists to get stolen by Shujinko and used mid kombo.
No but FR! 💀 My favorite reason to play against Sub Zero 😅
Just like the Frost treatment, in MK11 she never had any meterless freezing combos and require meter to to perform one. While in MK1 they made ice ball entirety useless cause nothing connects to it without losing combo.
@@rawkitlawnchairits the main reason i dont play subzero in mk1
Lmao
This just only truly meeds to be faster and it will be fine idk why its so slow lol
"Nrs why are you so afraid of sub " 😂😂😂 yall really forget how much people complained about sub in in mk11
Yeah but that's from the infinite mixups with him, this sub needs some better damage though he can get around 34-36% consistently for me it's worse than lots of characters
Sub in MK11 is the reason I retired from the game, and I was in the top 1% of ranked players.
Even the worst players were able to contend with top tier players and humiliate them, much like the erron black slide/tackle spam.
@We_Are_Borg_478 you were not top 1, sthu.
That's only because he had an insane f2 that was super quick. In this game his b2 is super slow and that's his only OH. Certain kameos allow for consistent 40% but that's with resources. Compared to characters with plus frames on jabs and 50-60% combos
@@jaymzg.1368hahaha that guy is a undercover sonix fox
Raiden's Superman tackle doesnt have the AYYBAHBAHYAAAY
Useless.
Thank god. Im glad that goofy trash is gone. Same with Liu Kang's "bicycle kicks" clear upgrade
@@PLaStiiCMoNtAGE no.
@@bdo333 take of your sad nostalgia goggles lil bro
@@PLaStiiCMoNtAGE "lil bro"
@@bdo333ay i stand by ur side, i miss raiden spamming that ayybayayhaua something line 😂
What makes sub zeros iceball worse is its supposed to be used from mid screen not full screen.
It's hilarious because I immediately knew which move you were going to pick from Mileena.
@@nuclear816 An overhead move that is +4 but can never actually hit someone's block is still the funniest thing to me. Hypothetical plus frames is one of the craziest things I've ever said out loud lmao
Superman had a string like that in injustice too lol. Judt dont understand hiw NRS balance their games@AwesomeBRINKS
@@olofacosta3192 lmaooo of course he did. I recall Scarecrow had a pretty useless 3 hit string from his s3. I'm positive I could find enough material to make a vid like this for probly all NRS fighting games tbh. I genuinely wish I could interview the devs and ask them what they intended with moves like that. Especially Mileenas string or the Smoke ones I mentioned in the vid
Day 1 that move bothered me. Lots of stuff in the frame data and move list was incorrect at first. But now all these months later...that error is still there xD
What type of drugs was they doin to make projectiles on THE GROUND mid???
🤣 tbf Sub zero's ground projectile does go above the knees
MK1 was an early beta and you can clearly see that now by the Khaos patch.
Fuckin WB
@@rockycuro7737 I wouldn’t pin this solely on WB. NRS had a longer dev cycle to make MK1. If anything, they were learning to use a new engine for this game and that’s probably why it feels so bare compared to MK11.
@@Burrito_AM wasn’t this game supposed to be injustice 3 originally before WB made them change it to mortal kombat?
@@rockycuro7737 That I do not know. Rumors were spread that suggested that was the case but it was never officially stated/investigated.
It fr was not finished when it came out but I like the direction it’s going
The worst thing about Raiden's Razzle Dazzle is that the current version of it is the "buffed" version after they butchered 3 of his best specials and his passive. They couldn't even be bothered to make the move plus with his passive active. Truly a masterclass of game design
Raiden has a passive?
Because Raiden, Johnny, Kenshi, and Sindel were the only characters being used the most before we got Peacemaker. It’s easier to nerf Raiden while still keeping him fine, granted he’s now mostly carried by kameos now, but I will admit that they need to fully list and reevaluate how his passive works.
Razzle dazzle is a combo tool for no resource air juggles from some strings and works to create space and reset neutral on block, not a crazy move but far from being as worthless as some others in this list
@@lostmnt I’m gonna be honest, I’ve never seen anyone use that move in a combo before and players often go for the B&B combos
@@jaidora yeah, its much rarer, since razzle does not help with his main buttons like the jabs and f434. I legit Just know this because i always do combo trials aand tutorials
As a Raiden main since forever, Razzle Dazzle has to be thee worst move he’s ever had. Like what gives? No damage, no set up, nothing. Literally nothing. The only cases where you could properly use that move is either the EX version with a Kameo or, in corner combos. Forward 2 2 4 + Razzle Dazzle into standing 2 4 2 works + EX Shocker works as a corner combo. But the thing is…why do that when I can get more damage from other things?
Imo, that’s one move I definitely think NRS needs to actually get rid of. It does nothing. They’ve been adding things to characters and Raiden needs to get this checked out.
Blocks so hypothetical you could call it string theory
@@lmaobox4068 LMAO thats an amazing line 😂😂😂
Lovely editing, far better than most videos of this kind, even from far bigger channels, great work!
Smoke needs his actual smoke bomb and his his smoke cloud back.
Bro , the smoke's bomb Is the Best armor in the game with general Shao , even It doesn't hit u , Let u to make a reset or combo
@@Mavado_Catolico Smoke's armor is actually one of the worst in the game. Its really easy to trigger it and then still be able to block and punish it. And if you expect his armor, you can just antiair it before he can hit you after the teleport. Theres no guess or mindgame, its one of the most unsafe and slow armor moves lol
@@AwesomeBRINKS which worst , really Is a kind or sento or reset beacuse u cant see him even he has overhead, low AND combo
I wouldn't have put honorable mentions in this video off the fact you could've easily made a Part 2 video and used those entries for that list 👍🏻.
@@AmiriHipHop honestly I was back and forth, but wasn't sure i had enough entries for a 2nd part, and since I didn't spend very long on them, I could still probly use them and just elaborate more if i do make a 2nd part, assuming I get enough moves with the DLC to fill another list of 10 lol
I actually laughed a few times watching this, and the production quality is really good. Def just got a sub from me
Smoke being no. 1 is crazy when Reptile's enhanced invisibility exists.
What? A lot of high level Reptiles use ex invisibility.
Reptile's whole invincibility is a joke, even standard one
I'm sorry, but Honeybee cmndr would like a word😆
Faster invis. Fallings Fangs EX into cancel still better tho. Temp invis and has armor
IIRC standard invis had the same time current EX does but it was nerfed for EX to exist… bruh
Reptile, and smoke invis are not bad moves lol
I think Kung Lao's f4 deserves to be here. Terrible start up, and is super unsafe. There is almost no reason to ever use this unless your opponent is giving birth. His f3 string is also pretty bad compared to other characters who have the exact same move but better like Liu kang and Scorpion.
video so good I stopped halfway through it to get something to eat while watching it
so glad to see this kinda content getting made! this kind of sloppy game design really is a problem. when I pick up a new fighting game, the first thing I usually do to decide on a main is run through the roster writing off every character that has a tool that just seems totally pointless, and often times that just about halves the characters I have to pick out of
I’m a sub zero main and literally the only time ice ball is viable is if you’re trying to play mind games with a much better zoner at distance.
Or from very niche kameo uses.
Even them, the ice scales so much that it's not worth it to use in combos
You’d be surprised how much that nitara move works 😂😂😂
I use it a lot and I see it used alot
@@ROCBOI-wr3uh I don’t play her but that shit probably works on me every time 😂😂
@@KoolSocietyFilms it actually seems decent with Ferra, and F4 at least seems like a good gap closer so im sure if you just mash the full F434 string, it'll catch people more often than Sub's ice ball at least lol
That nitara move against a opponent when you have bad ping is a literal cheat code
Lol I feel attacked on the Nitara kick I love that thing😂😂
It's one of those "Surely, they're not going to do that AGAIN, right?" right before they do it again
At least there are less useless moves than in MK11
U definitely put in alot of effort for this one. Good stuff
@@Mk_Bowzer I had an actual blast making and editing this, so im really glad its noticeable to people and that people are enjoying it!! So thank you very much!!
Raidens razzle dazzle allows you to combo without meter off of his f224 in the corner. It’s his best option off of f224 in the corner especially since you can use meter later in the combo if you choose. Great list though nice vid
@@kamerongarrett4555 I think I had that in one of my clips for that section, but didn't realize that it was actually a viable use for it lol. Thats kinda neat. It almost makes it more annoying that its a 0 damage move.
But thank you for the correction and the kind words!
@@AwesomeBRINKS also when raiden has full charge you can use it to make razzle dazzle -5 safe on block!
@@kamerongarrett4555 Yup! I mentioned that part in my video at least. One of my practice partners mentioned it after I had already recorded the voice-over and edited most of the section so I had to go back and add in that part lmao
Honestly ive found more use of sub zero's ice ball than his ground freeze 🤣
Subs Ice ball made me very sad. He hasn't been all that great since MKX IMO
You forgot Baraka's overhead special "Air Blade Sparks". I still have yet to find any use for it and i never see ANYONE use it online lol
Fr Baraka has a few useless moves. Like f44 and f2 lmao
Havik main here, i can count on one hand the amount of times ive used that kick, and i can count on a mutilated hand the amount of times its landed
As a Raiden main, I’m glad to hear people saying he needs some sort of buffs. He’s been getting nerfed since the beginning of the game.
I personally main Ermac sometimes. I like that back 3 because it’s a “get off me” move. If reptile or reiko or whoever else is running toward you, you simply do that so they can back up. You can also do it if they’re trying to get a bit closer or they hit from too far away, you hit them with it. As for the opponent being too far, If they zone from far away, you teleport behind them. It’s quite viable in my experience
8:53 WITH EXTRA DIP
As a Havik main, I get caught by Subs ice ball more than I'd like to admit. Seeking Neoplasm does not beat ice ball, and Ill be sure to remember that one day.
Great video, love how it's informative, but also with a great humor, like asking NRS more and more concerning questions as the list moves on 😂
Voicing numbers with the corresponding characters' AI voices is also a nice touch, i liked it.
@@CoolSaver thank you very much! I appreciate that a lot! I had a lot of fun making it and structuring the asking NRS sections like I was getting progressively more concerned or frustrated was what i was tryna convey so I'm glad it showed through! Though I forgot to add a version for number 1, but I guess my Smoke rant probly sufficed lol
And I was worried people would be super against the AI voices for that, but I've only seen a couple comments that really had a problem with it. I thought it'd just add a neat extra flair to the transitions so thats nice to hear you felt that way too haha. Thank you for the support!
Some of these moves are understandably mistakes, as in you could see what NRS might’ve been trying to do. Everyone makes mistakes. But some of these are so bad its actually mind boggling I can’t even defend them. Great breakdown in this video, you clearly put effort into labbing before you made your decisions, great editing, funny commentary. You earned a new sub
You should make a "most boring characters to play" I'd like to see your thoughts on that.
havik he's so cool looking but his combos are horrible
sub zero just the slow moves and no style in combos
lao is easily top 3 most boring characters.
that's my top 3
@@tbgtabiasHavik is pretty fun to play tho but yeah Lao is boring asf and don’t forget about Tanya
Lao,Tanya and Raiden
@@mekk96 prior to this patch, Lao, Tanya, and probly Scorpion would have been on my list. I actually really like Havik, but his combo routes weren't as cool. Now he feels amazing to play, and Tanya is slightly more interesting. But my list would still probly be her, Lao, and Scorp lol. I find Scorp's more defensive play style to be boring, and he doesn't seem to have a large amount of combo routes which isn't as interesting to me
Ay man, just realized i had my notis set to “personalized” for some reason 😭. Thats why i couldn’t see when u uploaded lol. Vid didn’t disappoint man! Also i’d like to claim the fact that i was the one who told u phasing through even existed, it was on a live i remember this well lol. U were so shocked to see it. Banger as usual man 🔥🔥🤙🏻🤙🏻
The way your tone and inflection changes when talking about Geras shows this move actually pisses you off lmaoo
Omg my chest hurts with the hypothetical plus frames XDD
@@drakevandoom LOL its actually so funny to think about it like that. I was dying making that graphic at the end of the Mileena section thinking about how many of those values actually are 100% hypothetical lmao
Forget one move per character, we can make a whole video longer than this on just useless moves that smoke has
@@razorfgc LMAO dude for sure. Justin literally was just saying that to me like an hour ago 😂
I feel like people dont realize that this games variation system IS the kameos. They basically gives you more specials to do more with your character. and sometimes, specific movies literally only exist to get a kameo extention. Just like some how in past games some moves dont do anything except finish a basic combo and be done unless you have a variation to combo with. Because of how different every single one of these kameos are, some characters are going to have throw away move s that only work with some kameos to make sure that if your using that kameo because you want to, you have options. Thats why you can only pick one kameo. Its a give and take. Pick this kameo for this move an dthis strength, at the cost of this other move and this other strength.
Ice ball works fine as a zoning tool. If it was fast it would be broken. if it froze for longer it would be broken. Its exactly what it needs to be. Not all characters, in fact most dont have a teleport, so if you fire that from mid screen they have to respect it because if they get hit by it with a trade you get full combo.
Nitaras string can literally be comboed off of by Janet, mavado or ferra. You yourself say it works off of ferra. Sometimes moves have one purpose? This isnt even a kind of new thing. Literally the past 3 games have had that.
A safe on block one button, with kameo meterless combo starter? Thats amazing. What are you talking about
If you use meterless timestop and use fan lift or teleport or something that allows you to combo meterlessly from timestop, do that, use it. The application is there. if you do an air combo then extend with kameo and use the meterburn thing and go right up to them, you can apply pressure with unsafe moves for free
This is so far the only one I will somewhat agree with you on, but really? You can't use flawless block punishable as an argument when its a single move. You push that, they wont see it coming, they cant block other attacks, its a one move thing. Its never going to get flawless blocked. Yeah the move is pretty useless but thats not an argument
for sindel see the first thing I said. Some moves have to be open ended so if the player decides to pick a different kameo then they can. Its giving you options. Would you rather every character have specific kameos and the character just isn't playable without them?
I will grant that tanyas move is useless. its an unnecessary route. Fair
I will also grant that mileenas thing is dumb
Non ex razzle dazzle is pointless. Meter burn isn't. It restands, and sets up for kameo with pre stated gravity. So no if you hit it even at the end of the combo, you can combo off it with a kameo. Thats really good.
Raidens basic combo is literally a reset. its to throw them to the other side to get a neutral reset so throw projectiles. Thats useful, if you dont know why, idk what to tell you buddy.
kitanas two hit string can be combos off of with kameos.
smokes air combo not better than the main one but you could still use it. Would you rather they only give you one choice?
smokes side switch you can throw out mavados otg which would shove them fully into the corner where as the other side switches push you too far out so they wouldnt be in the corner.
As a Geras player, I usually use the hour glass-sand storm as a way to set up a pressure situation with the Motaro flurry of lazers, but you are right, Geras has already so many other ways to use meter that it's tough to save meter specifically to get this move out. Either way it's nice to have the option.
I’ve always found Kung Lao’s F4 to be really terrible. The only time I’ve ever seen anyone use it is on accident and on block or whiff you are stuck for ages watching Lao breakdance on the floor.
For a character as solid as he is, i kinda like that he has a doodoo move with some swagger.
Haha I get this was only an honorable mention..But I actually use Kitana’s B14 in the corner. D1 jails into it and if it’s block, you’re plus frames right in their face and if it hits, Movado kombo.
Cool list though. Interesting.
I don't understand the talk about smoke, I absolutely love smoke and he seems kinda busted
But the side switch combo is definitely useless
Hypothetical plus frames😂😂😂😂😂. What did I just see? Never noticed it before
Man, you put so much passion in this video, every number have the actual character talking, congratulations, love that :)
@@junior14536 Thank you so much!! I'm really glad it shows. I had a blast making this and it is definitely my proudest video so far. Getting cloned AI voices and then spamming the generate button until I had a voiceline that actually sounded really close to the character took way longer than it should have but im really happy with how it came out and its sick that other people are into it too so thanks! :)
i really dig your editing style and the knowledge you seem to have on most (if not all) of the characters. ez sub
The few instances that Bi-Han is worse than Kuai Liang as Sub-Zero. His classic ice ball 😂
@@RevenantZer0 LOL you are not wrong 😂
First time watching a video of your and it was great! Awesome job 🙌
@@aaronfigueroa484 Welcome! And thats awesome to hear, thank you so much for saying that!! I had a blast making it!
There are so many things that make absolutely no sense to me with Raiden’s character design, move list and nerfs/buff. SMH.
@@DGolden94 he's a weird one for sure. And definitely got way over nerfed. All he needed was for poke into storm cell to get toned down. Idk why they destroyed so many other aspects of his kit
So happy to hear someone else say buff Smoke. Character has been struggling in the meta since launch lol
16:28 raiden sounds like this emoji👽
Reptile’s enhanced invisibility is worse then all of these lmao
Mk11 Kung Lao could have a whole vid dedicated to his useless moves
That last part about the basic punching and kicking speaks to me a lot. You imagine these characters as very powerful beings that bend the elements and stuff but then, they sure do a lot of basic punching and kicking for half their moveset don't they? MK should get more creative with their normals, honestly
That Nitara kick combo can be useful for catching opponents off guard. The move covers a decent amount of space useful to rush down an opponent. True, it's not high damage, but there's strategy in it.
Raiden main . Razzle dazzle is ok for stopping a throw
And the recovery on ermacs s3 is absurd
Great list, they have been adding new moves to the characters which is nice, but, it's about time they start revisiting some moves. Wasn't aware of the Mileena string condition, which is wild.
Thank you for putting into words all of the issues with Geras Amp Sandstorm. Honestly just give geras low Sand Trap back as the amp version, it wouldn't be as spammable and would give him a real projectile for the zone war. 5% projectile is pain
Yoo glad to see you back here man. Hope to see you active for the dlc. Would love to see what you make.
God I forgot how naturally funny you are I kept laughing so much in this video
@@wren8253 Yo whats up! I've definitely got plans for the DLC/this patch. The 2 videos I've got on the backburner that I've started scripting are a beginner Noob Guide/Combo Structure(more like my Ermac one than my Smoke and Sub ones) and a Smoke/Sektor updated synergy guide, because he's just amazing with the buffs they keep giving him.
I would like to do guides for Havik and Cyrax as well, and more Kameo Klasses, and i have some more entertainment focused vids like this i wanna do in between guides. So I've definitely got a lot in my brain and I appreciate your support and kind words immensely!
I had a blast editing this and planning some of the sarcasm and jokes, so it always makes my day to hear when people enjoyed them!!
@@AwesomeBRINKS wooo awesome to hear man
So glad I found your channel 🤘🏻
Great work
When i was playing raiden, i believe i had learned from a guide to use that move for anti air. Of they crossed you up, you'd get shocker, and if they stayed on the same side, they'd pop up with that move.
My goat has uploaded once again. Tuesday will be fun 💪
@@grittytenacious6004 Yes sir. And forreal, I actually can't wait. Its gonna be like Christmas in MK
I could at least understand if Phasing Through was mega plus on hit allowing for crazy oki, but it's trash as it is.
@@iamthenati forreal, its so bad lmao. I forgot to mention the hit advantage but im pretty sure all his specials have similar or better hit advantage than phasing through as well. I'd love to ask NRS what they intended for us to do with that move lmao
@@AwesomeBRINKS 17:24 how to activate that Raiden's passive buff? Btw, great and funny video man
@@Justme-vz4px Thank you very much, im glad it was enjoyable!!
And it activates after Raiden takes a certain amount of chip damage in a round. Which is super random and its bizarre that he's one of the only characters with a passive mechanic like that lmao
@@AwesomeBRINKS more than enjoyable lmaoo. Thanks, but what actually this buff does?
love the vid🤣… AND YES BUFF SMOKE
Dope, loved it, a part 2 with the rest of the cast would be epic ❤
@@CruiseshipcarlHell yea thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed! And if I can find 10 more horrible moves and come up with enough interesting things to say about them then I will definitely make a part 2! I've definitely got plenty to choose from with Smoke and Raiden. And like 1/4 of my comments are giving me shit for not picking Lao F4 so I might be able to with the DLC lol
@@AwesomeBRINKS don't forget kameos
Subzero's back-forward+2 is the special move meant to be abused. Faster start up, hits mid and can win a lot of projectile wars. Wanting his freeze to also be O.P. as a projectile shows a lack of understanding and a desire to play brain dead.
6:15 actually made me choke on my drink, I wish I could play fighting games for this alone
Ive actually used that ermac move you showed in the beging as a long rang anti air. Works pretty well really.
Geras' delayed sand trap just feels like they wanted to redo the delayed ground shake that aftershock Tremor had in mkx and somehow made an absolutely atrocious alternate version of it
I love this guy now
The Razzle Dazzle for Raiden does damage on the console version of the game, and I use it for corner combos.
I'm a Sindel main, I was so offended you'd say she has a useless move cause most of her moves are kinda great. Then you showed the move and I was like "oh yeah, I forgot she has that"
In the year I've been playing her now, I can't remember using it a single time lmao
As a geras player, the close ex sandtrap is occasionally useful if ur backed up against the corner. But generally, yea its prettt useless. In invasions npc Geras' sandtrap always tracks the opponent for some reason. They should implement that for the main character. It would force u to block and lead to pressure opportunities.
Raiden's Razzle Dazzle is actually pretty good for 1 (one) specific combo in the corner. If you start with F224 and then Razzle Dazzle you can extend the combo and allows a 242 into Shocker (if you get the timing right, you can hit a 2 in the air and then 242). It deals considerably more damage than just going F224 into Shocker.
lao f4 robbed. At least nitara gets usage from her best kameo atm which is ferra. Lao f4 is 100% a troll move
@@simplydolgoruky1018 I considered it and maybe could have put it in honorable mentions if I hadn't already chosen 3 others, but my reasoning was Lao F4 at least causes a crumple, and I was unsure if there were maybe some weird kameo routes that could make that actually semi worth using for a combo or something due to the unique hit effect. But I can see why so many people are surprised I didn't include it lol
I'll probly do a part 2 of this list eventually and it'll be a main contender in that case probly
YO BUFF SMOKE💨
I made this comment on another video talking about Raiden's db2, it has a lot more use than people think:
Db2 jails after his best neutral check button, which is his d4, on block. If you space out your d4 and cancel into db2, you essentially get a safe poke special mind game against 99% of the game because it will be un-punishable from that distance. From max range no one can punish it, not even Johnny’s reversal shadow kick. If they try to press after the d4 and get hit, db2 is +21 so you can dash up and jail a s1 even from max distance. You can also use it as a standing reset because of the plus frames if you don’t have bar or your kameo available for a combo extension. It’s also 10f startup so you can actually punish some pokes and other specials with pushback, and if you pair him with someone like Mavado or Scorpion for example, you can combo off the EX version if you do get a punish for decent damage. On top of the synergy with his passive buff and the fact that you can use it for meterless conversions in the corner as well, db2 is actually not even Raiden's most useless move as a character. Talking strictly special moves, sure. But his f2-1 string serves far less of a purpose than db2 does
Bro Lao’s forward 4 is soo useless 😭
“Buff Smoke” ….while he does a 61% combo 😂😂
9:12 i genuinely haven’t seen that move since the trailer. I forgot it existed 😂
As a havik main his standing 4 is pretty good. If you're mixing in the corner or your opponent knows that 21 is safe you can throw that kick out to stagger. A lot of people don't know that's a safe move and will assume they can hit after. Works good too for a combo ender. it's not something that is used a lot but it makes him more random too which is what havik is made for.
This is what id do for the hour glass move for geras: For still one bar, he will create the hour glass above his opponents head no matter what distance you choose, with two frames cut off the start up and the recovery cut to 58 instead of 75. The hour glass will track the opponent’s movement until the sandstorm tigger’s, the trigger time is the same 2.6 seconds or whatever, however the tracking of the hourglass is not super fast it moves at a walking speed type pace dashing or teleporting away will get your out of it most likely if you time it right, or fast dashing moves or combos that move across the screen quickly. But for block presser this will be nice and if they happen to punish you and it doesn’t have alot of “fast” screen travel distance, they will get hit out of there combo freeing you.
What’s funny is that in invasions, ex sandstorm on geras tracks the opponent, forcing them to be mindful of it even if geras is hit out of it
What I’ve learned is they seem useless but when you’re in an awkward position it’s sometime the only thing that works , a lot of moves duck under or go over like haviks kick punish that’s highly punishable , it jumps over many lows
Loved the video. I hope NRS see it and do something about it. I agree with almost everything. Just Raiden’s db2 is not useless. It is a poke punish. It got nerfed unfortunately, for no reason because no one was using it before. But it was punishing any -9 move to get a huge turn. With kameos you can combo. But they nerfed it and now you can only punish -10 moves. Like ermac’s d4 for example.
So it is not completely useless. It should go back to the original version imo.
These are my thoughts for each of listed moves, some I think are fine to exist if they give you space or block advantage but buffing them might be a better solution.
Sub Zero: yeah I wish it was a little more faster. Maybe 35 frames and 32 frames with meter (a larger size hit box would also be fine in my opinion) otherwise everyone will be spamming it even more.
Nitara: probably used for chip damage, being -8 with a little more pushback wouldn’t hurt. She’s already good right now so if that move gets a special cancel opportunity then that would be too good.
Havik: Honestly I forgot what his S4 is. If it’s a mid then that’s fine but it’s also Havik so maybe they intentionally gave him a bad button.
Geras: Doesn’t that move track the opponent? It could have a different property based on how many hourglass charges you have?”, something to wish for.
Ermac: could just be a poking move, maybe or hopefully it gets a brutality. Having a faster start up would also be nice.
Sindel: honestly might just be for kameo set up. It should have more pushback though.
Tanya: no idea. Maybe the very rare instance where the opponent ducks the first hit so the second hit catches them off guard but that’s still bad.
Mileena: just make it special cancel into any air special or causes the opponent to bounce.
Raiden: should be +4 on block and have a brutality on the meter version.
Smoke: The only way to save that string is by making it a true mid command grab.
I think I said this in your "Buffs Wishlist" vid but if Ex Vicious Vapors was not only faster but also made Smoke shift backward, it would be such a good mindfuck tool because you could follow up with b2 or Smoke Bomb.
@@BlackXSunlight Having smoke-away would be so amazing actually. Whether thats a new move, or a cancel that only works from the EX version of the move, it would be awesome.
As a Tanya main, it's totally true. I never use Back 2 4. Not even for fun, just never found a use for it. I guess I don't mind so much as she has so many good tools any way but it would be nice if the string had some kind of use.
on Geras - several cameos like Motaro or Khameleon can actually mitigate the recovery factor, btw with the last this move can actually become a big threat
i would love to see the opposite of this list
Sindels b23 isnt as useless, its great to end longer combos after a lot of gravity has been used because the bounce after the dive will almost always combo into db4, FB, etc. Comboing with a kameo after b3, 244, b232 uses more gravity then normal and using b23>ender will be guaranteed and give the most damage when f43 drops
Not mentioning KungLmao’s hiphop kick is a sin
@@nguyenminhat9374 lol I probly could have mentioned it in honorable mentions, but my justification was that it at least does something unique with the crumple hit effect, and figured maybe there's some weird kameo combo route with him where its usable in that role, so I couldn't justify putting it fully on the list. But I can understand why you feel that way lol
@@AwesomeBRINKS hahaha indeed, thats move is such a meme. I like it but cant use it
Tbh, if the sand trap thing was safe to set up after a combo or something it could be an interesting mix up tool
What ai do you use to get the characters to say the numbers?
This is true with Mileena as I main her , I remember practicing the hell outta her with that move just to relise its useless online. You hve to hit for it to come out aha
Interesting discussion, but I want to draw attention to the work done by the author to create this video, it is impressive. 😮😮😮
@@СЕРГЕЙ_МАРКОВ_26 i had a blast making it and I really appreciate you saying that, thank you!! I put a ton of effort in and its really cool to hear that you can tell
9:55 killed me 😂😂😂