Nightmare Consumer Unit Change... Electrician Life
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Nightmare Consumer Unit Change... Electrician Life
Join me as I do an consumer unit change where everything goes wrong...
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Not Bundy 10 then lol
5% Discount .... really? Much prefer the Bundy 10 as per Ryans reply ... lol.
Should have just moved the main switch to the left side of the board 😃
I have noticed they mostly have the main switch to the right. Is it standard in UK? In Sweden we always have it to the left as first switch
@@obi_the_president different brands have different way of doing it. But you coild easily move stuff about if needed.
Don’t think you can with this due to the live terminal being on the left on the DP isolator
@@scotty2hottyltd does it actually matter, both terminals are rated to 100a.
So many times I've done a job thinking that part should take about 20 min, 3 hours later, wish I just cut a hole in the wall and filled it 😂
I always tell a customer you can pay for an EICR or you can pay £65 per hour for fault finding if you don’t. I’m not on site to rectify your problems for free because your to tight to pay for an EICR beforehand.
Ellis The DJ then do the EICR & you will have the ability to see what work is required & the cost involved to rectify any faults.
My point is if you don’t want to pay for a test and you have been warned of the cost fault finding. Then you choose to go ahead & take punt that all will be good, then on your head be it. Don’t for a second think I’m going to suffer the cost of your short sightedness.
Spot on pal
Ellis The DJ you seem to be missing the point. Your budget is your problem not mine ,we don’t work for free. If your new ccu has half it’s circuits isolated because they have faults in them what then!. Are you expecting someone to spend hours free of charge sorting out your dodgy diy wiring.
Pay for an EICR or suffer the consequences of the cost implications that a faulty installation will incur. We are businesses not charity for the tight of fist or short of sight.
When an EICR is requested, which is now my bread and butter lately because of the new landlord legislation introduced, I will always check if the CU has full RCD protection and has a non-combustible enclosure. Good selling points. Also check smoke/heat alarms for compliance/sell by date. Will always offer to sort these things out first before doing the EICR to prevent having to charge the customer twice for doing the testing
@Ellis The DJ
The installation requires testing and inspecting at some point during this work so it makes sense to carryout prior to riping everything out as Jordan has bravely demonstrated.
I'm not an Electrician but I can see you have put the time and effort into this job. Well done.
Thanks
If you have sds plus drill with hammer only, then use a mortar rake to cut out a brick to give access to the cavity,sometimes it is the easiest & only way to pull awkward tails through,seen them snagged on wall tie,then it's a easy job to replace brick afterwards.
BS7671 no cables to be run down the cavity of a building
To be fair, you've done the right thing with the tails. Tails through a cavity these days with the potential of existing thermal insulation or thermal insulation being added later is always a concern. Turned out a good job and you're a trooper hanging back to sort the fault finding etc.
Hi Jordan, a very quick test I always do before I change a board is an earth leakage test on the tails with the Amcal tester. If the reading is off the scale I don’t take on the job as you don’t know what you’re getting into. I’m aware it’s not a foolproof method but it’s cut my headaches down massively. Also to do an EICR before a fuseboard change is a good idea but in my opinion I don’t know how many customers will be prepared to pay for it.
We should at least do a risk assessment the on cert covers board change only and on comments recommend an EICR for the rest of the installation
I did similar once with the tails and main switch, from then on I always picked a board that had the switch on what ever side it was on the existing board. But then always carried Tri rated cables and cord end so i could switch it around if needed. most guys these days don't use the labels that come with the boards anyway. most print there own. so no really issue. It was a good effort tho. Defo Eicr before a board change tho. The problem is you try to be competitive with the price and do an Eicr first. But Mr cheap and cheerful from the Pub comes in under cuts you and you lose out. Then the works done, not tested no cert. And all because its down to price and not the standard of the work.
Well done Jordan for showing when it doesn’t go to plan. I feel your pain. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing your experience.
That feeling you get when you pull the old board to bits then think why did i say I'd do the job
wigwamer 😂
That's why by regulation you always 100 % inspect and test installation first, only a fool goes in blind(unless you have quoted their inheritance)
Hi Jordan, just read the huge amount of comments saying all the different options that you should have done, however, your no.1 priority was to please the customer (regarding the tails) and for that I salute you. Most would of given up, but you continued with this in mind. A truly helpful channel for which I enjoy your delivery and content. As for the main switch, it's easy to criticise afterwards, however, you solved the problem on the day and we are ALL learning something new, irrespective of years on the tools.
Great video! Massive respect for sticking with it and trying to get to the best solution for the customer with the tails rather than just telling them it couldn't be done not a lot of electricians would have.
Thanks 😊
I really felt for you Jordan... An EICR beforehand is definitely the way to go from now on mate.
An eicr wouldnt of established that he couldnt pull new tails in
@@ericthekingthekingtheking4842 I was more thinking about the high end to end resding on the ring and the short circuit fault on the lighting circuit to name a few.
Ashman Electrical Services
An eicr isnt needed before a board change in my opinion,even if he did an eicr then he would of put the high end to end in his report so still would have to rectify it at board change stage !! It was the 4 hours on the tails that killed the job
No an experienced electrician would tell you that.
What was the IR tester you were using Jordan?
And thats why sparks are "King Of Trades" 1st in last out and get the most sh*t. Love the vids. a+++++
I'm pretty sure plumbers get the most shit...
Hi, been there, l know not good but at least you have the satisfaction of leaving the installation in a safe condition. Keep up the good work and stay safe.
well done that man! Testing the electrician to the max, I agreed about doing an EICR first before going into the board change, nowadays you can't get away with just changing a fuse board, things have moved on..
Hi Jordan well done , it’s never an easy task changing the meter tails. So you’re use of trunking was the best way to go. Pulling and tugging on cables can cause damage to them which can’t be seen inside the cavity . Hind sight is a wonderful thing, anyone watching this video who is an electrical contractor will have spent time in a similar fashion. The main thing is you succeeded, and got the supply back on . There’s plenty of so-called electricians that come 5 would have said , sorry mate I’m off now see you tomorrow. 😂 Best wishes from Mike in the U.K. 👍
Knowing our "meterkast" metercloset in the Netherlands I am shocked every time a UK consumer unit is randomly found in the house wherever the installer thought it looked nice.
Distance from the front door
Measurements
Water on the bottom
Gas in the middle
Electric on top
The same thing I was thinking!
Don't forget Coax, Telephone and Fiber in newer houses. Older houses have them on a random place in the living room.
Also, the use of PVC-pipes makes changing wires a lot easier.
It’s why you get work and customers call u back , most would tell them you need a eicr first at cost ..but you have gone ahead. Hoping it would be ok and it has not been but you showed the customer that whatever the problem you can solve it . And I bet he was happy and he will use you again I learned that lesson years ago sometimes you have to give a little to gain a lot ...
Aw Jordan, we all get those days, at least you made the effort and made sure it was done right, fair play! These are the days that remind you how lucky you are on the days things actually go to plan! Keep up the good work!
So true! Thanks
it's a small point, but I'm glad you installed a consumer unit where the cover flap opens upwards; as soon as I saw the original unit, I had visions of the door slamming and breaking the cover because it swung down into the arc of the door
On the bright side the spark who does the condenser is going to love that trunking
Couldn't one just slide the main switch to the other end of the din rail so the existing tails would reach and fit the breakers from the other end
Live would then be on the wrong side for the bus bar connection.
Jordan what a nightmare of a job, hate jobs like that, my head would start going. Hope u had a nice beer after when u got home
Yeah I had McDonalds on the way home and a whiskey before bed! 👌
@Ellis The DJ no no no he had whiskey ¡
Did you stop for lunch? Those jobs are my worst nightmare too. I have used a arbasaw to cut a brick out to access the wall cavity. Total ballache. How come you weren't spitting with fury by the end of that and still filming! Unbelievable patience.
I felt your pain watching this video! I've also learnt the hard way doing board changes and this is why I do it in two stages which is explained clearly to the customer. Doing it this way has saved me tons and tons of hassle.
well done Jordon these jobs crop up and test you from time to time! EICR 1st is always a great step but doesn't always work out, tidy job mate
Why didnt just slide the main switch to the other side of the board and swap the neutral lead and busbar over?
seems the most logical choice......could also have used crimp links and heat shrink... dont over think jobs!
I've had a quick look online to check whether to BS EN 60947-3 requires the line to break before neutral and neutral to make before line (neutral early make late break). I know the big Eaton Glasgow disconnectors operate like that and they're designed to comply with BS 60947-3, but does that also apply to the main switches we use in consumer units? That would cause a problem with swapping it from one side of the busbar to the other.
westinthewest great point thanks
@@westinthewest As I understand it, when operating an isolator like a main switch all load I.e. circuit breakers should already be turned off, therefore main switches are not designed to make or break current if used correctly.
exacly my toughts :-) But that would been to easy it seems :p I'm left handed i always seem to work form left to right . :-)
You are a perfectionist and thats rare these days in trades, i would happily pay over the odds to have someone who wont cut corners, nice work!
Nice Job. I used to always continue the trunking to the floor, makes it nicer on the eye and over time blends in.
A bad day. Unfortunately there are elements of the unknown with some jobs. But you over come them, well done sir.
Good job Jordon. I know the feeling of taking down an old consumer and then getting stuck when circuits start to trip. Agree with your comments always good to do EICR before hand to determine faults. Anyway keep up the good workmanship. 👍👍👍
Thanks!
Well done 👏 been on a few jobs like that myself because I never like to be beaten, keep up the good work you do, to many tradesmen have no pride in their work.
if the mainswitch can not be moved to the left , some can some cant...i used to crimp on extra length using 25mm through crimps and heatshrink them...if asked to do a consumer unit change, i always used to, when going to have a look for the estimate, shove my megger on the old one, to make sure no Lto E and Nto E faults...as otherwise you can be there for double the time tracing faults...i used to price for the board change only, then hourly rate for tracing faults....otherwise you can be well out of pocket.
Preparation , preparation , preparation.
Why on Earth didn’t you investigate first as opposed to just turning up on the day to do a quick board change.
5p’s old fella
preparation prevent piss poor performance!!! love it
I completely felt in your late working ours.
My situation yesterday was also the same. I changed old mcb board and it looked like an easy job. Customer is about to get new meter box, solar panels etc. So the board upgrade was neccessary. I only got problem after problem finally finished the job on Sunday 2:00 AM because it was to far to drive on another day plus the custumer wpuld be left without electricity for whole sunday. I was 18 hours on my feet on this job but the end effect was perfect. Good job !
i thought that was ambitious , but fair play for trying chap.
😂
EICR prior to carrying out CU change is a must, as you've just proved.
Apart from highlighting the faults and non- conformities it would have given you more time to assess the installation and work out a solution for the new tails install.
As I'm sure we all know, try to cut corners and at some point it will bite you!!
Well done for showing the necessity of prior planning a lesson for us all👍
Funny how the problem is always found at the last place you check.
Yep 🤦♂️
R.D. That's why you stop, you found it! Therefore the problem is always found at the last place you look.
I think sods law in this context means that it is the last conceivable or most difficult place you could have looked is where you find the fault (after having tried the easier and more obvious places first)
that's the trouble when you the job you never know how will take you over all good work fantastic finish.
I hate it when a plan doesn't come together. It is what it is. Been there done that. Way to hang in there. Nice job.
Shame man. I feel for you. I am a plumber and have been in this situation plenty of times. Great videos. Keep em coming
Why so much problems and effort with the tails and the position of the main switch? You can reconfigure the board and move the main switch from the right to the left side, that's the easiest way. It doesn't affect any rating or certification of the board. The main switch sitting on the hat rail (or as it's called in the UK: DIN rail), so you can move it. The surge protection completely to the left, than the main switch, then the different circuits and at last the covers for the spares. So the board would be mirror-inverted.
Here in Germany all boards come empty, the electrician buys the stuff separatly and customize the board to the customers requirements. That's the reason you see boards here sometimes with MCBs, RCDs or RCBOs in there which are from a different manufacturer than the board is. For example Hager board with ABB devices.
but the little L and N on the terminals will be the wrong way round! :D
They had all those pipes going down the wall next to the consumer unit you wouldn't have thought they'd mind having the cable in a conduit. If you'd put it nearer the other pipes they could have boxed the whole lot in.
Nice job at the end after all that hassle, I get pissed off if Im on-site after 3
I felt foryouon this one, definitely know how this feels. I had a few late ones doing CU changes myself.
RESPECT for not giving up.
Good work
with regards to the meter tails entering from the left i have before now swapped the main switch over from the right to the left hand side as there is no polarity on the main switch . I always print a label off so doesn't matter which way around they go
i too have done this in the past, Also there are some companies like MCG that make fuseboards with LHS main switch (not a fan of MCG fuseboards but needs must)
The fuseboard is certified to have the main switch position on the right hand side though, by modifying it does it not put it out of manufacturers spec?
@@lewis94uk i cant see it makes any difference, i tend to use Control gear(lewden)there split boards go both ways which i alter and run one direction
Always useful to check the side of the mains switch, before buying a consumer unit. Wouldnt need to run new tails at all then.
Always do EICR before board change that way you know problems like tails on wrong side. How about moving main switch to the left?
Could you have placed an isolator near the old tales and moved the C.U across slightly, then done away with trunking altogether, then just extended the tales from that.
I was thinking similar even with an extra main switch on the left if there was space?
That or an accessible Henley block in a neat adaptable box.
Existing tails into a henley block, then new Flexi's from henley block into the board.
He could have done, but probably didn't want a Henley Block on show next to his nice new board
Make a small access panel in the ceiling then Henley block in the ceiling?
I'd of henley blocked inside the board, sorted
Good planning is everything in carrying out any piece of work, but you can often not foresee the difficulties which you eventually face.
I feel your frustration in trying to do the best for your client, and you produced an effective result, because I have been there many times in the course my work as a registered Electrician. Let no one be in any doubt that you have to be properly qualified to undertake this profession.
You have to have the mental capacity to think on the spot and also do the preparatory calculations and planning, according to the situation, and its use, with a proper regard for the requirements and application of BS7671, the wiring regulations, and the current Building Regulations.
This is not a DIY occupation.
SPDs law something crops up into what could and should be a relatively nice job.
Don’t miss staying in someone’s house till 10pm having to sort issues I didn’t cause.
Great video J.
M8, what a day that was! I've had a few days like that myself. Keep trying to explain to my boss that sometimes things don't always go to plan
As a few have already mentioned, why not just reverse the order of the breakers inside the CU! Fitting them right-to-left from the switch is not a requirement in the regs; it's simply habit/convention. It's like having switches on sockets: nothing in the regs requires it but, sometimes, practice gets so ingrained that the easy option gets overlooked.
Tidy spark pure art from artisan team again 👏
Literally had the same nightmare today. Unfortunately had to extend all the circuits using two adaptable boxes. Only one circuit tripping the rcd.....However I did carryout an EICR before hand? 10AM till 8pm....on a Saturday. Few beers!!!!
Do the house test first before changing the board. If you have issues you can then come back another day . I also brought my boards to suit the position of the main tails. Pre site surveys are Essential.
Great work I so wish that I had a boss like you. I was expected to change a 14 way board upgrade the bonding test everything and fix all the faults all by myself in 8 hours. No time for breaks sometimes working 14 hours with one half hour break. No wonder I had a break down from stress related work .
Could you not just mount the breakers with incoming power on the left side aswell in the new unit?
I'm no electrician but I was thinking the same - can't see the reason the main breaker had to be fitted on the right
They’re not designed to be reversible, cables not long enough from mains switch, L and N terminals would be backwards, lid labels would be backwards etc.
What he probably could have done was pulled slack from the meter cupboard and then Henley blocked inside the cupboard to extend
This is the stuff they can't teach you at college
So true! 😂
What a nightmare, I’ve always done an EICR prior to a board change. It can save you a load of grief.👍🏼
Couldn't see the surprise on your face with that mask when you took the cover off and seen the neat job but I senced it😂😂
Deffo agree, do full test first, never know who has been messing, better to find any issues first so forewarned. Wonder if inner wall either chopped out to install the tails then made good or completed after tails were installed. Nice neat finish.
Great job You did it and replaced the new panel. Very good professional! You found the ceiling fault. it will always be the last fitting when you find the fault. Time you go home before you get a McDonalds. Very funny BIG Thumb up! Cheer!
A quick continuity test between CPC and neutral will quickly identify if there is going to be a problem when introducing an RCD to the circuit. Also, MK for main switches on the left and pretty much everything else for main switch on the right. It's not just the tails you need to extent but also the CPC's and neutrals if they don't have much slack.
Could you have drilled out inside the board and ran flexi tails externally in conduit rather than have that trunking down the wall?
Exactly. So many different ways that this could've been done, and quicker!
I would have got a cu with the tails on the same side as original one ?
Maybe something to think about in the future ?
Not feeling the conduit ,sorry
Another top video.. Nice to see you sharing the issue with eicr before a board change.. I keep saying the same thing.. Absolute nightmare board changes 👍
it will always be the last fitting when you find the fault as you won't find it and then keep looking now, would we?
Yeah so true!
R Jones 😂😂 very true ! Although it may actually be the only light left in the house anyway 😀 then it really is the last one
Cablesmith Electrical ahhhhh yes. You might be right there😂😂
...what if there's more than one fault?
@@TheMrKBG then you are going home very late🤣
Im glad its not just me, I had one of those last week and came to the same conclusion, working with just work lights trying to find an earth the neutral fault after spending all day working is just not work it... EICR before hand, makes changing a consumer unit more expensive.
But at least you would have more of a idea of what your walking into and be a lot more prepared
Thats the problem you end up losing work half the punters will bin you off for £20
He ended up doing half a one anyway by the look of it.
Not if you do the consumer unit change aswell. You can reduce the price for the change because you've already tested the circuits.
Hide it in the ceiling 👍 yesssssss. I am learning so much from these videos. I'm not an electrician but I'll be able to spot a half arsed job when I hire one now. Thank you! Also starting to appreciate the skill in the trade a lot more.
Wow thanks glad you're enjoying the vids!
Ahh the law of the sod.... Good job for sticking it out dude. Probably a good thing the tails wouldn't pull through, not sure they are allowed to flap about in the cavity. :) I'm sure I read somewhere about flappy cables in cavity walls. I could be wrong. Stirling effort Jordan.
Credit due for sticking with it. Regardless of what you charge, the job needs to be done right. You were obviously very open with the client. The tone of his voice suggested he was grateful for your persistence. One question though if you don’t mind...did you include all that extra fault finding work in the quote, or was it charged on top?
I’m a maintenance electrician in industry, but looking to move across to domestic, hence the question 👍
Thanks! I didn’t charge him any extra for all the fault finding work but I would never normally do a consumer unit change without a full EICR beforehand as you can get stung like I did on this one if there are loads of faults. So my general rule is EICR then board charge a week or so later with time in between to quote for any additional remedial work needed after the EICR
Good advice! Thanks for taking the time to reply 👍
when i see your videos i am glad that i live in germany with a 3 phase system and new distribution according to current standard. great videos, thanks for that!
Good video as usual. I'd have been tempted to go out and get a CU with the isolator on the left-hand-side...
Couldn't you just drill a nice large bore hole into the cavity directly from the consumer unit, & fished/rodded them down to a new hole in the meter box?
That looked an absolute nightmare, glad I don't do that shit anymore
Jordan, You could have moved the SPD & main switch to the left the only problem is the length of the neutral to the main bar from the load side of the main switch ( which Hager sells separately), I don't know how flexible the links are compared to the flexible tails you had as you could if practicable used a bit of that if pushed. Sometimes it is best to purse and rethink. IAs Hager is your go-to consumer unit It might be worth a chat with them as this predicament will come upon another C.U. change
Perhaps next time a proper survey of the installation to ascertain the layout of the tails so you can choose a consumer unit to suit the layout? Also a full test of all the circuits first and rectify the problems before you start changing out the consumer unit. Customer has to understand that a good job is not going to be done on the cheap. This is from my perspective as a DIY electrician who has twice changed out consumer units in my own house over the last 30yrs ...... not a job to be tackled lightly!
Wouldn’t it have been easier to get a consumer unit with the main switch on the left hand side? It would have saved all that time and hassle. Did you look at the job before hand? Not trying to pick holes you always do a good job! Just thought it would make your life a lot easier. Even if it’s asking the customer to send a picture of the CU with the lid lifted.
That bad ring connection ... is precisely why rings aren't used anywhere else even in places using 120v circuits. I'd love to know the logic behind the bureaucrat who approved them to be a thing.
I would absolutely agree with you. I’m an Irish contractor and we never use ring mains, all radials! Plus one fault on the circuit doesn’t take out 20 sockets or whatever.
@@grahamlush7140 plus the fact that fault could potentially draw 32amp @ 240V without tripping anything.... scarry to say the least from a Canadian perspective.
love your videos - and great pointers - but yes ALWAYS do an EICR before a board change... that's my takeaway...
A question: On the tails problem, could you have pulled out the main fuse, dropped the live and neutral going into the isolator switch directly into the cut out terminal, then that would have given you about 20-30 centimetres pull on the tails inside the property, and you could have put a new isolator switch INSIDE the building, with the tails from that reaching over to the right side of the new Hager board? Would that have been illegal re-the distributing company, and would it have contravened BS 7671?
Good lesson learned. I’m at the start of my training and having material like this to watch is brilliant and provides helpful advice.
Must admit best to do a eicr first ,you have to do it when you change a board ,so at least when you change the board the customer knows you will have to spend time to find the fault,I did one putting the board up first and like yours one circuit tripped ,the customer said well it was ok with the old board ,and refused to pay the 2 hours I spent finding the fault,glad you got home eventually 👍
Very true!
Next time, work into the evening, stay overnight at a local hotel or bed and breakfast, get a good rest, resume in the morning, finish mid-afternoon, and then go home.
Thru crimp tails and cover with heat shrink. Always check continuity n-e on the lighting as that's a like place for faults stopping RCBO's from setting.
Lol ONE of those days ( stick with the Zappi for a Zappi get away🤣 and a profit lol )
Unlucky mate, just one of those days unfortunately, but you dug deep and pulled through. Good job 👍🏻
Good sport for showing the rough with the smooth mate, I would have been seriously impressed if you had pulled them tails through as you first intended, how did you address that with the customer though? Obviously you must have wanted more money than just the price for db change?
Make life a little easier next time and replace the CU with mains switch at the same end as the existing. I was taught that you test the circuits before you even start thinking about removing the existing CU. Least that way if time runs away because of faults you can always go back knowing the CU changeover will be more straightforward. I guess the 90 minute drive was a factor though to complete it in a day. In your position I'd have had a banging headache by 3pm and the patience of ... well I don't know, just zero patience 😡
Hindsight is a wonderful thing! Nightmare. Thanks for sharing Jordan. 🐵
This used to happen to me too. You never know what you're going to come across. Great work though Jordan 👍
Normally I am a fan of Atrisan Electric but this one it really feels like the wrong consumer unit was fixed to fit in with the sponsor or discount spot.
Surly a new left hand tails entry consumer unit could have been procured that fit in the general spot and avoid the need for that trunking.
"Of course it was the last light fitting that we checked".
Obviously. You wouldn't check beyond that fitting if you found the fault, would you? You'd fix the problem and test again. That's like "oh your keys are always in the last place you looked".
He probably meant the last light fixture on the circuit.
Definitely agree. I won't replace a fuse board unless EICR done first 👍
Did you try dropped to pulling one by one so they were inline instead of as a group.
Nice job I always like to use bootlace ferrules on all my consumer units adds a bit of glamour LOL