Don't fall into the trap of thinking 'All The Gain!' sounds good. Dial in your metal sound with confidence and make sure your audience can hear you with this tutorial. #metaltone #allthegain #csguitars More from CSGuitars: Gain access to exclusive content at: www.patreon.com/csguitars Buy CSGuitars Merchandise - www.csguitars.co.uk/store Website - www.csguitars.co.uk Contact - colin@csguitars.co.uk Affiliate Links: Thomann - www.thomann.de/gb/index.html?offid=1&affid=367 Sweetwater - imp.i114863.net/2mGGg CSGuitars uses: LEWITT Microphones - www.lewitt-audio.com/ Hoffnine Cabinets - www.hoffnine.co.uk/ Hosa Cables - hosatech.com/ Dragon's Heart Guitar Picks - www.dragonsheartguitarpicks.com/ Title graphics and logo by: www.studiosmithdesign.co.uk/ Join the discussion at: Facebook - facebook.com/csguitars Instagram - instagram.com/csguitars/ Twitter -twitter.com/CSG_Scotland Music available at: Amazon: amzn.to/2HUdXgV iTunes: apple.co/2JvpCjp Google Play: bit.ly/2KgSzkl Or stream on Spotify: spoti.fi/2HuYPTP
+Martin Landart On a related note, if you do wish to see some proper Scottish dialect, read original Robert Burns poems. Best laid schemes ... and all that jazz ;)
Having recently witnessed some metal bands where the guitars were completely lost due to super saturated over processed distortion, I decided to address the topic on youtube.
agreed though i don't have that high of mids i use them to a point sort of just short of half way up anyways maybe i should get a tube screamer my friends were telling m e that it was actually boosting the tone of my already good Hughes and Kettner. (however that amp name is spelled its german i guess)
dave hoover Setting EQ on your amp has a lot to do with the room your in as well. The EQ is basically frequency selective volume control. I'm more of a rhythm guitarist at home. I set my mid anywhere between 11 & 1 o clock most of the time. When tracking I tend to set mids & highs slightly higher just to ensure a better recording signal. A tube screamer or in my case a (cheaper..but equally effective) Bad Monkey would be a good investment IMO. It reduces the work load on the amp & in my case...really opened up the overall tone. Classic Ibanez screamers and clone circuits are known to boost mid freq a tad when engaged so take heed in that. Also beware!! Being a drummer by trade & guitar tube amp noob I once hit the Bad Monkey set to a clean boost whilst on my clean channel without checking the level.....lets just say it was not a very good idea at the time: ) The beauty of tube amps is in the subtle character they have to offer. Maxing out the gain & scooping the mids wastes so much usable tone. Set your H&K to a good crunch & hit it with a good OD & I assure you...you'll love the outcome. Best of luck to you Dave! \m/
Just curious, what is your opinion on my tone? Anything you'd suggest improving? I am running: Dime 100w Bass-6 Mids-6-7 Treble-6 Gain-6 (Soon to be Schecter Hellwin 100w) ZW-44 Overdrive (Solo Boost) SH-8 Invaders CSGuitars
Gabriel Mathews sell that dime and and buy a Randall Warhead. Much more versatile amp there's a reason dime only used warhead heads and classic made cabs
What this guy is talking about is frequency placement with the guitar blending into the rest of the instruments so they all can be heard. AND HE IS 100% CORRECT!
No actually you have to chain 5 death metal pedals into the amp with maximum drive. Throw the drive on the amp all the way up. Not only scoop the mids but also the highs and everything but the lows. The you have to raise the volume till the guitar starts clipping. You have to run all that through a compressor. Once you do a lead you have to make the volume even louder and throw wah wah on it and make everyone def with there ears bleeding. Because blood is metal and so is DEATH!!! @.@
This was a much needed PSA. HOWEVER! Your "superior" tone was hardly any better. Perhaps it was bad mic placement or an issue with the head itself but that tone was pure midrange in the worst of ways. Mids are essential, but you need a careful amount of high end or it's going to sound like you're running card board speakers.
Aaron Barrett It's probably an issue of trying to pick up a good sound on a shitty mic. I'm sure this wasn't recorded on a good mic since his voice sounds muffled and distant as well.
Aaron Barrett Kinda sounds like it was recorded with a room or the camera mic. If that were the case the first tone is much more cutting one its own and sound better to a camera mic. But you can hear in the second tone how midrangy it was, and you can get the gist of how it would actually sound in the room, or if it were properly mic'd up.
Ive been saying this since 1987 when I remember watching a local band do a couple Ozzy songs and the Guitarist was using a top shelf Marshall 2203 head and 1960. The problem began as soon as they started playing. The singer starts saying between songs I can't even hear the guitar. Well thats because the guitarist was running a Boss distortion pedal into the 2203 Clean with all the midrange and presence turned off!! I listened to 3 songs and couldn't take it any more. When they stop to start the 4 th song I was standing beside the guitarist and I said!! " IF YOU DONT TURN THE MIDRANGE UP ON THAT AMP AND ADD A LITTLE PRESENCE YOU MAY AS WELL STOP PLAYING NOW!!! NO ONE CAN HEAR WITH THAT EQ SETTING"!!! The singer agreed and off they went to fix the problem. I couldn't take it and normally wouldn't say anything but it was tonal suicide!! Good job dude great Videos! Keep them coming!
+Tim Stanley Jesus Christ. How the hell can you have a top of the line marshall and use a distortion pedal for all your gain? The marshall gain sound is essentially the sound of rock and metal. Good on you for telling him that his tone was arse.
+VelopodStudios Well unless you're Victor Wooten and doing things on the fret board that are legitimately novel, the statement is true. No one wants to hear a band with just drums and bass. They are the platform, the guitar is the show. I'm a bassist.
I’va always seen people say “this has such a nice scooped sound.” I’ve always hated scooping the mids and I felt like boosting the mids makes it so much more brutal.
Scooped mids will help for a slap bass tone and that’s about it. And you only have to take out a little bit. Guitar sounds best if you push the mids forward a bit. That’s at least from my few months of experience with guitar.
As a bass player with two guitarists both boosting the low end. i'm not being heard, i'm the one who gets lost. i tell them everytime to cut the low end a little bit and bring up the mids, but they forget everytime, every practice day. so annoying. the gear they use: Guitarist 1: lead (Ibanez rg 7 string emg pickups, mxr fullbore metal) Guitarist 2: rythm (Schecter 7 string also emg pickups, Boss metal core pedal)
Brandon Broz I'm happy i can hear the bass in our mix at least, we recorded 8 songs for our record a while back and the finished mixes are awesome. you can hear the bass clearly :P It's not coming out before after 2016 though
Also distortion tends to hide mistakes, encouraging you to sacrifice precision in favor of "sounding cool". Practice with clean tone to hammer out mistakes, and then reward your diligence with killer tones & other effects.
Dude you are probably the ONLY person on youtube to offer this very specific and often overlooked piece of advice but actually explain the reasoning behind it!
I used to think that, but was using frequencies that the bass player and drummer were occupying and no matter how much i turned up the amp i couldnt hear myself, backing off the gain, bass and turning up the midrange in small intervals worked miraculously !
I think what happens is that a lot of metal musicians come up with this tone when they're playing alone in their rooms, you know, just fiddling with controls. And when that's the case, the tone sounds really cool because it just expands so much. But when you put it in the context of a band, suddenly you don't need to spread out the tone as much, you need it to be more of a niche sound, and so the tone no longer works.
Every year I come back to this awesome video. Sure the production is better in newer videos, but this classic content is what made me love Collin from the start
Being an electrical engineer, you have no idea how much I enjoy the fact that I know what you're talking about even though I don't know how to play guitar. XD ALL THE GAIN!
I used to fight with my rhythm guitarist about this all the time. He would scoop the mids like fuck and use a Boss "Metal Zone" pedal. I, on the other hand, was stuck with some shit amp for a while, but I had a decent multi effects pedal and had spent days finding a nice (what I called at the time) "Megadeth-y" sound where the mids could actually come through in the mix. I always hated that scooped mids sound anyway, it gave me a headache. I came from a school of guitar playing where you wanted a more growley and aggressive tone from your guitar (I think it was called the 80s lol). I never liked having too much distortion, or having my guitar sound like it was being amped through a gameboy with a subwoofer. Usually the kids I've known who would do these insane scooped mids tones would always cite bands like Slayer or As I Lay Dying as influences, but if you really listened to their music, none of these bands (with the exception of maybe Deicide) would do this. They understood how to get a good sound. I listen back to the old Slayer records and I'm always blown away by how good they sounded for an early thrash band. Then I would go to a show where some local thrash or "core" band would be playing and think "god, they sound like shit!" It's not the songs themselves, but it's the damn tone. Drummers not properly tuning their drums, guitarists with scooped mids, bassists with their amps turned up way too loud, and vocalists who cup the mic like a lover's balls because they don't know how to project. I learned pretty early on that the "Metal Zone" and "Death Metal" pedals were something to avoid. I usually just liked a nice mild distortion pedal or (even better) a good fucking amp. Hell, at one point, I was actually using my multi effects pedal simply as a splitter and using two different amps (a Marshall and a Line 6) to generate that "wall of sound" when I was in a band that only had me as the guitarist (the bassist had a Marshall he was willing to donate to the cause, and after playing around with it a bit we found we really liked the sound of the two together). Find what works for you, but for the love of god, don't EVER use a Metal Zone pedal, and if you're going to use the amp's distortion setting, do NOT scoop your mids. Might sound "cool" to you while you're jamming in your room, but it sounds like deep fried dog shit live. Thank you.
And if you're black metal ignore this video. Get a low quality amp from a pawn shop crank the gain and remove all bass. Make sure the vocalist has an old antique microphone from a fighter jet or something. It doesn't matter if they can hear the notes, just make sure it sounds scary as hell.
This is actually very helpful for me. Sadly, I fell into the Metallica "...And Justice For All" attitude of scooped mids, high treble, and high distortion. Hopefully this will help to beef up my sound a bit and actually make it sound more than an under-produced Cannibal Corpse album Plus, the way you pronounced "Heard" made my day :) I don't mean to dog you, many nationalities pronounce words differently.
Odie Cauthon Just about every young metal guitarist on the planet has fallen into this trap at some point. I certainly did, I have friends who did. I was just lucky that I had seen this video and was able to change my sound before I started playing guitar in a band.
Odie Cauthon metallica did more than just scoop their mids on AJFA, they also mixed newstead's bass lines extremely low volume in the mix. Which is why many people on you tube have taken it upon themselves to remix the album with the bass guitar track boosted to normal levels.
Greetings Colin ... I just discovered your channel and subscribed. This channel you've constructed is THE BEST guitar channel, PERIOD. No one else has it all ... Knowledge, Shared Experience, Wit, Intelligence, Humor, Wisdom, Likeable Personality ... As talent, originality and that special quality that make up the most successful bands, you have that. Thank you for being here for as long as you continue this, success and best wishes, a new fan/subscriber from S.F. Bay Area, CA, Scotty!!!
Also, if you're going to play with a distortion pedal through a clean channel, why not buy a great clean amp? If you aren't even playing through the dirty channel of a metal amp, why get one?
That is so stupid to me too, look if you are going to use a pedal for distortion then just get a solid state amp. Solid state amps have a way better clean channel.
maybe i'm just retarted i play guitar but wouldn't an amp with a distorted channel or distortion capabilities be more capable of playing a distorted sound bigger better and the whole thing i used to play a boss gt-6 guitar effects processor through a keyboard amp and also through amps with clean and distortion channels the thing that sounded the best was pretty much just a large amp like at least a half stack
Thank you for pointing out the dead simple logic of instrument frequency spectrum. I've told countless guitarists how important it is to develop a tone that sits well in the mix and fills the frequencies that the drums and bass leave empty. But all I constantly get are responses like "no way my tone is number one priority!" they say with their Spider IV half stack.
This video completely changed how I dial in my sound and I've never looked back. I'm just an apartment jammer but this technique makes my little modeling combos sound huge without being deafeningly-loud. Thanks for the insight!
A Tubescreamer is not a clean boost pedal, it's a transparent overdrive. Maybe at a low gain setting it will boost the volume like a clean boost does, but that's not entirely what it was designed for. I thought the exact same thing when I was looking for a clean boost pedal, but was told otherwise from the staff at the store. I ended up coming home with an Xotic EP Booster and couldn't be happier.
How to: Get a metal sound You need a fender twin reverb, the one without gain controls, remember! Keep the volume low not to risk overdriving it the least bit, and flatten the EQ. Mic the amp so you don't risk having it too loud. Then find yourself a hollow-bodied telecaster and just pull out the bridge pickup! All you need is the neck pickup, and roll up the tone knob 100%. and there! you got yourself a metal tone! If you really wanna put the pedal to the metal, get a light reverb pedal, anything else is going overboard
+Jack & Ryan Guitar ha Dual rec! What is this Pop Funk? for your acoustic? I use a Triple Rectifier as an overdrive plugged into a Revv Generator plugged into a Marshall JCM 900 with 8 4x12 cabs and 20 Metalzone Distortion Pedals and 72 tube screamers for my Smooth Jazz tone!
That's what I do. I have a '95 solid tele, though, and instead of micing the amp I use a Big Muff. Low bass, mid mids, and high highs. Sounds like a slug's orgasm.
solar fall Uh, no. Its probably made out of plastic, has a shitty fret job, a cheap nut, cheap single coils, cheap tuners, and one volume knob. Also, the frets will hurt when you slide. I started on a first act squier. It sucked.
Really nice. Simply put, effectively demonstrated. Killer sound. I thought I was already doing this, at first, but then you mentioned rolling back the bass. I was doing everything you mentioned EXCEPT backing off the bass. And doing so finally got rid of the last remnants of that "muddy" sound for me. So thank you! This really helped!
Well said. I can't think of any reason to have an overdrive pedal in front of a tube amp for anything other than solos where you want massive sustain, harmonics, or feedback. Passive pickups through the overdrive channel of a tube amp is the sound that launched rock. There's no need to mess with it, it works. With passive pickups, it cleans up very nicely.
I've learned to appreciate natural amp drive with mids over the years, though I love adding some more treble to have a little more bite to cut through the mix (especially since my black metal band has no bass player)
If you have a low gain amp, then, by all means, max the gain. And is anyone really stupid enough to buy an expensive, modern, hi-gain amp and not use the drive channel?
Speaking on behalf of sound engineers everywhere, thank you Colin. Even the best sound engineer can’t fix a sucky scooped metal tone. We just can’t put back what wasn’t there in the first place.
I'm the guitar pick technician who tapes the guitar picks to the side of microphone stands so this video just totally lost me. I've been doing this for over 40 years and one day hope to make it big. These young kids are doing really crazy stuff with guitar picks nowadays and it just blows my mind.
What's funny is that the scooped metal sound that most beginner guitarists go for is something that is EQ'd post-recording, not on the amp itself. I assure you the "Justice" tone that everybody raves about is a product of not only the Mark IIC+ but also post-recording EQ as well.
So stumbled across this old video... but yeah, you're dead right. I played in a thrash band, playing bass, with two guitarists. One was reasonably gear savvy, but the other would scoop every single mid out that he could. I remember being in a studio rehearsal room and I think it was a Marshal JCM2000 that was there maybe... He dialled all the mids to nil, and then found a mid scoop switch that he pressed as well. But for his clean sound he maxed out the mids on the amp, despite playing a Les Paul... anyway, the singer in the band also encouraged me to have a really bright bass sound, like a funk, slap bass sound... and I was like... "Guys, you've got this all the wrong way around"... When we started recording it all sounded dreadful and I got my way and the bass got cut from the guitar, and put on the bass, as it should be. The other guitarist know what he was doing, thankfully. Said guitarist also had to get me to help him get an amp working once because no sound was coming out of it. This particular amp had the footswitch jack on the front panel... that was what he'd plugged into. 'nuff said.
Preach. I recently made this same discovery for myself and I'm ashamed I never sought out this wisdom before. I'm running through a vintage Marshall JCM900 and for a long time my distorted sound simply came from the A/B switch into the crunch channel with an insane amount of gain. Now I run the crunch channel with a third of the gain knob at the most and modulate it with a Keeley Kahana clean boost. The difference is night and day. Thanks for the great video, sir.
sometimes seemingly simple advice gives the necessary reminder to keep rocking hard and solid. Thanks for the vid, its a good reminder a lot of great guitarists just might not know or simply forget.
Not necessarily. If your pedal does the distortion work, your amp is mostly just here to do the processing work. It being a metal amp means it is built to process this type of sound, not just to produce distortion by itself.
It does sound badass because it represents sonically what a riff should be if the bass was doubling it. It creates a sound more akin to what was heard on a record, but you get it with just your guitar. Unfortunately a guitar's bass is not punchy or tight enough to mimic a bass nor are their amplifiers designed to fully articulate those low frequencies. Awesome by itself in the bedroom, muddy and flat in the studio. Listen to "Hammer Smashed Face" by Cannibal Corpse and then "Raining Blood" by Slayer and tell me which one has a more audible guitar track. The heavily scooped tone in the former is all but lost in the blastier parts of the song while the latter's riff is still discernible throughout. That's the difference mids (among other things) makes.
TtotheG Dude I totally get that. I like to mess around with scooped mids because it sounds "Br00tal" but when I play or the tone I has high mids because it cuts. I loved that Hammer Smashed Face v Slayer comparrison.
Sounds cool but to his point when you're with a band your sound will vanish in the mix. In my experience, your 'bedroom' sound will almost never translate to a band setting.
Bailey Chasteen Also, it helps that he knows his way around a guitar, phrasing, feel, vibrato, muting, and I'm pretty sure he can make any rig sound damn good. Thus, the old saying, "most of a guitar players tone is in his hands."
This is also true, for home recording or any kind of mixing. We love the beef of boosted bass, but that's because we're playing instrument solo. Optimal guitar setting sounds quite dull while played solo, but in the mix, when those low frequencies are already occupied, it sounds much better :) Don't forget double tracking too!
Years ago, I actually asked the owner of the studio we were recording at to help me dial in a good tone, as I couldn't really find myself in the mix.I was not really impressed until both guitars were going and you could tell what was what. Like with the second example, I'd use that for a rythm and fill in more highs and tweek the sound for a lead.Even when both guitars are playing the same thing you fill in the blanks of what the other is playing tonewise and it makes it sound MASSIVE. Rolling back the gain is also good advice, as dialing your perfect tone means jack when all you hear is crunch crunch crunch! I'd have more to say about bass players tone if I ever had one that shows up or turns his volume up to more than dead silent.Good upload, hope people take this to heart
A cursory glance at the comments tells me that most guitarists don't know jack shit about audio engineering lmao. Just because scooped mids sounds good to you while jamming out alone in your bedroom, that doesn't mean it's going to sound good in a mix. You need to be aware of which frequency ranges each instrument primarily occupies and EQ your shit accordingly...unless you WANT your mix to sound like a muddy mess like 99.9% of black metal, in which case, go nuts.
Not sure what it says about myself but I really like the sound at 1:13. In my opinion it appears to be a decent backing guitar tone myself. Going to finish the video now to find out why it is incorrect.
+Case H It's like he said briefly: Sounds awesome in your bedroom, but terrible in the mix. A better demonstration would have been had if part of this video was with a band showing the settings and how the metal mid scoop ameture setting gets lost in the sound.
You are missing the point. It may sound cool in your bedroom. But when playing live with a drummer and a bassist (and maybe another guitarist using similar settings) will make your tone not be "haired".
Dude, totally agree with you, a lot of people dont worry about the mix in live gigs, even in bass eq I see a lot of guy totally boost the bass knob not understanding that the bass is already a low instrument and that adding lows only removes the definition of what they are playing. Cheers
Say what if I'm using the 6505 plus's natural distortion and the dial in is at: Presence 5) Resonance 5) Reverb 5) Post 3) High 2) Mid 3) Low 3) and pre 6) or say Presence 2) Resonance 2) Reverb 2) Post 5) High 2) Mid 3) Low 5) and pre 2? Thanks for looking it over...PHALLUS APPROVES!!!
I have a inexpensive amp (as I am learning to play and did not want to throw down a lot just yet) and wow, this actually helped me get the sound I preferred to hear.
At my band practice, I use an amp with the gain cranked, but I have passive pickup ups as well. I always keep my highs at 9, mids at 8.5, and my bass at 7.5. I also use an overdrive to boost through when I play solos. It seems to work well.
As terrible as it sounds, we all must admit that we were there one day. Back when we started. I remember I got an overdrive pedal on sale into a fender blues junior amp, and I thought I was on some next level heaviness.
running my 100 dollar starter pack guitar through the 10 watt amp that came with it, with a distortion pedal I got from toys r us (no really) thought I was a rock God.
To be fair, that cheap overdrive pedal running through a little junior combo amp would definitely sound WAY better than a boss metal zone, mxr fullbore, or the high gain channel of a line 6 amp. You can get a cheap tube combo amp and a used tube screamer together for the same price as a new metal zone alone and sound 100 times better
Between Rage and Melody its actually the opposite. if you think of it in terms of how much volume is going into each frequency band, you've got two hig-volume,high frequency sounds which add together to create an ultra-high-volume high frequency sound, which unblances the mix, making the "ice pick" tones a lot more harsh. You need to think of the guitar's tone as not jst the tone the guitar is producing, but also the entre band's tone as a whole. A similar thing happens with guitar and bass. sometimes the low frequencies that give guitars their warm sound can cause the mix to become muddy when the bass is added in. turning down the low frequencies on the guitar fixes it and the warmth now comes from the bass. this is also part of the reason why most guitars have tone dials - turn the high frequencies up when you're playing a guitar part without drums, then turn it down when the drums kick in.
Thank you so much for this video because quite frankly you've saved my sound, and now it sounds so good I've got inspired to play more that I ever have before, so once again thank you so much and like you say keep it loud mate
One thing that was overlooked here was pickup choice. Yes, EMG's were mentioned, but a lot of metal players use high output passive pickups to increase the input. The Bare Knuckle Pickup Nailbomb for example comes with ceramic and alnico magnet options, and the alnico version has as more pronounced midrange and slightly rolled back highs compared to the more scooped ceramic version. Most high output pickups have ceramic magnets and they often have a scooped EQ to begin with, which adds to the problem. So definitely worth considering the EQ of the pickup if the information is available. The Alnico Nailbomb is easily my favourite pickup of all time, and it's great for Floyd Rose equipped guitars as well because of the pronounced midrange. I'd check out the PRS Tremonti treble too, it cuts really well without getting too piercing.
wait wait wait... buy a "quintessential metal amp, 6505/dual rec" and only use the clean channel... what the f@#k! Do people really do that? I've had many head amps and many drive pedals but when I want high gain you boost the high gain channel... I thought that was obvious!
+CSGuitars I really can't understand that. Why waste your cash on an amp if that's what your gonna do, just get an electro harmonic 44 magnum pedal instead haha. but it regards to using the crunch channel I think that depends on what amp they have. For example, I use an evh stealth. So my 2nd channel has plenty of gain for heavy rhythm so I clean drive works well, leaving my 3rd channel for leads. But I still drive the 3rd channel for really heavy stuff.
+Luke Norman The same money these people blow on Metal Zones could easily be spent on a Boss SD-1 or a Tube Screamer, especially if they already went through the trouble of buying a 5150, 6505, or Dual Rec. You bought that amp for a reason, and using a Metal Zone-type pedal only reduces that great high-dollar high-gain amp to a glorified stage prop.
God. Your generalizations/stereotypes are so damn true it almost brought a tear to my eye. Buying the new gear and cranking up all the gain, metal setting on the Line 6, and even going to the extreme of Jamming out with that awful tone. You sir, crack me up. LOL
well, it really depends on what you're playing... i can't see you playing death metal with such a setting! i use my ENGL fireball at 6-7 with a custom screamer, and it melts walls... \m/
Herrdesrings Agree 100% cuz I tried it myself. The EVH is a fucking tight amp with plenty gain. Blew my mind when I found out it was a fender when I was used to the EVH name on Peavey Amps.
My band has a couple death/deathcore songs and I think my setting still sound great for them. Most of our songs are more progressive like the contortionist, but I've always liked mid to low gain on my settings because it gives room for more feeling on harder picking and softer picking. I feel like less gain shows more emotion. Idfk
Totally wholeheartedly agree with you dude! My rig consists of a Triple Rec through a Mesa 4 X 12, running at 4 ohms split. My main axe uses EMG 81/85 with the 18V mod. I run a 2 channel ISP Decimator, one in the FX loop to cancel the amp hiss, and in the chain to control feed back. My musician friends would compliment me on the great tone I've achieved. Some believe I've got it just because of the brand of gear I've used (which doesn't hurt at all) But when they would buy high end brands of gear, they'd expect it to sound great automatically. I've been asked by some local metal guitarists before how to dial in their tone, and it surprised them every time when I give them the same advice you give in your video. Dial back the gain, boost the mids. Always the best starting point.
I'm 56 and in my gigging days in the 80's I used to use a Les Paul Custom with a Marshall 50 (no master volume) and an MXR micro amp to overload the front end. It still is a great sound. Perhaps not as distorted as is used now, but you should try it. I've got a Blackstar HT5 for home use now and the micro amp still fills the sound out. You can achieve it with a distortion pedal by not using so much gain and more output. Try it.
Some people don't have a low enough wattage amp to go for more output. I see a lot of guitarists crank a 100W head, and they blow away the front row while they're nearly inaudible in the back.
The only thing you forgot to mention in this video is that there is such a thing as too much midrange. Too much midrange will make your sound too flubby, compressed, and only the midrange will cut through. Sure, it will cut through, but what does cut through will sound like complete and utter shite. So, don't just turn the mids up to ten, make sure your highs and lows are just as high as your midrange. Or, you can do what I do with my Mesa Boogie Dual Caliber 5, which has the graphic EQ that the mark series amplifiers do, and have lots of low/high midrange, and a decent amount of middle midrange while still having it lower than all of the other settings. So definitely don't scoop the mids, but also don't turn the mids up too high. You will regret it.
Steven Malm I know, I am just trying to tell people to whom that isn't obvious. I set my mids even higher than that, but depending on your amp, too much midrange will make your guitar cut through, but it will sound atrocious.
Marco Lopez Yes, as long as your midrange doesn't make the chugs sound flubby, that is great. It mostly depends on your amplifier how much midrange is too much. Another thing that will happen is, while playing live, your sound will cut through too much, and it won't sound good. If it doesn't do either of those things, you are in good shape.
Have you ever heard how Dimebag got his tone? It's kind of insane. Rather than a drive pedal, he used a Randall solid state with the gain cranked, cut the mids on the amp, put bass on 8, and treble on 10. Then he got a 6-band EQ and a 4-band EQ and boosted the mids with those pedals. Then he added a gate to control feedback. Add a Dimebucker (Signature Dimebag pickup which I believe has the same output levels as the EMG 81) and the fact that the EQs saturate a lot as well Dime might as well found the hidden "666" setting for the gain knob.
+CSGuitars A well produced Pantera album would be abysmal. I agree that it's not the most clear, best produced tone but you can't deny that it was filled with character and suits a specific style.
+VelopodStudios Fair comment. I think it can be used well but for the most part you're probably right. I'm not a guitarist, I just wanted to spark a debate.
+Qatar Jack1711 A lot of people don't understand that Dime thickened his sound with various EQ pedals, yes he did scoop his mids, but he could still be heard in the mix. This is because he was the only guitarist in the band, this gave him a bit more freedom when it came dialing in a tone and scooping the mids. Also Rex had similar EQ setting to Dime so Rex wasn't that obvious in the mix either. This gave Darrell even more freedom to scoop his mids. Couple this with double-tracked guitars and he has a pretty thick sound.
Everyone has their preferences and everyone hops on the hate bandwagon about something... we're all guilty of it. Just like what you like and everyone else can fuck off! :)
Great Video! I'm glad someone finally adresses the topic! I play an ENGL Fireball 60 myself, bass at about 11 o'clock, mid at 1 o'clock and treble at 2 o'clock. Gain is at about 9 or 9:30 max. and I like to fiddle around with the Presence knob a bit. Can't say I ever had problems hearing myself on or off-stage and the soundguy is always happy too. Keep it up!
Don't fall into the trap of thinking 'All The Gain!' sounds good.
Dial in your metal sound with confidence and make sure your audience can hear you with this tutorial.
#metaltone #allthegain #csguitars
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The american amp sound is famous for having scooped mids
2:06 "Yu won't son beg, yu won't son hevi, yu wull just not be herd"
Love your accent
There's something oddly satisfying about when he says "chicken" in the "get the most out of your gear" video xD
Haired*
+AnotherGuyOnRUclips Accent? Nah, mate... dialect :P
The ':P' is to denote humour :P
+Martin Landart On a related note, if you do wish to see some proper Scottish dialect, read original Robert Burns poems. Best laid schemes ... and all that jazz ;)
Having recently witnessed some metal bands where the guitars were completely lost due to super saturated over processed distortion, I decided to address the topic on youtube.
Love this vid Col and it's a huge factor in live sound I think where bands and guitarists in particular are concerned. Top job man, top job
agreed though i don't have that high of mids i use them to a point sort of just short of half way up anyways maybe i should get a tube screamer my friends were telling m e that it was actually boosting the tone of my already good Hughes and Kettner. (however that amp name is spelled its german i guess)
dave hoover
Setting EQ on your amp has a lot to do with the room your in as well. The EQ is basically frequency selective volume control. I'm more of a rhythm guitarist at home. I set my mid anywhere between 11 & 1 o clock most of the time. When tracking I tend to set mids & highs slightly higher just to ensure a better recording signal. A tube screamer or in my case a (cheaper..but equally effective) Bad Monkey would be a good investment IMO. It reduces the work load on the amp & in my case...really opened up the overall tone. Classic Ibanez screamers and clone circuits are known to boost mid freq a tad when engaged so take heed in that. Also beware!! Being a drummer by trade & guitar tube amp noob I once hit the Bad Monkey set to a clean boost whilst on my clean channel without checking the level.....lets just say it was not a very good idea at the time: ) The beauty of tube amps is in the subtle character they have to offer. Maxing out the gain & scooping the mids wastes so much usable tone. Set your H&K to a good crunch & hit it with a good OD & I assure you...you'll love the outcome. Best of luck to you Dave! \m/
Just curious, what is your opinion on my tone? Anything you'd suggest improving?
I am running:
Dime 100w Bass-6 Mids-6-7 Treble-6 Gain-6 (Soon to be Schecter Hellwin 100w)
ZW-44 Overdrive (Solo Boost)
SH-8 Invaders
CSGuitars
Gabriel Mathews sell that dime and and buy a Randall Warhead. Much more versatile amp there's a reason dime only used warhead heads and classic made cabs
What this guy is talking about is frequency placement with the guitar blending into the rest of the instruments so they all can be heard. AND HE IS 100% CORRECT!
But what if we want them to be haired?
@@MedalionDS9then boost the meds, so you can be haired.
i love beeing haired when i play
+Marco Rademan Well then don't shave the mids out of your tone.
+Liam Hogue hahaha that actually made me lol a bit
You have to be to be in a hair band, ya know?
haired is scottish for kicking ass and getting blowjobs.
id rather be a hard ass highlander, which i am, than a southern shandy drinkin shitebag.
"As a guitarist, you're always the most important person in the band."
Truer words have never been spoken!
LOL Learned that long ago, but hearing a Scot do it was worth the watch I subbed...
+Tech of Tomorrow no replies yet? Didn't expect to find you here
+Tech of Tomorrow how random of you..
+Tech of Tomorrow Cool to see you here, haha!
+Tech of Tomorrow Always thumbs up ToT
+Tech of Tomorrow Elric :D
Even after all these years, whenever I dial the gain knob, his voice keeps ringing in my head "ALL THE GAIN" ... BWAHAHA
I need to be haired!
What's up, goldenthroat?!?
4 years later and that made me laugh. Yelling it outloud helped me understand.
Your face is haired
You want to be haired guys.
+Drzpapigio14 Because hair is even more important for metal than guitars and amps!
+Shirosen yes
+Shirosen you're not wrong. metal is 1/3 music 2/3 looks
+Drzpapigio14 Would a wig be enough?
thank you
Thank you for helping me. now I'll really be haired at my next gig
But will you sound beg?
I'll sound really beg because I won't be scooping my meds
You will be haired if you don't scoop your meds so that you sound beg. Also, turn down yer gain a wee bit.
i died upon reading this thread
i'm sorry. take me to jail and beat me
No actually you have to chain 5 death metal pedals into the amp with maximum drive. Throw the drive on the amp all the way up. Not only scoop the mids but also the highs and everything but the lows. The you have to raise the volume till the guitar starts clipping. You have to run all that through a compressor. Once you do a lead you have to make the volume even louder and throw wah wah on it and make everyone def with there ears bleeding. Because blood is metal and so is DEATH!!! @.@
+MobileDecay OMFG I'm in tears lmfao
Jermaine Riley =D
you forgot to not use an attenuator, you aren't death enough
Sean Lew =(
Also, your guitar MUST have pointed edges, or else you aren't tr00 kVlt enough
This was a much needed PSA. HOWEVER! Your "superior" tone was hardly any better. Perhaps it was bad mic placement or an issue with the head itself but that tone was pure midrange in the worst of ways. Mids are essential, but you need a careful amount of high end or it's going to sound like you're running card board speakers.
Aaron Barrett It's probably an issue of trying to pick up a good sound on a shitty mic. I'm sure this wasn't recorded on a good mic since his voice sounds muffled and distant as well.
Aaron Barrett Kinda sounds like it was recorded with a room or the camera mic. If that were the case the first tone is much more cutting one its own and sound better to a camera mic. But you can hear in the second tone how midrangy it was, and you can get the gist of how it would actually sound in the room, or if it were properly mic'd up.
Aaron Barrett Well. Even if it is due to a bad mic or not, the tone is still superior because this tone will be heard when played live.
Ive been saying this since 1987 when I remember watching a local band do a couple Ozzy songs and the Guitarist was using a top shelf Marshall 2203 head and 1960. The problem began as soon as they started playing. The singer starts saying between songs I can't even hear the guitar. Well thats because the guitarist was running a Boss distortion pedal into the 2203 Clean with all the midrange and presence turned off!! I listened to 3 songs and couldn't take it any more. When they stop to start the 4 th song I was standing beside the guitarist and I said!! " IF YOU DONT TURN THE MIDRANGE UP ON THAT AMP AND ADD A LITTLE PRESENCE YOU MAY AS WELL STOP PLAYING NOW!!! NO ONE CAN HEAR WITH THAT EQ SETTING"!!! The singer agreed and off they went to fix the problem. I couldn't take it and normally wouldn't say anything but it was tonal suicide!! Good job dude great Videos! Keep them coming!
+Tim Stanley Jesus Christ. How the hell can you have a top of the line marshall and use a distortion pedal for all your gain? The marshall gain sound is essentially the sound of rock and metal. Good on you for telling him that his tone was arse.
\,,/ That's exactly how I feel!!
+Tim Stanley Glad you spoke up, they might have never learned
+Tim Stanley "Tonal Suicide"...might be a good band name.
Helium Road Good name!!
I want to be haired like you but im still growing mine out.
this
I'm so worried that my hair will grow into a mullet instead lol.
Mine all grows on my face and my ass
there is so much depth to this comment
well played
"As the guitarist you're always the most important person in the band" lol.
+Michael DeMeritt Bass players aren't important anymore, now that we have 7-string guitars. /s
+Scotty C not sure if serious. but if you think that's true you're playing with the wrong bassists.
Not even a little bit serious. I'm a bass player. /s was supposed to be mean "sarcasm". :P
+the daedric prince of dank memes Exactly...there's an app for that ;)
And the app doesn't have BO and drink all your beer!
+VelopodStudios Well unless you're Victor Wooten and doing things on the fret board that are legitimately novel, the statement is true. No one wants to hear a band with just drums and bass. They are the platform, the guitar is the show. I'm a bassist.
"Get EMG pickups, roll off your mids and raise your gain." - Every metal tone video.
Apart from this one!
um...hell no!
NO MIDS!
ALL. THE GAIN!!
I’va always seen people say “this has such a nice scooped sound.” I’ve always hated scooping the mids and I felt like boosting the mids makes it so much more brutal.
Scooped mids will help for a slap bass tone and that’s about it. And you only have to take out a little bit. Guitar sounds best if you push the mids forward a bit. That’s at least from my few months of experience with guitar.
As a bass player with two guitarists both boosting the low end. i'm not being heard, i'm the one who gets lost. i tell them everytime to cut the low end a little bit and bring up the mids, but they forget everytime, every practice day. so annoying.
the gear they use: Guitarist 1: lead (Ibanez rg 7 string emg pickups, mxr fullbore metal) Guitarist 2: rythm (Schecter 7 string also emg pickups, Boss metal core pedal)
Time to get some new guitarists
well. You're a bassist bc no one wants to hear you.
Cliporis :(
+Tobias TK bass is such a cool instrument in metal and its lost so much in metal mixes it's sad
Brandon Broz I'm happy i can hear the bass in our mix at least, we recorded 8 songs for our record a while back and the finished mixes are awesome. you can hear the bass clearly :P It's not coming out before after 2016 though
Also distortion tends to hide mistakes, encouraging you to sacrifice precision in favor of "sounding cool".
Practice with clean tone to hammer out mistakes, and then reward your diligence with killer tones & other effects.
This video changed my life no joke. I owe so much to this guy for helping my live tone
20 years playing and you just opened my eyes, mind blowing.
Thanks CS, I'm a live sound engineer and you are doing me a favor by informing the metal guitarist on tone and clarity. Thank you.
No shave November or not, we always wanna be 'haired'
I'm enjoying this.
Drummersjokes*
+Roy Chayanne this made my night
Dude you are probably the ONLY person on youtube to offer this very specific and often overlooked piece of advice but actually explain the reasoning behind it!
That first tone actually wasn't that bad lol
Isolated it sounds quite good actually, problem is in a recording/mix/live situation it will be awful.
Scooped tones sound great in a studio setting, but in a live gig you just get completely lost against the bass and cymbals
I used to think that, but was using frequencies that the bass player and drummer were occupying and no matter how much i turned up the amp i couldnt hear myself, backing off the gain, bass and turning up the midrange in small intervals worked miraculously !
Yeah, they both sound very samey to me too, I would have liked to have heard both in a mixed context and also an A B comparison of the two.
@@User-jk8wq you cannot be haired!
For quick comparison:
br00tel 13 year old 0:42
Scotsman's recommendation 3:25
So...me on the first one...but with mids
It's amazing how many of the comments on this vide are just LOL THAT SCOTTISH GUY HAS A SCOTTISH ACCENT.
Aye I know its weird, still love a Scottish accent
If eet’s nae Scootish, it’s crap.
I think what happens is that a lot of metal musicians come up with this tone when they're playing alone in their rooms, you know, just fiddling with controls. And when that's the case, the tone sounds really cool because it just expands so much. But when you put it in the context of a band, suddenly you don't need to spread out the tone as much, you need it to be more of a niche sound, and so the tone no longer works.
Every year I come back to this awesome video. Sure the production is better in newer videos, but this classic content is what made me love Collin from the start
Being an electrical engineer, you have no idea how much I enjoy the fact that I know what you're talking about even though I don't know how to play guitar. XD
ALL THE GAIN!
I used to fight with my rhythm guitarist about this all the time. He would scoop the mids like fuck and use a Boss "Metal Zone" pedal. I, on the other hand, was stuck with some shit amp for a while, but I had a decent multi effects pedal and had spent days finding a nice (what I called at the time) "Megadeth-y" sound where the mids could actually come through in the mix. I always hated that scooped mids sound anyway, it gave me a headache. I came from a school of guitar playing where you wanted a more growley and aggressive tone from your guitar (I think it was called the 80s lol). I never liked having too much distortion, or having my guitar sound like it was being amped through a gameboy with a subwoofer.
Usually the kids I've known who would do these insane scooped mids tones would always cite bands like Slayer or As I Lay Dying as influences, but if you really listened to their music, none of these bands (with the exception of maybe Deicide) would do this. They understood how to get a good sound. I listen back to the old Slayer records and I'm always blown away by how good they sounded for an early thrash band. Then I would go to a show where some local thrash or "core" band would be playing and think "god, they sound like shit!" It's not the songs themselves, but it's the damn tone. Drummers not properly tuning their drums, guitarists with scooped mids, bassists with their amps turned up way too loud, and vocalists who cup the mic like a lover's balls because they don't know how to project.
I learned pretty early on that the "Metal Zone" and "Death Metal" pedals were something to avoid. I usually just liked a nice mild distortion pedal or (even better) a good fucking amp. Hell, at one point, I was actually using my multi effects pedal simply as a splitter and using two different amps (a Marshall and a Line 6) to generate that "wall of sound" when I was in a band that only had me as the guitarist (the bassist had a Marshall he was willing to donate to the cause, and after playing around with it a bit we found we really liked the sound of the two together). Find what works for you, but for the love of god, don't EVER use a Metal Zone pedal, and if you're going to use the amp's distortion setting, do NOT scoop your mids. Might sound "cool" to you while you're jamming in your room, but it sounds like deep fried dog shit live. Thank you.
And if you're black metal ignore this video. Get a low quality amp from a pawn shop crank the gain and remove all bass. Make sure the vocalist has an old antique microphone from a fighter jet or something. It doesn't matter if they can hear the notes, just make sure it sounds scary as hell.
This is actually very helpful for me.
Sadly, I fell into the Metallica "...And Justice For All" attitude of scooped mids, high treble, and high distortion.
Hopefully this will help to beef up my sound a bit and actually make it sound more than an under-produced Cannibal Corpse album
Plus, the way you pronounced "Heard" made my day :) I don't mean to dog you, many nationalities pronounce words differently.
Odie Cauthon Just about every young metal guitarist on the planet has fallen into this trap at some point. I certainly did, I have friends who did. I was just lucky that I had seen this video and was able to change my sound before I started playing guitar in a band.
guitar19971
Was finally home long enough to tune up my amp a bit.
Was certainly impressed by the beef of the tone.
Odie Cauthon metallica did more than just scoop their mids on AJFA, they also mixed newstead's bass lines extremely low volume in the mix. Which is why many people on you tube have taken it upon themselves to remix the album with the bass guitar track boosted to normal levels.
Odie Cauthon I had to like that comment for "underproduced Cannibal Corpse album"
Odie Cauthon would love to "hair" your tone now. :))
Greetings Colin ... I just discovered your channel and subscribed. This channel you've constructed is THE BEST guitar channel, PERIOD. No one else has it all ... Knowledge, Shared Experience, Wit, Intelligence, Humor, Wisdom, Likeable Personality ... As talent, originality and that special quality that make up the most successful bands, you have that. Thank you for being here for as long as you continue this, success and best wishes, a new fan/subscriber from S.F. Bay Area, CA, Scotty!!!
There's nothing more satisfying than having somebody who clearly knows more than me tell me that what I am already doing is right! Thank you!
Also, if you're going to play with a distortion pedal through a clean channel, why not buy a great clean amp? If you aren't even playing through the dirty channel of a metal amp, why get one?
Ben Weissman I'm more of a hard rock guy. I gave up pedals forever ago. Master volume and double coil seems to do it for me.
That is so stupid to me too, look if you are going to use a pedal for distortion then just get a solid state amp. Solid state amps have a way better clean channel.
maybe i'm just retarted i play guitar but wouldn't an amp with a distorted channel or distortion capabilities be more capable of playing a distorted sound bigger better and the whole thing i used to play a boss gt-6 guitar effects processor through a keyboard amp and also through amps with clean and distortion channels the thing that sounded the best was pretty much just a large amp like at least a half stack
it's not that simple, an amp with a great clean channel will probably start breaking up to early.
Power tube distortion!
Thank you for pointing out the dead simple logic of instrument frequency spectrum. I've told countless guitarists how important it is to develop a tone that sits well in the mix and fills the frequencies that the drums and bass leave empty. But all I constantly get are responses like "no way my tone is number one priority!" they say with their Spider IV half stack.
LOL
If you're playing a Spider IV, your tone is not your number one priority.
This video singlehandedly changed my opinion on guitar tones forever. Watching it again like 8 years later I still take heed.
This video completely changed how I dial in my sound and I've never looked back. I'm just an apartment jammer but this technique makes my little modeling combos sound huge without being deafeningly-loud. Thanks for the insight!
A Tubescreamer is not a clean boost pedal, it's a transparent overdrive. Maybe at a low gain setting it will boost the volume like a clean boost does, but that's not entirely what it was designed for. I thought the exact same thing when I was looking for a clean boost pedal, but was told otherwise from the staff at the store. I ended up coming home with an Xotic EP Booster and couldn't be happier.
How to: Get a metal sound
You need a fender twin reverb, the one without gain controls, remember! Keep the volume low not to risk overdriving it the least bit, and flatten the EQ. Mic the amp so you don't risk having it too loud. Then find yourself a hollow-bodied telecaster and just pull out the bridge pickup! All you need is the neck pickup, and roll up the tone knob 100%. and there! you got yourself a metal tone! If you really wanna put the pedal to the metal, get a light reverb pedal, anything else is going overboard
+Jack & Ryan Guitar ha Dual rec! What is this Pop Funk? for your acoustic? I use a Triple Rectifier as an overdrive plugged into a Revv Generator plugged into a Marshall JCM 900 with 8 4x12 cabs and 20 Metalzone Distortion Pedals and 72 tube screamers for my Smooth Jazz tone!
+V10 FSI oh yeah and I use EMG 81s in the bridge AND neck, wired in series for maximum output.
+Jack & Ryan Guitar and just for safety, I use 5 compression pedals
That's what I do. I have a '95 solid tele, though, and instead of micing the amp I use a Big Muff. Low bass, mid mids, and high highs. Sounds like a slug's orgasm.
sounds shoegaze but ok
I have a $45 Walmart electric guitar.
I have a $7000 Gibson custom shop.
I have a $650 Schecter C-1 FR Platinum, though I think you can find it cheaper nowadays.
+SofaKingJB Yup about $550
+0prahTV thats all you need. set it up right and new pickups. you would be surprised how sweet a 40 dollar guitar can be
solar fall Uh, no. Its probably made out of plastic, has a shitty fret job, a cheap nut, cheap single coils, cheap tuners, and one volume knob. Also, the frets will hurt when you slide. I started on a first act squier. It sucked.
Really nice. Simply put, effectively demonstrated. Killer sound. I thought I was already doing this, at first, but then you mentioned rolling back the bass. I was doing everything you mentioned EXCEPT backing off the bass. And doing so finally got rid of the last remnants of that "muddy" sound for me. So thank you! This really helped!
Well said. I can't think of any reason to have an overdrive pedal in front of a tube amp for anything other than solos where you want massive sustain, harmonics, or feedback. Passive pickups through the overdrive channel of a tube amp is the sound that launched rock. There's no need to mess with it, it works. With passive pickups, it cleans up very nicely.
I've learned to appreciate natural amp drive with mids over the years, though I love adding some more treble to have a little more bite to cut through the mix (especially since my black metal band has no bass player)
i dont understand a word of what you're saying......liked and subscribed
If you have a low gain amp, then, by all means, max the gain. And is anyone really stupid enough to buy an expensive, modern, hi-gain amp and not use the drive channel?
Yes
Yes. Yes they are. I know a guy who bought a 6505, threw away the footswitch, and runs the clean channel with a metal zone in front of it.
One of my friends has a Mesa Mark V and he only uses the clean channel with drive pedals.
It's a shame really.
Those aren't people. They are soulless messes of biology.
+Alec Bernal worse then the ginger kids
That explanation was perfect; really technical, yet easy to understand. Cheers. I needed this video 30 years ago lol.
Speaking on behalf of sound engineers everywhere, thank you Colin. Even the best sound engineer can’t fix a sucky scooped metal tone. We just can’t put back what wasn’t there in the first place.
I'm the guitar pick technician who tapes the guitar picks to the side of microphone stands so this video just totally lost me. I've been doing this for over 40 years and one day hope to make it big. These young kids are doing really crazy stuff with guitar picks nowadays and it just blows my mind.
Shoot for the stars man. Anything is possible.
I'm already plenty "haired". I've been growing it for a few years!!! I don't understand!!! ;)
I thought this was going to be tips on amp settings and not cosmetology.
PnTNecrosis he was joking about how Collin's brogue makes him pronounce the word "heard" as "haired".
+RhythmGrizz Yeah, I'm pretty sure he got the joke and was adding to it, bro.
Notice how the guitar without mids gets lost in the mix.
After 9 years... ALL THE GAIN!!!!!!!!!
Still the best video on the subject on YT! :D
What's funny is that the scooped metal sound that most beginner guitarists go for is something that is EQ'd post-recording, not on the amp itself. I assure you the "Justice" tone that everybody raves about is a product of not only the Mark IIC+ but also post-recording EQ as well.
I personally like and miss the no mids and boosted gain sound for recording anyway. Everything today sounds muddy every time the mids are boosted.
So stumbled across this old video... but yeah, you're dead right. I played in a thrash band, playing bass, with two guitarists. One was reasonably gear savvy, but the other would scoop every single mid out that he could. I remember being in a studio rehearsal room and I think it was a Marshal JCM2000 that was there maybe... He dialled all the mids to nil, and then found a mid scoop switch that he pressed as well. But for his clean sound he maxed out the mids on the amp, despite playing a Les Paul... anyway, the singer in the band also encouraged me to have a really bright bass sound, like a funk, slap bass sound... and I was like... "Guys, you've got this all the wrong way around"... When we started recording it all sounded dreadful and I got my way and the bass got cut from the guitar, and put on the bass, as it should be. The other guitarist know what he was doing, thankfully.
Said guitarist also had to get me to help him get an amp working once because no sound was coming out of it. This particular amp had the footswitch jack on the front panel... that was what he'd plugged into.
'nuff said.
Sounds like that guitarist (with the scooped mids) is actually a bass player.
Accents are fun lol.
"Heard" in US = "Hurd"
"Heard" in Scotland = "Haired"
Preach. I recently made this same discovery for myself and I'm ashamed I never sought out this wisdom before. I'm running through a vintage Marshall JCM900 and for a long time my distorted sound simply came from the A/B switch into the crunch channel with an insane amount of gain. Now I run the crunch channel with a third of the gain knob at the most and modulate it with a Keeley Kahana clean boost. The difference is night and day. Thanks for the great video, sir.
sometimes seemingly simple advice gives the necessary reminder to keep rocking hard and solid. Thanks for the vid, its a good reminder a lot of great guitarists just might not know or simply forget.
Who buys a metal amp and only uses it on its clean channel? I mean, isn't the whole purpose of buying a metal amp the distortion sound it gives?
Not necessarily. If your pedal does the distortion work, your amp is mostly just here to do the processing work. It being a metal amp means it is built to process this type of sound, not just to produce distortion by itself.
Shout back if you still want to be haired in 2019.
Can I be haired in 2021 too?
is it just me or did the clean channel scooped mids thing he was doing kind of sound cool?
It does sound badass because it represents sonically what a riff should be if the bass was doubling it. It creates a sound more akin to what was heard on a record, but you get it with just your guitar. Unfortunately a guitar's bass is not punchy or tight enough to mimic a bass nor are their amplifiers designed to fully articulate those low frequencies. Awesome by itself in the bedroom, muddy and flat in the studio.
Listen to "Hammer Smashed Face" by Cannibal Corpse and then "Raining Blood" by Slayer and tell me which one has a more audible guitar track. The heavily scooped tone in the former is all but lost in the blastier parts of the song while the latter's riff is still discernible throughout. That's the difference mids (among other things) makes.
TtotheG Dude I totally get that. I like to mess around with scooped mids because it sounds "Br00tal" but when I play or the tone I has high mids because it cuts. I loved that Hammer Smashed Face v Slayer comparrison.
Sounds cool but to his point when you're with a band your sound will vanish in the mix. In my experience, your 'bedroom' sound will almost never translate to a band setting.
I was about to comment the same thing, it doesn't sound terrible by any means.
Bailey Chasteen Also, it helps that he knows his way around a guitar, phrasing, feel, vibrato, muting, and I'm pretty sure he can make any rig sound damn good. Thus, the old saying, "most of a guitar players tone is in his hands."
This is also true, for home recording or any kind of mixing. We love the beef of boosted bass, but that's because we're playing instrument solo. Optimal guitar setting sounds quite dull while played solo, but in the mix, when those low frequencies are already occupied, it sounds much better :) Don't forget double tracking too!
Years ago, I actually asked the owner of the studio we were recording at to help me dial in a good tone, as I couldn't really find myself in the mix.I was not really impressed until both guitars were going and you could tell what was what. Like with the second example, I'd use that for a rythm and fill in more highs and tweek the sound for a lead.Even when both guitars are playing the same thing you fill in the blanks of what the other is playing tonewise and it makes it sound MASSIVE. Rolling back the gain is also good advice, as dialing your perfect tone means jack when all you hear is crunch crunch crunch! I'd have more to say about bass players tone if I ever had one that shows up or turns his volume up to more than dead silent.Good upload, hope people take this to heart
A cursory glance at the comments tells me that most guitarists don't know jack shit about audio engineering lmao. Just because scooped mids sounds good to you while jamming out alone in your bedroom, that doesn't mean it's going to sound good in a mix. You need to be aware of which frequency ranges each instrument primarily occupies and EQ your shit accordingly...unless you WANT your mix to sound like a muddy mess like 99.9% of black metal, in which case, go nuts.
After years of growing, I am finally fabulously haired like you.
Warpig of The Power the pic tho
What do you mean Virginia!?
Not sure what it says about myself but I really like the sound at 1:13. In my opinion it appears to be a decent backing guitar tone myself. Going to finish the video now to find out why it is incorrect.
+Case H Well you have a subscriber now, just told me I wasn't wrong but why it is role specific.
+Case H It's like he said briefly: Sounds awesome in your bedroom, but terrible in the mix. A better demonstration would have been had if part of this video was with a band showing the settings and how the metal mid scoop ameture setting gets lost in the sound.
You are missing the point. It may sound cool in your bedroom. But when playing live with a drummer and a bassist (and maybe another guitarist using similar settings) will make your tone not be "haired".
Dude, totally agree with you, a lot of people dont worry about the mix in live gigs, even in bass eq I see a lot of guy totally boost the bass knob not understanding that the bass is already a low instrument and that adding lows only removes the definition of what they are playing. Cheers
This still has legend status. Glad my man is still around
I am a random guitarist from no where, and i support this message
That accent though... "Haired". Cracked me up. :D
I, too, would like to be haired.
Me 3 would like to be haired XD
Ahhh...now I know why metal guitarists have long hair. They're just trying to be haired!
I love his accent lol
You speak exactly like the late Colin McRae :) !!!!!!
That might have something to do with us both being born in the same town.
Say what if I'm using the 6505 plus's natural distortion and the dial in is at: Presence 5) Resonance 5) Reverb 5) Post 3) High 2) Mid 3) Low 3) and pre 6) or say Presence 2) Resonance 2) Reverb 2) Post 5) High 2) Mid 3) Low 5) and pre 2? Thanks for looking it over...PHALLUS APPROVES!!!
I have a inexpensive amp (as I am learning to play and did not want to throw down a lot just yet) and wow, this actually helped me get the sound I preferred to hear.
At my band practice, I use an amp with the gain cranked, but I have passive pickup ups as well. I always keep my highs at 9, mids at 8.5, and my bass at 7.5. I also use an overdrive to boost through when I play solos. It seems to work well.
You guys won't be haired if you scoop your mids
Satriani must've scooped his mids HARD some time around the late 90s because he hasn't been "haired" since :)
brandon9271 haha..funny :p
As terrible as it sounds, we all must admit that we were there one day. Back when we started. I remember I got an overdrive pedal on sale into a fender blues junior amp, and I thought I was on some next level heaviness.
running my 100 dollar starter pack guitar through the 10 watt amp that came with it, with a distortion pedal I got from toys r us (no really) thought I was a rock God.
To be fair, that cheap overdrive pedal running through a little junior combo amp would definitely sound WAY better than a boss metal zone, mxr fullbore, or the high gain channel of a line 6 amp. You can get a cheap tube combo amp and a used tube screamer together for the same price as a new metal zone alone and sound 100 times better
Why such a muffled sound? I like more treble in there.
+shockslice when you play with other instruments, the guitar's treble competes with the cymbals, so it's not really necessary.
+DP Trumann do you mean in the phase cancellation 'competes with sound' way? (sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm sort of new into this...)
Between Rage and Melody
its actually the opposite. if you think of it in terms of how much volume is going into each frequency band, you've got two hig-volume,high frequency sounds which add together to create an ultra-high-volume high frequency sound, which unblances the mix, making the "ice pick" tones a lot more harsh. You need to think of the guitar's tone as not jst the tone the guitar is producing, but also the entre band's tone as a whole.
A similar thing happens with guitar and bass. sometimes the low frequencies that give guitars their warm sound can cause the mix to become muddy when the bass is added in. turning down the low frequencies on the guitar fixes it and the warmth now comes from the bass.
this is also part of the reason why most guitars have tone dials - turn the high frequencies up when you're playing a guitar part without drums, then turn it down when the drums kick in.
I
Thank you so much for this video because quite frankly you've saved my sound, and now it sounds so good I've got inspired to play more that I ever have before, so once again thank you so much and like you say keep it loud mate
One thing that was overlooked here was pickup choice. Yes, EMG's were mentioned, but a lot of metal players use high output passive pickups to increase the input. The Bare Knuckle Pickup Nailbomb for example comes with ceramic and alnico magnet options, and the alnico version has as more pronounced midrange and slightly rolled back highs compared to the more scooped ceramic version. Most high output pickups have ceramic magnets and they often have a scooped EQ to begin with, which adds to the problem. So definitely worth considering the EQ of the pickup if the information is available.
The Alnico Nailbomb is easily my favourite pickup of all time, and it's great for Floyd Rose equipped guitars as well because of the pronounced midrange. I'd check out the PRS Tremonti treble too, it cuts really well without getting too piercing.
wait wait wait... buy a "quintessential metal amp, 6505/dual rec" and only use the clean channel... what the f@#k!
Do people really do that?
I've had many head amps and many drive pedals but when I want high gain you boost the high gain channel...
I thought that was obvious!
Yeah, people do it all the time.
I see it constantly at local level shows.
+CSGuitars
I really can't understand that.
Why waste your cash on an amp if that's what your gonna do, just get an electro harmonic 44 magnum pedal instead haha.
but it regards to using the crunch channel I think that depends on what amp they have.
For example, I use an evh stealth. So my 2nd channel has plenty of gain for heavy rhythm so I clean drive works well, leaving my 3rd channel for leads.
But I still drive the 3rd channel for really heavy stuff.
+Luke Norman The same money these people blow on Metal Zones could easily be spent on a Boss SD-1 or a Tube Screamer, especially if they already went through the trouble of buying a 5150, 6505, or Dual Rec. You bought that amp for a reason, and using a Metal Zone-type pedal only reduces that great high-dollar high-gain amp to a glorified stage prop.
+Luke Norman It's pretty common to use the lead channel on a 6505 and throw a turned town overdrive in front of it.
+R Wesley
Oh I know I do so myself, I just thought that was the obvious done thing haha.
all you need is gain and 0 mids it's that easy (:
If you wanna sound like shit, then yea
(joking)
+DarwinzTheoryz ALL THE GAIN
+The90PoundPlusSized Model yes
I definitely like being haired, thanks mate!
Couldn't agree more.... It took me months during my beginning stages of recording to figure this out, with the help of this video!!!!
God. Your generalizations/stereotypes are so damn true it almost brought a tear to my eye. Buying the new gear and cranking up all the gain, metal setting on the Line 6, and even going to the extreme of Jamming out with that awful tone. You sir, crack me up. LOL
Lol, I feel personally attacked.
Fuck a boost pedal. I run my guitar straight into my head. Lead channel with gain on 1. Still sounds crunchy as fuck and cuts through.
Depends on what type of amp... I use a Sonic Edge Tumbleweed boost for solos on a Marshall....
Most people use Tubescreamers to cut low mids. The only amp so far I had where I did not hear much of a difference is the EVH III
well, it really depends on what you're playing... i can't see you playing death metal with such a setting! i use my ENGL fireball at 6-7 with a custom screamer, and it melts walls... \m/
Herrdesrings Agree 100% cuz I tried it myself. The EVH is a fucking tight amp with plenty gain. Blew my mind when I found out it was a fender when I was used to the EVH name on Peavey Amps.
My band has a couple death/deathcore songs and I think my setting still sound great for them. Most of our songs are more progressive like the contortionist, but I've always liked mid to low gain on my settings because it gives room for more feeling on harder picking and softer picking. I feel like less gain shows more emotion. Idfk
My mids go to 11. Greetings from Glasgow.
That's so much better...because it's one more than ten.
But these go one higher...it's like when you need that little push over the edge...you go to eleven.
Totally wholeheartedly agree with you dude!
My rig consists of a Triple Rec through a Mesa 4 X 12, running at 4 ohms split. My main axe uses EMG 81/85 with the 18V mod. I run a 2 channel ISP Decimator, one in the FX loop to cancel the amp hiss, and in the chain to control feed back.
My musician friends would compliment me on the great tone I've achieved. Some believe I've got it just because of the brand of gear I've used (which doesn't hurt at all) But when they would buy high end brands of gear, they'd expect it to sound great automatically. I've been asked by some local metal guitarists before how to dial in their tone, and it surprised them every time when I give them the same advice you give in your video. Dial back the gain, boost the mids. Always the best starting point.
I'm 56 and in my gigging days in the 80's I used to use a Les Paul Custom with a Marshall 50 (no master volume) and an MXR micro amp to overload the front end. It still is a great sound. Perhaps not as distorted as is used now, but you should try it. I've got a Blackstar HT5 for home use now and the micro amp still fills the sound out. You can achieve it with a distortion pedal by not using so much gain and more output. Try it.
Some people don't have a low enough wattage amp to go for more output. I see a lot of guitarists crank a 100W head, and they blow away the front row while they're nearly inaudible in the back.
+David Hoch . We used to point our cabs backwards to avoid that.
That's interesting! I've heard of covering cabs but backwards cabs are new to me.
If you want to be hair'd..don't scoop the meds.
The only thing you forgot to mention in this video is that there is such a thing as too much midrange. Too much midrange will make your sound too flubby, compressed, and only the midrange will cut through. Sure, it will cut through, but what does cut through will sound like complete and utter shite. So, don't just turn the mids up to ten, make sure your highs and lows are just as high as your midrange. Or, you can do what I do with my Mesa Boogie Dual Caliber 5, which has the graphic EQ that the mark series amplifiers do, and have lots of low/high midrange, and a decent amount of middle midrange while still having it lower than all of the other settings. So definitely don't scoop the mids, but also don't turn the mids up too high. You will regret it.
very well said
If you watch at 4:47, he sets the Mids about 6. :-)
Steven Malm I know, I am just trying to tell people to whom that isn't obvious. I set my mids even higher than that, but depending on your amp, too much midrange will make your guitar cut through, but it will sound atrocious.
Alex Wright I set Bass at 7.5, Mids at 10 and Highs at 8, is that ok?
Marco Lopez Yes, as long as your midrange doesn't make the chugs sound flubby, that is great. It mostly depends on your amplifier how much midrange is too much. Another thing that will happen is, while playing live, your sound will cut through too much, and it won't sound good. If it doesn't do either of those things, you are in good shape.
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Have you ever heard how Dimebag got his tone? It's kind of insane. Rather than a drive pedal, he used a Randall solid state with the gain cranked, cut the mids on the amp, put bass on 8, and treble on 10. Then he got a 6-band EQ and a 4-band EQ and boosted the mids with those pedals. Then he added a gate to control feedback. Add a Dimebucker (Signature Dimebag pickup which I believe has the same output levels as the EMG 81) and the fact that the EQs saturate a lot as well Dime might as well found the hidden "666" setting for the gain knob.
More treble.
ALL THE TREBLE !!! 🎸
Sounds like I need to be haired.
ALL THE GAIN!!!!!
Dimebag scooped his mids
Dimebag's tone was abysmal. Listen to Cowboys From Hell, great playing, terrible tone.
+CSGuitars I agree completely, but I WILL say, it fit the music.
Pantera's music with anything but Dime's tone doesn't really sound right
+CSGuitars A well produced Pantera album would be abysmal. I agree that it's not the most clear, best produced tone but you can't deny that it was filled with character and suits a specific style.
+VelopodStudios Fair comment. I think it can be used well but for the most part you're probably right. I'm not a guitarist, I just wanted to spark a debate.
+Qatar Jack1711 A lot of people don't understand that Dime thickened his sound with various EQ pedals, yes he did scoop his mids, but he could still be heard in the mix. This is because he was the only guitarist in the band, this gave him a bit more freedom when it came dialing in a tone and scooping the mids. Also Rex had similar EQ setting to Dime so Rex wasn't that obvious in the mix either. This gave Darrell even more freedom to scoop his mids. Couple this with double-tracked guitars and he has a pretty thick sound.
Talking about how awful Line 6 is is getting about as original as talking about how awful Nickelback.
+Tanner Cruse Or talking about how awful the Boss Metal Zone pedal is^^ LOL.
Everyone has their preferences and everyone hops on the hate bandwagon about something... we're all guilty of it.
Just like what you like and everyone else can fuck off! :)
Or how Gibsons cant stay in tune
P Jn well usually they don’t haha
It's talked about often because it's true
I'm pretty sure I've watched this video like 20+ times. It just shows up in my feed and I can't resist. ALL THE GAIN! NO MIDS!
Great Video! I'm glad someone finally adresses the topic! I play an ENGL Fireball 60 myself, bass at about 11 o'clock, mid at 1 o'clock and treble at 2 o'clock. Gain is at about 9 or 9:30 max. and I like to fiddle around with the Presence knob a bit. Can't say I ever had problems hearing myself on or off-stage and the soundguy is always happy too. Keep it up!