Great review. I've been shooting the 3 vane 3 degree Zingers and the 4 vane 6 degree version. I prefer the 3 vane, 3 degree myself. I don't notice a major advantage vs any other style of vane in terms of accuracy or shootability. I do notice that the Zingers are louder than traditional vanes. However, the ease of installation and user friendliness of the Zingers is what won me over. Wrapping and fletching arrows (and then cutting it all off when you screw up a vane) is a thing of the past for me.
Don’t forget the lifetime warranty. I had some start to become delaminated. Within an hour of sending a message I already had a tracking number. Top notch company.
Garret. I apologize that this question isn’t related to the topic of the video. However, i see one of your bows still has the EZV sight. Are you currently hunting with it? This season will be my first giving it a try. Iv become very comfortable with the sight to the point where i have it on the “pro side” . I was wondering if you ever went back to a pin sight
I have both. Over the summer for field archery league and testing vanes I used the Black Gold mountain lite mostly. Now that huntimg season is close I've transitioned back to the V. I use it with the tick marks showing so I can still range and use them like pins if I want to.
I find sand very good for consistent penetration tests of all types of arrow shafts out of traditional bows. Tuned arrows penetrate best in all my tests. Forrester shafts are my quietest arrows and penetrate the deepest for my setups, and yes your findings about extra spin jive with my tests: We need “just enough” and no more.
Would these stay in place or work thru a whisker biscuit? I did not see anything in comments yet or any videos on this. Is this something you can video and test? Really well done with the slow down videos. Thanks.
If you had a tight fitting design, they might/should make it through. But I would bet that even in that case there's a fair bit more drag as compared to standard fletching. Also I'd be worried about the ring portion contacting the biscuit wanting to cause a slight bump which might not be ultra consistent. I'd definitely suggest that a drop away would be the preferred method.
Neat concept, as are FOBs, I'm going to test both which will be interesting because I shoot FINGERS compound, recurve and longbow recure have since I was 14 [54 yrs]. I use Flipper rest on my Trad bows so have a good chance I won't run into any clearance/interference issues. Like the ability to easily swap to diff configurations and color in a matter of seconds right at the range or out in the remote area s. Nice job with your testing.
I’m testing 3 fletch and 4 fletch zinger both in 3 degree helical. Were yours noticeably noisier in flight than blazers? I feel like the 3 fletch I can hear a whistling sound during longer shots say 40+ yards.
I have already ordered some and can't wait to try them out. Have a lift on order and am going to re-serve the center serving counter clockwise forward so it will clock clockwise.
Would be curious to hear how that goes. Most string makers recommend serving the direction they do in order to match the direction that the fibers are already rotated to help prevent movement or separation. Interestingly I've found that most of the recurve/longbow strings I've ordered clock right, whereas most compound strings have clocked left.
My bow also naturally throws the arrow out with a counter clockwise spin so I decided to support that by using 3 degree left helical and left bevel cutthroat broadheads. Did you have any problems with field tips or broadheads loosening with the left helical?
How would these work with a Classic Genesis bow and Easton 1820 arrows? I manage a youth archery program, and have 100 or so arrows that need to be refletched. We are already 3D printing. Thanks!
Hi Gus, if the bows all have those elevated rubber or spring rests and currently are shooting vanes, it should work fine. Feathers would probably be most forgiving with various archers shooting fingers with varying releases (though not as durable), but I know with the youth events I've helped out with vanes are often sufficient, so these should be as well. Any contact issues with these would likely also be present with vanes. It might not be a bad idea to try a few out on a small scale.
How does the price compare? I don’t see a true disadvantage to shooting these within 30 yards. You can. Basically bare shaft hunt at that distance, i don’t, but I imagine you could.
If you want to shoot left offset, then Zingers are your only choice. I had marginally better broadhead performance with the FOBs, but your mileage may vary. They did make an update to the Zinger design after this video. I'm shooting glue on vanes currently, but I do use a left offset, which might lead me to lean towards these. But ultimately I'd shoot the new ones against the modified FOBs with broadheads, both good shots and intentional torquing, and let the numbers make my decision for me.
I think that the wiggle mid flight if the arrow doesn’t do it every time there’s a small wind current that affect its mid flight. I have to test my arrows and make sure they all fly like darts and no mid flight wiggle in a closed environment.
True. Also, no one is a perfect shot. If I'm not feeling great with my shooting, a slight difference in bow hand position and a bit of a trigger punch (not a nice squeeze) will make some arrows slightly kick. At 40 yards, it can move point of impact with fixed blade broadheads a few inches left or right, but nothing major. I'm talking just enough of a kick to notice visually.
have you worked out the best distance from the knock to place these. currently trying to decide between 3 fletch 3 degree and 4 fletch 3 degree left helical with QAD exodus broadhead - They actually seem pretty close and with my current shooting ability - hard to say if one more accurate than the other - though leaning to the 4 fletch.
Are they a stabilized polymer (cross linking ceased) or will they get brittle with age (like Blazer's etc.)? There is a reason that Flex-Fletch has such a huge following. Those that know the difference, won't deviate.
Good question. I'm not sure which specific urethane material they spool with, so am not sure what type of stabilizers or plasticizers are included. I know with 3d printed parts in general, annealing is fairly popular to adjust the crystalinity, relax built-up stresses, provide dimensional stability, affect strength/stiffness, etc but usually talked about more with rigid polymers like PLA or ABS rather than TPUs.
I have some in both 3 & 4 blade and there super easy to install and change around. I don't notice any real advantage but it does give you way better foc, as the 3 blades are only 10 grs!!!
Where any of the broadheads used in testing single bevels? If so, were the bevels matched to the fletch? Ive seen where LH spin with RH single bevel has significantly less penetration than LH matching or RH matching. Great vid, always enjoy watching arrows fly.
@@DIYSportsman ahhh. Keep telling myself I'm gonna learn CAD. I love how thorough your explanations are. There's quite a few parts of my kit that I've made myself and it's be nearly impossible for anyone to replicate.
They do have a noticeable hiss. I would say the difference between the wide and solid is at least as noticeable as the quietest fletch vs the loudest. I have some noise clips in my Vector HMR review.
@@DIYSportsman @DIY Sportsman i managed to stop all noise from the vented iron will by use 2 SMALL pieces of scotch tape just bug enough to cover 1 hole on each side of the BH but opposite holes of course to keep and Slight extra grain wieght down. But works perfectly.
Way over priced…you’re better off purchasing FOBS just as good but way cheaper. Don’t be fooled about the lifetime warranty you have to pay the shipping and handling.
Yep now it looks like they are copying my 3D printed vanes too. But what's really bad is that they seem to be trying to patent my idea for themselves. This video of mine predates all of there's. ruclips.net/video/iGC7cXO5Wdo/видео.html
@@decaturridgebees8761 No as I doubted it would have offered enough protection to justify the expense. I am still legally entitled to do so though even with Zinger lodging a provisional. But even if Zinger gets the patent granted it holds no standing. I'm actually thinking about releasing a full video on all tips, tricks and the cad files so anyone can make basic vanes like the Zinger. easyvanes.com.au/
Real feathers waterproof fletchings are lighter and WAY more superior in arrow flight and arrow stability than ANY other man made fletching ! There is a channel on RUclips I forget the name but the guy does an index study in slow motion with fletchings straight Fletchings eft wing, right wing & bare shaft Control. With field points in with broadheads Testing a right wing bevel broadhead with a left helicall Fletch And the opposite multiple different ways. The point of this rant was to say, ALL the testing this guy does proves and shows that the LEFT HELICAL spun literally twice as much as a right helucal. This guy's testing of arrow flight, spin & ACCURACY with EVERY different type of helical and broadhead combination from single bevel to double bevel broadheads Was amazing and eye opening And also mythbusting The old saying, match the bevel of your broadhead to your fletchings. 🎯
I think I've seen those same videos too. It looked like his testing had the same conclusions as mine in terms of LH spinning faster. If the center serving was opposite, then RH would spin faster. Those tests were just looking at flight, but you still wouldn't want to shoot a RH single bevel with LH fletch because the reversal on impact puts a lot of torsional strain on the shaft and will in all likelihood dump more energy. I'm a fan of feathers for flight. I just wish they were quieter (both flight and contact noise), more durable and weather resistant.
@@DIYSportsman I completely agree, I was really surprised at how well the right bevel broadhead was flying with a left helicall fletching, But that being sad the point you made is correct with the amount of energy loss your going to lose when that right bevel broadhead Hits its target with a left helical is tremendous. That video was still pretty amazing, But you did Come to the same conclusions he did Which was pretty interesting to. I liked it
Thats generally true, however, in this case its an apples to apples comparison where the only thing changing is energy/momentum retention. So while the exact percentages don't carry over to animals (and if I didn't explain that clearly that's my bad) but the overall trends of increase/decrease would still apply.
nothing wrong with testing penetration in new foam in comparing one arrow vs another. All you are doing is showing option A penetrates better then option B. But trying to say X amount of penetration in foam = X amount is an animal would be pointless and completely inaccurate.. But that was NOT what he was doing
@@DBLDREW I know what he's showing just fine, but what i'm saying is comparing foam has been proven to not be meaninful when comparing to a animal! Either the arrow is going to penetrate deep enough to kill the animal or its not. 2" into the dirt of 12" into the dirt doesn't matter is the point i'm making, As long as you hit vitals you're good to go! I do know that from shooting straight fletching as opposed to helicals i do get more penetration into animals, On a straight fletch the arrows almost non existent rotation isn't fighting with the broadhead as its piercing through bone and hide!
@@79brumley Kinetic energy is kinetic energy energy. If an arrow will penetrate better into foam, that means it's carrying its energy all the way to the target. If it's not penetrating as far into the foam, with the only difference being the vanes, that means that it is losing energy on its way to the target, and that is a worthwhile thing to test and be aware of. More energy at the target means better penetration into the target, regardless of the target substrate. If you're already getting pass-throughs on deer (or whatever else you're shooting), it doesn't matter anyway, but that's a whole different discussion
Me: I made a very comprehensive review!
DIY: Hold my beer.
A review of Turbo Knocks?
Lol that's how I feel!
Both videos were helpful
I tried them, very loud shooting out of a biscuit, will try again with a drop away rest.
@@landoutdoors860 loud for me as well. Worries me.
Best comment ever! "Hold my beer"
As a fellow engineer, I love the discipline and rational methodology you bring to your reviews.
Great review. I've been shooting the 3 vane 3 degree Zingers and the 4 vane 6 degree version. I prefer the 3 vane, 3 degree myself. I don't notice a major advantage vs any other style of vane in terms of accuracy or shootability. I do notice that the Zingers are louder than traditional vanes. However, the ease of installation and user friendliness of the Zingers is what won me over. Wrapping and fletching arrows (and then cutting it all off when you screw up a vane) is a thing of the past for me.
The different rates of spin is pretty cool to watch. I've often wondered how fast an arrow spins after launching.
Great review, the slow motion video really illustrated your points.
Don’t forget the lifetime warranty. I had some start to become delaminated. Within an hour of sending a message I already had a tracking number. Top notch company.
Good to hear. I forgot to touch on that.
How do yours fly with broadhead? Which broadhead do you use?
@@decaturridgebees8761 furthest I shot my broadheads was 40 yards. I shot VPA three blade solids and they flew great
@@ryanovitt155 i don’t shoot over 30 anyway so that sounds good to me
Garret. I apologize that this question isn’t related to the topic of the video. However, i see one of your bows still has the EZV sight. Are you currently hunting with it? This season will be my first giving it a try. Iv become very comfortable with the sight to the point where i have it on the “pro side” . I was wondering if you ever went back to a pin sight
I have both. Over the summer for field archery league and testing vanes I used the Black Gold mountain lite mostly. Now that huntimg season is close I've transitioned back to the V. I use it with the tick marks showing so I can still range and use them like pins if I want to.
Excellent product review - very good use of slow motion video and great comparison between the different fletching types and configurations. Thanks
I been using them with tooth of the arrow bh and my bow is tuned. Little louder than my blazers. Fly great. I didn't have to fletch
I find sand very good for consistent penetration tests of all types of arrow shafts out of traditional bows.
Tuned arrows penetrate best in all my tests. Forrester shafts are my quietest arrows and penetrate the deepest for my setups, and yes your findings about extra spin jive with my tests: We need “just enough” and no more.
Cool video! Are these rated for crossbows under 400fps?
Would these stay in place or work thru a whisker biscuit? I did not see anything in comments yet or any videos on this. Is this something you can video and test? Really well done with the slow down videos. Thanks.
If you had a tight fitting design, they might/should make it through. But I would bet that even in that case there's a fair bit more drag as compared to standard fletching. Also I'd be worried about the ring portion contacting the biscuit wanting to cause a slight bump which might not be ultra consistent. I'd definitely suggest that a drop away would be the preferred method.
Neat concept, as are FOBs, I'm going to test both which will be interesting because I shoot FINGERS compound, recurve and longbow recure have since I was 14 [54 yrs]. I use Flipper rest on my Trad bows so have a good chance I won't run into any clearance/interference issues. Like the ability to easily swap to diff configurations and color in a matter of seconds right at the range or out in the remote area s. Nice job with your testing.
Based on your testing would you recommend these for the IW wides? Or strictly compact fixed heads? The convenience factor of these is hard to ignore.
I'd use something with a little more stability for the wides personally.
I’m testing 3 fletch and 4 fletch zinger both in 3 degree helical. Were yours noticeably noisier in flight than blazers? I feel like the 3 fletch I can hear a whistling sound during longer shots say 40+ yards.
Yes they were slightly louder. Less of a whistling but his a standard hiss.
I have already ordered some and can't wait to try them out. Have a lift on order and am going to re-serve the center serving counter clockwise forward so it will clock clockwise.
Would be curious to hear how that goes. Most string makers recommend serving the direction they do in order to match the direction that the fibers are already rotated to help prevent movement or separation. Interestingly I've found that most of the recurve/longbow strings I've ordered clock right, whereas most compound strings have clocked left.
Do they slide down the arrow upon impact? I would hate to have to adjust them after every shot.
No, there's enough friction that they stay put
My bow also naturally throws the arrow out with a counter clockwise spin so I decided to support that by using 3 degree left helical and left bevel cutthroat broadheads. Did you have any problems with field tips or broadheads loosening with the left helical?
No I don't have any issues with it. But you can also do things like coat the threads with string wax to help keep things tight.
Did you notice a significant sound difference? I found them to be great, but significantly louder than the Blazers I have.
How would these work with a Classic Genesis bow and Easton 1820 arrows? I manage a youth archery program, and have 100 or so arrows that need to be refletched. We are already 3D printing. Thanks!
Hi Gus, if the bows all have those elevated rubber or spring rests and currently are shooting vanes, it should work fine. Feathers would probably be most forgiving with various archers shooting fingers with varying releases (though not as durable), but I know with the youth events I've helped out with vanes are often sufficient, so these should be as well. Any contact issues with these would likely also be present with vanes. It might not be a bad idea to try a few out on a small scale.
Any opinion on running these through a whisker biscuit? I've always wanted to try FOBs but couldn't because of my biscuit.
Average Jack tested it on his channel. 3 degree seemed to do fine, but 6 degree was too much.
How does the price compare? I don’t see a true disadvantage to shooting these within 30 yards. You can. Basically bare shaft hunt at that distance, i don’t, but I imagine you could.
What is your thoughts between these and the modified FOB's. Just you opinion please.
If you want to shoot left offset, then Zingers are your only choice. I had marginally better broadhead performance with the FOBs, but your mileage may vary. They did make an update to the Zinger design after this video. I'm shooting glue on vanes currently, but I do use a left offset, which might lead me to lean towards these. But ultimately I'd shoot the new ones against the modified FOBs with broadheads, both good shots and intentional torquing, and let the numbers make my decision for me.
4:13 did you knock a fletching off another arrow? something flies up when the arrow hits.
I think that the wiggle mid flight if the arrow doesn’t do it every time there’s a small wind current that affect its mid flight. I have to test my arrows and make sure they all fly like darts and no mid flight wiggle in a closed environment.
True. Also, no one is a perfect shot. If I'm not feeling great with my shooting, a slight difference in bow hand position and a bit of a trigger punch (not a nice squeeze) will make some arrows slightly kick. At 40 yards, it can move point of impact with fixed blade broadheads a few inches left or right, but nothing major. I'm talking just enough of a kick to notice visually.
have you worked out the best distance from the knock to place these. currently trying to decide between 3 fletch 3 degree and 4 fletch 3 degree left helical with QAD exodus broadhead - They actually seem pretty close and with my current shooting ability - hard to say if one more accurate than the other - though leaning to the 4 fletch.
I put them as far back as I can without getting face contact.
Cool video your videos are very well made from scouting to hunting to gear!
Are they a stabilized polymer (cross linking ceased) or will they get brittle with age (like Blazer's etc.)? There is a reason that Flex-Fletch has such a huge following. Those that know the difference, won't deviate.
Good question. I'm not sure which specific urethane material they spool with, so am not sure what type of stabilizers or plasticizers are included. I know with 3d printed parts in general, annealing is fairly popular to adjust the crystalinity, relax built-up stresses, provide dimensional stability, affect strength/stiffness, etc but usually talked about more with rigid polymers like PLA or ABS rather than TPUs.
Lifetime warranty…
Not sure if Turbo Knock is still around, these seem like a soft version of those. Wonder if those flew as well.
I have some in both 3 & 4 blade and there super easy to install and change around. I don't notice any real advantage but it does give you way better foc, as the 3 blades are only 10 grs!!!
Where any of the broadheads used in testing single bevels? If so, were the bevels matched to the fletch? Ive seen where LH spin with RH single bevel has significantly less penetration than LH matching or RH matching. Great vid, always enjoy watching arrows fly.
These were all double bevel but you're correct, matching the bevel with the fletching direction is the way to go.
Have these been tested on whisker biscuits?
Your little wiggle is your vanes spinning it to fast causing parachute effect.
Being a slide on/off option, would they work with a biscuit type rest?
I believe the 1 and 3 deg do based on other reviews.
How did you find the total surface area of the blazers? I was experimenting with different vanes in 3 and 4 fletch and couldn't figure this out
I modeled them in CAD to get the numbers.
@@DIYSportsman ahhh. Keep telling myself I'm gonna learn CAD. I love how thorough your explanations are. There's quite a few parts of my kit that I've made myself and it's be nearly impossible for anyone to replicate.
Onshape is a good free platform to learn on.
@@DIYSportsman good to know. I've dabbled with emachineshop, not quite cad but I'm the same ballpark
I like the six fletch. Jackie Caudle says “you make that arrow fly like a dart with all those fletchings.
What Bow are you using for your field test??
Gearhead B24
And what is your honest opinion of the noise level from the iron will wide cuts please ?
They do have a noticeable hiss. I would say the difference between the wide and solid is at least as noticeable as the quietest fletch vs the loudest. I have some noise clips in my Vector HMR review.
@@DIYSportsman @DIY Sportsman i managed to stop all noise from the vented iron will by use 2 SMALL pieces of scotch tape just bug enough to cover 1 hole on each side of the BH but opposite holes of course to keep and Slight extra grain wieght down. But works perfectly.
VERY WELL DONE AND TOTALLY INTERESTING.
Will these work with a whisker biscuit ?
Yes
Will these fit rip tko arrows
I still shoot my aluminum xx75’s right helical 4” true flight feathers. They hit hard enough spin if it isn’t broke don’t fix it!
I’ve got the 3 fletch in 6 degree 👍🏻
Thank you, nice analysis and review. Jus might give them a try... 😉
Way over priced…you’re better off purchasing FOBS just as good but way cheaper. Don’t be fooled about the lifetime warranty you have to pay the shipping and handling.
Ill never run these after they tried knowingly copying FOBs with their first design. FOB took care of them and zinger had to change designs
Yep now it looks like they are copying my 3D printed vanes too. But what's really bad is that they seem to be trying to patent my idea for themselves.
This video of mine predates all of there's.
ruclips.net/video/iGC7cXO5Wdo/видео.html
@@brendans5179 did you file a patent?
@@decaturridgebees8761 No as I doubted it would have offered enough protection to justify the expense. I am still legally entitled to do so though even with Zinger lodging a provisional. But even if Zinger gets the patent granted it holds no standing. I'm actually thinking about releasing a full video on all tips, tricks and the cad files so anyone can make basic vanes like the Zinger.
easyvanes.com.au/
Wow, those fobs are super quit
Awesome video 🎯 Thanks for the info 👍🏼
Mine were noticeably louder then 3 fletch fusion vanes.
Real feathers waterproof fletchings are lighter and WAY more superior in arrow flight and arrow stability than ANY other man made fletching ! There is a channel on RUclips I forget the name but the guy does an index study in slow motion with fletchings straight Fletchings eft wing, right wing & bare shaft Control. With field points in with broadheads Testing a right wing bevel broadhead with a left helicall Fletch And the opposite multiple different ways. The point of this rant was to say, ALL the testing this guy does proves and shows that the LEFT HELICAL spun literally twice as much as a right helucal. This guy's testing of arrow flight, spin & ACCURACY with EVERY different type of helical and broadhead combination from single bevel to double bevel broadheads Was amazing and eye opening And also mythbusting The old saying, match the bevel of your broadhead to your fletchings. 🎯
I think I've seen those same videos too. It looked like his testing had the same conclusions as mine in terms of LH spinning faster. If the center serving was opposite, then RH would spin faster. Those tests were just looking at flight, but you still wouldn't want to shoot a RH single bevel with LH fletch because the reversal on impact puts a lot of torsional strain on the shaft and will in all likelihood dump more energy. I'm a fan of feathers for flight. I just wish they were quieter (both flight and contact noise), more durable and weather resistant.
@@DIYSportsman I completely agree, I was really surprised at how well the right bevel broadhead was flying with a left helicall fletching, But that being sad the point you made is correct with the amount of energy loss your going to lose when that right bevel broadhead Hits its target with a left helical is tremendous. That video was still pretty amazing, But you did Come to the same conclusions he did Which was pretty interesting to. I liked it
I'd like to watch that, any way you can share a link?
At $2.00+ each and weigh more then a standard vane and the inconsistency of weights I will pass.
They weigh less. Pay attention
They weight more then one vane but less then 3 vanes. Do you run one vane on your arrow or 3 or 4 or 6?
You can't measure penetration into foam as a indicator for a animal. A deer has body fluids/blood which act as a lubricant, Soft tissue and organs!
Thats generally true, however, in this case its an apples to apples comparison where the only thing changing is energy/momentum retention. So while the exact percentages don't carry over to animals (and if I didn't explain that clearly that's my bad) but the overall trends of increase/decrease would still apply.
nothing wrong with testing penetration in new foam in comparing one arrow vs another. All you are doing is showing option A penetrates better then option B. But trying to say X amount of penetration in foam = X amount is an animal would be pointless and completely inaccurate.. But that was NOT what he was doing
@@DBLDREW I know what he's showing just fine, but what i'm saying is comparing foam has been proven to not be meaninful when comparing to a animal! Either the arrow is going to penetrate deep enough to kill the animal or its not. 2" into the dirt of 12" into the dirt doesn't matter is the point i'm making, As long as you hit vitals you're good to go! I do know that from shooting straight fletching as opposed to helicals i do get more penetration into animals, On a straight fletch the arrows almost non existent rotation isn't fighting with the broadhead as its piercing through bone and hide!
@@79brumley
Kinetic energy is kinetic energy energy. If an arrow will penetrate better into foam, that means it's carrying its energy all the way to the target. If it's not penetrating as far into the foam, with the only difference being the vanes, that means that it is losing energy on its way to the target, and that is a worthwhile thing to test and be aware of.
More energy at the target means better penetration into the target, regardless of the target substrate.
If you're already getting pass-throughs on deer (or whatever else you're shooting), it doesn't matter anyway, but that's a whole different discussion
:D