The Complicated History of the Star Trek Minidress | Behind the Seams
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
- Star Trek has never been afraid of bold fashion choices, especially for women. And while the short skirts of the '60s original series might seem like a double standard to keep things sexy on the Starship Enterprise, the minidress has a complicated history of female empowerment.
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As one of the “old farts” who has been around for almost all of the franchise’s history, I deeply appreciate that this is one of the first modern RUclips video perspectives I’ve seen where the author(s) have actually done some genuine historical research into the perspectives and attitudes of women from over fifty years ago-rather than ignorantly condemn The Original Series for its “blatant sexism” FORCING oppressed women to wear those horrible miniskirts, as most young RUclipsrs claim, without any knowledge of historical cultural context. It’s infuriating that they arrogantly condemn a historically revolutionary series without any knowledge that it was the WOMEN themselves who WANTED to wear the miniskirts. They’ve never seen the numerous interviews with the late Grace Lee Whitney where she proudly took credit for “designing” the Starfleet minidress with her own personal sketches in her apartment-because SHE believed the women should look sexier. Young RUclipsrs are surprised by Nichelle Nichols politely asking millennials to stop melting down over her classic costume, because it was what she and her fellow female castmates WANTED to wear as a sexually liberated woman, that it was a reflection of what they did choose to wear in their daily lives in the 1960s. Either you’re old enough to know better or you’ve taken the effort to do some actual research. Either way, well done! 👍
Grace Lee Whitney and Nichelle Nichols were dancers. Grace Lee Whitney told GR that the pants which were part of the costume initially covered up her sexy dancer's legs so she designed the Skant. Nichelle Nichols wholeheartedly agreed as she didn't want her sexy dancer's legs covered up either. GR didn't take much convincing, I'm sure. 😉
@@robynzelickson6164 - I’m pretty sure Gene was fully on board! 😉👍
@@MoonjumperReviews Yup! Never a guy to turn down a beautiful girl in a super-short skirt was GR ☺
pre-divorced Gene pushed for a lot of revolutionary ideas including better clothing applications. But his other co-writers, let's say human physically today are arrogant to the point of actual blindness.
Asides from patiently explaining to some people being concerned about miniskirts from TOS that it's okay, I'm pretty sure the likes of Nichelle Nichols would be at least in part gratful and happy with a more comfortable, free, and accepting climate surrounding gender and race today than back in the 60's. Besides, there's so much nuanced, critical analysis to be done about every part of TOS regarding femininity, women, patriarchy, expression, etc that extend so much further than "the women LOVED wearing those miniskirts ;)". And plenty of catsuits later down the line.
As a young boy during TOS, these miniskirts went a long way into my appreciation of women. They OWNED that outfit. Man, Uhura became a standard of beauty for me. Yes, even as a white kid. This show played a significant role for me is seeing people as individual characters, not as tribe members.
Same. Nichelle Nichols was a presence in that uniform. Not a sex object. Yes, she was beautiful to look at, but, it was her character that made you want to listen to and see her. I still credit Nichelle Nichols for making me a "leg guy", but again, it was her character that made me love an intelligent, strong woman.
Nichelle was also truly kind and gracious in real life. I got to meet her briefly at a StarTrek convention in Richmond VA in the summer of 1976, and she was kind enough to sign an autograph for this little kid dressed like Spock. So very nice.
Perv
Nichelle Nichols was just plain yummy.
Especially the episode when her, Captain Kirk, etc., went to the alternate dimension where Spock was bearded and evil.
I have an engineering proposal for an upskirts steering yoke for aerospace vehicles ideal for use by ladies of from equatorial tropical low latitudes.
Contrary to popular myths Star Trek was not a low budget TV show of the 1960s however it certainly displays low budget special effects compared to modern day TV and movie productions. In its day Star Trek was one of the most expensive TV one hour production on broadcast television.
One hour? Take out the commercials and it's forty minutes.
@@Makeyourselfbig that applies to literally every show before direct-to-streaming, where length isn't even kept consistent anymore... Broadcast shows go by their time slot length where, yes, ~1/3 of the time is commercials. Old news. We're all used to it for how long now?
Meanwhile if you want to be mad about inaccurate numbers look up gibibyte vs gigabyte... "Some space is used in formatting", no bill it's just smaller than you say it is because you shaved your ruler and somehow that's legal.....
@@Makeyourselfbig ... By "one hour", he meant the time slot & time length of the show. We all know that every show that's ever been on television in the past 80 years are not exactly 1 hour because those shows would not have existed if it wasn't for sponsors. That's where a lot of the budget comes from. Now back to our regularly scheduled programming after these messages.
@@Makeyourselfbig 52 minutes back then.
Thank you for pointing that out. There are many clever special effects in the original series, better than some movies of that era. I still love that transporter effect. And when the Enterprise is flying through space, the stars in the background are not static, they are moving. It helps sell the idea of warp speed space travel.
As others note, TOS was *not* low budget. While its budget was drastically cut by the third season, it was in fact an extremely high budget show for the time. The special effects may look janky now, but compare them to shows from the same era using FX and you'll find they're ahead of their time.
Perhaps, but the budget of the third season was cut so much that I think only one episode (the Native American aliens) was filmed on location.
One update I'm okay with is SNW adding leggings to the miniskirt design. It still looks about the same without being too "60's". JJ's misunderstanding of Trek is accurate. He was more of a Star Wars fan and attempted to overlay that franchise's sensibilities even though Trek and Wars are fundamentally incompatible. His Kirk is the womanizing space cowboy that most non fans think he is
Yes, JJ made Kirk into what normies perceived Kirk as through other media than what he was like in the show. But then again, reboot-- _cough_ different timeline!
I played a TOS era RPG for a while, and drew some of the female characters in the miniskirt. Just putting them in black leggings instead of hose seemed to make them look more professional.
Although having grown up rebellious without a dad (or much of a mom), him having more focus on fun and risk taking is understandable.
He was Kirk's talent, without his upbringing.
What makes it even worse is that the long-sleeve skants were actually constructed and used by background actors in Star Trek '09;
Which meant that Zoe Saldaña could see female background actors around her wearing properly ranked uniforms while she was relegated to maintaining the cheerleader look.
I wonder how extra demoralizing that must've been for her.
...Then, JJ decided to have her wear the same uniform in the second movie. I couldn't believe it.
@@Leto2ndAtreides hmm sure, I'll buy that why not
I just took that version of Kirk to be a younger, less “worldly” version.
Lt Uhura always looked classy in anything she wore......I still can't believe she is gone.
R.I.P. Nichelle Nichols.
Nichelle
😭
Oops..sorry@@plumbr13
I would like to personally thank Grace Lee Whitney for suggesting the fashion forward minidress for female crew members!
She had awesome legs.
She looked great but should’ve considered that “beehive” hairdo too impractical for space travel. How would that fit in a standard space helmet?
Her beehive was a wig.
She did a bikini spread in 1960 for Gent Magazine, a year after giving birth for the second time. Somehow, her stomach is absolutely flat. She was 30 but looked 20 from the neck down.
At the same time, the few women at NASA Mission Control in Houston in the mid 60’s during Gemini and Apollo program wore miniskirts. That was acceptable, especially by the nerd geeks around them.
The miniskirt history gets even funnier when you realize just as TOS show was filming its third season, the most popular song in America was Harper Valley P.T.A.
I was in my teens in the 60s when the show first appeared, and I totally didn't see the miniskirts as sexist or demeaning. Miniskirts were regular wear at the time, and the Star Trek crew wore tights under them so they were not exposed. At the time, the way women were usually portrayed on Star Trek was much more liberated than on most TV shows, though the portrayal was certainly not perfect.
Not only did we wear miniskirts, WE didn't have any tights under the skirt. The fashion was fishnet hose.
All I wore under mine were bikini panties. I wish I still had that body....
Well, it was routine back then for women in uniform to wear tights/nylons, as well as for any formal occasion. For me, it looks far more professional.
@@billcollins2798Yeah but shouldn’t an exploration crew logically have something more practical? They have no visible pockets or anything. Plus what about older or middle aged crew members?
@@night6724 Yes, I agree. It makes sense if you're in the field to wear something practical, but on board, that's another matter. This casual look nowadays is just garbage.
Star Trek: The Original Series did include a man in a skirt every single time that Scotty wore his dress uniform. It wasn't a skant, but a traditional dress kilt, but it was very definitely a skirt. It's not the only time I've seen ethnic elements incorporated into the Star Trek uniforms, either; I remember distinctly Native American headdresses, too. This makes me wonder if traditionally male skirts - like the Scottish kilt and Samoan lavalava - might not be a way to ease into more variety in clothing for the males.
I think they should cut the minidress like a Roman or medieval tunic and all the men would instantly look very badass and sexy in it.
Scottie never wore a skirt. He wore a Kilt to be exact
Encounter at Farpoint had manskirts in a few scenes.
A kilt is not a skirt, lassie
I like the general idea here, but from a Scottish perspective the idea a kilt could be gender liberating is pretty weird. It’s seen as very masculine, and it’s very weird for women to wear kilts.
Similarly, there is no more open-mindedness about men wearing skirts in Scotland just because kilts exist, in fact men who take issue with gender nonconformity sometimes will say “if you just wanted to feel the breeze why couldn’t you wear a kilt like a man?” or similar, often far less politely. (Although that’s not to downplay the recent progress in Scotland over the last couple decades. Just if the kilt had any influence in that, it would’ve happened a lot sooner.)
I suppose you’re just talking about the American context, where guys often feel weird even looking at a guy in a kilt, but Scotty definitely wouldn’t have seen it as transgressive or feminine in any way. It’s fancy clothing, kilt and dinner jacket or suit jacket, suitable for black tie events if they’re culturally inclusive.
I was 15 in 1966 when I fell in love with Star Trek. I am also a big fan of the TOS mini dresses. As a teen we all wore mini skirts. They were the hight of fashion.
We had to wear them in the 90s during some bar work I didn't mind flashing a bit of nylon covered leg I wish i had been about in the 60s our uniform was black sheer tights, short skirt, black patent Court shoes and a blouse.
Wear it now. I wanna see
Weirdly, some people judge the 60s through the lens of the 21st century. Let’s stop prematurely condemning and begin understanding! Thank you for this excellent video which provides a lot of valuable insights! 👏😘
I was thinking the samething,Mihai,tv shows & movies are a product of their times,so fashions,attitudes,etc,etc,,. are gonna reflect that.
Exactly. In 50 years the contemporary shows we think are progressive will more than likely be dated compared with future television. It's all about context. TOS is what it is because there was nothing remotely like it when it came out and it shaped generations of tv. one loses that insight if it's judged merely through a contemporary lense.
The 60's miniskirt was a symbols of empowerment.
@@Baghdadbatterymusic indeed, as it should be! I’d be worried if today’s progressive shows weren’t outdated in another 50 years. Even 20 years ago I thought TNG had aged well, but today I’m noticing dated aspects. It does annoy me when people forget what was a big deal at the time, and what wasn’t even possible. But I do also find the idea we shouldn’t look at them through a modern lens equally annoying - both things are always true, original and present context, and that’s the case for every piece of media, which is part of my favourite thing about media. They’re all unintentional time capsules.
@@kaitlyn__L well said! Completely agreed. Watching movies like Citizen Kane, The Godfather, 2001, it’s easy to judge it by modern standards and say it’s meh. But doing that you miss out on so much of the importance of the piece or film. The reason those look meh today is because everyone who makes anything within those genres is always directly influenced by them. It’s easy to watch The Godfather and think it’s tropey, but that’s only because all of the filmmakers that came after Coppola copied him. To me that’s a huge factor in determining the importance and quality of a film or whatever
Not gonna lie, those 'militaristic' Starfleet uniforms from the film era are still my favorite. They just look so dang cool and realistic! (And have the best accessories, like Kirk's totally rad coat from Wrath of Khan.) That era's uniforms also have something like NINE distinct division colors, represented by the turtleneck undershirt and a few elements on the jacket.
I've always felt that the Voyager/DS9 uniforms were so much nicer than TNG's, too. The visible undershirt gives them more of that quality of realism and practicality that the film era uniforms had. The TNG jumpsuits feel very much more like just a costume in comparison.
The Trek '09 female costumes lacking rank insignias due to the shortened sleeves is an interesting observation, and more proof of just how poorly conceived that whole endeavor was. Ugh.
When Star Trek II came out with decent uniforms I was so relieved, because the first movie's uniforms were so awful and bland. Star Trek II gave the characters back some dignity.
@@Paul_Wetor Those TMP uniforms... Yeesh! 😬 They had a few positive aspects compared to the TOS uniforms, at the very least you could tell there was more production value behind them...but conceptually they were just kind of _godawful._ "Bland" is also a good descriptor. Clear proof that it doesn't matter how much money you give wardrobe if the ideas suck! 😑
Plus the unnecessary fan service with Alice Eve stripping off in the shuttle craft. 🤷🏻 I appreciate Alice Eve’s beauty as much as the next person but…did it really add to the plot? 🤦🏻♂️😂
@@369Webcast It didn't add to the plot, but I do like how Carol's nonchalant "turn around" dialog sort of threw a curve ball for the fratboy Kirk who is use to ladies swooning over him. A bit of "wait, she turned me down" splash of cold water humility to his face which was much needed. Remember that in Prime these 2 did get together and had a kid. It could have been used as a character development moment in the future if Carol ever came back.
Reaching? Maybe...
My favorite are the practical ones from Enterprise (based off RL Naval uniforms)
Like so many other topics today, the current generation insists on trying to evaluate television and movies from the past using current social standards, almost as if it never occurred to them that people of all stripes had different values when those shows were made. As this video points out, the original series uniforms were intended to be empowering...the eye candy part was a happy coincidence...
It probably doesn't occur to them. The current views often are most women were exploited at that time, and any outfit like the mini- skirt was something they HAD TO wear, not a choice. I really hope this over the top attitude settles down.🙄
One thing...
Star Trek was NOT filmed on a low budget.
It may be considered a low budget by today's standards, however it was in fact one of the *MOST* expensive TV productions of it's day.
What they were doing was inherently more expensive though, so the budget was still tight. And it showed sometimes, especially in season three when the budget was cut down.
@@trentrock3210 That is immaterial to my point. Regardless of how 'tight' you think the budget was. The simple fact is Star Trek was defiantly NOT LOW BUDGET.
it was IN FACT... the most expensive show to make at the time.
@@waltermc3906 Okay. I agree. Lost In Space was low low budget right?
@@trentrock3210 It was, as much as Irwin Allen could possibly squeeze out of every penny (no pun intended) spent. If you look at the progression of the series, the big bucks really went into the first half of the first season, i.e. the Jupiter II sets, the Chariot, then the Space Pod (which came later) with much reuse and borrowing from other Irwin Allen productions. And that Robot... one EXPENSIVE costume! (actually 2 or 3 costumes)
@@TheJorgSacul Love that robot. Had the toy as a child.
I remember my mom, who grew up in the 60s, saying how once they were out of my grandparents' line of sight, she and my aunts would roll their skirts up to be shorter on the way to school.
Also fun fact: girls at my mom's school were not allowed to wear pants until her senior year in 1971/1972. Honestly can't imagine walking to school in just a skirt during those Ohio winters 🥶
My older sister remembers when she was in high school, if a faculty member thought a skirt was too short, the girl had to kneel and they measured the from the hem to the ground. I was not allowed to wear pants to school until what used to called junior high - 1972.
I was at high school in the 1980s. Trousers were NOT part of the girl's uniform. I used to ride a motorbike in while wearing my skirt. Very chilly in winter and my legs would be the same navy blue as the skirt by the time I got my brothers and myself to the bus stop! It's really only been since the late 90's early 2000s that girls in NZ were allowed to wear trousers at school.
@@Mommamacnz "You know you are a Kiwi when your Winter uniform is the same as your Summer uniform plus a jersey." Boys wore shorts Summer and Winter, and I'm pretty sure they were no warmer than the girls' skirts.
Of course you can't imagine it when you're wearing a miniskirt. I walked into the office one day and saw a woman shivering. She was wearing a miniskirt (no hose) and wearing a short, heavy coat. It was in the low 20s outside. On what planet does that make sense? If she had to wear a miniskirt that day, why not some thick tights to keep her legs warm at least until she got to a warm office? She could take the tights off there if she wanted to show off her bare legs. Honestly, some people are so obsessed with current fashion they make themselves look stupid.
I read somewhere, maybe The Art of Star Trek(?) that William Theiss (TOS costume designer) was under orders to make guest star/alien costumes more sexy, but that he was hampered by censorship rules (ie no visible bellybutton) so he compensated by making them look easy to slip off, which accounts for the amount of Grecian-like costumes, and one shoulder fastenings and things like that. This was fun. Glad you're back. :)
thus the Theiss Titillation Theory coined in his name
Great commentary! Thanks for telling it like it is! And you're absolutely right about the miniskirts of the 1960s. Women didn't feel the least bit constrained to wear them. They wore them because they wanted to, just as many women chose to wear bikinis at the beach.
I appreciate that you went beyond the more simplistic "miniskirts were empowering in the 60s" explanation and critiqued the overall use of costumes throughout the Trek series. Your unambiguous stance on JJ Abrams' take was also a relief to hear! I realize you are a fandom person, but this makes it feel like it's not just me and all the other fandom people out there going "ugh" about that.
She's dead right about that. JJ Trek were frat boys playing intense video games...Fast and Furious style movies. It shares too much in common with the other video game movies
1966 Star Trek had to appeal to everyone from age10 allowed to stay up past 8pm, to teens, to 20 somethings, to WW2 and Korea vets and their wives to grandparents. There was still often only one TV, and definitely only one good larger TV until 1970.
Thank you for nailing one of the reasons why the JJ Abrams films are disliked by fans of the series. The lack of sleeves on the women's uniforms means they have no indication of rank. Exactly.
JJ messed up both franchises, basically.
There are a lot of reasons fans don't like the Abrams movies. I don't think that's one of them.
@@alansach8437 I think it is.
couldn’t they add wrist bands or something?
I know this was about uniforms, but I'd just like to add what I read years ago. When Bill Theiss was designing female costumes for guest stars, he wanted to make them as revealing as possible but still had to get by censors. The underboob was not a concept then, so that got by in one episode. And, it was said that his concept of what makes a female's costume look sexy was that it had to look like it was ready to fall off at any time.
I remember reading a long time ago as well.
The United States Navy changed its uniform code towards unisex by making the jumper available for both sexes. I always thought the uniforms of Starfleet were an echo of military uniforms of the past.
@@neeandertallllatrednaeen6635 do you always run around creating temporal paradox’s!?!?
The "Theiss Titillation Theory": "The sexiness of an outfit is directly proportional to the perceived possibility that a vital piece of it might fall off."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ware_Theiss?wprov=sfti1
Bill Theiss has borne the brunt of that for decades, but it was really Roddenberry that pushed for more and more revealing costumes. Bob Justman has written about how Gene would get the actresses in his office with the costumes on and start giving orders about cutting more here and more there. It was his thing, and Bill just had the artistry to make it look good.
There is a bit of a misunderstanding about the so called "mini-skirt" in this video. The actual idea of the "skant" with leggings is not so much a "dress" or "skirt" as it is a type of clothing called a "tunic." Even the US military "service coat" is basically a tunic. It passes down well passed the waist and well above the knee. It is worn with either trousers or a skirt. What I see in "Strange New Worlds" is a tunic, not a skirt. Even Number One, Una, is wearing a tunic over some trousers.
I think ‘skant’ is probably what the costumers dubbed it. It is a tunic-style shirt yes but it is called a ‘skant’ on-set.
This was brilliant. Informative and insightful. There is an episode of TNG where Riker and Worf are wearing dress uniforms. Its a frock coat with trousers. In earlier seasons its a frock coat with tight leggings. Worf complains the dress unifrom looks like a dress. Riker tells him he looks good in a dress. Ive always found it to be quite an interesting scene.
ruclips.net/video/tzE7P3KPi4I/видео.html liaisons!
amazing analysis! I especially love the end where you talked about how men are portrayed in these shows, how a gender standard can affect how male characters are styled.
Regarding the Reboot Kirk's attitude change, remember that the original Kirk we see in TOS 1. is older and 2. was influenced by his father being alive. The youth and lack of fatherly influence definitely makes for a different character.
More like the youth (or at least immaturity) of modern writers. While the younger Kirk was never shown in the series, he was described as being an extremely serious student, a “walking stack of books”.
I don't think Kirk's parents were ever mentioned in TOS. Just his brother's family. He did have his commanding officers to influence him.
@@user-be2dt8eg2x They're mentioned in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" and also the TAS episode "Bem"
The "gold" uniform tunics were actually a yellow green color called chartreuse green. This color sits between yellow and green in the color wheel. However, on the show the tunics took on a golden-yellow color both under the lights used on the set and in the post-development film stock.
As for what Nichelle Nichols says, it was absolutely true. In fact, a "behind the scenes" anecdote is told that she often would tug her tunic higher and bunch it up in the back as she sat in her chair. She did this to show more leg... in order to be more noticeable in the background. Several times she went a little too far and they had to do another scene take. Look at the episode "A Taste of Armageddon" for an example.
It’s likely my nostalgia talking, but I agree with Nichelle concerning the original show’s minidress uniform and prefer it. Sadly, because our culture has become more negative and perceive the uniform to be sexist (likely projecting their own issues) I doubt we will see that uniform again in a series. SNW at least tried to get close to it’s credit.
My nostalgia for the updated pullover in SNW lasted one episode, as I like Number One's skant design. If they made a version with a waist length hem, it would be great as their regular uniform top/jacket. At least adding a zipper seam would make the top match the production value around them.
In TOS, you have to consider production order; many things evolved from original pilot to regular production and over the seasons. The women only wore pants in the two pilots - original unsold pilot "The Cage" and second pilot "Where No Man Has Gone Before". As of the first regular production episode "The Corbomite Maneuver", we see the introduction of the minidress as worn buy Rand (Whitney) in her first appearance and crew women are never seen in pants again. There is no indication mini vs pants was ever a side-by-side choice in that era (setting and production). One might attribute sexualized uniforms in the TNG/Voyager era to be driven by male production staff, but these were pragmatic business choices in recognition of audience demographics. Seven of Nine was introduced specifically for her sex appeal, so she had to be costumed accordingly. The Abrams movies totally misinterpret original Trek (as you point out with re-booted Kirk), so it's no surprise the women's uniforms come across as culturally tone-deaf.
Grace Whitney hated how she looked in the publicity stills before series filming began. There was an NBC December 1965 performance of "These Boots Are Made For Walking"....and that's what Whitney wanted to wear. She modeled the first red short tunic and cheerleeder panties to GR and he said he liked it very much (bet he did).
Nichols was hired last minute because NBC told Desilu they wanted more Black and Asian actors on the bridge (Yes GR lied about that). Suddenly Sulu got a contract and moved to helm. The Communications Radio Officer became Lt Bailey (given to Balok) and Nichols sat in the radio chair in a drab yellow minidress.
She looked terrible in that color and they gave her a red hot one. NBC really were mostly selling color TVs with Star Trek.
I had read somewhere that both Nichelle Nichols and Grace Whitney would see how far they could hike up their skirts before someone said something. I never found out of this was true or an urban myth. If it's true, that's really cool that they did that.
It been said that both Nichelle Nichols and Grace Whitney were proud of their dancer backgrounds and wanted to show off their figures as much as possible.
@@TheLAGopherWell they did have great legs.
You guys are back! I confess I'm not exactly a Trekkie, but I learn so much from your videos whether or not I'm a fan of wherever the costumes originate. Long live Behind the Seams!
Yay, I'm glad you're back!!
Also, I remember specifically reading that Sirtis HATED the miniskirt she wore in the pilot, as she couldn't sit down normally without the camera getting a clear shot of her underwear.
She wore that uniform in the pilot of TNG, so if that were the case, there'd be photos of it all over the internet. Googling turns up nothing, so I figure she figured out how to sit in a short dress or skirt like the vast majority of the female population.
@@florbfnarb7099 uhm, most women don't have a camera pointed at them from straight ahead while trying to do their job, and no one can sit normally in a miniskirt.
@@florbfnarb7099 it wasn't even hard to find, the exact quote is on her damn twitter account: "I had to sit with my knees glued together because that bloody dress (and I use the term loosely) was so short that you could see what I had for breakfast."
Rubbish. All the female crew wore bozzos, a garment like over-sized undies or under-sized shorts made from a fabric that was as thick as sports wear. Women never had an issue wearing these on netball courts.
@@annabjork4254 - All the women I ever knew after maybe high school knew how to sit in a miniskirt without giving everybody a free peek.
Actually Marina Sirtis gave an interview (which I can provide the source if you want), where she discussed the reason why she switched from her original Counselor costume to a Starfleet uniform in the last 2 seasons of TNG.
In the interview, Marina discusses that she's had issues with her weight. She has a tendency to overeat and hates working out. When TNG production took a month long break for the holidays, Marina stopped watching her weight and ate lots of food.
When Marina returned from vacation, she found that she could no longer fit in her Troi Costume. She had gained too much weight. So the costume department had to scramble to make her a custom uniform instead.
Marina says in the interview that this was a big mark of shame for her. She hated how she was forced to wear the Starfleet uniform because she over-ate too much food during the holidays. She swore to herself that she would lose the weight and put on the Counselor uniform again before the show was done.
According to the interview, Marina says she just *barely* managed to drop the weight in time for the final episode of TNG. It's why Counselor Troi switched back to her original Counselor costume during the final episode of the show "All Good things".
She was happy she dropped the weight for the final episode, and did not want to be filmed in a starfleet uniform for the last scene. Marina took great pride in being able to wear the Troi costume.
Ironically that's the same reason they had the wrap around tunic for Kirk on the original series. William Shatner also enjoyed indulging at dinner time and as a result his weight fluctuated constantly. Sometimes he couldn't fit in his regular yellow uniform shirt so then they had him in the green v-necked tunic that could be adjusted according to his belly size at the moment.
@@PlumbPitiful - I recall one TOS producer giving a video interview about that. I watched it on RUclips. They said William Shatner loved to eat so much, and his weight kept going up and up.
It got so bad that they took William Shatner into private theater room for a screening. During the screening, the producers showed William Shatner all the deleted scenes (including action scenes) they couldn't show on TV because of William Shatner's stomach sticking out, and how unflattering it looked on screen.
Apparently this was the only way William Shatner could get the message. He finally understood and was able to "somewhat" keep his eating in check for the remainder of the show.
I mean, feeling shame for gaining weight is nto particularly enlightened either, but certainly common for actors
@@PlumbPitiful You might not believe this, but the gold shirt and the green shirt are the same color. The standard uniform was made out of a material that made Command appear gold on tv, but the tunic was made of a different fabric that didn’t have that effect.
I’m a bit confused, seeing as she wore both the jumpsuit and the uniform in the episode with Jellico, and it wasn’t right at the start of the season. I’ve also seen her discuss it in recordings at cons and she’s recently always told it as in this video. Did she say what you said earlier on?
Hey, thanks for that 1960s era Star Trek cosplay. I only thought that cosplay started in the 1990s. I also thought Troi looked great in uniform and not in the civilian looking attire she wore for many seasons. She was one of the senior officers of Picard's Enterprise, but you didn't really know it when she wore the civilian attire, and it made her look apart from the crew.
The fans' hatred for Captain Jellico is ridiculous. He had certain skills and was there to do a certain job, and most of his decisions were the right ones. Putting Troi in uniform was for the better.
It seems more like only a correlation between the change in Troi's wardrobe and her getting better writing, not causation. It seemed more like the switch was meant to confirm her status as a line Starfleet officer first, and not some kind of civilian specialist assigned to the ship, or something like that (it wasn't until she ended up in command of the ship in "Disaster" that she was a Lieutenant Commander, unless you went back and looked at her uniform in "Farpoint"). In any event she was treated as a respected professional and a trusted member of the crew, whether she wore a conventional uniform, one of her jumpsuits, or one of her dresses. In fact, I rather liked that she could wear a nice-looking dress to work and everyone was sufficiently grown up that they would see LCdr. Troi as an officer and a person, not as a distraction.
And to be honest, the women's uniforms in TNG still were no better than Troi's jumpsuits in that they were still completely form-fitting garments, which were only about half a step less revealing than Seven of Nine's catsuits, even if they did cover a few extra square inches of skin. Furthermore, the ladies were stuck in them even after the men switched over to tunics and trousers from the third season onwards. The women's uniform didn't get that improvement until DS9 and Voyager.
Actually Marina Sirtis gave an interview (which I can provide the source if you want), where she discussed the reason why she switched from her original Counselor costume to a Starfleet uniform in the last 2 seasons of TNG.
In the interview, Marina discusses that she's had issues with her weight. She has a tendency to overeat and hates working out. When TNG production took a month long break for the holidays, Marina stopped watching her weight and ate lots of food.
When Marina returned from vacation, she found that she could no longer fit in her Troi Costume. She had gained too much weight. So the costume department had to scramble to make her a custom uniform instead.
Marina says in the interview that this was a big mark of shame for her. She hated how she was forced to wear the Starfleet uniform because she over-ate too much food during the holidays. She swore to herself that she would lose the weight and put on the Counselor uniform again before the show was done.
According to the interview, Marina says she just *barely* managed to drop the weight in time for the final episode of TNG. It's why Counselor Troi switched back to her original Counselor costume during the final episode of the show "All Good things".
She was happy she dropped the weight for the final episode, and did not want to be filmed in a starfleet uniform for the series finale. Marina took great pride in being able to wear the Troi costume.
I always liked the turquoise full dress with the diagonal cut 'cross Her chest :)
&The skin-tight purple number that hugged dat THICK booty :p
One thing about Troi's roles - Guinan often got them.
Whoopi Goldberg wanted to be on the show because of Uhura. However, the 90's was also Goldberg's most in demand years, so her schedule wasn't easily planned. She was available when she was available.
So often scripts intended for Troi were re-written for Guinan when Whoopi had time.
That sounds precisely like typical Hollywood business protocol. The more famous & profitable you are, the more preferentially you're treated. There is nothing wrong with banking on better, usually.
Honestly Whoopi would have made a better ships counselor then Troi...
@@davidhenderson3988 she pretty much was the ship's counselor as Troi was so wooden. She started out as the Sam Malone of the ship, but quickly took on the captain's confidante role....that's still going.
Impressive how we can change our mind depending on how much information we acquire.
@@erigobelli We should change our minds as we know more. If the picture changes.so should we.
I would’ve gone with sleeved mini-dresses and sleeveless ones, making it a “you get to pick what is comfortable” kind of choice; however, I would’ve have tried to add some sort of universal design for rank that allow the dresses to still show who is what rank. The pips of TNG was great for that, but maybe it could be done with the iconography on the left side of the chest? Who knows.
I always thought that the mini dress and tights thing was just a reflection of the 60’s fashion. I never, as a child in the 80’s/90’s, or as an adult, thought it to be overtly sexual. Were they sexy? Sure. It’s Hollywood, so it’s kind of par for course that they be attractive. That said though, I didn’t feel as though they were being exploited in any way.
Though the actress who played Troi (can’t remember how to spell her name, off hand) had constantly complained about her appearance on the show, I always thought it was a great idea to have her dressed that way, but maybe not for the reason you might think. Again, was it sexy? Yes. Did I feel like it was exploitation? No. What I always did feel about her character, based off her appearance and demeanor, was that she was the more approachable person on the bridge. She dressed, in my opinion, more casually and more relaxed. She looked like the mom (or the cool aunt) you could go to and tell your worries and concerns to her. Granted I was somewhere between 8 and 10 when I first started watching the show in the early 90’s, so take that how you will.
The only character I ever felt was dressed in an overtly sexualized costume was Seven of Nine. Looking back on it, I think it was less to do with what she was wearing and how people talked about it, acted around it, and drew attention to it-within the show itself, that made it feel more overt than anything Troi wore. And, maybe, the shiny quality of the costume affected my opinion too? Like Seven often looked wet, like she was in the middle of a wet t-shirt contest, but didn’t understand the rules and wore a body sock instead… where as Troi always had matte clothes, with few exceptions, that just seemed more calming by comparison… idk.
You see a mini skirt and tights: I see a variation of doublet (tunic style) and hose.
I did a traditionally staged Shakespeare, and found that my male costume of doublet and hose - a particularly heavy velvet thigh length tunic - really liberating. Sure, it'd be difficult to wear a modern version out and about in daily life, but... compare with how many men have long shirts now no longer tucked into their trousers waist band, but just flapping free... so... The Next Gen missed a trick by not putting leggings under them, and having more men wearing them.
But I'm a nearly-was of an old thespian, so what do I know?
Terrific show, though. thanks.
Enjoyable insights.
I remember having a conversation with my sister a few years ago, when leggings with tunic shirts were very popular, about how fashion moves in short nostalgia cycles but also very long ones, and how a “tunic and hose” style comes back into fashion at various points, because it’s just a very practical and comfortable style. It should be more accepted as unisex.
@@BlueRoseFaery I also remember seeing 20 years ago seeing young women wearing midi dresses with a pair of jeans (usually fashionably torn)... also, many rustic mens' shirts are far more tunic like than anything else.
@@jpofgwynedd3878 an Indian Skavij is a straight adaptation of the old tonic and hoze
That was very interesting. I liked the observation that TOS Kirk was romantic and respectful, while the JJ Abrams Kirk is an opportunistic frat-boy.
In the re-boot, Kirk is is young man who is acting out and continues to do so for a long time. He gets into a lot trouble for his behavior and cheats on his Kobayashi Maru test. By the time we see him again, as in the original series, he has grown up and matured - a lot. But he still tends to break the rules and sleep around a lot. 🙂
Yes i LOVED that point!
@@gusmonster59 I think Kirk would sometimes just enjoy a warm embrace/tender kiss with a lady...
He wasn't THAT much of a "Poon-Hound" lol
God forbid a MAN get some nooky, LOL
This is a terribly pedantic point but is it really a uni-form if there are multiple versions for the same crew? Perhaps it's a multiform? 🙂
To be fair most military has multiple uniforms, some situationally appropriate. Khaki can be worn in the field but is rather easily ruined. Meanwhile pilots can and apparently do wear flight suits as common wear, though it's purpose is flying. I would not recommend reporting to a meeting with senior offices in it though.
Glad you mentioned short hair, as I didn't really think about it. In the modern world men are now allowed to wear long hair and pony tails, though it was controversial decades ago.
8:30 As a guy who spent many years in the navy, I think Star Trek got it all wrong, I can honestly say, women can pull off a set of working overalls if they put a mind to. Oh yes they can.
Down Periscope got it right. Utilities just a little too small....that's an Article 15.
Peris Kambatta as the Deltan navigator in Star Trek the Motion Picture, tops them all in the mini dress competition.
The sleeveless uniforms may have not had rank insignia (I didn't even notice they don't have "pips"), but trust me, in the service, you only mistake someone's rank (especially an officer) ONCE.
Unless there is a device that denotes the rank, how do you know what their rank is?
Good observation,I never noticed no rank on the sleeveless uniforms.The soundtrack from Trek 2009 is AWESOME.
They could have been put on the collars like in The Next Generation, but they didn't. Huge oversight on costuming.
What an EXCELLENT video.
have cosplayed in many different outfits, starfleet skant is still THE most comfortable cosplay outfit i've ever had.
have never been groped while in my skant, never been cold in my skant (cos it's real velour ;) ), i'd say it's still a pretty girl-power outfit.
U haven't been groped..hmm must not been cute enough 🤯🤣🤣
Leela! It’s REAL velour!
They can criticize all they want, but I LOVED THOSE MINI-DRESSES. I was a teenager when I watched that for the first time; I think it's hard to blame me. I had a huge kid-crush on Yeoman Rand. 🙂
Personally I thought Marina Sirtis looked better in the uniform than what she had been wearing the first six seasons.
As did most everyone. The blue was very flattering on her and she looked more professional. I could see her wearing casual clothes for therapy sessions but a uniform for bridge and away missions.
I thought she was much more attractive in that uniform than that civilian outfit she always wore.
The design of Deanna Troi's mini dress in the TNG pilot of Encounter at farpoint was definitely what inspired the short sleeved mini dresses of the female Starfleet uniforms in the Kelvin timeline most notably that worn by Zoe Saldana as Uhura and Alice Eve as Carole Marcus. But to me, the longsleeves of TOS looked much better.
This kind of reminds me of how Thor in the Thor movies is often seen shirtless or exposing his arms and he's often portrayed as a doofus. Basically if you're very physically attractive the assumption is that you're not that smart, because if you can coast on your looks why would you need to be smart?
But that wasn't the case with Seven of Nine. She was physically attractive but was by far the smartest person on Voyager. They de-sexyfied her in Picard and she turned into a drunk and a murderer. I prefer old Seven.
All shows are products of their times so the mini skirt just looked great for the audiences of the 1960's because it was fashionable. Ironically, the women of the two pilots wore pants (with a larger collar tunic) because Rodenberry thought the future would be more unisex. Grace Lee Whitney might have suggested it but from what I've read the network bosses were the ones who wanted the change.
I do think your points, specifically about the male costuming hit the nail right on the head. Women may lament that there isn't clear dress codes for looking professional in the work place, but trying to talk a man into wearing something besides pants and a button up when it's over 100 degrees outside is an exercise in frustration. I have been campaigning for someone in my office to wear shorts or a skirt during the summer for 3 years and still no bites, even from the guy from New Zealand who admitted it would be culturally appropriate for him to do so. I think the next frontier in healing our culture from misogyny is freeing men from the fear that deviating even slightly from their extremely boxed in wardrobe is not going to ruin their lives (because it will make them more feminine somehow).
And women are the first to enforce dress codes on male workers…
Clear dress codes? Oh, no! I'd never wear a clear dress at work! Opaque only, please!
Seriously though, more people need to call employers, schools, etc out on having sex-specific dress codes. If they think that sexism is necessary to appear "professional", they need a vocal reality check. If one's sex is a protected category from discrimination, they really have no excuse for holding males and females to different standards. How does this not get more legal challenge?
Your comments are interesting because where I worked the dress code was explicit. Steel toed boots, hard hat, safety glasses, gloves, fire resistant pants and shirt or other outer ware, and in some locations goggles over the safety glasses.
Given that StarFleet bridges are 90% explodium and 10% fall-on-headium I'd consider that about the minimum for the command staff.
@@allangibson8494 Go outside and play. Leave the conversation to the adults.
I want to thank you for a well researched and put together Video. As a fan of TOS you actually documented why I just never much of a desire to watch the new iterations. For me I can say the true measure of any series is the desire to watch the episodes again a few years later and while I watched many episodes of the TOS iterations of TNG, DS9 & Enterprise I have Zero desire to go back and watch ANY episodes ever again. On the other hand I can go back and watch TOS every few years and still get emotional and enjoy it... Except maybe "And the Children Shall Lead". When the scripting and story are done well in any play you look past the dated SFX and look of the stage because the story carries the day and no iteration after TOS can match that.
Rather than repeat @Moonjumper I would say [insert here]
and add that the desire to project today's themes to something staged in the future is literary malfeasance and ridiculous. Just look at how what was normal 50-60 years ago that suddenly people are "offended", I feel that TOS with it's quality of scripts and themes will far outlast any of it's latter iterations in years to come. Your video was done so well it really drove it home to me why I will use the Atavacron of the DVD to continue to watch the quality programs of the past rather than explore nonsense being put out in the Star Trek universe today.
I think those miniskirts were a big part of the idea that it was an optimistic future. 🤣🤣🤣
I love the mini dress, Star Trek should bring it back.
Yes, that DS9 to TOS crossover really showed what we all lost. Real women, real men.
@@RS-ls7mm I was waiting for the idiot comment. Thanks.
@@davidhoward4715 So you decided to post it yourself?
@@davidhoward4715 Did the mean nasty person disagree with your entitled opinion? Time to go to your safe place and cry.
The mini skirt or mini dress is never sexist... just sexy
You're WAY overanalyzing this! The creators of Star Trek put women in as sexy outfits as they could get away with to attract male viewers. It's as simple as that.
There are many very valid points made in this video, both about the original Star Trek TV series ("TOS"), and about The Next Generation ("TNG") and more recent offshoots. Still, some observations and arguments made about TOS here are not 100% accurate. In TOS, there were episodes in which female characters were seen wearing either an adaptation of the male/unisex T-shirt-and-trousers Starfleet uniform ("The Man Trap") or the utilitarian coveralls/jumpsuit (Nurse Chapel in "The Naked Time"). This did not happen enough, but it was a nice little touch that the JJ Arams movies and never 23rd-century-setting shows never really picked up on. It was possible for TOS to make female characters look less sexy/exploited and more competent and "reporting for duty" while not undermining the show's entertainment value in that era, but this wasn't done enough. That choice was an obvious mistake, but members of Mr. Roddenberry's generation are forgiven for it. One noticeable TOS omission was never mentioned in this video: no female character in TOS, or TNG, ever wore a spacesuit, much less did they ever even consider a spacewalk. I don't think that happened until the Yoyager series was well underway. (Lt. Torres did a spacewalk.) I really do consider this issue of astronauts-in-spacesuits to be equally important to the configuration of standard-duty-uniforms in the various TV shows and movies. Star Trek characters, in any era, seem to wear spacesuits or engage in spacewalk-like activities outside their ship, far, far, too seldom to be taken seriously as actual career astronauts. And spacesuits are the great equalizer, which can show characters of any background, gender/orientation, etc., as being both competent and brave because they would be engaging in serious work activities in the harsh and risky environment of space as opposed to the shelter and controlled environment of shielded, pressurized and artificial-gravity-laiden spacecraft. If there is a genuine intersection of criticism of how characters are portrayed in Star Trek, where depictions of background/race, gender/orientation, and competence converge, it must be in showing a variety of such characters in utilitarian attire such as work jumpsuits/coveralls and spacesuits. In this regard, all Treks still leave something to be desired.
Actually, these are MICRO MINI skirts. Tina Turner and her dancers wore them! Nobody accused Tina of being sexist !
As general fashion trends, can change greatly over a course of a generation. Trying to actually give a good prediction of 300 years in the future will be impossible. So they will just give a futuristic polish of the current trend. Who knows in 300 years, top hats and hoop skirt would be considered normal again.
What all science fiction shows do however is give the viewer an "approximation" based on contemporary fashions what fashion 300 years from now MAY LOOK like again. Based on current fashion trends.
Great video. It's amazing how perspectives change. Jadzia Dax once wore a minidress in an episode where she and Sisko go back in time to the trouble with Tribbles and she gets Kirk to sign a worksheet.
2:00
Members of the command crew wesr green! It only looked golf because of the combined effects of the material/texture of the garments, the lighting and the early color cameras.
You can see the green better in the ceremonial uniforms that have a different texture and material.
PROOFREAD BEFORE PUBLISH! dummy.
@@LoneBrowncoat No
Actually red represents support departments which includes the one you mentioned
I've always thought Star Trek tells us more about what the world was like when it was filmed than what it'll be like in the future
so we're just not going to mention the fact that the TNG uniforms changed after the second season because they were literally impacting the actors bodies? Like Patrick Stewart actually got a doctor's note to change the costume because it was destroying his back. and Marina Surtis - Deanna Troi - has flat out stated that she was told that she was "too fat" to wear the uniform.
I can still remember watching TNG as a child and thinking it was so liberating to see male crewmembers wearing skirted uniforms. I still find it such a shame that never became a more prominent feature.
Liberating?
@@jamesgraham6796 Yes, because it implies there aren't jerkoffs like you there to judge you for it
But they were really quite badly designed if the intent was for them to be unisex. There was the short sleeves thing for one, but also the fact that the cut of the division colour panel made it look like an hourglass. It just shouted feminine.
If they had gone with something that more resembled the dress uniforms from a few seasons later they might have pulled it off.
LIberating?
Its often possible to roughly guess what gear a film was made based on hairstyles, clothing, and makeup used by the actors, no matter what the theme of the film, western, scifi, mystery or historical drama. The current culture and level of technology is almost always detectable. Sophistication and technology of electronic devices is another give away. Star Trek does a good job of appearing to be of a more advanced technology even though one can occasionally date the devices construction through limits of the prop department. They can only use what's available and within budget.
That was a interesting take on Star Trek. I personally like the original series simply because it didn’t take itself to seriously. Sure it was cheesy but what’s wrong with that. Some of the following series were a bit dour and quite frankly just plain boring and depressing.
I remember when TOS episodes were new!
I have, and always will be, a HUGE fan of the miniskirts. I have added, to my list, women's crop tops and women's short shorts. Also, halter tops, tank tops, and body-hugging-form-fitting pants of every description.
What can I say,... some women are truly poetry in motion and works of art.
No apologies,
No regrets.
In the DS9 'Trials & Tribulations,' episode Jadzea mentions that the vintage space station K-7 or DS 5 or 7 (?) simply packed in personnel. To say the least the 22nd CE Federation locations in space were sardinized. In comparison most starships in Star Trek Online have a crew of about 2,000 personnel. That scenario takes place in the 25th CE. So, K-7 or whatever was always all elbows. The fighting in close quarters would have been eventually inevitable. With a tight crew comes familiarity & comraderie. So yeah the skirt. The Abram's Uhura w/o the gold stripes is indicative of comfort & functionality. She is also very bold & forthcoming. No one aboard serving w her will deny her on the basis of rank, & that is SO. Although admins on STO do what they can about online in game public fashion issues, there are also a growing # of males w female memes. Idk if that is even numerically significant, but it is factual. My main problem is you could probably do at least a whole hour on interstellar fashion xenology. That's obviously a huge can of worms, I think you can & should if you haven't done so already. Also maybe demystify fashion in STO. I'd particularly appreciate that also. I especially wanted to mention the Rebecca skant BC it actually has ancient pagan traditions, the only thing missing is a big hood to shield from a storm. The typical pageantry includes decoration & often colorful tights or pantaloons. Some of our ancestors wore unisex thousands of years ago, likely ending common trend sometime around the 16th & 17th CE. Her long sleeves are unique to the skant it seems relative to Star Trek cannon, & as a pagan I always was confused by it's lack of appearance, despite the fact that such outfits do not meet with modern tradition so much. Today we wear hoodies & shorts, & in the 90s it was common sub culturally to wear that w long johns, which, at least to me was an impressive Zeitgeist of pageantry. Hey! Rad video! Happy belated Star Trek Day! LL&P!!!!!
I don't love Star Trek a little bit sometimes....
Jadzea was not talking about the K-7 Space station being overcrowded
.. She was talking about the Constitution Class Enterprise. Being Overcrowded..
@@rodferguson3515 Sure, that was still a crowded station though.
Getting rid of Star Trek scants is not more "sophisticated". It is a biological fact that men like to see women's legs and they should not be shamed for this natural and healthy preference. In a strong society, people enjoy having children and they enjoy the acts that lead to children. This is the way that it should be.
In our current dying society, people are no longer having children and the sexes are afraid of one another. Right now, our culture is going backwards and not forward.
I think the short dresses were more driven by creating a higher male viewer demographic than anything else. Even today, ratings are everything, that's why its called the Entertainment Industry.
dingdingdingdingding WE HAVE A WINNER! The miniskirt was already a fashion sensation. And anything to draw viewers... especially when the show almost didn't happen. They can claim 'empowerment' and so forth all they like, that's just the official 'excuse'. The show (when it first aired) was aimed squarely at the pubescent male demographic.
Give the audience what it wants!
It was the fashion of the day. Mary Quant revealed them in 1964 (skirts had been getting shorter since the 1950s). It’s what women were wearing on the street. It’s what Grace and Nichelle wore. I’m sure men didn’t have to be asked twice. But it was women who suggested it.
William Ware Theiss was my Mother's cousin. I remember watching Star Trek in the 60's and loving the outfits, then to find out later that the designer was a relative.
Great video. It's a shame you skipped over DS9 so quickly because I think it had the least sexist female costumes.
But the thing that I really appreciate in the new Trek is that the women finally wear flat shoes!!! If you are serving on a Starfleet ship / base you could be running from an explosion or an alien intruder at a moment's notice. No serious military uniform would include heels. It's nuts
Not entirely true. While women's utility uniforms (cammies or coveralls) include conventional flat-soled utility boots, women's service and dress uniforms often will include flat or low-heeled pumps (I recall my beloved Corps allowing up to a two inch heel), but sometimes the women also have the option of wearing men's shoes.
@@FS2K4Pilot that’s interesting.
My issue is a uniform with heels in a place where you could be attacked at any moment. Which we certainly see on starships & DS9.
If Starfleet officers wore heels on Earth where it’s v unlikely they’ll be attacked that wouldn’t be so weird to me.
Does that sound similar to what you’ve observed?
@@bombshellmusical9566 In almost all cases, the women will be in utilities, just like the men. In cases where men and women could be posted in their service uniforms, you’d be pretty far in the rear areas where attack is unlikely, but never say never. If the shit hits the fan you fight in what you’ve got. It could be that you’re on Embassy duty and something goes down or something like that.
That sounds reasonable to me.
The original Star Trek was not "low budget". Get your facts straight.
I'm a lifelong Trekkie (I remember when there was just "Star Trek!"). I have to admit the sometimes overtly sexist, by contemporary standards, portrayal of women and their costuming has always bugged me. Thanks for the observations and commentary, it was very good.
I do have a Skant dress uniform, 25 years already, when I was young I wear it with tights now I put leggins and is so comfortable and cool, I love it. yes, I want the Skant uniform back.
ST: TNG has several occasions where males (especially Picard) wear dress-uniforms for ceremonial/representational reasons (usually banquets, diners etc.) - in one episode Picard actually orders (or may be "declares") dress-uniforms as a dress-code for an occasion (to Riker's annoyance).
Not sure what it was supposed to say or how premeditated it was, but it showed these types of uniforms still exist in TNG era, although they might be meant or just used mostly for more social occasions. But then, it might be just a whim of a fashion within that one given decade.
"Dress" uniforms have nothing to do with actual dresses. The long tunic isn't supposed to look like a skirt, but rather to invoke the jacket of many modern-day dress uniforms.
Diplomatic staff have dress uniforms too… They just aren’t often worn.
One of the best essays on Trek I have watched. Congrats.
Well that video was a woke journey with no boldness.
Probably THE best summation of the J.J. Abrams mishandling of Star Trek I've heard to date. Your one single line "...Kirk was a frat-boy..." hits the nail right on the head and shows how clearly J.J. had absolutely no idea of what soul of Star Trek was really all about. Although it's to late to undo his damage, I hope he at least takes that to heart and learns.
Seeing the TNG men in the miniskirts always cracks me up. Gene Roddenberry thought that everyone in the future would walk around in togas, but if we're being serious it just looks like (and is) a dude in a dress.
Well they sure as heck aren't riding horses in space (what pants were invented for). More togas, please!
I'm fine with togas or in the future. But they don't look very much like proper uniforms. Maybe a tunic which IMO still looks good on either gender while also having the potential to look badass and commanding.
I see where they were trying to go with this but also I think the detail that it's a one piece also throws things off. It looks out of place as well as needlessly impractical. Done with two pieces it would have looked more like a kilt on a male and would still look 100% fine on a female. Hell, a male kilt would have also had the potential to look more formal (or alternately more casual) than the generic pants so I think could have also added more variety. Being an ex-sailor myself we had our regular day-to-day working attire (e.g. dungarees) but also more dressy stuff (e.g. that silly "sailor costume" with the flap) for special events. So IMO this potential but they just didn't execute it very well.
@@4saken404 I think we saw the best execution of the male dress in the TNG dress uniforms. They were longer cut but didn't look ridiculous.
@@carrierogers874 "what pants were invented for" - And high heels as well! They are practical for a military uniform - if you're in stirrups.
Thank you for a very interesting video! Educating, fun and thought provoking!
Nothing complicated about it , mini skirts & knee hi boots , the female crew members wore it and those of us who grew up watching trek LOVED seeing them in it
There’s absolutely NOTHING wrong with men and women dressing differently.
More significant than the mini skirt in the history of women's liberation was perhaps that Elena Piscopia received her PhD in Mathematics in 1678 (!!!) or that by 1920 one-third of all university graduates were women. My grandmother qualified as a medical doctor in 1927. This almost 100 years after Elizabeth Blackwell in 1849 (1st lady medical doctor). Can we please stop all this gender and race nonsense once and for all, learn a little history and get on with life!
I don't see how the uniforms have anything to do with gender roles. I'm not claiming the original series presented "really healthy gender roles" - it didn't. But it has nothing to do with uniforms. As you pointed out here, at the time of filming the mini was regarded as a positive statement by independent women. Leave it to us modern folk to find a way to take ANYTHING and make it bad. We specialize in that as far as I can tell. We just love to criticize and condemn.
I thank you for this insightful information, I am a man that is in my 60's and I am a fan of TOS and all Star Trek I have never seen the shirt as anything but a uniform. As like most health young boys and teens. I LIKE the skirt and the woman look just fine in them IN COMMAND or other positions
Really interesting video! I heartily agree that the double standard we have now leaves its fingerprints all over Star Trek which shouldn't be the case. I'd love to see a world where men can be as creative, and playful, with their appearance as women, even in professional spheres (something that has regressed since the 60's). It would be awesome if ST could include that in future to get people, at least, used to the idea.
New Trek isn't Trek.
Word
This was a very well researched and written video. It's obvious that you put a lot of time and effort to make this video.
Thank you for making this video. As Star Trek fella(male), I appreciate the the history behind the costume of Trek. Heck I'd wear a skant...I just don't have the legs for it! hehehe. Once again great video!
That comes out a bit dodgy...
Men in Scotland wear the kilt in many occasions, legs or not 😊
I wear a "skant" and enjoy doing so occasionally, or as I know it as, a Tunic.
This was a great video I'm glad this showed up in my recommendations. You did a great job covering the uniforms and their origins! There's so much bts lore about star trek costumes and design decisions.
Ah! I was just thinking of this series the other day and hoping you hadn't given it up. Glad to see your return! And with such a thoroughly researched topic, too~ 🖖
If skirts are set as a kilt, so what. If this type of stuff continues, the story and writing get less and less.
There were many reasons Star Trek was popular with school boys back in the 60's and 70's, the phasers, the amazing transporter beam, the heroes, and yes, the very short skirts!!!
so glad the channel is back!
Yours is an excellent analysis. Great historical research.
Actress Celeste Yarnell ("The Apple") pushed for her skirt to be even shorter than Yeoman Rand's.
Enjoyed this very much. Like the idea of adding pants to the traditional mini dress style, as an option that a crew member could add. Recently I've kind of come to imagine that even in the early days that female crew could choose the version they liked best. When I was watching "Where No Man has Gone Before", I was appreciating Sally Kellerman's cowl neck version of the uniform shirt & either in that episode, or maybe "Balance of Terror". I thought I noticed female crew in a hall sequence wearing BOTH the mini dress & pant/shirt versions of the female uniform. So I've decided that the female crew have always had options to which style to wear. And Uhura, although she rarely has a heavily physical scene, always seems to hold her own in her uniform, & looks great doing it! Thanks for this really interesting video.
Isn't the "dress uniform" in TNG a skirt even for the men?
I just want to know what the dresses were made of. None of the cosplay versions look exactly like the TOS era dresses. They were also wraps.