J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Brockwood Park 1980 - The Ending of Time - Conversation 15
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- J. Krishnamurti - Brockwood Park 1980 - Conversation with D. Bohm 15 - Can human problems be solved?
Summary:
Why have human beings throughout the world not been able to resolve human, daily problems of life? What are the things that prevent the solution of these problems completely?
When there is attention there is no centre from which I attend.
A poor man wants to be rich and a rich man wants to be richer. It is a movement of becoming, becoming, both outwardly and inwardly. Though it brings a great deal of pain and sometimes pleasure, this sense of becoming, fulfilling, achieving psychologically has made my life into all that it is.
Is love something that is common to all of us?
From the particular move to the general, from the general move away still deeper, and there perhaps is this purity of that thing called compassion, love and intelligence. But that means giving your mind and heart to this. Your whole being must be involved in this.
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This is the final dialogue in a series of talks that were published as “The Ending of Time”. The significance of the content of the subject matter is unquantifiable, but nevertheless it may be taken up by the viewer/listener as something that can be replayed whenever one’s interest is renewed. The fact that I can listen to the actual discussions without any third party commentary is most refreshing in today’s world where original content is hard to find. My appreciation for this opportunity is beyond expression!!
Touched many untouched corners
Thank you for sharing. I can listen to these conversations a million times, although K wouldn’t have liked it. There is such power compassion and truth in his voice and Dr. Bohm’s that one feels blessed to be here. Truly grateful.
This message is IT! You don’t need any guru anymore.
There is no K
When he says I can't another human being let him go (into hell).this very compassion is essence of his life long teachings.such a kind soul ,such a heart .I remembered a dialouge from one series he says I want to weep for you , but it can't help you. And such a hard working soul working till death . Surely,this compassion is that absoulute thing which is not change whenever all other things are changing continuously..
It is that compassion which is contagious and powerful in this talk…
... ignites to change.
an absolute masterpiece. the most important talk a human being can see. at least this one saw.
"I can't let another human being go ... I am my brother's keeper." To help him to get out of there, seeing no means any way possible ... heart- wrenching
1:07:42 sense of solitide is common
1:10:33 particular is the abstraction from whole
46:20 love is not personal, grief is not my grief
30:40 why becoming can't stop?
35:45 non verbal communication
Attention, Perception, Intelligence and Love
Basically, at core, all human being are highly SELFISH in all fields of the World and that is the original cause. Becoming is also the result of Selfishness. LOVE can bloom in human heart only in absence of Selfishness.
JK touched & explained profoundly the word " selfish" in his book named Freedom from the known.
👌 still valid after all these years, society has not changed at all. Totally feel the dialogue.
Plato's allegory of the cave is in line with these dialogues. As they point out, humanity has been in this psychological state for thousands of years.
I guess, it will not change after thousands of years in this direction.
"Attention, perception, intelligence and love."
"......but the greatest of these is love"
There is no greatest, you have made a mistake right there,sir!
I have watched again. It feels so much touched each time. Thank you soo much for this series conversations with Dr.bohm. ❤️❤️❤️
I read the book The Ending of Time. When I hear both of these men discuss this content live, it’s a treasure. Thank you for making this footage available.I can reread the book now and have a voice and expressions and gestures to give the words meaning. Wish I had men like them in my life.
You do
Anche io ho il ,libro ",,La fine del Tempo "ma quando ascolto il dialogo dal video e vedo questi due meravigliosi ESSERI SCAMBIARE E INDAGARE ...ALLORA IL TUTTO MI CONPENETRA DI PIU'..... GRAZIEEEEEE, GRAZIEEEEEEEEEEE ❤🎉❤
Fantastic dialogue! What keeps the mind in that fragmented state? On a practical level, one of the main factors is daily work. As I like to say, work is a hard drug. It is easy to see, for example, how someone leaves, jaded, his job, cursing it, but quickly identifies himself with another one, which he will call "my real job", and starts all over again...
Honestly, it is only when the addiction to work ceases that the mind has the energy to observe. When one abandons the blind race for security, based on daily work, inattention can be perceived.
There is an addiction to activity as such (if 'producing' something seemingly useful with an even stronger appeal)
The purpose of such hyperactivity is to stay busy as a way to distract oneself from life as such.
It gives the impression of being the master of one's fate, and hence the creator of life. Nothing could be further from truth.
People always report what they did, never what they perceive - unless related to some sort of self validation.
This includes all the activities to 'be spiritual' and to self gratify also in that way.
what an effort, these conversations are for all BUT every one is not for it, i feel the change thanks for uploading..THANKS K AND B
If im truly honest with myself, the sole reason for my suffering is the hanging on to this identity called "me".
Somehow, even for it brings great pain, at times can get you to the edge of suicide, i still cherish it, because "it" imagines itself that "being" is tied to it and therefore fears loosing it.
And even then, when you are fully aware of it conceptually (thinking mind), it is useless, because it is only theoretical. It is not established in self-knowledge.
To let go of this "me" is harder than anything else in life.
Sodium is Sodium universally. So love is love universally.
Thanks for sharing.
"My responsibility is that I can't let another person go.'
"have we reached somewhere " 🙃😉💥
🙏
That was amazing 🤗 23:38 to 26:37 and the next moments.
They could hardly keep in their joy!!
What a beautiful vision.
True love 💙 two open minds learning in union.
✨🫂💚✨
Thank you 🙏
This is one of the most valuable things, that last conclusion, moving from the particular to the general and from the general to the particular. A common mistake that I indulged into since very young, this notion of being an individual and therefore being individualistic towards many things and later approaching the generality through abstractions. I couldn't see that it was abstract, in a sense that it could be seen in an objective way.
From what is gathered in these talks, K. underlines that we must listen, listen without the presence of a thought. This way we will find love, not the personal love, but the universal love. Which will become present after several moments nourished by out insight, maybe it is better to say, the insight that we have access to.
Exactly... The perception is there. Right now, because it is always right now. The insufficiency of separate identity is grasped, there is no need for it. It's time to realize it, and it's not just talking for the sake of talking. ;-)
@@jorgegarciapla6880 yes there's no need of it, once you realize it, ah, it's a prisonbreak.
@@jorgegarciapla6880 talking for the sake of talking o dear may we get absolutely bored of it finally.
At 56:22 and forward, by saying.."I have a brother...", Jk was indirectly hinting at David Bohm being his brother - whom he deeply love and care. Also, you can see, how David took the hint and (indirectly) spoke of his own difficulty.
Very interesting!
Love is the pure universal energy which can be transmitted
These conversations, excercises on thought, while deeply trying to capture the nature of human conditions, the human mind and its constant cicles and ever changing states, while immersed into various views of each individual and social behaviours, its an excercise that brought treasures from the deep realms of mind to reasonable common sense languages, words, while finding its ways from the subconscious to the conscious, some beautiful gems arises from time to time. As each of these conversations unfolds, valuable piece happens to appear, as an archeologist dig into the unknown and finally find another piece of the whole, each are just parts but meaninful as every small step taken towards the whole. Such beautiful films, interesting colaboration of souls diving into the depths of human souls. Thanks for for the oportunity of having access to these films.
Krishnamurti : “... there perhaps is this purity of that thing called compassion, love, intelligence ....” [1:11:47 - 1:12:06] 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
QED. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Have we gotten somewhere. I think we did. We lost time and molted together. Even when your back in the beginning. Compassion remains. We got somewhere ❤️
This was the day I was born, 9.27.1980
OMG 老師 燃燒起來了 終極 問題 整個宇宙都在奔馳著 如何讓所有人都了悟
You can not get a hold of it nor can you get rid of it, and in not being able to get it you get it. When you speak it silent, when you are silent it speaks.
Dr. Bohm says, "What should I do to give up my opinion ... which seems to be truth ... human problem is insolluable"
Statements from a conditioned heart.
K says, "I can't let my brother go, but he doesn't LIsten!"
Is this"brother" Dr. Bohm?
K says again,"I can't let a human go."
What could have happened if this brother kept himself quiet and LIstened silently ...?
He would get he is the one he is listening to.
JK is probably referring to his own biological brother Nitya.
If u are reading this and u understand what theyr talkin about i would really like to know you. I need someone who i can speak with about such deep questions. I hate the superficiality in this age and day.
Yes dear yes, why not.
I have never commented in a RUclips videos but I would like answer to you. Where are you from?
I have no word for great talk because word is not the thing.
Perchè parliamo spesso del dolore e mostriamo senza pudore anche le piaghe più purolenti, mentre raramente parliamo dell'Amore quello che fa star bene.
Forse perchè il dolore ha bisogno di un terreno contaminato per sopravvivere, l'Amore ha bisogno di un terreno puro, talmente puro che anche la nostra presenza spesso contamina.
I think - 'Staying in it completely without moving anywhere' can make one go deeper into it.
For example - I have problem which generated guilt within myself - so If I stay in it completely without trying to go anywhere else then I have not played any role in particular (as particular will be the old reaction and answers to the same problem which I follow to solve it)
After I stay in it, realize that it's guilt which is the general and when I stay with that also completely, it itself dissolved away as K has pointed out in other videos too.
When general is also dissolved it's hard to say what left - silence is there and energy is accumulated.
Each time when a see a video of 'K' , I realize again I am wrong .
Arun Kumar one should remember that there is no “I” to be right or wrong. Once “I” (distortion) is removed, clarity is there and so dissolves perception of duality.
Sometimes it's because we feel unworthy, that we have problems that are ours alone and only once we have solved them will we able to embrace the world.
I've never heard it been put like that but it's spot on, it seems. David Bohm's remark at 6:38.
super
1:10 - Human beings are drowned by their problems
6:55 - Can I live without a single problem for the rest of my life?
15:45 - How can we all work together?
18:30 - What is attention?
34:38 - How do we help someone to see the danger of becoming?
51:38 - If love is common to us all, why am I blind to it?
Brilliant 🎉
People are just too comfortable with their fragmented conclusions. There are various ways to disrupt these levels of attachment and faith in limited thought, but how do we best do this in the modern world?
K says, Love, as the sense of aloneness, is the common factor for all, then why is it not natural to everyone? Why A, B, C is natural, why not to X, Y, Z, it is not natural? Even to the son is natural but not to his father?
Has he been loved by anyone?
He says, "Love is a part of perception."
Since humanity has been dying, there isn't such thing as LOVE left in human heart ... through conditioning into survival instincts of clever animals.
"At the end of chapter, , I am back at the beginning... A man had taken a wrong turn and entered into a valley where there was no escape. too depressing,, too appalling, The whole thing is sorrow - the way we live is sorrow.....
muito grato...
from which planet these people are.
Whatever that "planet" is, greater harmony is better known.
Planet Earth - just a different dimension where time as we know it ends or is at least blurred.
merci Merci Merci Merci Merci
Thank you merry Xmas JK & David Bohm 🌲💓
Has the deepest part of humanity been corrupted? I don't know if I'm on to something or not.
Has the deepest layer been revealed?
I've seen this with my own eyes how Dementia patients memories can be restored with the power of music. It's like it makes a wormhole to the deepest part of the mind, but the only way the person can get there is through listening to the music. I have a very hard time with listening to todays music. No matter what I do it's there. I can't tell someone to turn it off because that causes conflict, but sometimes I'll get a song stuck in my head for weeks. Does this happen because the song is repetitive? Are the lyrics conflicting? I've faced this and after a long while it will go, but only to be replaced by another song at another time.
To an unborn child with no knowledge Wasn't music here first? What makes up music? I don't know the correct definition. To the untrained senses Is everthing music? What happens when conflict is initiated into the music? Maybe this isn't it. It just appears to be the perfect hiding place. All comments are appreciated even if proven wrong
Tim... you can assume that music has a reality beyond it's earthly expression. Likewise, when a song gets stuck in your mind, repeating itself, you might ask that looping chorus what it's saying in the literal sense and then again, in the figurative sense. Ask what truth its words have for you. And then you'll understand what you have heard was a another song from deeper within that's vying for some attention. When you do, they dissolve more often than not. At other times, the looping segment may be the subconscious need for a distracter, and your mind has selected it because it actually works well enough. Then again, it comes back to attention, which has to go somewhere, even if it's nowhere.
At first glance I didn't connect with what your were saying, but thanks to Richard, I at least have a personal experience of what you're talking about. Having taken an interest in composition, sometimes when I'm deeply inquiring, as with this series of dialogues, just as thought is quieting down, some snippets of songs I've written will start playing in my mind. The parts seem to match the same emotions that are occurring. But I feel it is only a form of thought, nothing more. Maybe the tune is resonating with your current feelings, and memory is "playing" it back.
The "deepest" layer is obviously still thought/idea. "untrained senses"... is it possible to "train" the senses? Isn't that also an idea? Music as such, is a series of notes. Different harmonies resonate with emotions, and the conflict/rise to the climax is a mixture of thought and feeling. Listening to music, in the way K describes listening, is just like the beauty of nature. You can see the great sequoia trees and have all sorts of thoughts, or, you can see the beauty as the simultaneous seeing of order.
Radios and other "sound machines" i heard referred to as "things that sing" and can cause the song to "get stuck" in my head. If i sing a song myself of my choosing, it usually doesn't get stuck in my head. It was a Native American wise woman who called artificial music makers "things that sing". I think it may be the soulless nature of technically "reproduced" music 🎵🎶= not coming from anybody's heart ❤️. And yet these false songs get stuck in my head, too. Almost impossible to avoid in today's world?
👍
Deep sea diving
I just got the impression, that K doesn't really listen to B. It seems, that K is the teacher and B the student .... its not a dialogue on even hight ......
k doesn't seems to listen because he doesn't understand analogies of science and bohm knows this but those analogies are still mentioned for audience sake.
perhaps,K's listening(actual listening) is beyond our understanding.most of us we hear but dont listen actually.
A Buddha's cry........!!!!!
Repeatedly watch 1:00:50 to 1:02:10.......….......
"Every potty little tribe becomes a nation. They have this marvellous technology to kill each other." - How true, the clashes now we see between Armenia, Azerbaijan...
How true...
Unfortunately there's still no sign of man radically changing.
And to be honest things seem to have gotten worse since these recordings.
perhaps they are happy with their conditions.
These teachings are not known to many, personally I found them in my thirties. Neither school, teachers or friends ever mentioned.
🙏🏻
Cannot move foreward
you dont have to. stop that nonsensical idea of moving towards being something better and so on. end it and you see you were always there
it is very impossible without disagreement, that is also a fact,. but it is also possible that in spite of that hard scenario of disagreement seen by a man in prison, all of them who are in disagreement may have no psychological conflict that prevents them to live a good life and would come up with a good understanding of each other... only the man in prison see it as chaos.
David Bohm looks best with his thick glasses.
💥🙏💚💙💛
Jiddo got owned there,, wish I could have heard the answer.
I read numerous of K's books and especially in my youth. I thought somehow his message was profound and especially because I
Oh God. He bleeds!!
28:00
Could it be his sanskar which has to be dealt with..
When he said : the Earth is not french, english, it is The EARTH, i laughed a bit and was like : well almost xD
K a tord de rejeter le particulier comme il le fait. Le moi fait partie de l'existence....et nous devons tous le jouer. Tout est parfait, même l'inconscience, qui un jour éclora en Conscience
They are not meeting each other, cought in a circle, round and round ... Frustrating
Words can only go in circles
Listen carefully. They’re not going in circles. Your impatience projects a sense of repetition
they look like using English word talking something important.