I hate saying this. But i only have a cr*sley. Good news I collect cds now. But im still interested in vinyl records. Edit: to clarify, myain focus is Compact Discs now. Thanks for the advice @Edward E
I bought a Crosley C6 last year and, hear me out, it's great! I believe it's built for them by Pro-Ject. One of the best entry level turntables on the market. You should review!
I have a Project Debut Carbon DC with a few upgrades and like it very much. Between these two I would go with the Fluance for five reasons. 1) Acrylic platter 2)Speed change switch, rather than having to move the belt 3)Auto stop for those times my wife or kids start a record and then get distracted 4) Interchangeable head shell and 5) recessed area on platter for record labels.
@@Santiaguilar98 It's not ass. Let's not insult. We're all civilized here. This is fine as an introduction to vinyl on a few videos I've seen but clearly not indepth in certain topics. I also follow Andrew Robinson, he also gave a good review to the Fluance RT85.
...or how about a comparison of SOUND, the most important feature. It's hard to do that when you're just spouting off specs on something you've never seen before.
I got through half the video and it hit me. You’ve not actually tested the products yourself. Wtf, man? Just ask for some review samples. You are basically comparing two spec sheets and nothing more. I want real impressions. They could be built like a tank on paper, but be very flawed physically.
exactly... and the fact that he awarded zero point for the smart decision of not having any electronics between the cartridge and the output (i.e. a preamp) made me switch this off.
While I appreciate the approach, I don’t think color options should be a “point.” My “point” is only that, most of your viewers are looking for advice, and you (like myself) have been doing this long enough to know that it’s about the build, quantity and quality of the unit, cartridge, etc. We have mirrored personal turntables, as it happened; like you, I went from an upgraded/hot-rodded LP120 to the Fluance RT85. I looked at Project and Rega both, along with Fluance, but for the important things, Fluance was just much better for the money (from cartridge to the far better wow and flutter rate to auto stop); it was just undeniably better, and somehow cheaper? All that I’m trying to suggest is that, while I think most of your comparison videos are accurate, the color thing needs to go, if you’re indeed trying to steer folks to the top get table. Fashion is fine, but this is a function over fashion choice, imho. *none of this is meant as a knock on Project or any other table…I’m just suggesting that the other stuff, is the important stuff, so if someone’s just looking at a scorecard, they might not be getting the best review (if and when color options are a consideration on said review). Just a couple of unsolicited two cents.
You're right. I don't think he has the knowledge or experience to offer a real comparison. It's just "One's available in yellow, so it gets 1 point". :)
There are a ton of audio components out there with near exact specs and pricing so why shouldn't color/aesthetics come into play when making a purchase?
@@ncexnyc4466 bc if you know about what is important for a quality tt, you know color is irrelevant. I have both a Pro-Ject, and a Fluance. The Pro-Ject is the better build, and the Fluance offers more features. I opted for the fluance when I first upgraded, but later switched to the Debut Evo. For most people, the Fluance will not only be adequate, but meaningfully impressive. Full stop. Most listeners won’t ever need more, and there are other links in the chain that can be addressed later, if they aspire for a bit more? What bothered me about this shootout, was it was done on specs, feature sets, and color (the last of which was actually in favor of my preferred of the two). The point is simply that he upgraded and chose the Fluance, as I did, and it was feature set based; he can’t be expected to buy both just for the sake of review, as it would come out of his own pocket, right? Having now owned both, the Pro-Ject is 100% a better built tt. It’s a deck that can be further upgraded via cartridges, platters, and sub-platters to name just a few, but they do cost money, and for most listeners, that upgrade path and price is unnecessary. They’re not wrong; I’m not wrong; you’re not wrong. But. If the mission statement for the video is to give advice to those looking for it based on quality of sound and operation, affording points based on color could effectively tip the scale if someone looks at the final score. I think colorways merit mention, but as an aside, rather than a point of value judgement. Hopefully that further explains my point of view? Best to you. I’m no troll, and am a fan of his content, I simply wish this was removed from the “point” category.
I decided on the Evo from local shop recommendation. When I bought it I also got the Acrylic Platter, and a heavy puck. I couldn’t be happier with the purchase. The 85 would be nice too, but with just a little in upgrades I think the Evo checks more boxes in capabilities. The weight of the turntable is not, IMO, an actual feature. Isolation from vibration externally is more important no matter the weight, so getting an isolation platform for either will improve performance greatly.
I went back and forth on these for weeks when I was looking to buy a new table. I ultimately went with the EVO as the tonearm is superior, and can upgrade to pro-jects acrylic platter in the future. Great breakdown of these great tables!
You can upgrade several pieces on the evo that you can't on the Fluance. The platter, the sub platter, and the power supply can all be upgraded, and you're 100% correct concerning the tone arm as the tone arm on the RT81 and the RT85 are the same so that alone is a HUGE advantage on the Evo.
never noticed that ,in early 70´s when pre-amps were installed on medium range turntables there was no problem of having built in pre-amps ,only a technics sp-10 had a outside pre-amp for mc cartridges
I’m upgrading from the AT60 that I’ve had for 5 years. I’m going with the RT85 mainly for the auto stop. I’m always doing dishes or cooking while I listen to records and I can’t always get up and stop it.
Tonearm - interchange of heads for cart? Feet - can they be adjusted for leveling? I know Fluance can do both. I would say this is more important for points than colors.
you forgot to mention that the RT-85 has 3 cone shapped feet that makes it sooo easy to level and that it has a head shell for ease of cartridge change
The project also has three dampened adjustable feet. Also a TPE isolated motor mount and a carbon fibre tone arm. This is actually a pretty poor comparison, and it’s obvious he hasn’t listened to the tables side by side.
So my wife and parents got me a ProJect Debut Carbon DC EVO for my birthday. That is currently what I'm running. I personally love mine. The first song I played on it was "Sirius" by the Alan Parsons Project. That should be your song of the day.
hi great video one thing the rt85 has over the evo the removeable head shell makes it easier if you wanna up grade the cartridge later have a great week
Changing a cartridge from an upgrade perspective is not very difficult. Honestly unless you’re doing it every week or you constantly switch between 33/45s and 78s there’s no practical value
I went to a record store and I told the guy that I wanted to learn the basics of DJ and mixing...he gave me a gemini SA-2400 Direct Drive turntable for only $30.00. This thing weighs probably close to 30lbs, it's an absolute tank. For those curious, yes it was discontinued in 2005. They were made in 2001-2005.
Very nice review. One comment, on the cartridge points, I feel that the RT85 should have been given the point, as it includes a higher $ value. The Sumiko is $149. and Ortofon Blue is $250. Sound is subjective, but dollars are dollars!
Sorry I’ve watched this video to the very end and Come to a conclusion. It’s an utter waste of time! How can you possibly review a thing by just reading from a spec sheet. A cheap turntable could have the same features as an audio file turntable cost many hundreds or thousands. But build quality, better quality parts and how it sounds are most important . Bearing this in mind the evo is by definition a far better sounding source, almost as good as a Rega P3.
The counterweight is for anti skating - it's purpose is to counteract the tendency of the needle to be thrown towards the edge of the record due to centrifugal force. Tracking force is set at the rear of the arm and remains constant.
I miss the autostop feature on my pro-ject debut carbon dc. It came with an ortofon red cartridge however which is great! I'm not a fan of built-in phono preamps so I directly bought an separate unit.
The EVO comes equipped with a modern microgroove stylus (LP stylus). While the EVO will play 78 rpm, the factory installed LP stylus is not suitable for old shellac records as they used a wide groove stylus (or needle). Modern microgroove 78s will play just fine with this table. I'm also surprised you didn't mention that the EVO has a one piece carbon fiber tone arm. Many argue that that makes a turntable sound much better than other tone arm configurations. For me personally, if the Fluance had 3 speeds and the color options that the EVO has, then the Fluance would be a no brainer. I find tone arms which lack a removable head shell (such as the EVO) to be unnecessarily tedious any time you want or need to replace the stylus.
No points for the industry-leading carbon fibre tonearm? That's surely gotta be worth something. Also, the upgradable sub-platter and platter ability of the Evo is great. Yeh, you get the acrylic platter with the 85, but no sub-platter upgrade leaves it a little behind (as the 85s platter goes straight into the bearing on the plinth so no second layer of dampening there).
Can you change the head shell on the Project ? I am not sure... but the Fluance comes with a head shell that is easily removable... easier to change cartridges. You could even but a second head shell and easily swap between the two, with separate cartridges on each one. Both are great turntables by the way.
@@kevingoodwin5177 No, it is part of the tonearm. Pro-Ject states that having more options on a table leads to additional and unwanted noise. The Sumiko Rainier is a great cart and sounds awesome. I have an ATLP120USB with a 2M Blue on it and the EVO blows it away in richness and full balanced sound. You can't go wrong with either table IMHO - they are just different beasts.
@@kevingoodwin5177 removable headshell means slower transaction between cartridge and tonearm. I never cared for it being removable since it sounds worse.
I'm not interested in upgrading. I just want something that sounds great out of the box. With that in mind, would the RT85 be a better option than the EVO in terms of stock value, sound, and performance?
I have both and these are awesome depending on what you are listening to. RT-85 is more detailed. I definitely like the auto stop feature in Rt-85 because I always fall asleep. Evo is more refined and that's probably why you lose some of that extra details that you get out of RT-85. Your score of 9 & 10 is appropriate. I still like both.
I know alot of people like the RT85 for its automatic stop function.. but if you are looking for good sound quality and build, the evo's arm is much better than the rt85's arm. It's carbon fibre, the top turntables use! Plus if you like acrylic platters you can upgrade that on project carbon evo. I would personally go for the evo, but the RT85 is still a good deck.
I bought the project debut carbon evo and lots of upgrades in the black friday sales over the moon with the project it sounds fantastic, i really like the Fluance rt85 but for 1 thing which is a dealbreaker for me is that i dont like the belt being on the main platter they are supposed to be kept ultra clean and free from dust and being on the outside it gets dirty and if you have small children its a magnet for them to touch and pull but other than that its a lovely turntable.
Aftermarket acrylic platters are available for Pro-Ject (and Music Hall) on eBay and Amazon. 78’s require a special cart!!! Those records will destroy a standard 33/45 cart.
Kinda sad they didnt go into the carts and talk about upgrade path. As the Carbon EVO comes with a Sumiko Rainier cart that is more warm. The best part is you upgrade your sound with just a simple styli upgrade. You can go from the the Sumiko Rainier to Sumiko Olympia or Sumiko Moonstone or even the BRAND NEW Sumiko Wellfleet. The Rainier, Olympia, Moonstone & Wellfleet replacement styli are interchangeable making it a great turntable for future upgrades. Let alone the better tonearm on the Carbon EVO Now the 85 does come with the the nice acrylic but you can upgrade on the EVO for that. It does come with the 2m blue cartridge which sounds great but not as warm (i prefer a warmer tone) now the new Fluance RT85N with the Nagaoka MP-110 cart (warmer tone), this would be more up my ally but still prefer the Carbon EVO as it gives warmer tones i prefer and gives you a way better upgrade path with the cartridges to the sub-platter and platter. I think the EVO should get this due to upgrade path as the whole auto stop feature is nice but for 40 bucks get a Q UP.
I’m glad I was able to scrub. I really wanted to know which is the better turntable. I don’t need a video to go over features that are easy to find on a sales brochure. Does the Project’s carbon fibre arm produce a better sound? Isn’t that the most important thing? The sound?
Just ordered my RT-85N. Decided to go for the Nagaoka MP-100 cartridge instead of the Ortofon 2M Blue as the Nagaoka is slightmy warmer, and is more forgiving on used vinyl, which I guarantee will be 90% of my collection. I feel that the warmth of the Nagaoka will also compliment my taste in music, which is 70's rock and classic and modern metal, especially doom and stoner rock.
I saw a tracking test and the Nagaoka MP100 tracked every single track on the record perfectly, the other similar-priced carts did not. The Ortofon 2M Blue did well in the middle track, but not so well on the other tracks, but it did beat out the others on most tracks just didn't beat out the Nagaoka on all the tracks.
Jared, you awarded a point to the Evo at 1:02 in the video because it could spin 78 RPM shellac records. You probably already know this, but one should use a stylus specifically designed for shellac records, and not the same one used with vinyl records Shellac records will damage the stylii that are designed for vinyl records, so adding a stylus that is explicitly designed for 78s will add expense. If I wanted to spin shellac records, I would probably use a different turntable equipped with a different cartridge and stylus altogether. I have some very old shellac records that were given to me from my family, but I doubt that I'll play any of them.
For me it's the Fluance RT85. Because a friend of mine, swears by his. Better to swear by your turntable, than to swear at it - as you will with a Crosley Cruiser.
I decided to assign my own points based on my personal needs. This is how I did it: Price: Both the same price, both get a point Speed: I don’t have 78s, nor do I plan on collecting them, both get a point Motors: Both belt driven, both get a point Build quality: RT85 is heavier, it gets a point Platter: RT85 has an acrylic platter, it gets a point Colours: I don’t care about colours, neither get a point Cartridge: They’re cartridges are comparable, both get a point Preamp: Neither have built-in, neither get a point Operation: RT85 is semi-automatic, it gets a point Counterweight: Both have adjustable counterweight, both get a point USB functionality: Neither have USB, neither get a point Ease of setup: Both have prealigned Cartradges, both get a point Accessories: RT85 comes with white gloves, but I can just get cheap rubber gloves, both get a point Neither are Crosley Cruisers, both get a point I know what I’m buying
Hello Jared, I’ve got a question about a preamp, I’ve got a pioneer turntable model # PL-400 hooked up to my Sony receiver STR-DH 190 & I think I need a preamp cuz I have to turn up my volume to like 50 to play my vinyls records & when I play CD’s….. I need to turn the volume way down 😞 any recommendations for a preamp??
One giant feature you failed to mention the tonearm on the EVO - it is light years ahead of the RT85. It is made of carbon fiber and offers amazing rigidity. Plus every Pro-Ject deck is hand built in-house in Europe versus the 3rd party assembly of Fluance tables produced in Taiwan.
i own a pl-15 and a pl-12 from 72 and 74 from pioneer, also a SL-1200 from 72 and a thorens professional range from 1970 ,later i bought a SL-1000mkII ,a SL-3310 in 76 from technics also a pair of SL-1200mkII(for my work as a dj for 35 years( they never gave me problems) from 78 maybe ,also a plc-590(or close) and a PL-560 from pioneer these from late 70´s, in early 80´s i bought a thorens TD-something and a Dual that came with a ortofon OM type but with dual written on the cartridge, only in the 90´s i bought a dragon from nakamichi and a grundig conesseur built by thorens with ortofon mc type needle ,also had for a short period of time a pioneer PL-430 from 83 if memory doesn´t fail me , it was good and well built but i heard from others that it gave problems in the anti-skating function like from one section of an Lp it started to not allow the stylus to go till the end but either than that was heavy and had a very dynamic sound with a audio-technica stylus , some do not know that A.T. was considered one of the best brands in the world for stylus and cartridges. 70´s audiophiles used a lot expensive cartridges and stylus from A.T. also Shure
Perhaps you should mention that if a novice LP player and collector and if you should find a 78 RPM at lets say "Goodwill" and you are just curious as to how they sound, if you play that record with a standard stylus such as the Sumiko Ranier or the Ortofon 2M Blue, you will literally tear it to shreds and hence, the demise of your cartridge. I'm not convinced that 78 RPM capability is all that great a function and actually invites the potential for disaster! I own a really old Linn Sondek LP 12 (got it used from a friend 30 years ago) which has gone through several clinics and upgrades but already, these are outdated. It really is a great turntable but just getting too pricey. I own a Thorens TD 206 (one of the modern ones - gloss white) with an Ortofon 2M Blue in a 2nd system. Very fond of it but I don't think the new Thorens line is doing very well against the likes of Pro-ject and Rega so not sure how much longer they will be around. The vinyl revolution has brought some amazing turntables to market but I'm sure there are going to be casualties.
This video is the result of comparing 2 turntables that you clearly haven't tested and know nothing about aside from info pulled straight from the spec sheet. Skip this one, folks.
Song of the day: U.K. Thirty years By the way, I am getting higher pitch at 33rpm, like 2-5Hz higher. What is usually the cause of that? One more thing: the phono amp with an active speaker but lowest volume still outputs a fairly big volume, is that normal? (I have to attach another standard preamp to lower the volume）
At the part with the usb connection, you could have said that because they both don't have a preamp build in to them that you can use a preamp with a usb output, or a mixer with a usb output, or one of those tascam recorders.
Hey Jarrett! Here is an idea, I noticed that people use bookshelf speakers more often for vinyl. I was wondering if you could make a video if you should use a bookshelf or tower speakers for vinyl.
Keep in mind the rt85 can take up to 30 seconds to auto stop. Unless you’re falling asleep all the time while listening to records, the auto stop isn’t worth all that much when it’s not auto especially given you have to get up anyways to change sides or records
Asking this, Jarred: Does the Evo have four leveling feet like other turntables, or does it use the three leveling feet like the RT85? For me, the three-feet leveling system on the RT85 made things very simple to balance.
yep, 78's are not meant for any kind of audiophile table, in fact they will destroy a modern high quality stylus. 78's originated on the old wind up gramaphones, why would anyone want to put one on a fine quality talbe - but you can if you change to a special cartridge -- myself I could care less about 78's
I have the Evo with the upgraded acrylic platter. I did not care for the cartridge it came with. The highs were too rolled off and the bass was not very tight. You can upgrade just the stylus but I went with a 2M Bronze from Ortofon instead. The 2M blue is fantastic. I have one on my RT81. In my opinion, unless you plan to spend a little more money to upgrade the Evo, the RT85 is better out of box.
My thought exactly! I'm currently testing both and one will go back at the end of the month- my guess is the Evo because I fell asleep and woke up the next morning with the record still spinning. The auto stop feature on the RT85 really does it for me.
What about leveling the turntable? The rt 85 comes with a bubble level to make it easier to level. Does the evo come with one? I've got the rt 82, so my vote is for the rt 85.
Nice video, but minor disagreement as to a heavier table being better. This is true MOST of the time, only. There were/are some lightweights that are truly excellent.
@@thomaswilson4441 the top shelf of my stand can be levelled since it sits on adjustable nuts & bolts. I levelled it using a carpenter's level. I made sure the 3 adjustable feet on the turntable were at their lowest points. I then put the level directly on top of the turntable & it didn't need adjustment.
@@johnrampoldi thanks for your response, I had the same thought with a carpenters level, and I’m practically sold on the pro-ject, but was unaware of the adjustable nuts and not sure if there was a built in level like other turntables have.
Except the platter on the carbon evo is heavier? Seems like an odd thing to get wrong unless you didn’t do that much research. And also a 3 pound difference in turntables is down to platters? The evo has much more in the way of active dampening, better isolated motor, sub platter, better feet, more active dampening in the platter on the feet with their TPE. the fluance might still be better but you surely can’t make this statement on specs alone
What Turntable Do YOU Have? Tell me below 😎👇
I hate saying this. But i only have a cr*sley. Good news I collect cds now. But im still interested in vinyl records.
Edit: to clarify, myain focus is Compact Discs now. Thanks for the advice @Edward E
Sansui sr-212
I have the infamous Technics SL-1200....
I bought a Crosley C6 last year and, hear me out, it's great! I believe it's built for them by Pro-Ject. One of the best entry level turntables on the market. You should review!
I have a rega planar 2,lovely deck.
Upgraded the cartridge,nice warm sound.Have owned this since 1995 and I'm not swapping..!
Stay safe.
😎❤✌
I’ve had the RT85 for the past year and a half and I’ve absolutely loved it. A beautiful centerpiece for my media center as well
I have a Project Debut Carbon DC with a few upgrades and like it very much. Between these two I would go with the Fluance for five reasons. 1) Acrylic platter 2)Speed change switch, rather than having to move the belt 3)Auto stop for those times my wife or kids start a record and then get distracted 4) Interchangeable head shell and 5) recessed area on platter for record labels.
This is a very superficial comparison. What about difference in tone arm quality, build materials, removable headshell?
This channel is ass if you’re a true audio enthusiast. Watch Andrew Robinson. Modern TRUE hifi enthusiasts that hits all those points
@@Santiaguilar98 It's not ass. Let's not insult. We're all civilized here. This is fine as an introduction to vinyl on a few videos I've seen but clearly not indepth in certain topics. I also follow Andrew Robinson, he also gave a good review to the Fluance RT85.
...or how about a comparison of SOUND, the most important feature. It's hard to do that when you're just spouting off specs on something you've never seen before.
I got through half the video and it hit me. You’ve not actually tested the products yourself. Wtf, man? Just ask for some review samples. You are basically comparing two spec sheets and nothing more. I want real impressions. They could be built like a tank on paper, but be very flawed physically.
Only one is made in China, it should be a no brainer...
When sound is the most important feature it seems idiotic to review something based on specs alone.
@@roof8978 it's also pointless without same speakers
exactly... and the fact that he awarded zero point for the smart decision of not having any electronics between the cartridge and the output (i.e. a preamp) made me switch this off.
Just saying there’s an RT-85 *RIGHT BEHIND HIM*
Yes, the article is old, but... You make a turntable comparison without ever having heard both turntables? OK... Brave.
Song of the day: Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey - Paul McCartney
And Linda McCartney
While I appreciate the approach, I don’t think color options should be a “point.”
My “point” is only that, most of your viewers are looking for advice, and you (like myself) have been doing this long enough to know that it’s about the build, quantity and quality of the unit, cartridge, etc.
We have mirrored personal turntables, as it happened; like you, I went from an upgraded/hot-rodded LP120 to the Fluance RT85.
I looked at Project and Rega both, along with Fluance, but for the important things, Fluance was just much better for the money (from cartridge to the far better wow and flutter rate to auto stop); it was just undeniably better, and somehow cheaper?
All that I’m trying to suggest is that, while I think most of your comparison videos are accurate, the color thing needs to go, if you’re indeed trying to steer folks to the top get table.
Fashion is fine, but this is a function over fashion choice, imho.
*none of this is meant as a knock on Project or any other table…I’m just suggesting that the other stuff, is the important stuff, so if someone’s just looking at a scorecard, they might not be getting the best review (if and when color options are a consideration on said review).
Just a couple of unsolicited two cents.
You're right. I don't think he has the knowledge or experience to offer a real comparison. It's just "One's available in yellow, so it gets 1 point". :)
You wrote all of that because of its aesthetics 😂
There are a ton of audio components out there with near exact specs and pricing so why shouldn't color/aesthetics come into play when making a purchase?
@@ncexnyc4466 bc if you know about what is important for a quality tt, you know color is irrelevant. I have both a Pro-Ject, and a Fluance. The Pro-Ject is the better build, and the Fluance offers more features. I opted for the fluance when I first upgraded, but later switched to the Debut Evo. For most people, the Fluance will not only be adequate, but meaningfully impressive. Full stop. Most listeners won’t ever need more, and there are other links in the chain that can be addressed later, if they aspire for a bit more?
What bothered me about this shootout, was it was done on specs, feature sets, and color (the last of which was actually in favor of my preferred of the two).
The point is simply that he upgraded and chose the Fluance, as I did, and it was feature set based; he can’t be expected to buy both just for the sake of review, as it would come out of his own pocket, right?
Having now owned both, the Pro-Ject is 100% a better built tt. It’s a deck that can be further upgraded via cartridges, platters, and sub-platters to name just a few, but they do cost money, and for most listeners, that upgrade path and price is unnecessary. They’re not wrong; I’m not wrong; you’re not wrong.
But. If the mission statement for the video is to give advice to those looking for it based on quality of sound and operation, affording points based on color could effectively tip the scale if someone looks at the final score. I think colorways merit mention, but as an aside, rather than a point of value judgement.
Hopefully that further explains my point of view? Best to you. I’m no troll, and am a fan of his content, I simply wish this was removed from the “point” category.
@@christopherklinck Fair enough and thanks for taking the time to respond. Hopefully nobody spends close to $500.00 based on one person's review.
I’ve had the rt85 for about a year now and I love it. Sounds great and it looks absolutely stunning. 10/10
I love how he always gives points for them not being Crosley cruisers lol
I decided on the Evo from local shop recommendation. When I bought it I also got the Acrylic Platter, and a heavy puck. I couldn’t be happier with the purchase. The 85 would be nice too, but with just a little in upgrades I think the Evo checks more boxes in capabilities. The weight of the turntable is not, IMO, an actual feature. Isolation from vibration externally is more important no matter the weight, so getting an isolation platform for either will improve performance greatly.
I love my RT-85! I’ve owned it for 4 years now. Your comparison of different turntables helped me to pick the RT-85. Much appreciated!
I went back and forth on these for weeks when I was looking to buy a new table. I ultimately went with the EVO as the tonearm is superior, and can upgrade to pro-jects acrylic platter in the future.
Great breakdown of these great tables!
You can upgrade several pieces on the evo that you can't on the Fluance. The platter, the sub platter, and the power supply can all be upgraded, and you're 100% correct concerning the tone arm as the tone arm on the RT81 and the RT85 are the same so that alone is a HUGE advantage on the Evo.
I couldn't be happier with my RT85, the price really scared me at first but after I bought it the quality of everything in it amazed me.
It's best to use an external preamp, its always better than what's built in!
never noticed that ,in early 70´s when pre-amps were installed on medium range turntables there was no problem of having built in pre-amps ,only a technics sp-10 had a outside pre-amp for mc cartridges
finally someone said it
Also depends where you are. Here in the UK Fluance are not in the shops so would be extra for delivery
I’m upgrading from the AT60 that I’ve had for 5 years. I’m going with the RT85 mainly for the auto stop. I’m always doing dishes or cooking while I listen to records and I can’t always get up and stop it.
Tonearm - interchange of heads for cart? Feet - can they be adjusted for leveling? I know Fluance can do both. I would say this is more important for points than colors.
You can adjust the feet on the Evo and you can also change out the cart on the evo. It's a wash there.
you forgot to mention that the RT-85 has 3 cone shapped feet that makes it sooo easy to level and that it has a head shell for ease of cartridge change
The project also has three dampened adjustable feet. Also a TPE isolated motor mount and a carbon fibre tone arm. This is actually a pretty poor comparison, and it’s obvious he hasn’t listened to the tables side by side.
So my wife and parents got me a ProJect Debut Carbon DC EVO for my birthday. That is currently what I'm running. I personally love mine. The first song I played on it was "Sirius" by the Alan Parsons Project. That should be your song of the day.
hi great video one thing the rt85 has over the evo the removeable head shell makes it easier if you wanna up grade the cartridge later have a great week
Changing a cartridge from an upgrade perspective is not very difficult. Honestly unless you’re doing it every week or you constantly switch between 33/45s and 78s there’s no practical value
probably should add a listening test with both turntables using the same cartridge
I went to a record store and I told the guy that I wanted to learn the basics of DJ and mixing...he gave me a gemini SA-2400 Direct Drive turntable for only $30.00. This thing weighs probably close to 30lbs, it's an absolute tank.
For those curious, yes it was discontinued in 2005. They were made in 2001-2005.
I have the Fluance. It is amazing. I love hearing my old vinyl again.
Very nice review. One comment, on the cartridge points, I feel that the RT85 should have been given the point, as it includes a higher $ value. The Sumiko is $149. and Ortofon Blue is $250. Sound is subjective, but dollars are dollars!
Sorry I’ve watched this video to the very end and Come to a conclusion. It’s an utter waste of time!
How can you possibly review a thing by just reading from a spec sheet.
A cheap turntable could have the same features as an audio file turntable cost many hundreds or thousands.
But build quality, better quality parts and how it sounds are most important .
Bearing this in mind the evo is by definition a far better sounding source, almost as good as a Rega P3.
The counterweight is for anti skating - it's purpose is to counteract the tendency of the needle to be thrown towards the edge of the record due to centrifugal force. Tracking force is set at the rear of the arm and remains constant.
I miss the autostop feature on my pro-ject debut carbon dc. It came with an ortofon red cartridge however which is great! I'm not a fan of built-in phono preamps so I directly bought an separate unit.
The EVO comes equipped with a modern microgroove stylus (LP stylus). While the EVO will play 78 rpm, the factory installed LP stylus is not suitable for old shellac records as they used a wide groove stylus (or needle). Modern microgroove 78s will play just fine with this table.
I'm also surprised you didn't mention that the EVO has a one piece carbon fiber tone arm. Many argue that that makes a turntable sound much better than other tone arm configurations.
For me personally, if the Fluance had 3 speeds and the color options that the EVO has, then the Fluance would be a no brainer. I find tone arms which lack a removable head shell (such as the EVO) to be unnecessarily tedious any time you want or need to replace the stylus.
Replacing the stylus os easy, it's removing the complete cartridge that's a little bit of a hassle. No features at the cost of performance though!
No points for the industry-leading carbon fibre tonearm? That's surely gotta be worth something. Also, the upgradable sub-platter and platter ability of the Evo is great. Yeh, you get the acrylic platter with the 85, but no sub-platter upgrade leaves it a little behind (as the 85s platter goes straight into the bearing on the plinth so no second layer of dampening there).
Can you change the head shell on the Project ? I am not sure... but the Fluance comes with a head shell that is easily removable... easier to change cartridges. You could even but a second head shell and easily swap between the two, with separate cartridges on each one. Both are great turntables by the way.
@@kevingoodwin5177 No, it is part of the tonearm. Pro-Ject states that having more options on a table leads to additional and unwanted noise. The Sumiko Rainier is a great cart and sounds awesome. I have an ATLP120USB with a 2M Blue on it and the EVO blows it away in richness and full balanced sound. You can't go wrong with either table IMHO - they are just different beasts.
@@kevingoodwin5177 removable headshell means slower transaction between cartridge and tonearm. I never cared for it being removable since it sounds worse.
Based on the grading scale, it should be worth at least 2 points... Maybe he's trying to justify his purchase of the 85.
I'm not interested in upgrading. I just want something that sounds great out of the box. With that in mind, would the RT85 be a better option than the EVO in terms of stock value, sound, and performance?
yes
Song of the day: Heartaches - Al Bowlly.
yoo how the burtacks git song iof day lmaoooo!!!
I have both and these are awesome depending on what you are listening to. RT-85 is more detailed. I definitely like the auto stop feature in Rt-85 because I always fall asleep. Evo is more refined and that's probably why you lose some of that extra details that you get out of RT-85. Your score of 9 & 10 is appropriate. I still like both.
I know alot of people like the RT85 for its automatic stop function.. but if you are looking for good sound quality and build, the evo's arm is much better than the rt85's arm. It's carbon fibre, the top turntables use! Plus if you like acrylic platters you can upgrade that on project carbon evo. I would personally go for the evo, but the RT85 is still a good deck.
I really want the evo but the autostop is what’s splitting me
I am split between this too!
I bought the project debut carbon evo and lots of upgrades in the black friday sales over the moon with the project it sounds fantastic, i really like the Fluance rt85 but for 1 thing which is a dealbreaker for me is that i dont like the belt being on the main platter they are supposed to be kept ultra clean and free from dust and being on the outside it gets dirty and if you have small children its a magnet for them to touch and pull but other than that its a lovely turntable.
Ima a diehard 1200 fan. Good review though 👍
Song of the Day: Goodbye Look by Donald Fagen
You haven't heard the Eve turntable? What's the point of reviewing it, then?
Aftermarket acrylic platters are available for Pro-Ject (and Music Hall) on eBay and Amazon.
78’s require a special cart!!! Those records will destroy a standard 33/45 cart.
You should include wow and flutter in these showdowns
Kinda sad they didnt go into the carts and talk about upgrade path. As the Carbon EVO comes with a Sumiko Rainier cart that is more warm. The best part is you upgrade your sound with just a simple styli upgrade.
You can go from the the Sumiko Rainier to Sumiko Olympia or Sumiko Moonstone or even the BRAND NEW Sumiko Wellfleet. The Rainier, Olympia, Moonstone & Wellfleet replacement styli are interchangeable making it a great turntable for future upgrades. Let alone the better tonearm on the Carbon EVO
Now the 85 does come with the the nice acrylic but you can upgrade on the EVO for that. It does come with the 2m blue cartridge which sounds great but not as warm (i prefer a warmer tone)
now the new Fluance RT85N with the Nagaoka MP-110 cart (warmer tone), this would be more up my ally but still prefer the Carbon EVO as it gives warmer tones i prefer and gives you a way better upgrade path with the cartridges to the sub-platter and platter.
I think the EVO should get this due to upgrade path as the whole auto stop feature is nice but for 40 bucks get a Q UP.
I’m glad I was able to scrub. I really wanted to know which is the better turntable. I don’t need a video to go over features that are easy to find on a sales brochure. Does the Project’s carbon fibre arm produce a better sound? Isn’t that the most important thing? The sound?
Just ordered my RT-85N. Decided to go for the Nagaoka MP-100 cartridge instead of the Ortofon 2M Blue as the Nagaoka is slightmy warmer, and is more forgiving on used vinyl, which I guarantee will be 90% of my collection. I feel that the warmth of the Nagaoka will also compliment my taste in music, which is 70's rock and classic and modern metal, especially doom and stoner rock.
I saw a tracking test and the Nagaoka MP100 tracked every single track on the record perfectly, the other similar-priced carts did not. The Ortofon 2M Blue did well in the middle track, but not so well on the other tracks, but it did beat out the others on most tracks just didn't beat out the Nagaoka on all the tracks.
Jared, you awarded a point to the Evo at 1:02 in the video because it could spin 78 RPM shellac records. You probably already know this, but one should use a stylus specifically designed for shellac records, and not the same one used with vinyl records Shellac records will damage the stylii that are designed for vinyl records, so adding a stylus that is explicitly designed for 78s will add expense.
If I wanted to spin shellac records, I would probably use a different turntable equipped with a different cartridge and stylus altogether. I have some very old shellac records that were given to me from my family, but I doubt that I'll play any of them.
For me it's the Fluance RT85. Because a friend of mine, swears by his.
Better to swear by your turntable, than to swear at it - as you will with a Crosley Cruiser.
I have the RT85 and am sold on the acrylic platter and Ortofon Blue cartridge. Purchased separately the cartridge is expensive.
Forgot about the “Tonearms” :(
Hi, nice comparison. The Fluance should get a point for it's removable head shell
I decided to assign my own points based on my personal needs. This is how I did it:
Price:
Both the same price, both get a point
Speed:
I don’t have 78s, nor do I plan on collecting them, both get a point
Motors:
Both belt driven, both get a point
Build quality:
RT85 is heavier, it gets a point
Platter:
RT85 has an acrylic platter, it gets a point
Colours:
I don’t care about colours, neither get a point
Cartridge:
They’re cartridges are comparable, both get a point
Preamp:
Neither have built-in, neither get a point
Operation:
RT85 is semi-automatic, it gets a point
Counterweight:
Both have adjustable counterweight, both get a point
USB functionality:
Neither have USB, neither get a point
Ease of setup:
Both have prealigned Cartradges, both get a point
Accessories: RT85 comes with white gloves, but I can just get cheap rubber gloves, both get a point
Neither are Crosley Cruisers, both get a point
I know what I’m buying
Song of the day:
Where dead angels lie by dissection
The Fluance has greater mass, better platter, better feet adjustment, better cartridge and the auto stop feature. The Project has the better tonearm.
Plus, the fluance actually performs quite better.
Song of the day: rainbow kitten surprise - goodnight chicago
Song Of The Day: Constant Disasters - When Particles Colide
My turn table weighs in at 31 lbs. I paid $200 used for it from my brother. Technics SL-1200.
I bought a 85. The deal maker was easily swappable cartridge-headshell units. My Debut III is fine but a fiddle to swap cartridges.
Hello Jared, I’ve got a question about a preamp, I’ve got a pioneer turntable model # PL-400 hooked up to my Sony receiver STR-DH 190 & I think I need a preamp cuz I have to turn up my volume to like 50 to play my vinyls records & when I play CD’s….. I need to turn the volume way down 😞 any recommendations for a preamp??
I prefer a TT without a built-in preamp. It allows greater flexibility in improving its sound
One giant feature you failed to mention the tonearm on the EVO - it is light years ahead of the RT85. It is made of carbon fiber and offers amazing rigidity. Plus every Pro-Ject deck is hand built in-house in Europe versus the 3rd party assembly of Fluance tables produced in Taiwan.
hand built in-house in Europe sounds better but is it really??
i own a pl-15 and a pl-12 from 72 and 74 from pioneer, also a SL-1200 from 72 and a thorens professional range from 1970 ,later i bought a SL-1000mkII ,a SL-3310 in 76 from technics also a pair of SL-1200mkII(for my work as a dj for 35 years( they never gave me problems) from 78 maybe ,also a plc-590(or close) and a PL-560 from pioneer these from late 70´s, in early 80´s i bought a thorens TD-something and a Dual that came with a ortofon OM type but with dual written on the cartridge, only in the 90´s i bought a dragon from nakamichi and a grundig conesseur built by thorens with ortofon mc type needle ,also had for a short period of time a pioneer PL-430 from 83 if memory doesn´t fail me , it was good and well built but i heard from others that it gave problems in the anti-skating function like from one section of an Lp it started to not allow the stylus to go till the end but either than that was heavy and had a very dynamic sound with a audio-technica stylus , some do not know that A.T. was considered one of the best brands in the world for stylus and cartridges. 70´s audiophiles used a lot expensive cartridges and stylus from A.T. also Shure
Song Of The Day: Eye In The Sky by The Alan Parsons Project.
How so you not discuss the cartridge that comes with these turntables? Perhaps the most important feature.
Perhaps you should mention that if a novice LP player and collector and if you should find a 78 RPM at lets say "Goodwill" and you are just curious as to how they sound, if you play that record with a standard stylus such as the Sumiko Ranier or the Ortofon 2M Blue, you will literally tear it to shreds and hence, the demise of your cartridge. I'm not convinced that 78 RPM capability is all that great a function and actually invites the potential for disaster! I own a really old Linn Sondek LP 12 (got it used from a friend 30 years ago) which has gone through several clinics and upgrades but already, these are outdated. It really is a great turntable but just getting too pricey. I own a Thorens TD 206 (one of the modern ones - gloss white) with an Ortofon 2M Blue in a 2nd system. Very fond of it but I don't think the new Thorens line is doing very well against the likes of Pro-ject and Rega so not sure how much longer they will be around. The vinyl revolution has brought some amazing turntables to market but I'm sure there are going to be casualties.
This video is the result of comparing 2 turntables that you clearly haven't tested and know nothing about aside from info pulled straight from the spec sheet. Skip this one, folks.
Super informative ! 😁
Song of the day Your song=Elton John
I own a RT85...it was an upgrade from my years old AT-LP120USB
Song of the day: U.K. Thirty years
By the way, I am getting higher pitch at 33rpm, like 2-5Hz higher. What is usually the cause of that?
One more thing: the phono amp with an active speaker but lowest volume still outputs a fairly big volume, is that normal? (I have to attach another standard preamp to lower the volume）
At the part with the usb connection, you could have said that because they both don't have a preamp build in to them that you can use a preamp with a usb output, or a mixer with a usb output, or one of those tascam recorders.
Song of the day: Slowdive - Sleep
Really? A point for color choice? How about which one SOUNDS better? That's kinda the point.
Song of the day - “Sweet Emotion” by Faith No More
Both of them......... Are not Crosley Cruisers.
Cracks me up every time! Lol
The Reiner cartridge
Is a warm sounding cartridge
Compared to the 2m blue
Hey Jarrett! Here is an idea, I noticed that people use bookshelf speakers more often for vinyl. I was wondering if you could make a video if you should use a bookshelf or tower speakers for vinyl.
Song of the day: Don't - Ed Sheeran
Hey Clacker7! Thanks for being here! 👍
I’m torn between the two but I really do want an auto stop so, most likely will go the rt85 route. Can always upgrade the cartridge
Keep in mind the rt85 can take up to 30 seconds to auto stop. Unless you’re falling asleep all the time while listening to records, the auto stop isn’t worth all that much when it’s not auto especially given you have to get up anyways to change sides or records
Thumbs up for the TOOL shirt 🙂
Asking this, Jarred: Does the Evo have four leveling feet like other turntables, or does it use the three leveling feet like the RT85? For me, the three-feet leveling system on the RT85 made things very simple to balance.
My Evo has 3 feet
Thanks we can read the spec sheets of both turntables too. What value are you adding to it? SMH
I have a "fluance RT84" and I absolutely love it! I don't need 78, I'm into hi fidelity! 78 records ain't!
yep, 78's are not meant for any kind of audiophile table, in fact they will destroy a modern high quality stylus. 78's originated on the old wind up gramaphones, why would anyone want to put one on a fine quality talbe - but you can if you change to a special cartridge -- myself I could care less about 78's
I have the Evo with the upgraded acrylic platter. I did not care for the cartridge it came with. The highs were too rolled off and the bass was not very tight. You can upgrade just the stylus but I went with a 2M Bronze from Ortofon instead. The 2M blue is fantastic. I have one on my RT81. In my opinion, unless you plan to spend a little more money to upgrade the Evo, the RT85 is better out of box.
My thought exactly! I'm currently testing both and one will go back at the end of the month- my guess is the Evo because I fell asleep and woke up the next morning with the record still spinning. The auto stop feature on the RT85 really does it for me.
What about leveling the turntable? The rt 85 comes with a bubble level to make it easier to level. Does the evo come with one? I've got the rt 82, so my vote is for the rt 85.
Following
I'm not gonna pick a table because of a 5 dollar accessory
@@cobrakill4636 That's true. You pick it for the overall performance. Check the wow and flutter.
And with 0.08% of wow and flutter, The Fluance wins this one.
The project debut carbon has 0.17%
Nice video, but minor disagreement as to a heavier table being better. This is true MOST of the time, only. There were/are some lightweights that are truly excellent.
I own the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon EVO in walnut.
That thing is sexy, how did you level it
@@thomaswilson4441 the top shelf of my stand can be levelled since it sits on adjustable nuts & bolts. I levelled it using a carpenter's level. I made sure the 3 adjustable feet on the turntable were at their lowest points. I then put the level directly on top of the turntable & it didn't need adjustment.
@@johnrampoldi thanks for your response, I had the same thought with a carpenters level, and I’m practically sold on the pro-ject, but was unaware of the adjustable nuts and not sure if there was a built in level like other turntables have.
@@thomaswilson4441 just to clarify, the adjustable nuts are on on my audio rack, the turntable's level can be adjusted by turning the 3 feet
@@johnrampoldi understood thanks for that
Love these comparison vids brother. You rock!!!
Except the platter on the carbon evo is heavier? Seems like an odd thing to get wrong unless you didn’t do that much research. And also a 3 pound difference in turntables is down to platters? The evo has much more in the way of active dampening, better isolated motor, sub platter, better feet, more active dampening in the platter on the feet with their TPE. the fluance might still be better but you surely can’t make this statement on specs alone
Will Klipsch R-51PM Powered Bluetooth Speaker work with Fluance RT85?
Got a Debut Carbon Evo for 320€ a week ago and im insanely happy
Hey Jarrett, can you bring back the sexy short haircut you wear so well lol. Thanks for the update on these tables.
Almost like being in love - Frank Sinatra
I have a PRO-JECT Perspex magnetic suspension turntable.
Just wondering, Do yoy have any Green Day?
Song of the day: Shine on you crazy diamond parts 1 to 5 / Pink Floyd
The electric flag - another country!!!
Song of the day please!
Since the Fluance turntable don't come with pitch adjustment option, is the playing pitch correct in it?
Jarrett, your record in the background of segments is spinning backwards!
Great video, informative as usual!
Song of the day: Stereotomy Two by The Alan Parsons Project
Jarrett, do you REALLY pass the vibe check?
I do 😎👍
@@vinyleyezz lucky. I've been trying for months now, even bought a bunch of records lol
I do have a quick question here. Would it be advisable to put a Nagaoka MP110 on a U-Turn Orbit?
I don't see why not