Dear Skallagrim! My name is Barney and I'm a former member of the Familia Gladiatoria Pannonica, Europe's first gladiator reenactment group founded in Hungary in 1986. I am intimately familiar with The Scissor and I can also tell you what exactly it is and what it was used for. First, you need to understand is that gladiators had certain 'weapon classes'. You had the Secutor, the Myrmillo, the Retiarius et cetera. However, not all gladiators classes fought all gladiator classes. The matchups were custom, and different classes were matched against each other based on a number of things, partly historical-religious-spiritual, party simply what was entertaining to watch. The object in question was used by a class we called 'Scissor', so we adressed the combatant by this term, rather than his tool, but you could argue that we named the class after his tool, but regardless... The Scissor exclusively fought the Retiarius. And the Retiarius was the gladiator armed with the Trident-Dagger-Net trio. The Scissor was a fighter wearing heavy armor (lot's of chainmail) and had very few and very small target areas the trident wielding Retiarius could strike. He had a gladius as you said it yourself and the scissor itself. Against him, you had the Retiarius with next to no armor apart from a so called 'manica' which protected one arm and offered some minimal protection to the head and as I've mentioned, a trident, a dagger and a net. That was it. The role of the scissor was not a primary weapon meant to damage the retiarius (although it could be used as such in a pinch), rather, it was a tool to deprive the Retiarius of his net. We had a number of choreographies around this and it works really well, the net becomes almost entirely useless as soon as it touches the scissor itself. I cannot say how historically accurate this thesis is because I was just a fighter, my primary concern was doing choreographies or free-fight where I simply wanted to win (I was a Retiarius myself), but I do know that the event organisers and our leaders did research on the subject so we definitely hold 'some' historical credibility. I hope this cleared up your confusion about this unusual item, I will be the first to say that without a net in the picture it's pretty useless compared to a sword for example.
I remember when I managed to tangle the scissors' scissor and his gladius together to make him completely defenceless. I am not sure if it was a choreography that I fucked up this way or a free fight that I won this way, but I regardless, it was fun :)
Huh, if that is true, I guess the depiction in the Asterix comics does have some merit to it then. I do remember gladiators that were holding a trident and a net.
Guys, its a gladiatorial weapon, so its probably more for the audiences fun than its practical effectiveness. Broken wrists would be so much fun to watch.
Which is why they made gladiators fight with them. They spent the money on it for parties they are going to use it for parties. Wellll parties like watching dudes kill each other and eating like bread or something cause pizza wasnt invented yet.
StateWaffles Just think though, if he were dual wielding those. That would be an epic battle. He could also mix a gigantic bowl of cake batter with them.
No, it cannot. Everyone _knows_ that the katana is the most powerful sword to ever be created, and it's te only one that can cut through 1 metre of titanium alloy without any damage being done to the blade.
as far as i know, the scissor was made to defend the net of retarius and the the gladius, the second wepon of the scissor was the offensiv wappon. in this point, i think, a more roundet shape would make a bit more sense
***** Blackpowder cannons does not have threads and they were sometimes used like massive shotguns. Load a canister of ballbearings into it and point it at the nearest infantryline
+Joel Davis ew gross. And no way this is a quality weapon, it's not heavy at all. A halberd is the perfect example of a quality weapon, it's heavy and requires skill. This, at most, would require 12 str. Probably 14-18 dex with D scaling, and fully upgraded B scaling.
I could be wrong but the shape of them looks like they could be prosthetics rather than a weapon they held. The guy with the reproduction has a narrow one but there's still a pronounced step at the end where the carvings look like they narrow to a point where the hand is. It kind of makes sense that it is a prosthetic, at least to me. If your prize fighter loses the left hand they won't be able to hold a weapon but they can add something like this so they can still attack with it. Like I said, I could be wrong, but this doesn't seem too unlikely to me.
I don't think so. The scissor is a class of gladiator. The weapon is not at personnal convenience of the fighter. There are rules in the arena. The fights are pretty much codified. As for the image, it's some kind of popular representation. Not very well made and probably not very accurate. It's just cheap stuff for fans.
+cosmicmousse I did thought of that also. This needs more documentation though, as with only the engravements shown, that could be very well a unique occurrence or a legend.
Your theory seems WAY more likely to be true than the current interpretation of it being used as a preferred weapon. If a medieval person was alive today he'd probably be laughing at this video and wondering why we are trying to recreate their stubbed hand for handicapped people as a replacement for a real fighting weapon.
Gladiator weren't soldiers, they were entertainers. They were rich, and a lot of money was poured into they're training and well being. No, that was a weapons used by a certain type of gladiator. The were several different kinds that were paired up in specific, calculating ways in order to make the fight as interesting as possible
***** So, your reasoning is that only soldiers get injured and entertainers don't? I'll let Jackie Chan know. He'd be glad to know he doesn't need to be injured anymore. Anyway, As you can clearly see by my post. I was not referring gladiators at all. Skallagrim was. I was clearly speculating on other possible uses.
+Lucid Moses The kind where an artist takes liberty with their depiction. I'm not discounting the possibility you've presented, but it isn't any more likely than the other offerings. It's fun to speculate, though!
I would speculate that the weapon would be potentially useful against the net and Trident combo. I would further speculated that the shape in the reliefs could be explained by it being used by a ex Solder or Gladiator who won their bout but suffer an injury that resulted in a hand amputation this style of weapon is likely the best they could do to give them a usable weapon for the lost hand. if it was to long it would possible fall off - but if it was used by an amputee then it might have been held on by straps up the entire arm and back too. In an odd kind of way I can see something like this being possible useful for a Horseman striking down at someone or even as an anti-beast weapon. like for fighting a bear or a LIon say. I can see how other blade shapes might be useful too like a shallow diamond for example.
I'm pretty sure some Canadian politician saw a bunch of ninja movies in the 80s and got scared. Circular saw blades fine; shuriken DEADLY. Skipping ropes fine; nunchaku EVIL. etc.
+sw gs yes as the people who invested in Galdiators would try and make as much money as possible before the retirement (death in most cases i guess) the guy is like nah tis but a scrach and gave him that thing.
+sw gs I don't know much about Roman medicine, but I'd guess that only very few survived the infections and other complications connected to such wounds. While it makes sense as a weaponized prosthetic I don't think it would be common enough to become a thing.
Depends on how you define medieval, and Roman. Some historians start the medieval period with the conversion of Constantine, which would make Romans contemporaneous with the early medieval period. Additionally, the Eastern Roman Empire, or Byzantine Empire called themselves Roman until the end, and they collapsed in 1453, which would make them contemporaneous with the high and late Middle Ages as well.
If i'm correct, gladiatorial matches were for show, a lot of the weapons and fighting styles used weren't too viable, the Retiarius for example would fight with a net and a trident. My guess is these were to dehumanize the fighters even more, with a monstrous weapon arm and a helmet covering the face, either way the weapon itself was probably not designed with use in mind.
+Zaren k Yup, it was Roman entertainment (and actually killing expensive combat trained slaves was bad for business), so any gladiator weapon or armour needs to be only as practical as Klingon weapons in Star Trek. And Retiarius you mentioned is basically a Neptune cosplay.
+Mrcsptcr Hehe yup, most gladiator types were a cosplay some mythical character or foreign archetype. Come to think of it, roman cavalry sports helmets (the ones with the slightly creepy face masks) also generally represented mythical characters. Romans liked their cosplay with a side of blood and screams.
Look at the carvings. It’s a slanted narrowing design. No human hand could fit into it. Which , in my opinion , makes it more likely that weapon was fitted to amputee gladiators. That will also explain, why in some carvings the scissors “cover” only the hand , while in other the entire forearm as well
How would it be wielded? It is known the scissor had a wooden handle inside gripped by the user. The only feasible way is if it was permanently mounted to an amputees arm, yet there is no such historical record and it seems highly unlikely.
Seems more like the scisor was a parrying/grappling 'claw' given the shape and its depiction in relief (shown hooked behind neck and shoulder), while the long dagger was used as the main offensive weapon.
+Epicmonk117 Skall's channel is continually growing, so when new people join they see it and run it for a few months each. I'm pretty new, and it's hard to unscrew bad pommels.
It actually looks like a good parrying weapon, specially if it's meant to be used in the left hand. You can probably use the "pole" (i don't really know how it's called) to deflect the swing, and the inner curve to cactch the blade and maybe even disarm. With a guard that big, it looks to me that it's meant to be used defensively, and that the pole is supposed to be used often, not only the edge.
+Mud Hut Yes, I think that is the most likely answer. It's used in the left hand so it's definitely not a primary weapon used mainly for attacking. They would have probably used it kind of like a parrying dagger or indeed a buckler, but also as a hook. It makes sense to parry with that thing if you only have a knife in the right hand.
+Mud Hut Yes, I think this is most likely an offhand, primarily defensive, weapon like a buckler or a parrying dagger. With the enclosed "guard" and the elliptical blade on the shaft it could totally be used that way.
Seeing as it is showed as a cone that points away from the body it would make sense to use it for defense, also the blade part really seems similar to a hook but my guess is that they also used it for bashing/cutting an opponent because they could just used a pickaxes shape for hooking.
I remember when I first discovered you quite a few years ago, and after rediscovering your channel I'm really happy to see your vids fluctuating between 100k-1.2mil views. Makes me feel happyfor ya, and about smaller youtube channels - if I can even call you that anymore! Haha!
Man, that background gave the video a completely different feeling from all your other videos, and I mean that in a good way. A GREAT way even, holy shit. Definitely keep up making good use of that green screen.
What I can imagine it being used like a hand guard and hook. What I'm imagining is when someone tried to thrust at you with a spear, sword or similar, you can deflect the blade outwards and hook it in to get close with your knife. Alternatively you could use it to hook into shields or pieces of armour to pull your enemy around to get to expose weak points or create an opportunity to strike. Given the shape and size, I think the blade is used only very sparingly for cutting specifically. It's too far out for what is considered effective for a first weapon and not pronounced enough to be used like a sickle or hatchet. So yeah, I'd think tapered is the way to go as it guides a deflected weapon towards the hook. Perhaps have it start closer towards the elbow and then taper it down to the thickness of the current design about 5 centimetres below the hook. That way a deflection is a smooth way down, but you have a fine enough space to hook around shoulders or necks. The added length would just serve to better protect your lower arm and keep the center of gravity as far down as possible.
And worn on the left - the same hand as bucklers, nets, "sword breakers" etc. Use as a hook-shield makes sense. I couldnt get any impression from the carved releifs that skal showed if the opponent had any unique equipment but there is always a chance it was opponent-specific as well.
LMcAwesome I don't think gladiators had the freedom to adjust their equipment to the opponent. Classic fights used to be more show than actual combat, so equipment was set up in a way to make for interesting scenarios. For example those who used shields wore effectively no armour, similar to those with tridents who were given an advantage of reach and a net to get a chance to secure a decisive blow. With the hook shield I could imagine them having been given a few pieces of armour to protect the left half of the waist and shoulder, but the fighter would have to expose himself whenever he wanted to get more reach out of his knife.
having it be a sorta Grapple/Shield works especially since it's common paired weapon was a close range dagger. Focus on defense, disarm the enemy, grapple their armor, get them close, then finish them off with the dagger
I think this is very probable. I could imagine by the form and the depictions how this evolved from a simple hook with added arm guard, but I was thinking only about grappling and controlling opponent's body and I was missing the idea about controlling their weapon - the conic shape makes perfect sense for hooking on it on deflection. It can also be used to disarm.
what i always thought about this weapon is that it was something to basically catch the daggers they had, basically a weird parrying dagger. also they had nets in the colosseum and having something like this could be of some use
+CZProtton It's not a sword, therefore it doesn't have a crossguard. Do you normally see axes or spears with crossguards? No, you don'tt. Besides, typically Roman scissores carried a gladius/dagger. The blade is speculated to be more of a defensive tool than an offensive one. Its most important function was in cutting nets.
Its a thing that not only goes over your hand and has a slight hook to it. It reminds me of like an axe but more defensive. Mean to pull swords to the sides or pull shields down with out having to worry to much about the forearm getting smacked. Worse comes to worse you use it to piece armor.
+mikajlod25 to me it would seem like it could be adapted as a prosthetic for any gladiators that survived but lost a limb. That way they could continue to use the enslaved gladiator in future arenas without leaving him at quite a disadvantage. I could also see this being used for disarming and a sort of tear-grapple such as on the shoulder (one of the images that Skall showed at 1:36 which could alternatively be wrestling). I would think that because of the lack of a shield, it would be best used to rip away the opponent's shield. But against the popular idea of the Trident with a Net, prolly wouldn't last caught tangled in there.
Uhm, the thing about gladiators, most their battles weren't fought to the death, jnfact, being a gladiator was kinda like being famous, and it would be idiotic to kill them constantly, because they were expensive to replace. That being said, if a gladiator sustained an injury to severe to recover from, they'd take them in back, and bash their heads in with hammers.
I remember seeing one tested on the show Deadliest Warrior in the Gladiator vs Apache match up. It was mostly a hack & slash weapon, but could be used to thrust as well.
its used in swiping and 'punching' motions. and you can use it with almost anything really. a long knife, a sword, a net, a spear... the rounded edge will actually punch through soft flesh very well, such as the stomach and bare muscle tissue.
it is a Hand Replacement, for the Gladiator, the blade would have been typically to remove chunks of meat from diners, and hooked edges to make up for the lost limb, it is why the depictions taper cleanly into the Cypress leaf inspired blade and hook.
It is also possible that you are looking at different generations of the weapon type, (round being early, pointed coming later, or the other way around)Makes it harder to use the drawings if they are not of the same tool
Kirk Cooey, the scissor is held between the user and the enemy, kinda like a shield. Rather than having a cutting edge, I think this was used to block and catch blades weapons.
+Skallagrim This is made as a type of weaponized prosthetic for a common injury with gladitorial fights a severed arm. Formed to the size of remaining ark and compressed to stay on sometimes with the help of straps.
it looks clear to me that you would use this to "grab" the enemy and pulled him onto your knife, and/or ripe the shield of you out of his hands to create an opening to stick the knife in. also looking at the stone figure, it probably also a way of doing damage to the nek, were the helmets didn't protect as good. and the long stick would be a good shoulder breaker.
My first thought was to block with the arm guard then use the crescent like a hook to bring your opponent into your knife. The biggest downside is the tang looks like a major week point. A good hit with a broadsword would break it, but that was used in Roman times with shorter softer swords so it may be alright.
From my understanding (note I'm an amateur about these things at best. Dabbling in reading books and watching docs since high school, purely as a hobby oh and movies which is more fiction then not) they were never meant to kill. Now I never thought about the left hand thing before but look at it as a shield or buckler which would makes it being on that hand make sense. Also with a shield and can strike with it to a point which also makes sense here. As far as the blade design there is little to no way you could cut deeply with a blade like that for a quick kill (no stabbing ability) but if you look at gladiators as entertainers and not just fighters you'll see this as a weapon that can be uses to draw blood, cause damage, slash at sensitive spots like legs and arms and slow someone down. without it being directly deadly it'll draw out the fight and blood, prolonging the show and raises the level of entertainment.
If you're interested in seeing a Scissor in action, Deadliest Warrior (TV show) did an episode featuring Gladiators - had Chuck Liddell (MMA fighter) using one to punch through a side of beef. Seemed more effective than it might've first appeared :)
That is actually an iterresting weapon. Do you plan on learning how to use it? Maybe write a manual of your own? cus that sounds like something I would really want to read ^_^. The weapon also looks like it would be good in "zombie apocalypse" scenario. I could see you fending off the undead with it, and protect yourself against bites on your striking hand.
Since it is called "the scissor" i would imagine it could be used to parry and trap weapons instead of actually doing damage with the points. If used together with a "long knife" it would work like a modern scissor and be able to disarm the opponent.
I could imagine that it was used like some kind of hook. You would try to catch it in your opponent and then stabbing him with the knife while he cant get away.
The scissor weapon belongs to a class of gladiator called the "Scissor". That class of gladiator was created to give the Retiarius gladiator (the one with the trident and net) a challenge. The helmet had no angled edges so the net could not snag on it. As for the weapon, it could be used to snag the net and pull it from the retiarius and the long tube could be used to protect the forearm from the retiarius' trident. Also, the Scissor gladiator used either a gladius or sica but most likely the gladius, in his sword hand. I am in the midst of having my Scissor gladiator class made so I can compete in (non lethal) gladiator fights in the states. Skallagrim, I don't know if you are in Toronto or Ontario, but if you know of any fellow weapon enthusiasts who might be interested in gladiatorial combat, I'm looking to start up a gladiator organization here in Ontario. There aren't any in Canada that I've found so if you know of anyone who'd like to come on board with this idea, you can reach me at im_surrounded_by_frickin_idiots@hotmail.com
I know them to have the blade right on top of the holder. I also assume it was a form of grappling with the blade bit made to do non fatal cuts to fulfil the crowds need for blood while keeping the gladiators in a fight less likely to die so they get more uses
Gladiator`s arena was a place to see how criminals are butchering each other. No warriors there or any warrior tactics. Everyone who doesn`t know this have not read the ancient sources well.
+kiba BG Ironic how you talk about not reading the ancient sources well while completely ignoring the fact that Roman citizens could become gladiators as a career choice, and that slaves could fight for their freedom in the arena.
Butchering? A lot of people agree that most of the fights where staged especially if the fighters where popular. It was actually not that common for fighters to die.
***** I am reading Lucius Annaeus Seneca right now, where he mention the arena as a place where crowds go to see killing, not battle between warriors. "Nothing stops the blade" says Seneca and one or both of the gladiators die very quickly and the next ones are going on the arena. Seneca mentions the noble youth participating in this as a bad thing instead of making real military career. And gladiators mostly are criminals sentenced to die, Romans with debts who cannot pay are often sentenced to die on the arena. The coliseum is a butchering place, constantly supplied with fresh meat. The truth cannot be more far away compared to modern bullshit shows like "Spartacus" filling the head of illiterates with false information and misunderstandings.
Caramel Johnson I mean exactly this part of his "Moral letters to Licilius", thank you for pasting the text here. But why Seneca didn`t mentioned "more honourable" fights? I mean he mentioned the gladiator fights as a whole to be like this. And look the gladiator weapons and armor - it`s pure parody of weapons and armor, so the fight can be more grotesque and enjoyable by the crowd of idiots. Gladiator fights were like modern movie cinemas - people going there to eat junk food and to watch low quality "show". Just in Roman times the show was real :)
I think they were used for _hooking_ the opponent, dragging them close and limiting their movement while simultaneously bringing them in range to be stabbed by the knife. That is why they are primarily on the left hand, which is non-dominant and usually used by defensive equipment like shields.
With that hook, it could be used to manipulate shield, spears, swords, etc to make an opening for attack with the main hand weapon or as a quick strike if parrying with the main hand weapon
A very interesting looking weapon! I agree most with your last point: Judging by how the guard covers most of the wrist/arm -- and the hooked end of the blade -- I'd assume this would be used mostly as a defensive weapon.
Skall, could it be that its actually a prosthesis rather than a weapon of choise for a fighter? Seems reasonable that some gladiators could have this limbs cut off or maimed. And then when you cannot carry a sword or any other weapon, this comes as not the worst idea. Better then nothing anyway.
Skallagrim, I came up with an idea very reminiscent of this a few years ago myself. I welded a billhook blade onto the back of my left-handed (off-hand/shield-hand) steel gauntlet. I haven't watched but 25 seconds of this video yet; but instantly I recognized the idea. I think it has huge potential.
When I made mine, I had/have every intention of using it as a gut or throat hook in a clinch. It can serve as a buckler, it can parry away a medium or smaller weapon... But yeah, offensively I intend it to use it like so: feign that one wishes to keep distance while striking with the primary weapon, then quickly step/press into the opponent's guard with the "scissor" across the body, quickly jerk the scissor across the opponent's abdominal area... evisceration! (assuming cloth armor) Okay, I just realized the main difference between mine and yours is that the sharp edge of mine is to the inside.
You can see the gauntlet as a glorified invulnerable hand. You can punch with it, a bladed punch with range, nice. You can disarm or manipulate the enemy's weapon with the hooks and shaft. You can block without obstructing your vision. You can get a hold of a shield or a piece of armor with hooks and tear it appart or make them lose balance. You get incredible leverage by having it tied to your forearm instead of the wrist pulling all weight and power. It can also be used by people who lack a hand, unlike a sword or a shield.
I have seen some ancient pictures with gladiators having this weapon...They had it because they couldn't use a shield, and they even had body armour...But still, we'll never know for sure
Yo. So i think it was used instead of a shield but intended as a weapon. I think the edge was used to disarm or parry incoming attacks. The maneuverability of a glove with the defense of a shield that can also be used as a weapon if it has to. Im sticking to the shield thing because shield and sword is so traditional what if this was someone trying to me innovative
I'm not really an expert on weapons in general, but I did have a couple of thoughts: It looked from the images like an amputee weapon, meant to be used by someone who had lost a real hand and had one made as a replacement. That would make it fairly similar to the stump knife from the D&D Arms and Equipment Guide (which I'd quite like to know whether it would be a practical weapon, considering some of the nonsensical crap in the A&EG). The taper seemed like it started too early for a weapon used by someone who had a full-length arm. One of the main advantages would be to mess up someone else's grip, sort of like you can do with a jitte. If someone swung a longer sword or mace at you, you could catch it on the guard and trap it between that and the hook, possibly forcing them to relinquish their grip or move awkwardly around the weapon to recover it. In either case, you could then move in closer and bring them down with the normal knife. The one problem I see with that idea is that they don't have prongs like a jitte has to guide the opponent's weapon into the right spot to trap it more easily. Finally, it seems to me like it would just be a really nasty, messy weapon. If you manage to hook it into someone's flesh, it would rip them up no matter which way it ended up moving, especially if they tried to back off and had it slice out towards to wielder. It doesn't seem like a practical battlefield weapon, but for 1-on-1 gladiatorial combat it could do pretty well, especially for a substitute for a shield used by someone who lacks the hand to hold a shield in.
By taking in account that "Scissor / Arbelas" type of gladiator is supposed to be a "contra - retiarius", opponent to the retiarius, and that this weapon has been worn on the "non - dominant" hand, it can be assumed that it was a mostly defensive weapon used primarily to capture the net thrown on him by the retiarius. The shape of the top "blade" is believed to come from the "arbelos", cobbler's blade used to cut leather therefore the type of gladiator can be also called "Arbelas" and those are mentioned in few Roman texts. By testing this weapon in combat for quite some time, we also concluded that the best practice is to use it as a defensive weapon, used to capture and block the net, and then throw it away, making the net useless and too heavy to throw again. On close range (which is very rare in fight with retiarius), it can be used to inflict damage with thrusting or hooking the opponent, but this is a rare case, as a good retiarius is too mobile and agile for a heavy armored "scissor". From the reliefs on which the "scissor/arbelas" can be seen, that they've been heavily armored, in 3 possible ways (as described by Marcus Junkelmann in his book: Das Spiel mit dem Tod. So kämpften Roms Gladiatoren), with "Lorica Hamata" or a type of "Lorica Squamata" or gambeson like full body padding, also having "air constricting" helmets (secutor type), they weren't able to move fast and gotten tired soon, so an offensive technique wasn't very smart move at least with this weapon, as we concluded by our testing.
It looks almost like a parrying/anti-shield weapon. I obviously don't know much but just from shape alone it looks like it would be perfect for wrapping around the edge of a shield and pull it away from the opponent's body leaving them open for attack. Plus that gauntlet part, depending on how strong the material is, could be used to block a sword blow if necessary.
Hey scall :D just wanted to say my uncle had these odd fist weapons with similar blades on them, a very pronounced edge that was very sharp and everything. He told me they were better for pushing against rather then trusting simple because the shape spread the sharpness out to far or something to that effect. Hopefully you can make some sense of those words and they help.
when i was in school we had this guy come in and he was an expert on historical arms and armour and the scissor was one of the weapon he bought in and apparently it was used for slashing an enemies gut or punching through it. also the blade on that design you have there is very similar to the one this expert had, the arm cover was one piece though
I read somewhere that the scissors were usually matched against a retarius so this would be useful for cutting the net. I am assuming that the reverse curve is also sharpened so that a pull cut could be used.
by the looks of it, it maybe used for hooking and it's blunt edge used to punch someone between their eyes (w/without a helmet), if blocked that's where the hook will be on used and the other hand will to the rest.
@Skallagrim If the weapon was meant to be used in the off-hand then the backwards points on the blade could be used to hook or snag an opponent and get them off balance. If the scissor was short and the main weapon was a long knife that could be an effect combo, especially if you're heavily armored. I know the Romans would sometimes match gladiators to specific opponents; light armor and fast against heavy armor and slow, etc. So what type gladiator did scissor users fight? That could give a clue as to how they were used.
Having a "scissor" and a knife makes sense in that the "scissor" would hook things, and bring the person close so they could bring the knife to work. That's just what makes sense to me.
From my studies of ancient Greece I can tell you that the head of the scissor is called an ἄρβηλος (Arbelos) in Greek, or a Cobbler's knife in English, and is used to cut leather. I guess that the Romans decided to use the design for a weapon to cut through leather armour and flesh (this would work best once you've driven them to the ground and can use the weight of your body to push the blade through them as a hunter or leather worker would do to an animal corpse/hide with an ἄρβηλος), or you could use the points on the sides to grab a hold of an opponent's shield or for penetration like a pick. Here in Canada the Inuit people use the same style of blade to skin and clean animal carcasses out where by pressing down and rocking the blade back and forth it works like a saw to cut through tendons, sinew, and even bones. As well it is the tool of choice for cutting out ice blocks for building igloos.
If i do remember well, the Scissor was used by the Secutor which was a gladiator specialized against de Retiare. The long knive he used was for offensive purpose while the scissor was for grabing the net and cutting it. The helmet of the Secutor was also made in such a way (a very rounded top) that it could'nt get caught by the net. That supposedly one of the use of this weapon. Concerning how it was made I must say i don't know. I would presume that since you need to keep your stamina against the very agile and light Retiare that the blade would be made of steel or iron, but the vanbrace part would have been made of a light metal structure covered by boiled leather. It would have probably been enough of a protection against the weapons you may have encountered in the arena.
all in all, it may be a lightweight shield alternative. the crescent shaped blade looks like it can be used for blade locking and possible disarming while the hand guard is defensive parrying with the bonus of you can't really disarm that particular weapon
The weapon was used by a gladiator class by the name of Scissor, who were often put against the Reniatius class (equipped with a strident and weighted net) in the games. The class was equipped with a gladius and scissor, to cut against the Reniatius' net. The Scissor class also had a rounded helmet, to combat the net. It would be logical to assume that the gladius for the Scissors was used for thrusting, while the scissor was used for slashing and pulling, as well as defending given that the class lacked a shield.
In my personal opinion I believe the scissor would be used as a punch blade for push cuts and jabs aimed at the ribs and joints like the armpit or inner thigh as well as a parrying and catching rod to twist and pull a murmillos shield down or to the side to get a good strike at the unarmored chest or neck while blocking the sword arm from a counter.
If its used for the left hand perhaps it was used more as a parry weapon? Catching a weapon with the hook part then dragging away from your body? Then again the points remind me of something like a pick and might be good for poking holes in armor. The crescent shape could possibly be used as a scraper/scoop to get under or into segments of armor? Starting to sound like some sort of crazy gladiatorial can opener that way. In any case I do love seeing crazy unique weapons like that. Swords are great, but its fun to see off the wall stuff sometimes!
It´s more of a Defense and Utility tool. There are Pictures were it was Used against a Shilded Enemy. So you can Hook it in the shild and pull. Brining youre Enemy out of balance and strike him with youre Dagger. Also it´s good for defense and sword catching
If I recall correctly, the scissor-type was a variant of the secutor appearing in later games, with the same helmet as the secutor and possibly an armored shirt to make up for the lack of shield. As a secutor variant it is assumed that the scissor would only fight retiarii (net and trident, little armor), usually as part of a team with secutori against a team of retiarii. Best guess is that the distinctive weapon was designed to be effective against a net or trident.
From some stuff I've red, these weapons were used in off-hand to disarm their opponent as a counter move.I think it works like a disarm parry kinda thing. Would love to have some more documentation on it., but this is the most accurate I could find. My source: Gladiator ancient history ecyclopedia.
A Scissor in my experience althou limited was used mainly as a parrying and hooking weapon. Used mainly as a counter against poleweapons and made in it's more typical manner as it's more similar to a cone covering most of the forearm. It's usually extends farther up the forearm and on the inside it has a handle attached to the part of the extended halfmoon shaped bar similar to how you fasten a handle to a tang. I have also seen variants where you have a strap around the forearm and a vertical grip. As Skall said it's hard to find facts about these things and I'm only going on what I've seen and read myself. I would recommend maybe asking the Metatron on youtube for some insight in gladiatorial fighting since he seems quite well informed on the subject. Cheers.
+ Skallagrim The Metatron has a video describing more details about this type of weapon which you might find interesting. m.ruclips.net/video/DywNoc1O1kc/видео.html . While for full context the whole video is great, the specifics start at 14:50.
Deadliest Warrior messed around with one of these in an episode. They had an amateur boxer hit a side of beef with it. It cut through bone and flesh like butter. Clean through like a sword cut. Of course, It would have trouble with metal armor.
I'm going to go do more internet research on this type of combat which I assume is called "Scissoring"
😂😂😂you made my day!
+Aj Koorstra It is, and of course the weapon originated from the greek island of Lesbos, so that should help narrow your search somewhat
+Aj Koorstra And we're at 69 thumbs so I'm not going to ruin that magic.
+William Jones Bruh. You're a god
+Aj Koorstra OMG NO! It's Lesbian sex! I google it too!
Dear Skallagrim!
My name is Barney and I'm a former member of the Familia Gladiatoria Pannonica, Europe's first gladiator reenactment group founded in Hungary in 1986.
I am intimately familiar with The Scissor and I can also tell you what exactly it is and what it was used for.
First, you need to understand is that gladiators had certain 'weapon classes'. You had the Secutor, the Myrmillo, the Retiarius et cetera. However, not all gladiators classes fought all gladiator classes. The matchups were custom, and different classes were matched against each other based on a number of things, partly historical-religious-spiritual, party simply what was entertaining to watch.
The object in question was used by a class we called 'Scissor', so we adressed the combatant by this term, rather than his tool, but you could argue that we named the class after his tool, but regardless...
The Scissor exclusively fought the Retiarius. And the Retiarius was the gladiator armed with the Trident-Dagger-Net trio.
The Scissor was a fighter wearing heavy armor (lot's of chainmail) and had very few and very small target areas the trident wielding Retiarius could strike. He had a gladius as you said it yourself and the scissor itself.
Against him, you had the Retiarius with next to no armor apart from a so called 'manica' which protected one arm and offered some minimal protection to the head and as I've mentioned, a trident, a dagger and a net. That was it.
The role of the scissor was not a primary weapon meant to damage the retiarius (although it could be used as such in a pinch), rather, it was a tool to deprive the Retiarius of his net. We had a number of choreographies around this and it works really well, the net becomes almost entirely useless as soon as it touches the scissor itself.
I cannot say how historically accurate this thesis is because I was just a fighter, my primary concern was doing choreographies or free-fight where I simply wanted to win (I was a Retiarius myself), but I do know that the event organisers and our leaders did research on the subject so we definitely hold 'some' historical credibility.
I hope this cleared up your confusion about this unusual item, I will be the first to say that without a net in the picture it's pretty useless compared to a sword for example.
I remember when I managed to tangle the scissors' scissor and his gladius together to make him completely defenceless. I am not sure if it was a choreography that I fucked up this way or a free fight that I won this way, but I regardless, it was fun :)
WE NEED TO SPREAD THIS TO SKALL!
I messaged him but he never noticed me yet.
jabloko992
Huh, if that is true, I guess the depiction in the Asterix comics does have some merit to it then. I do remember gladiators that were holding a trident and a net.
Guys, its a gladiatorial weapon, so its probably more for the audiences fun than its practical effectiveness. Broken wrists would be so much fun to watch.
Probably a weapon that was attached to the arm after the gladiators lost the hand in an battle.
These were actually the early roman prototypes for pizza cutters.
Jess Hull pizza cutters without any pizza?
Which is why they made gladiators fight with them. They spent the money on it for parties they are going to use it for parties.
Wellll parties like watching dudes kill each other and eating like bread or something cause pizza wasnt invented yet.
Ah yes, Italy before they imported tomatoes....
*those were dark times*
Wow
pizza cutter for human flesh
Finally, a weapon that rivals the almighty katana.
SENPAI U MY WIFEU
You are aware that they were joking, right?
No blade can rival the almighty katana!
StateWaffles Just think though, if he were dual wielding those. That would be an epic battle. He could also mix a gigantic bowl of cake batter with them.
+Jeremy Madsen
Couldn't stop my destructive pommel!
No, it cannot.
Everyone _knows_ that the katana is the most powerful sword to ever be created, and it's te only one that can cut through 1 metre of titanium alloy without any damage being done to the blade.
as far as i know, the scissor was made to defend the net of retarius and the the gladius, the second wepon of the scissor was the offensiv wappon. in this point, i think, a more roundet shape would make a bit more sense
No pommel? Useless.
+Tobias Cibira (YTguardian) We need to make a cannon that shoots pommels.
+Wicky No need, simply load a cannon with a canister of pommels instead of scrap
+Wicky Isn't that what they do anyways?
migueeeelet But do Cannon Balls have threads! Then nonsense! If I can't effectively shoot pommels for soldiers to end foes rightly it's useless!
***** Blackpowder cannons does not have threads and they were sometimes used like massive shotguns.
Load a canister of ballbearings into it and point it at the nearest infantryline
What's the Dex and str scaling on that bad boy
Quality with C for both.
Joel Davis Seems legit
It's B for both on +15
+Joel Davis ew gross. And no way this is a quality weapon, it's not heavy at all. A halberd is the perfect example of a quality weapon, it's heavy and requires skill. This, at most, would require 12 str. Probably 14-18 dex with D scaling, and fully upgraded B scaling.
+MonsterTeegs looks like the "stake driver" from bloodborne which was C strength C skill
I could be wrong but the shape of them looks like they could be prosthetics rather than a weapon they held. The guy with the reproduction has a narrow one but there's still a pronounced step at the end where the carvings look like they narrow to a point where the hand is. It kind of makes sense that it is a prosthetic, at least to me. If your prize fighter loses the left hand they won't be able to hold a weapon but they can add something like this so they can still attack with it. Like I said, I could be wrong, but this doesn't seem too unlikely to me.
I don't think so. The scissor is a class of gladiator. The weapon is not at personnal convenience of the fighter. There are rules in the arena. The fights are pretty much codified. As for the image, it's some kind of popular representation. Not very well made and probably not very accurate. It's just cheap stuff for fans.
+cosmicmousse I did thought of that also. This needs more documentation though, as with only the engravements shown, that could be very well a unique occurrence or a legend.
or you could use 30 seconds using Google and realize you're completely wrong
Your theory seems WAY more likely to be true than the current interpretation of it being used as a preferred weapon. If a medieval person was alive today he'd probably be laughing at this video and wondering why we are trying to recreate their stubbed hand for handicapped people as a replacement for a real fighting weapon.
If a medieval eprsonw as alive today he would have no idea what the fuck that weapon was, because it was used in ancient rome....
It looks like a hand axe with 0% chance of losing your fingers whilst using it.
Wow surprised to see you here
One would imagine that not all solders were unscathed. Possibly a weapon for someone with a permanently injured or amputated hand?
Gladiator weren't soldiers, they were entertainers. They were rich, and a lot of money was poured into they're training and well being. No, that was a weapons used by a certain type of gladiator. The were several different kinds that were paired up in specific, calculating ways in order to make the fight as interesting as possible
+Norman N Also the weapon had a handle on the inside. They wouldn't weld it to the arm and that's the only way it would have worked without a hand.
***** So, your reasoning is that only soldiers get injured and entertainers don't? I'll let Jackie Chan know. He'd be glad to know he doesn't need to be injured anymore.
Anyway, As you can clearly see by my post. I was not referring gladiators at all. Skallagrim was. I was clearly speculating on other possible uses.
Matthew Cooper Take a look at the tapered one he showed. What size of hand would fit in there holding a handle?
+Lucid Moses The kind where an artist takes liberty with their depiction.
I'm not discounting the possibility you've presented, but it isn't any more likely than the other offerings. It's fun to speculate, though!
I would speculate that the weapon would be potentially useful against the net and Trident combo.
I would further speculated that the shape in the reliefs could be explained by it being used by a ex Solder or Gladiator who won their bout but suffer an injury that resulted in a hand amputation this style of weapon is likely the best they could do to give them a usable weapon for the lost hand. if it was to long it would possible fall off - but if it was used by an amputee then it might have been held on by straps up the entire arm and back too.
In an odd kind of way I can see something like this being possible useful for a Horseman striking down at someone or even as an anti-beast weapon. like for fighting a bear or a LIon say.
I can see how other blade shapes might be useful too like a shallow diamond for example.
I'm pretty sure some Canadian politician saw a bunch of ninja movies in the 80s and got scared. Circular saw blades fine; shuriken DEADLY. Skipping ropes fine; nunchaku EVIL. etc.
You can trace most of California's weapons laws, firearms or not, to 80's and 90's action movies.
+farmerboy916 I prefer to put the blame on politicians, and fear mongering media. But I get what you're saying.
Vykk Draygo Well yeah, but that really is where they've gotten their ideas.
farmerboy916 Yeah. Most likely.
+farmerboy916 maybe kids trying that shit caused the ban. like in south park
It wasn't a gladiator's main weapon, It was wielded with the left hand to cut Retiarii's nets while the fought with a gladio or a sica.
+InfernalNoize
It's just speculation, but I'm pretty sure it was used for more than only cutting the Retiarius' net.
+Skallagrim Almost looks like it could be used to rip an opponents shield out of the way as well as parry oncoming strikes.
*****
Unfortunately push-daggers and everything that falls under the same definition are prohibited with no option to obtain them legally.
the 'hooks' on the blade could have been used to control/dismantle opponents primary weapons such as swords or nets? Skallagrim?
say they could hook and slide across the opponents sword till they are close enough to stab the opponent
It looks rather like weapon for gladiators whom had stump instead of hand (if they lost hand in combat).
My initial reaction was it getting screwed into the bone. bleck
+sw gs Same as what I was thinking. It looks like a type of prosthetic used for grabbing your opponent.
+sw gs yes as the people who invested in Galdiators would try and make as much money as possible before the retirement (death in most cases i guess) the guy is like nah tis but a scrach and gave him that thing.
+sw gs I don't know much about Roman medicine, but I'd guess that only very few survived the infections and other complications connected to such wounds. While it makes sense as a weaponized prosthetic I don't think it would be common enough to become a thing.
+sw gs oh shit so logical .... well played
To me it looks like something that you wear if your hand/arm was cut off. Almost like a medieval pirate.
+XrosM This is what I've always assumed. Basically the same thing Daryl's brother had in Walking Dead.
Weren't Romans LONG before medieval times?
Depends on how you define medieval, and Roman. Some historians start the medieval period with the conversion of Constantine, which would make Romans contemporaneous with the early medieval period. Additionally, the Eastern Roman Empire, or Byzantine Empire called themselves Roman until the end, and they collapsed in 1453, which would make them contemporaneous with the high and late Middle Ages as well.
If i'm correct, gladiatorial matches were for show, a lot of the weapons and fighting
styles used weren't too viable, the Retiarius for example would fight with a net and a trident.
My guess is these were to dehumanize the fighters even more, with a monstrous weapon arm and a helmet covering the face, either way the weapon itself was probably not designed with use in mind.
Not to mention the fighters who had good armor and weapons, but wore a helmet that covered their entire face in a way as to make them unable to see.
+Zaren k Yup, it was Roman entertainment (and actually killing expensive combat trained slaves was bad for business), so any gladiator weapon or armour needs to be only as practical as Klingon weapons in Star Trek. And Retiarius you mentioned is basically a Neptune cosplay.
+CreaturePlaysGames Those probably relied on auditory cues from spectators. ruclips.net/video/YjHOfYE15O4/видео.html
+Mrcsptcr Hehe yup, most gladiator types were a cosplay some mythical character or foreign archetype.
Come to think of it, roman cavalry sports helmets (the ones with the slightly creepy face masks) also generally represented mythical characters. Romans liked their cosplay with a side of blood and screams.
I've seen Gladiator and you're wrong
Look at the carvings. It’s a slanted narrowing design.
No human hand could fit into it. Which , in my opinion , makes it more likely that weapon was fitted to amputee gladiators.
That will also explain, why in some carvings the scissors “cover” only the hand , while in other the entire forearm as well
How would it be wielded? It is known the scissor had a wooden handle inside gripped by the user. The only feasible way is if it was permanently mounted to an amputees arm, yet there is no such historical record and it seems highly unlikely.
Hey you should make a video about homemade weapons that barely qualify as Canadian-legal. For science!
Forgot I was wearing this went to scratch groin unhappy now.
Oh dear god, he said "sore-y" he's becoming one of them.
+Demitrium He lives in Canada, eh. :P
Send them more goats and pineapples..
you will never be a woman
What if they lost a hand and it IS a prosthetic weapon?
+D4rkTooga was thinking the same thing.
+D4rkTooga I raised that same point just now before I saw your post. Great minds and all.
+Davis Whitaker Ye thought a little farther than I, good point.
+Nothing to See Here Hehe aye!
+viking Mckim Seems like we are not alone on this opinion.
Seems more like the scisor was a parrying/grappling 'claw' given the shape and its depiction in relief (shown hooked behind neck and shoulder), while the long dagger was used as the main offensive weapon.
That looks pretty awesome, I'd really like to buy tha- "350 dollars".
On second thought, how about a plastic sword?
Cannot end them rightly. 0/10.
How has this gag run on for so long?
... ..*reads manual*
hmm it says, you have to unscrew your hand and throw ...to end 'em rightly
+Epicmonk117
Skall's channel is continually growing, so when new people join they see it and run it for a few months each. I'm pretty new, and it's hard to unscrew bad pommels.
+Lensius /golf clap
+Lensius There a is always at least one.
It actually looks like a good parrying weapon, specially if it's meant to be used in the left hand. You can probably use the "pole" (i don't really know how it's called) to deflect the swing, and the inner curve to cactch the blade and maybe even disarm. With a guard that big, it looks to me that it's meant to be used defensively, and that the pole is supposed to be used often, not only the edge.
Doesn't that law also ban certain kinds of corkscrews?
+Lttlemoi If they have a blade on the side I would think so.
Zomx I'd assume the ban is more because of the point rather than the edge on the side that these things are banned
+Lttlemoi It bans only the automatic ones, expecially those with pommels.
Probably takes into account the length of the blade/screw
how is a guitar illegal in Canada?
+Thomas Cole
Katar, not guitar.
+TRC TROLL to many bad singer/songwriters maybe :)
+Skallagrim Proper spelling is Qatar, and how the hell can you make country illegal?
+TRC TROLL justin bieber
+Алексей Любимов Unsure if troll. Katars are punching daggers.
I could see catching a weapon under the hook of the blade and tying it up so you could attack with your other weapon.
Maybe they were defensive, used almost like a buckler but also to grapple, hook around limbs
or possibly to catch weapons, armour and the like, pull the opponent close and then strike (or something, haven't really got a clue)
+Mud Hut Exactly what I was thinking, I could see someone using it to hook away a weapon or a shield.
+Mud Hut
Yes, I think that is the most likely answer. It's used in the left hand so it's definitely not a primary weapon used mainly for attacking. They would have probably used it kind of like a parrying dagger or indeed a buckler, but also as a hook. It makes sense to parry with that thing if you only have a knife in the right hand.
+Mud Hut Yes, I think this is most likely an offhand, primarily defensive, weapon like a buckler or a parrying dagger. With the enclosed "guard" and the elliptical blade on the shaft it could totally be used that way.
Seeing as it is showed as a cone that points away from the body it would make sense to use it for defense, also the blade part really seems similar to a hook but my guess is that they also used it for bashing/cutting an opponent because they could just used a pickaxes shape for hooking.
I remember when I first discovered you quite a few years ago, and after rediscovering your channel I'm really happy to see your vids fluctuating between 100k-1.2mil views. Makes me feel happyfor ya, and about smaller youtube channels - if I can even call you that anymore! Haha!
This is something that Jaime Lannister needs
Man, that background gave the video a completely different feeling from all your other videos, and I mean that in a good way. A GREAT way even, holy shit. Definitely keep up making good use of that green screen.
What I can imagine it being used like a hand guard and hook. What I'm imagining is when someone tried to thrust at you with a spear, sword or similar, you can deflect the blade outwards and hook it in to get close with your knife. Alternatively you could use it to hook into shields or pieces of armour to pull your enemy around to get to expose weak points or create an opportunity to strike.
Given the shape and size, I think the blade is used only very sparingly for cutting specifically. It's too far out for what is considered effective for a first weapon and not pronounced enough to be used like a sickle or hatchet.
So yeah, I'd think tapered is the way to go as it guides a deflected weapon towards the hook. Perhaps have it start closer towards the elbow and then taper it down to the thickness of the current design about 5 centimetres below the hook. That way a deflection is a smooth way down, but you have a fine enough space to hook around shoulders or necks. The added length would just serve to better protect your lower arm and keep the center of gravity as far down as possible.
And worn on the left - the same hand as bucklers, nets, "sword breakers" etc. Use as a hook-shield makes sense. I couldnt get any impression from the carved releifs that skal showed if the opponent had any unique equipment but there is always a chance it was opponent-specific as well.
LMcAwesome I don't think gladiators had the freedom to adjust their equipment to the opponent. Classic fights used to be more show than actual combat, so equipment was set up in a way to make for interesting scenarios.
For example those who used shields wore effectively no armour, similar to those with tridents who were given an advantage of reach and a net to get a chance to secure a decisive blow.
With the hook shield I could imagine them having been given a few pieces of armour to protect the left half of the waist and shoulder, but the fighter would have to expose himself whenever he wanted to get more reach out of his knife.
having it be a sorta Grapple/Shield works especially since it's common paired weapon was a close range dagger. Focus on defense, disarm the enemy, grapple their armor, get them close, then finish them off with the dagger
I think this is very probable. I could imagine by the form and the depictions how this evolved from a simple hook with added arm guard, but I was thinking only about grappling and controlling opponent's body and I was missing the idea about controlling their weapon - the conic shape makes perfect sense for hooking on it on deflection. It can also be used to disarm.
what i always thought about this weapon is that it was something to basically catch the daggers they had, basically a weird parrying dagger.
also they had nets in the colosseum and having something like this could be of some use
It does not have a crossguard therefore I cannot make a static block with it. I hate it... :D
The whole goddamn thing is a crossguard
+Epicmonk117 BUT WHERE'S THE POMMEL?
+CZProtton so many metal at near 90 degree angles ... huge metal bar with metal covering ... this could probably block a baseball bat swing ... maybe
Its for parry
+CZProtton It's not a sword, therefore it doesn't have a crossguard. Do you normally see axes or spears with crossguards? No, you don'tt. Besides, typically Roman scissores carried a gladius/dagger. The blade is speculated to be more of a defensive tool than an offensive one. Its most important function was in cutting nets.
Its a thing that not only goes over your hand and has a slight hook to it. It reminds me of like an axe but more defensive. Mean to pull swords to the sides or pull shields down with out having to worry to much about the forearm getting smacked. Worse comes to worse you use it to piece armor.
You don't think that was a prosthetic???
+mikajlod25
It could be, but there is no clear evidence either way.
+Skallagrim Perhaps the design was based around not being disarmed, no pun intended.
+mikajlod25 to me it would seem like it could be adapted as a prosthetic for any gladiators that survived but lost a limb. That way they could continue to use the enslaved gladiator in future arenas without leaving him at quite a disadvantage.
I could also see this being used for disarming and a sort of tear-grapple such as on the shoulder (one of the images that Skall showed at 1:36 which could alternatively be wrestling). I would think that because of the lack of a shield, it would be best used to rip away the opponent's shield. But against the popular idea of the Trident with a Net, prolly wouldn't last caught tangled in there.
Uhm, the thing about gladiators, most their battles weren't fought to the death, jnfact, being a gladiator was kinda like being famous, and it would be idiotic to kill them constantly, because they were expensive to replace. That being said, if a gladiator sustained an injury to severe to recover from, they'd take them in back, and bash their heads in with hammers.
I remember seeing one tested on the show Deadliest Warrior in the Gladiator vs Apache match up. It was mostly a hack & slash weapon, but could be used to thrust as well.
Looked more of a grabbing weapon or a defensive tool IMO.
its used in swiping and 'punching' motions. and you can use it with almost anything really. a long knife, a sword, a net, a spear...
the rounded edge will actually punch through soft flesh very well, such as the stomach and bare muscle tissue.
im not sure but wasnt it a specialized weapon to cut the net of one other type of gladiator?
Well Scissors generally fought against the Retiarius, which uses a net and trident, so its very likely that was one of the intended uses
it is a Hand Replacement, for the Gladiator, the blade would have been typically to remove chunks of meat from diners, and hooked edges to make up for the lost limb, it is why the depictions taper cleanly into the Cypress leaf inspired blade and hook.
I would love to see a katar in ur channel
OK, while I was typing the video came to the point where u talk about katars being ilegal
+Patrick Lorran
Unfortunately due to the legality issues I mentioned that can't happen.
+Skallagrim Yeah sorry for commenting before watch the entire video, I know u "hate" when we do this
+Skallagrim what was the other illegal weapon you mentioned ? i can't tell what exactly you are saying
+darkwizard225 m Pata, another type of Indian punch sword.
It is also possible that you are looking at different generations of the weapon type, (round being early, pointed coming later, or the other way around)Makes it harder to use the drawings if they are not of the same tool
What if this wasn't used for offense? What if this was used to parry daggers?
I was thinking this especially since it's held in the off-hand.
That's about my train of thought. Unless they were used as some form of grappling tool, perhaps?
+MadDannyWest how do you know it was off hand? Maybe some of the gladiators were left handed
Kirk Cooey, the scissor is held between the user and the enemy, kinda like a shield. Rather than having a cutting edge, I think this was used to block and catch blades weapons.
+Skallagrim This is made as a type of weaponized prosthetic for a common injury with gladitorial fights a severed arm. Formed to the size of remaining ark and compressed to stay on sometimes with the help of straps.
it looks clear to me that you would use this to "grab" the enemy and pulled him onto your knife, and/or ripe the shield of you out of his hands to create an opening to stick the knife in.
also looking at the stone figure, it probably also a way of doing damage to the nek, were the helmets didn't protect as good.
and the long stick would be a good shoulder breaker.
yeah, sort of like an axe.
You would also use it to remove a net as the opponent this type of gladiator would be fighting would be the retarus and they were armed with a net
My first thought was to block with the arm guard then use the crescent like a hook to bring your opponent into your knife. The biggest downside is the tang looks like a major week point. A good hit with a broadsword would break it, but that was used in Roman times with shorter softer swords so it may be alright.
From my understanding (note I'm an amateur about these things at best. Dabbling in reading books and watching docs since high school, purely as a hobby oh and movies which is more fiction then not) they were never meant to kill.
Now I never thought about the left hand thing before but look at it as a shield or buckler which would makes it being on that hand make sense. Also with a shield and can strike with it to a point which also makes sense here. As far as the blade design there is little to no way you could cut deeply with a blade like that for a quick kill (no stabbing ability) but if you look at gladiators as entertainers and not just fighters you'll see this as a weapon that can be uses to draw blood, cause damage, slash at sensitive spots like legs and arms and slow someone down. without it being directly deadly it'll draw out the fight and blood, prolonging the show and raises the level of entertainment.
If you're interested in seeing a Scissor in action, Deadliest Warrior (TV show) did an episode featuring Gladiators - had Chuck Liddell (MMA fighter) using one to punch through a side of beef. Seemed more effective than it might've first appeared :)
That is actually an iterresting weapon. Do you plan on learning how to use it? Maybe write a manual of your own? cus that sounds like something I would really want to read ^_^. The weapon also looks like it would be good in "zombie apocalypse" scenario. I could see you fending off the undead with it, and protect yourself against bites on your striking hand.
Since it is called "the scissor" i would imagine it could be used to parry and trap weapons instead of actually doing damage with the points. If used together with a "long knife" it would work like a modern scissor and be able to disarm the opponent.
those were used by gladiators missing a hand. or two.
Hey Skallagrim do you think you can do a video on the Cestus? It's another awesome Roman gladiator weapon that I don't really know much about. Thanks!
I could imagine that it was used like some kind of hook. You would try to catch it in your opponent and then stabbing him with the knife while he cant get away.
The scissor weapon belongs to a class of gladiator called the "Scissor". That class of gladiator was created to give the Retiarius gladiator (the one with the trident and net) a challenge. The helmet had no angled edges so the net could not snag on it. As for the weapon, it could be used to snag the net and pull it from the retiarius and the long tube could be used to protect the forearm from the retiarius' trident.
Also, the Scissor gladiator used either a gladius or sica but most likely the gladius, in his sword hand.
I am in the midst of having my Scissor gladiator class made so I can compete in (non lethal) gladiator fights in the states.
Skallagrim, I don't know if you are in Toronto or Ontario, but if you know of any fellow weapon enthusiasts who might be interested in gladiatorial combat, I'm looking to start up a gladiator organization here in Ontario. There aren't any in Canada that I've found so if you know of anyone who'd like to come on board with this idea, you can reach me at im_surrounded_by_frickin_idiots@hotmail.com
Looks like ancient mall ninja stuff TBH.
I know them to have the blade right on top of the holder. I also assume it was a form of grappling with the blade bit made to do non fatal cuts to fulfil the crowds need for blood while keeping the gladiators in a fight less likely to die so they get more uses
Gladiator`s arena was a place to see how criminals are butchering each other. No warriors there or any warrior tactics.
Everyone who doesn`t know this have not read the ancient sources well.
+kiba BG
Ironic how you talk about not reading the ancient sources well while completely ignoring the fact that Roman citizens could become gladiators as a career choice, and that slaves could fight for their freedom in the arena.
Butchering? A lot of people agree that most of the fights where staged especially if the fighters where popular. It was actually not that common for fighters to die.
***** I am reading Lucius Annaeus Seneca right now, where he mention the arena as a place where crowds go to see killing, not battle between warriors. "Nothing stops the blade" says Seneca and one or both of the gladiators die very quickly and the next ones are going on the arena. Seneca mentions the noble youth participating in this as a bad thing instead of making real military career. And gladiators mostly are criminals sentenced to die, Romans with debts who cannot pay are often sentenced to die on the arena.
The coliseum is a butchering place, constantly supplied with fresh meat.
The truth cannot be more far away compared to modern bullshit shows like "Spartacus" filling the head of illiterates with false information and misunderstandings.
+kiba BG Yea well you should read the source yourself mate!
Caramel Johnson I mean exactly this part of his "Moral letters to Licilius", thank you for pasting the text here. But why Seneca didn`t mentioned "more honourable" fights? I mean he mentioned the gladiator fights as a whole to be like this. And look the gladiator weapons and armor - it`s pure parody of weapons and armor, so the fight can be more grotesque and enjoyable by the crowd of idiots.
Gladiator fights were like modern movie cinemas - people going there to eat junk food and to watch low quality "show". Just in Roman times the show was real :)
I think they were used for _hooking_ the opponent, dragging them close and limiting their movement while simultaneously bringing them in range to be stabbed by the knife. That is why they are primarily on the left hand, which is non-dominant and usually used by defensive equipment like shields.
I wonder if this was a weapon for gladiator amputees, as stupid as that might sound. XD
With that hook, it could be used to manipulate shield, spears, swords, etc to make an opening for attack with the main hand weapon or as a quick strike if parrying with the main hand weapon
I came here to see him use it, or chop something. I was disappointed
A very interesting looking weapon! I agree most with your last point: Judging by how the guard covers most of the wrist/arm -- and the hooked end of the blade -- I'd assume this would be used mostly as a defensive weapon.
Skall, could it be that its actually a prosthesis rather than a weapon of choise for a fighter? Seems reasonable that some gladiators could have this limbs cut off or maimed. And then when you cannot carry a sword or any other weapon, this comes as not the worst idea. Better then nothing anyway.
Skallagrim, I came up with an idea very reminiscent of this a few years ago myself.
I welded a billhook blade onto the back of my left-handed (off-hand/shield-hand) steel gauntlet.
I haven't watched but 25 seconds of this video yet; but instantly I recognized the idea.
I think it has huge potential.
When I made mine, I had/have every intention of using it as a gut or throat hook in a clinch.
It can serve as a buckler, it can parry away a medium or smaller weapon...
But yeah, offensively I intend it to use it like so: feign that one wishes to keep distance while striking with the primary weapon,
then quickly step/press into the opponent's guard with the "scissor" across the body,
quickly jerk the scissor across the opponent's abdominal area... evisceration! (assuming cloth armor)
Okay, I just realized the main difference between mine and yours is that the sharp edge of mine is to the inside.
er mer gerd skalla, so ungratefull of you ;)
+Tommy Strandman
I know it's a joke but the joke doesn't even make sense because this is not a gift. :)
+Skallagrim +1 for effort =]
+Skallagrim It's a gift from yourself to yourself ;)
You can see the gauntlet as a glorified invulnerable hand.
You can punch with it, a bladed punch with range, nice.
You can disarm or manipulate the enemy's weapon with the hooks and shaft.
You can block without obstructing your vision.
You can get a hold of a shield or a piece of armor with hooks and tear it appart or make them lose balance.
You get incredible leverage by having it tied to your forearm instead of the wrist pulling all weight and power.
It can also be used by people who lack a hand, unlike a sword or a shield.
They were used by gladiators with 1 hand BTW i didn't watch the whole video
How would you know that? It's possible, but we don't have any evidence to suggest that it was designed for amputees.
I have seen some ancient pictures with gladiators having this weapon...They had it because they couldn't use a shield, and they even had body armour...But still, we'll never know for sure
maybe they used it like a hook,stabbing the other on the back and pull towards the knife for a trust maybe?
Yo. So i think it was used instead of a shield but intended as a weapon. I think the edge was used to disarm or parry incoming attacks. The maneuverability of a glove with the defense of a shield that can also be used as a weapon if it has to. Im sticking to the shield thing because shield and sword is so traditional what if this was someone trying to me innovative
Darkshade Because i didn't have time, and maybe he would have said what i said during the video, that's why
I'm not really an expert on weapons in general, but I did have a couple of thoughts:
It looked from the images like an amputee weapon, meant to be used by someone who had lost a real hand and had one made as a replacement. That would make it fairly similar to the stump knife from the D&D Arms and Equipment Guide (which I'd quite like to know whether it would be a practical weapon, considering some of the nonsensical crap in the A&EG). The taper seemed like it started too early for a weapon used by someone who had a full-length arm.
One of the main advantages would be to mess up someone else's grip, sort of like you can do with a jitte. If someone swung a longer sword or mace at you, you could catch it on the guard and trap it between that and the hook, possibly forcing them to relinquish their grip or move awkwardly around the weapon to recover it. In either case, you could then move in closer and bring them down with the normal knife. The one problem I see with that idea is that they don't have prongs like a jitte has to guide the opponent's weapon into the right spot to trap it more easily.
Finally, it seems to me like it would just be a really nasty, messy weapon. If you manage to hook it into someone's flesh, it would rip them up no matter which way it ended up moving, especially if they tried to back off and had it slice out towards to wielder. It doesn't seem like a practical battlefield weapon, but for 1-on-1 gladiatorial combat it could do pretty well, especially for a substitute for a shield used by someone who lacks the hand to hold a shield in.
By taking in account that "Scissor / Arbelas" type of gladiator is supposed to be a "contra - retiarius", opponent to the retiarius, and that this weapon has been worn on the "non - dominant" hand, it can be assumed that it was a mostly defensive weapon used primarily to capture the net thrown on him by the retiarius.
The shape of the top "blade" is believed to come from the "arbelos", cobbler's blade used to cut leather therefore the type of gladiator can be also called "Arbelas" and those are mentioned in few Roman texts.
By testing this weapon in combat for quite some time, we also concluded that the best practice is to use it as a defensive weapon, used to capture and block the net, and then throw it away, making the net useless and too heavy to throw again. On close range (which is very rare in fight with retiarius), it can be used to inflict damage with thrusting or hooking the opponent, but this is a rare case, as a good retiarius is too mobile and agile for a heavy armored "scissor".
From the reliefs on which the "scissor/arbelas" can be seen, that they've been heavily armored, in 3 possible ways (as described by Marcus Junkelmann in his book: Das Spiel mit dem Tod. So kämpften Roms Gladiatoren), with "Lorica Hamata" or a type of "Lorica Squamata" or gambeson like full body padding, also having "air constricting" helmets (secutor type), they weren't able to move fast and gotten tired soon, so an offensive technique wasn't very smart move at least with this weapon, as we concluded by our testing.
It looks almost like a parrying/anti-shield weapon. I obviously don't know much but just from shape alone it looks like it would be perfect for wrapping around the edge of a shield and pull it away from the opponent's body leaving them open for attack. Plus that gauntlet part, depending on how strong the material is, could be used to block a sword blow if necessary.
Hey scall :D just wanted to say my uncle had these odd fist weapons with similar blades on them, a very pronounced edge that was very sharp and everything. He told me they were better for pushing against rather then trusting simple because the shape spread the sharpness out to far or something to that effect. Hopefully you can make some sense of those words and they help.
when i was in school we had this guy come in and he was an expert on historical arms and armour and the scissor was one of the weapon he bought in and apparently it was used for slashing an enemies gut or punching through it. also the blade on that design you have there is very similar to the one this expert had, the arm cover was one piece though
I read somewhere that the scissors were usually matched against a retarius so this would be useful for cutting the net. I am assuming that the reverse curve is also sharpened so that a pull cut could be used.
by the looks of it, it maybe used for hooking and it's blunt edge used to punch someone between their eyes (w/without a helmet), if blocked that's where the hook will be on used and the other hand will to the rest.
@Skallagrim
If the weapon was meant to be used in the off-hand then the backwards points on the blade could be used to hook or snag an opponent and get them off balance. If the scissor was short and the main weapon was a long knife that could be an effect combo, especially if you're heavily armored.
I know the Romans would sometimes match gladiators to specific opponents; light armor and fast against heavy armor and slow, etc. So what type gladiator did scissor users fight? That could give a clue as to how they were used.
I would love to see some cutting tests with this thing
Having a "scissor" and a knife makes sense in that the "scissor" would hook things, and bring the person close so they could bring the knife to work. That's just what makes sense to me.
From my studies of ancient Greece I can tell you that the head of the scissor is called an ἄρβηλος (Arbelos) in Greek, or a Cobbler's knife in English, and is used to cut leather. I guess that the Romans decided to use the design for a weapon to cut through leather armour and flesh (this would work best once you've driven them to the ground and can use the weight of your body to push the blade through them as a hunter or leather worker would do to an animal corpse/hide with an ἄρβηλος), or you could use the points on the sides to grab a hold of an opponent's shield or for penetration like a pick. Here in Canada the Inuit people use the same style of blade to skin and clean animal carcasses out where by pressing down and rocking the blade back and forth it works like a saw to cut through tendons, sinew, and even bones. As well it is the tool of choice for cutting out ice blocks for building igloos.
If i do remember well, the Scissor was used by the Secutor which was a gladiator specialized against de Retiare. The long knive he used was for offensive purpose while the scissor was for grabing the net and cutting it. The helmet of the Secutor was also made in such a way (a very rounded top) that it could'nt get caught by the net. That supposedly one of the use of this weapon.
Concerning how it was made I must say i don't know. I would presume that since you need to keep your stamina against the very agile and light Retiare that the blade would be made of steel or iron, but the vanbrace part would have been made of a light metal structure covered by boiled leather. It would have probably been enough of a protection against the weapons you may have encountered in the arena.
all in all, it may be a lightweight shield alternative. the crescent shaped blade looks like it can be used for blade locking and possible disarming while the hand guard is defensive parrying with the bonus of you can't really disarm that particular weapon
In the game Soul Caliber 2, Voldo has an equippable set of weapons called "Guillotine" that fit the historic design of this weapon.
The weapon was used by a gladiator class by the name of Scissor, who were often put against the Reniatius class (equipped with a strident and weighted net) in the games. The class was equipped with a gladius and scissor, to cut against the Reniatius' net. The Scissor class also had a rounded helmet, to combat the net. It would be logical to assume that the gladius for the Scissors was used for thrusting, while the scissor was used for slashing and pulling, as well as defending given that the class lacked a shield.
it was used as a hook. a sidearm to hook behind the opponent's armor or clothes, and pull them in on your knife/gladius(roman shortsword)
In my personal opinion I believe the scissor would be used as a punch blade for push cuts and jabs aimed at the ribs and joints like the armpit or inner thigh as well as a parrying and catching rod to twist and pull a murmillos shield down or to the side to get a good strike at the unarmored chest or neck while blocking the sword arm from a counter.
the hook sides would work as a parry weapon and the Crescent blade could be used to gash the neck or thrust decapitation
If its used for the left hand perhaps it was used more as a parry weapon? Catching a weapon with the hook part then dragging away from your body?
Then again the points remind me of something like a pick and might be good for poking holes in armor. The crescent shape could possibly be used as a scraper/scoop to get under or into segments of armor? Starting to sound like some sort of crazy gladiatorial can opener that way.
In any case I do love seeing crazy unique weapons like that. Swords are great, but its fun to see off the wall stuff sometimes!
It´s more of a Defense and Utility tool.
There are Pictures were it was Used against a Shilded Enemy.
So you can Hook it in the shild and pull.
Brining youre Enemy out of balance and strike him with youre Dagger.
Also it´s good for defense and sword catching
If I recall correctly, the scissor-type was a variant of the secutor appearing in later games, with the same helmet as the secutor and possibly an armored shirt to make up for the lack of shield. As a secutor variant it is assumed that the scissor would only fight retiarii (net and trident, little armor), usually as part of a team with secutori against a team of retiarii. Best guess is that the distinctive weapon was designed to be effective against a net or trident.
From some stuff I've red, these weapons were used in off-hand to disarm their opponent as a counter move.I think it works like a disarm parry kinda thing. Would love to have some more documentation on it., but this is the most accurate I could find. My source: Gladiator ancient history ecyclopedia.
This in my opinion looks very much so like it would be used to hook an opponents weapon to make an opening or, as you said for parrying.
It looks useful for parrying attacks and hooking shields. I would think that direct attacks are a secondary feature.
the Chinese Monk Spade (interesting weapon for you to check out btw) bas a crescent shaped edge and yes, they thrust with it.
A Scissor in my experience althou limited was used mainly as a parrying and hooking weapon. Used mainly as a counter against poleweapons and made in it's more typical manner as it's more similar to a cone covering most of the forearm. It's usually extends farther up the forearm and on the inside it has a handle attached to the part of the extended halfmoon shaped bar similar to how you fasten a handle to a tang. I have also seen variants where you have a strap around the forearm and a vertical grip. As Skall said it's hard to find facts about these things and I'm only going on what I've seen and read myself. I would recommend maybe asking the Metatron on youtube for some insight in gladiatorial fighting since he seems quite well informed on the subject. Cheers.
+ Skallagrim The Metatron has a video describing more details about this type of weapon which you might find interesting. m.ruclips.net/video/DywNoc1O1kc/видео.html . While for full context the whole video is great, the specifics start at 14:50.
loving the awesome background in this one
Maybe it was a weapon for injuried gladiator?
"oh you lost an hand and survived? nope you still have your 'job' "
Deadliest Warrior messed around with one of these in an episode. They had an amateur boxer hit a side of beef with it. It cut through bone and flesh like butter. Clean through like a sword cut.
Of course, It would have trouble with metal armor.