My husband, not a witness, told his hard core JW sister and elder husband that he downloaded the elders book from the internet. They were speechless! 😜
Sadly many elders wives know nothing about it. A number left the organization and their husbands after having read it. A number of these women became RUclips activists. The other dirty secret book is the Child Custody case book that prepares JW spouses how to commit perjury to win custody against a former-JW or Never-JW spouse.
@@ready2danceagain it was shortly before I woke up, but it made me smile inside a little. They couldn’t get over it though and she called me the next day to say how shocked she was. I told her you can find anything on the internet these days.
I’ve been out 10 years and I am finally able to tell ppl that I grew up in a cult which helps me be open with ppl because it’s awkward to say you have no childhood memories of Christmas or that your family won’t speak to you or that you just finished college in your 30s. I just feel so alienated but when I share w ppl my JW history it kind of wraps all that up in a bow and I find ppl are so supportive.
I always find Watchtowers avoidance of using the historical/traditional words found throughout Christendom is really telling. "District overseer" is probably the most hilarious and tedious of some of these avoidances. Bishop literally means overseer, Christianity for thousands of years this was a known term. Even Protestant branches use the term, usually as someone who is the head of several churches and it's often more a managerial title than holy one unlike the Catholic and Orthodox churches. There is a certain Irony that a lot of the reform churches of the 19th century (especially JW and LDS) were in such a tizzy to make their own Church so unique that they literally just rebuilt the same church structures only with new fancy names.
I belonged to a congregation where the elders where full of themselves. They often named dropped the elders manual that was for elders eyes only. Even making references to it in comments. Later I went to the Spanish hall and mentioned something about the elders book, and they started integrating me. They asked if my husband had told me about it. He was an elders son. I explained how I learned about it from the English hall where they talked about it all the time. They stared talking about how lose and disorderly the English congregations is, and I was off the hook. Now I kind of wish I could talk to them just to let them know I’ve read their super secret code book. 😆😆😆
I think that the Elder Manual is just one of those things that shows clearly how high control the JW organization is. You don't get to read the procedures that are going to decide over you being, or not being, able to see your family and friends if you go against the dogma after baptizing. It's obscurantist, controlling, unfair and borderline illegal. You don't sign a binding contract without at least the ability to understand all of the implications. I'm so glad I never got baptized.
I doubt that it’s border line illegal. It’s definitely highly, morally unethical and unscriptural. But don’t you think the watchtower lawyers are the ones behind this secret book? Hence all their updates.
@@vusimngomezulu2500 do you know when Armageddon is coming so I can stop sinning about 6 months prior. I want my publisher card to look good so when Jesus returns invisibly again? I want him to say ‘good work sheeeeep’ 😃👍🏼
I was a son* of an elder. I didn't know about the book for quite a while, but was told of it at some point when I was fairly young, by my father. I later came across it in the open one day and, IIRC, I had a look through, but my opportunity was brief so I didn't find anything interesting. Edit: oh yeah and the commands to not listen to conversations with elders in or to not read their stuff? Absolutely a thing for me too. *I've now transitioned and I'm infinitely happier than I ever was back then ☺️
I'm an ex member of Xenos and I've been intrigued by your experiences as they have similarities to mine but 100x more intense. I also have a JW aunt/cousins who never used to come to family gatherings so it's interesting to understand their beliefs more. I had just thought JWs were a quirky type of Christianity with some overly intense interpretations of random innocuous Bible verses (like the blood thing), but I had no idea about the unfulfilled Armageddon prophesies, power structure/governing body, shunning, non-association with non-believers, etc. Growing up I heard people call Xenos a cult, but as a kid the word conjured images on hooded figures sacrificing chickens in candle-lit rooms and I was like "we're definitely not that." Even after leaving in high school, I didn't think it was a cult because members don't have to pay money, our leaders didn't have mansions or practice polygamy, or other Charles Manson/Scientology stuff. But a term like high-demand really applies: pressure to devote more and more of your life to your walk with God. The college ministry especially does this to the point of being cult-like.
When you were talking about how watching ex-mormon videos was helpful to you in your religious trauma recovery, that's actually how I came across you. I was raised Catholic and converted to Evangelical while also in the Army. I've been untangling myself from the consequences of high-control groups for the last few years, and you've been incredibly helpful in my recovery
So true. I feel like watching things about other high control groups helps me have an objective view not tangled with my old emotional connection to JWs. I can just see that what I experienced is common to high control groups. At that is a relief somehow.
I want to start a petition that FORCES Jake to let Beau/Bo to stay in the room with him at all times no matter WHAT the cat destroys. It's not about YOU, JAKE, it's about ME and my need to see BO/Beau run amok.
I’m so excited for this. I’m out 10 years now and finally not terrified of the elders manual anymore 😂 I was one of those sisters who took the admonition not to even touch the book very seriously. If I was alone with the book in a room I’d probably leave.
What I have noticed is when most men leave the Organization, they all grow facial hair, I love it. Go boys, if you have it, flaunt it, go big. Thank you for the information, appreciated. Extra thought, buy a Harley if you can afford it, nothing like the freedom of the wind in your face on a country ride, especially when you zoom past a Kingdom Hall, and see it, and know it, for what it is.
My mother who has been married to my elder dad for 49 years had no idea there was a secret elder’s book and I didn’t know until I left the Borg last year
The most infuriating part of the elders book was actually the gambling section for me. Tragic back story time: I knew a woman whose husband left her. She had two kids and got a job cleaning hotel rooms at a casino at night. The elders made her give it up because they claimed she was supporting gambling! They even had a marking talk, after her first warning when she wouldn’t give it up. Got a job cleaning houses with a JW, but she wasn’t making as much and couldn’t be back in time to pick up her kids from school. Her family suffered and then they criticized her for her kids getting in trouble. Cut to a few years later I’m in another congregation. A MS works at a BLOOD bank. I’m shocked. I’m told that he doesn’t know rather the particular blood he is drawing is going to a blood transfusion, or for some sort of medical experiment. Plus how can they ask a man providing for his family to give up his job in the middle of a recession. It really bothered me. Just another thing I left in Jehovah’s hands.
The problem you have is that you are being to logical that's beyond there comprehension. If it's not in a WT or quoted chapter and verse it's to complicated because it involves using your God given brain. Sounds like bullying the example you used easy to pick on a Woman but not so much the Male in your post.
I was a daughter of an elder and i never knew about the secret book. I never learned about it till I started watching exjw content a year ago. Of course that was more then 40 years ago. I left the organization 30 years ago. That is interesting back then and being able to fade. 😅
I grew up being the son of an Elder and never knew about it. Until I had a JW roommate who was an Elder and he told me about the Circumstantial Evidence rule. It was the first time the religion pissed me off. I can't believe I didn't wake up then.
I think the part about instructions to call authorities for cases of vandalism or tress-passing is because they wouldn't mind if that got out into media because it would feed into the organizational persecution complex, for it to look like innocent victim.
absolutely. Whereas admitting to 'one of us' doing wrong.... Something that so many groups, religious, sporting, other clubs like scouting etc have faced. Where groups have been glad to receive a volunteer and before the modern safeguarding and police checks, they were targets for predators to get access to young people and the resulting damage, which sadly was then covered up in order to protect the reputation of the organisations. We have to admit to that as well as doing better now and forward.
Jake, you've got a great speaking voice. Your tone and candence have a way of punctuating your points. I just got finished listening to your judicial committee meeting. I could sense the gears spinning in the elders heads as you spoke. They were clearly impressed with your arguments at certain points. Has anyone ever told you that you sound like Mo Rocca? Well you do - and that's a good thing. It's a great voice for narrating. Keep up the good work!
Hey Jake, although this is my first comment, I have been watching many of your videos and have found them so helpful during my coming out and being PIMO phase. I just became PIMO this Thanksgiving and you have been a major help in my need to consume apostate material. I feel like the only thing I've done other than eat, sleep, and work is consume all of this life changing material, and so having another open source to provide it is amazing. So thank you so much for your channel, it is definitely helping tons of people. Much love to you, brother!
If a JW murdered someone ….they would not want an eyewitness before calling the police. They just don’t see CSA as a serious crime, they see it as a sin. They always will as this is an opportunistic belief that helps protect the brand and keep scandals quiet.
Interestingly, finding out about this "secret book" in my 30s, as a lifelong witness, it was the first time I felt angry at the organization. It was a defininte catalyst to my fading.
Same here. I couldn’t believe it existed, and I *really* couldn’t believe that people I knew had known about it and kept it secret. I genuinely thought the organization didn’t have secretive rules and stuff. I just assumed “the rules” were provided to everyone equally because that makes the most sense.
I remember that book binding & laminating fanatacism! Hilarious. Thanks for spending your time to calmly and intellectually educate others on this terrible group of humans. Big love!
The fortune cookie conversation was so funny to me. I was never a witness but growing up my parents always said you had to eat the cookie first THEN read the fortune in order for it to come true.
Jason Breshears, Archaix, indicates I’m an “errant”! I was 36 years in, served a few years as a MS early on, avoided the grooming for elder, couldn’t be bothered by corporate cult guidelines.
Hi Jake! I am an old JW and recently we both my husband and I left the cult. Do you remember reading the WT January 1, 1997, it says that being an apostate is wordy than a pedophile. How did we even miss this back then?
Hi, I’ve been studying on and off with the JWs for many years. To me it seems difficult to become a baptized JW. I studied “What does The Bible Really Teach” book and now the “Enjoy Life Forever”.😅 Many requirements, too many books to read, long meetings, field service, cleaning duties, Watch Tower, Awake, Life and Ministry, daily Scripture reading book on and on and on. Whew 😰 And now with the app it’s never ending broadcastings and more material, videos etc.. The people at Bethel don’t want us to have spare time. t seems more like preparing for a career.
Please do some deep diving into this religion start with y dark history of the JWs on YT Kristy Anne has is a good channel exposing the dirt of the Watchtower .
Yes its all engrossing to the extent that you virtually do nothing except what they "encourage" you to do. Multiple meetings, study & prestudy , give answers in meetings but only the answers that are provided in their litrrature, field service every weekend for several hours, return visits & follow ups on people that took literature then conduct " bible studies" , then they constantly "encourage" the rank and file to do regular auxilliary pioneering 60 hrs field service each month) , plus hall cleaning etc etc and so it goes on. They dont tell you that when they "study" with you with the goal of getting you baptised. And once you are baptised, if you leave, you most probably will be shunned by the congregation and if you are unfortunate to have family members in the JW Ministry of Truth, they will shun you as well. My advice to anyone thinking of becoming a member is to have a good social network OUTSIDE of the JW community because if you ever leave, you will be thankful.
When an elder encourages his son to just fade instead of disassociating, it kind of gives away the whole game. Essentially, the elder is either suggesting that you fool Jehovah's holy spirit or that there is no Jehovah.
I am a christian and i thouroughly enjoy your show! I have family who are ex witnesses but ive never spoken to them about their experiences. Its heart breaking to hear some of this. Some "orthodox" christians are honestly guilty of many of the same practices. Being controlling soft shunning people being judgemental making up random rules etc. So i am also filtering through that lense. Your grasp of biblical truth is very impressive that I do feel (my personal unwarranted opinion that you never asked for) that your connection to God was/is? real because you were able to read and discern for yourself. Maybe some would call that just having common sense but I think there is something there. I am referencing your talk with your elders that you shared. Anyway thanks for the content
I never knew about the Elders Manual for most of my time being baptized. It wasn't until about four years ago or so when there was a situation in which someone disassociated. I was out in service with an elder and we went to a restaurant for lunch. It was here when we ran into this person at a restaurant. At the time I was always taught that a disassociated person was to be shunned the same as a disfellowshiped person. So I was shocked when the elder I was with started talking to this person. He wasn't even preaching to this person, the elder was just basically shooting the breeze. After we left the restaurant I remember asking the elder about this. I remember saying,"Isn't it against the rules to associate with a disfellowshiped person?". To which the elder then explained that this person was disassociated and not disfellowshiped. The elder told me that technically there is a difference and a disassociated person wasn't as bad as one who is disfellowshiped. I remember being confused and I asked him where in the watchtower it ever stated this. He then told me it was in the Sheppard The Flock Book and that the book lays out a difference between disfellowshiping and disassociation. Which at that time I had never heard of the Sheppard The Flock Book. I asked the elder, "How can I get a copy of that book?". To which he then told me that it was a book only elders could get. So then I asked if I could borrow his copy and he promptly told me "No". I just remember at that time finding it odd that there was an elders book that I couldn't read. Unfortunately I just sort of shelved that doubt for a number of more years.
Haha! If that is the case, why does the announcement just say ‘XX is no longer a JW’? Why wouldn’t they differentiate between disassociated and disfellowshipped people so you know who to shun and who to soft shun?
I disassociated on 1 May 2023. Following Wednesday they announced me as no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The elders are my meeting with them a day prior to my letter of disassociation said it’s the same outcome for both DA and being disfellowshipped. Current JWs can’t speak and associate with me and since then I’ve been ignored.
Raised as a witness and finally escaped when I turned 18, I'm now 25. I remember hearing at the Bible studies with my elder about the shepherds book and when i asked he was surprisingly open about it. He wouldn't let me read it but he did show it to me. Knowing there was a secret book I couldn't read eventually led me to doing more research and leaving. On a side note I genuinely think he was a heartfelt Christian. He never lied to me about anything and even offered really great advice in some tough situations. He died as a witness.
Wow, ex Mormon podcasts/videos/experiences is what started me waking up too! Seeing the similarities to gods "one true organization" was a real wake up call. I live in Utah and one of the first things I did was go to an ex mo meet up. I made a couple of friends that way who have been so supportive and are such cool people!
They also tell JW's that they don't keep files on publishers. Not talking about the blue files... Loophole alert!!! I'm in the "smokes medical marijuana" file😂
I had the super-jw mother back in the day but even she snuck a copy of the elders book and was part of a congregation wide black listing of a bunch of the older sisters that read the book
Called a protest beard for many. I was baptized and had a beard. After a year as a lowly publisher I was getting soft shunned by the elders. I had many interesting conversations with hahaha the householders. I observed people were more relaxed talking with me because I had a beard. There was so much concern over my facial hair. Finally the time came that I said to the elders. I'm going to shave my beard not because it's stumbling the publishers,but because its stumbling the elders. I use that story today to the witnesses today and have even told it to the elders of other congregations. To the sisters who said it's nice to see you shaved your beard I replied,' don't get to excited, the elders will not call on you for the watchtower commenting or will work with you in service if you wear slacks. ...and I hear that the sisters will be told that wearing your hair short will be another reason to be called to the boogie room. Usually the library where jehovah makes his judgements through 3 overweight judgmental goons with frumpy suits. None have beards. Many have mustaches, or sideburns that are longer than the men of the world. Me thinks I could have cut a vertical strip on my chin about a pencil width and told them I don't have a beard, just very long sideburns. 🙃 what really frazzled the poor sisters is that I said in serious manner , I complied because I didn't want to loose jehovahs favor and bring reproach on his name. Now I ll let you know that it's coming down the pipe. I shouldn't te you this but the sisters are going to be counseled on their grooming habits. As you know alot of makeup, hairstyles, necklines showing cleavage and legs exposed through various styles of pantyhose. Fishnet, glimmering nylons, colors etc. They mention that the sisters shouldn't shave their pits and that way the brothers won't be seduced when the sisters wear sleevless tops. Are you prepared to let your legs and pits go unshaven or unwanted so you don't bring brothers to have an unclean mind? The jaws drop. I asked the elders why do the brothers have no beards? One answer was because then we look like bikers. I have a 🏍. Well he said it looks dirty. What? Didn't Jesus have a beard? He says well he had to. He was under the law. I said did he shave it off after his resurrection? Further I said, Why are we trying to look like Egyptians when we should look like Israelites. Look at all these male singers on the inside cover of the songbook...they all have beards. Long flowing beards. Further to the argument an elder said with the beard you look homeless. I spun on my heels and looked at another elder and said you want me to look like this elder. He looks like a politician. My question is who is the householder going to trust more. The homeless guy or the politician? I tried so very hard to teach critical thinking skills. Look back on those years and miss the entertainment i made for myself through the simple minds that conveyed the message from God's inspired men in Brooklyn. Who knew of all the evil that lurked within the watchtower organization when there was no internet. A few did. Can you imagine the strength those I'll call brothers and sisters had. We have a whole community of ex witnesses now. Thankyou for all your work and to those you help
43:10 it just occurred to me that JW's time & time again in different publications and videos say that we aren't part of the clergy. So can an argument be made that since they aren't part of the clergy, they don't get the clergy-church member privacy privilege?
I was wanting to share my efforts at self plugging with my fight against kidney cancer. I know other exjw's will understand the struggle to ask for assistance but I do need whatever help you can offer. I don't know how to share this with the community.
Ex Catholic here, I'm one of those crazy folks who just loves talking to JW and LDS door knockers. I've read a lot about religions, it always fascinates me to learn about things I simply don't believe. (Like why folks like Die Meistersinger hahaha) I find ex-religious folks, because most of us have suffered, and are observant, make for wonderful friends. Kind, caring cooperative, and sharply funny. I've helped ex-JWs often in the past and enjoy immensely these channels. thanks you guys for this. JIM, Oaxaca Mexico
It just floors me, as someone whose denomination requires every congregation to have a "safe sanctuaries" policy outlining how abuse of children and other vulnerable individuals will be prevented, (what the reporting procedures are, requiring mandatory reporter training for all staff, outlining background check requirements for volunteers, staffing and visibility requirements for all programs including vulnerable individuals, etc.) that there are still groups who haven't realized that being open and responsible is both the only remotely responsible choice and makes the organization look much better in the eyes of others. The only reason I can think of for NOT instituting such policy and education requirements as a MINIMUM is because they actually WANT to foster abusers and abuse. I think it's really just that they are afraid and poorly educated, but solving the latter would take care of the former, so I am not willing to extend the benefit of the doubt in the face of their willful ignorance.
You mentioned CSA and how maybe it is hard to have a set rule as laws vary across states and countries - however a best practice can be enforced by the org across all branches if they choose to. It doesn't matter if there is state rules about mandatory reporting; or clergy privilege, the JW's can command their people to report to local authorities. In UK there is not a mandatory reporting rule, and yet social workers, teachers, and denominational churches are all currently trained to report. Ie if someone discloses SA to any of my church members or minister then we are trained to take the account seriously, ie hear the person as believed, but to refer to the authorities that are trained to evaluate the accusations and respond appropriately. Within the church context we are also given guidance to support both the accuser and the accused whilst letting the legal process play out (and the accuser support and the accused is separated out)
Can any minor be complicit in sexual activity?!! I don’t buy into a child could have any real consent in under age sexual activity. The adult should recognize that THIS IS A MINOR. I don’t care if the minor seems sexual…. It’s the adult that is responsible. HOW is this seriously not abundantly clear?!
Absolutely - a minor is considered not able to consent with understanding therefore 'consent' as a minor is meaningless, it is for the adults to take responsibility. There can be 18 yr old with 17 yr old which may be viewed as less, but when as a friend in school at 17 was pregnant by her church leader in his 30s plus - that is abusive, regardless if he divorced his wife to marry my friend
As a faded JW of 35 yrs, Im surprised that the JW Ministry of Truth didnt have the Elders manual written in code that was decipherable only by an enigma like machine. That is about the level of paranoia they exhibit.
It's funny cause I never would have thought twice about how we weren't allowed to see the Elders book or know the rules, that was just almost a given really
When I was like 8 or 9, I had a friend who was a witness… I’m not sure for how long, truthfully. She and her mom may have been converts for her stepdad. It was not a healthy home, but that aside I remember spending like 20 minutes on the phone with her mom trying to convince her to let her go trick or treating with me that Halloween. In my little brain Halloween wasn’t a religious thing because we didn’t go to church for it, so I thought it made no sense that my friend couldn’t go with me. I distinctly recall just repeating “it’s just costumes and candy!” Over and over. Thinking back on it, I wonder 1)why my mom let me do that, 2)why my friend’s mom actually gave in 3) how much trouble they got in because I just wanted to have fun with my one good friend.
Thank you both for a great video I was a born in for 27 years father less single sister and faded been out since 2018, best choice ever…, just to say that I a have cousin who has been witnesses for years and the mother hangs out with her daughter who is unbaptized the daughter does not want anything to do with the religion but the mother hangs around her or even takes trips with her daughter and is still going strong to the Kingdom Hall the mother shuns me treats like there is something wrong with me it is just so full of hypocrisy unbelievable… keep up the good work…
Thank you! When a friend showed me how to access the elders handbook, I quickly realized that once you peek behind the curtain it is painfully obvious that Jehovah is absent in the decision making of this man made orginaziton.
I'm in Honduras. In an occasion, long ago (by the 80s) an elder sent me to bind or re bind the old book he had, with the warning of not seeing in. I was a ministerial servant not appointed yet. Of course I didn't. It disturbed me thinking the "society" slid a 🔪 through the 🍰 of the congregation not letting the rest to have one. Later I gave the book back fixed. I didn't care about its content. Still now.
I never heard of the book until I looked at these videos..my husband didn’t know and his dad was an Elder for years and even my mother in law had no idea..when my father in law passed my husband and I were and continue to be Pimo and husband went to look for it in his dad’s things. And literally my mother in law got rid of all elder things within literally days after his passing.. so we never got to see anything. We only knew it existed because of these activists videos.
The book explains how double standards exist within the congregation. Despite being PIMI for 30 years, I only recently discovered its existence, and the loopholes shocked me. The Shepherd book is like a second mini mosaic law.
I'm a diffed girl, who became a paramedic and was told by my mom, wife of an elder that I was throughing the gift of life back in gods face by being a paramedic.
I grew up JW and my wife grew up morman, we laugh about how similar the control groups behaved in the 80s 90s and 2000s. We are thankful we both seen it for what it is and found each other.
Love your videos brother and I don't know why I'm so interested in ExJW content as I was never part of this cult. The only thing I can point to is that my mother was studying with the JWs when I was younger after my father passed away and I do remember going to the kingdom hall a few times. I'm so thankful that she was snapped out of everything before the indoctrination really had a chance to take hold.
None of my family members are witnesses, but my grandmother is a pentecostal. And while there are clear differences between the two, I think that it is interesting that I can relate to some of the things you are saying based on my grandmother and her beliefs, especially regarding homosexuality. Also, I just recently found out that pentecostal churches also are considered to be cults, and now I don't understand why I never thought of them as cults before.
It's like LE once said, Call the police if an allegation of abuse happened is all would be needed for the chapter on CSA! Great stream Jake, I still haven't received my copy of the recent book, but once I get a copy I'm going to send it to my local police department. It seems that my city is a big hub for sex trafficking and some CSA. And it's always to be regular or a good constitution of the body!
Agree, the authorities should be called. Or if there is a clergy law in place, encourage the victims and their families to go to the authorities. I don’t know why, but the CP response surprised me! Not sure about other countries, however here in Australia CP Is prohibited! Once again, the response should be: call the authorities!
Petty gambling - define what that is? Is it the local event raffle ticket to win a box of chocolates, or a once a year bet on the national horse race? or....??? As a member of the UK Methodist Church which was against gambling (as something that stumbled people, as with alcohol on church premises) but adjusted that to allow what might be 'petty gambling', at least they were clear about what the boundaries were (and about church events, or events on the church premises not about individual members). We can hold raffles as long as tickets only sold at the event (church fair etc) and no prize worth more than £50. Though I do remember as a child that no tombola stalls allowed unless a 'prize every time' though prize could be worth less than the cost to play, and as all donated anyway still works as a fundraiser.
How can it be copyrighted as a religious writing of an organized religion I don't see that as we should make a law where copyrights are avoid for religious organizations it doesn't sound right like you can't copyright the Bible it's and there's only certain I want some time to for a copy rights that are even enforceable
I am a Christian witch and I've been a solo practitioner for 27 years and 20 years makes you an elder a kind of when I started practicing because I studied for five years before I started practicing was kind of I felt like I shouldn't be considered so low as a initiate I've been studying for five years initiates the first rank when you're initiating yourself into witchcraft and I wasn't really in an organization so I was like thinking I should be like to a heart higher rank now I'm like yeah I just started but now I'm an elder anyway and well passed but I get people Who are witches that haven't even been alive as long as I've been practicing that are pretty well educated and witches that are practicing for two years and think they know everything and think they're above me and I've been practicing since before they were born a lot of them and as part of my study I study even other religions so I love learning about other cultures and religions I've never really seen an actual church for my form of witchcraft so I am looking into may be starting a church myself but it was not the things as many other ones were burned by Christianity it's that I was taught to learn for myself and make up my own mind as being Reyes Lutheran I still to appoint consider myself Lutheran as a witch as I like to follow some of the teachings of Martin Luther But I love learning about even the Colts and actually any religion I consider a cult look at the early way they talked about Christianity the cult of Christianity
They have to be legal. They have to have a legal secretary. It’s boring to non elders but I’m sure it’s a good guide for elders. It stops elders making personal or bias decisions.
TL, DR I read a textbook for elders that I borrowed from an elder when I was a Bible student. As I was studying with the witnesses, I asked the husband (who was the elder) of the sister conducting the study if they had any guidelines so that each elder would not feel left to himself what decisions to make, what to do. He told me about this book and showed me the cover, said it was a special manual for the elders only. I asked if it was secret and if JWs, apart from the elders, could not read it. He stated that it is not forbidden, but only the elders need it, so others do not read it. I asked if I could borrow this book and he lent it to me, but he said reading it is rather boring and useless for non-elders, that it is like reading secular laws for non-lawyers. I read it and found that it really is boring and useless for non-elders. I missed these nuances about CSA. It was in 2007 or 2008, so maybe it was previous edition of manual.
The Elder book doesn't frighten me as much as Dwelling Toghether in Unity and how little money and basic job rights/benefits people working at Bethel actually get. It's really sad they have been suckered into it. As they likely prey on those not educated or experienced in industry I'm not shocked that they "don't know any better," but it's shameful how little they support their own people with basic features found even in a McDonald's position.
About the CSA, apart from the obvious moral issues which are a discussion of their own, I would say the age guidelines are legally speaking quite in line with most western societies. The problem is the vague terms, which they will stubbornly hold on to. Someone close to adulthood is super vague and could be interpreted way too broadly. But say here in Finland the age of consent is 16, in Sweden it's 15. That is someone who is an older minor close to adulthood. And the law can't say anything to a 16 year old sleeping with a 30 year old or older. They can give consent and be a "willing participant", although in other ways they are still minors. Of course the law is stricter if the adult is in a position of authority. Also, the law doesn't normally punish two minors who are 2-3 years apart in age. That would sort of sound like what the elder manual was going for. CSA would be someone 18 or older having sex with someone under 15-16 years of age. However, because of the vague language, elders could punish someone 12-15 years old for their own abuse, and have. Of course "spiritual" people should go above and beyond to protect anyone under 18 and perhaps older from grooming. And everyday people as well usually find someone aged 16-17 dating a clearly older person problematic here as well, though the law doesn't protect them per se. And when it comes to CP, the authorities have sometimes trouble pinning down the perpetrators. I think posession, making and distribution is an offence, but viewing per se is not. So the person needs to be caught with the material on his harddrive to convict. And the offence is lighter when compared to CSA. In that way, getting a verbal confession that a person has viewed the material and isn't in posession of it anymore, is a difficult position. But again, the obvious moral issues that that raises are still there for the elders too, and they should note that the person is not safe for children to be with, or have a position of authority. But legally speaking, that person might not be convicted either.
I think fading was probably easier without social media. You might have been harder to track down and contact. However, finding contrary information, logical counter arguments and support networks for people leaving their religion was more difficult.
You HAVE to watch season 3 episodes 1+2 of the mockumentary series Documentary Now! It's called "Batshit Valley" and it's effing hilarious. It's about a cult and Owen Wilson is the leader lolol
My husband, not a witness, told his hard core JW sister and elder husband that he downloaded the elders book from the internet. They were speechless! 😜
Sadly many elders wives know nothing about it. A number left the organization and their husbands after having read it. A number of these women became RUclips activists. The other dirty secret book is the Child Custody case book that prepares JW spouses how to commit perjury to win custody against a former-JW or Never-JW spouse.
mind controlled secret society's are sitting ducks in the free speech world of the internet . game over checkmate .
That's awesome
Wahoooo! Can't call HIM an apostate! 😁
@@ready2danceagain it was shortly before I woke up, but it made me smile inside a little. They couldn’t get over it though and she called me the next day to say how shocked she was. I told her you can find anything on the internet these days.
I’ve been out 10 years and I am finally able to tell ppl that I grew up in a cult which helps me be open with ppl because it’s awkward to say you have no childhood memories of Christmas or that your family won’t speak to you or that you just finished college in your 30s. I just feel so alienated but when I share w ppl my JW history it kind of wraps all that up in a bow and I find ppl are so supportive.
I always find Watchtowers avoidance of using the historical/traditional words found throughout Christendom is really telling.
"District overseer" is probably the most hilarious and tedious of some of these avoidances.
Bishop literally means overseer, Christianity for thousands of years this was a known term.
Even Protestant branches use the term, usually as someone who is the head of several churches and it's often more a managerial title than holy one unlike the Catholic and Orthodox churches.
There is a certain Irony that a lot of the reform churches of the 19th century (especially JW and LDS) were in such a tizzy to make their own Church so unique that they literally just rebuilt the same church structures only with new fancy names.
I belonged to a congregation where the elders where full of themselves. They often named dropped the elders manual that was for elders eyes only. Even making references to it in comments. Later I went to the Spanish hall and mentioned something about the elders book, and they started integrating me. They asked if my husband had told me about it. He was an elders son. I explained how I learned about it from the English hall where they talked about it all the time. They stared talking about how lose and disorderly the English congregations is, and I was off the hook. Now I kind of wish I could talk to them just to let them know I’ve read their super secret code book. 😆😆😆
the beef between the english & spanish congregations sometimes would be wild! lol so much for unity
Great, a conversation topic with a cup of coffee ☕ on the counter.
@@vusimngomezulu2500 🤣🤣🤣🤣 surely
I think that the Elder Manual is just one of those things that shows clearly how high control the JW organization is. You don't get to read the procedures that are going to decide over you being, or not being, able to see your family and friends if you go against the dogma after baptizing. It's obscurantist, controlling, unfair and borderline illegal. You don't sign a binding contract without at least the ability to understand all of the implications. I'm so glad I never got baptized.
I doubt that it’s border line illegal. It’s definitely highly, morally unethical and unscriptural. But don’t you think the watchtower lawyers are the ones behind this secret book? Hence all their updates.
@@vusimngomezulu2500 do you know when Armageddon is coming so I can stop sinning about 6 months prior. I want my publisher card to look good so when Jesus returns invisibly again? I want him to say ‘good work sheeeeep’ 😃👍🏼
Niklo
@@hustonmices3976 baaaaaa in Lett’s voice
You are right. It’s illegal
I was a son* of an elder. I didn't know about the book for quite a while, but was told of it at some point when I was fairly young, by my father. I later came across it in the open one day and, IIRC, I had a look through, but my opportunity was brief so I didn't find anything interesting.
Edit: oh yeah and the commands to not listen to conversations with elders in or to not read their stuff? Absolutely a thing for me too.
*I've now transitioned and I'm infinitely happier than I ever was back then ☺️
I'm an ex member of Xenos and I've been intrigued by your experiences as they have similarities to mine but 100x more intense. I also have a JW aunt/cousins who never used to come to family gatherings so it's interesting to understand their beliefs more.
I had just thought JWs were a quirky type of Christianity with some overly intense interpretations of random innocuous Bible verses (like the blood thing), but I had no idea about the unfulfilled Armageddon prophesies, power structure/governing body, shunning, non-association with non-believers, etc.
Growing up I heard people call Xenos a cult, but as a kid the word conjured images on hooded figures sacrificing chickens in candle-lit rooms and I was like "we're definitely not that." Even after leaving in high school, I didn't think it was a cult because members don't have to pay money, our leaders didn't have mansions or practice polygamy, or other Charles Manson/Scientology stuff. But a term like high-demand really applies: pressure to devote more and more of your life to your walk with God. The college ministry especially does this to the point of being cult-like.
When you were talking about how watching ex-mormon videos was helpful to you in your religious trauma recovery, that's actually how I came across you. I was raised Catholic and converted to Evangelical while also in the Army. I've been untangling myself from the consequences of high-control groups for the last few years, and you've been incredibly helpful in my recovery
YES at Chris Shelton
So true. I feel like watching things about other high control groups helps me have an objective view not tangled with my old emotional connection to JWs. I can just see that what I experienced is common to high control groups. At that is a relief somehow.
I want to start a petition that FORCES Jake to let Beau/Bo to stay in the room with him at all times no matter WHAT the cat destroys. It's not about YOU, JAKE, it's about ME and my need to see BO/Beau run amok.
😂😂
I’m so excited for this. I’m out 10 years now and finally not terrified of the elders manual anymore 😂 I was one of those sisters who took the admonition not to even touch the book very seriously. If I was alone with the book in a room I’d probably leave.
What I have noticed is when most men leave the Organization, they all grow facial hair, I love it. Go boys, if you have it, flaunt it, go big. Thank you for the information, appreciated. Extra thought, buy a Harley if you can afford it, nothing like the freedom of the wind in your face on a country ride, especially when you zoom past a Kingdom Hall, and see it, and know it, for what it is.
My mother who has been married to my elder dad for 49 years had no idea there was a secret elder’s book and I didn’t know until I left the Borg last year
The most infuriating part of the elders book was actually the gambling section for me. Tragic back story time: I knew a woman whose husband left her. She had two kids and got a job cleaning hotel rooms at a casino at night. The elders made her give it up because they claimed she was supporting gambling! They even had a marking talk, after her first warning when she wouldn’t give it up. Got a job cleaning houses with a JW, but she wasn’t making as much and couldn’t be back in time to pick up her kids from school. Her family suffered and then they criticized her for her kids getting in trouble. Cut to a few years later I’m in another congregation. A MS works at a BLOOD bank. I’m shocked. I’m told that he doesn’t know rather the particular blood he is drawing is going to a blood transfusion, or for some sort of medical experiment. Plus how can they ask a man providing for his family to give up his job in the middle of a recession. It really bothered me. Just another thing I left in Jehovah’s hands.
yes that whole '6 months to adjust' = to find a different job before we shun you.
Thats so wild!! But not surprised. Like who do they think they are to tell someone to quit their job?? Are you gonna be paying my bills mr. elder???
The problem you have is that you are being to logical that's beyond there comprehension.
If it's not in a WT or quoted chapter and verse it's to complicated because it involves using your God given brain.
Sounds like bullying the example you used easy to pick on a Woman but not so much the Male in your post.
@@vusimngomezulu2500 We are talking about the article and not you or your opinion.
@@vusimngomezulu2500 The difference is I don't claim to unlike many religious groups. Misleading people.
Matt was first ex I viewed, and I’m grateful for it! Thank you both.
Keep unwitnnessing to all we meet!
I was a daughter of an elder and i never knew about the secret book. I never learned about it till I started watching exjw content a year ago. Of course that was more then 40 years ago. I left the organization 30 years ago. That is interesting back then and being able to fade. 😅
I grew up being the son of an Elder and never knew about it.
Until I had a JW roommate who was an Elder and he told me about the Circumstantial Evidence rule. It was the first time the religion pissed me off. I can't believe I didn't wake up then.
I think the part about instructions to call authorities for cases of vandalism or tress-passing is because they wouldn't mind if that got out into media because it would feed into the organizational persecution complex, for it to look like innocent victim.
absolutely. Whereas admitting to 'one of us' doing wrong.... Something that so many groups, religious, sporting, other clubs like scouting etc have faced. Where groups have been glad to receive a volunteer and before the modern safeguarding and police checks, they were targets for predators to get access to young people and the resulting damage, which sadly was then covered up in order to protect the reputation of the organisations. We have to admit to that as well as doing better now and forward.
Jake, you've got a great speaking voice. Your tone and candence have a way of punctuating your points. I just got finished listening to your judicial committee meeting. I could sense the gears spinning in the elders heads as you spoke. They were clearly impressed with your arguments at certain points. Has anyone ever told you that you sound like Mo Rocca? Well you do - and that's a good thing. It's a great voice for narrating. Keep up the good work!
Omg yes you had to have your book study book spiral bound at kinkos!!! I thought I was so cool when I did that. 😂 😂 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hey Jake, although this is my first comment, I have been watching many of your videos and have found them so helpful during my coming out and being PIMO phase. I just became PIMO this Thanksgiving and you have been a major help in my need to consume apostate material. I feel like the only thing I've done other than eat, sleep, and work is consume all of this life changing material, and so having another open source to provide it is amazing. So thank you so much for your channel, it is definitely helping tons of people. Much love to you, brother!
If a JW murdered someone ….they would not want an eyewitness before calling the police. They just don’t see CSA as a serious crime, they see it as a sin. They always will as this is an opportunistic belief that helps protect the brand and keep scandals quiet.
Interestingly, finding out about this "secret book" in my 30s, as a lifelong witness, it was the first time I felt angry at the organization. It was a defininte catalyst to my fading.
It wasn't until I was 26 when I found out. It was the first time I was pissed off with the religion.
Same here. I couldn’t believe it existed, and I *really* couldn’t believe that people I knew had known about it and kept it secret.
I genuinely thought the organization didn’t have secretive rules and stuff. I just assumed “the rules” were provided to everyone equally because that makes the most sense.
You deserve way more subscribers.
I remember that book binding & laminating fanatacism! Hilarious. Thanks for spending your time to calmly and intellectually educate others on this terrible group of humans. Big love!
The fortune cookie conversation was so funny to me. I was never a witness but growing up my parents always said you had to eat the cookie first THEN read the fortune in order for it to come true.
shows how superstitions survive even high control groups
Jason Breshears, Archaix, indicates I’m an “errant”! I was 36 years in, served a few years as a MS early on, avoided the grooming for elder, couldn’t be bothered by corporate cult guidelines.
Hi Jake! I am an old JW and recently we both my husband and I left the cult. Do you remember reading the WT January 1, 1997, it says that being an apostate is wordy than a pedophile.
How did we even miss this back then?
Great video! This information is sickening but it goes to show the true colors if an elder ever thinks this is ok in any means 😡
‘Repetition for emphasis’. A phrase that makes EVERY ex jw giggle…but no one else 😂
Hi,
I’ve been studying on and off with the JWs for many years.
To me it seems difficult to become a baptized JW.
I studied “What does The Bible Really Teach” book and now the “Enjoy Life Forever”.😅
Many requirements, too many books to read, long meetings, field service, cleaning duties, Watch Tower, Awake, Life and Ministry, daily Scripture reading book on and on and on.
Whew 😰
And now with the app it’s never ending broadcastings and more material, videos etc..
The people at Bethel don’t want us to have spare time.
t seems more like preparing for a career.
Please do some deep diving into this religion start with y dark history of the JWs on YT Kristy Anne has is a good channel exposing the dirt of the Watchtower .
Yes its all engrossing to the extent that you virtually do nothing except what they "encourage" you to do. Multiple meetings, study & prestudy , give answers in meetings but only the answers that are provided in their litrrature, field service every weekend for several hours, return visits & follow ups on people that took literature then conduct " bible studies" , then they constantly "encourage" the rank and file to do regular auxilliary pioneering 60 hrs field service each month) , plus hall cleaning etc etc and so it goes on. They dont tell you that when they "study" with you with the goal of getting you baptised. And once you are baptised, if you leave, you most probably will be shunned by the congregation and if you are unfortunate to have family members in the JW Ministry of Truth, they will shun you as well. My advice to anyone thinking of becoming a member is to have a good social network OUTSIDE of the JW community because if you ever leave, you will be thankful.
When an elder encourages his son to just fade instead of disassociating, it kind of gives away the whole game. Essentially, the elder is either suggesting that you fool Jehovah's holy spirit or that there is no Jehovah.
Just added some time stamps to make this behemoth a little more manageable!
Thanks for this guys. Bummer I missed the stream but you guys make the days go by easier.
Ugh I missed the viewer invasion! Having a exjw shout out sounds cool. I know I’m still PIMO but I would love to participate.
I am a christian and i thouroughly enjoy your show! I have family who are ex witnesses but ive never spoken to them about their experiences. Its heart breaking to hear some of this. Some "orthodox" christians are honestly guilty of many of the same practices. Being controlling soft shunning people being judgemental making up random rules etc. So i am also filtering through that lense. Your grasp of biblical truth is very impressive that I do feel (my personal unwarranted opinion that you never asked for) that your connection to God was/is? real because you were able to read and discern for yourself. Maybe some would call that just having common sense but I think there is something there. I am referencing your talk with your elders that you shared. Anyway thanks for the content
I never knew about the Elders Manual for most of my time being baptized.
It wasn't until about four years ago or so when there was a situation in which someone disassociated. I was out in service with an elder and we went to a restaurant for lunch. It was here when we ran into this person at a restaurant. At the time I was always taught that a disassociated person was to be shunned the same as a disfellowshiped person. So I was shocked when the elder I was with started talking to this person. He wasn't even preaching to this person, the elder was just basically shooting the breeze.
After we left the restaurant I remember asking the elder about this. I remember saying,"Isn't it against the rules to associate with a disfellowshiped person?". To which the elder then explained that this person was disassociated and not disfellowshiped. The elder told me that technically there is a difference and a disassociated person wasn't as bad as one who is disfellowshiped. I remember being confused and I asked him where in the watchtower it ever stated this. He then told me it was in the Sheppard The Flock Book and that the book lays out a difference between disfellowshiping and disassociation. Which at that time I had never heard of the Sheppard The Flock Book. I asked the elder, "How can I get a copy of that book?". To which he then told me that it was a book only elders could get. So then I asked if I could borrow his copy and he promptly told me "No".
I just remember at that time finding it odd that there was an elders book that I couldn't read. Unfortunately I just sort of shelved that doubt for a number of more years.
Haha! If that is the case, why does the announcement just say ‘XX is no longer a JW’? Why wouldn’t they differentiate between disassociated and disfellowshipped people so you know who to shun and who to soft shun?
I disassociated on 1 May 2023. Following Wednesday they announced me as no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The elders are my meeting with them a day prior to my letter of disassociation said it’s the same outcome for both DA and being disfellowshipped. Current JWs can’t speak and associate with me and since then I’ve been ignored.
Raised as a witness and finally escaped when I turned 18, I'm now 25. I remember hearing at the Bible studies with my elder about the shepherds book and when i asked he was surprisingly open about it. He wouldn't let me read it but he did show it to me. Knowing there was a secret book I couldn't read eventually led me to doing more research and leaving. On a side note I genuinely think he was a heartfelt Christian. He never lied to me about anything and even offered really great advice in some tough situations. He died as a witness.
Can’t wait to watch!!! ❤
Wow, ex Mormon podcasts/videos/experiences is what started me waking up too! Seeing the similarities to gods "one true organization" was a real wake up call. I live in Utah and one of the first things I did was go to an ex mo meet up. I made a couple of friends that way who have been so supportive and are such cool people!
They also tell JW's that they don't keep files on publishers. Not talking about the blue files... Loophole alert!!! I'm in the "smokes medical marijuana" file😂
With this nice beards you both can be in the cast of watchtower bible dramas.
I had the super-jw mother back in the day but even she snuck a copy of the elders book and was part of a congregation wide black listing of a bunch of the older sisters that read the book
Being an elder is kind of a status. That’s why many people just accept it, without checking all the implications that it brings.
Called a protest beard for many. I was baptized and had a beard. After a year as a lowly publisher I was getting soft shunned by the elders. I had many interesting conversations with hahaha the householders. I observed people were more relaxed talking with me because I had a beard. There was so much concern over my facial hair. Finally the time came that I said to the elders. I'm going to shave my beard not because it's stumbling the publishers,but because its stumbling the elders. I use that story today to the witnesses today and have even told it to the elders of other congregations. To the sisters who said it's nice to see you shaved your beard I replied,' don't get to excited, the elders will not call on you for the watchtower commenting or will work with you in service if you wear slacks. ...and I hear that the sisters will be told that wearing your hair short will be another reason to be called to the boogie room. Usually the library where jehovah makes his judgements through 3 overweight judgmental goons with frumpy suits. None have beards. Many have mustaches, or sideburns that are longer than the men of the world. Me thinks I could have cut a vertical strip on my chin about a pencil width and told them I don't have a beard, just very long sideburns. 🙃 what really frazzled the poor sisters is that I said in serious manner , I complied because I didn't want to loose jehovahs favor and bring reproach on his name. Now I ll let you know that it's coming down the pipe. I shouldn't te you this but the sisters are going to be counseled on their grooming habits. As you know alot of makeup, hairstyles, necklines showing cleavage and legs exposed through various styles of pantyhose. Fishnet, glimmering nylons, colors etc. They mention that the sisters shouldn't shave their pits and that way the brothers won't be seduced when the sisters wear sleevless tops. Are you prepared to let your legs and pits go unshaven or unwanted so you don't bring brothers to have an unclean mind? The jaws drop. I asked the elders why do the brothers have no beards? One answer was because then we look like bikers. I have a 🏍. Well he said it looks dirty. What? Didn't Jesus have a beard? He says well he had to. He was under the law. I said did he shave it off after his resurrection? Further I said, Why are we trying to look like Egyptians when we should look like Israelites. Look at all these male singers on the inside cover of the songbook...they all have beards. Long flowing beards. Further to the argument an elder said with the beard you look homeless. I spun on my heels and looked at another elder and said you want me to look like this elder. He looks like a politician. My question is who is the householder going to trust more. The homeless guy or the politician? I tried so very hard to teach critical thinking skills. Look back on those years and miss the entertainment i made for myself through the simple minds that conveyed the message from God's inspired men in Brooklyn. Who knew of all the evil that lurked within the watchtower organization when there was no internet. A few did. Can you imagine the strength those I'll call brothers and sisters had. We have a whole community of ex witnesses now. Thankyou for all your work and to those you help
I don't inderatand. CP on a computer is a crime. Counsel is not enough. Jail is enough.
43:10 it just occurred to me that JW's time & time again in different publications and videos say that we aren't part of the clergy. So can an argument be made that since they aren't part of the clergy, they don't get the clergy-church member privacy privilege?
Like most things, they pick and choose as the need arises.
Learning this makes me feel so disgusted and taken advantage of. Glad I escaped.
I was wanting to share my efforts at self plugging with my fight against kidney cancer. I know other exjw's will understand the struggle to ask for assistance but I do need whatever help you can offer. I don't know how to share this with the community.
Ex Catholic here, I'm one of those crazy folks who just loves talking to JW and LDS door knockers. I've read a lot about religions, it always fascinates me to learn about things I simply don't believe. (Like why folks like Die Meistersinger hahaha) I find ex-religious folks, because most of us have suffered, and are observant, make for wonderful friends. Kind, caring cooperative, and sharply funny. I've helped ex-JWs often in the past and enjoy immensely these channels. thanks you guys for this. JIM, Oaxaca Mexico
It just floors me, as someone whose denomination requires every congregation to have a "safe sanctuaries" policy outlining how abuse of children and other vulnerable individuals will be prevented, (what the reporting procedures are, requiring mandatory reporter training for all staff, outlining background check requirements for volunteers, staffing and visibility requirements for all programs including vulnerable individuals, etc.) that there are still groups who haven't realized that being open and responsible is both the only remotely responsible choice and makes the organization look much better in the eyes of others. The only reason I can think of for NOT instituting such policy and education requirements as a MINIMUM is because they actually WANT to foster abusers and abuse. I think it's really just that they are afraid and poorly educated, but solving the latter would take care of the former, so I am not willing to extend the benefit of the doubt in the face of their willful ignorance.
You mentioned CSA and how maybe it is hard to have a set rule as laws vary across states and countries - however a best practice can be enforced by the org across all branches if they choose to. It doesn't matter if there is state rules about mandatory reporting; or clergy privilege, the JW's can command their people to report to local authorities.
In UK there is not a mandatory reporting rule, and yet social workers, teachers, and denominational churches are all currently trained to report. Ie if someone discloses SA to any of my church members or minister then we are trained to take the account seriously, ie hear the person as believed, but to refer to the authorities that are trained to evaluate the accusations and respond appropriately. Within the church context we are also given guidance to support both the accuser and the accused whilst letting the legal process play out (and the accuser support and the accused is separated out)
Can any minor be complicit in sexual activity?!! I don’t buy into a child could have any real consent in under age sexual activity. The adult should recognize that THIS IS A MINOR. I don’t care if the minor seems sexual…. It’s the adult that is responsible. HOW is this seriously not abundantly clear?!
Absolutely - a minor is considered not able to consent with understanding therefore 'consent' as a minor is meaningless, it is for the adults to take responsibility. There can be 18 yr old with 17 yr old which may be viewed as less, but when as a friend in school at 17 was pregnant by her church leader in his 30s plus - that is abusive, regardless if he divorced his wife to marry my friend
As a faded JW of 35 yrs, Im surprised that the JW Ministry of Truth didnt have the Elders manual written in code that was decipherable only by an enigma like machine. That is about the level of paranoia they exhibit.
1:26 “I’m going to try to keep this to a tight 90...”
Me 2 hours 20 mins later...where did all the time go?
😊
It's funny cause I never would have thought twice about how we weren't allowed to see the Elders book or know the rules, that was just almost a given really
When I was like 8 or 9, I had a friend who was a witness… I’m not sure for how long, truthfully. She and her mom may have been converts for her stepdad. It was not a healthy home, but that aside I remember spending like 20 minutes on the phone with her mom trying to convince her to let her go trick or treating with me that Halloween. In my little brain Halloween wasn’t a religious thing because we didn’t go to church for it, so I thought it made no sense that my friend couldn’t go with me. I distinctly recall just repeating “it’s just costumes and candy!” Over and over.
Thinking back on it, I wonder 1)why my mom let me do that, 2)why my friend’s mom actually gave in 3) how much trouble they got in because I just wanted to have fun with my one good friend.
I love the celebrity pop-ins :)
Oddly enough I had a pimi Elder who was convinced the organization had nothing to hide, say you can just read the shepherding book online.
Shepherd Book was my favorite character on Firefly...
Hi I don’t understand the reference to scarfs in the bag and head covering. I’m new to following. Excuse my ignorance 🤦🏽♀️
Thank you both for a great video I was a born in for 27 years father less single sister and faded been out since 2018, best choice ever…, just to say that I a have cousin who has been witnesses for years and the mother hangs out with her daughter who is unbaptized the daughter does not want anything to do with the religion but the mother hangs around her or even takes trips with her daughter and is still going strong to the Kingdom Hall the mother shuns me treats like there is something wrong with me it is just so full of hypocrisy unbelievable… keep up the good work…
Thank you! When a friend showed me how to access the elders handbook, I quickly realized that once you peek behind the curtain it is painfully obvious that Jehovah is absent in the decision making of this man made orginaziton.
I'm in Honduras. In an occasion, long ago (by the 80s) an elder sent me to bind or re bind the old book he had, with the warning of not seeing in. I was a ministerial servant not appointed yet. Of course I didn't.
It disturbed me thinking the "society" slid a 🔪 through the 🍰 of the congregation not letting the rest to have one. Later I gave the book back fixed. I didn't care about its content. Still now.
Of courses we are the sheep of the elders. You can tell by the way we've been fleeced.
I call it: Bible for elders
I never heard of the book until I looked at these videos..my husband didn’t know and his dad was an Elder for years and even my mother in law had no idea..when my father in law passed my husband and I were and continue to be Pimo and husband went to look for it in his dad’s things. And literally my mother in law got rid of all elder things within literally days after his passing.. so we never got to see anything. We only knew it existed because of these activists videos.
I wouldn't even have cared about this book but the very fact that women can't even see it in printing department, now i want to read it!
The book explains how double standards exist within the congregation. Despite being PIMI for 30 years, I only recently discovered its existence, and the loopholes shocked me. The Shepherd book is like a second mini mosaic law.
I'm a diffed girl, who became a paramedic and was told by my mom, wife of an elder that I was throughing the gift of life back in gods face by being a paramedic.
I grew up JW and my wife grew up morman, we laugh about how similar the control groups behaved in the 80s 90s and 2000s. We are thankful we both seen it for what it is and found each other.
Wish I was able to watch live.
The vague rules and interpretation is left to each elder so the society can't be held accountable.
nice shirt Jake!
Love your videos brother and I don't know why I'm so interested in ExJW content as I was never part of this cult. The only thing I can point to is that my mother was studying with the JWs when I was younger after my father passed away and I do remember going to the kingdom hall a few times. I'm so thankful that she was snapped out of everything before the indoctrination really had a chance to take hold.
None of my family members are witnesses, but my grandmother is a pentecostal. And while there are clear differences between the two, I think that it is interesting that I can relate to some of the things you are saying based on my grandmother and her beliefs, especially regarding homosexuality. Also, I just recently found out that pentecostal churches also are considered to be cults, and now I don't understand why I never thought of them as cults before.
19:52 I think petty gambling would be like football pool or raffle for little league.
3:20 Ironically, the book you are discussing is a HOT LOAD OF SH!T!! too so it's appropriate :D Thanks for the levity.
Sorry for mistyping.I have nerve damage
So I can read God's word but not the GB words?🤔🤔
+1 solely for the TMS reference right off the top! #RepetitionForEmphasis #Gestures
There should be an organisation sorely dedicated to deal with people resigned from JW. I am a William Branham cult organisation.... The Message.
It's like LE once said, Call the police if an allegation of abuse happened is all would be needed for the chapter on CSA! Great stream Jake, I still haven't received my copy of the recent book, but once I get a copy I'm going to send it to my local police department. It seems that my city is a big hub for sex trafficking and some CSA. And it's always to be regular or a good constitution of the body!
Agree, the authorities should be called. Or if there is a clergy law in place, encourage the victims and their families to go to the authorities.
I don’t know why, but the CP response surprised me! Not sure about other countries, however here in Australia CP Is prohibited! Once again, the response should be: call the authorities!
Petty gambling - define what that is? Is it the local event raffle ticket to win a box of chocolates, or a once a year bet on the national horse race? or....??? As a member of the UK Methodist Church which was against gambling (as something that stumbled people, as with alcohol on church premises) but adjusted that to allow what might be 'petty gambling', at least they were clear about what the boundaries were (and about church events, or events on the church premises not about individual members). We can hold raffles as long as tickets only sold at the event (church fair etc) and no prize worth more than £50. Though I do remember as a child that no tombola stalls allowed unless a 'prize every time' though prize could be worth less than the cost to play, and as all donated anyway still works as a fundraiser.
How can it be copyrighted as a religious writing of an organized religion I don't see that as we should make a law where copyrights are avoid for religious organizations it doesn't sound right like you can't copyright the Bible it's and there's only certain I want some time to for a copy rights that are even enforceable
I had no idea about that lottery loophole. I feel like I need to apologize to my wife.
I am a Christian witch and I've been a solo practitioner for 27 years and 20 years makes you an elder a kind of when I started practicing because I studied for five years before I started practicing was kind of I felt like I shouldn't be considered so low as a initiate I've been studying for five years initiates the first rank when you're initiating yourself into witchcraft and I wasn't really in an organization so I was like thinking I should be like to a heart higher rank now I'm like yeah I just started but now I'm an elder anyway and well passed but I get people Who are witches that haven't even been alive as long as I've been practicing that are pretty well educated and witches that are practicing for two years and think they know everything and think they're above me and I've been practicing since before they were born a lot of them and as part of my study I study even other religions so I love learning about other cultures and religions I've never really seen an actual church for my form of witchcraft so I am looking into may be starting a church myself but it was not the things as many other ones were burned by Christianity it's that I was taught to learn for myself and make up my own mind as being Reyes Lutheran I still to appoint consider myself Lutheran as a witch as I like to follow some of the teachings of Martin Luther But I love learning about even the Colts and actually any religion I consider a cult look at the early way they talked about Christianity the cult of Christianity
This looks like Justin Roland talking to Jordan Klepper from the thumbnail
And on another note, the goddess with the unicorn hat Kim is absolutely gorgeous 😍
everyone go to their local kingdom hall and airdrop the PDF
What was the website with the searchable transcripts? Or a timestamp to where they were taking about it?
If you do that small business stream, I’ve become quite a well know artist in my city and illustrator
I didn’t know there’s an elders book😭😭😭😭💔
I have the freedom of mind book. It has helped me a lot
They have to be legal. They have to have a legal secretary. It’s boring to non elders but I’m sure it’s a good guide for elders. It stops elders making personal or bias decisions.
TL, DR I read a textbook for elders that I borrowed from an elder when I was a Bible student.
As I was studying with the witnesses, I asked the husband (who was the elder) of the sister conducting the study if they had any guidelines so that each elder would not feel left to himself what decisions to make, what to do. He told me about this book and showed me the cover, said it was a special manual for the elders only. I asked if it was secret and if JWs, apart from the elders, could not read it. He stated that it is not forbidden, but only the elders need it, so others do not read it. I asked if I could borrow this book and he lent it to me, but he said reading it is rather boring and useless for non-elders, that it is like reading secular laws for non-lawyers. I read it and found that it really is boring and useless for non-elders. I missed these nuances about CSA. It was in 2007 or 2008, so maybe it was previous edition of manual.
He lied to you
Tuning it tuning into you when we are at a meeting you know that that's what we do
The Elder book doesn't frighten me as much as Dwelling Toghether in Unity and how little money and basic job rights/benefits people working at Bethel actually get. It's really sad they have been suckered into it. As they likely prey on those not educated or experienced in industry I'm not shocked that they "don't know any better," but it's shameful how little they support their own people with basic features found even in a McDonald's position.
About the CSA, apart from the obvious moral issues which are a discussion of their own, I would say the age guidelines are legally speaking quite in line with most western societies. The problem is the vague terms, which they will stubbornly hold on to. Someone close to adulthood is super vague and could be interpreted way too broadly.
But say here in Finland the age of consent is 16, in Sweden it's 15. That is someone who is an older minor close to adulthood. And the law can't say anything to a 16 year old sleeping with a 30 year old or older. They can give consent and be a "willing participant", although in other ways they are still minors. Of course the law is stricter if the adult is in a position of authority. Also, the law doesn't normally punish two minors who are 2-3 years apart in age. That would sort of sound like what the elder manual was going for. CSA would be someone 18 or older having sex with someone under 15-16 years of age. However, because of the vague language, elders could punish someone 12-15 years old for their own abuse, and have. Of course "spiritual" people should go above and beyond to protect anyone under 18 and perhaps older from grooming. And everyday people as well usually find someone aged 16-17 dating a clearly older person problematic here as well, though the law doesn't protect them per se.
And when it comes to CP, the authorities have sometimes trouble pinning down the perpetrators. I think posession, making and distribution is an offence, but viewing per se is not. So the person needs to be caught with the material on his harddrive to convict. And the offence is lighter when compared to CSA. In that way, getting a verbal confession that a person has viewed the material and isn't in posession of it anymore, is a difficult position. But again, the obvious moral issues that that raises are still there for the elders too, and they should note that the person is not safe for children to be with, or have a position of authority. But legally speaking, that person might not be convicted either.
My mom has been a jw since 13 and she swears there is no such thing
If, as an XJW, had to choose a religion, it would be unitarian universalist, or theosophy
I sometimes think that fading in the early 90’s was easier then now because of the internet.
I honestly don’t think the internet has that much to do with it. In fact, zoom meetings have made it easier for some PIMOs to disassociate
I think fading was probably easier without social media. You might have been harder to track down and contact. However, finding contrary information, logical counter arguments and support networks for people leaving their religion was more difficult.
For the algorithm
You HAVE to watch season 3 episodes 1+2 of the mockumentary series Documentary Now! It's called "Batshit Valley" and it's effing hilarious. It's about a cult and Owen Wilson is the leader lolol
Wally!