I will no longer say I'm inactive whenever I speak to another JW. It means nothing to me or anyone that's important to me. Only to those in the Org. Thanks Gary. 👍🏾👍🏾
Elders are really "company men" who act as human resource agents for the Watchtower organization. Remember, human resource agents act only in the best interests of the company. Elders search out any who are not loyal to the company, and those who are not actively supporting the policies and mission; as well as, individuals who are not reaching established goals within the corporation. All of these individuals threaten the profitability and outward reputation of of the company, and may affect others in the organization. When individuals inside of the organization/corporation have learned of hypocritical actions, deceitful policies, or lies regarding the actions of representatives of corporation, departments or heads of the corporation (Governing Body) and begin exposing these... Elders (human resource agents of the Watchtower ) are assigned to eliminate or lessen the effects of "whistle blowers" by labeling them "apostates". Once they identify an individual as a "whistle blower" they follow well established company rules and actively pursue any threat that may expose secretive practices, hypocrisy, or harmful or illegal actions that may impact company's profitability. Elders follow corporation guidelines set forth in the exclusive manual for elders, entitled: "Shepherd the Flock of God" published by the WTBTS. 1. To become informed as to the level of knowledge and information a potential whistle blower possesses. 2. Have a formal meeting (Judicial Committee hearing) with them to ascertain the level of dissent or waning support for the organization and threat they pose to the corporation. 3. Formally put the whistle blower on notice their actions constitute disloyalty to the corporation and they will be "fired" from the company losing all benefits and any ties to other members of the corporation. 4. During a congregation meeting ( regularly scheduled corporation workshop) announce the "firing" of those who have failed to follow company rules.
Thank you for that video, Justin, another pebble in the GB's shoes ! It is obvious that the Watchtower has been organized as a corporated commercial entity, and that their members must follow-up, to sell a certain kind of product. I think that Christians shouldn't take a corporated commercial form as a model for a christian organization. This is not just a personnal point of view, but I'm sure that it appears so, in the Holy Scriptures, in the Gospels and the letters, written by the apostles.
1) What "Crisis of Conscience" did for me: It helped me see that Watchtowerland was not inspired of a true god, but more likely it was satanic. I was df'd in absentia. When I learned I was df'd there was no bolt of lightning. Rather, I felt a huge wave of peace/grace and I knew I'd be okay. I never tried to go back. I moved several provinces away and started over. I love my life. I've been out since 2000. 2) I love how @Gary helped the alcoholic man with a "bible study". 😂I can see the value in acting like a caring human with a soul.💖
Interestingly, the man with the alcohol problem, who has been on the wagon ever since the mid-80s, says that he wasn't actually an alcoholic. He did go to AA meetings of his own volition. Either way, I admire his strength and courage.
They made out I was disfellowshipped.I left because of them knowingly lying in God and Jesus' name...and the children... I tell t that and several scriptures to a fill in CO and about 12 elders and 2 of their wives...and yet that is what was said...Sydney... Typical Acts 1:6-8 shows whole organisation started with lies. Revelation 18:4
The Sydney Northern beaches congregations is full of alcoholics..Some are millionares ( I'm on disability pension)...They get away with adultery...threesomes( elders and their wives too...paedophilia... Many, many know...Nothing done..Just congregation changes( around and around).... Father and Jesus see and know..but people suicide, end up homeless etc... WT is off..really sick. The well of David for cleansing the abhorrent thing is starting but not done...Starts at the top...
My daughter has a RUclips channel: "Prodigal Ali". She has the audio of her "non-judicial " mtg. With 4! Elders. UNREAL. They wouldn't even respond to her request to begin with prayer! But they went forward with their decision to announce her as " No longer 1 of jehovah's witnesses." Because she got Rebaptized by a non jehovah's witness. I am also shunned because I do not shun her. I was a very active witness for 61 years, of which 20 were in the pioneer work.
I was a 4th Generation JW, born and raised in it, 46 years in the cult. I successfully FADED 10 years ago, on my own terms, not DF'd, not disassociated. For the last 28 years being a JW, it was a nightmare. I asked too many questions and knew too much. I never consented to the authority of elders giving nonsense opinionated advice. I made them try to explain what they are forcing me to do, and they couldnt, so I pissed them off all the time. I would not reach out for anything, I was comfortable in my own skin, being "just a publisher", which pissed them off, because when a man is not reaching out in the Kingdom Hall, they cannot use anything against you. They cannot "extort you", pressuring you to do something, or else they would either NOT promote you or they would remove privileges from you, for you doing or not doing something they demanded. In other words, they had nothing to control me with, either by demoting me or by not promoting me. So they had no power over me. Besides that, most of the elders were hypocrites. They did things not right, were bullies or I had dirt on them. I was threatened all the time to SHUT UP, or I would be disfellowshipped. That didnt work for them either. The elders that were basically nice, were spineless and cowards to the bully elders, that controlled everything. So they were useless in getting rid of the problems. But I voiced the problems and confronted the Bully elders, which stirred the pot. I did not let them push me around. I wrote letters to the elder body about the problem elders, then passed these letters out to the good elders pertaining to the bad elders right before the meeting. I let them fight it out. The bullies always prevailed. I told the Circuit Overseer about the problems existing with the elder body, and he sided with the bullies. Then I wrote a letter addressed to both the elder body and to the circuit overseer in the same letter. I exposed the bully elder to the CO and then exposed the CO for not handling the bad elder, to the elder body in this letter. I handed out that letter to the good elders before a Sunday meeting and then handed the letter to the Circuit Overseer visiting the other Congregation, a week before he visited our Congregation. So when the CO visited us a week later, his last visit before changing circuits, he was mad at me for the letter. In fact, his last talk given on Sunday was directed right at me. I sat towards the front of the hall while he gave his talk, and I death glared him his entire talk for what he was saying. After a few minutes of looking over at me and seeing the looks I gave him, he stopped looking over at me for the remainder of his talk. He knew I was pissed at him and he never tried to do anything to me through the Elders after his last visit. I didnt take crap from anyone, but exposed all of them more. They tried getting rid of me a few times, one for Apostasy, but they never succeeded. I told them I have their Flock Book and know how to use it. I told one elder if any of them goes after me, I would sue them., he said good luck with that, no one has won against them, I told him "until now", and luck has nothing to do with me winning and he never said a word again to me about it. They were clueless as how to deal with me. After that, I left all of them for ever. I just walked out after one meeting and never went back, that was 10 years ago. After leaving, I said I would NEVER be a victim to anyone or anything ever again. I studied law and how to fight using contract and commerce law that Lawyers will not use. I have been successful with every circumstance I have been in since. NEVER SUBMIT TO THESE A$$HOLE BULLIES. They are as dumb as a fence, dont know the difference between Biblical Law or regular law, have no clue as to what the Bible says and think they are spiritual shepherds, when in fact they are Corporate agents of the WATCHTOWER Corporation. Their first and foremost priority is to protect the WATCHTOWER Corporation before anything else, through their Corporate Bi-Laws, which is everything in their publications, which are produced by the corporate entity, not a religion, making it a corporate bi-law, not a Biblical standard.
Good on you for standing up to these organizational pharisees. I have a very similar story to yours apart from fading around 30 years of age after being constantly soft shunned. I woke up to the ridiculous politics amongst the elders after one used me to help his 28 year old suicidal narcissistic basement dwelling, socially awkward son come out of his shell and learn to talk to females at the KH then quickly discarded me because i refused to report on my field service. They told the Circuit overseer that the reason his son was hanging out with me was to encourage me spiritually yet they were doing the exact opposite. Because of this spiritual "encouragement" and the help of his bully elder father he was promoted to be a ministerial servant, everyone in the KH was shocked.
You are correct. WT is a corporation created to intake cash and real estate. It has always been a money making scheme. It's all about the money $$$$. Always has been, always will be. Their origins are Masonic and Luciferian. Nothing good comes out of Lucifer/Satan.
I always used the scriptures..one elder told me he had never read Ezekiel..Anyway, as a fe.ale , I was disliked.They were surfers and football ( Australian) freaks..so big boys..but no knowledge...no Shepherd call, picked on ones on psych meds....They were babies and many of their wives ran things from the closet. I had respect for one...Then after an op..he told me( when I phoned to see how he was)...He told me he had a high sex drive and was having problems having to wait a certain time.I started to silently pray.Then he went"Ahh. That's better" That's sick. Later he told me he had told his wife not to speak with me...Because I knew what was going on...Greasy bunch and I've told them by sciptures..eg Jeremiah 23 and Ezekiel 34.. Too many had no fear of God or Yeshua/Jesus.... Babies..We belong toGod and Jesus..not a bunch of power freaks
As an ex-JW elder myself, I agree with this guy's comment on the case at @ 1: 15: 00 where a member had taken the initiative to confess their sin to the elders. This in itself is cause for NOT DISFELLOWSHIPPING; as it lends credence to their heart's attitude about what they did, and their repentant state of mind. Shouldn't matter if was done more than once or not; the fact that they trusted the elders to judge them righteously and that they felt the need to confess to them; shows that they're sorry for what they did. Jesus Christ would have forgiven them, advised them to not do anything that could lead to that sin again, and go on serving Jehovah! It should be private reproof only, and not publicized to the congregation!! But he's right, there are elders who are on a power trip and wield their authority exactly as the Apostle Peter said NOT TO: " Do not be lording it over them, (the flock), 1 Peter 5: 3)
I had similar experiences with a few bully elders and their cowardly followers. I ended up walking out at the end of a meeting and never returning. No one checked up on me either. That was in 2016. So I was aloud to fade. When I run into elders at the store or in the neighborhood, they look very uncomfortable and would either ignore or avoid me. This doesn't bother me. I see it as a good thing.
I'm just at the halfway point of this interview but I have to say that Gary is the type of Genuine honest communicator that was rare in my experience with serving in any congregation. I have always said that the turning point for me was being appointed as an MS along with a visit to the Canadian Bethel back in the 90s which truly woke me up and served as a peek behind the curtain. I really look forward to reading his book and appreciate your channel Justin for the efforts you put into your interviews.
Wow! 😢 This was difficult to watch as I am going through a very similar situation. Haven’t seen nor heard from my oldest child (my son) and my first grandson in over 9 yrs. The hurt, pain and feelings of displacement have been at times overwhelming. But my heart and prayers goes out to Tony & his wife. ❤🙏🏽
@@exjwdiaries who is the living God? Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter answered [To Jesus]: “You are the Christ, the SON.. of THE LIVING GOD.” Jeremiah 10:10 But Jehovah is truly God. HE IS... - THE LIVING GOD - and the eternal King. Because of his indignation the earth will quake, And no nations will endure his denunciation. John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
from a non-JW great interview. I wish my mum's friend would wake up. She made sure her daughter joined at a young age - the JW elder husband of a lowly job sounded like the bully. Completely ruined my mum's friend's daughter's life, who has continued depression (even after divorcing the her bully horrid husband. My mum is not a JW, but her best friend is JW, which I thought was unusual for a JW to have a worldly best friend, to the point of when she needed money, she went to my mum and stepfather rather than her JW friends.
Wow, Thank you both. Being of the small brain set I 'd just like to say this has helped me more than I could have imagined. My son had always wanted to serve in a 'greater' way but Circuit over seers nor District could make their point when telling the elders to give him more responsibilities. He and his wife decided it would be best to separate but of course that was considered apostate reasoning and she pressed for a charge of adultery in the end so she could stand with head high, he eventually did something about that so, as he said to me (already out for years) well I am now guilty, so I paid it forward. He died in 2015 in a motorbike accident, and we were so surprised at how many people mourned his death. He was like Gary, he liked people and he listened and that validation of worth made him very popular. I still miss him even though there were years where he towed the shunning policy; we made up for it talking the weekends away, also shedding tears and he saw the need to get professional help for spiritual abuse. His illnesses went away, he gained self esteem and many, many wonderful friends. So Gary, I and probably many mothers can now understand the pressures of jealousy, elder judgement, and desire to control/bully others, plays a big part of getting the role in leadership; it doesn't matter that you are NOT being Christ like. We knew it, but I wish he could have heard this interview. He would be 63 this year.
He hit the nail on the head when he said that the elders mostly have low level jobs and probably alot of grunt work then they get a lil power with this community and it blows up there ego
Yes and that’s exactly why they don’t want their members to go to college or get any status in the world because then they will look to the GB for status and validation. The org is designed like that from the head down.
Its amazing to listen to people who were soooooo dedicated to the JW'S & how they slowly over the years start seeing things that don't make sense, but it still takes more years to still wake up, its Awesome to listen to these stories 😮😊 especially when you experienced the same things 😅AND! It's universal
Great interview!! "Seems like the good guys eventually leave!" 🥰 Love your style and appreciate the time stamps and yes this is so juicy I will be watching it more than once. 😄 Thank you!! 🥰
Excellent interview... Riveting and refreshing... Have listened in its entirety, from beginning to end... It is very much of my time.. Lots of what Gary has gone through i have mirrored in my own life, so it all made perfect sense.. Thank you both for making this available... Outstanding...
Since i recently retired ,im pissed that they told people they were faithless for preparing for retirement ...They claimed clearly that ,You Will Never Retire in this System brothers ...fortunately i got out early enough to get myself set 🎉🎉🎉🎉
Many thanks to you both for your informative, balanced video. Interviews like this, and others, really do help in the validation and deprogramming process 💪
Thank Gary, great job. You're correct, its the loving, kind elders that will make their way out...not your exact words :), My husband is out with me and he was the elder everyone came to because he truly saw them and their hearts, It was the CSA issue that made him leave the body. "The good guys DO leave" ❤
Wow OMG, excellent job young man, keep going with the comparisons, please, this is great, wonderful questions, to . We hope all other discussions will be formated like this one ,.we thank you
I just realized that I only know of ONE Elder who ever apologized for getting something wrong. And I have known some very loving "shepherds"!! But only one apology that I can think of! And that was to another Sister, years after she had begged for help with her "stepping out" husband. The Elder apparently told her "We should have listened and taken your concerns more seriously." This was after the husband was finally caught cheating, after 10 years of abandoning my friend. Disfellowshipping of the man happened, then divorce, and of course he married the young woman and was welcomed back by his Narcissistic parents. Even so, the sincere apology meant a lot to my friend.
Yeah it’s way too rare to hear an apology. The organization definitely puts them in a position where it’s easy for egos to inflate. Down to earth elders are definitely out there but far too rare.
To me, people in positions of responsibility have a SPECIAL reason to apologize when they have erred. It's important that the person hearing the apology understand that it was not their fault, and that they are not a bad person. But since elders confuse contrition and respect, they think it's important to NOT apologize, lest they lose the respect of the cong. Very bad for everyone.
Omg I bought a sports car and was told the same thing. Even recently I bought i knew car and was asked why did a buy a new car if nothing was wrong with my old car….and that my car should be an “end of the system car” meaning: don’t buy another one …smh
I live in south central Missouri, almost.1200 miles from this man and he`s describing my congregation verbatim. Only instead of calling them "bully's", I`m more comfortable with the term, "rule Nazi"!
Gary you are a great person. You may have been at bethel with my older brother. Anyway amazing story. I am trying to keep some sort of faith in god. I hope that’s what you and your wife are doing also
I understand the not wanting to let our creator. But by the same token, you did the right thing. I had to get out too. You’re a very good man. Thank you so much for sharing your story 😊
It’s VERY interesting hearing from people that were at Bethel because we think of Bethelites as picturesque JWs. (I visited Bethel 3 times in my childhood during congregation NY trips). I used to think back in regret on the fact I married an unbeliever that turned out to be a malignant narcissist and said if I’d stayed on the right path I probably would’ve enjoyed going to Bethel. I’m realizing from a LOT of psychology study that being in that high control group may actually be what led me to/allowed me to be deceived into a narcissist relationship and miss the red flags. So to hear Bethelites saying they had rough experiences is extremely eye opening.
Gary Alt is a down-to-earth man. At 1:20 he talks about the pride and lack of ability most elders displayed. I know this to be true because I once asked my father many years ago if he had ever sat on a judicial committee where he questioned if they made. The right decision. He quickly said no. I was frankly disappointed in him. I guess I should add that I am a female and he was a circuit overseer for a couple of years.
Funny thing about 1975 is that in the field service, many brothers would still speculate that the reason they got it wrong is because they didn't know how old Adam was before Eve was created. Then they would say that the correct calculation would be to add Adam's age to the equation. Then some would suggest 30 years old from the thin, then 2005 came and 2025 is now around the corner!
Words to live by you made a great point and I’m adding to it ….….I have a hundred problems but JWs seeing me and not speaking isn’t one of them…..I’m free from the mind control tactics and cult mentality❤❤
I went through almost exactly the same as you did . (without the bethel part ) Took awhile to realize Jehovah had nothing to do with the org . But much happier now that I do . 4th Gen also in till we left .
I went through 2 marriages, and both times Elders were involved planning my demise with my wife behind my back. The 1st time we had a bad alcoholic Elder, who would buy Burbon by the half gallon but cases of half gallons, providing to a minor in the Congregation and I reported it because I had to send this young servant home at 7am from work because he was to drunk to climb a ladder. So I became the target! They pulled a surprise Judicial without informing me, I was just called to the Hall and walked into a Judicial "surprise" and I was informed I was being disfellowship fir apostasy. Of course I defended myself by demanding a reason "Apostasy" for trying to overthrow the Elder arrangement! Just fantastic made up stuff! Their key witness as I demanded Witnesses and they only had 1, so they called the witness in, and it was my very sick wife of over 20 years. She had a seriously enlarged left ventricle and was terminal, and on heavy medications. 😳 long story short I caught all the Elders in a fabricated lie, one would say one thing the next Elder would contradict the others. They decided because of their obvious slander it was just a big misunderstanding. My terminal wife had just destroyed any trust we could ever have. She died in 2012. I remarried but to a Kenyan woman who was Catholic, and became inactive for about 2 years. Returned to the Congregation but she right away was contacted by a heavy Elder and was working with him to again execute me. Problem was I really did love this woman. And again things went south but in a bad way. I knew something was off, but I thought it could be the Catholics. I had to have a hip replacement, and as a transit driver, I had excellent coverage. So I went into the hospital in January 2016. My wife showed up late just as they were putting me under. When I came to in recovery, no wife to be seen! I was released the next morning, no one to pick me up. I had my Jeep Wrangler in the parking lot, no choice I had to drive myself home in serious pain. Elders refused to help. And the next time I seen my wife she was divorcing me. I was using a walker to cook and do laundry. And I was just laying in bed waiting to heal up so I could return to work. And I thought, what the he'll why am I paying for this big house, so I just called Social Security and put in for my retirement as I turned 62 already. Informed the Transit Company. Later I moved to another Congregation and found out the Elders had influenced my Kenyan wife to divorce me. They had been meeting with her for a year before I had surgery. Things they said to me; they had her get my phone records, my bank records every personal record they could get their dirty fingers on! But I had kept only some past bad financial records that I had paid off. My real financial records were hidden with my Mom. I had over $40,000 just in a 457plan and some thousands in cash hidden. But these Elder's thought I was broke financially! So this Elder "heavy" told me he could not wait to drive by my homeless tent on the way to meetings! Because they though they had that much power over me, and that Ivwas broke! So I just moved out, met a pioneer Sister in Africa, flew To Africa, met her in person, so she was precious! Younger than my eldest Son by a year, and I married her in late 2017! That was my answer to them they had no control over me, it was just made up in their own dirty filthy 🧠 brains! We are married almost 6 years now and loving it. We have a small farm, we are building our home, and we are shunned now! I learned there are 6 or 7 slanderous letters against me. My wife perfect service for Jehovah for over 38 years, never did one thing wrong ever! Disfellowshipped being told her faithful service to Jehovah does not matter to them! We attend meetings without their knowledge on podcasts but spit out the lies, and stick to what is written. If Jehovah wants to back slanderers so be it. It is now in Jehovah's realm of justice! So be it! Amen 🙏
I praise YAH my G-d who had to force me out to discover my Jewish identity and return to Him and His Torah as a Jew. Today, He made become his associate Messianic Rabbi in the Body of Messiah. No wonder I didn't become a Bethelite nor miniserial servant in Angola, NY. Too much politics and nepotism in Jehovah's Witnesses. Rabbi Derrick Whitt Syracuse NY
Good interview. One point of clarification. The Organization runs training programs that train elders. Over the decades thousands of elders have been created at Bethel and were groomed by the Bethel mentality then go out into the congregations. The college issue was printed in the WT magazine, and in parts on district conventions. Many of these issues were covered at conventions. Gary says the elders are responsible? How is it the organization is not responsible? There are bodies of elders that go out in the left field but make no mistake. The big picture shows that the organization has pushed these rules way before Gary served.
This is so true to many rules and so call congregation bullies not elders I was told you have to button up your suit jacket to get on the platform or else you want be allowed
The God of the WT is a corporate lawyer Very cold and legal ,and the appointed men, need to follow the legalistic way that is detected by the secret book. Elders that are consumed by their authoritarian disposition will go along with that. Fortunately are some Elders that do recognize that the Bible, and Jesus teaching do point to a different approach, and they do try to implement it. But the structure of the beast will not allow those honest and sincere men to succeed
Thank you for sharing the experience in regards to the elder that was a bully. There is one that i know of who is hard everyone else but soft on his family and to make matters worse he has an offender in his family that goes to the same hall and tries to promote that family memeber instead of reporting him.
Good interview but the organization definitely discouraged college in there publications. True, they never said you can’t go but they alluded to the dangers …..when I went to college in the 80’s I was looked down upon and had privileges taken away . So in a sense he’s right that it wasn’t a written rule but the elders could read between the lines !
Gary, I grew up in that area and attended one of the halls. I was a child then but I remember you and I know what you mean by the culture up there. Glad you make it out!
I have to also clarify the DF subject. Gary was not around until the 80's so he is unaware that even people not baptized were treated like DF'd people throughout the 60s & 70s. Total cut-off. No contact. Then sometime in the 80's they ran a series of articles to differentiate weakness vs wickedness. For a while that softened some but it didn't last long.
I came in 1974. I was an elder when those changes happened in the 80s. You are correct that "approved associates" who strayed were up until then treated as DFed. (The expression "approved associate" also changed over the years.) I remember visiting someone who had been an approved associated (later called "unbaptized publisher") that was treated as DFed, explaining to her the "good news" that she can now breathe easy.
I don’t remember you Gary. I went to the Bayside congregation, but knew a lot of witnesses throughout Long Island. Out of NY now, living in the Southwest.
@@garyalt1475 - No, I don’t recall that name. I left in 1970 and moved to Hawaii, so I may have missed them. I believe a “sister” named Sue Smith was in your congregation and was dating my friend Fabian Cavalluzzo. I pioneered in Bayside for years, where prior to building their own hall, we met at the KH in Flushing. I eventually left “the truth” in 1975, and never got past ministerial servant status.
@@garyalt1475 - I grew up in Whitestone, right by the Throgs Neck Bridge. But, I’ve been to Old Westbury Gardens on occasion. Hung out at Jones Beach all the time. I miss the that whole Long Island atmosphere, but I’m sure like NYC, it’s changed for the worse. It was crazy back then how the JW kids used to marry so young, in their teens. They didn’t really know each other, but we’re afraid of getting caught crossing the forbidden line! And I “almost” went to Bethel, but decided against it, as I didn’t want to live an institutionalized life with a bunch of “brothers”. I look forward to reading your book!
I knew a really kind elder who was forced to step down when he let his disfellowshipped son live with him while he was trying to get reinstated. I never understood why.
This interview confirm to me that what is happening in the Spanish congregations is wrong. Elders who work mainly in labor jobs without almost any school education become superman with a super ego because they are in charge of 100 people. They don't have the skills to manage that task properly but they think they are the kings of the jungle. They said that the elders are going to be princes in the new world, also they believe that the lectern is an aphrodisiac and they think that all the sisters see them handsome. There are a lot of sexual harassment in the Spanish congregation from the elders and married men. Even myself stop attending meetings because of that, I said something about it and they told me that I took those advances in the wrong way like some others sisters. I ask them, why we the women are wrong and the men said the true?
You very lucky in a year and a half being in the truth 47 years my son studied 10 years and was said he can not babtize because he did not have a Christen man in the house although my brothers was ministerial servants and elders 10 years later my daughter wanted to get married asked the JW again they said no why cant my brothers marry her though they did not say that when after 10 years of study my son had to keep adking for studies as elders just left he study he had to ask for 10 years even a sister and ended up saying no all the time althouggh I was a babtized sister had no support to help my family my family was treated cold with no feeling at all and would love to share my experience of 47 years basically ruined my life !!!!!!!!
I remember being wrongfully disf only to realize there is no holy spirit. Shit still bothers me today, my question is now if anyone can answer, what really is the truth? Is God really real? Please someone .... :(
Watch the video “What is the real truth”. There are no beliefs pushed in that video but it will show no one has the truth. We truly don’t know what we don’t know. As for God different people will tell you differently. I definitely believe in something but not religion. You can email me if you want to know more.
Leo Greenlees was in my cong. Del Mar CA after his dismissal. He stayed at a very wealthy sisters mansion in Rancho Sante Fe for a short time until she found out why he got the boot. Then she gave him the boot also. He landed in New Orleans I heard. The sister was married to Briggs Cunningham. Google search that name when you have time. He was never a witness.
As a Born in JW I felt the WT Organization had so much Rules No rhyme or reason Gary explain it was more Political instead of a Loving arrangement too much Dissension among the Elders…
Its not brain size that matters but the number if neural connections and a womans brain on average has more connections between left and right hemispheres.
This observation about elders being unanimous is true. You can have a good body of elders, but one elder to quote another elder, can be" the loudest voice on the body" , can cause such much division and disunity. One elder went so far as to divide the congregation between his big family and the actual congregation. He as an elder is very critical of everything all the eligible appointable brothers, while giving passes to his family. How bad? His son is unregistered with a past sa issue that prevents him from being alone with children, and they are both in the same hall together. Nepotism at its finest but also a conflict of interest from a spiritual and possibly legal. But God rights things in his own due time.
@@forgetmenot47 Unfortunately, I can not. There is no automatic translation in my language. Creator did not enable. try it yourself! I don't know English well enough to translate the content myself.
@@szepty_z_sekty tylko przerzucilam Twoją wiadomość w angielski żeby była dobrze zrozumiana... I masz rację. Ale - w "ludzkim" czasie przetłumaczenie tego zajmuje trochę. Czy możesz wpisać w wyszukiwarkę coś w rodzaju "tłumaczenie wideo" , "AI tłumaczenie wideo", "mistrz tłumaczenia wideo" i zobaczyć co wyjdzie? Możesz też zwolnic to wideo i zapoznać się z podpisami w angielskim i je wrzucić w tłumacza. Odpowiedziałaś w angielskim - nie ma mowy żebyś nie mogła tego zrobić dla siebie - ale trochę osiwiejesz z wysiłku i potrzebnej cierpliwosci. Trzymaj się ciepło.
@@forgetmenot47 nie mam tyle czasu, a przecież wiem, że autor może je włączyć.. ale dziękuję za chęci 😁 Co ciekawe Google tłumaczy komentarze, więc głównie subskrybuję dla komentarzy.
@@szepty_z_sekty ta druga opcja była troszke dla zartu ... Ta pierwsza wyszukania automatycznego tlumaczenia czyjegos widea - jak najbardziej do zrobienia z warunkiem - niewiem co jest dostepne w Polsce. Gosc naprawde mowi rzeczy z sensem i z punktu widzenia ktorego nie znalazlam u nas, dlatego jestem tu Tobie takim samozwanczym adwokatem posluchania wynikow jego pracy w calosci. Google audio z dwoch urzadzen tez działa, bo teraz sprawdziłam. Pa!
When JWs shun a parent they also don't include the children of this parent in any outside activities, nor let their children associate with the children of a parent being shunned. This is so damaging to the children... especially if the one being shunned still attends meetings. This has to happen to you in order to truly appreciate how widespread damaging shunning is.
have you ever thought about how to JWs target immigrants as well? my mom came to america with no family and no help and by the time i came around, she was already rubbing shoulders with the witnesses saying that, “they were the few people who showed her kindness”. it’s crazy how when i travelled back home to sierra leone to “serve where the need is greater”, it was the same method but flipped on its head. instead of preying on immigrants, it’s was poor people in a third world country and somehow i really do think that’s evermoreso insidious… idk it’s an interesting think piece (that i would love to be apart of)
I had a elder point his finger in my face to provoke me so they could call the police on me but I saw what was going on and kept my cool but I was blamed for getting the elders upset what's wrong with that picture
They say this will be the signs of the end being heartless threw them then they say this is the signs of the end according to me untill the end JESUS showed love they say this is Satan doing all their cold heartness!!
A man's enemy will be of his own household of faith That was Jesus experience He was not put to death by pagans but by JWs. It's just having another fulfilment in modern times. Jesus was put to death as a blasphemer but he was in full fellowship with Jehovah. Learn obedience to Jehovah not to any house or organization by what you suffer as Jesus did
I know several people who left. They didn’t want to be told they couldn’t get drunk have premarital sex or live by Bible standards. Religion not for everyone. I knew a kid once who while playing basketball would get upset if he didn’t get the ball passed enough to him and he wasn’t that good. So he just took his ball and left. I never seen a RUclips post about that. More people just need to take their ball and leave. No need for a video complaining or explaining. lol
@@robertstambulovski Robert, Watchtower's men are imperfect as you say. But do they apologize when they wrong someone in judicial action? No, they don't! Watchtower keeps Christians from partaking of the bread and the wine. Satan doesn't want Christians to partake of the bread and the wine. Maybe you are here on this website because Jehovah and Jesus want you to have the opportunity to "wake up" to Watchtower's wickedness.
![Jack Harlow - Hello Miss Johnson [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q86_nlRoIGw/mqdefault.jpg)
I will no longer say I'm inactive whenever I speak to another JW. It means nothing to me or anyone that's important to me. Only to those in the Org. Thanks Gary. 👍🏾👍🏾
Another great interview! Thank you for sharing it with us. I am part of the abused flock of this abusive, dangerous and bloody cult.😢😢
Well done Justin, and also to the x-elder, another great video.
Thank you!!
Elders are really "company men" who act as human resource agents for the Watchtower organization.
Remember, human resource agents act only in the best interests of the company.
Elders search out any who are not loyal to the company, and those who are not actively supporting the policies and mission; as well as, individuals who are not reaching established goals within the corporation.
All of these individuals threaten the profitability and outward reputation of of the company, and may affect others in the organization.
When individuals inside of the organization/corporation have learned of hypocritical actions, deceitful policies, or lies regarding the actions of representatives of corporation, departments or heads of the corporation (Governing Body) and begin exposing these...
Elders (human resource agents of the Watchtower ) are assigned to eliminate or lessen the effects of "whistle blowers" by labeling them "apostates".
Once they identify an individual as a "whistle blower" they follow well established company rules and actively pursue any threat that may expose secretive practices, hypocrisy, or harmful or illegal actions that may impact company's profitability.
Elders follow corporation guidelines set forth in the exclusive manual for elders, entitled: "Shepherd the Flock of God" published by the WTBTS.
1. To become informed as to the level of knowledge and information a potential whistle blower possesses.
2. Have a formal meeting (Judicial Committee hearing) with them to ascertain the level of dissent or waning support for the organization and threat they pose to the corporation.
3. Formally put the whistle blower on notice their actions constitute disloyalty to the corporation and they will be "fired" from the company losing all benefits and any ties to other members of the corporation.
4. During a congregation meeting ( regularly scheduled corporation workshop) announce the "firing" of those who have failed to follow company rules.
Amazing comment!!
🎯 PRECISELY ‼️
😉👌 💯% Correct !!
Thank you for that video, Justin, another pebble in the GB's shoes ! It is obvious that the Watchtower has been organized as a corporated commercial entity, and that their members must follow-up, to sell a certain kind of product. I think that Christians shouldn't take a corporated commercial form as a model for a christian organization. This is not just a personnal point of view, but I'm sure that it appears so, in the Holy Scriptures, in the Gospels and the letters, written by the apostles.
Darling southern bawse lady, this is outstanding! Thank you for posting, and I wholeheartedly agree!
And I won’t be the only one!🩵🌸🙏🏼
Well said!
1) What "Crisis of Conscience" did for me: It helped me see that Watchtowerland was not inspired of a true god, but more likely it was satanic. I was df'd in absentia. When I learned I was df'd there was no bolt of lightning. Rather, I felt a huge wave of peace/grace and I knew I'd be okay. I never tried to go back. I moved several provinces away and started over. I love my life. I've been out since 2000.
2) I love how @Gary helped the alcoholic man with a "bible study". 😂I can see the value in acting like a caring human with a soul.💖
Interestingly, the man with the alcohol problem, who has been on the wagon ever since the mid-80s, says that he wasn't actually an alcoholic. He did go to AA meetings of his own volition. Either way, I admire his strength and courage.
They made out I was disfellowshipped.I left because of them knowingly lying in God and Jesus' name...and the children...
I tell t that and several scriptures to a fill in CO and about 12 elders and 2 of their wives...and yet that is what was said...Sydney...
Typical
Acts 1:6-8 shows whole organisation started with lies.
Revelation 18:4
The Sydney Northern beaches congregations is full of alcoholics..Some are millionares ( I'm on disability pension)...They get away with adultery...threesomes( elders and their wives too...paedophilia...
Many, many know...Nothing done..Just congregation changes( around and around)....
Father and Jesus see and know..but people suicide, end up homeless etc...
WT is off..really sick.
The well of David for cleansing the abhorrent thing is starting but not done...Starts at the top...
@@kerrydwyer1879 Yes, 2ion's Watchtower tell it all: 2ionism.
My daughter has a RUclips channel: "Prodigal Ali". She has the audio of her "non-judicial " mtg. With 4! Elders. UNREAL. They wouldn't even respond to her request to begin with prayer! But they went forward with their decision to announce her as " No longer 1 of jehovah's witnesses."
Because she got Rebaptized by a non jehovah's witness.
I am also shunned because I do not shun her. I was a very active witness for 61 years, of which 20 were in the pioneer work.
These people do nothing but cause division in families friends and community . Disgusting and so self righteous hypercritical pos cult.
Thanks for sharing! I love when people record their judicial committees. Really shows how messed up the process is.
Congratulations on escaping the mind control ! It’s never to late
By the way, my parents sold their bakery and went special pioneering. They were also in the circuit work.
Wow, God, the real one, saved both of you.
I was a 4th Generation JW, born and raised in it, 46 years in the cult. I successfully FADED 10 years ago, on my own terms, not DF'd, not disassociated.
For the last 28 years being a JW, it was a nightmare. I asked too many questions and knew too much. I never consented to the authority of elders giving nonsense opinionated advice. I made them try to explain what they are forcing me to do, and they couldnt, so I pissed them off all the time. I would not reach out for anything, I was comfortable in my own skin, being "just a publisher", which pissed them off, because when a man is not reaching out in the Kingdom Hall, they cannot use anything against you. They cannot "extort you", pressuring you to do something, or else they would either NOT promote you or they would remove privileges from you, for you doing or not doing something they demanded.
In other words, they had nothing to control me with, either by demoting me or by not promoting me. So they had no power over me. Besides that, most of the elders were hypocrites. They did things not right, were bullies or I had dirt on them. I was threatened all the time to SHUT UP, or I would be disfellowshipped. That didnt work for them either.
The elders that were basically nice, were spineless and cowards to the bully elders, that controlled everything. So they were useless in getting rid of the problems. But I voiced the problems and confronted the Bully elders, which stirred the pot. I did not let them push me around. I wrote letters to the elder body about the problem elders, then passed these letters out to the good elders pertaining to the bad elders right before the meeting. I let them fight it out. The bullies always prevailed.
I told the Circuit Overseer about the problems existing with the elder body, and he sided with the bullies. Then I wrote a letter addressed to both the elder body and to the circuit overseer in the same letter. I exposed the bully elder to the CO and then exposed the CO for not handling the bad elder, to the elder body in this letter. I handed out that letter to the good elders before a Sunday meeting and then handed the letter to the Circuit Overseer visiting the other Congregation, a week before he visited our Congregation.
So when the CO visited us a week later, his last visit before changing circuits, he was mad at me for the letter. In fact, his last talk given on Sunday was directed right at me. I sat towards the front of the hall while he gave his talk, and I death glared him his entire talk for what he was saying. After a few minutes of looking over at me and seeing the looks I gave him, he stopped looking over at me for the remainder of his talk. He knew I was pissed at him and he never tried to do anything to me through the Elders after his last visit. I didnt take crap from anyone, but exposed all of them more. They tried getting rid of me a few times, one for Apostasy, but they never succeeded. I told them I have their Flock Book and know how to use it. I told one elder if any of them goes after me, I would sue them., he said good luck with that, no one has won against them, I told him "until now", and luck has nothing to do with me winning and he never said a word again to me about it. They were clueless as how to deal with me. After that, I left all of them for ever. I just walked out after one meeting and never went back, that was 10 years ago.
After leaving, I said I would NEVER be a victim to anyone or anything ever again. I studied law and how to fight using contract and commerce law that Lawyers will not use. I have been successful with every circumstance I have been in since. NEVER SUBMIT TO THESE A$$HOLE BULLIES. They are as dumb as a fence, dont know the difference between Biblical Law or regular law, have no clue as to what the Bible says and think they are spiritual shepherds, when in fact they are Corporate agents of the WATCHTOWER Corporation. Their first and foremost priority is to protect the WATCHTOWER Corporation before anything else, through their Corporate Bi-Laws, which is everything in their publications, which are produced by the corporate entity, not a religion, making it a corporate bi-law, not a Biblical standard.
Good on you for standing up to these organizational pharisees. I have a very similar story to yours apart from fading around 30 years of age after being constantly soft shunned. I woke up to the ridiculous politics amongst the elders after one used me to help his 28 year old suicidal narcissistic basement dwelling, socially awkward son come out of his shell and learn to talk to females at the KH then quickly discarded me because i refused to report on my field service. They told the Circuit overseer that the reason his son was hanging out with me was to encourage me spiritually yet they were doing the exact opposite. Because of this spiritual "encouragement" and the help of his bully elder father he was promoted to be a ministerial servant, everyone in the KH was shocked.
What a great story. Kudos to you, mate
You are correct. WT is a corporation created to intake cash and real estate. It has always been a money making scheme. It's all about the money $$$$. Always has been, always will be. Their origins are Masonic and Luciferian. Nothing good comes out of Lucifer/Satan.
I always used the scriptures..one elder told me he had never read Ezekiel..Anyway, as a fe.ale , I was disliked.They were surfers and football ( Australian) freaks..so big boys..but no knowledge...no Shepherd call, picked on ones on psych meds....They were babies and many of their wives ran things from the closet.
I had respect for one...Then after an op..he told me( when I phoned to see how he was)...He told me he had a high sex drive and was having problems having to wait a certain time.I started to silently pray.Then he went"Ahh. That's better" That's sick.
Later he told me he had told his wife not to speak with me...Because I knew what was going on...Greasy bunch and I've told them by sciptures..eg Jeremiah 23 and Ezekiel 34..
Too many had no fear of God or Yeshua/Jesus....
Babies..We belong toGod and Jesus..not a bunch of power freaks
Oh , sorry...Thank you for sharing your experiences. Hi...from Sydney
As an ex-JW elder myself, I agree with this guy's comment on the case at @ 1: 15: 00 where a member had taken the initiative to confess their sin to the elders. This in itself is cause for NOT DISFELLOWSHIPPING; as it lends credence to their heart's attitude about what they did, and their repentant state of mind. Shouldn't matter if was done more than once or not; the fact that they trusted the elders to judge them righteously and that they felt the need to confess to them; shows that they're sorry for what they did. Jesus Christ would have forgiven them, advised them to not do anything that could lead to that sin again, and go on serving Jehovah! It should be private reproof only, and not publicized to the congregation!! But he's right, there are elders who are on a power trip and wield their authority exactly as the Apostle Peter said NOT TO: " Do not be lording it over them, (the flock), 1 Peter 5: 3)
What an interesting interview, I wish Gary all the best now that he’s been freed from that destructive cult.
I had similar experiences with a few bully elders and their cowardly followers. I ended up walking out at the end of a meeting and never returning. No one checked up on me either. That was in 2016. So I was aloud to fade. When I run into elders at the store or in the neighborhood, they look very uncomfortable and would either ignore or avoid me. This doesn't bother me. I see it as a good thing.
I'm just at the halfway point of this interview but I have to say that Gary is the type of Genuine honest communicator that was rare in my experience with serving in any congregation. I have always said that the turning point for me was being appointed as an MS along with a visit to the Canadian Bethel back in the 90s which truly woke me up and served as a peek behind the curtain. I really look forward to reading his book and appreciate your channel Justin for the efforts you put into your interviews.
Justin, Great interview, you allowed Gary to talk uninterrupted. The point you brought out was made by Gary allowing me to listen. . Thank you
Thank you! Yes I always want my guest to have open speech as much as possible.
Great Job Justin God Bless You Bro
Thank you 🙏
@@exjwdiaries Appreciate you... Sadly Watchtower LIES have destroyed so many lives
Wow! 😢 This was difficult to watch as I am going through a very similar situation. Haven’t seen nor heard from my oldest child (my son) and my first grandson in over 9 yrs. The hurt, pain and feelings of displacement have been at times overwhelming. But my heart and prayers goes out to Tony & his wife. ❤🙏🏽
Wow, what a precious interview ❤ thanks a lot Justin!
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@exjwdiaries who is the living God?
Matthew 16:16
Simon Peter answered [To Jesus]: “You are the Christ, the SON.. of THE LIVING GOD.”
Jeremiah 10:10
But Jehovah is truly God. HE IS... - THE LIVING GOD - and the eternal King. Because of his indignation the earth will quake, And no nations will endure his denunciation.
John 17:3
This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
from a non-JW great interview. I wish my mum's friend would wake up. She made sure her daughter joined at a young age - the JW elder husband of a lowly job sounded like the bully. Completely ruined my mum's friend's daughter's life, who has continued depression (even after divorcing the her bully horrid husband. My mum is not a JW, but her best friend is JW, which I thought was unusual for a JW to have a worldly best friend, to the point of when she needed money, she went to my mum and stepfather rather than her JW friends.
This interview helped me so much. I was disfellowshipped but I am no longer defined by that word. Thank you for helping me realize that
Hello guys👐🏼. FYI. France did not disassociate himself but rather was DF for having a meal with a man that had disassociated himself.
When I read that I was pissed because it was so uncalled for
Wow, Thank you both. Being of the small brain set I 'd just like to say this has helped me more than I could have imagined. My son had always wanted to serve in a 'greater' way but Circuit over seers nor District could make their point when telling the elders to give him more responsibilities. He and his wife decided it would be best to separate but of course that was considered apostate reasoning and she pressed for a charge of adultery in the end so she could stand with head high, he eventually did something about that so, as he said to me (already out for years) well I am now guilty, so I paid it forward. He died in 2015 in a motorbike accident, and we were so surprised at how many people mourned his death. He was like Gary, he liked people and he listened and that validation of worth made him very popular. I still miss him even though there were years where he towed the shunning policy; we made up for it talking the weekends away, also shedding tears and he saw the need to get professional help for spiritual abuse. His illnesses went away, he gained self esteem and many, many wonderful friends. So Gary, I and probably many mothers can now understand the pressures of jealousy, elder judgement, and desire to control/bully others, plays a big part of getting the role in leadership; it doesn't matter that you are NOT being Christ like. We knew it, but I wish he could have heard this interview. He would be 63 this year.
He hit the nail on the head when he said that the elders mostly have low level jobs and probably alot of grunt work then they get a lil power with this community and it blows up there ego
‼️‼️‼️
Yes and that’s exactly why they don’t want their members to go to college or get any status in the world because then they will look to the GB for status and validation. The org is designed like that from the head down.
Its amazing to listen to people who were soooooo dedicated to the JW'S & how they slowly over the years start seeing things that don't make sense, but it still takes more years to still wake up, its Awesome to listen to these stories 😮😊 especially when you experienced the same things 😅AND! It's universal
Such a good video, please keep helping us keep an eye on these cases and what the watch tower is doing. ✊
Great interview!!
"Seems like the good guys eventually leave!" 🥰
Love your style and appreciate the time stamps and yes this is so juicy I will be watching it more than once. 😄
Thank you!! 🥰
Thanks for listening
Excellent interview... Riveting and refreshing... Have listened in its entirety, from beginning to end... It is very much of my time.. Lots of what Gary has gone through i have mirrored in my own life, so it all made perfect sense..
Thank you both for making this available... Outstanding...
How beautiful for you to share these tender moments of humility and wisdom.
Wishing you the best always
Since i recently retired ,im pissed that they told people they were faithless for preparing for retirement ...They claimed clearly that ,You Will Never Retire in this System brothers ...fortunately i got out early enough to get myself set 🎉🎉🎉🎉
Yes!! Up til the point I woke up, I was told to never worry about retirement, 401k, etc.
@@exjwdiaries wow .....if I hadn't prepared ...the ultimate blow ....
Thank you Justin for what you do. I really enjoyed what Gary shared also
Excellent interview the best one i heard
Very good ! Thanks for sharing
Many thanks to you both for your informative, balanced video.
Interviews like this, and others, really do help in the validation and deprogramming process 💪
Glad you enjoyed it!
I really live how this guy talks about what he thinks and how he views being disfellowshiped. Thank you man, I'll try and adapt the same attitude.
Like not live
Thank Gary, great job. You're correct, its the loving, kind elders that will make their way out...not your exact words :), My husband is out with me and he was the elder everyone came to because he truly saw them and their hearts, It was the CSA issue that made him leave the body. "The good guys DO leave" ❤
Wow OMG, excellent job young man, keep going with the comparisons, please, this is great, wonderful questions, to . We hope all other discussions will be formated like this one ,.we thank you
I just realized that I only know of ONE Elder who ever apologized for getting something wrong.
And I have known some very loving "shepherds"!!
But only one apology that I can think of! And that was to another Sister, years after she had begged for help with her "stepping out" husband. The Elder apparently told her "We should have listened and taken your concerns more seriously."
This was after the husband was finally caught cheating, after 10 years of abandoning my friend. Disfellowshipping of the man happened, then divorce, and of course he married the young woman and was welcomed back by his Narcissistic parents.
Even so, the sincere apology meant a lot to my friend.
Yeah it’s way too rare to hear an apology. The organization definitely puts them in a position where it’s easy for egos to inflate. Down to earth elders are definitely out there but far too rare.
To me, people in positions of responsibility have a SPECIAL reason to apologize when they have erred. It's important that the person hearing the apology understand that it was not their fault, and that they are not a bad person. But since elders confuse contrition and respect, they think it's important to NOT apologize, lest they lose the respect of the cong. Very bad for everyone.
In my congregation I was removed as MS for purchasing a 2 seater sports car.
They said it was not a “service vehicle” 🤷🏻😂
Omg I bought a sports car and was told the same thing. Even recently I bought i knew car and was asked why did a buy a new car if nothing was wrong with my old car….and that my car should be an “end of the system car” meaning: don’t buy another one …smh
They were jealous.. obviously..
See..babies
I live in south central Missouri, almost.1200 miles from this man and he`s describing my congregation verbatim. Only instead of calling them "bully's", I`m more comfortable with the term, "rule Nazi"!
I could listen to these interviews all day!! Thanks so much for posting these and keep up the good work!
Just loved this interview! More more more please!
😂😂😂 more on the way!
Gary you are a great person. You may have been at bethel with my older brother. Anyway amazing story. I am trying to keep some sort of faith in god. I hope that’s what you and your wife are doing also
I understand the not wanting to let our creator. But by the same token, you did the right thing. I had to get out too. You’re a very good man. Thank you so much for sharing your story 😊
It’s VERY interesting hearing from people that were at Bethel because we think of Bethelites as picturesque JWs. (I visited Bethel 3 times in my childhood during congregation NY trips). I used to think back in regret on the fact I married an unbeliever that turned out to be a malignant narcissist and said if I’d stayed on the right path I probably would’ve enjoyed going to Bethel. I’m realizing from a LOT of psychology study that being in that high control group may actually be what led me to/allowed me to be deceived into a narcissist relationship and miss the red flags. So to hear Bethelites saying they had rough experiences is extremely eye opening.
Justin, OMG, you are right...Political, absolutely, just like the "world" that they condemn!!! Love your channel!!!
Thanks!
Thank you so much!!! 🙏
Gary Alt is a down-to-earth man. At 1:20 he talks about the pride and lack of ability most elders displayed.
I know this to be true because I once asked my father many years ago if he had ever sat on a judicial committee where he questioned if they made. The right decision. He quickly said no. I was frankly disappointed in him.
I guess I should add that I am a female and he was a circuit overseer for a couple of years.
Wow, you look beautiful, dear.
Funny thing about 1975 is that in the field service, many brothers would still speculate that the reason they got it wrong is because they didn't know how old Adam was before Eve was created. Then they would say that the correct calculation would be to add Adam's age to the equation. Then some would suggest 30 years old from the thin, then 2005 came and 2025 is now around the corner!
Words to live by you made a great point and I’m adding to it ….….I have a hundred problems but JWs seeing me and not speaking isn’t one of them…..I’m free from the mind control tactics and cult mentality❤❤
This was a good brother
I went through almost exactly the same as you did . (without the bethel part ) Took awhile to realize Jehovah had nothing to do with the org . But much happier now that I do . 4th Gen also in till we left .
Love your hair man! The elders would love it!
Just found your channel. Sooooo good!
Welcome!!
Wonderful episode. Thank you, Lloyd and Izzy.
I went through 2 marriages, and both times Elders were involved planning my demise with my wife behind my back. The 1st time we had a bad alcoholic Elder, who would buy Burbon by the half gallon but cases of half gallons, providing to a minor in the Congregation and I reported it because I had to send this young servant home at 7am from work because he was to drunk to climb a ladder. So I became the target! They pulled a surprise Judicial without informing me, I was just called to the Hall and walked into a Judicial "surprise" and I was informed I was being disfellowship fir apostasy. Of course I defended myself by demanding a reason "Apostasy" for trying to overthrow the Elder arrangement! Just fantastic made up stuff! Their key witness as I demanded Witnesses and they only had 1, so they called the witness in, and it was my very sick wife of over 20 years. She had a seriously enlarged left ventricle and was terminal, and on heavy medications. 😳 long story short I caught all the Elders in a fabricated lie, one would say one thing the next Elder would contradict the others. They decided because of their obvious slander it was just a big misunderstanding. My terminal wife had just destroyed any trust we could ever have. She died in 2012. I remarried but to a Kenyan woman who was Catholic, and became inactive for about 2 years. Returned to the Congregation but she right away was contacted by a heavy Elder and was working with him to again execute me. Problem was I really did love this woman. And again things went south but in a bad way. I knew something was off, but I thought it could be the Catholics. I had to have a hip replacement, and as a transit driver, I had excellent coverage. So I went into the hospital in January 2016. My wife showed up late just as they were putting me under. When I came to in recovery, no wife to be seen! I was released the next morning, no one to pick me up. I had my Jeep Wrangler in the parking lot, no choice I had to drive myself home in serious pain. Elders refused to help. And the next time I seen my wife she was divorcing me. I was using a walker to cook and do laundry. And I was just laying in bed waiting to heal up so I could return to work. And I thought, what the he'll why am I paying for this big house, so I just called Social Security and put in for my retirement as I turned 62 already. Informed the Transit Company. Later I moved to another Congregation and found out the Elders had influenced my Kenyan wife to divorce me. They had been meeting with her for a year before I had surgery. Things they said to me; they had her get my phone records, my bank records every personal record they could get their dirty fingers on! But I had kept only some past bad financial records that I had paid off. My real financial records were hidden with my Mom. I had over $40,000 just in a 457plan and some thousands in cash hidden. But these Elder's thought I was broke financially! So this Elder "heavy" told me he could not wait to drive by my homeless tent on the way to meetings! Because they though they had that much power over me, and that Ivwas broke! So I just moved out, met a pioneer Sister in Africa, flew To Africa, met her in person, so she was precious! Younger than my eldest Son by a year, and I married her in late 2017! That was my answer to them they had no control over me, it was just made up in their own dirty filthy 🧠 brains! We are married almost 6 years now and loving it. We have a small farm, we are building our home, and we are shunned now! I learned there are 6 or 7 slanderous letters against me. My wife perfect service for Jehovah for over 38 years, never did one thing wrong ever! Disfellowshipped being told her faithful service to Jehovah does not matter to them! We attend meetings without their knowledge on podcasts but spit out the lies, and stick to what is written. If Jehovah wants to back slanderers so be it. It is now in Jehovah's realm of justice! So be it! Amen 🙏
Thank you for sharing your experience.... I wish I could hang out with you guys..., 👋😊
LOVED THIS.
I praise YAH my G-d who had to force me out to discover my Jewish identity and return to Him and His Torah as a Jew. Today, He made become his associate Messianic Rabbi in the Body of Messiah.
No wonder I didn't become a Bethelite nor miniserial servant in Angola, NY. Too much politics and nepotism in Jehovah's Witnesses.
Rabbi Derrick Whitt
Syracuse NY
Good interview. One point of clarification. The Organization runs training programs that train elders. Over the decades thousands of elders have been created at Bethel and were groomed by the Bethel mentality then go out into the congregations.
The college issue was printed in the WT magazine, and in parts on district conventions. Many of these issues were covered at conventions. Gary says the elders are responsible? How is it the organization is not responsible? There are bodies of elders that go out in the left field but make no mistake. The big picture shows that the organization has pushed these rules way before Gary served.
See reply to Mimi-uv2nh above. It's a bit more complicated than that.
Thanks
Wow thank you!!
This is so true to many rules and so call congregation bullies not elders I was told you have to button up your suit jacket to get on the platform or else you want be allowed
The God of the WT is a corporate lawyer
Very cold and legal ,and the appointed men, need to follow the legalistic way that is detected by the secret book.
Elders that are consumed by their authoritarian disposition will go along with that.
Fortunately are some Elders that do recognize that the Bible, and Jesus teaching do point to a different approach, and they do try to implement it.
But the structure of the beast will not allow those honest and sincere men to succeed
Thank you for sharing the experience in regards to the elder that was a bully. There is one that i know of who is hard everyone else but soft on his family and to make matters worse he has an offender in his family that goes to the same hall and tries to promote that family memeber instead of reporting him.
Thank God Watchtower is going out of Business SOON! GOVERNMENT RAIDS!
Me: I’ll watch it. Me after looking at how long the video is: daaaayyyuumm
True,. but it flows pretty good. Gary tells his story as though he's having a conversation.
Good interview but the organization definitely discouraged college in there publications. True, they never said you can’t go but they alluded to the dangers …..when I went to college in the 80’s I was looked down upon and had privileges taken away . So in a sense he’s right that it wasn’t a written rule but the elders could read between the lines !
Gary, I grew up in that area and attended one of the halls. I was a child then but I remember you and I know what you mean by the culture up there. Glad you make it out!
You mean Westbury NY?
Wow small world!
@@garyalt1475 Newton...familiar?
@@Diana-kh9wf Newton NJ? Of course - I was in Sussex. Gave a few talks in Newton, and we used to have "big-boy" meetings there before CAs.
WOW..small world. It was pretty messed up there, actually. Couldn't wait to get out
What a beautiful interview. Thank you
I have to also clarify the DF subject. Gary was not around until the 80's so he is unaware that even people not baptized were treated like DF'd people throughout the 60s & 70s. Total cut-off. No contact. Then sometime in the 80's they ran a series of articles to differentiate weakness vs wickedness. For a while that softened some but it didn't last long.
I came in 1974. I was an elder when those changes happened in the 80s. You are correct that "approved associates" who strayed were up until then treated as DFed. (The expression "approved associate" also changed over the years.) I remember visiting someone who had been an approved associated (later called "unbaptized publisher") that was treated as DFed, explaining to her the "good news" that she can now breathe easy.
The bully was a narcissist!
Exactly! So many of them in the org.
I don’t remember you Gary. I went to the Bayside congregation, but knew a lot of witnesses throughout Long Island. Out of NY now, living in the Southwest.
Do you remember the Hendersons? Adam was from Bayside and then served in Westbury in the late 70s, 80s.
@@garyalt1475 - No, I don’t recall that name. I left in 1970 and moved to Hawaii, so I may have missed them. I believe a “sister” named Sue Smith was in your congregation and was dating my friend Fabian Cavalluzzo.
I pioneered in Bayside for years, where prior to building their own hall, we met at the KH in Flushing. I eventually left “the truth” in 1975, and never got past ministerial servant status.
Names are not familiar. I was in Westbury 1974-1981, then again 1985 briefly.
@@garyalt1475 - I grew up in Whitestone, right by the Throgs Neck Bridge. But, I’ve been to Old Westbury Gardens on occasion. Hung out at Jones Beach all the time. I miss the that whole Long Island atmosphere, but I’m sure like NYC, it’s changed for the worse. It was crazy back then how the JW kids used to marry so young, in their teens. They didn’t really know each other, but we’re afraid of getting caught crossing the forbidden line! And I “almost” went to Bethel, but decided against it, as I didn’t want to live an institutionalized life with a bunch of “brothers”. I look forward to reading your book!
I knew a really kind elder who was forced to step down when he let his disfellowshipped son live with him while he was trying to get reinstated. I never understood why.
This interview confirm to me that what is happening in the Spanish congregations is wrong. Elders who work mainly in labor jobs without almost any school education become superman with a super ego because they are in charge of 100 people. They don't have the skills to manage that task properly but they think they are the kings of the jungle. They said that the elders are going to be princes in the new world, also they believe that the lectern is an aphrodisiac and they think that all the sisters see them handsome. There are a lot of sexual harassment in the Spanish congregation from the elders and married men. Even myself stop attending meetings because of that, I said something about it and they told me that I took those advances in the wrong way like some others sisters. I ask them, why we the women are wrong and the men said the true?
You very lucky in a year and a half being in the truth 47 years my son studied 10 years and was said he can not babtize because he did not have a Christen man in the house although my brothers was ministerial servants and elders 10 years later my daughter wanted to get married asked the JW again they said no why cant my brothers marry her though they did not say that when after 10 years of study my son had to keep adking for studies as elders just left he study he had to ask for 10 years even a sister and ended up saying no all the time althouggh I was a babtized sister had no support to help my family my family was treated cold with no feeling at all and would love to share my experience of 47 years basically ruined my life !!!!!!!!
I remember being wrongfully disf only to realize there is no holy spirit. Shit still bothers me today, my question is now if anyone can answer, what really is the truth? Is God really real? Please someone .... :(
Watch the video “What is the real truth”. There are no beliefs pushed in that video but it will show no one has the truth. We truly don’t know what we don’t know. As for God different people will tell you differently. I definitely believe in something but not religion. You can email me if you want to know more.
@@exjwdiaries will do bro
@@exjwdiariescan I email you?
Some of those things have become organizational rules in the last 20ish years, not DFing offenses but rules non the less
I read “Elder boy politics”
Leo Greenlees was in my cong. Del Mar CA after his dismissal. He stayed at a very wealthy sisters mansion in Rancho Sante Fe for a short time until she found out why he got the boot. Then she gave him the boot also. He landed in New Orleans I heard. The sister was married to Briggs Cunningham. Google search that name when you have time. He was never a witness.
Sounds like our current government.
As a Born in JW I felt the WT Organization had so much Rules No rhyme or reason Gary explain it was more Political instead of a Loving arrangement too much Dissension among the Elders…
Its not brain size that matters but the number if neural connections and a womans brain on average has more connections between left and right hemispheres.
I wish the interview had gone further into the csa accusation.
The regimen of Bethel with all the bells had no allure for me, it reminded me too much of boarding school
This observation about elders being unanimous is true. You can have a good body of elders, but one elder to quote another elder, can be" the loudest voice on the body" , can cause such much division and disunity. One elder went so far as to divide the congregation between his big family and the actual congregation. He as an elder is very critical of everything all the eligible appointable brothers, while giving passes to his family. How bad? His son is unregistered with a past sa issue that prevents him from being alone with children, and they are both in the same hall together. Nepotism at its finest but also a conflict of interest from a spiritual and possibly legal. But God rights things in his own due time.
Mam nadzieję, że dodasz napisy i że będą też w moim języku.
I hope that you may add subtitles in Polish too.:)
@@forgetmenot47 Unfortunately, I can not. There is no automatic translation in my language. Creator did not enable. try it yourself! I don't know English well enough to translate the content myself.
@@szepty_z_sekty tylko przerzucilam Twoją wiadomość w angielski żeby była dobrze zrozumiana... I masz rację. Ale - w "ludzkim" czasie przetłumaczenie tego zajmuje trochę. Czy możesz wpisać w wyszukiwarkę coś w rodzaju "tłumaczenie wideo" , "AI tłumaczenie wideo", "mistrz tłumaczenia wideo" i zobaczyć co wyjdzie? Możesz też zwolnic to wideo i zapoznać się z podpisami w angielskim i je wrzucić w tłumacza. Odpowiedziałaś w angielskim - nie ma mowy żebyś nie mogła tego zrobić dla siebie - ale trochę osiwiejesz z wysiłku i potrzebnej cierpliwosci. Trzymaj się ciepło.
@@forgetmenot47 nie mam tyle czasu, a przecież wiem, że autor może je włączyć.. ale dziękuję za chęci 😁 Co ciekawe Google tłumaczy komentarze, więc głównie subskrybuję dla komentarzy.
@@szepty_z_sekty ta druga opcja była troszke dla zartu ... Ta pierwsza wyszukania automatycznego tlumaczenia czyjegos widea - jak najbardziej do zrobienia z warunkiem - niewiem co jest dostepne w Polsce. Gosc naprawde mowi rzeczy z sensem i z punktu widzenia ktorego nie znalazlam u nas, dlatego jestem tu Tobie takim samozwanczym adwokatem posluchania wynikow jego pracy w calosci. Google audio z dwoch urzadzen tez działa, bo teraz sprawdziłam. Pa!
What a poor fellow. His whole life he was made to worry about stuff that didn’t matter. All those rules.
What took you so long to make this miraculous discovery that JWs don't have the truth? I find that interesting.
What's that boot camp he was talking about?
When JWs shun a parent they also don't include the children of this parent in any outside activities, nor let their children associate with the children of a parent being shunned. This is so damaging to the children... especially if the one being shunned still attends meetings. This has to happen to you in order to truly appreciate how widespread damaging shunning is.
I thought Tay franz got disfellowshipped for eating with a dissociated person??
Yep! They targeted him.
I explained that bit incorrectly. You are correct.
👏👏👏👏👏💥💥💥🔥💯
Btw, what type of insurance? What's the name of his company?
He's not spilling all the beans about what he did😅
The money system (gold standard) died in 75
have you ever thought about how to JWs target immigrants as well? my mom came to america with no family and no help and by the time i came around, she was already rubbing shoulders with the witnesses saying that, “they were the few people who showed her kindness”. it’s crazy how when i travelled back home to sierra leone to “serve where the need is greater”, it was the same method but flipped on its head. instead of preying on immigrants, it’s was poor people in a third world country and somehow i really do think that’s evermoreso insidious… idk it’s an interesting think piece (that i would love to be apart of)
I had a elder point his finger in my face to provoke me so they could call the police on me but I saw what was going on and kept my cool but I was blamed for getting the elders upset what's wrong with that picture
They say this will be the signs of the end being heartless threw them then they say this is the signs of the end according to me untill the end JESUS showed love they say this is Satan doing all their cold heartness!!
Bahahahaa. One meeting, one hour… 3 meetings and multiple hours each time here.
A man's enemy will be of his own household of faith That was Jesus experience He was not put to death by pagans but by JWs. It's just having another fulfilment in modern times.
Jesus was put to death as a blasphemer but he was in full fellowship with Jehovah. Learn obedience to Jehovah not to any house or organization by what you suffer as Jesus did
I know several people who left. They didn’t want to be told they couldn’t get drunk have premarital sex or live by Bible standards. Religion not for everyone. I knew a kid once who while playing basketball would get upset if he didn’t get the ball passed enough to him and he wasn’t that good. So he just took his ball and left. I never seen a RUclips post about that. More people just need to take their ball and leave. No need for a video complaining or explaining. lol
Only organisation on earth to use God's name ' Jehovah has to use imperfect men'
@@robertstambulovski
Robert, Watchtower's men are imperfect as you say. But do they apologize when they wrong someone in judicial action? No, they don't! Watchtower keeps Christians from partaking of the bread and the wine. Satan doesn't want Christians to partake of the bread and the wine. Maybe you are here on this website because Jehovah and Jesus want you to have the opportunity to "wake up" to Watchtower's wickedness.
yahweh, yaldabaoth, red dragon, lion head serpent, the devil
Soooooo he got divorced behind his wife siding with the religion of JW's , Religion divides😢