"Just like Apple I think". A very astute observation there Tim. Some people are so hung up on brand "snobbery", they fail to see poor value in some objects.
Absolutely correct. My 14 y.o. daughter has been so thoroughly brainwashed by Apples marketing that she won't even consider another brand. Each month she spends a substantial % of her pocket money on paying the difference between what I pay for her sisters Samsung and the iPhone price, and with every software update her phone gets slower and has reduced app. compatibility. So she complains about needing a new phone whilst her sisters faster, cheaper & better Samsung costs her nothing! It's madness - and a lesson that she needs learn.
Watch guys are the most obsessed with "brand" of any hobbyists I've ever seen. Swiss watches are unequivocally NOT "the best" and overpriced for what features you get for the money but internet watch _idiot_ savants wholeheartedly believe they are the greatest thing going today.
Berufsziel Diktator einer Uhrenrepublik? ;) Und ja, ich sehe es auch so: einige deutsche Uhren sind absolut hässlich. Das liegt auch am Fokus auf die technischen Daten, Uhrwerk und Funktionen. Da spielt das Design eine untergeordnete Rolle. Produktion für die Zielgruppe Technikfreaks. Viele deutsche Hersteller, die das Design zumindest nicht komplett an den Sohn des Firmenbesitzers abgeben wollen, setzen dann auf Bauhaus. Ohne Bauhaus wäre es dann eine komplett Katastrophe.
Hi CB Tim. Firstly, I absolutely ᴀᴅᴏʀᴇ your little Dubey & Schaldenbrand. It is such a dignified & masculine timepiece. I'm surprised that in todays ᴠɪɴᴛᴀɢᴇ = ɢᴏᴏᴅ (which it mostly does!) market that established brands are not using similar designs more often. Re. the Q&A: As a 'creative' I would be very surprised if you have never day-dreamed about designing a watch yourself. Are you able (and willing!) to share with us how a watch designed by Caseback Tim might look and function? Thank-you Tim and good health to you and your loved ones. Anthony.
Since you mentioned Japan, it seems that both Seiko and Citizen are capable of producing fantastic watches, with some real passion for quality...design, maybe a different thing, but Seiko seems to succeed.
I took delivery of a 2020 version of the Seiko Alpinist a little over a month ago. I loved the watch (the cream and gilt dialled variant with the green leather strap - the SPD123J) the minute I saw it. Unfortunately I was influenced by those in the community who were outraged by the price increase and didn't immediately pick one up. Anyway, long story short, after depriving myself of the piece for months, I stumbled across a sale and grabbed one for $700AUD ($425USD give or take) from an online AD, BNIB and with the full Seiko international warranty. It's a ғᴀɴᴛᴀsᴛɪᴄ watch. The overall quality, the case finishing ᴀɴᴅ the mov't easily equals any Swiss piece I've paid similar money for. I purchased an after market jubilee bracelet for it too, which will only elevate it more. I love my Seiko SNZH-57J (55 Fathoms) and my quartz 'mini Flightmaster' chronograph (SND253P), but it's the burgeoning mid range Seikos in the +/- $750USD price range that are really taking the entry level European brands on in that high quality / low cost market sector these days. So I could not agree with your comment more. Cheers. A.
@@lucafwn I can't speak from experience because I've never owned one (I do like some of the offerings in the Bambino line, but I have no real use for an everyday dress watch) but Orient seem to be absolutely killing it in the entry level diver market ATM, as well as offering some solid field watches. They really seem to have gathered up many of the disgruntled Seiko lovers in the last few years, and good on them. ✌🏼️ Anthony.
Great video. Had a personal guided tour through the Lange factory and was reallly blown away by the whole factory and attention to detail, so I think German watchmaking is really on the same or maybe even on a better level in attention to detail and quality compared to Swiss watchmaking. My question: What are your 3 favorite swiss watches under 600€? Best regards and keep up the good work.:)
Personally i'm totally crazy about German watches, mainly Glashütte Original and A. Lange & Söhne, their watch movements are a pure piece of art which i, compared to with Swiss watches, feel a deeper appreciation for. I'm glad i found your channel.
Comment # 2 The Swiss V's German question is a good one. I was surprised to recently learn that German law regarding what may be labelled as ᴍᴀᴅᴇ ɪɴ ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴʏ is very similar to the Swiss law. As you said in your upload on the topic, the sᴡɪss ᴍᴀᴅᴇ branding (it is, IMO, branding) is more accurately described by the term sᴡɪss ᴍᴏᴠ’ᴛ & ᴀssᴇᴍʙʟʏ and I was surprised to discover that a similar term can be used to describe ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴ ᴍᴀᴅᴇ watches, though I'm not sure why I'm surprised, it's all marketing in the end... Personally, I don't have an issue with the laws that govern what can & cannot be labelled as swiss / ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴ ᴍᴀᴅᴇ. As long as the quality doesn't suffer I'm happy to have my bracelets, watch cases, crystals and who knows what else produced in Asia if it (a) allows entry level established European brands to remain competitive and (b) reduces the cost of the watches I buy. Like most enthusiasts I own timepieces from all around the globe. I enjoy my cheap Seagulls, San Martins & Vostoks as much as I enjoy my more pricey Swiss and Japanese watches. However, in my experience (which ɪs somewhat ʟɪᴍɪᴛᴇᴅ), nobody beats the Swiss at the production of high volume, entry level movement manufacture. The Japanese come close to matching ETA & Seliitta with mov'ts like Seikos 6R35. And when housed in an appropriate case, Miyotas 9 series mov'ts can be an excellent 3rd party mov't. One could even argue that the cheap & cheerful NH35 is all the mov't one really ɴᴇᴇᴅs in an everyday wearer... If you follow my meaning? With all that said, I'll repeat: nobody tops the Swiss at high volume, good quality entry level mov'ts. I'm not a fan of this industry wide push toward ɪɴ ʜᴏᴜsᴇ mov'ts. That just sounds like me sending my timepiece across the world & back to pay twice the amount for a service from someone I don't know and have no way of communicating with. I don't like that at all. And lastly, some thoughts on ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴ watches: as an Australian I will take more interest in a ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴ watch than a sᴡɪss watch. I see sᴡɪss watches every day!, whilst I rarely see a ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴ watch in the wild. I also think that the ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴ watch industry punches far above its weight in genuine history and design. Whether it be in distinctive military design, Bauhaus minimalism or high horology. When people talk of the 'Holy Trinity' I'm thinking 'what've you done for me lately'? LBecause to my eyes ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴʏs A. Langë & Sohne have been - without question - ᴛʜᴇ premier watchmakers of the 21st Century thus far! Wow! That's a L O N G rant. But I mean every word of it! Cheers, Anthony. TL/DR: Australian nobody pontificates about the state of the watch industry despite not knowing much about the watch industry. 😶
Why do you say that entry level "Swiss" movements are better than Japanese movements? I have several watches and found in my (limited and anecdotal) experience that Swiss movements are less reliable than Japanese movements. My watch that keeps the worst time has a Sellita SW200 movement and the quartz with the worst registration I've ever experienced was an ETA. I wore very cheap/free analog watches in high school that did a better job hitting the marks than this watch did. Sent that one back to the manufacturer for a replacement that merely acceptably ticked off the mark. For me, it's not worth the upcharge for stuff made in Asia and then stamped "Swiss Made."
@@Mister_Phafanapolis Great question mate. And sorry for the late response. I remember seeing the comment ages ago when I didn't have time to respond then must've forgot. Strap in mate. This may take a while... 🙂 So. I doubt my experience would be any more significant than yours, I may be less experienced! I can't speak to Swiss quartz - never owned one. But I do think that Japan is the king of quartz precision. My Bulova Lunar Pilot is like a freakin' atomic clock! I have changed the time 3X in the 18ish months I've owned it - all for Daylight Saving and it's always been around 1 sec. off...if that. Mechanically - my best quality mov't is the Selitta 330 in my Glycine Airman. The crown feel is sooo buttery, the action of restarting the mov't after time setting is like actuating a high end chrono pusher... I have the ETA equivalent, an elaboré grade 2893/2 in a Steinhart GMT, a great mov't again buttery crown action again but without the 'finesse' when restarting the hacked mov't. Same for my hand wound Hammy mov't and 2824-2 variants. I have a heap of NH35's and I really like them, one Miyota 90s5 which I like more and the Seiko 6R35, which I really rate. My issue with Japanese entry level mov'ts is the gritty crown action. This grittyness is the result of less precise engineering. The better engineered the various cogs and wheels etc., the less 'grinding' - which is what that grittyness is, or perhaps it's the result of a poorly lubricated mov't, or possibly both? - either way, it all falls under the 'quality' umbrella...and I will emphasise that I have good & better NH35 's. Whereas I can't say that about my ETA'S (granted, I haven't handled as many...). As far as accuracy goes, a 1 example of a number of different mov'ts isn't going to tell us much - and they can always be regulated. But in my experience, my entry level Swiss mov'ts keep more consistent time. If I get one running at +10, it'll run at +10. Always. On or off the wrist, straight out of the box or in 12mths time (unless I drop it or smash it on a door frame!). My Seiko's and my Miyota vary a bit. The Miyota less, but still it runs fast by about 8spd on wrist and slows down to + 1-3 off wrist and all my Seiko's - including the 6R35 run fast off the wrist and more accurate on the wrist. My 6R35 has gone from a steady +4ish (from memory) to a steady -5/7ish in 3 months. But again, my point is more about fluctuation than exact s.p.d accuracy. They're the reasons why I said what I said. All the experiential based 'knowledge' + a few conversations with my (disinterested and mumbling grumpy old) watchmaker! I'm far from an expert mate. Only been in the hobby 5 yrs or so, so the comment is ᴘᴜʀᴇʟʏ opinion based. Cheers bud. I hope my rambling makes sense. A.
I have a massive soft spot for German watches ❤️ I’d take a GO, Lange, Lang & Heyne, and/or Moritz Grossman over any one of their Swiss counterparts 10 times out of 10
Thank you for pointing out that a lot of German watches are extremely ugly! This is in fact the reason I am turned of by most of them! Especially the Bauhaus ones!
Nice video as always. A question for yout next Q & A (or maybe not, it's a little offtopic): I like very much the way you dress: will you consider expand yor channel to men's style advice? Or perhaps a second channel?
I disagree regarding the Junghans Max Bill versus Longines Flagship Heritage comparison. If anything, the Max Bill holds up as a design to this very moment. The Flagship really has resigned to a smaller space in contemporary design, one of nostalgia and not forward looking when compared with the popularity of the mid-century design clarity fostered by Herr Bill. Would Apple, IKEA, Swatch have their sleek looks without the Mid Century Modern design school? Add onto that the fact that Max Bill himself is a true legend in terms of Swiss Mid Century design, and therefore we are talking about a watch with true Swiss pedigree regardless of where the device was made. So I feel I must now ask, genuinely: Who designed the Flagship? Perhaps you already know. I had a look on Longine's website, which makes it clear that this is a tribute to their history, although somehow no designer is mentioned. I would assume it was a great designer for it is a long lasting design. It is unfortunate that their legacy is not mentioned or even attributed. To me, I see that the Heritage is looking back with nostalgia on the days when Longines had influence. Not everyone likes modern art, but the sweeping influence Max Bill had globally is still undeniable. Everything the most popular furniture and cell phones to typefaces and watches are touched by Mid Century Modern, a school of design which he helped spread. I conclude that the legacy of the Junghans Max Bill is a real Swiss design phenomenon, far greater than the Longines Heritage. Perhaps it was made in Germany, but for example: do we say that the Apple computers are a Chinese, or FOXCONN design? My opinion is no. Maybe another comparison would have been more convincing here, but I feel you are open to discussion so this is my comment.
I'm not sure, but I assume your 'you guys are not ready...' comment refers to Steinharts reputation as an homage brand? I like what Steinhart does and I think that there is room for a Steinhart in most collections. They offer fantastic value and who doesn't want just a little piece of truly unobtainable watch design on their wrist every now and then? Their case design is exquisite also, something that many neglect to acknowledge whilst they talk about this hobbies most circular conversation : to homage or not to homage!
As Christmas is on the horizon, what VERY affordable watch might you buy for a young relative who has never owned a watch before? Parameters: 1) Unisex 2) Under €200 3) suitable for a variety of situations though not necessarily for swimming. 4) mechanical or quartz. I've given up on my son, he has no interest in watches. He's 24 and has a cheap quartz 32mm Calvin Klein that has seen better days. Someone gave it to him and he hardly ever wears it anyway. Naturally, as a watch fiend, I sometimes feel like disowning him but at least he doesn't ask to borrow mine (he's notoriously treats his things badly, with the exception of his vintage Epiphone Les Paul). He's laughing as I write this. :) Stimulating show as usual (I admire the get so many things done!).
You can start by checking out the new Timex quartz watches. All are under 200.00. Go to Marc's website, Long Island Watch. He also has many other brands under 200.00.
@@mgb1971 Err, I don't think so. I picked up a secondhand Timex Navi harbor for peanuts (€20) in mint condition with box and everything to use as a time reference for my mechanicals. I have to say it was probably the poorest watch in terms of finish I've ever owned. My first ever watch was a Timex as a kid in 1962 so I'm not being biased.
No comunist stars on swiss watches? For sure there is a zenith with a red star ;) especially in western cantons of Switzerland such as Jura comunism does not have such a bad stigma. Grüsse aus zürich
Reviewing g various videos showcasing watch brands , the Swiss win as industrial scale giants. But you pay premiums due to their research and development (Rolex), their marketing campaigns ((Rolex, Omega, etc), and e st specially their extreme testing and validation. Process (Rolex). So yes, the huge team requires their cut for support. But hey , excellent quality right? Stratospheric price too ,eh? Eh ? Germany, from my viewership of videos tends to be smaller and they will use trend andvtrye up to date tools and manufactiring techniques, standard validation processes, smaller network. But they lean more towards handcrafted (Dornbluth and son) though they too have leaner modern fabrication (Steinhart, Lsco, Stowa, etc). Steinhart does their own internet marketing and so they eliminate costs and prices of their time pieces are very competitive. In the end. Do you buy a watch to keep locked away for you to pay homage to it every once in a while? Or do you give it some wrist time for everyday mundane use or to prodding through nature adventures ? Seiko, Citizem and now Orient are nipping at the heels of their European counterparts and offer great value: quality and price. Clever product placing on the movies sell the watches for them.
Service costs? Astronomical! My Breitling Blackbird began stopping for no apparent reason. Took it to a Breitling AD, who sent it to Switzerland for service. Breitling came back with an estimate for repair in excess of $2,000 ( including a crystal replacement). I declined the crystal replacement and had the remainder of the services performed to the cost of $1,600+. The crystal was fine, as it was when i sent it in. About a year later it began stopping again. I think the automatic works are not winding the watch as it will run from a full wind and then quit! Not happy!
German watch making is amazing.... huge sinn fan but starting to discover Glashutte which is just amazing. For me Swiss for divers German for aviation... BTW ugly German watch rant very funny! 🤣🤣🤣 I love how the Germans don't care though they just wanna make technically awesome watches!
I forgot to mention Russian made watches. Their movements are blamd as hell or can be above that , but they are done quite well with very long stretches between maintemance. The designs are clever (Vostok) as they wanted to avoid the pricey swiss made manufacturing and Design overkill approach. Reputation? The feeling of pure industrial grade...but that is just the rep. They do make gorgeous watches at very low prices. But get them from Russia. I bought Ukraine made watches and got what I deserved.
Two comments, one question, to some extent related: 1. When I think past brands to German and Swiss national identity, which is the crux of your video, my instant thought is that I expect a German manufacturer to be transparent, and the Swiss manufacturer to be opaque. Tout de watchverse talks about Rolex restricting their supply or buying up examples, for instance. There is no EU accountability. German manufacturers are German companies, and they have German levels of corporate accountability. This isn't to say that there aren't German corporate scandals, but when there are, German business can be counted on to react in certain ways. 2. Ethics, sustainability and governance are very important to the Germans I work with. They view these as part of a *strong* relationship between brand and ethics, because the customer wants to associate with a certain ethical message. It is widely thought among European business leaders that this will be very important in the years to come. We have seen to *some* extent that Swiss watchmakers are willing to take steps to open up about their ethics and sustainability. 3. So my question: What will the future narratives in watchmaking be? Can myths like 'in-house' survive? As Richemont, for instance, builds movements centrally with brand customisation on a large scale; will they pretend that this is different from Swatch Group or Seiko doing the same? What will we say about a watch in 2025? Thanks for another great video, and I look forward to seeing the perfect ushanka. I remember the Russian officers' caps I saw in Kosovo with their lush astrakhan fur: keep an eye on astrakhan/Persian lamb. Sewing it is so much easier than mink or sable or fisher pelts.
LOL I have to agree about the ugliness of some German watch designs, especially highly utilitarian divers and certain "modern" aviation designs. I'm not naming names. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or start an argument. In fairness, though, there are German designs though that combine utility and elegance in a tremendously appealing way, whether traditional or modern in concept, and then there are also designs so beautiful, so beautifully crafted and so expensive I couldn't bear to put them on.
As a matter of fact, regions does not mean much today. Seiko alone can give you outstanding quality at any price level; the other main Japanese companies offer good low-to mid tier watches too, and you can even get good watches from China, if you are ready to pay something more than peanuts - but as the happy owner of two SeaGull 1963, you already know that! Speaking of Far East: ever owned, or had any direct experience with, an Orient Star or a Grand Seiko? What's your opinion about "upper tier" Japanese watches?
Such an excellent and informative presentation on this topic. You truly have a wonderful way of describing things. I enjoyed viewing and learning much from this video compared to some of the other watch channels that I'm subscribed too. I most certainly will look forward to watching the next presentation. 💛
That JLC story is crazy. You'd think the "watchmaker's watchmaker" would employ competent watchmakers for their service department. Question, maybe a silly one, but forgive me as I am American and my knowledge of Europe is not deep. My understanding is that there's a French part of Switzerland and a German part, and that Geneva is in the French part. Are there watch brands located in the German part? Is their product more "german"?
With the arse falling out of the luxury watch trade to China and the Chinese can produce copy watches that are better than the originals, the Swiss should get their game together or Germany, France, Britain, America as well as some of the smaller watch assembly countries will take trade off them.
Meine Frage an dich und den Kanal, Tim: Independent vs. Marken, die Teil von großen Gruppen sind wie Richemont, LVMH und Swatch. Sollte man diesen Faktor beim Uhrenkauf berücksichtigen? Sind Independents grundsätzlich wertstabiler und haben mehr "Seele", oder gibt es auch Vorteile für Marken, die sich keine Sorgen um Liquidität bei der Wahl ihrer Zulieferer machen müssen?
Con for Germany: often very loud dial colours. Pro for germany: often small brands releasing real value propositions: Guinand, Archimede. I prefer German
This is true - although one increasingly hears serious watch collectors here in the UK (and in America) saying German watchmaking is now the best in the world.
Question for a future video: why do modern manufacturers -- micro and macro -- build watches with ghost dates? Why do big manufacturers still sell pocket watch movements and small seconds movements and other oddball artefacts that service small market niches, while apparently making it hard to source small numbers of three-hand-only movements? What are the commercial realities of manufacturing and buying movements in a modern fast-fabrication world?
Well done Tim, finally you got it right Seiko pronounced correctly ha ha ha. Yet another enjoyable video which I totally agree with your thoughts and opinion on in every respect. I always look forward to my weekly fix from you.
Thank you for an insightful and interesting review. Brand value is something that all brand owners are trying to build (hopefully), but it's perhaps the hardest part of the work
Very true. Micro brands need to mature beyond the 'safety' of the rotating bezel. Tudor, Orient, Seiko, Rolex, Laco, Stowa and especially Sinn have ᴀʟʟ had huge success with rotating bezel-less sports watches in recent times. Time Factors and Damasko are the only Micros (that come to mind) who have joined that party...
Tim, I have to agree servicing Swiss timepieces is pure extortion and I recall getting my Heuer back from service only for the crown to fall off and saying goodbye to it for another month or so while they installed a new crown. So much for Swiss QC!
Just got an Ophion Velos with salmon dial.Very happy with it .Company based in Spain but sources parts from both countries and honestly declare 70% Swiss 30% German on the case back.It is an interesting way of providing enthusiasts a quality piece at reasonable cost.Miguel the founder finds time to engage with his customers.Well worth a look.
I very much want a cheap mechanical chrono, and I love the look of the 1963. But, I do not want the Chinese Communist Party Star on my wrist. Tim, is there a watch you will not wear because of politics?
I feel you man. Such a nice movement those Seagulls have, I think the Venus 175 is one of the most beautiful mass-market movements ever made. But the communist imagery just ruins it for me, especially being an Eastern European. I even contemplated buying one just for the movement, but I wouldn't wear it
Look at Merkur watches. They have a typical 60's 'design by parts catalogue looking racing Chronograph (Panda dial). Around $200USD or less. I don't know how you feel about Strela / Poljot / Okean chronographs but you can get them on line with either ST1901 mov'ts or the Russian 3133 mov't. All available on eBay, Amazon, even the Dreaded AliX! I bought the Murkur Panda with a higher end ST1901 with a swan neck regulator from AliX (branded as Pierre Paulin unfortunately). Paid $175USD, put it on a black and white rally strap... I really like it. A very tidy little chrono with great bang for buck. Shane from Relative Time does a great review. I hope that helps. 🤷♂️
This emotions vs numbers theory is spot on. I never realized this difference before. Very well said. According to Philippe Doufur, german watchmaking became superior in many ways the last couple of years. There are couple of historical brands with "double citizenship", such as Alpina for example. Aaaaand Jaeger LeCoultre as well in fact, to be "totally honest". Great episode.
Very informative. For myself my watch journey is, or is not unique. Growing up in Canada, not many options when I was young. We used Seikos, Caravelles, and the like. Fast forward to my first purchase. Not many automatics to choose from. I chose to try a new upstart out of japan called Citizen Eco-Drive. After 20+ years that watch was/is a beast. For serious use I used g-shocks, and destroyed a few. But for day to day watches I could not say more. I always dreamed of a Swiss or German watch. I grew up a Buddhist following the Dalai Lama, and his love of watch making also rubbed off on me. So I love the technology, no longer care the locale: globalism and the shell game of origination.... Thanks again for such rich and entertaining content. * Also: my wife now loves to watch your episodes(not going to show in the metrics). So your delivery combined with what I agree is crucial: the multifaceted perspective(read: human or authentic) on any hobby/topic. Not minimizing your very obvious passion for the creative/art aspects and not strictly commercial. This is how you can love special items, even considered vanity by some, without indulging in consumption or hedonism. Your channel is a great change from the 'single flavored' channels that abound.
I have never seen a good watch out of Germany with a swastika or an S.S. lighting bolt on the dial. I dont think the fact that Switzerland has no communist stars on the dials should be a point in it's favor
Hi Tim, Question for your q&a. Do you still own your Chronoswiss Regulateur? Am considering one, would you advise searching for an original like yours or looking at a new Regulator Classic from the current Company under the new ownership? Another option would be a Louis Erard Regulator, what are your views on them? Many thanks.
Because you talked about pre-WW2 times, I must say, IMHO, if we're talking uncomplicated watches from the '20s and '30s, you can't beat American watches in terms of value. I mean, you get these gorgeous movements with chatons and swan neck regulator and gold plated screws and gorgeous damaskening for less than 500 euros, even with importing them from the US to Europe
Only DIN is important for most German watch makers. At least this is how I explain to myself the austere und boring designs they mostly have. Of course there are exceptions but it is the reason why I only buy Swiss watches. They just have better designs in my opinion. And the Japanese suffer from offering similar designs at low to high price tiers.
Hi Tim, great points, I love them both ! Regarding your video on the Hamilton jazzmaster and Intramatic watches on the secondary market, I picked up a Hamilton jazzmaster small seconds with date at the 6 40mm with overlapping sea shells on the dail and rose gold indices and numerals along with overlapping circles for minutes and seconds kind of a art deco design 👌 and a 42mm black Intramatic ( my wrist is just shy of 71/2 ) for under $750 thank you ! I'd really be interested in a video on building a 5 watch collection (work- field- 200 ft diver -chronogragh-and dress ) all from the secondary market for under $3000 ? I think your choices would be very interesting ! Thanks again ❤
Great point on the customer service which is so so important as I've recently experienced with e.g. Vario watches (vario.sg) - meaning that if a watch is good and the brand service is great - it becomes a magnificent watch and overall value, because a nice experience adds up. But when the watch is great and the service is subpar - the watch is no longer so great I think! So two questions from me: what do you think of Vario watches? And what examples do you consider ugly German watches? I'm very curious to know. Thanks for another knowledgeable video. 👍
Great job again, nice video. Another point about German watches: they are invisible. Few sales points, barely no marketing. That's were Swiss brands are brilliant. So, is the German watch industry even in a competition? I don't think so. It's a niche industry in Germany, and sadly might just stay as it. It's music to my hears listening to a German guy saying the German watches are very often butt ugly! :) They obviously are! Q&A: are the Japanese watches under appreciated, and, if so, why? Cheers!
It's hard to find accurate pricing via websites as they vary so much for exactly the same watch, now I'm not talking about used watches but brand new ones. Why don't many watch reviewers include market prices as this is the ultimate question in pulling the trigger on a timepiece? :-\
I gave my perfectly working Swiss watch to an important watch dealer in Berlin to have a scratch in the case polished out and the Hesalit glass changed, was asked to have a full service done on it, denied that and got a watch back that was very hard to wind. I've complained, had the watch send in again, got it back and within two weeks the same problem came up again. This was the point where I started to go and leave the luxury brands and the anecdotes based marketing hype they make their money with. My perception: They don't want middle class customers anymore, the globalised world is full of rich people...
Switzerland, Germany, Japan and China are the “Big Four” in terms of watch manufacturing. Which country do you think will take “spot number 5” in the future?
Spot no. 5 is the US. In fact, it should be the 4th, because China has no horological significance, neither history of any kind. It is a cheap part factory because costs are low, that is all. (no offense to chinese people)
@@sandorpalcso1142 I mean volume has to be at least of some horological significance, right? Seagull ist the largest movement manufacturer in the world, accounting for more than 1/4 of all mechanical movements worldwide
@@JankyChris No. Volume is not horological significance. Just because you can make shitloads of butterknives in your factory, doesn't mean that you are a master swordmaker. Volume is not an aspect of watchmaking. We are talking about two completely different things.
Question: So often the Japanese are not given credit for the quality of their watches due to them having made, and continue to make inexpensive watch, This year Rolex announced it's new line of watches , same old watches just different sizes and colors. At the same time Grand Seiko came out with the TO constant force Tourbillion concept. The future of watch making is in Japan, but still they don't receive the respect............. Could it be the watch community is harbouring some latent racism?
@ALEX VAN ZANDT Ok lets remove the word racist and insert “implicit bias” that is a less charged phrase. Don’t you ever wonder why reviews of Grand Seiko seen to start out with “under appreciated” “under valued” “over looked” when clearly they are equal to the Swiss in finishing and superior in development and technology. There is some underlying cause for this. Clearly you were not swayed by this, so good for you, that Spring Drive is a masterpiece.
@ALEX VAN ZANDT First let me say I appreciate the civil discourse we are having that is a rare thing these days. I do want to clarify that I never meant to infer that racism is rampant in the watch collecting world.I would say that the opposite is a true reflection of the hobby. My intent was to start a discussion as to why Grand Seiko is discussed the way they are. We are human so implicit bias is a part of who we are, it most likely helped our ancient ancestors survive. I do not go looking for racism everywhere, as a 64 year old white male I have to defend myself regularly against unfounded claims of racism That come with the work I do. That is also why I am willing to discuss this subject. So lets agree to disagree on this subject, as you have given me time to listen and things to ponder, When I set down after work today I will lift a glass of Guiness to my friend Alex and wish you long life and happiness.
For the Q&A: any recommendation for a mechanical watch with a pulsometer scale? I'm in love with Omega CK2998, but 6000€ is a bit too much for my pocket...Longines pulsometer mono-pusher looks gorgeous too, other ideas?
Thanks again for a fantastic video Tim ! I've learned so much from your channel which ultimately helped with the purchase of my first luxury watch (Frederique Constant Runabout GMT). Can you explore Italian watch makers for your next video? It's a topic that not many people discuss and it would be interesting to know about the history. Even naming some past/present watch makers would be cool to see! Thanks again and all the best!
Question: do exotic (and expensive) movement complications like Tourbillions, Fusee & Chain, or Remontoirs actually have any significant effect on timekeeping accuracy? As an aside I'd note that in my experience the more expensive the watch the less accurate it seems to be. I have a sub $1K ETA 2893-2 based watch running inside COSC, but my $50K Lange is still out by several minutes a day, despite multiple trips to the Lange service centre 😒
The best moment in my watch -collecting journey, was when I realised that it doesn't have to have 'Swiss Made' on the dial, to be a interesting watch, and a worthwhile buy. I've become increasingly interested in Russian/Soviet watches over the last four or five years - and have bought a couple which I think will always be keepers! - so how about it Tim?, a video dedicated to Russian/Soviet watchmaking.🤞
"Just like Apple I think". A very astute observation there Tim. Some people are so hung up on brand "snobbery", they fail to see poor value in some objects.
Absolutely correct.
My 14 y.o. daughter has been so thoroughly brainwashed by Apples marketing that she won't even consider another brand.
Each month she spends a substantial % of her pocket money on paying the difference between what I pay for her sisters Samsung and the iPhone price, and with every software update her phone gets slower and has reduced app. compatibility. So she complains about needing a new phone whilst her sisters faster, cheaper & better Samsung costs her nothing!
It's madness - and a lesson that she needs learn.
Watch guys are the most obsessed with "brand" of any hobbyists I've ever seen. Swiss watches are unequivocally NOT "the best" and overpriced for what features you get for the money but internet watch _idiot_ savants wholeheartedly believe they are the greatest thing going today.
I recently got a Lange 1815. What can I say? Respect to the Germans 🇩🇪
Did you go for the rose or wg?
Still a Swiss Movement
Very informative video, thank you 🙏
This Brit chose German and would choose German again.
Berufsziel Diktator einer Uhrenrepublik? ;) Und ja, ich sehe es auch so: einige deutsche Uhren sind absolut hässlich. Das liegt auch am Fokus auf die technischen Daten, Uhrwerk und Funktionen. Da spielt das Design eine untergeordnete Rolle. Produktion für die Zielgruppe Technikfreaks. Viele deutsche Hersteller, die das Design zumindest nicht komplett an den Sohn des Firmenbesitzers abgeben wollen, setzen dann auf Bauhaus. Ohne Bauhaus wäre es dann eine komplett Katastrophe.
Hi CB Tim.
Firstly, I absolutely ᴀᴅᴏʀᴇ your little Dubey & Schaldenbrand.
It is such a dignified & masculine timepiece. I'm surprised that in todays ᴠɪɴᴛᴀɢᴇ = ɢᴏᴏᴅ (which it mostly does!) market that established brands are not using similar designs more often.
Re. the Q&A:
As a 'creative' I would be very surprised if you have never day-dreamed about designing a watch yourself.
Are you able (and willing!) to share with us how a watch designed by Caseback Tim might look and function?
Thank-you Tim and good health to you and your loved ones.
Anthony.
Since you mentioned Japan, it seems that both Seiko and Citizen are capable of producing fantastic watches, with some real passion for quality...design, maybe a different thing, but Seiko seems to succeed.
And let's not forget Orient!
I took delivery of a 2020 version of the Seiko Alpinist a little over a month ago.
I loved the watch (the cream and gilt dialled variant with the green leather strap - the SPD123J) the minute I saw it.
Unfortunately I was influenced by those in the community who were outraged by the price increase and didn't immediately pick one up. Anyway, long story short, after depriving myself of the piece for months, I stumbled across a sale and grabbed one for $700AUD ($425USD give or take) from an online AD, BNIB and with the full Seiko international warranty.
It's a ғᴀɴᴛᴀsᴛɪᴄ watch. The overall quality, the case finishing ᴀɴᴅ the mov't easily equals any Swiss piece I've paid similar money for.
I purchased an after market jubilee bracelet for it too, which will only elevate it more.
I love my Seiko SNZH-57J (55 Fathoms) and my quartz 'mini Flightmaster' chronograph (SND253P), but it's the burgeoning mid range Seikos in the +/- $750USD price range that are really taking the entry level European brands on in that high quality / low cost market sector these days.
So I could not agree with your comment more.
Cheers.
A.
@@lucafwn
I can't speak from experience because I've never owned one (I do like some of the offerings in the Bambino line, but I have no real use for an everyday dress watch) but Orient seem to be absolutely killing it in the entry level diver market ATM, as well as offering some solid field watches.
They really seem to have gathered up many of the disgruntled Seiko lovers in the last few years, and good on them.
✌🏼️
Anthony.
@@IDKline
So true mate.
In fact I was thinking the same thing (minus the obvious Rolex / Tudor analogy) as I wrote out the above.
Cheers bud.
Great video. Had a personal guided tour through the Lange factory and was reallly blown away by the whole factory and attention to detail, so I think German watchmaking is really on the same or maybe even on a better level in attention to detail and quality compared to Swiss watchmaking.
My question: What are your 3 favorite swiss watches under 600€?
Best regards and keep up the good work.:)
A tour through ALS? Wow. I am envious.
THE outstanding High Horology brand of the 21st Century IMO.
Personally i'm totally crazy about German watches, mainly Glashütte Original and A. Lange & Söhne, their watch movements are a pure piece of art which i, compared to with Swiss watches, feel a deeper appreciation for.
I'm glad i found your channel.
Comment # 2
The Swiss V's German question is a good one.
I was surprised to recently learn that German law regarding what may be labelled as ᴍᴀᴅᴇ ɪɴ ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴʏ is very similar to the Swiss law.
As you said in your upload on the topic, the sᴡɪss ᴍᴀᴅᴇ branding (it is, IMO, branding) is more accurately described by the term sᴡɪss ᴍᴏᴠ’ᴛ & ᴀssᴇᴍʙʟʏ and I was surprised to discover that a similar term can be used to describe ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴ ᴍᴀᴅᴇ watches, though I'm not sure why I'm surprised, it's all marketing in the end...
Personally, I don't have an issue with the laws that govern what can & cannot be labelled as swiss / ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴ ᴍᴀᴅᴇ. As long as the quality doesn't suffer I'm happy to have my bracelets, watch cases, crystals and who knows what else produced in Asia if it (a) allows entry level established European brands to remain competitive and (b) reduces the cost of the watches I buy.
Like most enthusiasts I own timepieces from all around the globe. I enjoy my cheap Seagulls, San Martins & Vostoks as much as I enjoy my more pricey Swiss and Japanese watches. However, in my experience (which ɪs somewhat ʟɪᴍɪᴛᴇᴅ), nobody beats the Swiss at the production of high volume, entry level movement manufacture. The Japanese come close to matching ETA & Seliitta with mov'ts like Seikos 6R35. And when housed in an appropriate case, Miyotas 9 series mov'ts can be an excellent 3rd party mov't. One could even argue that the cheap & cheerful NH35 is all the mov't one really ɴᴇᴇᴅs in an everyday wearer... If you follow my meaning?
With all that said, I'll repeat: nobody tops the Swiss at high volume, good quality entry level mov'ts.
I'm not a fan of this industry wide push toward ɪɴ ʜᴏᴜsᴇ mov'ts. That just sounds like me sending my timepiece across the world & back to pay twice the amount for a service from someone I don't know and have no way of communicating with. I don't like that at all.
And lastly, some thoughts on ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴ watches: as an Australian I will take more interest in a ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴ watch than a sᴡɪss watch. I see sᴡɪss watches every day!, whilst I rarely see a ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴ watch in the wild. I also think that the ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴ watch industry punches far above its weight in genuine history and design. Whether it be in distinctive military design, Bauhaus minimalism or high horology.
When people talk of the 'Holy Trinity' I'm thinking 'what've you done for me lately'? LBecause to my eyes ɢᴇʀᴍᴀɴʏs A. Langë & Sohne have been - without question - ᴛʜᴇ premier watchmakers of the 21st Century thus far!
Wow! That's a L O N G rant. But I mean every word of it!
Cheers,
Anthony.
TL/DR: Australian nobody pontificates about the state of the watch industry despite not knowing much about the watch industry. 😶
Why do you say that entry level "Swiss" movements are better than Japanese movements?
I have several watches and found in my (limited and anecdotal) experience that Swiss movements are less reliable than Japanese movements. My watch that keeps the worst time has a Sellita SW200 movement and the quartz with the worst registration I've ever experienced was an ETA. I wore very cheap/free analog watches in high school that did a better job hitting the marks than this watch did. Sent that one back to the manufacturer for a replacement that merely acceptably ticked off the mark. For me, it's not worth the upcharge for stuff made in Asia and then stamped "Swiss Made."
@@Mister_Phafanapolis
Great question mate.
And sorry for the late response. I remember seeing the comment ages ago when I didn't have time to respond then must've forgot. Strap in mate. This may take a while... 🙂
So. I doubt my experience would be any more significant than yours, I may be less experienced!
I can't speak to Swiss quartz - never owned one. But I do think that Japan is the king of quartz precision. My Bulova Lunar Pilot is like a freakin' atomic clock! I have changed the time 3X in the 18ish months I've owned it - all for Daylight Saving and it's always been around 1 sec. off...if that.
Mechanically - my best quality mov't is the Selitta 330 in my Glycine Airman. The crown feel is sooo buttery, the action of restarting the mov't after time setting is like actuating a high end chrono pusher... I have the ETA equivalent, an elaboré grade 2893/2 in a Steinhart GMT, a great mov't again buttery crown action again but without the 'finesse' when restarting the hacked mov't. Same for my hand wound Hammy mov't and 2824-2 variants.
I have a heap of NH35's and I really like them, one Miyota 90s5 which I like more and the Seiko 6R35, which I really rate.
My issue with Japanese entry level mov'ts is the gritty crown action. This grittyness is the result of less precise engineering. The better engineered the various cogs and wheels etc., the less 'grinding' - which is what that grittyness is, or perhaps it's the result of a poorly lubricated mov't, or possibly both? - either way, it all falls under the 'quality' umbrella...and I will emphasise that I have good & better NH35 's. Whereas I can't say that about my ETA'S (granted, I haven't handled as many...).
As far as accuracy goes, a 1 example of a number of different mov'ts isn't going to tell us much - and they can always be regulated. But in my experience, my entry level Swiss mov'ts keep more consistent time. If I get one running at +10, it'll run at +10. Always. On or off the wrist, straight out of the box or in 12mths time (unless I drop it or smash it on a door frame!). My Seiko's and my Miyota vary a bit. The Miyota less, but still it runs fast by about 8spd on wrist and slows down to + 1-3 off wrist and all my Seiko's - including the 6R35 run fast off the wrist and more accurate on the wrist. My 6R35 has gone from a steady +4ish (from memory) to a steady -5/7ish in 3 months.
But again, my point is more about fluctuation than exact s.p.d accuracy.
They're the reasons why I said what I said.
All the experiential based 'knowledge' + a few conversations with my (disinterested and mumbling grumpy old) watchmaker!
I'm far from an expert mate. Only been in the hobby 5 yrs or so, so the comment is ᴘᴜʀᴇʟʏ opinion based.
Cheers bud. I hope my rambling makes sense.
A.
I have a massive soft spot for German watches ❤️ I’d take a GO, Lange, Lang & Heyne, and/or Moritz Grossman over any one of their Swiss counterparts 10 times out of 10
Excellent stuff. good points well made. and Mein Gott that JLC Memovox invoice - sure you would buy half a dozen vintage ones for that price.
Thank you for pointing out that a lot of German watches are extremely ugly! This is in fact the reason I am turned of by most of them! Especially the Bauhaus ones!
Nice video as always. A question for yout next Q & A (or maybe not, it's a little offtopic): I like very much the way you dress: will you consider expand yor channel to men's style advice? Or perhaps a second channel?
I disagree regarding the Junghans Max Bill versus Longines Flagship Heritage comparison. If anything, the Max Bill holds up as a design to this very moment. The Flagship really has resigned to a smaller space in contemporary design, one of nostalgia and not forward looking when compared with the popularity of the mid-century design clarity fostered by Herr Bill. Would Apple, IKEA, Swatch have their sleek looks without the Mid Century Modern design school? Add onto that the fact that Max Bill himself is a true legend in terms of Swiss Mid Century design, and therefore we are talking about a watch with true Swiss pedigree regardless of where the device was made.
So I feel I must now ask, genuinely: Who designed the Flagship? Perhaps you already know. I had a look on Longine's website, which makes it clear that this is a tribute to their history, although somehow no designer is mentioned. I would assume it was a great designer for it is a long lasting design. It is unfortunate that their legacy is not mentioned or even attributed. To me, I see that the Heritage is looking back with nostalgia on the days when Longines had influence.
Not everyone likes modern art, but the sweeping influence Max Bill had globally is still undeniable. Everything the most popular furniture and cell phones to typefaces and watches are touched by Mid Century Modern, a school of design which he helped spread. I conclude that the legacy of the Junghans Max Bill is a real Swiss design phenomenon, far greater than the Longines Heritage. Perhaps it was made in Germany, but for example: do we say that the Apple computers are a Chinese, or FOXCONN design? My opinion is no. Maybe another comparison would have been more convincing here, but I feel you are open to discussion so this is my comment.
Steinhart is a great example of swiss-german watchmaking, but you guys are not ready for that conversation... 🤓
I'm not sure, but I assume your 'you guys are not ready...' comment refers to Steinharts reputation as an homage brand?
I like what Steinhart does and I think that there is room for a Steinhart in most collections.
They offer fantastic value and who doesn't want just a little piece of truly unobtainable watch design on their wrist every now and then? Their case design is exquisite also, something that many neglect to acknowledge whilst they talk about this hobbies most circular conversation : to homage or not to homage!
I prefer German brands!
Another great video Tim, thank you.
A question for your Q&A: Which complications do you favour and which ones are irrelevant?
As Christmas is on the horizon, what VERY affordable watch might you buy for a young relative who has never owned a watch before?
Parameters:
1) Unisex
2) Under €200
3) suitable for a variety of situations
though not necessarily for swimming.
4) mechanical or quartz.
I've given up on my son, he has no interest in watches. He's 24 and has a cheap quartz 32mm Calvin Klein that has seen better days. Someone gave it to him and he hardly ever wears it anyway.
Naturally, as a watch fiend, I sometimes feel like disowning him but at least he doesn't ask to borrow mine (he's notoriously treats his things badly, with the exception of his vintage Epiphone Les Paul).
He's laughing as I write this. :)
Stimulating show as usual (I admire the get so many things done!).
You can start by checking out the new Timex quartz watches. All are under 200.00. Go to Marc's website, Long Island Watch. He also has many other brands under 200.00.
@@mgb1971
Err, I don't think so. I picked up a secondhand Timex Navi harbor for peanuts (€20) in mint condition with box and everything to use as a time reference for my mechanicals.
I have to say it was probably the poorest watch in terms of finish I've ever owned.
My first ever watch was a Timex as a kid in 1962 so I'm not being biased.
The gloves are off lol.
I’m biased as I really like watches by IWC.
No comunist stars on swiss watches? For sure there is a zenith with a red star ;) especially in western cantons of Switzerland such as Jura comunism does not have such a bad stigma.
Grüsse aus zürich
Glashütte Original is my favorite brand.
Just waiting for them to get thier movements into smaller cases
Mine is NOMOS
Reviewing g various videos showcasing watch brands , the Swiss win as industrial scale giants. But you pay premiums due to their research and development (Rolex), their marketing campaigns ((Rolex, Omega, etc), and e st specially their extreme testing and validation. Process (Rolex). So yes, the huge team requires their cut for support. But hey , excellent quality right? Stratospheric price too ,eh? Eh ?
Germany, from my viewership of videos tends to be smaller and they will use trend andvtrye up to date tools and manufactiring techniques, standard validation processes, smaller network. But they lean more towards handcrafted (Dornbluth and son) though they too have leaner modern fabrication (Steinhart, Lsco, Stowa, etc). Steinhart does their own internet marketing and so they eliminate costs and prices of their time pieces are very competitive.
In the end. Do you buy a watch to keep locked away for you to pay homage to it every once in a while? Or do you give it some wrist time for everyday mundane use or to prodding through nature adventures ?
Seiko, Citizem and now Orient are nipping at the heels of their European counterparts and offer great value: quality and price. Clever product placing on the movies sell the watches for them.
Service costs? Astronomical! My Breitling Blackbird began stopping for no apparent reason. Took it to a Breitling AD, who sent it to Switzerland for service. Breitling came back with an estimate for repair in excess of $2,000 ( including a crystal replacement). I declined the crystal replacement and had the remainder of the services performed to the cost of $1,600+. The crystal was fine, as it was when i sent it in. About a year later it began stopping again. I think the automatic works are not winding the watch as it will run from a full wind and then quit! Not happy!
German watch making is amazing.... huge sinn fan but starting to discover Glashutte which is just amazing. For me Swiss for divers German for aviation... BTW ugly German watch rant very funny! 🤣🤣🤣 I love how the Germans don't care though they just wanna make technically awesome watches!
I forgot to mention Russian made watches.
Their movements are blamd as hell or can be above that , but they are done quite well with very long stretches between maintemance. The designs are clever (Vostok) as they wanted to avoid the pricey swiss made manufacturing and Design overkill approach. Reputation? The feeling of pure industrial grade...but that is just the rep. They do make gorgeous watches at very low prices. But get them from Russia. I bought Ukraine made watches and got what I deserved.
Two comments, one question, to some extent related:
1. When I think past brands to German and Swiss national identity, which is the crux of your video, my instant thought is that I expect a German manufacturer to be transparent, and the Swiss manufacturer to be opaque. Tout de watchverse talks about Rolex restricting their supply or buying up examples, for instance. There is no EU accountability. German manufacturers are German companies, and they have German levels of corporate accountability. This isn't to say that there aren't German corporate scandals, but when there are, German business can be counted on to react in certain ways.
2. Ethics, sustainability and governance are very important to the Germans I work with. They view these as part of a *strong* relationship between brand and ethics, because the customer wants to associate with a certain ethical message. It is widely thought among European business leaders that this will be very important in the years to come. We have seen to *some* extent that Swiss watchmakers are willing to take steps to open up about their ethics and sustainability.
3. So my question: What will the future narratives in watchmaking be? Can myths like 'in-house' survive? As Richemont, for instance, builds movements centrally with brand customisation on a large scale; will they pretend that this is different from Swatch Group or Seiko doing the same? What will we say about a watch in 2025?
Thanks for another great video, and I look forward to seeing the perfect ushanka. I remember the Russian officers' caps I saw in Kosovo with their lush astrakhan fur: keep an eye on astrakhan/Persian lamb. Sewing it is so much easier than mink or sable or fisher pelts.
Great comment.
Much to consider here.
Answer : Germany 🥰
Reason : Composition and balance of (ok not all of) their watches.
Enjoying your channel! Just ordered a Junkers Cockpit 9.14.01.12, very nice German watch :-)
LOL I have to agree about the ugliness of some German watch designs, especially highly utilitarian divers and certain "modern" aviation designs. I'm not naming names. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or start an argument. In fairness, though, there are German designs though that combine utility and elegance in a tremendously appealing way, whether traditional or modern in concept, and then there are also designs so beautiful, so beautifully crafted and so expensive I couldn't bear to put them on.
As a matter of fact, regions does not mean much today. Seiko alone can give you outstanding quality at any price level; the other main Japanese companies offer good low-to mid tier watches too, and you can even get good watches from China, if you are ready to pay something more than peanuts - but as the happy owner of two SeaGull 1963, you already know that!
Speaking of Far East: ever owned, or had any direct experience with, an Orient Star or a Grand Seiko? What's your opinion about "upper tier" Japanese watches?
if you haven't done a video on it before i'd like to hear your unfiltered opinion(s) on Hamilton Ventura.
I ʟᴏᴠᴇ the ᴠᴇɴᴛᴜʀᴀ!
There is a beautiful Ltd. Edition salmon dial version on sale on eBay at the moment...
Such an excellent and informative presentation on this topic.
You truly have a wonderful way of describing things.
I enjoyed viewing and learning much from this video compared to some of the other watch channels that I'm subscribed too.
I most certainly will look forward to watching the next presentation. 💛
That JLC story is crazy. You'd think the "watchmaker's watchmaker" would employ competent watchmakers for their service department.
Question, maybe a silly one, but forgive me as I am American and my knowledge of Europe is not deep. My understanding is that there's a French part of Switzerland and a German part, and that Geneva is in the French part. Are there watch brands located in the German part? Is their product more "german"?
With the arse falling out of the luxury watch trade to China and the Chinese can produce copy watches that are better than the originals, the Swiss should get their game together or Germany, France, Britain, America as well as some of the smaller watch assembly countries will take trade off them.
Q&A: Are Braun Buffel leather products quality stuff? Thanks. Stay safe and good luck.
Leaning towards Germany, these days! The Swiss are just, too greedy...like me 😜
Meine Frage an dich und den Kanal, Tim: Independent vs. Marken, die Teil von großen Gruppen sind wie Richemont, LVMH und Swatch. Sollte man diesen Faktor beim Uhrenkauf berücksichtigen? Sind Independents grundsätzlich wertstabiler und haben mehr "Seele", oder gibt es auch Vorteile für Marken, die sich keine Sorgen um Liquidität bei der Wahl ihrer Zulieferer machen müssen?
Thank you for the video. Have a great day.
Liked and Sub'd.
Thanks for the subscription!
I am interested in Dugena's watches. They have made some bad looking and some nice pieces in my humble opinion.
Thanks for your talk.
Con for Germany: often very loud dial colours. Pro for germany: often small brands releasing real value propositions: Guinand, Archimede. I prefer German
Germany watchmaking is underrated.
This is true - although one increasingly hears serious watch collectors here in the UK (and in America) saying German watchmaking is now the best in the world.
Question for a future video: why do modern manufacturers -- micro and macro -- build watches with ghost dates? Why do big manufacturers still sell pocket watch movements and small seconds movements and other oddball artefacts that service small market niches, while apparently making it hard to source small numbers of three-hand-only movements? What are the commercial realities of manufacturing and buying movements in a modern fast-fabrication world?
Big question, but really interesting, thanks. I'll give that a thought.
Well done Tim, finally you got it right Seiko pronounced correctly ha ha ha. Yet another enjoyable video which I totally agree with your thoughts and opinion on in every respect. I always look forward to my weekly fix from you.
Thank you for an insightful and interesting review. Brand value is something that all brand owners are trying to build (hopefully), but it's perhaps the hardest part of the work
Which ones are you reffering to when mentioning the ugly german watches?
Con number 3 for German watches is spot on.
I like German design in general, every microbrand hired an Italian designer for their models, I personally don't like it.
Very true.
Micro brands need to mature beyond the 'safety' of the rotating bezel.
Tudor, Orient, Seiko, Rolex, Laco, Stowa and especially Sinn have ᴀʟʟ had huge success with rotating bezel-less sports watches in recent times.
Time Factors and Damasko are the only Micros (that come to mind) who have joined that party...
@@anthonysmith2982 Don't forget Lorier with their Falcon! Really cool watch IMHO
WELL Done....
Tim, I have to agree servicing Swiss timepieces is pure extortion and I recall getting my Heuer back from service only for the crown to fall off and saying goodbye to it for another month or so while they installed a new crown. So much for Swiss QC!
Just got an Ophion Velos with salmon dial.Very happy with it .Company based in Spain but sources parts from both countries and honestly declare 70% Swiss 30% German on the case back.It is an interesting way of providing enthusiasts a quality piece at reasonable cost.Miguel the founder finds time to engage with his customers.Well worth a look.
Have you watched The Queens Gambit on Netflix yet? (since you were discussing lockdowns and netflix) If not, definitely do so. It is excellent.
Always enjoy your videos Tim 👌 what is your favorite watch ?
What do you think of Serica watches?
Especially the new version of the WWW. Thx!
Keep up the good work
I very much want a cheap mechanical chrono, and I love the look of the 1963. But, I do not want the Chinese Communist Party Star on my wrist. Tim, is there a watch you will not wear because of politics?
I feel you man. Such a nice movement those Seagulls have, I think the Venus 175 is one of the most beautiful mass-market movements ever made. But the communist imagery just ruins it for me, especially being an Eastern European. I even contemplated buying one just for the movement, but I wouldn't wear it
Look at Merkur watches.
They have a typical 60's 'design by parts catalogue looking racing Chronograph (Panda dial). Around $200USD or less.
I don't know how you feel about Strela / Poljot / Okean chronographs but you can get them on line with either ST1901 mov'ts or the Russian 3133 mov't.
All available on eBay, Amazon, even the Dreaded AliX!
I bought the Murkur Panda with a higher end ST1901 with a swan neck regulator from AliX (branded as Pierre Paulin unfortunately). Paid $175USD, put it on a black and white rally strap... I really like it. A very tidy little chrono with great bang for buck.
Shane from Relative Time does a great review.
I hope that helps. 🤷♂️
Make the hat - wear the hat - reviewing Vostoc's.
#VostokWatches
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#VostokEuropeWatches
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#VostokSSN571
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I do enjoy seeing the Matterhorn.
This emotions vs numbers theory is spot on. I never realized this difference before. Very well said. According to Philippe Doufur, german watchmaking became superior in many ways the last couple of years.
There are couple of historical brands with "double citizenship", such as Alpina for example. Aaaaand Jaeger LeCoultre as well in fact, to be "totally honest". Great episode.
Very informative. For myself my watch journey is, or is not unique. Growing up in Canada, not many options when I was young. We used Seikos, Caravelles, and the like. Fast forward to my first purchase. Not many automatics to choose from. I chose to try a new upstart out of japan called Citizen Eco-Drive. After 20+ years that watch was/is a beast. For serious use I used g-shocks, and destroyed a few. But for day to day watches I could not say more. I always dreamed of a Swiss or German watch. I grew up a Buddhist following the Dalai Lama, and his love of watch making also rubbed off on me. So I love the technology, no longer care the locale: globalism and the shell game of origination.... Thanks again for such rich and entertaining content. * Also: my wife now loves to watch your episodes(not going to show in the metrics). So your delivery combined with what I agree is crucial: the multifaceted perspective(read: human or authentic) on any hobby/topic. Not minimizing your very obvious passion for the creative/art aspects and not strictly commercial. This is how you can love special items, even considered vanity by some, without indulging in consumption or hedonism. Your channel is a great change from the 'single flavored' channels that abound.
Thank you for the kind comment. I really appreciate such supportive words.
I have never seen a good watch out of Germany with a swastika or an S.S. lighting bolt on the dial. I dont think the fact that Switzerland has no communist stars on the dials should be a point in it's favor
its easy. swiss is better!
Hi Tim,
Question for your q&a.
Do you still own your Chronoswiss Regulateur?
Am considering one, would you advise searching for an original like yours or looking at a new Regulator Classic from the current Company under the new ownership?
Another option would be a Louis Erard Regulator, what are your views on them?
Many thanks.
Because you talked about pre-WW2 times, I must say, IMHO, if we're talking uncomplicated watches from the '20s and '30s, you can't beat American watches in terms of value. I mean, you get these gorgeous movements with chatons and swan neck regulator and gold plated screws and gorgeous damaskening for less than 500 euros, even with importing them from the US to Europe
Only DIN is important for most German watch makers. At least this is how I explain to myself the austere und boring designs they mostly have. Of course there are exceptions but it is the reason why I only buy Swiss watches. They just have better designs in my opinion. And the Japanese suffer from offering similar designs at low to high price tiers.
Hi Tim, great points, I love them both !
Regarding your video on the Hamilton jazzmaster and Intramatic watches on the secondary market, I picked up a Hamilton jazzmaster small seconds with date at the 6 40mm with overlapping sea shells on the dail and rose gold indices and numerals along with overlapping circles for minutes and seconds kind of a art deco design 👌 and a 42mm black Intramatic ( my wrist is just shy of 71/2 ) for under $750 thank you !
I'd really be interested in a video on building a 5 watch collection (work- field- 200 ft diver -chronogragh-and dress ) all from the secondary market for under
$3000 ? I think your choices would be very interesting ! Thanks again ❤
Great point on the customer service which is so so important as I've recently experienced with e.g. Vario watches (vario.sg) - meaning that if a watch is good and the brand service is great - it becomes a magnificent watch and overall value, because a nice experience adds up. But when the watch is great and the service is subpar - the watch is no longer so great I think! So two questions from me: what do you think of Vario watches? And what examples do you consider ugly German watches? I'm very curious to know. Thanks for another knowledgeable video. 👍
Great job again, nice video.
Another point about German watches: they are invisible. Few sales points, barely no marketing. That's were Swiss brands are brilliant. So, is the German watch industry even in a competition? I don't think so. It's a niche industry in Germany, and sadly might just stay as it.
It's music to my hears listening to a German guy saying the German watches are very often butt ugly! :) They obviously are!
Q&A: are the Japanese watches under appreciated, and, if so, why? Cheers!
German Watch is cheaper than Swiss Watch
It's hard to find accurate pricing via websites as they vary so much for exactly the same watch, now I'm not talking about used watches but brand new ones. Why don't many watch reviewers include market prices as this is the ultimate question in pulling the trigger on a timepiece? :-\
I gave my perfectly working Swiss watch to an important watch dealer in Berlin to have a scratch in the case polished out and the Hesalit glass changed, was asked to have a full service done on it, denied that and got a watch back that was very hard to wind. I've complained, had the watch send in again, got it back and within two weeks the same problem came up again.
This was the point where I started to go and leave the luxury brands and the anecdotes based marketing hype they make their money with.
My perception: They don't want middle class customers anymore, the globalised world is full of rich people...
Damasko have just released a new in house movement, the A26, in their DS30 line. I have ordered one but very little about it on the interweb.
Sehr interressant. Grüße aus Kanada.
Ha yes! 'Nerdy smell' is the perfect way to describe so many watch brands (not just German).
i’ve been becoming more interested in watches lately, and i do feel german watches are under-rated
Switzerland, Germany, Japan and China are the “Big Four” in terms of watch manufacturing. Which country do you think will take “spot number 5” in the future?
Spot no. 5 is the US. In fact, it should be the 4th, because China has no horological significance, neither history of any kind. It is a cheap part factory because costs are low, that is all. (no offense to chinese people)
Russian watch(vostok)
@@sandorpalcso1142 I mean volume has to be at least of some horological significance, right? Seagull ist the largest movement manufacturer in the world, accounting for more than 1/4 of all mechanical movements worldwide
@@JankyChris No. Volume is not horological significance. Just because you can make shitloads of butterknives in your factory, doesn't mean that you are a master swordmaker. Volume is not an aspect of watchmaking. We are talking about two completely different things.
Gold Vs platinum as an investment!!
would you like to do a video on japanese watches ? or for that matter on an established watch company outside germany or switzerland ?
Yes, definetely. I'm not really an expert when it comes to Japanese watches but I'd love to learn more especially bout Grand Seiko.
Question:
So often the Japanese are not given credit for the quality of their watches due to them having made, and continue to make inexpensive watch, This year Rolex announced it's new line of watches , same old watches just different sizes and colors. At the same time Grand Seiko came out with the TO constant force Tourbillion concept.
The future of watch making is in Japan, but still they don't receive the respect.............
Could it be the watch community is harbouring some latent racism?
@ALEX VAN ZANDT Ok lets remove the word racist and insert “implicit bias” that is a less charged phrase. Don’t you ever wonder why reviews of Grand Seiko seen to start out with “under appreciated” “under valued” “over looked” when clearly they are equal to the Swiss in finishing and superior in development and technology. There is some underlying cause for this. Clearly you were not swayed by this, so good for you, that Spring Drive is a masterpiece.
@ALEX VAN ZANDT First let me say I appreciate the civil discourse we are having that is a rare thing these days. I do want to clarify that I never meant to infer that racism is rampant in the watch collecting world.I would say that the opposite is a true reflection of the hobby. My intent was to start a discussion as to why Grand Seiko is discussed the way they are. We are human so implicit bias is a part of who we are, it most likely helped our ancient ancestors survive. I do not go looking for racism everywhere, as a 64 year old white male I have to defend myself regularly against unfounded claims of racism That come with the work I do. That is also why I am willing to discuss this subject. So lets agree to disagree on this subject, as you have given me time to listen and things to ponder, When I set down after work today I will lift a glass of Guiness to my friend Alex and wish you long life and happiness.
Maybe you will not find swiss watch with red star communist star but you can find one with the ss runes...
Straight from the factory?
@@CasebackWatches Honestly no idea
Tim, Thanks for the comparison. Great video 👍
Thank you.
For the Q&A: any recommendation for a mechanical watch with a pulsometer scale? I'm in love with Omega CK2998, but 6000€ is a bit too much for my pocket...Longines pulsometer mono-pusher looks gorgeous too, other ideas?
The new Vario Medic
Also the Archimede Doctor, great looking watch
Thanks again for a fantastic video Tim ! I've learned so much from your channel which ultimately helped with the purchase of my first luxury watch (Frederique Constant Runabout GMT). Can you explore Italian watch makers for your next video? It's a topic that not many people discuss and it would be interesting to know about the history. Even naming some past/present watch makers would be cool to see! Thanks again and all the best!
Thanks, I will give that a thought!
Max Bill was Swiss!
Ah, damn, you're right. That's really worth mentioning. But I think his most influential work he did in a German university. Braunschweig?
Ima li koga sa ovih prostora da prati ovog čovjeka?
?
@@CasebackWatches That was Serbain. I asked if there's anyone from ex Yugoslavia to follow your channel. :)
Question: do exotic (and expensive) movement complications like Tourbillions, Fusee & Chain, or Remontoirs actually have any significant effect on timekeeping accuracy?
As an aside I'd note that in my experience the more expensive the watch the less accurate it seems to be. I have a sub $1K ETA 2893-2 based watch running inside COSC, but my $50K Lange is still out by several minutes a day, despite multiple trips to the Lange service centre 😒
Russian.
The best moment in my watch -collecting journey, was when I realised that it doesn't have to have 'Swiss Made' on the dial, to be a interesting watch, and a worthwhile buy.
I've become increasingly interested in Russian/Soviet watches over the last four or five years - and have bought a couple which I think will always be keepers! - so how about it Tim?, a video dedicated to Russian/Soviet watchmaking.🤞