Some enthusiasts observe that Swiss dial designs generally feel "soft" and delicate - feminine is a word I've heard/read a few times - but are second to none in elegance and beauty. For watches with many subdials they do tend to look crowded. German dials supposedly use a lot of hard angles and fonts, and minimalist layouts. However, they don't look boring - maybe sterile for some - but the resulting aesthetic works in its own unique way. By the way, Germans seem hardwired to over-engineer. Whether it's designing a tank, a car, or a wristwatch, apparently they just can't help it. ::)
As a general gloss, Gilberto, you may have a point, but when you look at the works of Marco Lang and some of the A. Lange & Söhne pieces, the unparalleled beauty is in the movement ... not the gearing but the layout of the delicate bridges and gold chantons nesting the jewels... hard to beat for delicacy especially compared to the Mack truck like bulldozers that make up most of the Rolex and Omega watches. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Hi Bill! At these levels both countries do superb watch, I couldn’t decide which is better or nicer. It remains a personal choice more than anything. Very good topic & very good choices, this will leave me wondering for a long time🤔 All the best, John
Hi Bill, The three-quarter plate is a key difference between Glashuette and Swiss watchmaking, it is the most obvious difference in movement construction. The three-quarter plate is what holds the gear train and spring barrel, wich contains the mainspring, and while some Swiss watchmakers (such as Jaeger-LeCoultre) also use it, they tend to favour a bridge constructiondesign that offers aesthetical advantages and supports seperate mechanisms making it easier for the watchmaker to service the watch without having to disassemble it. A plate construction makes all the mechanisms sturdier! Other differations include a swan neck-shaped steel spring used for fine regulation, the use of Cote de Glashuette decoration on the plates (wich are engraved freehand and wider than Cotes de Geneve), and the use of screw-mounted chatons on the three-quarter plate to hold the rubies put in place at friction points within the mechanism to reduce wear. That latter practice not only requires a skilled hand to plsce the jewel within the chaton and then the chaton within the platewich is also very labour intensive as holes have to be drilled on the plate for each chaton and the chaton is held by two or three blued screws, an additional hand-made minute detail that requires expertise and time. Nothwithstaning this, it is awatchmaking tradition most Glashuette brands continue to this day, and is appreciated by watch lovers for enhancing the aesthetic appearance of a movement. By the early 1900s, Glashuette watches were in such demand that owning one was considered a status symbol and watchmakers in other countries started putting the name of the town on their dials, prompting Glashuette-based brands to register the phrase Orginal Glashuette and put this on their dials to distinquish them.
I like the "no-quarter plate," O Bud, like the trigonal bridge in the Lang & Heyne Caliber VI. You're right, though, about the 3/4 bridge developed originally in Glashütte ... primarily for production purposes, but now so you can see more of the movement. Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
I don't usually go for busy watch dials, but the JLC Geographic is more subtle than most. Love the VC Patrimony. Mine would have the date complication, and white gold. That's assuming I could afford one.😊
Good morning Bill, have you noticed that the Glashuette Original "Senator Cosmopolite" (see the video at 08:00) is one rare example of "Daylight Saving Time" complication ? (I addressed this topic in the comments of one of your videos one week ago ... )
Great topic Bill, I might be a bit biased but I am more leaning towards the German side, as the excellent handwork, quality, and incredible movements are the most attractive features in German watches. I think that Sinn might be one of the best value sports watches on the market. Glashütte Original might be one of the most underrated German brands, as the quality of their office watches is on par with JLC and their dress watches are as beautiful as A. Lange & Söhne but with the price of a Dornblüth and Sons :D Have a great Friday Bill.
Interesting discussion. After journeying through the Geneva landscape of Rolex, Tudor, etc., I took a turn north into Germany. There I discovered Damasko and Hanhart. May take a detour over to Sinn. In any case, I’ve never looked back into Switzerland. You just can’t beat the value proposition for the superb quality. Cheers, Bill!
@@watchartsci Yes it is. Bravo Bill, you are killing me how you know so much . I wear it from 2015 and there are no scratches on it. It is unbelievable.
Great piece Bill. Brave to do without delving to detail in each area. Hat's off. The transition after L&H was a "ouch moment" but loved it. Cartier c/f with a company from 2008, well .. Great stuff. May you keep up the good work 🙏
An interesting topic, Bill - both nations have quite marked differences of approach to their watches, both design and movement. Worth noting also that the Swiss are quite divided in approach between western French (think Longines, JLC, Breguet and the Geneva brands) and eastern German influence (IWC spings to mind). The Germans are quite (though less) divided between modern West (eg Sinn) and traditional East (Glashutte brands). Generally, I think the Swiss tend to a slightly move decorative style, the Germans more instrumental. Of course, these trends have been overridden by market forces and corporate identity somewhat. Eg, what is AP these days?! Personally, I think both nations make great watches - I think the German movements while plainer are more beautiful, their faces sometimes less so! So, I tend to the Jura brands and a Breguet would be my grail. German watches do tend to be very large as well - GO's Senator range for example are huge for dress pieces!
James, I like to think of Germans with a soft divide between Dresden (pure class) and Glashütte (mixed bag), but I think you're right about the East/West characters of Swiss watches. Prototypes would be eastern H. Moser (more German influence) and western, F.P. Journe (more French). Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci I have now! Thanks for the link! Lovely movements, but the design falls into that typical Glashutte dinner plate style! Not for me, but a pleasure as always to learn more about these less feted artisans. Keep Well!
Actually have the J.L.C.Geograghic but it's a Chinese version of it . Didn't realize that at first but surprisingly very well made considering and wouldn't have been able to afford the real deal but also didn't buy it thinking it was a copy either.
@@watchartsci that's what I got if it had J.L.C it be hard to tell the difference and the feel of the watch seems well done kind of blew me away and didn't expect the quality of it . I'm having alot of fun with it diffently.
Amazing video as always! Lange & Heyne when over vacheron , i just like the appearance of bridge and Diamond on the escarpment , vacheron has this VC 4400 caliber since 2008 when they first introduce American 1921.
I just checked, and you're right, Mohamed, it came out near the end of 2008. I know the 4400 was first introduced in the '21, but I thought it was later ... sheeeze! Time flies. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Good selection Bill. It is hard to decide which ones I like better. The Lang Heyne and this particular Lange 1 are exceptional. The VC has outstanding class and understatement. One thing you might argue that some German watches are lacking a continuous tradition that f.e. PP and especially VC have. But maybe that gives these German ones a special own history. Like the Lange 1, it is a symbol of economic restart after German unification to me.
Hannes, Swiss watch companies like VC just "appear" as they have a continuous tradition. Few have, and almost none has family still in the business. That's why I have always been impressed by the work of Rolf Lang and Marco Lang. Rolf grew up in East Germany under the Soviet system that would not allow a son to enter into his father's profession-Rolf's father and grandfather were watchmakers. So Rolf ended up rebuilding the bombed mechanical museum in Dresden where a rich German history was stored and was an influence in the works of H. Moser, Tutima, A. Lange, and his own watch company. See ( ruclips.net/video/AnQaN7-5bxk/видео.html ) Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
Jovan, their automatics and hand-wound ones are very affordable, using modified Citizen and Myota movements. Not much horological innovation, but they're not expensive either. Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci Bill, you should look into Damasko more. They are doing an amazing job giving a better built watch in the similar price range than Sinn. I think they are the best to describe as epitome of German philosophy of watchmaking(Pure functional). They are one of the best tool watches in the market. I think they would compliment well in your collection as a beater watch with your Seiko 5. Like the other comments said, German watches are over engineered and this one is included. Also, they are still delaying the release of their new in house movement. I think you might like them.
Though I’m fascinated by watching movements sometimes they’re really finished so that ADs can determine frauds and I seldom wear my watches inside out. ( Joking of course ) For me it’s really about the dial and case .
What?! You mean I shouldn't have been wearing my watches inside out, Bruce? 😉 Dial, hands, case and strap are all important ... but for me, it's the movement! Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
Swiss only. ! Holly Trinity + FP Journe + one Rolex !! Won’t support a Japanese Brand either , though great watches. Hitler wore a Lange! Great brand but don’t support it. Nice video mate !!
Why Swiss only? The Swiss where the equivalent of the Chinese of today, they made parts for the power houses in horolgy, who at that time where the French and British who priced themselves out of the market and the Swiss stepped in. So please drop the Swiss is superior rubbish.
C'mon Tim! If you read a bit of Swiss history, you'd find the Schweizerischer Vaterländischer Verband were active in WWII, fully in support of Hitler and his ideology. Swiss banks had no problem storing gold stolen from Jewish families by the SS, and the Swiss allowed trains loaded with Jews in cattle cars to travel from Italy to Germany and the murder camps. All of us deplore Hitler, and he still makes my skin crawl, but that would not prevent me from getting a brand of watch he happened to own at one time. (Check out the history of Hugo Boss suits too...) Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
The main attractiveness of German watches to me is their relative detachment with some exceptions (I.e, GO and Union Glashutte are owned by Swatch and Lange & Sohnes is owned by Richemont) from the large Swiss/French/South African controlled watch conglomerates (Swatch, LVMH and Richemont). There are some wonderful and vibrant German independents like Nomos, Sinn, Damasko, Dornbluth, Stowa, Laco, Hanhart, Henschel, etc. There is a mix among German producers of expensive watches (Moritz Grossman, Lange and Lang & Heyne) and high value affordable watches (Sinn, Damasko, Stowa, Hanhart and the reconstituted Junghans). German watches often provide an interesting alternative to Swiss watches in many categories and to Japanese watches in the $800 and up price range. Right now, I think that some of the great kick ass watches one can consider in the range of $850 to $3000 are German. Auf weidersein Herr Professor.
Howard, that was a clear and succinct cataloging of both the types and differences of the German and Swiss watches. Your depiction of "great kick ass watches" conjures images of a fierce youth on a skateboard with a baseball hat turned bill-to-the back zooming through the halls of horology-without a hall pass. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
¿Porque no? I like the Sea Project with the yellow dial, JAPD. While they have an ETA 2824-2, their prices are fair and you know what you're paying for. Take care y con cuidado, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci I like this one, very tool alike case, with hidden helium escape valve, I also like the bracelet, but out of stock. www.crepaswatches.es/styled/photos-4/index.html
Back in the day Surfer Dude, I used to surf the Santa Barbara coast ... from Ventura California Street to Rincon to Hammond's Reef to College Point (UCSB)... take care Bill
Some enthusiasts observe that Swiss dial designs generally feel "soft" and delicate - feminine is a word I've heard/read a few times - but are second to none in elegance and beauty. For watches with many subdials they do tend to look crowded.
German dials supposedly use a lot of hard angles and fonts, and minimalist layouts. However, they don't look boring - maybe sterile for some - but the resulting aesthetic works in its own unique way.
By the way, Germans seem hardwired to over-engineer. Whether it's designing a tank, a car, or a wristwatch, apparently they just can't help it. ::)
As a general gloss, Gilberto, you may have a point, but when you look at the works of Marco Lang and some of the A. Lange & Söhne pieces, the unparalleled beauty is in the movement ... not the gearing but the layout of the delicate bridges and gold chantons nesting the jewels... hard to beat for delicacy especially compared to the Mack truck like bulldozers that make up most of the Rolex and Omega watches. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
“I like all watches” 🤣🤣🤣 thanks for another video Bill!
Me too, Fernando! Never met a watch I really didn't like. Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
Hi Bill! At these levels both countries do superb watch, I couldn’t decide which is better or nicer. It remains a personal choice more than anything.
Very good topic & very good choices, this will leave me wondering for a long time🤔
All the best,
John
All of them have merit and character in one way or another I think, John. Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
They have more than caracter, these are some of the finest watches from my point of view.
See you tomorrow with dawn patrol?
Hi Bill,
The three-quarter plate is a key difference between Glashuette and Swiss watchmaking, it is the most obvious difference in movement construction.
The three-quarter plate is what holds the gear train and spring barrel, wich contains the mainspring, and while some Swiss watchmakers (such as Jaeger-LeCoultre) also use it, they tend to favour a bridge constructiondesign that offers aesthetical advantages and supports seperate mechanisms making it easier for the watchmaker to service the watch without having to disassemble it. A plate construction makes all the mechanisms sturdier!
Other differations include a swan neck-shaped steel spring used for fine regulation, the use of Cote de Glashuette decoration on the plates (wich are engraved freehand and wider than Cotes de Geneve), and the use of screw-mounted chatons on the three-quarter plate to hold the rubies put in place at friction points within the mechanism to reduce wear.
That latter practice not only requires a skilled hand to plsce the jewel within the chaton and then the chaton within the platewich is also very labour intensive as holes have to be drilled on the plate for each chaton and the chaton is held by two or three blued screws, an additional hand-made minute detail that requires expertise and time. Nothwithstaning this, it is awatchmaking tradition most Glashuette brands continue to this day, and is appreciated by watch lovers for enhancing the aesthetic appearance of a movement.
By the early 1900s, Glashuette watches were in such demand that owning one was considered a status symbol and watchmakers in other countries started putting the name of the town on their dials, prompting Glashuette-based brands to register the phrase Orginal Glashuette and put this on their dials to distinquish them.
I like the "no-quarter plate," O Bud, like the trigonal bridge in the Lang & Heyne Caliber VI. You're right, though, about the 3/4 bridge developed originally in Glashütte ... primarily for production purposes, but now so you can see more of the movement. Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
I don't usually go for busy watch dials, but the JLC Geographic is more subtle than most.
Love the VC Patrimony. Mine would have the date complication, and white gold. That's assuming I could afford one.😊
Hang in there Phil ... you'd look good in a Patrimony! Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
congrats on the Daniel Roth, i love both German and Swiss each is unique in their own way
Hey Al, I've had it for a while ... I've got to do a video about it...there's a story behind it! Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
Good morning Bill, have you noticed that the Glashuette Original "Senator Cosmopolite" (see the video at 08:00) is one rare example of "Daylight Saving Time" complication ? (I addressed this topic in the comments of one of your videos one week ago ... )
I did not notice that Maurizio! Thanks man! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
Nice comparison.
I like these series.
Glad you like them, Dinesh! Thanks man! Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
Nice Daniel Roth Dr. Bill ✌️
Thanks Doc! I forgot to do a video on it ... soon, though. Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
Great topic Bill, I might be a bit biased but I am more leaning towards the German side, as the excellent handwork, quality, and incredible movements are the most attractive features in German watches.
I think that Sinn might be one of the best value sports watches on the market. Glashütte Original might be one of the most underrated German brands, as the quality of their office watches is on par with JLC and their dress watches are as beautiful as A. Lange & Söhne but with the price of a Dornblüth and Sons :D
Have a great Friday Bill.
You leaning toward German watches Abdul? What a surprise!! I knew you'd find it fun! Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
Interesting discussion. After journeying through the Geneva landscape of Rolex, Tudor, etc., I took a turn north into Germany. There I discovered Damasko and Hanhart. May take a detour over to Sinn. In any case, I’ve never looked back into Switzerland. You just can’t beat the value proposition for the superb quality. Cheers, Bill!
The thing I like about watch collection is that there seems to always be another aspect of mechanical watches to learn. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
That Sinn is something I highly recommend to everybody . That steel is something extraordinary! And you can read off the time from 20 metres
Hey Alex, isn't that Sinn made from submarine steel? A tough little timepiece! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Yes it is. Bravo Bill, you are killing me how you know so much . I wear it from 2015 and there are no scratches on it. It is unbelievable.
Adding another comparison of Swiss and German moon phase watches from my collection: instagram.com/p/CG24BASHTAW/
That's an excellent comparison Stephen! Thanks man! Take care and stay safe, Bill 😷
Great piece Bill. Brave to do without delving to detail in each area. Hat's off. The transition after L&H was a "ouch moment" but loved it. Cartier c/f with a company from 2008, well .. Great stuff. May you keep up the good work 🙏
Many thanks, Al! Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
Bill, Can you cover a few more French watches if possible .. Another Great Video Kevin
Hi Kevin, I've covered Yema, what other French watches would be good to check out, Kevin? Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
An interesting topic, Bill - both nations have quite marked differences of approach to their watches, both design and movement. Worth noting also that the Swiss are quite divided in approach between western French (think Longines, JLC, Breguet and the Geneva brands) and eastern German influence (IWC spings to mind). The Germans are quite (though less) divided between modern West (eg Sinn) and traditional East (Glashutte brands). Generally, I think the Swiss tend to a slightly move decorative style, the Germans more instrumental. Of course, these trends have been overridden by market forces and corporate identity somewhat. Eg, what is AP these days?! Personally, I think both nations make great watches - I think the German movements while plainer are more beautiful, their faces sometimes less so! So, I tend to the Jura brands and a Breguet would be my grail. German watches do tend to be very large as well - GO's Senator range for example are huge for dress pieces!
James, I like to think of Germans with a soft divide between Dresden (pure class) and Glashütte (mixed bag), but I think you're right about the East/West characters of Swiss watches. Prototypes would be eastern H. Moser (more German influence) and western, F.P. Journe (more French). Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Ah yes, of course: Moser. Very interested to know more about the Dresden school. Weekend research sorted! Keep well!
Did you see this James? ruclips.net/video/AnQaN7-5bxk/видео.html ake care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci I have now! Thanks for the link! Lovely movements, but the design falls into that typical Glashutte dinner plate style! Not for me, but a pleasure as always to learn more about these less feted artisans. Keep Well!
Actually have the J.L.C.Geograghic but it's a Chinese version of it . Didn't realize that at first but surprisingly very well made considering and wouldn't have been able to afford the real deal but also didn't buy it thinking it was a copy either.
JLC made a version just for China? Or is it made in China with the same features as the Geographic, Mark? Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci that's what I got if it had J.L.C it be hard to tell the difference and the feel of the watch seems well done kind of blew me away and didn't expect the quality of it . I'm having alot of fun with it diffently.
Amazing video as always! Lange & Heyne when over vacheron , i just like the appearance of bridge and Diamond on the escarpment , vacheron has this VC 4400 caliber since 2008 when they first introduce American 1921.
I just checked, and you're right, Mohamed, it came out near the end of 2008. I know the 4400 was first introduced in the '21, but I thought it was later ... sheeeze! Time flies. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Good selection Bill. It is hard to decide which ones I like better. The Lang Heyne and this particular Lange 1 are exceptional. The VC has outstanding class and understatement. One thing you might argue that some German watches are lacking a continuous tradition that f.e. PP and especially VC have. But maybe that gives these German ones a special own history. Like the Lange 1, it is a symbol of economic restart after German unification to me.
Hannes, Swiss watch companies like VC just "appear" as they have a continuous tradition. Few have, and almost none has family still in the business. That's why I have always been impressed by the work of Rolf Lang and Marco Lang. Rolf grew up in East Germany under the Soviet system that would not allow a son to enter into his father's profession-Rolf's father and grandfather were watchmakers. So Rolf ended up rebuilding the bombed mechanical museum in Dresden where a rich German history was stored and was an influence in the works of H. Moser, Tutima, A. Lange, and his own watch company. See ( ruclips.net/video/AnQaN7-5bxk/видео.html ) Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
I pick all German watches except Sinn among these matchups.
Hi Leya, ironically, you chose to omit the only German watch in the batch with a Swiss movement! Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci I swear I didn't notice that when I voted 😅
Great video and excellent choices as always Bill, thanks!
Hey Bruce, what would a comparable Rolex type watch be in a German collection? Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
Hi,what is your opinion about Graf Zeppelin watches?
Jovan, their automatics and hand-wound ones are very affordable, using modified Citizen and Myota movements. Not much horological innovation, but they're not expensive either. Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
@@watchartsci tnx
I appreciate German watch making more and more. Specially, Lang and Heyne.
Nowshed, Marco Lang is coming out with his new brand watches very soon. Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
Great video with useful information and not the usual " I can't find a Rolex in the AD."
😂 That's true Steve ... finding Rolexs is way beyond my pay-grade.😉 Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
Most of the German watches you put in comparison seems better than the Swiss.
That's quite possible Tippy, but it wasn't intentional. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Bill, you should look into Damasko more. They are doing an amazing job giving a better built watch in the similar price range than Sinn. I think they are the best to describe as epitome of German philosophy of watchmaking(Pure functional).
They are one of the best tool watches in the market. I think they would compliment well in your collection as a beater watch with your Seiko 5. Like the other comments said, German watches are over engineered and this one is included.
Also, they are still delaying the release of their new in house movement. I think you might like them.
Though I’m fascinated by watching movements sometimes they’re really finished so that ADs can determine frauds and I seldom wear my watches inside out. ( Joking of course ) For me it’s really about the dial and case .
What?! You mean I shouldn't have been wearing my watches inside out, Bruce? 😉 Dial, hands, case and strap are all important ... but for me, it's the movement! Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
Swiss only. ! Holly Trinity + FP Journe + one Rolex !! Won’t support a Japanese Brand either , though great watches.
Hitler wore a Lange! Great brand but don’t support it.
Nice video mate !!
Why Swiss only? The Swiss where the equivalent of the Chinese of today, they made parts for the power houses in horolgy, who at that time where the French and British who priced themselves out of the market and the Swiss stepped in. So please drop the Swiss is superior rubbish.
C'mon Tim! If you read a bit of Swiss history, you'd find the Schweizerischer Vaterländischer Verband were active in WWII, fully in support of Hitler and his ideology. Swiss banks had no problem storing gold stolen from Jewish families by the SS, and the Swiss allowed trains loaded with Jews in cattle cars to travel from Italy to Germany and the murder camps. All of us deplore Hitler, and he still makes my skin crawl, but that would not prevent me from getting a brand of watch he happened to own at one time. (Check out the history of Hugo Boss suits too...) Take care and stay safe, Bill😷
The main attractiveness of German watches to me is their relative detachment with some exceptions (I.e, GO and Union Glashutte are owned by Swatch and Lange & Sohnes is owned by Richemont) from the large Swiss/French/South African controlled watch conglomerates (Swatch, LVMH and Richemont). There are some wonderful and vibrant German independents like Nomos, Sinn, Damasko, Dornbluth, Stowa, Laco, Hanhart, Henschel, etc. There is a mix among German producers of expensive watches (Moritz Grossman, Lange and Lang & Heyne) and high value affordable watches (Sinn, Damasko, Stowa, Hanhart and the reconstituted Junghans). German watches often provide an interesting alternative to Swiss watches in many categories and to Japanese watches in the $800 and up price range. Right now, I think that some of the great kick ass watches one can consider in the range of $850 to $3000 are German. Auf weidersein Herr Professor.
Howard, that was a clear and succinct cataloging of both the types and differences of the German and Swiss watches. Your depiction of "great kick ass watches" conjures images of a fierce youth on a skateboard with a baseball hat turned bill-to-the back zooming through the halls of horology-without a hall pass. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷
I prefer Spanish watches, especially if they are from Zaragoza, like my mom, who I love 😄. (Crepas watches).
¿Porque no? I like the Sea Project with the yellow dial, JAPD. While they have an ETA 2824-2, their prices are fair and you know what you're paying for. Take care y con cuidado, Bill 😷
@@watchartsci Very good Spanish!!! 😄👍😎.
@@watchartsci I like this one, very tool alike case, with hidden helium escape valve, I also like the bracelet, but out of stock.
www.crepaswatches.es/styled/photos-4/index.html
Back in the day Surfer Dude, I used to surf the Santa Barbara coast ... from Ventura California Street to Rincon to Hammond's Reef to College Point (UCSB)... take care Bill
:)
H-V 😉 Take care and be safe, Bill 😷